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Let’s talk about gender politics – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    I’ve already voted Labour for transparency.
    Good luck with that.
    They were the tactical vote choice in Putney
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,089
    edited June 25
    Deleted
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    The pipsqueak will not for sure , both him and Starmer are clowns who don't know the difference between a man and a woman, the fake F*ckers have more faces than the town clock. Tories in red ties and as big liars to boot.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    You really are a LEON sockpuppet for sure.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Eabhal said:

    Oh for fuck's sake. These people need to be jailed for life.

    Celebrity stag put down after hikers feed it croissants

    ‘Local legend’ Callum euthanised after its health deteriorated, with locals blaming tourists for feeding it with snacks from their hands


    A stag made famous on social media has had to be put down after it was fed junk food by hikers.

    Callum, described as a “well-known character” in the north-west Scottish Highlands, had to be euthanised after developing health problems.

    The animal’s willingness to approach visitors in the car park of Beinn Eighe National Nature Reserve and eat from their hands led it to become a popular draw for those on the North Coast 500 route and earned the creature a celebrity status online.

    Videos posted on YouTube show Callum being fed croissants and Rice Krispies, as well as healthier snacks such as strawberries and apples.

    But after the National Trust for Scotland announced that it had been forced to have Callum put down, locals expressed concern that the stag’s access to snacks was to blame for its deteriorating health.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/23/hikers-junk-food-celebrity-scottish-highlands-stag-death/

    That stag put a big scratch in my car last time I was in Torridon.

    On an unrelated note, the Venison casserole at Kinlochewe Hotel is superb.
    Did it have the tang of croissant?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I love the countryside too but as they say in the Paris you hate, 'chacun à son goût'
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, PB Brains Trust, quick question.

    As I think many of you know I have had a lawsuit going on against a certain company due to their persistent issuing of fraudulent bills (I see from yesterday's BBC they are still doing this) which resulted in my being awarded a default judgement against them after their not over-bright solicitor messed up the paperwork.

    The aforesaid not overbright solicitor and company in question have now not only refused to accept the judgement and pay up but bombarded both me and the courts with demands that the judgement be set aside. This has included making a false statement to the court (one I can prove is false) and accusing me in private correspondence of bribery to get the judgement. This bombarding has included an emergency application to stay enforcement and reverse the judgement without a hearing with costs awarded at a figure to be determined by them (not the courts) later. I have invited them to withdraw the filing that contains the false statement but despite acknowledging receipt of my email as far as I can see they have not done so

    I am applying for a warrant of control to enforce the judgement. Should I, at the same time, demonstrate the falseness of the statement or should I just apply and see what happens? I have noted on the application that the company have refused to accept the judgement and I have had to caution them about the language they are using.

    Any advice gratefully received, because I'm somewhat startled at their behaviour.

    To be honest, I'd go the police.

    That really will cause bowels to be loosened.
    Thanks. I will consider it. The only problem is, it would be Thames Valley police I think? Pretty useless bunch.
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    OK, PB Brains Trust, quick question.

    As I think many of you know I have had a lawsuit going on against a certain company due to their persistent issuing of fraudulent bills (I see from yesterday's BBC they are still doing this) which resulted in my being awarded a default judgement against them after their not over-bright solicitor messed up the paperwork.

    The aforesaid not overbright solicitor and company in question have now not only refused to accept the judgement and pay up but bombarded both me and the courts with demands that the judgement be set aside. This has included making a false statement to the court (one I can prove is false) and accusing me in private correspondence of bribery to get the judgement. This bombarding has included an emergency application to stay enforcement and reverse the judgement without a hearing with costs awarded at a figure to be determined by them (not the courts) later. I have invited them to withdraw the filing that contains the false statement but despite acknowledging receipt of my email as far as I can see they have not done so

    I am applying for a warrant of control to enforce the judgement. Should I, at the same time, demonstrate the falseness of the statement or should I just apply and see what happens? I have noted on the application that the company have refused to accept the judgement and I have had to caution them about the language they are using.

    Any advice gratefully received, because I'm somewhat startled at their behaviour.

    To be honest, I'd go the police.

    That really will cause bowels to be loosened.
    Thanks. I will consider it. The only problem is, it would be Thames Valley police I think? Pretty useless bunch.
    Are you in the BBC Three Counties Radio area?

    The Johnathan Vernon Smith Consumer Rights morning show (a Radio version of "Thats Life" that has been running for over 20 years) might well take an interest if contacted?

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Taz said:

    The U.K. would need to build a city the size of London to fix its housing crisis.

    https://x.com/economics/status/1805481564521812463?s=61

    They should build one on the banks of the Humber. North Lincs especially could use some radical redevelopment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    Heathener said:

    Beginning to wonder if Newton Abbot could be a 4-way marginal?!

    Am I right /wrong?

    Is there another in the country that could lay claim to that?

    My own seat could.

    But probably, neither of them will. It’s just that we’re unable to discern how the chips are falling, given the shortage of data to work on. Don’t discount the data you do have, however.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    ydoethur said:

    OK, PB Brains Trust, quick question.

    As I think many of you know I have had a lawsuit going on against a certain company due to their persistent issuing of fraudulent bills (I see from yesterday's BBC they are still doing this) which resulted in my being awarded a default judgement against them after their not over-bright solicitor messed up the paperwork.

    The aforesaid not overbright solicitor and company in question have now not only refused to accept the judgement and pay up but bombarded both me and the courts with demands that the judgement be set aside. This has included making a false statement to the court (one I can prove is false) and accusing me in private correspondence of bribery to get the judgement. This bombarding has included an emergency application to stay enforcement and reverse the judgement without a hearing with costs awarded at a figure to be determined by them (not the courts) later. I have invited them to withdraw the filing that contains the false statement but despite acknowledging receipt of my email as far as I can see they have not done so

    I am applying for a warrant of control to enforce the judgement. Should I, at the same time, demonstrate the falseness of the statement or should I just apply and see what happens? I have noted on the application that the company have refused to accept the judgement and I have had to caution them about the language they are using.

    Any advice gratefully received, because I'm somewhat startled at their behaviour.

    Blimey.
    Sounds as though you've really round the idiot criminals up.

    But I agree, I'd go to the Police. Not that you can have any great expectation of action, but you'll have at least got their false accusations on the record.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    You really are a LEON sockpuppet for sure.
    Even Leon needs to sleep. Especially with that headache.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    About that jacket - possibly relevant regarding the header.

    Look at this ugly pattern drafting. Most tailored jackets have a dart that runs from your ribcage to your hip pocket. This one has been placed so that the stripe disappears mid-chest, which is distracting and ugly..
    https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1805476888716140904
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Oh for fuck's sake. These people need to be jailed for life.

    Celebrity stag put down after hikers feed it croissants

    ‘Local legend’ Callum euthanised after its health deteriorated, with locals blaming tourists for feeding it with snacks from their hands


    A stag made famous on social media has had to be put down after it was fed junk food by hikers.

    Callum, described as a “well-known character” in the north-west Scottish Highlands, had to be euthanised after developing health problems.

    The animal’s willingness to approach visitors in the car park of Beinn Eighe National Nature Reserve and eat from their hands led it to become a popular draw for those on the North Coast 500 route and earned the creature a celebrity status online.

    Videos posted on YouTube show Callum being fed croissants and Rice Krispies, as well as healthier snacks such as strawberries and apples.

    But after the National Trust for Scotland announced that it had been forced to have Callum put down, locals expressed concern that the stag’s access to snacks was to blame for its deteriorating health.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/23/hikers-junk-food-celebrity-scottish-highlands-stag-death/

    That stag put a big scratch in my car last time I was in Torridon.

    On an unrelated note, the Venison casserole at Kinlochewe Hotel is superb.
    I love vegan food.
    Joke stopped being funny over two years ago mate.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I love the countryside too but as they say in the Paris you hate, 'chacun à son goût'
    Well maybe you can have something sympathy for my son.

    He has lived Bath ( passable but too much traffic ), Edinburgh ( excellent ) London ( Mrs B had to drag me to see him ) Paris ( done it to death ). He currently lives in Paris which I find about as exciting as a trip to Birmingham.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Fpt

    Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.

    Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.

    https://tinyurl.com/yc5ukj8j

    I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
    My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
    There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.

    (not advice, do your own research etc...)
    NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566
    Belle Ile en Mer!

    The beautiful island in the sea!

    And it is
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.


    Not a chance. They are going for ultra Woke. Just you watch
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    TimS said:

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.
    I think it's a ying and yang thing, or a Newton's third law thing.

    Women think that identity politics works in their favour, and is just about being "nice" at the same time, but at the very same time men can think it's an attack on them that disadvantages and blames them.

    Since much of it is entirely performative and achieves nothing except pitching one group against each other the best thing to do is stop talking about it and focus on core economics and social issues that affect everyone.

    Then, I'd expect, the gender split would converge substantially.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Fpt

    Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.

    Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.

    https://tinyurl.com/yc5ukj8j

    I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
    My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
    There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.

    (not advice, do your own research etc...)
    NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
    Doesn't Nick Palmer Who Know Of What He Talks put the personal premium at about 1000 votes?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    We rarely agree but: absolutely

    London and Paris are probably the two least boring places on earth, along with NYC and the Antarctic Peninsula

    Interestingly, all four show signs of decline
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Australia eliminated as Afghanistan beat Bangladesh to reach T20 World Cup semis
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/25/t20-world-cup-australia-eliminated-afghanistan-vs-bangladesh-results-scores-match-report

    What a shame.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    TimS said:

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.
    There's also possibly something in this although some of the radical stuff certainly inhabits the Left too.

    Maybe they just don't see it as such.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited June 25
    Dura_Ace said:

    Tankie was the cognomen given to those that stayed in the CPGB after the CPGB/NCP split in 1968 - not to be confused with the CPGB/CPB(M-L) split in 1963.

    It's used on here with intellectual dishonesty, or perhaps more likely dunderheaded ignorance, to refer to any person with a left wing perspective for whom the Centrist Dad posting has little regard.

    Oh boo hoo. Suddenly name calling is unfair Dura? This is the line, this is where historically accurate terminology must be maintained for you, the radical bad boy of PB, that is where things get too mean?

    And you call that intellectually dishonest? Has the term ever been used on here outside the context of Russia/Ukraine, instead to apply to any left wing perspective?

    As someone who delights in provocation it's good to know some things are still beyond the pale for you - inaccurate referencing of 1960s Communists. Even if it is very out of character for you to be so snowflakey.

    Presumably you detest the term Tory, which is supposed to refer to outlaws, typically Irish, yet some buggers, probably centrist dads, use it dishonestly about modern politicians.

    Terms never evolve after all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Taz said:

    The U.K. would need to build a city the size of London to fix its housing crisis.

    https://x.com/economics/status/1805481564521812463?s=61

    That makes the problem seem insurmountable, when a big dent could be made fairly easily by spreading the burden.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Oh for fuck's sake. These people need to be jailed for life.

    Celebrity stag put down after hikers feed it croissants

    ‘Local legend’ Callum euthanised after its health deteriorated, with locals blaming tourists for feeding it with snacks from their hands


    A stag made famous on social media has had to be put down after it was fed junk food by hikers.

    Callum, described as a “well-known character” in the north-west Scottish Highlands, had to be euthanised after developing health problems.

    The animal’s willingness to approach visitors in the car park of Beinn Eighe National Nature Reserve and eat from their hands led it to become a popular draw for those on the North Coast 500 route and earned the creature a celebrity status online.

    Videos posted on YouTube show Callum being fed croissants and Rice Krispies, as well as healthier snacks such as strawberries and apples.

    But after the National Trust for Scotland announced that it had been forced to have Callum put down, locals expressed concern that the stag’s access to snacks was to blame for its deteriorating health.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/23/hikers-junk-food-celebrity-scottish-highlands-stag-death/

    That stag put a big scratch in my car last time I was in Torridon.

    On an unrelated note, the Venison casserole at Kinlochewe Hotel is superb.
    I love vegan food.
    Venison + an organic beer from Black Isle brewery. I'm a typical woke millennial.
    They do an excellent mushroom and venison salami pizza at the Black Isle Brewery Bar in Inverness.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Beginning to wonder if Newton Abbot could be a 4-way marginal?!

    Am I right /wrong?

    Is there another in the country that could lay claim to that?

    My own seat could.

    But probably, neither of them will. It’s just that we’re unable to discern how the chips are falling, given the shortage of data to work on. Don’t discount the data you do have, however.
    I agree with you Ian. Can you remind me which one is yours?

    As @Taz and I discussed, I think Newton Abbot will be a Cons HOLD but it’s a very confusing picture at the moment. 3 different tactical voting sites all have different answers (1 = LibDem; 1 = Labour; 1 = Unsure).

    The MRPs also presented a conflicted and conflicting picture.

    (Does anyone have a constituency link for Focaldata?)

    Survation: Labour GAIN
    IPSOS-MORI: Leaning Con: Con 36% Lab 29% LibDem 19%, Reform 12%
    MiC: Con HOLD: Con 36%, Lab 21%, LibDem 30%, Reform 9%
    Savanta: Too Close to Call: Con-Lab battle
    YouGov: Con HOLD: Con 29%, Lab 16%, LibDem 23%, Reform 23%
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    We rarely agree but: absolutely

    London and Paris are probably the two least boring places on earth, along with NYC and the Antarctic Peninsula

    Interestingly, all four show signs of decline

    Any city that you can walk around with ease, enjoy the streetscapes and pop into a bar to get a decent drink or bite to eat is unboring and worth a couple of days of your time, IMO.

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 25
    Leon said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.


    Not a chance. They are going for ultra Woke. Just you watch
    Tbf, anything that isn’t from Farage’s mouth is woke to you ;)

    You just don’t like change :D

    Wes was really good. A very sensible middle path, and attempting to take the toxicity out which is a good lesson for us all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    I know it's early, premature even, but this article opines on what might eventually bring Starmer down

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmers-flashes-of-disgust-will-be-his-undoing-2crs909nn
  • TimS said:

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.
    I think it's a ying and yang thing, or a Newton's third law thing.

    Women think that identity politics works in their favour, and is just about being "nice" at the same time, but at the very same time men can think it's an attack on them that disadvantages and blames them.

    Since much of it is entirely performative and achieves nothing except pitching one group against each other the best thing to do is stop talking about it and focus on core economics and social issues that affect everyone.

    Then, I'd expect, the gender split would converge substantially.
    They did until the trans issue kicked off.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited June 25
    Unpopular said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Oh for fuck's sake. These people need to be jailed for life.

    Celebrity stag put down after hikers feed it croissants

    ‘Local legend’ Callum euthanised after its health deteriorated, with locals blaming tourists for feeding it with snacks from their hands


    A stag made famous on social media has had to be put down after it was fed junk food by hikers.

    Callum, described as a “well-known character” in the north-west Scottish Highlands, had to be euthanised after developing health problems.

    The animal’s willingness to approach visitors in the car park of Beinn Eighe National Nature Reserve and eat from their hands led it to become a popular draw for those on the North Coast 500 route and earned the creature a celebrity status online.

    Videos posted on YouTube show Callum being fed croissants and Rice Krispies, as well as healthier snacks such as strawberries and apples.

    But after the National Trust for Scotland announced that it had been forced to have Callum put down, locals expressed concern that the stag’s access to snacks was to blame for its deteriorating health.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/23/hikers-junk-food-celebrity-scottish-highlands-stag-death/

    That stag put a big scratch in my car last time I was in Torridon.

    On an unrelated note, the Venison casserole at Kinlochewe Hotel is superb.
    I love vegan food.
    Venison + an organic beer from Black Isle brewery. I'm a typical woke millennial.
    They do an excellent mushroom and venison salami pizza at the Black Isle Brewery Bar in Inverness.
    I know the bar! I get a regular delivery from the Black Isle Brewery (on the other side of the Beauly Firth) to my doorstep - the mixed boxes and some of the periodic special beers. A refreshing lack of the alarming stuff such as haggis beer which one gets in mixed boxes from other suppliers.

    And I had some vegan mutton (not lamb) on Monday evening. Yum.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    edited June 25
    .
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Tankie was the cognomen given to those that stayed in the CPGB after the CPGB/NCP split in 1968 - not to be confused with the CPGB/CPB(M-L) split in 1963.

    It's used on here with intellectual dishonesty, or perhaps more likely dunderheaded ignorance, to refer to any person with a left wing perspective for whom the Centrist Dad posting has little regard.

    Oh boo hoo. Suddenly name calling is unfair Dura? This is the line, this is where historically accurate terminology must be maintained for you, the radical bad boy of PB, that is where things get too mean?

    And you call that intellectually dishonest? Has the term ever been used on here outside the context of Russia/Ukraine, instead to apply to any left wing perspective?

    As someone who delights in provocation it's good to know some things are still beyond the pale for you - inaccurate referencing of 1960s Communists. Even if it is very out of character for you to be so snowflakey.

    Presumably you detest the term Tory, which is supposed to refer to outlaws, typically Irish, yet some buggers, probably centrist dads, use it dishonestly about modern politicians.

    Terms never evolve after all.
    Perhaps Dura is just deprecating lazy invective. He does have high standards, and great fluency in that respect.

    Though TBF tankie is quite useful to denote those committed to ideology impervious to any challenge.
  • @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 728
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Beginning to wonder if Newton Abbot could be a 4-way marginal?!

    Am I right /wrong?

    Is there another in the country that could lay claim to that?

    My own seat could.

    But probably, neither of them will. It’s just that we’re unable to discern how the chips are falling, given the shortage of data to work on. Don’t discount the data you do have, however.
    St Neots and Mid Cambs feels that way even though it probably isn’t. It’s a three way marginal but in St Neots a popular former mayor and County Councillor is running hard as an independent. You see more of his signs in St Neots than any other party and I suspect he might top the poll there. As far a I’m aware he’s not campaigning anywhere else in the constituency though so is unlikely to win. I have a nasty feeling that his activities might let the Tories win though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.

    Isn't hat what Boris Johnson says?

    So it can't be true :wink: .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    edited June 25
    TimS said:

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.
    Possibly, but taking the long view, the left has tended to be stronger on social issues such as health, welfare and education, whereas the right is (*was) stronger on defence and the economy, and there has traditionally been a gender split in which are seen as the priority issues.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    Have they drifted to the left? Or has the Tory party drifted away from them to the right?
    Outside a few particular policies are either of our big main parties very left or right wing? I'm not sure a gender gap could be entirely explained by the Tories becoming very right wing, since Starmer as presumably centre left is not a thousand miles from the Tories.

    So if they have gone they far we might have no actual left wing parties at all except the Greens.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    TimS said:

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    The theory that makes most sense to me is that women are on the whole more cautious, risk averse and therefore small-c conservative than men.

    When conservatism was about caution and the left was about radical change, women were therefore more conservative in voting patterns than men. Now most of the risk taking and radicalism is on the right the equation has changed.

    Since much of it is entirely performative and achieves nothing except pitching one group against each other the best thing to do is stop talking about it and focus on core economics and social issues that affect everyone.

    To quote @Leon, we rarely agree but on this we do.

    Absolutely spot on.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    Have they drifted to the left? Or has the Tory party drifted away from them to the right?
    Both Labour and the Tories have been all over the place on the left/right spectrum the last decade, voters haven't moved much. Tax and spend is largely dictated and constrained by our demographics nows, so rather than ideology the key to better government is going to be competence.
  • MattW said:

    @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.

    Isn't hat what Boris Johnson says?

    So it can't be true :wink: .
    Boris Johnson nearly destroyed this great city. But Londoners saw through him before the country did.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,971
    edited June 25

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    Is the wedding in Paris? I'm in the South at the moment and it seems to be the fashion for English people to get married here. The whole kit and caboodle arrives. AnywaI hope he's chosen wisely and enjoy the wedding! PS I'd go with Edinburgh as my favourite British City
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    Have they drifted to the left? Or has the Tory party drifted away from them to the right?
    They've drifted to the Left. You date this back to "austerity" early under David Cameron and the emerging differentials on things like gay marriage and AV.

    It's a fascinating pincer the Conservatives are in right now where people like you think they've drifted to the right and lots of their natural supporters think they've never been more left-wing.

    In reality, they talk right but deliver centre-centre-left and that's what's going to kill them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    The U.K. would need to build a city the size of London to fix its housing crisis.

    https://x.com/economics/status/1805481564521812463?s=61

    They should build one on the banks of the Humber. North Lincs especially could use some radical redevelopment.
    That's actually a great idea. Already fairly well-connected, plenty of flat, cheap land. Climate not actually too bad (quite dry and sunny).

    Build the Transpennine HS route to support it though.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    edited June 25

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Fpt

    Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.

    Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.

    https://tinyurl.com/yc5ukj8j

    I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
    My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
    There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.

    (not advice, do your own research etc...)
    NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
    Doesn't Nick Palmer Who Know Of What He Talks put the personal premium at about 1000 votes?
    The obvious exceptions will be Jeremy Corbyn and Keith Vaz (the latter of course was an MP until 2019) but I don't think the personal vote is that great - even people who have been helped by their MP rarely give them much credit..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    The drift to the Left of women over the last 10-15 years, particularly Millennials and GenZ, is one of the most fascinating political trends there is.

    Have they drifted to the left? Or has the Tory party drifted away from them to the right?
    They've drifted to the Left. You date this back to "austerity" early under David Cameron and the emerging differentials on things like gay marriage and AV.

    It's a fascinating pincer the Conservatives are in right now where people like you think they've drifted to the right and lots of their natural supporters think they've never been more left-wing.

    In reality, they talk right but deliver centre-centre-left and that's what's going to kill them.
    They talk both sides, and deliver for neither, hence the disparate views.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    We rarely agree but: absolutely

    London and Paris are probably the two least boring places on earth, along with NYC and the Antarctic Peninsula

    Interestingly, all four show signs of decline

    Any city that you can walk around with ease, enjoy the streetscapes and pop into a bar to get a decent drink or bite to eat is unboring and worth a couple of days of your time, IMO.

    Seoul.
    I plan a at least a fortnight there next time.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074

    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    The U.K. would need to build a city the size of London to fix its housing crisis.

    https://x.com/economics/status/1805481564521812463?s=61

    They should build one on the banks of the Humber. North Lincs especially could use some radical redevelopment.
    That's actually a great idea. Already fairly well-connected, plenty of flat, cheap land. Climate not actually too bad (quite dry and sunny).

    Build the Transpennine HS route to support it though.
    I've often cast around for likely locations for new cities and that's one of the least bad locations AFAICS.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027

    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    Morning. Just out of interest who are you voting for?

    I’ve already voted Labour for transparency.
    Morning

    I have said I would not vote. Especially as Labour just parachuted a candidate in here and took the areas for granted.

    However I have quite liked Luke Akehurst's twitter campaign and his campaign stops as well as his attempts to eat his way around North Durham including a few places I have eaten, so I may well end up voting labour after all for the 10th consecutive election
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.


    Not a chance. They are going for ultra Woke. Just you watch
    Tbf, anything that isn’t from Farage’s mouth is woke to you.

    You just don’t like change.
    My life is - literally - constant change

    I go from one place to another, with great enthusiasm, appreciating newness - and the fact I get to do it for free; indeed I get paid to do it. Here is where I am now. Just got off the ferry from Quiberon to Belle Ile. I’ve never been to the Breton islands before; they are stunning



    And, as I travel, I am constantly changing my mind and testing new opinions - as I gather fresh information. This trip is changing my mind about France and the French, quite fundamentally

    And now I must go and explore the Beautiful Island in the Sea
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.

    Johnson's* quote still holds: "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life"

    (*No, not that one)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145
    eek said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Fpt

    Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.

    Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.

    https://tinyurl.com/yc5ukj8j

    I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
    My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
    There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.

    (not advice, do your own research etc...)
    NOM at 100-1 might be worth a few bob but the opinion polls do reflect any personal vote and there really isn't that much of it...
    Doesn't Nick Palmer Who Know Of What He Talks put the personal premium at about 1000 votes?
    The obvious exceptions will be Jeremy Corbyn and Keith Vaz (the latter of course was an MP until 2019) but I don't think the personal vote is that great - even people who have been helped by their MP rarely give them much credit..
    It's kind of surprising, a lot of people (maybe the majority?) aren't particularly impressed with political parties so if you have a good and helpful MP that is something that should be valued more than another whip slave.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    Morning. Just out of interest who are you voting for?

    I’ve already voted Labour for transparency.
    Morning

    I have said I would not vote. Especially as Labour just parachuted a candidate in here and took the areas for granted.

    However I have quite liked Luke Akehurst's twitter campaign and his campaign stops as well as his attempts to eat his way around North Durham including a few places I have eaten, so I may well end up voting labour after all for the 10th consecutive election
    Respect your choice to not vote but also to vote for Akehurst if you like what he's doing.

    I wish I had abstained in 2019.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    JamesF said:

    The more nationalist the party, the more male its support.

    Are there counter examples?

    SNP ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.

    I take it youve never been outside the M25
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    @Heathener ignore the prats, London is the greatest city in the world.

    Johnson's* quote still holds: "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life"

    (*No, not that one)
    Hadnt got you down as a Boris fan :smiley:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    The similarities between the Trumpist Tory right and what was the Corbynista Labour left are really quite striking:
    * Actively and vocally disliking the country they want to govern.
    * Thinking voters are moving to the left (or right) because the party is not right (or left) enough.
    * Prioritising culture war issues over the basic day to day ones.
    * Brexit/Socialism hasn't failed it just hasn't been tried yet.
    * Happy to make alliances with parties and people further to the right (left)
    * An absolute inability to engage with, listen to or learn from anyone outside the bubble.

    I just don't know how so many Tories can look at the absolute shit-show that was the Labour party from 2015 to 2019 and then learn all the wrong lessons from it. I find it totally bizarre.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited June 25
    Good morning everyone.

    Interesting news on the Assange potential plea deal.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69145409

    Stella Assange now talks about the legal process that saw Julian Assange leave the UK - remember, he had been in a British prison for more than five years, as he fought extradition to the US.

    Essentially afaics his self-imposed incarceration is being treated as time served, and the whole sentence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    O/T As widely predicted:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/24/number-of-people-crossing-channel-in-small-boats-hits-new-high

    Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    Is the wedding in Paris? I'm in the South at the moment and it seems to be the fashion for English people to get married here. The whole kit and caboodle arrives. AnywaI hope he's chosen wisely and enjoy the wedding! PS I'd go with Edinburgh as my favourite British City
    The wedding is just south of Versailles
    In a chateau
    Which her dad owns.
    He's the conte. ( not easy to say with an Ulster accent )
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I think that's optimistic to be honest. Why has it not been much an issue in the campaign? Because it's not electorally beneficial for either side as it turns out.

    But once Labour are in and there's no potential electoral consequences that's when it can flare up again as an issue, there's still lots of people who feel very strongly on both sides.

    Does Labour want to spend time and energy on that? Probably not. So what's the easiest approach to take? Probably to go along with whatever side has most natural support in the party on any particular issue. Anything else just invites internal squabbles.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566

    O/T As widely predicted:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/24/number-of-people-crossing-channel-in-small-boats-hits-new-high

    Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?

    We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda

    Tho I predict Labour - which could easily get crushed by this issue in months - will adopt a form of Rwanda. In fact I expect a Europe wide consensus on this. It will feel less “fash” if everyone does it
  • IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    I’ve already voted Labour for transparency.
    Good luck with that.
    They were the tactical vote choice in Putney
    Very disappointed to discover that Battery Correct Horse dosen't work on what3words.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Interesting news on the Assange potential plea deal.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69145409

    Stella Assange now talks about the legal process that saw Julian Assange leave the UK - remember, he had been in a British prison for more than five years, as he fought extradition to the US.

    Essentially afaics his self-imposed incarceration is being treated as time served, and the whole sentence.

    UK taxpayer cost - was £11m in 2015 rising to £16m in 2019, so if a similar rate since about £20m by now.

    Thanks, the US!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    O/T As widely predicted:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/24/number-of-people-crossing-channel-in-small-boats-hits-new-high

    Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?

    Same sort of reason Cameron went early on the referendum.

    Calm seas sink governments, geographic determinism, there's probably a PhD thesis in it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    R4 are doing their own hustings in a few seats around the country. This morning they were in Bolton. The lab candidate got a roasting over the VAT on school fees issue - I was surprised it was such a big thing as it was probably the biggest issue they played recording of.

    What was most interesting was that they had a group of the voters from the hustings and asked them for one word to describe Sunak and Starmer.

    Sunak got wealthy, desperate (then two more just agreed on that) and manager.

    Starmer got deperate twice, power hungry, cautious and one “I can’t think of anything to describe him”.

    All seemed to agree that nothing is going to get better after the election and that they are being lied to about what’s going to need to be done.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
    So, where on earth has that come from?

    There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    We rarely agree but: absolutely

    London and Paris are probably the two least boring places on earth, along with NYC and the Antarctic Peninsula

    Interestingly, all four show signs of decline

    Any city that you can walk around with ease, enjoy the streetscapes and pop into a bar to get a decent drink or bite to eat is unboring and worth a couple of days of your time, IMO.

    I’m not sure I’ve found a place in the world that is truly boring. Everywhere is interesting


    Even the really really boring places - suburban Cairo? The towns of the Midwest? Newent? - are interesting because I am interested to know why they are so boring

    It’s the attitude of the observer that matters. If you are interested in the world, the world repays that interest by being interesting

    There are a few places I have really struggled with in the US - Atlanta, San Jose and Dallas spring to mind. In Europe Rotterdam is one that I had serious problems with. Then I walked down one of the few streets that survived WW2 and came across the wide river that runs through the city. At that moment I almost physically felt the past. It was quite a moment. You get that quite a lot in Europe.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited June 25
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Interesting news on the Assange potential plea deal.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69145409

    Stella Assange now talks about the legal process that saw Julian Assange leave the UK - remember, he had been in a British prison for more than five years, as he fought extradition to the US.

    Essentially afaics his self-imposed incarceration is being treated as time served, and the whole sentence.

    Generous. A nearby to me Reform candidate will be happy, for whatever reason they referred to pressing for his release to be their number one priority.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
    So, where on earth has that come from?

    There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.

    Kids say it.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861
    DougSeal said:

    Senior Tories call for ban on political bets by MPs after election scandal

    Iain Duncan Smith and Tobias Ellwood make case for new rules as questions raised over £500 wager


    Senior Conservatives and campaigners are calling for a ban on political bets by MPs, as the Gambling Commission was urged to look into another £500 wager connected with the growing election gambling scandal.

    The former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith said parties should examine the rules when parliament returns amid growing outrage over Tory candidates and aides allegedly staking money on politics. The former defence minister Tobias Ellwood also said there should be new restrictions.

    The Conservatives have launched their own inquiry into whether politicians or officials gambled on the timing of the election. Rishi Sunak was forced to deny having placed any bets himself and told reporters he was not aware of any further candidates under scrutiny.

    “We’ve been conducting our own internal inquiries and of course will act on any relevant findings or information from that and pass it on to the Gambling Commission,” he said.

    The Gambling Commission has been urged to investigate a flurry of unusual activity around the time Sunak called the election, an industry source told the Guardian.

    It includes a bet of £504, placed on the Sunday before the election was called, that Sunak would still be PM before the 2024 election. The implication is that the punter may have known that the election call was imminent, thus giving the Tory party no time to replace Sunak.

    Marginal odds meant the punter stood to gain only £35 from the bet. Details of the bet have been provided to the commission by a professional gambler.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/senior-tories-call-for-ban-on-political-bets-by-mps-election-date

    So, Mr Duncan Smith, what was it that converted you to the cause of gambling regulation at this late stage of your government’s life? Not been a priority previously has it?
    Can I place a bet on the horse bolting before the stable door is locked?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain

    There are two in Sidmouth. Opposite each other.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Stereodog said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Beginning to wonder if Newton Abbot could be a 4-way marginal?!

    Am I right /wrong?

    Is there another in the country that could lay claim to that?

    My own seat could.

    But probably, neither of them will. It’s just that we’re unable to discern how the chips are falling, given the shortage of data to work on. Don’t discount the data you do have, however.
    St Neots and Mid Cambs feels that way even though it probably isn’t. It’s a three way marginal but in St Neots a popular former mayor and County Councillor is running hard as an independent. You see more of his signs in St Neots than any other party and I suspect he might top the poll there. As far a I’m aware he’s not campaigning anywhere else in the constituency though so is unlikely to win. I have a nasty feeling that his activities might let the Tories win though.
    I think we've had leaflets through from every candidate now (several from Tory and Lib Dem), and both myself and Mrs J agree that the 'best' was actually by the independent candidate (we're in Cambourne). Quite tempted to vote for him TBH; it'll either be him or the yellow peril.

    Though I've driven and walked/run through St Neots a fair bit recently, and have not seen any placards for the indy. Which probably comes down to the linearity of routes: I'm not running through the 'right' areas...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o

    Has anyone in the civil service ever studied operational research ?

    I appreciate PPE procurement for a pandemic isn't what you'll normally expect in your job but some idea of throughput and ability of the system to utilise PPE might have been a good idea.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
    So, where on earth has that come from?

    There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.

    Kids say it.

    Parents failing the nation once again.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o

    Has anyone in the civil service ever studied operational research ?

    I appreciate PPE procurement for a pandemic isn't what you'll normally expect in your job but some idea of throughput and ability of the system to utilise PPE might have been a good idea.

    Sorry, unless its been demonstrated on The Thick of It, it is beyond their knowledge base.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,566

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
    So, where on earth has that come from?

    There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.
    Yes it is very strange. Like a meme spreading

    There must be some evolutionary reason - something that makes “candy stores” extremely easy to set up and maintain and staff - no need for security, nothing to steal, no training required? - so they can then be used for money laundering. Which is what they clearly are

    I’m less convinced that Turkish barbers are all money laundering. Tho some must be
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    The U.K. would need to build a city the size of London to fix its housing crisis.

    https://x.com/economics/status/1805481564521812463?s=61

    They should build one on the banks of the Humber. North Lincs especially could use some radical redevelopment.
    That's actually a great idea. Already fairly well-connected, plenty of flat, cheap land. Climate not actually too bad (quite dry and sunny).

    Build the Transpennine HS route to support it though.
    I've often cast around for likely locations for new cities and that's one of the least bad locations AFAICS.
    To be honest I have been saying this for years. On here as well. Build a new city in Lincolnshire with dedicated road and rail links to the rest of the country and particularly a reinvestment/refurbushment of Grimsby or Hull docks for exports. Expand Humberside Airport (which already has good links to Amsterdam) and you have the makings of a decent hub.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861
    boulay said:

    R4 are doing their own hustings in a few seats around the country. This morning they were in Bolton. The lab candidate got a roasting over the VAT on school fees issue - I was surprised it was such a big thing as it was probably the biggest issue they played recording of.

    What was most interesting was that they had a group of the voters from the hustings and asked them for one word to describe Sunak and Starmer.

    Sunak got wealthy, desperate (then two more just agreed on that) and manager.

    Starmer got deperate twice, power hungry, cautious and one “I can’t think of anything to describe him”.

    All seemed to agree that nothing is going to get better after the election and that they are being lied to about what’s going to need to be done.

    Maybe the people who turn up to hustings are bright enough to know they are being lied to but not bright enough to know that this is because of voters just like them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,389

    ...Since much of it is entirely performative and achieves nothing except pitching one group against each other the best thing to do is stop talking about it and focus on core economics and social issues that affect everyone...

    Whilst I agree, I don't think the Conservative Party will do that.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    A deal for the Assange issue seems well overdue, but we're going to hear a lot of nonsense about how he was 'detained' in that embassy aren't we?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058
    Taz said:

    JamesF said:

    The more nationalist the party, the more male its support.

    Are there counter examples?

    SNP ?
    The SNP have attracted more women voters as they have become less nationalist and more focused on social issues.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    Weirdly, Ladbrokes still won't let me log in, with Firefox. Works on Edge. Not sure why.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    Leon said:

    O/T As widely predicted:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/24/number-of-people-crossing-channel-in-small-boats-hits-new-high

    Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?

    We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda
    Sorry, cannot accept that. I am not happy clappy, all people are legal, welcome them all in, open borders, like many in Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens are but you cannot risk a single persons life by doing that.

    You also have to have a proper process to allow people to apply to come here rather than risk their lives on boats and then just turn up and disappear into the black economy.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Afghanistan have knocked out Australia, just rejoice at that news.

    The UK, Russia, America and now Australia. Quite a track record!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,971

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    Is the wedding in Paris? I'm in the South at the moment and it seems to be the fashion for English people to get married here. The whole kit and caboodle arrives. AnywaI hope he's chosen wisely and enjoy the wedding! PS I'd go with Edinburgh as my favourite British City
    The wedding is just south of Versailles
    In a chateau
    Which her dad owns.
    He's the conte. ( not easy to say with an Ulster accent )
    I couldn't resist. (An early Alan Parker)

    https://fr.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-domaindev-st_emea&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-st_emea&hspart=domaindev&p=Parker+pen+ad+with+penelope+keith&type=dhm_A0JQ1_set_bfr__alt__ddc_srch_searchpulse_net#id=1&vid=3a288a0ebe2e992b8a134f578e79691b&action=view
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,593

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Fpt

    Interesting piece on Jezza which folk will no doubt accept/reject based on existing views.

    Some valuable takeaways, not least of which is that some voters may not even realise that Corbyn is no longer Labour. Also Labour seem very far from throwing the kitchen sink at Islington North.

    https://tinyurl.com/yc5ukj8j

    I knew I'd given it the kiss of death by reporting that a friend in Islington -a Corbynite- had said he was going to lose!
    My Islington friend, who told me confidently at the beginning of the year that the middle class residents wouldn’t vote for Corbyn so he will lose, now isn’t sure. With a Labour victory nailed on nationally, it’s an easier mini-protest to make.
    There is always a significant personal vote for a well known and established constituency MP. Thats why Starmer has an immense task, needing ~120 gains to get a majority (nearer 140 taking boundary changes into account), whatever the opinion polls say and why I think n.o.m. at 14-1 might be worth a few bob.

    (not advice, do your own research etc...)
    The boundary changes, and all the retirements, mean the "incumbency factor" is negligible.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,811
    Heathener said:

    Beginning to wonder if Newton Abbot could be a 4-way marginal?!

    Am I right /wrong?

    Is there another in the country that could lay claim to that?

    Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber. SNP defending from Tories. But LibDem voting tradition and ex- MP standing. Labour would be outsiders but could get up to the low 20%s with a surge. Not inconceivable that all 4 parties end up in the 20s.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    Leon said:

    O/T As widely predicted:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/24/number-of-people-crossing-channel-in-small-boats-hits-new-high

    Could this be the real reason Sunak daren't delay the GE further?

    We have to start towing them back to France, if no one is prepared to do Rwanda

    Tho I predict Labour - which could easily get crushed by this issue in months - will adopt a form of Rwanda. In fact I expect a Europe wide consensus on this. It will feel less “fash” if everyone does it
    Under what law are we ‘towing people to France’? I am so bored with hearing this stuff.
    If only there was a Europe wide body where political issues could be discussed and where we could develop a ‘Europe wide consensus’. Perhaps someone should develop something the UK could join.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures. Last week I went to the Eras tour on one night and Opera Holland Park for Tosca another, from the wondrous and free treasure of the National Gallery to erotic gay porn at Studio Voltaire in Clapham. From the high priestess of feminist art Judy Chicago at the Serpentine, to Cézanne at the Courthauld. It’s endless and magnificent.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    We rarely agree but: absolutely

    London and Paris are probably the two least boring places on earth, along with NYC and the Antarctic Peninsula

    Interestingly, all four show signs of decline

    Any city that you can walk around with ease, enjoy the streetscapes and pop into a bar to get a decent drink or bite to eat is unboring and worth a couple of days of your time, IMO.

    I’m not sure I’ve found a place in the world that is truly boring. Everywhere is interesting


    Even the really really boring places - suburban Cairo? The towns of the Midwest? Newent? - are interesting because I am interested to know why they are so boring

    It’s the attitude of the observer that matters. If you are interested in the world, the world repays that interest by being interesting
    I agree with this but I would mention Singapore. It's not boring exactly but it's Disneyland made into a city.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Roger said:

    Fun in France. The New Popular Front are having to go out of their way to say its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon will not be the Prime Minister if they win. While he leads the alliance he is not that popular with the electorate.


    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/jean-luc-melenchon-l-impopulaire-du-nouveau-front-de-gauche-20240624

    It's always fun in Paris. Time to put the computer down. Start at the Musee d'Orsay and take a Bateaux Mouche...the good life doesn't end at Stoke-on-Trent.
    Musee d'Orsay is the best place in Paris. the rest of it is boring, like London. Though I did enjoy Notre Dame the exhibition on the rebuilding was really interesting you could sit on the stands and watch the roof being rebuilt bit by bit. I'm in Les Yvelines next week and can only enthuse myself to go to Paris as Im meeting an old friend for lunch.
    London and Paris are boring?

    Wow. Just wow.
    I accept youre easily impressed and dont get out much.
    Oh Alan why do you slip so readily into Ad Hominem? Ask yourself this, no need to reply.

    It’s because I go out stacks that I don’t find London and Paris boring. There is sooooooo much to do. So many amazing galleries, fantastic eating, brilliant concerts. It’s a cornucopia of sensory pleasures.

    You can, literally, spend every single night of the year out in London and never do the same thing twice. Amazing city.
    That sort of depends what interests you. Chasing Candy Crush stores or overpriced restaurants isnt my bag. Ive worked in Paris long enough to treat it with the contempt it deserves and London just isnt me. I like Berlin, Prague Barcelona they are interesting. However I much prefer the countryside and landscape so much more to appreciate.
    I can't see an American Candy Store without assuming it's a money laundering operation.

    They seem to be everywhere now, well stocked, but there's never anyone in them.
    Interestingly - !! - they aren’t just a london thing. Lots in Paris too. And Spain
    So, where on earth has that come from?

    There aren't that many - if any - Americans here and, "what I really want and need is lots of American Candy!!", said no-one - ever.

    Kids say it.

    Mine don't, and I have two.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    A very mature and good response from Wes Streeting on the trans issue I thought.

    I do think Labour will put the culture wars to one side, which can only be a good thing.

    I wonder if he will support these women who have been abandoned by their own union, forced to change in front of a man.

    https://x.com/treesey/status/1805219358676812103?s=61
    Morning. Just out of interest who are you voting for?

    I’ve already voted Labour for transparency.
    Morning

    I have said I would not vote. Especially as Labour just parachuted a candidate in here and took the areas for granted.

    However I have quite liked Luke Akehurst's twitter campaign and his campaign stops as well as his attempts to eat his way around North Durham including a few places I have eaten, so I may well end up voting labour after all for the 10th consecutive election
    Respect your choice to not vote but also to vote for Akehurst if you like what he's doing.

    I wish I had abstained in 2019.
    Akehurst seems to attract some really deranged responses on twitter too.

    He actually seems quite personable too and is bothering to get out and speak to people in the seat daily. His reputation precedes him. I hope he can do something positive for the seat.

    I will either vote Akehurst or not bother. At the moment I am leaning towards Akehurst. I had said I may vote Green as the guy has a hoopy name. But the Green campaign has been batshit central so it's a no from me.
This discussion has been closed.