Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.
It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
London and Paris are boring?
Wow. Just wow.
I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.
It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.
You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.
They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
So, where on earth has that come from?
There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading
There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are
I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
I passed one at the weekend, a customer was getting the "flames in the earhole" treatment.
Turkish barbers aren't money laundering. The young men if today just get way more treatment such as perms etc. They spend more money on their looks than before. (Also there are many more people)
When do they get these treatments? The places always seem empty.
But their overheads are presumably low since most of the money can go to their own labour.
I get my hair cut regularly at one of these barbers, don't go for any of the frilly extras just a plain clipper cut. £10 for about 6 minutes work, if he does five of them in an hour that's £50 an hour takings even if its empty half the time.
Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.
It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
London and Paris are boring?
Wow. Just wow.
I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.
It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.
You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.
They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
So, where on earth has that come from?
There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading
There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are
I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
They're certainly cheap. You can have a haircut for £7 at some of them.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
Unless they recognise that being a penniless non white foreigner in Rwanda is as attractive a prospect as Auschwitz Birkenau. Which it probably is.
Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.
It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
London and Paris are boring?
Wow. Just wow.
I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.
It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.
You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.
They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
So, where on earth has that come from?
There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading
There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are
I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
They're certainly cheap. You can have a haircut for £7 at some of them.
Think my last cut was £12. I make them work for it though, as it was two years since my previous cut.
Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.
It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
London and Paris are boring?
Wow. Just wow.
I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.
It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.
You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.
They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
So, where on earth has that come from?
There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading
There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are
I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
They're certainly cheap. You can have a haircut for £7 at some of them.
I’m getting mine cut for £24 today. Doubled in price since Covid. And they only take cards. So not money laundering in their case.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Have you ever been to Barnsley?
(A few years ago I unearthed a canal tourism guide for canoeists, written c. 1880. It waxed lyrical about the scenery of the Barnsley Canal, suggesting it might be the most picturesque in Britain. You wouldn't believe it now.)
Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.
It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
London and Paris are boring?
Wow. Just wow.
I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.
It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.
You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.
They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
So, where on earth has that come from?
There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading
There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are
I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
They're certainly cheap. You can have a haircut for £7 at some of them.
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Paula Vennells was up at the @PostOffInquiry for three days. Gareth Jenkins is up for four.
- Known as the 'architect' of Horizon. - Used as an expert witness in court. - Appearance has been postponed twice. - Mentioned every day at the inquiry.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
It's not logic (I've pointed that out already) and this is not Australia.
You can't throw a far-right authoritarian bone to avoid far-right anti-egalitarian authoritarianism in the form of you and Nigel Farage. Give people like you an inch, as history shows, you take a mile.
Breaking news. Someone has thrown a 99 with extra chocolate sauce on Farage in Uxbridge. He needs some new Pr now as things have gone a bit quiet. Not really by the way.
Not seen this so it may be flake news. 99s to cost 99p is in someone's manifesto. Is it Mr Binface? FWIW I agree with this policy.
Yep - that's in Binface's manifesto.
If he is equally sound on debt, deficit, tax, spend, defence, NHS, welfare, social care, climate change, industrial policy housing and transport I think he'll form the next government. At the moment he has this entire field to himself.
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.
Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.
I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.
(not advice, do your own research etc...)
NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
Doesn't Nick Palmer Who Know Of What He Talks put the personal premium at about 1000 votes?
In 1992 Broxtowe had a Tory majority of 9,800. In 2010, with a similar national result, the Tory majority was 389. There wasn't any significant boundary change that I can remember, though the LibDems were squeezed from 22.1% to 16.9%. So I think that a personal vote of 5,000+ is possible (Jim Lester undoubtedly had a personal vote too), but it takes a lot of time to develop. Coming in from nowhere I think the limit is proably 1000 unless one has prior name recognition.
A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.
I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.
It is.
Though it would have been even better if he had accurately described what the Equality Act says. There is no concept of "safe spaces" in the Act. Spaces can be single sex for a variety of reasons of which safety is only one: privacy is another. There are others.
If he - and other Labour politicians (Philippson is another) - cannot describe the existing law accurately, they are not going to be able to resolve the clash of rights which exists. The problem has been badly exacerbated by lobby groups deliberately misdescribing the law. Politicians who seek to address this should not make the same mistake.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Have you ever been to Barnsley?
(A few years ago I unearthed a canal tourism guide for canoeists, written c. 1880. It waxed lyrical about the scenery of the Barnsley Canal, suggesting it might be the most picturesque in Britain. You wouldn't believe it now.)
I have been to Barnsley. Got totally drenched watching the Toon get beat 4-0.
Those were the days.
I'm on my way to That London right now. Not visiting my former W5 manor this time, just in The City with the red braces crowd.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Likely at this point a choice between a Nigel Farage type or a Tommy Robinson type. Which is preferable.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Have you ever been to Barnsley?
(A few years ago I unearthed a canal tourism guide for canoeists, written c. 1880. It waxed lyrical about the scenery of the Barnsley Canal, suggesting it might be the most picturesque in Britain. You wouldn't believe it now.)
Some of Barnsley isn't that terrible, although I think their plan to sell themselves as the new Tuscany was a bit of a stretch.
Liking those explanations, but I can't provide any further enlightenment.
I recall, at my school, the term 'spaz' was used for a while, which the teachers rightly clamped down on, being of course derived from spastic and wholly inappropriate and offensive as a derogatory term. Around that time, the Spastics Society renamed themselves to Scope and some enterprising lad started shouting 'scope!' instead of 'spaz!'. As far as I recall, the teachers gave up at that point.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
What rightwards surge across the world?
We aren't a European PR-based country.
Looking at comparable Common Law countries using the Westminster system, I see no rightwards surge to the extreme right.
In Canada, Trudeau looks like losing to the Conservatives, but its regular pendulum swings and time for a change, not the extreme right taking charge.
In Australia, the extreme right One Nation Party is still an insignificant dot in its polling and its the Liberal/National Coalition that represents the right as it has done for the past century.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
It's not logic (I've pointed that out already) and this is not Australia.
You can't throw a far-right authoritarian bone to avoid far-right anti-egalitarian authoritarianism in the form of you and Nigel Farage. Give people like you an inch, as history shows, you take a mile.
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
I invented it a few weeks ago (on my prior visit to Brittany as it happens). It’s derived from numinous - the sense of the spiritual, the nape tingle of divinity and/or sublimity - but it specifically refers to sense of this in place. In a location. Some places have lots of noom, some have none (we discussed how French churches often lack it). Noom can be found in landscapes as much as buildings, in caves as much as stone circles, in factories and wastelands as much as palaces and towers
There are different kinds of noom. Dark noom is somewhere that has that nape-tingle for bad reasons. First World War battlefields. Anything to do with the Nazis. Tuol Sleng
Bright noom is good noom. The sense of uncanny beauty that lifts the soul (often you don’t know why)
The noomiest places often combine both. Take St Kilda, breathtakingly spectacular and filled with spiritual loveliness - bright noom - but it also has dark noom. That unique bizarre community which was tragically destroyed by Victorian priests and advancing modernity
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
Living in Sussex gardens and walking through Hyde Park each day must have numbed my senses or perhaps I was being driven in an ambulence.....now if you were walking down Kings Road from Sloane Square to Jubilee Place or along Old Compton Street to Covent Garden.....
So Le Palais in Belle Ile is yet ANOTHER lovely French small town. With a magnificent Vauban citadel
That said I’ve been doing some research and discovered that - contra my instincts - Brittany is not poor. It is one of the richest regions of France. And the favoured coasts and islands are seriously rich - partly due to the influx of wealthy Parisians and other domestic tourists
Hence the gorgeous roundabouts
Sad for France that if you come in by ferry or tunnel your first sight of France is the worst part of it the nord pas de calais region.
Liking those explanations, but I can't provide any further enlightenment.
I recall, at my school, the term 'spaz' was used for a while, which the teachers rightly clamped down on, being of course derived from spastic and wholly inappropriate and offensive as a derogatory term. Around that time, the Spastics Society renamed themselves to Scope and some enterprising lad started shouting 'scope!' instead of 'spaz!'. As far as I recall, the teachers gave up at that point.
My Russian teacher, Miss Collinson, used to get very angry when she heard us use the word 'flid'
Apparently it was first used to describe people born disabled by thalidomide
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
Short for numinous - a sense of wonder, an atmosphere of place etc. Leon is now so fagged out by having to use ChatGPT for writing bland travel reports he can't even use three syllables when one will get the job done.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Have you ever been to Barnsley?
(A few years ago I unearthed a canal tourism guide for canoeists, written c. 1880. It waxed lyrical about the scenery of the Barnsley Canal, suggesting it might be the most picturesque in Britain. You wouldn't believe it now.)
I have been to Barnsley. Got totally drenched watching the Toon get beat 4-0.
Those were the days.
I'm on my way to That London right now. Not visiting my former W5 manor this time, just in The City with the red braces crowd.
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Case closed.
I thought countryside was the assassination of Piers Morgan? (A Stephen Fry joke)
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.
Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.
I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.
(not advice, do your own research etc...)
NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
Doesn't Nick Palmer Who Know Of What He Talks put the personal premium at about 1000 votes?
In 1992 Broxtowe had a Tory majority of 9,800. In 2010, with a similar national result, the Tory majority was 389. There wasn't any significant boundary change that I can remember, though the LibDems were squeezed from 22.1% to 16.9%. So I think that a personal vote of 5,000+ is possible (Jim Lester undoubtedly had a personal vote too), but it takes a lot of time to develop. Coming in from nowhere I think the limit is proably 1000 unless one has prior name recognition.
Good morning Nick.
How did new housing affect the demographics over that period?
(Comparing to change in the Nottingham end of Ashfield aka Hucknall).
Do you think the building of the tramways was an important factor?
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
Yes, women. They are less likely to be enamoured of rancid right populists (who are often highly and transparently sexist). It's a factor I'm hoping plays a big part in the US in November.
"OMG, Trump's lost and it wasn't even that close. WTF went on there?"
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
Breaking news. Someone has thrown a 99 with extra chocolate sauce on Farage in Uxbridge. He needs some new Pr now as things have gone a bit quiet. Not really by the way.
Not seen this so it may be flake news. 99s to cost 99p is in someone's manifesto. Is it Mr Binface? FWIW I agree with this policy.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
It's one of the big wins of this election for me. The canning of that abysmal Rwanda scheme.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
It makes me glad that we Brits are better than the French, not for the first time.
The election is going to get about 0 Reform MPs elected, not hundreds.
Breaking news. Someone has thrown a 99 with extra chocolate sauce on Farage in Uxbridge. He needs some new Pr now as things have gone a bit quiet. Not really by the way.
Not seen this so it may be flake news. 99s to cost 99p is in someone's manifesto. Is it Mr Binface? FWIW I agree with this policy.
Paula Vennells was up at the @PostOffInquiry for three days. Gareth Jenkins is up for four.
- Known as the 'architect' of Horizon. - Used as an expert witness in court. - Appearance has been postponed twice. - Mentioned every day at the inquiry.
It makes some very sharp criticisms which we would do well to pay heed to.
It's not entirely accurate.
This, for example: ..In other words, the software and its developers were deemed innocent until proven guilty, while those facing prosecution were treated as guilty unless they could prove their innocence...
The point about the legal status of computer evidence has been regularly discussed on PB. The law in question is about computer evidence rather than the guilt or innocence of software developers (or indeed the PO workers being prosecuted).
Under English Common law, long before computers existed, courts assumed that mechanical systems were functioning correctly unless it was shown otherwise.
The Police & Criminal Evidence Act of 1984 changed this presumption regarding computer evidence: Evidence from computer records (1) In any proceedings, a statement in a document produced by a computer shall not be admissible as evidence of any fact stated therein unless it is shown— (a) that there are no reasonable grounds for believing that the statement is inaccurate because of improper use of the computer;, (b) that at all material times the computer was operating properly, or if not, that any respect in which it was not operating properly or was out of operation was not such as to affect the production of the document or the accuracy of its contents; and (c) that any relevant conditions specified in rules of court under subsection (2) below are satisfied...
The Criminal Evidence Act of 1999 repealed this section of the Act, so the Common Law presumption returned.
While it might be true to say that in prosecution which rely on computer evidence, the burden of proof is reversed, the standard of proof for the defence in challenging computer evidence is not (as it is for the prosecution) "beyond reasonable doubt". The defence need only introduce evidence that the computer might not be reliable.
Of course, in the PO case it was almost impossible for the postmasters to produce such evidence at the time of their prosecutions - and once they had been declared guilty, the evidentiary hurdles for them to challenge convictions were much higher.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
Leon you were talking about how nice rural France was yesterday and contrasting that with their desire to elect Le Pe. But the real problem is in the cities. You said yourself Paris has gone rapidly downhill and Marseilles is one of the most dangerous cities in Europe. Fly into Paris CDG and looking at the staff you would think you had flown into Africa.
I’m close to where I thought I’d be, a little bit further right economically than expected.
Interesting, thanks - nice to do a more UK-focused compass. On the US one I come out as a raving left-winger!
I'm quite close to you, but apparently slightly more left and less progressive - slap bang on the economic centre line and 2/3 the way up the first square above the centre line on the progressive axis.
Tactical Lab vote from me this election (not that it's likely needed) but puts me very close to the LD position. Pretty much where I would have put myself (although maybe I'd say slightly more progressive - I think that's because I didn't give very strong responses to many questions) if I was just pointing at the chart without doing the questions.
ETA: As they have positioned the parties based on stated policies, it would be fascinating to see their party positioning on this over past elections and the position of the winning party.
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Case closed.
I thought countryside was the assassination of Piers Morgan? (A Stephen Fry joke)
Interesting - I thought it was from the Uxbridge English Dictionary.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
What rightwards surge across the world?
We aren't a European PR-based country.
Looking at comparable Common Law countries using the Westminster system, I see no rightwards surge to the extreme right.
In Canada, Trudeau looks like losing to the Conservatives, but its regular pendulum swings and time for a change, not the extreme right taking charge.
In Australia, the extreme right One Nation Party is still an insignificant dot in its polling and its the Liberal/National Coalition that represents the right as it has done for the past century.
You are seeing what you want to see.
I'm still struggling with this anachronistic use of terms "left" and "right". Trying to use 20th century political labelling to describe 21st century political movements and ideologies is ridiculous. The battle of the individual versus the State which was much of the 20th century has evolved with technology - we are more individual and yet the mechanisms to manage and control that unprecdented access to information are legion.
Even terms like "conservative", "socialist", "liberal" and "social democrat" don't have the meaning they once did. "Green" for example has had its meaning so distorted as to be worthless as a political term.
How then do we define politics in the 21st century? The fault lines currently seem to be cultural and national in terms of national identities in a global economy. We then have the climate change faultline, the deniers, the absolutists and the vast majority somewhere between who know something bad is coming but are hoping human ingenuity will mitigate the worst of it (as it did with Covid-19). Another line is information - who owns it, who controls access to it, how do we ensure more people can get to that information.
We already know information is the currency of the future - are we going to treat it like the currency of the past or are we going to look at it differently?
For me, and this is a trite way of looking at it, I'd prefer we concentrate on the freedom FROM than the freedom TO.
Just seen this on X. Is something happening out there.
Watched farage on YouTube at Kent this morning and Devon tonight Yotally different unscripted and treated rightly like a rock star by the huge outdoor audiences Anyone who criticises should watch and observe a real leader particularly sunak.starmer and their little lapdog davey and they should see for themselves why millions will vote @reformparty_uk and why @Nigel_Farage should be our pm 9:03 PM · Jun 24, 2024 · 22.9K Views
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
It makes me glad that we Brits are better than the French, not for the first time.
The election is going to get about 0 Reform MPs elected, not hundreds.
A lot to be said for the French in this respect. I was talking to someone who said its very easy to get a protest going in France. By contrast the british would likely sit on their asses and moan.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
It's not logic (I've pointed that out already) and this is not Australia.
You can't throw a far-right authoritarian bone to avoid far-right anti-egalitarian authoritarianism in the form of you and Nigel Farage. Give people like you an inch, as history shows, you take a mile.
I’ve just been to maybe the most beautiful church I’ve ever visited in France. And I have visited a lot of French churches
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
Leon could you explain to me what noom means? I must have missed the initial discussion about it and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
I invented it a few weeks ago (on my prior visit to Brittany as it happens). It’s derived from numinous - the sense of the spiritual, the nape tingle of divinity and/or sublimity - but it specifically refers to sense of this in place. In a location. Some places have lots of noom, some have none (we discussed how French churches often lack it). Noom can be found in landscapes as much as buildings, in caves as much as stone circles, in factories and wastelands as much as palaces and towers
There are different kinds of noom. Dark noom is somewhere that has that nape-tingle for bad reasons. First World War battlefields. Anything to do with the Nazis. Tuol Sleng
Bright noom is good noom. The sense of uncanny beauty that lifts the soul (often you don’t know why)
The noomiest places often combine both. Take St Kilda, breathtakingly spectacular and filled with spiritual loveliness - bright noom - but it also has dark noom. That unique bizarre community which was tragically destroyed by Victorian priests and advancing modernity
@Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
True. I don't live there but it is the greatest city in the world, but not because of the way it looks, which is frequently awful.
The square mile of the City of London remains one of the most magical places on earth, despite all the attempts to trash it. The rest of London mostly teeters between ghastly set piece stuff (Buckingham Palace etc) and a squalor which feels carefully deliberated. I wonder how the late Ian Nairn would write his old Penguin 'Nairn's London' now?
If you've never felt emotionally moved in Hyde Park or Kensington Gardens on a warm summer evening you were probably being driven through in an ambulance. Ditto Waterlow and Greenwich Parks.
London has parks. The rest of the country has countryside.
Case closed.
I thought countryside was the assassination of Piers Morgan? (A Stephen Fry joke)
It reminds me of the chaps in the back bar of their club.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
Leon you were talking about how nice rural France was yesterday and contrasting that with their desire to elect Le Pe. But the real problem is in the cities. You said yourself Paris has gone rapidly downhill and Marseilles is one of the most dangerous cities in Europe. Fly into Paris CDG and looking at the staff you would think you had flown into Africa.
Yes I think you’re right
I was tending to the @TimS theory (which I’ve shared for a while) that despite their good fortune the French are imbued with pessimism - due to declining French power - mainly cultural rather than political (within living memory French still had a chance of being the world language). A vote for Le Pen is a vote from pessimism
However I’ve adapted my theory. It is partly the above but also this: The French KNOW they are lucky and live in a beautiful country with a high quality of life - a vote for Le Pen is a vote to protect this. They can see what has happened to Paris and Marseilles and they really don’t want that in Vannes and Quimper, in Bayonne and Biarritz, in Mende and Menton
It’s clearly ethnocentric and xenophobic but a lot of French people have no problem with that
I’m close to where I thought I’d be, a little bit further right economically than expected.
Interesting, thanks - nice to do a more UK-focused compass. On the US one I come out as a raving left-winger!
I'm quite close to you, but apparently slightly more left and less progressive - slap bang on the economic centre line and 2/3 the way up the first square above the centre line on the progressive axis.
Tactical Lab vote from me this election (not that it's likely needed) but puts me very close to the LD position. Pretty much where I would have put myself (although maybe I'd say slightly more progressive - I think that's because I didn't give very strong responses to many questions) if I was just pointing at the chart without doing the questions.
ETA: As they have positioned the parties based on stated policies, it would be fascinating to see their party positioning on this over past elections and the position of the winning party.
Another gift for Starmer ahead of the final debate…
Always too little too late. #zeroseats
Betting question; if a candidate is elected but has been suspended from their party (these are not the only cases) do they count as (in this case) Conservative or Independent?
I will post today's image now ready for 8:15 tonight when I will quote it.
Let's be honest, it's all gone to shit since Southgate started dressing down a bit. If he smartens up as in the picture then we're nailed on Euro24 winners
Another gift for Starmer ahead of the final debate…
Always too little too late. #zeroseats
Betting question; if a candidate is elected but has been suspended from their party (these are not the only cases) do they count as (in this case) Conservative or Independent?
Conservative as that is what appears on the ballot
That's a 12.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% from the Conservatives to Plaid and an 8% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
A quick glance suggests one seat in Wales at most - possibly a 1997 style wipeout for the Conservatives when they polled 19.6% and lost all eight seats being defended.
Another gift for Starmer ahead of the final debate…
Once again stealing worse defeat from the jaws of normal defeat.
I think they might have been better off simply owning it as Farage did with his Russia comments, capitulation after a lengthy water torture period is the worst of all worlds.
I’m close to where I thought I’d be, a little bit further right economically than expected.
Interesting, thanks - nice to do a more UK-focused compass. On the US one I come out as a raving left-winger!
I'm quite close to you, but apparently slightly more left and less progressive - slap bang on the economic centre line and 2/3 the way up the first square above the centre line on the progressive axis.
Tactical Lab vote from me this election (not that it's likely needed) but puts me very close to the LD position. Pretty much where I would have put myself (although maybe I'd say slightly more progressive - I think that's because I didn't give very strong responses to many questions) if I was just pointing at the chart without doing the questions.
ETA: As they have positioned the parties based on stated policies, it would be fascinating to see their party positioning on this over past elections and the position of the winning party.
Just seen this on X. Is something happening out there.
Watched farage on YouTube at Kent this morning and Devon tonight Yotally different unscripted and treated rightly like a rock star by the huge outdoor audiences Anyone who criticises should watch and observe a real leader particularly sunak.starmer and their little lapdog davey and they should see for themselves why millions will vote @reformparty_uk and why @Nigel_Farage should be our pm 9:03 PM · Jun 24, 2024 · 22.9K Views
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
1. Logic
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Well the big test will be next week. If Labour win the public don't agree with you. If the Tories win then the Rwanda idea will have been saved and embraced by the great British public
Yeah no we all know that’s not true
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
Leon you were talking about how nice rural France was yesterday and contrasting that with their desire to elect Le Pe. But the real problem is in the cities. You said yourself Paris has gone rapidly downhill and Marseilles is one of the most dangerous cities in Europe. Fly into Paris CDG and looking at the staff you would think you had flown into Africa.
Yes I think you’re right
I was tending to the @TimS theory (which I’ve shared for a while) that despite their good fortune the French are imbued with pessimism - due to declining French power - mainly cultural rather than political (within living memory French still had a chance of being the world language). A vote for Le Pen is a vote from pessimism
However I’ve adapted my theory. It is partly the above but also this: The French KNOW they are lucky and live in a beautiful country with a high quality of life - a vote for Le Pen is a vote to protect this. They can see what has happened to Paris and Marseilles and they really don’t want that in Vannes and Quimper, in Bayonne and Biarritz, in Mende and Menton
It’s clearly ethnocentric and xenophobic but a lot of French people have no problem that
Nicely timed article for you from the Guardian today.
That's a 12.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% from the Conservatives to Plaid and an 8% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
A quick glance suggests one seat in Wales at most - possibly a 1997 style wipeout for the Conservatives when they polled 19.6% and lost all eight seats being defended.
Yeah, Montgomeryshire now worth buttons as candidate suspended so hopes reduced to hoping on Brecon/Radnor and Monmouth where they'd need to outperform swing
Another gift for Starmer ahead of the final debate…
Always too little too late. #zeroseats
Betting question; if a candidate is elected but has been suspended from their party (these are not the only cases) do they count as (in this case) Conservative or Independent?
Indy as they won't have the whip. Dunno for betting purposes (e.g. you back Tories under 100 seats and they get 99 plus a suspendee)
Gareth Jenkins seems fairly genuine to me. None of the vibes of Vennells & co.
I think he's going to be hard to cast as the villain.
He's had a lot of practice as an expert witness, and a plausible manner doesn't seem to me the same thing as seeming 'genuine'.
The devil will be in the detail over the next few days.
True. He's probably been coached to the nth degree.
But so had Vennells, and she was as plausible as one of Leon's UFOs.
As you say, though, lets see where this goes.
She hadn't spent a load of time giving evidence in court. I don't think you can read much into his manner other than that he's done this a load of times before. Though the stakes are rather higher for him now.
That's a 12.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% from the Conservatives to Plaid and an 8% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
A quick glance suggests one seat in Wales at most - possibly a 1997 style wipeout for the Conservatives when they polled 19.6% and lost all eight seats being defended.
Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr on a knife edge. Though I note it has Craig WIlliams as the PPC, so likely the full welsh set for Labour.
A classic public-sector-adjacent business, set up by a former nurse. Just like the bedside hospital phone operator.
£1.4bn of PPE destroyed. What interests me is that the we seem to be in hock for products we never received (if I am not being mislead by the ambiguous wording). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o
Full Support Healthcare agreed a £1.78bn deal in April 2020 to deliver face masks, respirators, eye protection and aprons - the largest Covid PPE order from a single supplier, accounting for 13% of the government’s total spend.
Before the pandemic, the company, which was already a specialist manufacturer of PPE, had 25 employees and annual profits of £800,000, external.
Any profits since the contract was fulfilled are not known because in 2021 the co-directors, Sarah Stoute, 50, and her husband Richard, 53, based the business offshore in Jersey for privacy reasons.
They and the company continue to pay all UK tax. Neither Full Support Healthcare nor the Stoutes have done anything improper.
Sarah Stoute wearing a high-visibility gilet and holding a clipboard and pen
BBC Investigations made a series of requests over a six-month period under the Freedom of Information Act to NHS Supply Chain, which manages the delivery of healthcare products.
The responses reveal that of the 2.02 billion items of PPE provided by Full Support, only 232 million items have been dispatched to the NHS or other care settings.
Well done Rishi, well done. That was absolutely the right way to play the issue. Take days and days of pain, send out ministers to fill the airways to defend the indefensible. Stick yourself to an absurd line ("I'm very angry") whilst not actually acting like you believe it.
And then finally cave in and do what you needed to do at the start.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
This is the canard that the right keeps repeating - "They won't risk it if they know [they'll be sent to Rwanda/towed back/made to read the Spectator]" (delete as appropriate).
There's no evidence set out that the migrants would either know about such policies or care even if they did. Like any criminal who boasts they will get away with it, the smugglers will claim a secure route to take their money. You're just making assertions with no evidence.
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
Actually I think we are ahead of the curve.
We had our spleen venting moment in 2016. We did the Brexit. We got it out of our system.
And now we regret it and we’re turning Centre-Left, and how.
We are 10 years ahead of the rest of western Europe. Britain often has been ahead of the pack and it’s good to see. We will NOT succumb to the far right, however much you’d like it not to be the case.
The article makes it clear these are products we did receive but never used, and now it's out of date.
Realistically there's no alternative when demand surges then collapses. We were using 10 years worth of PPE in each week, then we weren't again, so when the music stops there's either going to be a case of running out of PPE and putting people's lives in greater jeopardy, or getting too much then never using it.
The article makes it clear these are products we did receive but never used, and now it's out of date.
Realistically there's no alternative when demand surges then collapses. We were using 10 years worth of PPE in each week, then we weren't again, so when the music stops there's either going to be a case of running out of PPE and putting people's lives in greater jeopardy, or getting too much then never using it.
How does this stuff go out of date so quickly?
Is is just a paperwork thing or is there actual degradation of the material?
I'd have taken a few gowns for painting the ceiling etc etc.
Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.
You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
Stop being such a flake
Their lives are already being risked. They drown quite regularly. And hundreds drown in the Med
If we tow them back they will stop coming so in the end you will save many more lives than might be lost. You just have to be quite ruthless at first
Also, this is inevitable. In the end if you don’t do this voters will elect fascists that will do much much worse than this. See the recent European elex
Don't you have a contradiction there. You say hundreds drown already. You also say they will stop coming if we tow them back so the extra risk of drowning will in the end save lives as it will stop them coming.
Why will it stop them coming if they risk drowning already? They will still come in a hope of not being caught.
Re you last sentence that is a genuine worry I agree.
Because they won’t risk drowning if they know there is a 100% chance they will simply be towed back to France
On a technical note, isn’t the towing back thing different in the cases of Australia and the UK, ie it was fairly substantial vessels in the former case and overcrowded flimsy inflatables in the latter? Even with bigger vessels, the recent Greek case shows it’s easy to fuck up especially if you’re not bothered about the continuing existence of the nasty flockers. A few refugees/migrants drowned by the state may be seen as a feature rather than a bug.
The article makes it clear these are products we did receive but never used, and now it's out of date.
Realistically there's no alternative when demand surges then collapses. We were using 10 years worth of PPE in each week, then we weren't again, so when the music stops there's either going to be a case of running out of PPE and putting people's lives in greater jeopardy, or getting too much then never using it.
True but it would have been better to give it away than destroy it.
Comments
2. Australia
But I tell you what, you just keep doing what you’re doing and then in the end the British will elect somebody much nastier than nigel Farage to get this done. See Europe passim
I won’t be pleased - I’d far rather we weren’t governed by the extreme right - but I’m right wing so I’ll probably cope. I imagine it will be much less pleasant for you
There is no reason why the British will be immune to the rightwards surge across the western world. We are NOT exceptional, merely behind the curve
I get my hair cut regularly at one of these barbers, don't go for any of the frilly extras just a plain clipper cut. £10 for about 6 minutes work, if he does five of them in an hour that's £50 an hour takings even if its empty half the time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/world/europe/netherlands-hacking-concerns-hand-count-ballots.html
"div" as in "you div!"?
Did anyone have this in their Junior school vocabulary?
My preferred route is as a shortening of "divot", which I still use occasionally. Divot is possibly linked to "clod", both being lumps of mud.
One alternative is as a contration of "individual", as in "individual needs" - a former term for "special needs".
Any thoughts?
(A few years ago I unearthed a canal tourism guide for canoeists, written c. 1880. It waxed lyrical about the scenery of the Barnsley Canal, suggesting it might be the most picturesque in Britain. You wouldn't believe it now.)
Can anyone beat that ?
Lower! Lower! Lower!
The Eglise Saint Gerand in Le Palais. Founded in the 11th century but entirely rebuilt from 1906-1940 by superb crasftsmen from Vannes: a polychrome riot of mosaics and ceramics and vivid stained glass, like Catalan Catholicism on ayahuasca
Incroyable. And oui, beaucoup du noom: 6/10
It makes some very sharp criticisms which we would do well to pay heed to.
You can't throw a far-right authoritarian bone to avoid far-right anti-egalitarian authoritarianism in the form of you and Nigel Farage. Give people like you an inch, as history shows, you take a mile.
Gareth Jenkins: "I wouldn't say that".
Though it would have been even better if he had accurately described what the Equality Act says. There is no concept of "safe spaces" in the Act. Spaces can be single sex for a variety of reasons of which safety is only one: privacy is another. There are others.
If he - and other Labour politicians (Philippson is another) - cannot describe the existing law accurately, they are not going to be able to resolve the clash of rights which exists. The problem has been badly exacerbated by lobby groups deliberately misdescribing the law. Politicians who seek to address this should not make the same mistake.
https://t.co/qzyfIwLDN0
Great FT Piece and Twitter write up on the strength of the Lib Dem / Labour tactical vote split.
Those were the days.
I'm on my way to That London right now. Not visiting my former W5 manor this time, just in The City with the red braces crowd.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2644955.stm
I recall, at my school, the term 'spaz' was used for a while, which the teachers rightly clamped down on, being of course derived from spastic and wholly inappropriate and offensive as a derogatory term. Around that time, the Spastics Society renamed themselves to Scope and some enterprising lad started shouting 'scope!' instead of 'spaz!'. As far as I recall, the teachers gave up at that point.
I would guess that Farage being besties with Trump should be a turn off for any sane woman (and, indeed, any sane man).
https://votecompass.uk/
I’m close to where I thought I’d be, a little bit further right economically than expected.
We aren't a European PR-based country.
Looking at comparable Common Law countries using the Westminster system, I see no rightwards surge to the extreme right.
In Canada, Trudeau looks like losing to the Conservatives, but its regular pendulum swings and time for a change, not the extreme right taking charge.
In Australia, the extreme right One Nation Party is still an insignificant dot in its polling and its the Liberal/National Coalition that represents the right as it has done for the past century.
You are seeing what you want to see.
There are different kinds of noom. Dark noom is somewhere that has that nape-tingle for bad reasons. First World War battlefields. Anything to do with the Nazis. Tuol Sleng
Bright noom is good noom. The sense of uncanny beauty that lifts the soul (often you don’t know why)
The noomiest places often combine both. Take St Kilda, breathtakingly spectacular and filled with spiritual loveliness - bright noom - but it also has dark noom. That unique bizarre community which was tragically destroyed by Victorian priests and advancing modernity
That’s noom
Or four hours if you are @BartholomewRoberts.
Apparently it was first used to describe people born disabled by thalidomide
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5487755,-1.4719715,3a,90y,89.96h,97.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8lJSa8uce8Ky3XtCh6T4tw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Nice view over Yorkshire yonder from the beer garden outdoor seating area.
How did new housing affect the demographics over that period?
(Comparing to change in the Nottingham end of Ashfield aka Hucknall).
Do you think the building of the tramways was an important factor?
"OMG, Trump's lost and it wasn't even that close. WTF went on there?"
"Women."
"Ah ok. Yes. Makes perfect sense."
I think he's going to be hard to cast as the villain.
Btw how do you feel about the onwards march of Le Pen? Doesn’t it freak you out being surrounded by the fascist French? The riviera is one of their strongholds
*ten years and two days
The election is going to get about 0 Reform MPs elected, not hundreds.
🚨NEW Wales Westminster voting intention for @ITVWales
📉Cons support in Wales halved since 2019
🌹Lab 49 (+8)
🌳Con 19 (-17)
🌼Plaid 12 (+2)
➡️Reform 12 (+7)
🔶LD 5 (-1)
🌍Green 3 (+2)
1,026 Welsh adults, 14-18 June
(change vs 2019 Westminster election results)
https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1805488597602017467?s=19
This, for example:
..In other words, the software and its developers were deemed innocent until proven guilty, while those facing prosecution were treated as guilty unless they could prove their innocence...
The point about the legal status of computer evidence has been regularly discussed on PB. The law in question is about computer evidence rather than the guilt or innocence of software developers (or indeed the PO workers being prosecuted).
Under English Common law, long before computers existed, courts assumed that mechanical systems were functioning correctly unless it was shown otherwise.
The Police & Criminal Evidence Act of 1984 changed this presumption regarding computer evidence:
Evidence from computer records
(1) In any proceedings, a statement in a document produced by a computer shall not be
admissible as evidence of any fact stated therein unless it is shown—
(a) that there are no reasonable grounds for believing that the statement is
inaccurate because of improper use of the computer;,
(b) that at all material times the computer was operating properly, or if not, that any respect in which it was not operating properly or was out of operation was not such as to affect the production of the document or the accuracy of
its contents; and
(c) that any relevant conditions specified in rules of court under subsection (2)
below are satisfied...
The Criminal Evidence Act of 1999 repealed this section of the Act, so the Common Law presumption returned.
While it might be true to say that in prosecution which rely on computer evidence, the burden of proof is reversed, the standard of proof for the defence in challenging computer evidence is not (as it is for the prosecution) "beyond reasonable doubt".
The defence need only introduce evidence that the computer might not be reliable.
Of course, in the PO case it was almost impossible for the postmasters to produce such evidence at the time of their prosecutions - and once they had been declared guilty, the evidentiary hurdles for them to challenge convictions were much higher.
I'm quite close to you, but apparently slightly more left and less progressive - slap bang on the economic centre line and 2/3 the way up the first square above the centre line on the progressive axis.
Tactical Lab vote from me this election (not that it's likely needed) but puts me very close to the LD position. Pretty much where I would have put myself (although maybe I'd say slightly more progressive - I think that's because I didn't give very strong responses to many questions) if I was just pointing at the chart without doing the questions.
ETA: As they have positioned the parties based on stated policies, it would be fascinating to see their party positioning on this over past elections and the position of the winning party.
Apparently not.
Even terms like "conservative", "socialist", "liberal" and "social democrat" don't have the meaning they once did. "Green" for example has had its meaning so distorted as to be worthless as a political term.
How then do we define politics in the 21st century? The fault lines currently seem to be cultural and national in terms of national identities in a global economy. We then have the climate change faultline, the deniers, the absolutists and the vast majority somewhere between who know something bad is coming but are hoping human ingenuity will mitigate the worst of it (as it did with Covid-19). Another line is information - who owns it, who controls access to it, how do we ensure more people can get to that information.
We already know information is the currency of the future - are we going to treat it like the currency of the past or are we going to look at it differently?
For me, and this is a trite way of looking at it, I'd prefer we concentrate on the freedom FROM than the freedom TO.
Watched farage on YouTube at Kent this morning and Devon tonight Yotally different unscripted and treated rightly like a rock star by the huge outdoor audiences Anyone who criticises should watch and observe a real leader particularly sunak.starmer and their little lapdog davey and they should see for themselves why millions will vote
@reformparty_uk
and why
@Nigel_Farage
should be our pm
9:03 PM · Jun 24, 2024
·
22.9K
Views
https://x.com/CarlWillDurham/status/1805331011791732828
Yes, X is very out there.
Twitter and Britain are not the same thing, as true today as it was when Cameron said it in 2015.
Back in the real world of the UK, the election result is going to see ~0 Reform MPs elected, not hundreds and PM Farage. 🤦♂️
The devil will be in the detail over the next few days.
https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/1805535245590003850?s=46
Another gift for Starmer ahead of the final debate…
But so had Vennells, and she was as plausible as one of Leon's UFOs.
As you say, though, lets see where this goes.
“Does anyone know Arbuthnot?”
“Yes, I think he’s a country member”
“Ah yes, I remember.”
I was tending to the @TimS theory (which I’ve shared for a while) that despite their good fortune the French are imbued with pessimism - due to declining French power - mainly cultural rather than political (within living memory French still had a chance of being the world language). A vote for Le Pen is a vote from pessimism
However I’ve adapted my theory. It is partly the above but also this: The French KNOW they are lucky and live in a beautiful country with a high quality of life - a vote for Le Pen is a vote to protect this. They can see what has happened to Paris and Marseilles and they really don’t want that in Vannes and Quimper, in Bayonne and Biarritz, in Mende and Menton
It’s clearly ethnocentric and xenophobic but a lot of French people have no problem with that
Obviously indecisive !
A quick glance suggests one seat in Wales at most - possibly a 1997 style wipeout for the Conservatives when they polled 19.6% and lost all eight seats being defended.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/25/britons-think-uk-is-in-a-bad-way-but-french-more-pessimistic-survey-shows
I don't think you can read much into his manner other than that he's done this a load of times before. Though the stakes are rather higher for him now.
A classic public-sector-adjacent business, set up by a former nurse. Just like the bedside hospital phone operator.
£1.4bn of PPE destroyed. What interests me is that the we seem to be in hock for products we never received (if I am not being mislead by the ambiguous wording).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o
Full Support Healthcare agreed a £1.78bn deal in April 2020 to deliver face masks, respirators, eye protection and aprons - the largest Covid PPE order from a single supplier, accounting for 13% of the government’s total spend.
Before the pandemic, the company, which was already a specialist manufacturer of PPE, had 25 employees and annual profits of £800,000, external.
Any profits since the contract was fulfilled are not known because in 2021 the co-directors, Sarah Stoute, 50, and her husband Richard, 53, based the business offshore in Jersey for privacy reasons.
They and the company continue to pay all UK tax. Neither Full Support Healthcare nor the Stoutes have done anything improper.
Sarah Stoute wearing a high-visibility gilet and holding a clipboard and pen
BBC Investigations made a series of requests over a six-month period under the Freedom of Information Act to NHS Supply Chain, which manages the delivery of healthcare products.
The responses reveal that of the 2.02 billion items of PPE provided by Full Support, only 232 million items have been dispatched to the NHS or other care settings.
This is a campaign that the Tories had complete control over the timing of.
And then finally cave in and do what you needed to do at the start.
We had our spleen venting moment in 2016. We did the Brexit. We got it out of our system.
And now we regret it and we’re turning Centre-Left, and how.
We are 10 years ahead of the rest of western Europe. Britain often has been ahead of the pack and it’s good to see. We will NOT succumb to the far right, however much you’d like it not to be the case.
Realistically there's no alternative when demand surges then collapses. We were using 10 years worth of PPE in each week, then we weren't again, so when the music stops there's either going to be a case of running out of PPE and putting people's lives in greater jeopardy, or getting too much then never using it.
Is is just a paperwork thing or is there actual degradation of the material?
I'd have taken a few gowns for painting the ceiling etc etc.