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It’s only a sub-sample but.. – politicalbetting.com

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Jordan seriously expensive.

    Worse than Switzerland?
    How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
    I meant I do like Macdonalds.
    They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
    Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
    I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
    make your own I use this recipe
    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/mushroom-soup
    That reads like a good one to batch cook in a slow cooker and then portion-freeze, and microwave and grater strong cheese on.

    Personally I'd perhaps add crumbled black pudding for extra depth.
    Possibly a good addition will try it next time I make it, I have used crumbled barnstone blue with it in the past so can recommend that
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 962
    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    8% for reform is quite high in Scotland. I don't think they will get that much on the day in Scotland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited June 27
    Sandpit said:

    This is where Stokes could turn around a match.

    They knew the wicket was going to be tricky, but decided not to pick Duckett or Jacks (or even both).
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    Haven't we also got England getting smashed at rugby by the Kiwi's this weekend as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    There's a small swing from the SNP to the Tories there.
  • pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    Funny!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    Nunu5 said:

    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    8% for reform is quite high in Scotland. I don't think they will get that much on the day in Scotland.
    With the Lib Dems up that high, then seats in the Highlands and in Aberdeenshire are in play.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
  • Nunu5 said:

    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    8% for reform is quite high in Scotland. I don't think they will get that much on the day in Scotland.
    I agree. Last time when Farage was at that pub. A UKIP event they kicked him out. I am sure you remember the details. 8% no way.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Jordan seriously expensive.

    Worse than Switzerland?
    How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
    I meant I do like Macdonalds.
    They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
    Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
    I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
    make your own I use this recipe
    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/mushroom-soup
    That reads like a good one to batch cook in a slow cooker and then portion-freeze, and microwave and grater strong cheese on.

    Personally I'd perhaps add crumbled black pudding for extra depth.
    Possibly a good addition will try it next time I make it, I have used crumbled barnstone blue with it in the past so can recommend that
    A nice, sharp cheddar is always my go to but I like the French habit of putting something like grated Comte on it since it melts more evenly.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 962

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    I believe the internet in provincial France has not shut down retail to the same extent as it has here.
    I believe the French have some laws that protect small book stores for example. Laws that would never be passed in the UK.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    Aiming a bit high, England penalties coach to start with.
  • Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    I believe the internet in provincial France has not shut down retail to the same extent as it has here.
    I believe the French have some laws that protect small book stores for example. Laws that would never be passed in the UK.
    I did not know that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Only 11 an over required for the last 10 overs. Easy!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    Aiming a bit high, England penalties coach to start with.
    Surely if anyone can coach England at penalties, it’s Gareth Southgate?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
    Bars and restaurants provide a level of hospitality you don't get off the internet. Ordering off just-eat or deliveroo is not the same to going out.

    Town centre shops are history. A few niche ones can be good, typically in out of town retail parks, but they're not a sensible use of town retail estate.

    Why drive into a town centre to get to a shop, when you can get to a much more convenient out of town one, or get it delivered?

    Plus if you believe in public transport, I'd rather leave my car at home and get a taxi because I'm going into town to have a few drinks, than because I'm going shopping and will want my boot to put the shopping into.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    “Many relocating high-net-worth individuals (around 20%) are entrepreneurs and company founders, who often start businesses in their new country and therefore create local jobs. This percentage rises to over 60% for centi-millionaires and billionaires.”

    https://www.standard.co.uk/business/millionaires-leave-uk-rich-high-net-worth-china-dubai-uae-florida-usa-dubai-henley-b1165154.html
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
    Princes Street in Edinburgh looks dire, but that's mostly due to a unique combination of awful 1970s city planning, awful 1980s city planning, awful 1990s city planning, George St and the St James Centre hoovering up all the prestige stores and the pandemic. It's getting a little better since Uniqlo opened up but as an advertisement for an extremely wealthy city it's bloody awful.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    More like they insist on having fresh bread and fresh fish and so on in local shops, not driving 8 miles from Accrington to some Tesidlda giant supermarket?

    Sounds like a retrograde 1950s hellscape.

    I suppose they want to live like its a Little House on the Prairie next.

    Getting fresh produce, fish, bread, meat or anything else all under the same roof with the same car park, or even better delivered to you, is so much more convenient than dicking around with half a dozen tiny stores.
    Another problem with the 50s nostalgia of walking along the local High Street with a wicker basket visiting Mr Bun the baker, Mr Sole the fishmonger, Mr Bones the butcher etc is that these shops are shut by 5pm when people start leaving work.

    Whereas supermarkets are open all hours and are fully stocked.
    Since WFH I've made much more use of my local butcher. Supermarket bacon is crap, and supermarket sausages went weirdly downhill two years ago.
    But my local greengrocer - while it looks good on the street, and I'm happy to have it - is about three times the price of the supermarkets. And it's better quality, but not MUCH better quality.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
    Nearest local ‘big town’ ….. Braintree …. has an ‘out of town’ centre, Braintree Village which appears to have decimated the traditional town centre.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    And that really is game over now.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    It seems to have been advantageous to bat first in this tournament.

    So England decided yet again to field first and lose.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    Chris Jordan has got this.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    England will be pushed to reach 100 at this rate!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
    Nearest local ‘big town’ ….. Braintree …. has an ‘out of town’ centre, Braintree Village which appears to have decimated the traditional town centre.
    What's wrong with that?

    Good competition should be allowed to thrive and let people choose of their own free will.

    I'd rather drive to an out of town shopping centre like the Trafford Centre, than an inner city or town one like Liverpool One.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    i discussed exactly that with a Breton hotelier this week! - and her answer is Oui
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited June 27
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    The weather has been excellent, if sappingly humid, in Brittany and Normandy the last few days. People were sunbathing on Utah beach when I was wandering along there the other day.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,638
    The cricket's so shyte I have turned over to ITV to watch Keir!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    i discussed exactly that with a Breton hotelier this week! - and her answer is Oui
    Even without climate change, I much prefer the west coast of France to the south. The south was always pretty stifling. And a beach is not a real beach without a tide.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    The cricket's so shyte I have turned over to ITV to watch Keir!

    It’s not *that* bad!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    The cricket's so shyte I have turned over to ITV to watch Keir!

    QT's on BBC1 right now!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited June 27
    Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    The England team aren't voting next week.

    They can't find the box and could never put a cross into it.



    Ah, my coat!
    You'll be happy to hear I subjected my family to that one and got a full house of groans. Well done.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    Video of Channel 4's investigation into Reform in Clacton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmkMpYbOoO0
  • Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    It should be a blast.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    edited June 27

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    This will be the comeback of the century.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    What is needed is to find ways of helping those who contribute less than average to contribute more.

    Not to punish those who work hard and save and contribute more than average.

    If you do the latter people will spend more earlier, look for other ways to save and then retire earlier.

    As these people will be the highest skilled and highest earning then having them retire earlier is very damaging economically.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    72-7
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Andy_JS said:

    Video of Channel 4's investigation into Reform in Clacton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmkMpYbOoO0

    Pub bore party attracts pub bores shock. Not sure what's worse. The racism or the innumeracy.
  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    i discussed exactly that with a Breton hotelier this week! - and her answer is Oui
    Even without climate change, I much prefer the west coast of France to the south. The south was always pretty stifling. And a beach is not a real beach without a tide.
    West is the best.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    72-7

    What the Tories can hope for over the next 7 days?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,638

    Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    I think it's 9pm EST so 2am BST??

    I'm not staying up for that. I will be staying up next Thursday.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    i discussed exactly that with a Breton hotelier this week! - and her answer is Oui
    Even without climate change, I much prefer the west coast of France to the south. The south was always pretty stifling. And a beach is not a real beach without a tide.
    West is the best.
    Get here and we'll do the rest.
    The blue bus is calling us.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    Cicero said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    8% for reform is quite high in Scotland. I don't think they will get that much on the day in Scotland.
    With the Lib Dems up that high, then seats in the Highlands and in Aberdeenshire are in play.
    Inverness might be interesting and Jamie Stone will win Caithness/Sutherland handily. Aberdeenshire? No. Possibly an uptick but unionists will stick mostly with Tories to keep out SNP.
  • OnboardG1 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Video of Channel 4's investigation into Reform in Clacton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmkMpYbOoO0

    Pub bore party attracts pub bores shock. Not sure what's worse. The racism or the innumeracy.
    Both. Ignorant bunch.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    .
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    Firms poaching off each other is the free market in action.

    Nobody has a divine right to minimum wage labour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    I think it's 9pm EST so 2am BST??

    I'm not staying up for that. I will be staying up next Thursday.
    Yes it’s 2am UK time.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited June 27
    Survation should be updating their MRP tomorrow with a final update next week, something to chew on
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    More training and apprenticeships needed!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    Firms poaching off each other is the free market in action.

    Nobody has a divine right to minimum wage labour.
    Maybe the builders can hire more apprentices, instead of complaining about a lack of skilled workers or asking government for more immigrants.
  • Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    It should be a blast.
    With Donald point his finger.
  • Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    It should be a blast.
    With Donald point his finger.

    Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    It should be a blast.
    With Donald point his finger.
    Will Donald.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301

    Survation should be updating their MRP tomorrow with a final update next week, something to chew on

    Matt Goodwin's mob is publishing a poll tomorrow.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    More training and apprenticeships needed!
    Save me from the crafty cocknie rip off stressed out builders!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    pigeon said:

    When did Rishi Sunak become England's batting coach?

    Fake news. He's being lined up to replace Southgate after the forthcoming Slovakia debacle.
    Aiming a bit high, England penalties coach to start with.
    That, or Scotland group stage escape strategist.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    Latest from East Wilts..

    Be Brave Vote Dave is the Lib Dem message. I delivered three boxes with about seven thousand BBVD cards in them to Dave this morning for his last push, letterbox-wise

    He's also recorded a BBVD song (the video is below the lyrics)

    https://votedave.org.uk/

    It's silly but fun. He tells me there's more to come

    I've continued to do my best to talk him up whenever I've managed to steer conversations to the election. It's not been that difficult when I've been handing people a pile of election propaganda

    I've been quite impressed by the number who have met Dave already and plan to vote for him, and those who haven't met him but have heard about him and plan to vote for him

    I've also talked to a load of people who just want Kruger/Tories out, but don't know who to vote for. I then tell them why I'm voting for Dave (lovely guy, lives in town, cares about constituency etc.)

    I promise them that if Dave does get elected, I'll run a free postal service to his house from his constituents on my route. I told Dave, he seemed pleased

    I'll be astonished if Kruger does lose the seat, but it's not impossible any more. I'm a bit worried that MRP polls and tactical vote websites might split a potentially seismic result

    Be Brave, vote Dave

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    Survation should be updating their MRP tomorrow with a final update next week, something to chew on

    Matt Goodwin's mob is publishing a poll tomorrow.
    Lol. Should be interesting
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    I wonder if climate change and a series of intolerably hot summers in the Midi have been a boon to the West coast.
    i discussed exactly that with a Breton hotelier this week! - and her answer is Oui
    Even without climate change, I much prefer the west coast of France to the south. The south was always pretty stifling. And a beach is not a real beach without a tide.
    West is the best.
    Get here and we'll do the rest.
    The blue bus is calling us.
    Rishi where you taking us?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    That was Livingstone’s call Archer, and you’d have made it home.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    What is needed is to find ways of helping those who contribute less than average to contribute more.

    Not to punish those who work hard and save and contribute more than average.

    If you do the latter people will spend more earlier, look for other ways to save and then retire earlier.

    As these people will be the highest skilled and highest earning then having them retire earlier is very damaging economically.
    Who talked about punishing them, simple fact is we need tax from somewhere, if they retire early they still pay ni on the pension, they still get the clawback, they still get the lifetime healthcap

    You are never going to bring those that contribute less to contribute more because they are the majority and at the ballot box will say fuck off. That was my point about we are now at over 50% putting in less than they take out
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Now a f*****g run out, just to add to it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    Sandpit said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    Firms poaching off each other is the free market in action.

    Nobody has a divine right to minimum wage labour.
    Maybe the builders can hire more apprentices, instead of complaining about a lack of skilled workers or asking government for more immigrants.
    Just Googled bricklaying apprenticeships and I see some being advertised . . . with a wage of £5.28 per hour.

    My sympathies for those who can't find employees at £5.28 per hour.
  • Anyone remember yesterday's debate?

    Thought not
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    For what I see in England its those towns which were big enough to have major chain stores such as M&S, Boots, Debenhams that look tatty as they now have big empty blocks in prominent places.

    Plus those people who previously had been attracted by the big shops now stop visiting entirely.

    Towns at about 10k often seem to be doing better with redundant retail premises being converted into bars and restaurants.
    Nearest local ‘big town’ ….. Braintree …. has an ‘out of town’ centre, Braintree Village which appears to have decimated the traditional town centre.
    What's wrong with that?

    Good competition should be allowed to thrive and let people choose of their own free will.

    I'd rather drive to an out of town shopping centre like the Trafford Centre, than an inner city or town one like Liverpool One.
    Obviously being a) a red blooded male, and b) middle class and urban I feel duty bound to hate the Trafford Centre.
    And I do.
    But because it is less than ten minutes drive from me I've been there a lot.
    And it's worth pointing out that they do a lot of things very well.
    It's not just about parking. What I would say the Trafford Centre has going for it is that it is walkable - and also clean, well-maintained, free of litter and graffiti, busy, safe, well lit... It has few of the positives of a good quality town centre (like charm), but absolutely none of the negatives.
    People don't choose the Trafford Centre out of some indolent desire to minimise steps walked. Shoppers at the TC walk miles. But it doesn't feel difficult to do because walking is made so pleasant. Even the car parks are clean and tidy and not unpleasant.

    Town planners could learn a lot from the success of the Trafford Centre. I don't want to turn Manchester City Centre into a replica of the Trafford Centre - but I would very much like it to be as clean, neat, safe and free of nutters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    @benrileysmith

    NEW

    Rishi Sunak has accused Nigel Farage of “appeasing” Vladimir Putin with his comments about the Ukraine invasion

    PM draws a parallel between Farage and those who wanted softer approach to Nazis in 1930s. Says it hurts UK security

    The Prime Minister has largely avoided fierce direct criticism of the Reform leader, with polls suggesting some Tory voters are drifting to them

    But with a week left and the Tories hardening rhetoric to squeeze wavering voters the PM has gone in hard on Farage and Russia…

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1806413346624651687
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
  • Sandpit said:

    Are we all ready for the OAP screaming match from the US later on?

    I think it's 9pm EST so 2am BST??

    I'm not staying up for that. I will be staying up next Thursday.
    Yes it’s 2am UK time.
    I am recording it on BBC World or my friends at Sky are showing it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    edited June 27
    This post from a couple of weeks ago was invaluable as a betting on GE 2024 tool

    Some of the pollsters like YG changed their model R&W and a couple of others stuck to the no adjustment model.

    Not long to find out who was right

    https://twitter.com/patrickjfl/status/1795416143521255429?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1795417208224416164|twgr^c31937e90e732cf5662c3c5df2232730af488e25|twcon^s2_&ref_url=https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/05/28/bookmark-this-post-and-these-tweets/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    To return to last night's discussion about tied groups and tiebreakers.
    The final first round group of snooker's Championship League has just ended in a four way tie.
    All six games ended two frames each.
    Tie breaker is highest break.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
    An Anerican Import. Sedentary lifestyle for some and too many readymade supermarket meals and takeaway poison.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    What is needed is to find ways of helping those who contribute less than average to contribute more.

    Not to punish those who work hard and save and contribute more than average.

    If you do the latter people will spend more earlier, look for other ways to save and then retire earlier.

    As these people will be the highest skilled and highest earning then having them retire earlier is very damaging economically.
    Precisely why we need to be cutting taxes on PAYE and working, and increasing taxes commensurately on pensioners and other unearned incomes instead.

    Those who are working for their income should never pay more in tax than those who are not working for it.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
    An Anerican Import. Sedentary lifestyle for some and too many readymade supermarket meals and takeaway poison.
    American.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen

    So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?

    It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.

    One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.

    So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
    That’s interesting - merci

    I do wonder if Brittany is doing exceptionally well, even within France. It all seems so kempt and clean and affluent, even the grotty bits would be nice bits - sadly - inmany parts of the UK

    I’ve now been all over it for three weeks - driving in, through and around, the most rundown town I’ve seen is Douarnanez which is still rather attractive and about as nice as, say, Truro. Towns like Vannes, Dinan or Pont Aven ooze opulence. Someone downthread says my comparison twixt Taunton and Le Conquet is unfair because size, well then take Quimper, it has almost the exact same population as Taunton - circa 60,000 - and Quimper is thriving and I saw no empty shops

    Tourism is pulling in vast amounts of money, I sense, and a lot of wealthy Parisians are moving here full time or buying second homes
    Perhaps its rich Parisians you're seeing in Brittany rather than actual Bretons.

    Brittany might be the French equivalent of Cornwall.

    Nice for tourists but not so nice for locals who want to buy a house.

    What are the house prices and wages there ?

    You need top stop looking at churches and instead look in employment and estate agency's windows.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    Firms poaching off each other is the free market in action.

    Nobody has a divine right to minimum wage labour.
    Maybe the builders can hire more apprentices, instead of complaining about a lack of skilled workers or asking government for more immigrants.
    Just Googled bricklaying apprenticeships and I see some being advertised . . . with a wage of £5.28 per hour.

    My sympathies for those who can't find employees at £5.28 per hour.
    Presumably they’re looking for 16-year-olds with no bricklaying skills, in which case that’s not too bad. But after a couple of years, they’ll be getting £15-£20 as bricklayers?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062

    Cicero said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE @SkyNews NEW SCOTTISH POLL 🗳️

    👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    LAB: 35%
    SNP: 29%
    LDM: 11%
    CON: 11%
    RFM: 8%
    GRN: 5%
    OTHER: 1%

    https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body

    Source: YouGov/Sky News
    20-25 June


    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261

    Is that the @RochdalePioneers surge I see? 11%
    Their highest VI since the 2019 election!
    8% for reform is quite high in Scotland. I don't think they will get that much on the day in Scotland.
    With the Lib Dems up that high, then seats in the Highlands and in Aberdeenshire are in play.
    Inverness might be interesting and Jamie Stone will win Caithness/Sutherland handily. Aberdeenshire? No. Possibly an uptick but unionists will stick mostly with Tories to keep out SNP.
    West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine is worth a second look. The Nats are not well placed against Bowie, and the Lib Dems have been working the seat quite hard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    @FrancisUrquhart guess of 99 might come in here!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Survation should be updating their MRP tomorrow with a final update next week, something to chew on

    Matt Goodwin's mob is publishing a poll tomorrow.
    Surely a big swing from Reform nailed on with PP
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    We need a minister and ministry of walking. Including silly walks
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Anyone remember yesterday's debate?

    Thought not

    I did listen to "Surrender" by KD Lang again but otherwise, nope.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    edited June 27
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.

    You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.

    Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?

    Punative taxes to record levels? Tick
    Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick
    Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick
    Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick

    People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
    The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.

    The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
    Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past

    Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
    More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
    Labour won't meet those targets even if it is their deepest desire, simple fact is there aren't enough construction workers nor the supply of building materials. The problem is exacerbated by the fact we are over the 50% mark for people who take more from the state than they give. For those people voting for more is a no brainer.

    As many might have noted I tend rightwards :). However I do believe there should be a safety net, free education to 18 and a health service which is free at point of use.

    I also believe though that the state does too much and we should trim back what we do. I would rather the state did less but funded it properly than it tries to do too much and half arses everything.

    For starters I would do a clawback on state pensions, every 5£ over say 5k private pension should mean 1£ off your state pension

    NI on pensions

    A lifetime health care costs cap with an insurance based top off

    As examples
    There is no shortage of skilled tradies in this country who could be building homes if they were easily able to do so without planning restrictions.
    Sorry but there is, firms are poaching workers off each other because they can't get enough for example brickies
    and yes because we don't train enough
    Firms poaching off each other is the free market in action.

    Nobody has a divine right to minimum wage labour.
    Maybe the builders can hire more apprentices, instead of complaining about a lack of skilled workers or asking government for more immigrants.
    Just Googled bricklaying apprenticeships and I see some being advertised . . . with a wage of £5.28 per hour.

    My sympathies for those who can't find employees at £5.28 per hour.
    Presumably they’re looking for 16-year-olds with no bricklaying skills, in which case that’s not too bad. But after a couple of years, they’ll be getting £15-£20 as bricklayers?
    You'd think so, but no, this is for 19 year old apprentices with 2 A levels and 5+ GCSEs including Maths and English.

    Absolutely no sympathies for anyone struggling to recruit. Increase your pay to a rate that fills your vacancies, its not like you need a 7 year course before you can start laying your first brick.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
    Yes it is and it is noticeable in the young, however they are still notably thinner than us

    67% of UK adults are obese or overweight, it’s 47% in France - but rising fast (as you say)

    We really need generic Ozempic to be handed out to everyone, like putting fluoride in the water
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    There'll be a new verb come this time next week. "Sunaked"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    |England make the century :lol:
  • Found a green poster on the walk from the bus.

    So total in ~15 miles from the county town:

    2 lib.
    1 green.
    1 reform.

    Not a great deal of engagement out there given both the seats I went through were Libdem until 2015
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    edited June 27
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
    Yes it is and it is noticeable in the young, however they are still notably thinner than us

    67% of UK adults are obese or overweight, it’s 47% in France - but rising fast (as you say)

    We really need generic Ozempic to be handed out to everyone, like putting fluoride in the water
    We really don't.
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Obesity is also an issue for Brits. If you’re a fat lazy twat, and many of us are, then you can’t be bothered walking into town waddling under your own weight, you get it all delivered or jump in your car, like the super-obese Americans. Thus you get even fatter and even less inclined to walk and so on and so forth

    Isn't obesity becoming more of a thing in France these days?
    Yes it is and it is noticeable in the young, however they are still notably thinner than us

    67% of UK adults are obese or overweight, it’s 47% in France - but rising fast (as you say)

    We really need generic Ozempic to be handed out to everyone, like putting fluoride in the water
    67%. That is bad!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Pulpstar said:

    There'll be a new verb come this time next week. "Sunaked"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4855955#Comment_4855955
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    The suffering is all over.

    India deserve to win.

    ICC deserve to go to hell.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    All over for England cricket.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,912
    Buttler out. Mott out.
This discussion has been closed.