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Why being English is a bad sign – politicalbetting.com

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    kle4 said:

    According to Curtice’s projections, this would result in Labour returning 28 MPs, up from its cohort of two before parliament was dissolved, while the SNP would have 18, the Conservatives six and the Lib Dems five.

    Not perfect, but I'd take it (and so would all the unionist parties I imagine).
    I could live with that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Short of a no-ball...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Why do the South Africans always choke in world cup cricket?

    Nothing will ever beat getting knocked out in 2003 because they couldn't read the Duckworth Lewis scoresheet properly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    That could be a rather significant wide.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,152
    edited June 29

    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    Indeed, and the protest vote to the left of Labour is a better target for the Green Party in any case.

    If matters play out as suggested in the polls then almost the entire Liberal Democrats Parliamentary party will represent classically Tory, wealthier suburban and rural seats, in which the Conservatives remain the second party. They'll have dozens of newly-minted MPs representing relatively well-heeled, small-c conservative people.

    The solution to holding those areas probably lies, in crude terms, in exploiting the likely post-election hard right tantrum by the Conservative Party membership to recast the Liberal Democrats as a soft centre-right party, wet Tories without all the Thatcherite and Nasty Party baggage, i.e. rehabilitating the Orange Book tendency, and stop maintaining any fantasies about challenging Labour for the support of the metropolitan left. Now, whether the Liberal Democrat membership is ready to tolerate such a thing, that's the question.
    The LibDems are also likely to be representing seats most hurt by Labour's tax rises. Going to be quite some balancing act in the next Parliament to represent their voters whilst calling for higher taxes than Labour are implementing, to increase services above the level Labour manages.
    That I think is very fair comment.

    Perhaps Ed Davey needs to do a PR stunt involving juggling?

    Personally, having watched him win pretty much full sets of straight As through his school years and a large succession of prizes plus school captain, whilst also doing all the stuff at home that we have found out of which I did not know the detail, I wouldn't suggest at this point that it is beyond his abilities.

    It's probably about how good his actual political skills are as party leader with a decent population of MPs, which I think needs skills I have not seen him have to show before.

    I think the single most important adviser / strategist may well be Mark Pack, though others here may know other names.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    IanB2 said:

    As I was saying.

    Porca miseria.

    The Swiss playing like that will run rings round England, if we make it that far.

    The final disappointment will likely come before the election (i.e tomorrow) rather than straight after it. Sir Keir is a lucky general.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Game over, India the winners.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    South Africa should have won that. Dismal last four overs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Why do the South Africans always choke in world cup cricket?

    Nothing will ever beat getting knocked out in 2003 because they couldn't read the Duckworth Lewis scoresheet properly.

    RIP Frank Duckworth https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2024/06/28/frank-duckworth-cricket-duckworth-lewis-method-obituary/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    My initial thought was that India's incredible bowling attack would deliver. I fully admit that I wobbled. This tournament has shown this is not simply a batsman's game.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
     

    Unionists are far more likely to vote for a certain party not because they support it but because it is the one most likely to defeat the SNP where they are. Analysis by Nortstat, which acquired the research panel Panelbase, suggests almost half (49 per cent) of those who plan to vote tactically are doing so to defeat the SNP.

    Of the rest who are voting tactically, 39 per cent are doing so in an attempt to unseat the Conservatives.

    I voted tactically last time. But not this time
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Sandpit said:

    Why do the South Africans always choke in world cup cricket?

    Nothing will ever beat getting knocked out in 2003 because they couldn't read the Duckworth Lewis scoresheet properly.

    RIP Frank Duckworth https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2024/06/28/frank-duckworth-cricket-duckworth-lewis-method-obituary/
    Oh no.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Switzerland outclass the Italians to win 2-0.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    ydoethur said:

    South Africa should have won that. Dismal last four overs.

    Long live the chokers.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Oh hello.

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph


    📈Lowest Labour vote share since January 2022

    🌹Lab 38 (-4)
    🌳Con 21 (=)
    ➡️Reform 14 (=)
    🔶LD 11 (+1)
    🌍Green 6 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 7 (+1)

    2,092 UK adults

    26-28 June (chg from 21-24 June)


    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1807104242856964559

    Though still gives Labour 455, Tories 75, LDs 70, SNP 18, Reform 6 and Green 3
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=21&LAB=38&LIB=11&Reform=14&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=14&SCOTLAB=35&SCOTLIB=7.7&SCOTReform=5&SCOTGreen=2.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Are you slightly sceptical about these seat calculators? I am a bit.
    I agree. Particularly as regards the Tories and the LibDems. After a numer of successive polls showing the Orange team in second place, on this occasion they are just behind the Tories. My gut feeling is that on these levels of support, I would feel more comfortable to see the Tories rather further ahead, i.e. leading by around 20-25 seats instead of by only 5 seats
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562

    Switzerland outclass the Italians to win 2-0.

    Italy go home before England.

    Yay. Little victories....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    South Africa should have won that. Dismal last four overs.

    Long live the chokers.
    They saved me from a month of being nice to the Welsh.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562
    MattW said:

    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    Indeed, and the protest vote to the left of Labour is a better target for the Green Party in any case.

    If matters play out as suggested in the polls then almost the entire Liberal Democrats Parliamentary party will represent classically Tory, wealthier suburban and rural seats, in which the Conservatives remain the second party. They'll have dozens of newly-minted MPs representing relatively well-heeled, small-c conservative people.

    The solution to holding those areas probably lies, in crude terms, in exploiting the likely post-election hard right tantrum by the Conservative Party membership to recast the Liberal Democrats as a soft centre-right party, wet Tories without all the Thatcherite and Nasty Party baggage, i.e. rehabilitating the Orange Book tendency, and stop maintaining any fantasies about challenging Labour for the support of the metropolitan left. Now, whether the Liberal Democrat membership is ready to tolerate such a thing, that's the question.
    The LibDems are also likely to be representing seats most hurt by Labour's tax rises. Going to be quite some balancing act in the next Parliament to represent their voters whilst calling for higher taxes than Labour are implementing, to increase services above the level Labour manages.
    That I think is very fair comment.

    Perhaps Ed Davey needs to do a PR stunt involving juggling?

    Personally, having watched him win pretty much full sets of straight As through his school years and a large succession of prizes plus school captain, whilst also doing all the stuff at home that we have found out of which I did not know the detail, I wouldn't suggest at this point that it is beyond his abilities.

    It's probably about how good his actual political skills are as party leader with a decent population of MPs, which I think needs skills I have not seen him have to show before.

    I think the single most important adviser / strategist may well be Mark Pack, though others here may know other names.
    More likely, we will see him riding two seaside donkeys, going in different directions...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    edited June 29

    MattW said:

    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    Indeed, and the protest vote to the left of Labour is a better target for the Green Party in any case.

    If matters play out as suggested in the polls then almost the entire Liberal Democrats Parliamentary party will represent classically Tory, wealthier suburban and rural seats, in which the Conservatives remain the second party. They'll have dozens of newly-minted MPs representing relatively well-heeled, small-c conservative people.

    The solution to holding those areas probably lies, in crude terms, in exploiting the likely post-election hard right tantrum by the Conservative Party membership to recast the Liberal Democrats as a soft centre-right party, wet Tories without all the Thatcherite and Nasty Party baggage, i.e. rehabilitating the Orange Book tendency, and stop maintaining any fantasies about challenging Labour for the support of the metropolitan left. Now, whether the Liberal Democrat membership is ready to tolerate such a thing, that's the question.
    The LibDems are also likely to be representing seats most hurt by Labour's tax rises. Going to be quite some balancing act in the next Parliament to represent their voters whilst calling for higher taxes than Labour are implementing, to increase services above the level Labour manages.
    That I think is very fair comment.

    Perhaps Ed Davey needs to do a PR stunt involving juggling?

    Personally, having watched him win pretty much full sets of straight As through his school years and a large succession of prizes plus school captain, whilst also doing all the stuff at home that we have found out of which I did not know the detail, I wouldn't suggest at this point that it is beyond his abilities.

    It's probably about how good his actual political skills are as party leader with a decent population of MPs, which I think needs skills I have not seen him have to show before.

    I think the single most important adviser / strategist may well be Mark Pack, though others here may know other names.
    More likely, we will see him riding two seaside donkeys, going in different directions...
    Or like Buridan's ass transfixed equidistantly

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,152
    edited June 29
    MattW said:

    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    Indeed, and the protest vote to the left of Labour is a better target for the Green Party in any case.

    If matters play out as suggested in the polls then almost the entire Liberal Democrats Parliamentary party will represent classically Tory, wealthier suburban and rural seats, in which the Conservatives remain the second party. They'll have dozens of newly-minted MPs representing relatively well-heeled, small-c conservative people.

    The solution to holding those areas probably lies, in crude terms, in exploiting the likely post-election hard right tantrum by the Conservative Party membership to recast the Liberal Democrats as a soft centre-right party, wet Tories without all the Thatcherite and Nasty Party baggage, i.e. rehabilitating the Orange Book tendency, and stop maintaining any fantasies about challenging Labour for the support of the metropolitan left. Now, whether the Liberal Democrat membership is ready to tolerate such a thing, that's the question.
    The LibDems are also likely to be representing seats most hurt by Labour's tax rises. Going to be quite some balancing act in the next Parliament to represent their voters whilst calling for higher taxes than Labour are implementing, to increase services above the level Labour manages.
    That I think is very fair comment.

    Perhaps Ed Davey needs to do a PR stunt involving juggling?

    Personally, having watched him win pretty much full sets of straight As through his school years and a large succession of prizes plus school captain, whilst also doing all the stuff at home that we have found out of which I did not know the detail, I wouldn't suggest at this point that it is beyond his abilities.

    It's probably about how good his actual political skills are as party leader with a decent population of MPs, which I think needs skills I have not seen him have to show before.

    I think the single most important adviser / strategist may well be Mark Pack, though others here may know other names.
    Reflecting further, I would love to see Jonathon Calder in the House of Lords as Lord Bonkers - probably a folorn hope, and I will have to keep remembering to read his blog.

    https://liberalengland.blogspot.com/
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,943
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
    "At least they understand our language. They're just not willing to speak to us in it."
    "Who knew they were French?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yz5rx2lHNE
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Lewis Goodall
    @lewis_goodall
    ·
    6h
    Publicly at least, Democrats have sunk into their own sea of unreality in the last 24 hours, as deep as some Republicans'. The idea that that was just an off-beat debate performance (a la Obama's first in 2012, or even Reagan's first in 84) is risible.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1807010250521714977
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    geoffw said:

     

    Unionists are far more likely to vote for a certain party not because they support it but because it is the one most likely to defeat the SNP where they are. Analysis by Nortstat, which acquired the research panel Panelbase, suggests almost half (49 per cent) of those who plan to vote tactically are doing so to defeat the SNP.

    Of the rest who are voting tactically, 39 per cent are doing so in an attempt to unseat the Conservatives.

    I voted tactically last time. But not this time
    My MIL voted Labour today in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry. We will vote Tory in Angus and the Perthshire Glens. My daughter will vote Lib Dem in Edinburgh SW. My other daughter will probably vote Tory in Perth and North Perthshire. It is all about beating the SNP. That is what Scottish politics is about, sadly.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    Opinium

    LAB 40
    CON 20
    REF 17
    LIB DEM 13
    GREEN 3

    Opinium Baxtered

    LAB 466
    LIB DEM 76
    CON 57
    REF 7
    GREEN 3
    SNP 18

    No tactical voting settings applied

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    DavidL said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Unionists are far more likely to vote for a certain party not because they support it but because it is the one most likely to defeat the SNP where they are. Analysis by Nortstat, which acquired the research panel Panelbase, suggests almost half (49 per cent) of those who plan to vote tactically are doing so to defeat the SNP.

    Of the rest who are voting tactically, 39 per cent are doing so in an attempt to unseat the Conservatives.

    I voted tactically last time. But not this time
    My MIL voted Labour today in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry. We will vote Tory in Angus and the Perthshire Glens. My daughter will vote Lib Dem in Edinburgh SW. My other daughter will probably vote Tory in Perth and North Perthshire. It is all about beating the SNP. That is what Scottish politics is about, sadly.
    I have the luxury of a labour MP, so am pleased to express free and meaningless support for the Cons

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
    Nope, they spoke in German when the Beeb interviewed some of their players earlier today.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056


    Who talks about what.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
    Nope, they spoke in German when the Beeb interviewed some of their players earlier today.
    They can probably do any of four languages fluently

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Virat Kohli just might be my favourite cricketer of all time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    Our relations with external potentially antagonistic regimes are interesting. China and Russia were both potentially antagonistic states in the mid-1990s; Russia's power was waning, whilst China's power was growing. How much do you cosy up to them in an attempt to bring them into the fold (and do your own economy good...), and how much do you berate them for poor behaviour? And at what point do you cry "enough is enough!"

    In the case of Russia, we bent over backwards to help them in the 1990s - yet the claims of many pro-Russian shills is that we 'rubbed their noses' in their defeat and didn't really help them. IMV we should have been stronger after the Georgia invasion in 2008, let alone 2014 or Salisbury.

    But China? Perhaps - and I say this with my fingers very crossed - our economies are so intertwined that Xi realises that a war might cripple his country. But I fear people like Xi and Putin value their place in history more highly than the short- or medium-term health of their economy or people.

    And this leads to another potential giant: India. A country that has the resources and people to be a superpower - sometimes (from my view) despite itself. We have a complex relationship with China, to put it mildly, but what can we do to find a future that's good for both us and them?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    That's assuming that Starmer's Labour Party will be a party of the left.
    Starmer seems to be promising a more efficient version of the Tories.
  • Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 29

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    South Africa should have won that. Dismal last four overs.

    Long live the chokers.
    They saved me from a month of being nice to the Welsh.
    No they didn't. You said 'for the rest of the month,' which ends tomorrow at midnight.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Interesting that as the election has approached, YouGov now better for the Tories than Opinium having long been their worst pollster. I'm thinking a 15 to 17 point margin now looks quite likely if we allow for a smidgen of shy Tory/buckle on the day and depending on vote efficiency I believe the Tories will get between 95 and 175 seats, but I'm going to await the final MRPs before committing to a tighter range
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    DavidL said:

    Virat Kohli just might be my favourite cricketer of all time.

    I reckon you just might be his favourite commentator of all time after that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    The campaign of endless disaster that just keeps on giving...



    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    59m
    Exclusive: The Tories' warning of a Labour "supermajority" has backfired, a new poll has revealed.

    26% of voters say it makes them more likely to vote for Keir Starmer's party, compared to just 13% who will now back the Conservatives.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    According to Curtice’s projections, this would result in Labour returning 28 MPs, up from its cohort of two before parliament was dissolved, while the SNP would have 18, the Conservatives six and the Lib Dems five.

    Curtice is a God.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,515
    DavidL said:

    Oh hello.

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph


    📈Lowest Labour vote share since January 2022

    🌹Lab 38 (-4)
    🌳Con 21 (=)
    ➡️Reform 14 (=)
    🔶LD 11 (+1)
    🌍Green 6 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 7 (+1)

    2,092 UK adults

    26-28 June (chg from 21-24 June)


    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1807104242856964559

    Who are other at 7%?

    Candidates for Gaza East?
    It says UK, so Northern Ireland parties plus Plaid Cymru plus Buckethead.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    DavidL said:

    Oh hello.

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph


    📈Lowest Labour vote share since January 2022

    🌹Lab 38 (-4)
    🌳Con 21 (=)
    ➡️Reform 14 (=)
    🔶LD 11 (+1)
    🌍Green 6 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 7 (+1)

    2,092 UK adults

    26-28 June (chg from 21-24 June)


    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1807104242856964559

    Who are other at 7%?

    Candidates for Gaza East?
    It says UK, so Northern Ireland parties plus Plaid Cymru plus Buckethead.
    That surely doesn't amount to 7% unless there is a huge surge for Buckethead. NI is just over 2%, PC more like 1%. Its odd but I do think that Labour might have leaked some pro Palestinians.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562

    The campaign of endless disaster that just keeps on giving...



    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    59m
    Exclusive: The Tories' warning of a Labour "supermajority" has backfired, a new poll has revealed.

    26% of voters say it makes them more likely to vote for Keir Starmer's party, compared to just 13% who will now back the Conservatives.

    That needs some clarification. If the 26% were 9/10 Labour moving to 10/10, makes damn all difference. Whereas 13% moving towards the Tories at whatever level could be important.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,861

    The campaign of endless disaster that just keeps on giving...



    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    59m
    Exclusive: The Tories' warning of a Labour "supermajority" has backfired, a new poll has revealed.

    26% of voters say it makes them more likely to vote for Keir Starmer's party, compared to just 13% who will now back the Conservatives.

    People like to be on the winning side?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    According to Curtice’s projections, this would result in Labour returning 28 MPs, up from its cohort of two before parliament was dissolved, while the SNP would have 18, the Conservatives six and the Lib Dems five.

    Tories holding onto their 6 seats, including AN&ME I assume.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Nunu5 said:
    Savanta seem to constantly find lots of others which seems strange . I would think Reform will drop a few points and Farages Trumpian histrionics isn’t going to help them .

    Problem for the Tories is the vast majority of postal votes are in which is likely to make up approx 20% of all valid votes cast.

    Opinium is a pretty good poll for Labour given its past history as it was one of the friendlier ones for the Tories .
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    It doesn’t work like that, which you know.

    I mean Lab + Lib Dem + Green is 57%

    Just pointless and yet more self-delusion from the Party which utterly blew it during the last 5 years.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    The campaign of endless disaster that just keeps on giving...



    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    59m
    Exclusive: The Tories' warning of a Labour "supermajority" has backfired, a new poll has revealed.

    26% of voters say it makes them more likely to vote for Keir Starmer's party, compared to just 13% who will now back the Conservatives.

    Hard not to laugh...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh hello.

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph


    📈Lowest Labour vote share since January 2022

    🌹Lab 38 (-4)
    🌳Con 21 (=)
    ➡️Reform 14 (=)
    🔶LD 11 (+1)
    🌍Green 6 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 7 (+1)

    2,092 UK adults

    26-28 June (chg from 21-24 June)


    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1807104242856964559

    Who are other at 7%?

    Candidates for Gaza East?
    It says UK, so Northern Ireland parties plus Plaid Cymru plus Buckethead.
    That surely doesn't amount to 7% unless there is a huge surge for Buckethead. NI is just over 2%, PC more like 1%. Its odd but I do think that Labour might have leaked some pro Palestinians.
    Well, if Glasto is anything to go by, the "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" set are sporting a sea of Palestinian flags. Not even seen the Forest flag, that has been visible at the front of the crowd for a couple of decdes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    In the end Rishi just wasn't up to it...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    The Greens have finally leafletted me, so just Tories and the Racist Fun Brigade that haven't bothered
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    With an innovative circular formation ready for the word "fire".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    I have decided to test @another_richard’s theory that I’m just seeing the nice side of Brittany

    So I chose a town basically at random. I saw a flat for one night - very cheap. An hour away. In a town I’ve never heard of. I saw a photo of a river. Seemed ok

    Cheapness of apartment - £60 for 1 night for a whole apartment - would normally indicate a bit of a dump

    It is not a dump. The centre is stunning. No really. I’m sitting on an inhabited bridge - its houses and bars stand over a rushing river. There are streets of 19th century beauty and streets of 15-17th century charm

    There is evidence of economic distress - a few closed shops. This is not a posh town. It’s quite rough - a double g&t in this over-the-river bar is €8. Everyone is smoking and shouting

    But wow. Landerneau. Who knew? Not I

    https://www.brittanytourism.com/destinations/the-10-destinations/brest-terres-oceanes/landerneau/
  • MattW said:

    pigeon said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Chris said:



    tlg86 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW:

    A fun bet for election night has to be LibDem share vs Reform share. What's the PB consensus? Reform +1?

    Oh probably Reform +4 (as in 4 over LDs)

    It's odd that the LDs, the biggest campaigners for electoral reform, relatively benefit so grandly from the lack of reform.

    I really dislike the LDs as they currently are. They should be my obvious alternative to a Tory vote, but everything about them is just wrong.

    All my voting life, the Lib Dems have been to the left of Labour, which makes them gaining from the Tories in the shires odd. But perception is everything and they are still seen as being the middle party.
    Does your voting life not include the coalition period and Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party?
    Okay, fair point on Corbyn! But as Tony Blair said, if you run three general election campaigns to the left of Labour and end up in coalition with the Tories, you have something of a problem.
    To be fair, Nick Clegg was not to the left of Brown and much closer to Cameron.

    Charles Kennedy was to the left of Labour, but Clegg wasn't.

    It'll be interesting if the Lib Dems do have a big increase in MPs just what their candidate selection has been like. Will they have some good fresh blood and are they truly liberals?

    The Lib Dems could, just could, have a narrow window of opportunity to replace the Tories but only if they embrace being a liberal party of the centre-right (which is after all economic liberalism).
    If they become the opposition, they'll oppose from the left.
    If they do, they'll fade away again and miss their opportunity.

    The country doesn't have the space for two large parties of the left.
    Indeed, and the protest vote to the left of Labour is a better target for the Green Party in any case.

    If matters play out as suggested in the polls then almost the entire Liberal Democrats Parliamentary party will represent classically Tory, wealthier suburban and rural seats, in which the Conservatives remain the second party. They'll have dozens of newly-minted MPs representing relatively well-heeled, small-c conservative people.

    The solution to holding those areas probably lies, in crude terms, in exploiting the likely post-election hard right tantrum by the Conservative Party membership to recast the Liberal Democrats as a soft centre-right party, wet Tories without all the Thatcherite and Nasty Party baggage, i.e. rehabilitating the Orange Book tendency, and stop maintaining any fantasies about challenging Labour for the support of the metropolitan left. Now, whether the Liberal Democrat membership is ready to tolerate such a thing, that's the question.
    The LibDems are also likely to be representing seats most hurt by Labour's tax rises. Going to be quite some balancing act in the next Parliament to represent their voters whilst calling for higher taxes than Labour are implementing, to increase services above the level Labour manages.
    That I think is very fair comment.

    Perhaps Ed Davey needs to do a PR stunt involving juggling?

    Personally, having watched him win pretty much full sets of straight As through his school years and a large succession of prizes plus school captain, whilst also doing all the stuff at home that we have found out of which I did not know the detail, I wouldn't suggest at this point that it is beyond his abilities.

    It's probably about how good his actual political skills are as party leader with a decent population of MPs, which I think needs skills I have not seen him have to show before.

    I think the single most important adviser / strategist may well be Mark Pack, though others here may know other names.
    He did juggling in Edinburgh today. Plus plate spinning and a bit of hula hoop.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh hello.

    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph


    📈Lowest Labour vote share since January 2022

    🌹Lab 38 (-4)
    🌳Con 21 (=)
    ➡️Reform 14 (=)
    🔶LD 11 (+1)
    🌍Green 6 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
    ⬜️Other 7 (+1)

    2,092 UK adults

    26-28 June (chg from 21-24 June)


    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1807104242856964559

    Who are other at 7%?

    Candidates for Gaza East?
    It says UK, so Northern Ireland parties plus Plaid Cymru plus Buckethead.
    That surely doesn't amount to 7% unless there is a huge surge for Buckethead. NI is just over 2%, PC more like 1%. Its odd but I do think that Labour might have leaked some pro Palestinians.
    Well, if Glasto is anything to go by, the "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" set are sporting a sea of Palestinian flags. Not even seen the Forest flag, that has been visible at the front of the crowd for a couple of decdes.
    However, a ton of those will be voting Green. This is true for both the studenty left vote and the Islamic interest vote. And to me it is why the Greens are remaining on figures more like 6% than 3%. However, apart from them, there will be only a few impactful Islamic-interest independents and Galloway candidates. These big numbers from Savanta may have something to do with the UK sample, intention to vote in NI, and what have you. No idea, I'm afraid.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Saw my first RefUK posters today

    In the garden of an ex-colleague

    He was a twat even then
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
    You think CON are done for?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Scott_xP said:

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
    And Truss.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    edited June 29
    Scott_xP said:

    Saw my first RefUK posters today

    In the garden of an ex-colleague

    He was a twat even then

    My next door neighbour's got a Labour poster in her window...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562
    Scott_xP said:

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
    Not sure Bozo will ever be truly happy again. He blew it. And he knows it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,562
    GIN1138 said:

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
    You think CON are done for?
    I think they will get a gubbing on Thursday.

    But talk of the death of the most successful political party of the past couple of decades is seriously overdone. And will probably appear comical within the year.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    I have decided to test @another_richard’s theory that I’m just seeing the nice side of Brittany

    So I chose a town basically at random. I saw a flat for one night - very cheap. An hour away. In a town I’ve never heard of. I saw a photo of a river. Seemed ok

    Cheapness of apartment - £60 for 1 night for a whole apartment - would normally indicate a bit of a dump

    It is not a dump. The centre is stunning. No really. I’m sitting on an inhabited bridge - its houses and bars stand over a rushing river. There are streets of 19th century beauty and streets of 15-17th century charm

    There is evidence of economic distress - a few closed shops. This is not a posh town. It’s quite rough - a double g&t in this over-the-river bar is €8. Everyone is smoking and shouting

    But wow. Landerneau. Who knew? Not I

    https://www.brittanytourism.com/destinations/the-10-destinations/brest-terres-oceanes/landerneau/

    Yes, bit of an outlier though if it has the oldest inhabited bridge in Europe. On the Cornwall Cornouaille analogy I would guess Brittany has its Redruths and Callingtons and St Austells.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 29
    David Lammy will have his hands full from the get-go dealing with the Putin/Ukraine situation. It'll be interesting to see how he does in that role.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    But they don’t match LLG. The experimentation with minor parties is happening on both sides.

    This poll is LLG 57, RefCon 37. That’s precisely in line with bloc totals over the last several months. The bloc is 20% ahead.
  • Wonder which one of the following someone will claim I am tomorrow:
    A CCHQ agitpropper.
    A kremlin troll.
    The Kitchen Cabinet.
    Mister Ed.

    Out of interest, who were Mr Ed and the kitchen cabinet? I don't remember them being around when I stopped posting in 2016?

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    I can’t see post election how a Tory Reform merger could come about without a big internal drama.

    I’d expect the Tory party to split with MPs from the more centre of the party either resigning the whip or joining the Lib Dems.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 29
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    The Daily Mail tactical voting guide is like a far right wank dream

    I suspect most people will use it in reverse
    Leon said:

    Coming to Brittany you realise what a feat the Welsh have achieved - keeping Welsh alive. It is easy to find people naturally speaking Welsh - thee are entire towns where it is the main language. You walk into bars and shops - they speak Welsh

    When I first arrived in Brittany I asked guides where I could find native speakers. They were all all quite furtive - er, try a market, maybe the islands; dunno

    Now I realise that they did not want to disappoint me. But the truth is Breton has vanished

    Every time a civilising influence arrived they dispersed into the hills
    In that respect the Welsh are very much like the Kogi of Colombia

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-day-i-met-a-sun-priest/
    That's quite an enjoyable article. They should get the writer to write for their sister publication and it might be on the way to becoming readable again
    If I ever meet my stalker I shall hand on your appreciation
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    nico679 said:

    I can’t see post election how a Tory Reform merger could come about without a big internal drama.

    I’d expect the Tory party to split with MPs from the more centre of the party either resigning the whip or joining the Lib Dems.



    Watching the Tories and Reform over the next few years is going to be the most entertaining spectacle imaginable.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989
    edited June 29
    Andy_JS said:

    David Lammy is going to have his hands full from the get-go dealing with the Putin/Ukraine situation. It'll be interesting to see how he does in that role.

    It won’t happen, but in Starmer genie terms, it’s possible Keir’s first international appointment could be the Euros final, with England winning against Spain.

    I know that’s not directly related to Lammy, but it’s international affairs.
  • Scott_xP said:

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
    Not sure Bozo will ever be truly happy again. He blew it. And he knows it.
    The 2020s looked as if they belonged to him. It's incomprehensible really.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    GIN1138 said:

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
    You think CON are done for?
    I think they will get a gubbing on Thursday.

    But talk of the death of the most successful political party of the past couple of decades is seriously overdone. And will probably appear comical within the year.
    Past couple of centuries surely?

    Fallacy in there, however. Do you also treat rumours of the recent death of our longest reigning and best loved monarch with a pinch of salt?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    TimS said:

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    But they don’t match LLG. The experimentation with minor parties is happening on both sides.

    This poll is LLG 57, RefCon 37. That’s precisely in line with bloc totals over the last several months. The bloc is 20% ahead.
    This is the election where nothing has happened but trivia.

    The polls haven't budged. People made up their minds long ago.

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,943
    nico679 said:

    I can’t see post election how a Tory Reform merger could come about without a big internal drama.

    I’d expect the Tory party to split with MPs from the more centre of the party either resigning the whip or joining the Lib Dems.



    Indeed. Especially after Farage's Putinism, and the racism expose.

    I imagine you'd see a good few Con MPs defecting to the Lib Dems, or starting their own Change UK. So after a merger, you would probably have less Con MPs than you would before, unless Reform do really, really well.

    Same for local councillors and activists at a grass roots level. On another day, I'd be happy to campaign for a pro-business, socially liberally inclined Conservative party that's a big tent. I wouldn't be caught dead sharing a tent with Farage and his basket of deplorables.

    It may well be that Faragist populism is the future of the right wing, but you can count me out of it, and I suspect a lot of other liberal right wingers too.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Scott_xP said:

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
    Not sure Bozo will ever be truly happy again. He blew it. And he knows it.
    The 2020s looked as if they belonged to him. It's incomprehensible really.
    And he blew it so a handful of spotty spads could have a bottle of lukewarm NZ Chardonnay.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    The Daily Mail tactical voting guide is like a far right wank dream

    I suspect most people will use it in reverse
    Leon said:

    Coming to Brittany you realise what a feat the Welsh have achieved - keeping Welsh alive. It is easy to find people naturally speaking Welsh - thee are entire towns where it is the main language. You walk into bars and shops - they speak Welsh

    When I first arrived in Brittany I asked guides where I could find native speakers. They were all all quite furtive - er, try a market, maybe the islands; dunno

    Now I realise that they did not want to disappoint me. But the truth is Breton has vanished

    Every time a civilising influence arrived they dispersed into the hills
    In that respect the Welsh are very much like the Kogi of Colombia

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-day-i-met-a-sun-priest/
    That's quite an enjoyable article. They should get the writer to write for their sister publication and it might be on the way to becoming readable again
    If I ever meet my stalker I shall hand on your appreciation
    I briefly had a stalker last year. It was unnerving.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 29
    Professor Anthony Seldon: Hard to think of a period of Tory domination that has achieved less


    Sir Anthony Seldon is our next guest on Politics Hub With Ali Fortescue.
    He has penned a new book entitled '2010-2014: 14 wasted years?', and we ask for his reflections on the Tory years in power.
    He says there were some good things, such as in education where standards rose, "aspects of pensions, aspects of science, aspects of the arts, Universal Credit".
    But he goes on: "Overall, growth and productivity has been stagnant since the global financial crisis of 2007-8, and if we look at health, if we look at transport, if we look at housing, if we look at the state of defence, if we look at Britain's position in the world - we don't see the different historians and academics who wrote the book... there isn't the kind of significant change in the standard of all those various areas and other that we have tended to see in long periods of Tory government in the past."
    He says there have been "some progressive, important, and incremental changes, but overall a disappointing performance, frankly".
    "It's hard to think of any period of single-party domination by the Conservative Party that has achieved less than the party's achieved since 2010."
    Infighting has been partly to blame, and it is also a party that is "unsure what it believes in" and is "confused", Sir Anthony says.
    He also says "the flip flop" of policies and ideological direction has been a problem.
    "There were so many opportunities that the Conservative government could have had for consistent and thoughtful policymaking, and it simply hasn't happened."

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7893085#liveblog-body
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited June 29

    GIN1138 said:

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
    You think CON are done for?
    I think they will get a gubbing on Thursday.

    But talk of the death of the most successful political party of the past couple of decades is seriously overdone. And will probably appear comical within the year.
    It's a mercy killing.
  • Right, time for Denmark to step up and provide a feel good factor by knocking out the Germans.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 29
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
    Do German-speaking Swiss prefer not to play in the national team?
  • Scott_xP said:

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May.

    I suspect BoZo is pretty happy about it too
    Not sure Bozo will ever be truly happy again. He blew it. And he knows it.
    The 2020s looked as if they belonged to him. It's incomprehensible really.
    And he blew it so a handful of spotty spads could have a bottle of lukewarm NZ Chardonnay.
    It wasn't just that. Fundamentally, he had pretty deep psychological flaws that his rivals (indeed some of his own family) warned about. They came out time and again - he had no ability to control them, and indeed admitted so himself towards the end in a rare moment of candour. He couldn't change the fundamentally dishonest, lazy chancer that he was.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    I have decided to test @another_richard’s theory that I’m just seeing the nice side of Brittany

    So I chose a town basically at random. I saw a flat for one night - very cheap. An hour away. In a town I’ve never heard of. I saw a photo of a river. Seemed ok

    Cheapness of apartment - £60 for 1 night for a whole apartment - would normally indicate a bit of a dump

    It is not a dump. The centre is stunning. No really. I’m sitting on an inhabited bridge - its houses and bars stand over a rushing river. There are streets of 19th century beauty and streets of 15-17th century charm

    There is evidence of economic distress - a few closed shops. This is not a posh town. It’s quite rough - a double g&t in this over-the-river bar is €8. Everyone is smoking and shouting

    But wow. Landerneau. Who knew? Not I

    https://www.brittanytourism.com/destinations/the-10-destinations/brest-terres-oceanes/landerneau/

    Yes, bit of an outlier though if it has the oldest inhabited bridge in Europe. On the Cornwall Cornouaille analogy I would guess Brittany has its Redruths and Callingtons and St Austells.
    But where are they? Where are the redruths and Cambornes? I’m trying to find them and AFAICS they don’t exist

    It helps that Britanny was never industrialised

    I might be revising my opinion that Italy is the most beautiful serious country per square mile and putting previous silver medalists France on the top spot. The proliferation of beautiful towns and landscapes is absolutely confounding
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    IanB2 said:

    The campaign of endless disaster that just keeps on giving...



    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    59m
    Exclusive: The Tories' warning of a Labour "supermajority" has backfired, a new poll has revealed.

    26% of voters say it makes them more likely to vote for Keir Starmer's party, compared to just 13% who will now back the Conservatives.

    People like to be on the winning side?
    I doubt it's backfired.

    It's the one thing I've heard everyone talking about.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether the Swiss team use a common language

    Yes. French.

    Very common indeed.
    Do German-speaking Swiss prefer not to play in the national team?
    They just moan about the Kosovans:

    https://www.tntsports.co.uk/football/euro-2016/2016/stephan-lichtsteiner-earns-support-after-suggesting-swiss-side-has-too-many-immigrants_sto4659383/story.shtml
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Greens and indys.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    TimS said:

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    But they don’t match LLG. The experimentation with minor parties is happening on both sides.

    This poll is LLG 57, RefCon 37. That’s precisely in line with bloc totals over the last several months. The bloc is 20% ahead.
    You can't add Liberal Democrats to "the left" that's not how the electorate see them, and, often, not how they present themselves.

    You can for the Greens.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    Heathener said:

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    It doesn’t work like that, which you know.

    I mean Lab + Lib Dem + Green is 57%

    Just pointless and yet more self-delusion from the Party which utterly blew it during the last 5 years.
    No, you can't add Lib Dem to that block. They are centrist/neutral, which is precisely how the public treat them. You can for Greens.

    And the ad hominem is typical of you and your hysteria and fundamental lack of intelligence and self-awareness.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have decided to test @another_richard’s theory that I’m just seeing the nice side of Brittany

    So I chose a town basically at random. I saw a flat for one night - very cheap. An hour away. In a town I’ve never heard of. I saw a photo of a river. Seemed ok

    Cheapness of apartment - £60 for 1 night for a whole apartment - would normally indicate a bit of a dump

    It is not a dump. The centre is stunning. No really. I’m sitting on an inhabited bridge - its houses and bars stand over a rushing river. There are streets of 19th century beauty and streets of 15-17th century charm

    There is evidence of economic distress - a few closed shops. This is not a posh town. It’s quite rough - a double g&t in this over-the-river bar is €8. Everyone is smoking and shouting

    But wow. Landerneau. Who knew? Not I

    https://www.brittanytourism.com/destinations/the-10-destinations/brest-terres-oceanes/landerneau/

    Yes, bit of an outlier though if it has the oldest inhabited bridge in Europe. On the Cornwall Cornouaille analogy I would guess Brittany has its Redruths and Callingtons and St Austells.
    But where are they? Where are the redruths and Cambornes? I’m trying to find them and AFAICS they don’t exist

    It helps that Britanny was never industrialised

    I might be revising my opinion that Italy is the most beautiful serious country per square mile and putting previous silver medalists France on the top spot. The proliferation of beautiful towns and landscapes is absolutely confounding
    Perhaps Brittany was spared all that mineable stuff
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989
    edited June 29

    TimS said:

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    But they don’t match LLG. The experimentation with minor parties is happening on both sides.

    This poll is LLG 57, RefCon 37. That’s precisely in line with bloc totals over the last several months. The bloc is 20% ahead.
    You can't add Liberal Democrats to "the left" that's not how the electorate see them, and, often, not how they present themselves.

    You can for the Greens.
    You can’t add Reform to the right then . Many of their supporters are national(ist) socialists, and you know it.

    Try promising the people of South Holland or Clacton a Thatcherite free market paradise and see how far it gets you.

    And as a Lib Dem myself I can happily add our lot to the bloc that isn’t right wing.

    The blocs are essentially as follows: those who think Rishi is too left wing. And those who think he’s too right wing.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    edited June 29
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have decided to test @another_richard’s theory that I’m just seeing the nice side of Brittany

    So I chose a town basically at random. I saw a flat for one night - very cheap. An hour away. In a town I’ve never heard of. I saw a photo of a river. Seemed ok

    Cheapness of apartment - £60 for 1 night for a whole apartment - would normally indicate a bit of a dump

    It is not a dump. The centre is stunning. No really. I’m sitting on an inhabited bridge - its houses and bars stand over a rushing river. There are streets of 19th century beauty and streets of 15-17th century charm

    There is evidence of economic distress - a few closed shops. This is not a posh town. It’s quite rough - a double g&t in this over-the-river bar is €8. Everyone is smoking and shouting

    But wow. Landerneau. Who knew? Not I

    https://www.brittanytourism.com/destinations/the-10-destinations/brest-terres-oceanes/landerneau/

    Yes, bit of an outlier though if it has the oldest inhabited bridge in Europe. On the Cornwall Cornouaille analogy I would guess Brittany has its Redruths and Callingtons and St Austells.
    But where are they? Where are the redruths and Cambornes? I’m trying to find them and AFAICS they don’t exist

    It helps that Britanny was never industrialised

    I might be revising my opinion that Italy is the most beautiful serious country per square mile and putting previous silver medalists France on the top spot. The proliferation of beautiful towns and landscapes is absolutely confounding
    A serious question for you - I'm enjoying your tour of Brittany. Every time you mention a new town, I look it up and scan through the pictures of it. It strikes me that in the town centres, I hardly every see motor cars littering the streets and squares - they all seem to be pretty much pedestrianised. Is my impression accurate, or is it just that the photos just avoid the cars? If so, I wonder if it's a major reason that these towns are such attractive places to sit, eat and drink and watch the world go by? Most English town centres are bedevilled by both moving and parked cars getting in the way.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    The Daily Mail tactical voting guide is like a far right wank dream

    I suspect most people will use it in reverse
    Leon said:

    Coming to Brittany you realise what a feat the Welsh have achieved - keeping Welsh alive. It is easy to find people naturally speaking Welsh - thee are entire towns where it is the main language. You walk into bars and shops - they speak Welsh

    When I first arrived in Brittany I asked guides where I could find native speakers. They were all all quite furtive - er, try a market, maybe the islands; dunno

    Now I realise that they did not want to disappoint me. But the truth is Breton has vanished

    Every time a civilising influence arrived they dispersed into the hills
    In that respect the Welsh are very much like the Kogi of Colombia

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-day-i-met-a-sun-priest/
    That's quite an enjoyable article. They should get the writer to write for their sister publication and it might be on the way to becoming readable again
    If I ever meet my stalker I shall hand on your appreciation
    I briefly had a stalker last year. It was unnerving.
    You think I've stopped?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    TimS said:

    Evening all, just had a lovely late afternoon beer and curry, yum. Did we do YG?
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (25-27 June 2024)

    Con: 20% (+2 from 24-25 June)
    Lab: 37% (+1)
    Reform UK: 17% (=)
    Lib Dem: 13% (-2)
    Green: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Labour look like coming in a little shy of 40, Tories low 20s unless Reform fizzle

    This is a crack suicide squad election.

    To show just how much Reform are shitting the bed: combine them with the Conservatives and they now *match* Labour.
    But they don’t match LLG. The experimentation with minor parties is happening on both sides.

    This poll is LLG 57, RefCon 37. That’s precisely in line with bloc totals over the last several months. The bloc is 20% ahead.
    You can't add Liberal Democrats to "the left" that's not how the electorate see them, and, often, not how they present themselves.

    You can for the Greens.
    On the contrary, you must, because almost every seat they can gain will be from the Conservatives, which isn't true of Reform. Labour and Green people will tactically vote LD to beat the Conservatives. That's what matters when looking at those vote shares. And it explains why LDs finish second on seats while fourth on votes when the more extreme forecasts are Baxtered.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    The Daily Mail tactical voting guide is like a far right wank dream

    I suspect most people will use it in reverse
    Leon said:

    Coming to Brittany you realise what a feat the Welsh have achieved - keeping Welsh alive. It is easy to find people naturally speaking Welsh - thee are entire towns where it is the main language. You walk into bars and shops - they speak Welsh

    When I first arrived in Brittany I asked guides where I could find native speakers. They were all all quite furtive - er, try a market, maybe the islands; dunno

    Now I realise that they did not want to disappoint me. But the truth is Breton has vanished

    Every time a civilising influence arrived they dispersed into the hills
    In that respect the Welsh are very much like the Kogi of Colombia

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-day-i-met-a-sun-priest/
    That's quite an enjoyable article. They should get the writer to write for their sister publication and it might be on the way to becoming readable again
    If I ever meet my stalker I shall hand on your appreciation
    I briefly had a stalker last year. It was unnerving.
    You think I've stopped?
    Oh shit.

    About to watch the 3rd and 4th episodes of baby Reindeer here.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Opinium were almost bang on in 2019 but have changed their methodology since.

    I will stick with Labour on about 40%.

    Sunak's strategy actually had some sense in it but he simply wasn't able to execute.

    It was clearly to wrongfoot and cripple Reform, and then go for Labour on tax. And you can see that playing out in what CCHQ has done.

    Almost could have worked. Had he got it right the Tories could have been up at 32-33% and Labour at 37-38% and a hung parliament.
    Which would have been pretty much spot on my call when the election was announced.

    But I could be forgiven for thinking that no PM would be dumb enough to leave D-Day early when making my calculation.

    Or having staff vote on the date of the election when they knew it.

    And then to treat Farage with a velvet glove - rather than smashing him in the face with a mailed fist.

    The only person who can have taken any grim satisfaction at the shite nature of the campaign is Theresa May. No longer the holder of the sobriquet of "Runner of the Worst Ever Election Camapign. Ever."
    You think CON are done for?
    I think they will get a gubbing on Thursday.

    But talk of the death of the most successful political party of the past couple of decades is seriously overdone. And will probably appear comical within the year.
    It's a mercy killing.
    Rishi had a certain naive charm...
This discussion has been closed.