It's interesting to compare the Tory age split in the YouGov poll with how Britain voted in 1997. Then, 27% of 18-24s voted Conservative, and 36% of those 65+. YouGov now have these at 7% and 41%.
It will be absolutely astounding if the Tories receive a higher share of the vote from those aged 65+ in 2024, then they did in 1997.
Much as I might criticise Major's government it is hard to see why anyone would think the 2019-24 wasn't several orders of magnitude more shambolic and inept.
Burgessian said: » show previous quotes This is not a good time to be in government! (As Sir Keir may fairly soon find out). So far as I can see only Meloni seems to be bucking trend in the major countries - apart from Biden who has Trump to thank for that.
SSI - Has something to do with Trudeau the Younger's problem, as with Sunak.
HOWEVER think two other factors are at play in the Great White North:
> Justin Trudeau has been PM since 2015, thus significant fatigue with him AND his Liberal Party; similar to UK voter fatigue with CUP.
> Pierre Poilievre, Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, is WAY more of an electoral asset than his predecessor who lost last election to JT; similar to Starmer compared to Corbyn.
We Brits have some understanding of how the Celts came to be driven back to the mountainous fringes of our own country, but quite how and when all the more sensible compassionate folk came to be driven north by the American barbarians and left to inhabit only the northern sub-arctic tundra of Canada is a bit of history that seems to have passed most of us by?
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
Much in that I agree with. Particularly the breaking of the SNP monopoly in Scotland. I also agree Starmer and Reeves are no Corbyn and Macdonald. I expect quite centrist policies from them.
I also think the Tories are intellectually exhausted and need a break. But you can still have too much of a good thing!
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?
Punative taxes to record levels? Tick Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick
People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
Socialist governement always results in two classes....party members and serfs. Capitalism for all its faults has never in any country produced zil lanes for the party faithful
I am prepared to eat my words on this, but though many such governments have been atrocious, I think I am confident Starmer will not be quite to that level.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
So, you must be in favour of proportional representation? What you are complaining of is a feature of FPTP.
No what I am complaining about is the inbicility of those who don’t seem to understand the implications of FPTP.
We were interested to see Nigel Farage hiring the devil's own law firm, Carter-Ruck, to respond to the Mail on Sunday's story that claimed Farage was personally "infected with Putinism".
While Farage doesn't look out of place on Carter-Ruck's client list (The Church Of Scientology, Simon Cowell, Chelsea FC, Qatar, etc) we're not sure they're the best firm to hire if you're looking to scrub the taint of Putin.
Not least because, Carter-Ruck head honcho Nigel Tait was specifically named in the House of Commons in 2022 as one of the "amoral" lawyers in the profession aiding Russian interests in the UK courts at the expense of British citizens.
What is the source of Farange-Reform funding?????
Pretty obvious that NF himself doesn't have more than a medium-sized pot to piss in. In theory the libel suit gives him a shot at refueling his personal exchequer. PLUS doubling-down on his rhetoric, which IMHO is most pleasing to yet another potential source of sustenance = Trump.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?
Punative taxes to record levels? Tick Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick
People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
Socialist governement always results in two classes....party members and serfs. Capitalism for all its faults has never in any country produced zil lanes for the party faithful
I am prepared to eat my words on this, but though many such governments have been atrocious, I think I am confident Starmer will not be quite to that level.
I didn't claim he would but then I don't believe he will be the leader of a socialist governement because he wants more than one term
We were interested to see Nigel Farage hiring the devil's own law firm, Carter-Ruck, to respond to the Mail on Sunday's story that claimed Farage was personally "infected with Putinism".
While Farage doesn't look out of place on Carter-Ruck's client list (The Church Of Scientology, Simon Cowell, Chelsea FC, Qatar, etc) we're not sure they're the best firm to hire if you're looking to scrub the taint of Putin.
Not least because, Carter-Ruck head honcho Nigel Tait was specifically named in the House of Commons in 2022 as one of the "amoral" lawyers in the profession aiding Russian interests in the UK courts at the expense of British citizens.
What is the source of Farange-Reform funding?????
Pretty obvious that NF himself doesn't have more than a medium-sized pot to piss in. In theory the libel suit gives him a shot at refueling his personal exchequer. PLUS doubling-down on his rhetoric, which IMHO is most pleasing to yet another potential source of sustenance = Trump.
Tice is the main funder of Reform.
Ah, so that's why he gets the honour of being Farage's stand in when the latter is too bored to do something, like be Leader between elections.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Just to note for anyone interested in forecasts who didn't see this one mentioned on an earlier thread, the latest UK-Elect forecast has now been released at https://www.ukelect.co.uk/HTML/forecasts/20240627ForecastUK.html. (UK-Elect has been one of the most accurate pre-election forecasts at several past elections.)
It shows Labour 429 seats, Conservative 125, Liberal Democrat 50, SNP 17, Plaid Cymru 4, Reform UK 3, and Green 3, giving an overall Labour majority of 210.
That forecast uses the current UK-Elect default forecasting settings, using the actual candidate list and taking some account of constituency opinion polls, by-elections since 2019, Brexit referendum leave/remain percentages, incumbency, and tactical voting among other factors. This forecast combines various methods, including both proportional and UNS elements. Although the algorithm is targeted at forecasting the overall situation more than individual seats the forecast top three in every constituency can be found here: https://www.ukelect.co.uk/20240627ForecastUK/UKTop3Forecast.csv
That looks like a pretty sound forecast to me. Around what I’m expecting at the moment.
Overall maybe but at a seat level?
No way is North Dorset finishing Simon Hoare Conservative 17029 31.85% Ash Leaning Reform UK 11642 21.77% James Coldwell Labour 10693 20.00%
Yes Simon Hoare will probably win (but not if Reform get 21% btw).
LDs will be in the top two for sure. In the recent locals it was Con 48%, LD 38%, others 14%.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
Much in that I agree with. Particularly the breaking of the SNP monopoly in Scotland. I also agree Starmer and Reeves are no Corbyn and Macdonald. I expect quite centrist policies from them.
I also think the Tories are intellectually exhausted and need a break. But you can still have too much of a good thing!
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
This is because you believe socialism is a utopia where as for the vast majority of people would find it a dystopian hellscape
We survived that hellscape from 1997 to 2010 OK. And you didn't have to wait over a year for a hospital appointment.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
One thing they both agree on is some folk in both counties are not mad about tourists.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?
Punative taxes to record levels? Tick Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick
People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.
The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
This is because you believe socialism is a utopia where as for the vast majority of people would find it a dystopian hellscape
We survived that hellscape from 1997 to 2010 OK. And you didn't have to wait over a year for a hospital appointment.
New labour were nowhere near socialist is perhaps the clue here?
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
So, you must be in favour of proportional representation? What you are complaining of is a feature of FPTP.
No what I am complaining about is the inbicility of those who don’t seem to understand the implications of FPTP.
No one thinks the Tories can win; Labour are nailed-on for government. Ergo if you're inclined to the Right I can see the logic in voting for Reform as a protest vote.
Interesting he apologises to Farage and Reform but not to Sunak?
A volunteer Reform UK canvasser has been filmed calling Rishi Sunak a “f---ing P---” by an undercover reporter.
Channel 4 News filmed the remarks in Clacton, where Nigel Farage is running to be MP, by Andrew Parker.
“I’ve always been a Tory voter,” he said. “But what annoys me is that f---ing P--- we’ve got in. What good is he? You tell me, you know. He’s just wet. F---ing useless.”
In a statement, Mr Parker said: “I would like to make it clear that neither Nigel Farage personally or the Reform Party are aware of my personal views on immigration.”
He added: “I would therefore like to apologise profusely to Nigel Farage and the Reform Party if my personal views have reflected badly on them and brought them into disrepute as this was not my intention.
Mr Farage said: “I am dismayed by the reported comments of a handful of people associated with my local campaign, particularly those who are volunteers. They will no longer be with the campaign.”
My immediate skim-read thought was "But Sunak *is* a fucking Prick".
The observation that Fareham does not have a railway station in what I think is the same video is an interesting one.
That was also Mansfield for 30 years (75k people), and Sutton-in-Ashfield (50k people) the same, and places like Washington (I think), Gosport, Peterlee, Ashington, Consett and others.
The first two have had light rail since 1995, which on the whole line now carries 2-3 million passengers per annum and is a useful service.
A useful indicator of neglect? Does someone have a list? Are these all 'ignored' places?
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
Much in that I agree with. Particularly the breaking of the SNP monopoly in Scotland. I also agree Starmer and Reeves are no Corbyn and Macdonald. I expect quite centrist policies from them.
I also think the Tories are intellectually exhausted and need a break. But you can still have too much of a good thing!
"monopoly"
As a good Unionist, you should be looking at Westminster as a whole. As for Holyrood, if this is a monopoly, what happ[ens when it isn't a minority administration, I wonder?
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
More like they insist on having fresh bread and fresh fish and so on in local shops, not driving 8 miles from Accrington to some Tesidlda giant supermarket?
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?
Punative taxes to record levels? Tick Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick
People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.
The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past
Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
Taunton is about twenty times the size so the comparison is a little meaningless.
There are plenty of towns in continental Europe with similar issues. Places just vary in how well they adapt to economic and social change, and there are both good and bad examples everywhere.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
I believe the internet in provincial France has not shut down retail to the same extent as it has here.
They are idiots. Their demographic could swing entire elections. They could have prevented Brexit if they really wanted to. They could be the electoral counterweight to the grey vote, effectively neutralising it.
Most 18-24s years old do vote, and the turnout gap isn't that big anymore . It is harder for them as they move more often so need ot be pro-active about registering and will have more restrictions on a particular Thursday between 10-10. This probably accounts for most of the variation rather than apathy.
My daughter was away from home Monday-Friday for the May local elections on a work training course. So she applied for a postal vote. The postal vote did not arrive before she left home for the week, and the council were not sympathetic when she phoned to find out if there was any way she could arrange a last-minute proxy vote instead.
Older people have more predictable lives and don't stray far from home as often.
We might consider allowing early in-person voting on the weekend before the election.
I think early in person the weekend before is a very sensible idea.
Early in-person voting sounds appealing but would surely be a logistical nightmare. Our system is based on polling stations in schools and halls that would otherwise be used for their main purposes, and that are mostly within walking distance.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
I'd suggest that a part of it is hollowing out of local Government funding under all parties and therefore local services, which diverts all the resources from things of community local value to statutory requirements, out of town centres / retail parks, and local Government not being devolved to a properly local level.
One reason my town has been challenged for a couple of decades is that we have a Macarthur Glen outlet centre about 2 miles away, literally metres over the County border (so business rates go to Bolsover and Derbyshire), which draws 4 million visitors a year. Difficult to compete with.
I listened to a New Statesman podcast from a couple of months ago this morning, which was revealing. The current Government slashed central finding, whilst limiting local income, and took the guard rails of "entrepreneurship" whilst undermining expertise and capacity.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
AIUI the UK actually does have an unusually high proportion of total retail sales made online. Similar to China and well ahead of most other major economies. It may simply be that France is a little way behind on this metric, and will catch up in due course.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
More like they insist on having fresh bread and fresh fish and so on in local shops, not driving 8 miles from Accrington to some Tesidlda giant supermarket?
Sounds like a retrograde 1950s hellscape.
I suppose they want to live like its a Little House on the Prairie next.
Getting fresh produce, fish, bread, meat or anything else all under the same roof with the same car park, or even better delivered to you, is so much more convenient than dicking around with half a dozen tiny stores.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
C'mon, Cornwall's not THAT bad....
I moved from slough to devon to look after my father, I preferred slough just saying
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
C'mon, Cornwall's not THAT bad....
It is ok. Used to be a lot cheaper for a holiday than it is now.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
It’s happened in rural France too but in a slightly different way more redolent of Counties like Kent and Sussex.
One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.
So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
AIUI the UK actually does have an unusually high proportion of total retail sales made online. Similar to China and well ahead of most other major economies. It may simply be that France is a little way behind on this metric, and will catch up in due course.
Currently the eu is far worse for online snooping into its citizens than here though we are heading the same way
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
AIUI the UK actually does have an unusually high proportion of total retail sales made online. Similar to China and well ahead of most other major economies. It may simply be that France is a little way behind on this metric, and will catch up in due course.
Currently the eu is far worse for online snooping into its citizens than here though we are heading the same way
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
Despite talking about Afro-Eurasia, I'd spring for five myself. But I'm not getting into submerged continents or microcontinents. Though what hapened to Oceania? When I was at school they told us to use that instead of Australasia.
Oh yes. The continent with the highest density of bakeries on the planet.
Never liked the pasties.
It's not the pasties.
It's because everyone from Cornwall is really into bread.
They were upset there after the majority of them voted for Brexit and the EU redrew their funding. And they do not like the grockels. They should move to Paris and get the Parisans to run Cornwall and insist on speaking French to tourists.
We don't have grockels that is devon we have emmets named after a small species of ant....annoying and hard to get rid of
I stand corrected. I went to school in Devon. Rivals. Devon and Cornwall.
Devon and cornwall have never been rivals, devon is accrington stanley to cornwalls manchester united
C'mon, Cornwall's not THAT bad....
I moved from slough to devon to look after my father, I preferred slough just saying
They get more rain down there. USA Hurricane season can Batter those two counties. Cornwall gets a battering more than Devon I believe.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
Is it still though the Tories will hold any seats? I mean, the LDs held 4 on even less of the vote, but it does require extreme clustering of the vote.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
Other than Corbyn being defeated the SNP getting gubbed and Scottish independence being killed stone dead for a generation will be the Tory highlight next week.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
The only problem with 10 years of socialist government is that it isn't 20 years of socialist government.
I know you are a natural conservative, but we aren't really that scary. We want a better society, where all can prosper. A nation at ease with itself. And, importantly to you, we are fundamentally Unionist. It is the SNP who have raised your taxes, not us!
Don't believe all of the nonsense being spewed out by Sunak and the children at CCHQ (I don't think you do); a Labour government, in the hands of a lawyer and a city insider, in the form of Starmer and Reeves, isn't going to do anything madcap. And, with a "super-majority", they can ignore the lefty fringe on the back benches. Twenty rebels? So what?
You should also be contented in the demise of the SNP, something to be repeated in the next Holyrood elections, I suspect.
The conservatives will regroup. It will take a decade, but a sensible centre-right alternative to Labour will re-emerge. The Tories won't be controlled by Farage; perhaps by Priti or Suella in the short term, but common sense will prevail. You'll get your party back.
Much in that I agree with. Particularly the breaking of the SNP monopoly in Scotland. I also agree Starmer and Reeves are no Corbyn and Macdonald. I expect quite centrist policies from them.
I also think the Tories are intellectually exhausted and need a break. But you can still have too much of a good thing!
"monopoly"
As a good Unionist, you should be looking at Westminster as a whole. As for Holyrood, if this is a monopoly, what happ[ens when it isn't a minority administration, I wonder?
Anyone who thinks it a monopoly hasn't got a clue. It's just a person trying to scrabble around for something bad to say because they got the wrong result. Sorry, but it's an operation with diminishing returns to complain about one party doing well because they're popular. If there one thing to connect four opposition parties it's that they haven't been able to get over losing so many elections in a row.
Isn’t Scotland simply the maths of one party on one side of a political divide and multiple parties on the other. Something which gives extreme results in FPTP but is also helpful in PR as coalitions are easier.
The question is whether that’s a stable equilibrium. The Conservatives have benefited from this pattern in England and Wales since Brexit and arguably for much of the post-war period, but Reform potentially disrupts it. So far Alba and the Scottish Greens haven’t really disrupted the SNP hegemony but will someone eventually? In this social media era I think it’s more likely than not.
We could call this Zuma’s law. The tendency that if one party enjoys control of one half of a political divide, it will eventually face a challenger on its own side. Zuma’s law because eventually, after a few decades of ANC rule, its control of black majority votes in S Africa is starting to fracture.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
The Wings post on possible voting options was quite amusing, given his disdain for all the options. He obviously prefers Alba to some degree, but worries that would just help the SNP, so has no real clue what to do (though he's in Bath, so fine for him).
In so far as we have any advice at all, then, it’s to use your vote to wreak as much destruction as you can, to shed the dead weight around our ankles and clear the launchpad for next time so that we can in future once more begin to dream of slipping the surly bonds of the Union https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-days-of-no-good-choices/
ANME update: we've now had a leaflet from Reform. So that's all the main parties: Conservative, SNP, Lib Dem, and Reform. Still not a peep out of Labour.
Irrespective of the score, it’s a really poor show from the ICC that the stadium is half empty for a semi final.
Apparently no hotel rooms left in town, and no flights out tonight.
Doesn't help the absurdity that India knew if they were in the semis they'd be playing here today, but that England fans didn't know where England would be playing until a couple of days ago.
Shame on the ICC for allowing such an abuse of process.
The debate about tatty Taunton and hollowed out British market towns occurred as I was walking around Le Conquet in north Finistere. ANOTHER beautiful French town with a thriving centre and not an empty shop to be seen
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
More like they insist on having fresh bread and fresh fish and so on in local shops, not driving 8 miles from Accrington to some Tesidlda giant supermarket?
Sounds like a retrograde 1950s hellscape.
I suppose they want to live like its a Little House on the Prairie next.
Getting fresh produce, fish, bread, meat or anything else all under the same roof with the same car park, or even better delivered to you, is so much more convenient than dicking around with half a dozen tiny stores.
Another problem with the 50s nostalgia of walking along the local High Street with a wicker basket visiting Mr Bun the baker, Mr Sole the fishmonger, Mr Bones the butcher etc is that these shops are shut by 5pm when people start leaving work.
Whereas supermarkets are open all hours and are fully stocked.
"Referring to the legal spending limit for a campaign in a single seat, Mr Gravett says: “A short campaign you’ve got, I don’t know, twenty grand or whatever it is, the figure”.
In response, Mr Bates is heard saying: “We’ve spent double that already, don’t worry”, before Mr Jones adds: “It’s twenty grand minus… It’s six for VAT. So actually it’s only f****** fifteen.”"
Well. I for one am shocked, surprised and appalled. Vat on twenty grand is £4k you fucking waste of space. And 20-6 is 14 ffs.
Is it still though the Tories will hold any seats? I mean, the LDs held 4 on even less of the vote, but it does require extreme clustering of the vote.
I think the Lib Dem vote is likely more efficient than the Conservative vote. Con on 11% is near wipeout territory. I've been predicting 2 seats for SCon which is very much on the bearish end. But 11% is below my expectations of vote share, so it might turn out that way.
How much is a Big Mac in Zurich? I do like Macdonalds though.
I meant I do like Macdonalds.
They're ok, but a nice warm tin of Campbells on a winter's night is to die for.
Tomato soup with cheese on toast on a cold night...
I like Campbell's Condensed Mushroom Soup (the only tinned mushroom soup that actually tastes of anything at this point) but it's a bugger to get around here. Whenever I see it in Tesco I buy six cans of it.
I am not getting a lot of joy out of this election but the thing I find most irritating is the number of muppets minded to vote for Reform and, indirectly, 10 years of socialist government. There have been suggestions for a while that IQs are falling but this is a jump off a tall bridge.
You begin to wonder if democracy is just too hard for some people.
Question - what is the difference between "socialist government" and the Conservatives?
Punative taxes to record levels? Tick Wasting billions on crap public services? Tick Open door migration letting anyone in? Tick Nanny state nonsense about what we eat and smoke? Tick
People don't fear "socialist government" or any of the idiotic threats Sunak and the press team are making, because we live that every day already.
The Overton window is so narrow there is almost nothing substantive to discuss. Once you have a welfare state, free state education, NHS, industrial policy, consumer protection, regulation about everything, and a few other things a social democrat state with highly regulated capitalism is the only option. State managed expenditure has increased every year and this will continue. It is unavoidable.
The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
Not something I advocate by any means just an observation on all governements of the past
Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
More broadly we have a terrible problem with dependency, chiefly due to a combination of low paid employment and ridiculous housing costs (meaning that many working people end up reliant on social security) and vast numbers of pensioners. The situation is theoretically recoverable, but some of the measures required - especially millions of houses and attendant infrastructure, and requiring people to work until 70 or possibly slightly beyond that - are so unpopular that they'll probably never get done. I'll certainly be surprised in a good way of Labour manages to meet its building commitments, and astonished if the houses are decent rather than shoddily constructed little identikit rabbit hutches marooned amidst acres of car parking.
Comments
It's interesting to compare the Tory age split in the YouGov poll with how Britain voted in 1997. Then, 27% of 18-24s voted Conservative, and 36% of those 65+. YouGov now have these at 7% and 41%.
It will be absolutely astounding if the Tories receive a higher share of the vote from those aged 65+ in 2024, then they did in 1997.
Much as I might criticise Major's government it is hard to see why anyone would think the 2019-24 wasn't several orders of magnitude more shambolic and inept.
I also think the Tories are intellectually exhausted and need a break. But you can still have too much of a good thing!
No way is North Dorset finishing
Simon Hoare Conservative 17029 31.85%
Ash Leaning Reform UK 11642 21.77%
James Coldwell Labour 10693 20.00%
Yes Simon Hoare will probably win (but not if Reform get 21% btw).
LDs will be in the top two for sure. In the recent locals it was Con 48%, LD 38%, others 14%.
Brown was certainly dumb in instance you cite. Whereas the Farage "volunteer" is likely a toxic asshole 24/7, based on his "apology" to NF.
Who(m) he thinks - for some reason - shares his bigotry.
The left have one further option - this + socialist state control of all commerce too. No serious right wing option has emerged with a working model in Europe yet. This is one of the most remarkable and underestimated facts of political policy. The Conservative party's two biggest fails since the war are: Lack of European statecraft, leading to the disaster of Brexit; and the failure to practice conservatism in any respects at all.
But I wonder if the principle has value ?
So this is in some ways a British thing. Or don’t the French use the internet?
As a good Unionist, you should be looking at Westminster as a whole. As for Holyrood, if this is a monopoly, what happ[ens when it isn't a minority administration, I wonder?
Wars used to cull the poor, now we no longer really have mass casualty wars its a new problem for governements of all stripes to have a burgeoning underclass and they have no idea how to deal with it
There are plenty of towns in continental Europe with similar issues. Places just vary in how well they adapt to economic and social change, and there are both good and bad examples everywhere.
One reason my town has been challenged for a couple of decades is that we have a Macarthur Glen outlet centre about 2 miles away, literally metres over the County border (so business rates go to Bolsover and Derbyshire), which draws 4 million visitors a year. Difficult to compete with.
I listened to a New Statesman podcast from a couple of months ago this morning, which was revealing. The current Government slashed central finding, whilst limiting local income, and took the guard rails of "entrepreneurship" whilst undermining expertise and capacity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRU8ErAPj4
I suppose they want to live like its a Little House on the Prairie next.
Getting fresh produce, fish, bread, meat or anything else all under the same roof with the same car park, or even better delivered to you, is so much more convenient than dicking around with half a dozen tiny stores.
One settlement in an area - usually either the prettiest or most accessible - becomes a hub with the restaurants, decent shops and weekly market. These towns do much better than most of their English counterparts. The other similarly sized settlements in the immediate area get hollowed out and become dormitories with one or two bar-Tabacs and a proximarche.
So around us Cluny and Cormatin - which are both pretty and well connected - get the market, the festivals, the restaurants and boutiques, and the tourists. Others like St Gengoux, St Bonnet de Joux, Salornay-sur-Guye make do with one of two shops (though Salornay does have a decent boulangerie a pizzeria).
Given my post-like ratio not very successfully.
Game over now. Teams winning after losing 3 wickets in the powerplay is tiny....and England are short a top quality batter.
👀Westminster Voting Intention 🏴
LAB: 35%
SNP: 29%
LDM: 11%
CON: 11%
RFM: 8%
GRN: 5%
OTHER: 1%
https://news.sky.com/story/election-2024-poll-sunak-starmer-debate-conservatives-labour-reform-lib-dem-12593360?postid=7881963#liveblog-body
Source: YouGov/Sky News
20-25 June
https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1806405123268301261
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/mushroom-soup
But I can't always be bothered making my own sandwiches for lunch.
Apparently no hotel rooms left in town, and no flights out tonight.
All out for 99 incoming.
Other than Corbyn being defeated the SNP getting gubbed and Scottish independence being killed stone dead for a generation will be the Tory highlight next week.
The question is whether that’s a stable equilibrium. The Conservatives have benefited from this pattern in England and Wales since Brexit and arguably for much of the post-war period, but Reform potentially disrupts it. So far Alba and the Scottish Greens haven’t really disrupted the SNP hegemony but will someone eventually? In this social media era I think it’s more likely than not.
We could call this Zuma’s law. The tendency that if one party enjoys control of one half of a political divide, it will eventually face a challenger on its own side. Zuma’s law because eventually, after a few decades of ANC rule, its control of black majority votes in S Africa is starting to fracture.
In so far as we have any advice at all, then, it’s to use your vote to wreak as much destruction as you can, to shed the dead weight around our ankles and clear the launchpad for next time so that we can in future once more begin to dream of slipping the surly bonds of the Union
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-days-of-no-good-choices/
Shame on the ICC for allowing such an abuse of process.
Whereas supermarkets are open all hours and are fully stocked.
"Referring to the legal spending limit for a campaign in a single seat, Mr Gravett says: “A short campaign you’ve got, I don’t know, twenty grand or whatever it is, the figure”.
In response, Mr Bates is heard saying: “We’ve spent double that already, don’t worry”, before Mr Jones adds: “It’s twenty grand minus… It’s six for VAT. So actually it’s only f****** fifteen.”"
Well. I for one am shocked, surprised and appalled. Vat on twenty grand is £4k you fucking waste of space. And 20-6 is 14 ffs.
Hope you got on.
Personally I'd perhaps add crumbled black pudding for extra depth.
https://x.com/legsidelizzy/status/1806408129166311915