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Sir Keir Starmer: The Corbyn slayer? – politicalbetting.com

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  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 26
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And had he been a U.S. citizen, it's fairly likely he'd have been able to assert 1st amendment rights as part of his defence, and possibly gig a similar plea deal.

    So it's not the worst all round compromise.

    I'm not an Assange fan either, but time to forget him and move on.
    IIUC the First Amendment wouldn't have helped against what they were charging Assange with. They weren't going after him for publishing the leaked documents, which is legal. They were charging him with helping Manning to steal them, which is illegal.

    Specifically they're saying he gave Manning advice on what tools to use to commit the crime, and also that she sent him password hashes and he tried, unsuccessfully, to crack them himself.

    In true cypherpunk tradition everything Assange did to help Manning seems to have been entirely useless and a waste of her time, but I'm not sure whether that would have helped him if he'd ended up in court.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 26
    CNN came in third place in total viewers in primetime and total day (605k/463k) but was the No.2 show in the demo of A25-54 (124k/86k).

    https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/here-are-the-cable-news-ratings-for-january-2024/

    That awful ratings for CNN, basically ~100k for the key demographic i.e. people who actually buy stuff. CNN’s audience was smaller than that of INSP, an obscure cable network that plays Western television shows and films.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971

    No more polls tonight presusumably. Anyone know please which we can expect tomorrow?

    Good to see you PfP, hope you are keeping well!

    What bets do you have for UK 2024?
    Thanks Double C ... your kind words are absolutely reciprocated on my part.
    I'm mainly on the spreads, selling the Blue team down from 160 seats and buying the reds up from 430 seats. Also a variety of fixed odds bets favouring large Labour majorities, etc.
    We haven't yet booked the Caribbean holiday yet but something rather better than a long weekend in Clacton is definitely in prospect!
    Where is your betting focused?
    Ah thanks PfP great to hear from you :smiley:

    Going to start betting this week hopefully, looking at Con seats >100, also very safe Con seats (eg 60%+ in 2019 vote) where there's a decent return eg 30-40%.

    That's my starting point.

    For all the other almost 40 or so countries that I follow, the UK election night is probably still genuinely my favourite.

    Good luck with your bets!
    If the polls currently have it right, then the betting value has ebbed away during the campaign, an example being that Tory seats on the spreads are down from around 160+ to the present level of circa 117 seats mid-spread. Of course there's still time for the Blue Team to have a late surge which has actually been the case in just about every G.E. over the last 30 years.

    Good luck with your POTUS betting DC. I'll be looking out for your predictions ... the first presumably whether Biden and/or Trump will actually be their respective parties' candidates?
    The idea that the Tories always have a late surge is one of politics enduring myths. Sure, they did in 1992, maybe 2029, Maybe also 2015, although that was more about the LibDem collapse. But not in 2017, or 2010, or 1997.
    They did in both 2010 and 1997.

    Not enough to change the result significantly, but enough to be real - and in the case of 2010 significantly limit my losses on the spreads I was worried about, which is why I'll never bet on spreads again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    Interesting. I wonder whether you'd have thought that if he'd just exposed the illegal poisonings and covert illegalities perpetrated by the Russian state?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 26
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    Interesting. I wonder whether you'd have thought that if he'd just exposed the illegal poisonings and covert illegalities perpetrated by the Russian state?
    Are you still one of the small number of people that still thinks he is one of the good guys?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    nico679 said:

    Starmer will be very annoyed that he can no longer use the betting issue as a stick to beat the Tories with . As soon as one Labour candidate was implicated admittedly for a different type of bet the public might view it as a plague on both houses .

    He will of course though highlight his swift action versus Sunaks obfuscation.

    I don’t see it making much difference to the polling.

    In the words of Johnson:

    "There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    Interesting. I wonder whether you'd have thought that if he'd just exposed the illegal poisonings and covert illegalities perpetrated by the Russian state?
    You may or may not have forgotten, but he spends rather a lot of time trying to cover those up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,153
    edited June 26
    Interesting little interview on the New Statesman podcast with Andew Marr about Nigel Farage.

    "Nigel Farage has lost the Right."

    I quite like his phrases describing Mr Farage's "middle England" base (ignoring Farage's C2DE base).

    'Post-WW2 patriots' and "Chaps with claret coloured trousers wandering into model shops."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYW3khd5ro
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    Interesting. I wonder whether you'd have thought that if he'd just exposed the illegal poisonings and covert illegalities perpetrated by the Russian state?
    Are you still one of the small number of people that still thinks he is one of the good guys?
    I've no particular view on that but I'm sick of reading many years after the events of dirty dealings or lies or wrongdoing ignored at the time because the countries involved were allies. Read about Israel 1948 or Suez or Vietnam or even the Falklands
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
    The funny thing is that "I will not be silenced by a man" sounds like one of the things many Tories would ridicule if said by someone on the Left.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Aren’t we due another People Polling today .

    After last weeks drama which was clearly an outlier I wonder what that’s going to show .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. I’m pretty sure that 5 points is the statistical minimum required to qualify top of a group of four teams.

    Surely 3 points. Everybody draws with everybody else in every match.
    Then no-one would be top, there would be lots drawn.
    No because after goal difference, they use goals scored as a further differentiator so teams that were part of a 1-1 draw would be placed higher than those from a 0-0 draw. And of course since that would not separate the top two teams they then use yellow and red cards as the final differentiator. The team with the fewer cards being placed higher.

    That is how Denmark have qualified above Slovenia.
    You can also have a situation where every team wins once and loses twice. So again everybody ends up with 3 points, but there will then be more likely distinct goal differences / total goal scored.
    You can’t because there are 4 tens and 6 matches

    You can have all teams winning 1, losing 1 and drawing 1. Which is would give all teams 4 points
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. I’m pretty sure that 5 points is the statistical minimum required to qualify top of a group of four teams.

    Surely 3 points. Everybody draws with everybody else in every match.
    Then no-one would be top, there would be lots drawn.
    No because after goal difference, they use goals scored as a further differentiator so teams that were part of a 1-1 draw would be placed higher than those from a 0-0 draw. And of course since that would not separate the top two teams they then use yellow and red cards as the final differentiator. The team with the fewer cards being placed higher.

    That is how Denmark have qualified above Slovenia.
    You can also have a situation where every team wins once and loses twice. So again everybody ends up with 3 points, but there will then be more likely distinct goal differences / total goal scored.
    Is it possible to have twice as many losses as wins in a group?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    Interesting. I wonder whether you'd have thought that if he'd just exposed the illegal poisonings and covert illegalities perpetrated by the Russian state?
    He was not interested in exposing misdeeds by the Russian state, or anyone else other than the west. That's one of the issues with him and the early Wikileaks.

    But Wikileaks placed a family member of mine in a difficult position, and one that could have been very serious for him. So Assange (and the Guardian, who 'accidentally' leaked the full uncensored stuff) are certainly not the good guys IMO.

    (The family member was not doing anything illegal or even anything that was outside his job remit.)

    I sometimes get the impression from your posts that you think we're always the bad guys.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. I’m pretty sure that 5 points is the statistical minimum required to qualify top of a group of four teams.

    Surely 3 points. Everybody draws with everybody else in every match.
    Then no-one would be top, there would be lots drawn.
    No because after goal difference, they use goals scored as a further differentiator so teams that were part of a 1-1 draw would be placed higher than those from a 0-0 draw. And of course since that would not separate the top two teams they then use yellow and red cards as the final differentiator. The team with the fewer cards being placed higher.

    That is how Denmark have qualified above Slovenia.
    You can also have a situation where every team wins once and loses twice. So again everybody ends up with 3 points, but there will then be more likely distinct goal differences / total goal scored.
    You can’t because there are 4 tens and 6 matches

    You can have all teams winning 1, losing 1 and drawing 1. Which is would give all teams 4 points
    Yes you are right. Spot the person who hasn't been to bed for 3 days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
    The funny thing is that "I will not be silenced by a man" sounds like one of the things many Tories would ridicule if said by someone on the Left.
    Yes, she went very tokenistic in her response. He attacked her politics, she attacked his race and gender.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    MattW said:

    Interesting little interview on the New Statesman podcast with Andew Marr about Nigel Farage.

    "Nigel Farage has lost the Right."

    I quite like his phrases describing Mr Farage's "middle England" base (ignoring Farage's C2DE base).

    'Post-WW2 patriots' and "Chaps with claret coloured trousers wandering into model shops."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYW3khd5ro

    Lots of lefties like to wear non-boring colours in their clothing and have a hobby involving models.

    Those phrases are fine as long as they don't describe you inaccurately I guess.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    There are strong rumours that Russia is withdrawing troops from the area round Vovchansk, the town it partly captured in May during their attack in the Kahrkiv region. Also that they are taking troops from other parts of the frontline to strengthen the Kharkiv sector.

    Which would be odd, as part of the reason for the Kharkiv misadventure was to draw Ukrainian troops from the rest of the frontline.

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 26

    No more polls tonight presusumably. Anyone know please which we can expect tomorrow?

    Good to see you PfP, hope you are keeping well!

    What bets do you have for UK 2024?
    Thanks Double C ... your kind words are absolutely reciprocated on my part.
    I'm mainly on the spreads, selling the Blue team down from 160 seats and buying the reds up from 430 seats. Also a variety of fixed odds bets favouring large Labour majorities, etc.
    We haven't yet booked the Caribbean holiday yet but something rather better than a long weekend in Clacton is definitely in prospect!
    Where is your betting focused?
    Ah thanks PfP great to hear from you :smiley:

    Going to start betting this week hopefully, looking at Con seats >100, also very safe Con seats (eg 60%+ in 2019 vote) where there's a decent return eg 30-40%.

    That's my starting point.

    For all the other almost 40 or so countries that I follow, the UK election night is probably still genuinely my favourite.

    Good luck with your bets!
    If the polls currently have it right, then the betting value has ebbed away during the campaign, an example being that Tory seats on the spreads are down from around 160+ to the present level of circa 117 seats mid-spread. Of course there's still time for the Blue Team to have a late surge which has actually been the case in just about every G.E. over the last 30 years.

    Good luck with your POTUS betting DC. I'll be looking out for your predictions ... the first presumably whether Biden and/or Trump will actually be their respective parties' candidates?
    The idea that the Tories always have a late surge is one of politics enduring myths. Sure, they did in 1992, maybe 2029, Maybe also 2015, although that was more about the LibDem collapse. But not in 2017, or 2010, or 1997.
    Well, we all know why they didn’t in 2017 ;) Although you’re actually wrong, they did have an increase right at the end:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

    They did have a slight uptick at the end in 2010:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2010_United_Kingdom_general_election

    They also slightly increased in 1997 if you look at the graphs but the main reason the polls narrowed in the final 2 weeks is that Labour’s share dropped. The polls were also too high on Labour. Again the graph shows it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election


    So, no it’s not a myth and there’s no ‘maybe’ about the other ones. It’s a point of fact. Usually they have a last minute uptick as people return to the fold.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
    I did and you were wrong. Whatever happened to your family member, your claim that he only targets the West is clearly false given he has also targetted Chinese oppression in Tibet and corruption throughout the Arab world.

    I am sure there is lots of fall out from these sorts of exposures but that is no excuse for trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that our Government's are all lovely and acting in our best intersts. They aren't. We need more people like Assange not fewer.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Foxy said:

    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
    The funny thing is that "I will not be silenced by a man" sounds like one of the things many Tories would ridicule if said by someone on the Left.
    Yes, she went very tokenistic in her response. He attacked her politics, she attacked his race and gender.
    As I suggested yesterday, neither contribution was helpful. Someone asked if I’d actually heard what Tennant said and indeed I had. I thought it was heat of the moment and not the kind of language we need in this debate or any other. Imagine just how badly that would play if, god forbid, Badenoch were attacked. The words weren’t helpful.

    But neither were Badenoch’s and I’m afraid she is out of her depth and trying to appeal to a right-wing core membership. My friend Mishal shredded her on the Today programme, and it was good it came from her. The Conservative Party can hopefully do much better than Badenoch.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    edited June 26
    nico679 said:

    Aren’t we due another People Polling today .

    After last weeks drama which was clearly an outlier I wonder what that’s going to show .

    For no reason at all I was reminded of this....

    https://fr.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-domaindev-st_emea&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-st_emea&hspart=domaindev&p=Nod+nod+wink+wink+know+what+i+mean&type=dhm_A0JQ1_set_bfr__alt__ddc_srch_searchpulse_net#id=1&vid=2cba504beb04812178be79ebcfd1d013&action=click
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 26
    This really is a boring election. Feels more like a local election in terms of actual interest.

    Barely being discussed on the town social media.

    I think 2029 will be much more interesting and see lab, tory and libdem struggle to get 50% of the vote between them.

    Not as boring as England last night though.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. I’m pretty sure that 5 points is the statistical minimum required to qualify top of a group of four teams.

    Surely 3 points. Everybody draws with everybody else in every match.
    Then no-one would be top, there would be lots drawn.
    No, you can finish with 3 points and finish top. Just draw your games 10-10, and the others draw 0-0. Goals scored puts you top.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,250

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the
    case with regard to Sweden, he did us a
    service with wikileaks.
    m

    And the brave Russians working to overthrough Putin’s regime to at he identified - they were just unfortunate casualties?


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    MattW said:

    Interesting little interview on the New Statesman podcast with Andew Marr about Nigel Farage.

    "Nigel Farage has lost the Right."

    I quite like his phrases describing Mr Farage's "middle England" base (ignoring Farage's C2DE base).

    'Post-WW2 patriots' and "Chaps with claret coloured trousers wandering into model shops."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYW3khd5ro

    Lots of lefties like to wear non-boring colours in their clothing and have a hobby involving models.

    Those phrases are fine as long as they don't describe you inaccurately I guess.
    Sounds like you’re describing Mick Jagger, or James Hunt. Both famous for their flamboyant dress and a love of models.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 508

    This really is a boring election. Feels more like a local election in terms of actual interest.

    Barely being discussed on the town social media.

    I think 2029 will be much more interesting and see lab, tory and libdem struggle to get 50% of the vote between them.

    Not as boring as England last night though.

    I think that boring is the plan by the Tories. I'm expecting a low turnout out which will save a lot of Tory seats. 6 week campaign is far too long.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    DavidL said:

    Has a disconsolate Scot Nat got hold of the signal? I can't get the England game on.

    Someone trying to save you from yourself David
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
    I did and you were wrong. Whatever happened to your family member, your claim that he only targets the West is clearly false given he has also targetted Chinese oppression in Tibet and corruption throughout the Arab world.

    I am sure there is lots of fall out from these sorts of exposures but that is no excuse for trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that our Government's are all lovely and acting in our best intersts. They aren't. We need more people like Assange not fewer.
    The point is that he threw everything in in the meaning of openness. Good and bad (and whether something was 'good' or 'bad' depends on the viewpoint of the individual and country.

    Still, I'm glad to see the compassion you feel for my family member. I.e. none.

    The Guardian journalists should have been jailed, the shitting nasty wankers.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    Leon said:

    I might actually stop watching. It’s so dull

    I doubt this lot could beat a carpet
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    It appears that Visegrád 24, a Polish-Based Account with over a Million Followers who posts about the War in Ukraine and Israel has been Suspended for an Unknown Reason.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1805791410018193414

    The account is restored, but has (temporarily ?) lost its followers.

    Possibly a false DMCA takedown.
    There’s a big row going on in the US at the moment with regard to the CNN debate tomorrow night.

    CNN have pre-emptively written to Google asserting copyright on the broadcast, threatening to persue any Youtube commentators who are running comment or fact-check follow-along streams.

    Note that this isn’t just re-broadcasting the stream, which would be a DCMA violation, but adding commentary and criticism to it, which is considered fair use under the 1st Amendment.

    Fox News tried something similar a couple of years ago after the fact, getting commentary streams taken down afterwards, but backed down when the content producers threated to sue them.

    One such commentator has now gone to the considerable effort of intending to stream his show simultaneouly on YouTube, Rumble, and Twitter.

    The issue with Youtube is that their automated DCMA process will kill the stream first and ask questions later.

    Twitter have pre-emptively said this is definitely fair use, and they won’t be taking action against anyone running commentary on the debate.

    https://x.com/timcast/status/1805383637564616917?s=12
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1805402421595648220?s=12
    Does that mean I could rebroadcast (eg) a live F1 race if I added my own commentary ?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    This really is a boring election. Feels more like a local election in terms of actual interest.

    Barely being discussed on the town social media.

    I think 2029 will be much more interesting and see lab, tory and libdem struggle to get 50% of the vote between them.

    Not as boring as England last night though.

    I totally disagree with you and I do suspect you’re writing that because you are a tory.

    For those of us itching to see the tories booted out it has been the funniest and best campaign of our lives.

    There has never been a worse campaign run than that by the tories but the added spice came when Nigel Farage trumped Sunak and joined the race, causing massive disruption.

    And this tory wishcast about 2029 is one of the most feeble fantasies I’ve seen in my life. Do you still really not get it you lot, even now? You trashed your reputation for economic competence. You won’t suddenly recover that in 4 or 5 years. You are powerless for at least a decade and probably a generation. Get used to it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the
    case with regard to Sweden, he did us a
    service with wikileaks.
    m

    And the brave Russians working to overthrough Putin’s regime to at he identified - they were just unfortunate casualties?
    Yeah, Richard doesn't care for them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    M. B, my understanding is these are just live reaction/commentary videos not showing the live footage. Could be wrong, though.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the
    case with regard to Sweden, he did us a
    service with wikileaks.
    m

    And the brave Russians working to overthrough Putin’s regime to at he identified - they were just unfortunate casualties?

    Assange famously said that Russia didn't need a Wikileaks, since their open society tolerated people like Navalny.

    Not a very smart guy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    NEW THREAD

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,153
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    It appears that Visegrád 24, a Polish-Based Account with over a Million Followers who posts about the War in Ukraine and Israel has been Suspended for an Unknown Reason.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1805791410018193414

    The account is restored, but has (temporarily ?) lost its followers.

    Possibly a false DMCA takedown.
    There’s a big row going on in the US at the moment with regard to the CNN debate tomorrow night.

    CNN have pre-emptively written to Google asserting copyright on the broadcast, threatening to persue any Youtube commentators who are running comment or fact-check follow-along streams.

    Note that this isn’t just re-broadcasting the stream, which would be a DCMA violation, but adding commentary and criticism to it, which is considered fair use under the 1st Amendment.

    Fox News tried something similar a couple of years ago after the fact, getting commentary streams taken down afterwards, but backed down when the content producers threated to sue them.

    One such commentator has now gone to the considerable effort of intending to stream his show simultaneouly on YouTube, Rumble, and Twitter.

    The issue with Youtube is that their automated DCMA process will kill the stream first and ask questions later.

    Twitter have pre-emptively said this is definitely fair use, and they won’t be taking action against anyone running commentary on the debate.

    https://x.com/timcast/status/1805383637564616917?s=12
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1805402421595648220?s=12
    Does that mean I could rebroadcast (eg) a live F1 race if I added my own commentary ?
    This sounds like CNN pushing it too far for a political debate imo.

    I think the more interesting thing is whether Mr Trump runs away, as I am expecting - and what they do instead? Hopefully a Tub of Lard or a Humpty-Trumpty (unlikely) or Donald Shmuck puppet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
    I did and you were wrong. Whatever happened to your family member, your claim that he only targets the West is clearly false given he has also targetted Chinese oppression in Tibet and corruption throughout the Arab world.

    I am sure there is lots of fall out from these sorts of exposures but that is no excuse for trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that our Government's are all lovely and acting in our best intersts. They aren't. We need more people like Assange not fewer.
    I've a degree if sympathy with that view, but I've also considerable sympathy with the view that he was completely irresponsible in the choices he made regarding the data he released.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
    I did and you were wrong. Whatever happened to your family member, your claim that he only targets the West is clearly false given he has also targetted Chinese oppression in Tibet and corruption throughout the Arab world.

    I am sure there is lots of fall out from these sorts of exposures but that is no excuse for trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that our Government's are all lovely and acting in our best intersts. They aren't. We need more people like Assange not fewer.
    The point is that he threw everything in in the meaning of openness. Good and bad (and whether something was 'good' or 'bad' depends on the viewpoint of the individual and country.

    Still, I'm glad to see the compassion you feel for my family member. I.e. none.

    The Guardian journalists should have been jailed, the shitting nasty wankers.
    Given that the US thought that their helicopter gunship pilots were the good guys murdering Iraqi civilians, who is to decide good and bad? Governments cover shit up. They are not our friends and they are not on our side. None of them. Someone needs to expose it.

    Assange is certainly no hero in himself and should have been on trial in Sweden for the alleged rapes, but that doesn't detract from the good wikileaks did exposing the sorts of corruption and crime in office up to and including murder that you seem happy to ignore.

    And I have no need to feel compassion for your family member because I don't know them, have no details from you of what happened to them and only have the word of an anonymous poster on a website that something bad happened to them. I do know that the US military murdered civilians, that the Kenyan police murdered opponents, that the government of the Turks and Caicos islands was thoroughly corrupt. I know the details of those things thanks to Wikileaks.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
    The funny thing is that "I will not be silenced by a man" sounds like one of the things many Tories would ridicule if said by someone on the Left.
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    Well the Tories have lost the Whovian vote.

    Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row

    Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/

    "Don't you think she looks tired"
    No.
    The funny thing is that "I will not be silenced by a man" sounds like one of the things many Tories would ridicule if said by someone on the Left.
    And if Tennant had told a Real Black Woman* to “shut up” and “not exist anymore” he would have be cancelled. To the point of episodes he appears in being withdrawn from broadcast.

    *to certain people, you can only be a remember of a minority group if you hold the right beliefs.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708


    But Wikileaks placed a family member of mine in a difficult position, and one that could have been very serious for him. So Assange (and the Guardian, who 'accidentally' leaked the full uncensored stuff) are certainly not the good guys IMO.

    I don't think the "accidentally" there needs scare quotes? The way the whole unredacted dump got leaked involved grandstanding and idiocy by everyone involved and made both Assange and the Guardian guy look like total chumps. If they'd wanted to leak it they could have just leaked it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    A reminder that when he jumped bail, he was trying to avoid extradition to Sweden on rape charges. It wasn’t until some time after he’d fled that the US changed its mind and started pursuing him.

    Hilariously, had he been extradited to Sweden he would actually have been much safer from the US. Although he would almost certainly have been locked up for those rapes he committed, of course.
    No issue with that. I just don't agree with the biblically punitive approach the US takes to justice, and I detest their inhumane jails.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587


    But Wikileaks placed a family member of mine in a difficult position, and one that could have been very serious for him. So Assange (and the Guardian, who 'accidentally' leaked the full uncensored stuff) are certainly not the good guys IMO.

    I don't think the "accidentally" there needs scare quotes? The way the whole unredacted dump got leaked involved grandstanding and idiocy by everyone involved and made both Assange and the Guardian guy look like total chumps. If they'd wanted to leak it they could have just leaked it.
    Nah, I've zero doubt they did it deliberately.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 26
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    It appears that Visegrád 24, a Polish-Based Account with over a Million Followers who posts about the War in Ukraine and Israel has been Suspended for an Unknown Reason.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1805791410018193414

    The account is restored, but has (temporarily ?) lost its followers.

    Possibly a false DMCA takedown.
    There’s a big row going on in the US at the moment with regard to the CNN debate tomorrow night.

    CNN have pre-emptively written to Google asserting copyright on the broadcast, threatening to persue any Youtube commentators who are running comment or fact-check follow-along streams.

    Note that this isn’t just re-broadcasting the stream, which would be a DCMA violation, but adding commentary and criticism to it, which is considered fair use under the 1st Amendment.

    Fox News tried something similar a couple of years ago after the fact, getting commentary streams taken down afterwards, but backed down when the content producers threated to sue them.

    One such commentator has now gone to the considerable effort of intending to stream his show simultaneouly on YouTube, Rumble, and Twitter.

    The issue with Youtube is that their automated DCMA process will kill the stream first and ask questions later.

    Twitter have pre-emptively said this is definitely fair use, and they won’t be taking action against anyone running commentary on the debate.

    https://x.com/timcast/status/1805383637564616917?s=12
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1805402421595648220?s=12
    Does that mean I could rebroadcast (eg) a live F1 race if I added my own commentary ?
    If you’re in the USA, and you’re actually making critique of what’s happening in the race, and the F1 race is in a corner of the screen rather than full-screen, and you’re prepared to go to court against F1, and persuade Youtube not to take it down when F1 tells them to, then possibly. Some people do do this but without the race on screen, and a radio commentary in the background.

    This is Timcast’s video from the GOP debate a few months ago, as an example of how political commentators use this. He has five talking heads on screen, discussing what’s happening on the screen in front of them. 350,000 views.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pggv7h7FQ6s (it’s two hours long, so randomly scan to the middle somewhere).
    Note that their source is a stream on Rumble, rather than a stream directly from Fox News which was the broadcaster for this event.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    nico679 said:

    Starmer will be very annoyed that he can no longer use the betting issue as a stick to beat the Tories with . As soon as one Labour candidate was implicated admittedly for a different type of bet the public might view it as a plague on both houses .

    He will of course though highlight his swift action versus Sunaks obfuscation.

    I don’t see it making much difference to the polling.

    I don't think he'll want to. Like all campaigns it needs time to digest. I also doubt very much that most people will see the betting cases as similar. A flutter on yourself losing sounded quite cute
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm still confused by the Assange developments. Why did the US suddenly change its mind about him?

    "Suddenly" is an odd term in the context of a plea deal.

    You need to be absolutely gung-ho about it until the moment the deal is sealed. You cannot say, "well, we think he's guilty of all sorts but may change our mind". You're either all in or all out.

    None of this is very surprising. It's all very old news, very expensive, and with some risk of failing to obtain a convictions. This way, they have a conviction, albeit limited, and the costs stop.
    Part of the deal was that Assange got Willian's to destroy the documents.

    Also five years 'time served' is not nothing.

    The deterrent effect is preserved fir all but the most determined leakers - who would be unlikely to be further deterred anyway, were Assange to have gone to trial.
    I hold no candle for Assange but I can't blame him for hiding away in that embassy.

    If he'd been extradited to a US court on all the charges he faced he'd have got something ludicrous like 300 years and spent the rest of his life in a very horrible US prison.
    And he'd deserve it.
    For exposing the US military murdering civilians? For embarrasiing governments and showing what duplicitous bastards they are? Or maybe you are upset about him exposing corruption in teh Turks and Caicos islands or revealing Kenyan police murdering civilians?

    No he wouldn't deserve it. Whatever the case with regard to Sweden, he did us a service with wikileaks.
    Please read my later post.
    I did and you were wrong. Whatever happened to your family member, your claim that he only targets the West is clearly false given he has also targetted Chinese oppression in Tibet and corruption throughout the Arab world.

    I am sure there is lots of fall out from these sorts of exposures but that is no excuse for trying to sweep it under the carpet and pretend that our Government's are all lovely and acting in our best intersts. They aren't. We need more people like Assange not fewer.
    The point is that he threw everything in in the meaning of openness. Good and bad (and whether something was 'good' or 'bad' depends on the viewpoint of the individual and country.

    Still, I'm glad to see the compassion you feel for my family member. I.e. none.

    The Guardian journalists should have been jailed, the shitting nasty wankers.
    Given that the US thought that their helicopter gunship pilots were the good guys murdering Iraqi civilians, who is to decide good and bad? Governments cover shit up. They are not our friends and they are not on our side. None of them. Someone needs to expose it.

    Assange is certainly no hero in himself and should have been on trial in Sweden for the alleged rapes, but that doesn't detract from the good wikileaks did exposing the sorts of corruption and crime in office up to and including murder that you seem happy to ignore.

    And I have no need to feel compassion for your family member because I don't know them, have no details from you of what happened to them and only have the word of an anonymous poster on a website that something bad happened to them. I do know that the US military murdered civilians, that the Kenyan police murdered opponents, that the government of the Turks and Caicos islands was thoroughly corrupt. I know the details of those things thanks to Wikileaks.
    Gee, thanks. I am not lying about what I'm saying; I'm just not going to mention *what* it is for the obvious reasons. As for my being anonymous: I'm only partially anonymous. I've revealed enough information on here for a shitty poster to mention the name of the school my son goes to.

    If you want to know more, I can tell you via PM.

    I think my point is this: there were some nuggets in Wikileaks that were important. There were also many, many things that were not. Releasing the whole kaboodle, and not just the important things, hurt lots of people, directly and indirectly. It also severely hurt the west's intelligence services. The good effects (exposing western wrongdoing) could have been obtained without the bad effects.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Sandpit said:

    Morning all. I’m pretty sure that 5 points is the statistical minimum required to qualify top of a group of four teams.

    Surely 3 points? Every team draws with every other team, all teams end up on 3 points. Ends up being determined by goals scored. (By definition GD will be 0 across all 4 teams)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    It appears that Visegrád 24, a Polish-Based Account with over a Million Followers who posts about the War in Ukraine and Israel has been Suspended for an Unknown Reason.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1805791410018193414

    The account is restored, but has (temporarily ?) lost its followers.

    Possibly a false DMCA takedown.
    There’s a big row going on in the US at the moment with regard to the CNN debate tomorrow night.

    CNN have pre-emptively written to Google asserting copyright on the broadcast, threatening to persue any Youtube commentators who are running comment or fact-check follow-along streams.

    Note that this isn’t just re-broadcasting the stream, which would be a DCMA violation, but adding commentary and criticism to it, which is considered fair use under the 1st Amendment.

    Fox News tried something similar a couple of years ago after the fact, getting commentary streams taken down afterwards, but backed down when the content producers threated to sue them.

    One such commentator has now gone to the considerable effort of intending to stream his show simultaneouly on YouTube, Rumble, and Twitter.

    The issue with Youtube is that their automated DCMA process will kill the stream first and ask questions later.

    Twitter have pre-emptively said this is definitely fair use, and they won’t be taking action against anyone running commentary on the debate.

    https://x.com/timcast/status/1805383637564616917?s=12
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1805402421595648220?s=12
    How can CNN claim that a load of talking heads debating the debate images isn't transformative?
    I think it involves lawyers. Justice is trial by combat, and the one with the biggest lawyer wins.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    viewcode said:

    I apologise for being grumpy and ramping rubbish. My mum attacked Wilbur hard with a cushion he flew in the air, and there’s been a big bust up, and I hadn’t calmed down and wasn’t concentrating properly
    This should make up for how I really see it

    https://news.sky.com/story/scale-of-gambling-scandal-for-tories-is-different-magnitude-to-labours-issue-13158755

    I’m now literally going to sleep outside in a sty

    Who or what is Wilbur please?
    I’ve got a mini pig! Wilbur. 🐷 He’s got a happy playful temperament. He’s got better ball control than the England football team. I’m currently house training him, but he also has a big run outside with bushes to snork through and a large den out there with blankets in. He got tubes and chews. I can hosepipe him and one end of his mud. And I will take him foraging when I am sure he won’t run off and hide.

    She hit him because she don’t like him anyway. She said he snouted her, but he was only being friendly!
    She’s upset him cause hardly he’s grunting as much now when I cuddle him, and his head is down. He’s never known violence towards him before. Mini pigs are social animals, when they snout you it’s becuase they are being friendly needing social interaction. I think she hurt his snout because he’s started sneezing.

    I’ve chosen not to go on holiday this year. I had a very bad autumn, and moved from London to Yorkshire, which is why I didn’t post for months. But most people in PB have done relationship breakdowns. Explanation starts with “it’s complicated” and we leave it there and move on.

    I’m now literally going to live outside in a sty.
This discussion has been closed.