Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The Tory party has realised a major can of whoop-ass is about to be opened on them

1246

Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    This pitch is a fucking disgrace
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
  • IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    When it’s 9am on July 5th and the Tories have won 40 seats, some people will still be saying “I think they’ll end up on 150-200”

    I think they’ll end up on 150-200.
    However, I will come here and tell you I was wrong if your 40 seats 9am thing, or similar, comes to pass.
    It depends on whether you think Big G is a straw in the wind, or simply a random guy under the thumb of his wife.
    The former. Centrist "wet" Tories won't take a chance if they think a split vote will let Farages man in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon all. The betting story is extraordinary. Especially the withdrawal of that Cons betting Ad.

    There must be a Labour mole in CCHQ.

    Or a God.

    Or both.

    I genuinely believe there is a Labour mole at CCHQ

    The utter crassness of Sunak's tweets make no sense otherwise

    "Buy British food"

    "Let's hear it for good old British bus stops!"

    "I like shirts!"
    Could be a Reform mole?
    Good point. Either that otr they have actually employed a cretin

    Honestly, my ZX Spectrum back in 1981 could do better tweets than Rishi Sunak's TwiX account
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited June 20
    I realise it falls under "nice problem to have" but a mahoosive Labour majority is going to create an opposition problem which will be awkward even for SKS Fans.

    If the official opposition is 100 Tories then it is, probably, not the brightest and best of them. And they're not going to be doing a lot of opposing, at least for the first two years while they're in full-on recrimination mode with and choosing a new leader.

    Or if the official opposition is 60 LibDems then it's going to be genuinely difficult to fill all the shadow minister posts, especially given that most of them will have no experience of being an MP.

    Both of these sound good for Labour, but the media - understandably - seeks out conflict. And if the opposition isn't generating those stories, reporters are going to start looking for conflict within Labour. (Gotta fill those pages somehow.) All of a sudden, Jared O'Trotsky, the incompletely vetted surprise Labour MP for Lower Stinchcombe on Thames, has a megaphone he wasn't expecting.

    I'm sure Sue Gray has been wargaming this for weeks, but Labour on 500 seats is not an easy situation for anyone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited June 20
    Farooq said:

    O/T: How does the curtis exit poll deal with postal votes?

    You know, I was just wondering exactly that too.

    Answers on a postcard? :lol:
    It’s a potential weakness, but the simple answer is that they try to use the same polling stations each time and hope that any shift in the polling station voters is mirrored amongst those voting by post. In other words, the change in votes since the previous election, compared to the previous result in that seat, is more important than the absolute numbers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Actually, I think my granny's breadbin from 1969 could write better tweets that Rishi Sunak
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,283
    Andy_JS said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I looked at the MRP averages vs the same pollsters normal polls (a sample of 5)

    So, here are the national MRP averages and how they compare with the ordinary polls
    MRP averages:
    Con 24.4 (+3.0 compared with normal polls)
    Lab 42.0 (+1.6)
    LD 11.2 (0)
    SNP 3.2 (+0.2)
    Grn 5.6 (-0.6)
    Ref 12.0 (-2.0)
    Others Inc PC 1.6 (-2.2)

    There's a small discrepancy because Survation quote UK not GB on their normal polls, but even allowing for that it looks like there is about a 4-5% transfer of votes from challenger parties to incumbent parties overall inherent in the MRP process.

    How do you get Reform on just 14% with normal polls?
    Just an average of 5 polls including an aged 9% from IPSOS (but their MRP itself isn't the newest). I'm betting their next poll won't be 9%.

    I have the overall 18 pollster (18!) average for Reform as 16%.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242
    This England...


  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon all. The betting story is extraordinary. Especially the withdrawal of that Cons betting Ad.

    There must be a Labour mole in CCHQ.

    Or a God.

    Or both.

    I genuinely believe there is a Labour mole at CCHQ

    The utter crassness of Sunak's tweets make no sense otherwise

    "Buy British food"

    "Let's hear it for good old British bus stops!"

    "I like shirts!"
    Could be a Reform mole?
    Good point. Either that otr they have actually employed a cretin

    Either or?, same person could be both!

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Now England will sit back on their 1-0 lead and hope to battle through to the end, protecting that goal
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 182

    I realise it falls under "nice problem to have" but a mahoosive Labour majority is going to create an opposition problem which will be awkward even for SKS Fans.

    If the official opposition is 100 Tories then it is, probably, not the brightest and best of them. And they're not going to be doing a lot of opposing, at least for the first two years while they're in full-on recrimination mode with and choosing a new leader.

    Or if the official opposition is 60 LibDems then it's going to be genuinely difficult to fill all the shadow minister posts, especially given that most of them will have no experience of being an MP.

    Both of these sound good for Labour, but the media - understandably - seeks out conflict. And if the opposition isn't generating those stories, reporters are going to start looking for conflict within Labour. (Gotta fill those pages somehow.) All of a sudden, Jared O'Trotsky, the incompletely vetted surprise Labour MP for Lower Stinchcombe on Thames, has a megaphone he wasn't expecting.

    I'm sure Sue Gray has been wargaming this for weeks, but Labour on 500 seats is not an easy situation for anyone.

    How many Labour coop MPs are there? Genuinely don’t know but might it be more than 100?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    I agree with Michael.

    Truss to blame if Tories lose election, suggests Gove

    Housing Secretary says former PM’s disastrous mini-budget challenged party’s reputation for ‘sound economic management’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/20/michael-gove-says-liz-truss-to-blame-for-election-loss/

    Such a shame, after such reputation was so very carefully guarded during the clown’s time in office.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Labour are obviously going to win the election and probably with a record landslide but if they do poll in the 30s on election day it probably spells trouble for them in government, especially when you consider SKS has always been a relatively unpopular LOTO and certainly isn't coming to power on a wave of goodwill.

    Sorry. I like a lot of what you post but this is utter rubbish.
    Lets revisit in 2027 ;)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I don't get the press going for the 'flurry of bets' data. Its millions of pounds. Are we seriously to believe the Tories managed to tell hundreds of punters but nobody in the press knew? Surely it was off the back of that press report about the planning meeting for a snap election the week before?
    Obviously the individuals under investigation are another matter.......

    Posting on here obscures the fact that betting on politics is quite niche. A small number of bets has an outsized effect.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812
    edited June 20
    SteveS said:

    I realise it falls under "nice problem to have" but a mahoosive Labour majority is going to create an opposition problem which will be awkward even for SKS Fans.

    If the official opposition is 100 Tories then it is, probably, not the brightest and best of them. And they're not going to be doing a lot of opposing, at least for the first two years while they're in full-on recrimination mode with and choosing a new leader.

    Or if the official opposition is 60 LibDems then it's going to be genuinely difficult to fill all the shadow minister posts, especially given that most of them will have no experience of being an MP.

    Both of these sound good for Labour, but the media - understandably - seeks out conflict. And if the opposition isn't generating those stories, reporters are going to start looking for conflict within Labour. (Gotta fill those pages somehow.) All of a sudden, Jared O'Trotsky, the incompletely vetted surprise Labour MP for Lower Stinchcombe on Thames, has a megaphone he wasn't expecting.

    I'm sure Sue Gray has been wargaming this for weeks, but Labour on 500 seats is not an easy situation for anyone.

    How many Labour coop MPs are there? Genuinely don’t know but might it be more than 100?
    26, says Wiki - or rather, there *were* to be pedantic. Surprised it's so few myself.

    Depending on how well they do vis-a-vis the LDs and SNP, there might be a temptation ...
  • rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,283
    edited June 20
    SteveS said:

    I realise it falls under "nice problem to have" but a mahoosive Labour majority is going to create an opposition problem which will be awkward even for SKS Fans.

    If the official opposition is 100 Tories then it is, probably, not the brightest and best of them. And they're not going to be doing a lot of opposing, at least for the first two years while they're in full-on recrimination mode with and choosing a new leader.

    Or if the official opposition is 60 LibDems then it's going to be genuinely difficult to fill all the shadow minister posts, especially given that most of them will have no experience of being an MP.

    Both of these sound good for Labour, but the media - understandably - seeks out conflict. And if the opposition isn't generating those stories, reporters are going to start looking for conflict within Labour. (Gotta fill those pages somehow.) All of a sudden, Jared O'Trotsky, the incompletely vetted surprise Labour MP for Lower Stinchcombe on Thames, has a megaphone he wasn't expecting.

    I'm sure Sue Gray has been wargaming this for weeks, but Labour on 500 seats is not an easy situation for anyone.

    How many Labour coop MPs are there? Genuinely don’t know but might it be more than 100?
    They are usually sensible types, but I'm sure there'll be a divvy amongst them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Labour are obviously going to win the election and probably with a record landslide but if they do poll in the 30s on election day it probably spells trouble for them in government, especially when you consider SKS has always been a relatively unpopular LOTO and certainly isn't coming to power on a wave of goodwill.

    Sorry. I like a lot of what you post but this is utter rubbish.
    Talking of things that aren’t rubbish, I trust you have taken a look at the YouGov MRP for Newton Abbot, which is based upon combining the responses from its panel members in each seat with its national model. Labour is vying for third or fourth place with Reform.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    GIN1138 said:

    Labour are obviously going to win the election and probably with a record landslide but if they do poll in the 30s on election day it probably spells trouble for them in government, especially when you consider SKS has always been a relatively unpopular LOTO and certainly isn't coming to power on a wave of goodwill.

    The same shit is coming for Starmer, he's just 2-3 years behind the curve.
    Counterpoint would be 2010 & 2015 and Cameron and Osborne. Lots of us who don't like Tory governments thought they were likely to be one and done given again, weren't overly popular and rode in on "Time for a change" and splits on the left as opposed to the right. The person whose Starmer's leadership ratings have most resembled over the years - Cameron's.

    They never were particularly popular, but won another election, largely based on the idea that they'd had a tough inheritance and needed to be given the chance to "finish the job" of fixing things (though didn't fix much and did a lot that eventually turned out to be counterproductive).

    Starmer and Reeves won't necessarily have to solve the problems they inherit. Just show progress to the public and a few wins for supporters. Low expectations may even help, as any surprises on the upside (even if they have little to do with decisions they've made) will be greeted more positively than might've been if people expected the world. Similarly, any crisis handled with a measure of competence will compare favourably to recent chaos.

    They'll get some grace for doing the worst messes and low hanging fruit but, as with C & O the real danger will likely be in a second term when people bank whatever successes they have and start pulling in different directions and demanding the big stuff they want that agreed to initially defer.

    But then if things haven't changed for the better in 10 years will deserve to go.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,171
    Leon said:

    GARETH SOUTHGATE YOU GENIUS

    Not only a fundamentally decent man, but he's taken a bunch of average players, and turned them into a piercing and elegant team, full of fight

    I think the players are above average, particularly the ones further forward
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Bollocks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    SOUTHGATE YOU MORON
  • Leon said:

    Now England will sit back on their 1-0 lead and hope to battle through to the end, protecting that goal

    That aged well.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Oh dear. 1-1.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Well, we have a few constituency polls for the Red Wall, such as the Hartlepool one, and they show the Labour vote well up on 2019.

    Here's the thing: let's assume that Labour does no better in those seats than four and a half years ago (which looks very unlikely), and let's assume that 90% of the Conservative + all of the Brexit Party vote goes to Reform... well, you still end up with a large number of Labour gains.

    Right now, the Left has got tactical voting, as they did in 1997. While the Right is suffering from Alliance 1983 disease.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    1:1
  • For pity's sake, England.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Can’t argue with that. Great goal, sadly.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    England take lead. England sit back. Now 1:1.

    So tedious
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Pulpstar said:

    First seat to declare - Ashington and Blyth followed by Houghton then Sunderland Central and Washington ?

    Ooh. Is Blyth and Ashington going for first?
    It's my new seat. Will feel like a winner! Come on.
    Should give a steer for Reform strength/Tory weakness.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Pickford could have saved that. Maybe slightly unsighted.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    NOM 12:1 at Ladbrokes at the moment
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Oh no! Now angry England fans won't vote for Rishi!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Yet again, England sat back after scoring. They don't seem able to do anything else

    They lack a killer instinct, the follow up punch, the knee in the jaw after the punch in the stomach

    They will qualify simply because it is so hard to not qualify but they will go out in the quarters, ad always, and thus Southgate's pathetic loser-y leadership will come to a dismal close
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,171
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    GARETH SOUTHGATE YOU GENIUS

    Not only a fundamentally decent man, but he's taken a bunch of average players, and turned them into a piercing and elegant team, full of fight

    I think the players are above average, particularly the ones further forward
    Maybe not the defense mind
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    5-1 England I reckon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
    I love my country, but Southgate builds teams with a loser mentality
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1803804076150276435

    The corrupt Tories are now fully exposed by this betting data. Reform must replace them.

    If you go onto getty images there should be footage on Farage placing a bet that his party will win an election. I forget which one.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Ghedebrav said:

    5-1 England I reckon.

    Fancy a bet on that?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon all. The betting story is extraordinary. Especially the withdrawal of that Cons betting Ad.

    There must be a Labour mole in CCHQ.

    Or a God.

    Or both.

    I genuinely believe there is a Labour mole at CCHQ

    The utter crassness of Sunak's tweets make no sense otherwise

    "Buy British food"

    "Let's hear it for good old British bus stops!"

    "I like shirts!"
    Could be a Reform mole?
    The LD mole only lasted 47 days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I looked at the MRP averages vs the same pollsters normal polls (a sample of 5)

    So, here are the national MRP averages and how they compare with the ordinary polls
    MRP averages:
    Con 24.4 (+3.0 compared with normal polls)
    Lab 42.0 (+1.6)
    LD 11.2 (0)
    SNP 3.2 (+0.2)
    Grn 5.6 (-0.6)
    Ref 12.0 (-2.0)
    Others Inc PC 1.6 (-2.2)

    There's a small discrepancy because Survation quote UK not GB on their normal polls, but even allowing for that it looks like there is about a 4-5% transfer of votes from challenger parties to incumbent parties overall inherent in the MRP process.

    How do you get Reform on just 14% with normal polls?
    Just an average of 5 polls including an aged 9% from IPSOS (but their MRP itself isn't the newest). I'm betting their next poll won't be 9%.

    I have the overall 18 pollster (18!) average for Reform as 16%.
    Are you including polls that are more than about 10 days old? Because I think that's a bit dodgy during an election campaign.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Well, we have a few constituency polls for the Red Wall, such as the Hartlepool one, and they show the Labour vote well up on 2019.

    Here's the thing: let's assume that Labour does no better in those seats than four and a half years ago (which looks very unlikely), and let's assume that 90% of the Conservative + all of the Brexit Party vote goes to Reform... well, you still end up with a large number of Labour gains.

    Right now, the Left has got tactical voting, as they did in 1997. While the Right is suffering from Alliance 1983 disease.

    Still amazes me that the Tories won places like Blyth in the first place.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T: How does the curtis exit poll deal with postal votes?

    "What about postal voting?

    People who vote by post are not included in exit polls. This is potentially a source of bias, if the pattern of vote-changing among postal voters differs appreciably from the vote-changing behaviour of those who use a polling station. This does not seem to have been a major problem yet for prediction from exit polls, but if registration to vote by post continues to increase it could become so. For a bit more detail on how postal voting is accounted for, see Sec 2.2 of Curtice and Firth (2008)."

    https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/statistics/staff/academic-research/firth/exit-poll-explainer/


    "2.2. Postal voting

    The problem of selecting polling locations for an exit poll in Britain is long standing, but in 2005 a new problem presented a potentially more fundamental challenge. Exit polls can of course only acquire information from those who actually attend a polling station to vote. If a significant proportion do not vote in person but rather vote, say, by post, then it may no longer be the case that those who vote in person are representative of all those who vote at that station."

    https://academic.oup.com/jrsssa/article/171/3/509/7085116
    IF there any basic similarity re: postal voting in UK and absentee voting in USA, then might assume that in dear Old Blighty, the average gone-postal voter is older than non-postals.

    In WA State, where every election is all-vote-by-mail, albeit with many voters returning their ballots via drop boxes rather than by USPS, those who return their ballots EARLY in the process are definitely older than those who wait until just before Election Day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Absolutely nowt is going on in Blyth and Ashington, election wise.
    But all pollsters are picking up big swings to Labour in the Northeast.
    Important to note. Blyth Valley, which went Tory last time does not exist. B+A consists of the Labour half of BV, and the Labour half of Wansbeck (which doesn't exist either).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Well.

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: The SNP is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over the alleged inappropriate use of public money to fund the party’s general election campaign

    It follows claims that stamps paid for by expenses have been passed to SNP candidates to distribute leaflets to constituents

    The complaint, which appears to have been made by an SNP staff member, was sent to Alison Johnstone, Holyrood’s presiding officer, alongside a screenshot of an internal discussion between some of the party’s office managers

    The leaked screenshot depicts a snapshot of a conversation of a WhatsApp group, called “Office Manager Chat”, which appears to have a timer for messages to be automatically deleted

    One individual, who is named as “Paul” in the conversation, posted a message that read: “Guys, the new stamps. Can they be traced?”

    Asked by a staff member who works in the office of Nicola Sturgeon, the former first minister, whether he was referring to “who purchased them and what they’re being used for”, the person who wrote the first message responded: “Can they be traced back to who purchased them?”

    A member of SNP deputy leader Keith Brown’s office said she had “asked Rab in the mailroom and he said no”

    Another staff member said they were not aware of the stamps being traceable. Someone from the office of Shirley-Anne Somerville, the social justice secretary, replied: “If they can then a few people may be up in front of corporate body…”

    Holyrood’s corporate body is a small cross-party group that oversees the running of the parliament and the enforcement of rules, including around expenses

    MSPs are allowed to spend up to £5,500 a year on postage and stationery. The parliament’s rules state that they “must be used only for parliamentary duties and must not be used for any other purpose, including party political purposes”

    It is understood that Holyrood officials are examining the claims and are likely to question those linked to the allegations


    https://x.com/timesscotland/status/1803829013040771126
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061
    SteveS said:

    I realise it falls under "nice problem to have" but a mahoosive Labour majority is going to create an opposition problem which will be awkward even for SKS Fans.

    If the official opposition is 100 Tories then it is, probably, not the brightest and best of them. And they're not going to be doing a lot of opposing, at least for the first two years while they're in full-on recrimination mode with and choosing a new leader.

    Or if the official opposition is 60 LibDems then it's going to be genuinely difficult to fill all the shadow minister posts, especially given that most of them will have no experience of being an MP.

    Both of these sound good for Labour, but the media - understandably - seeks out conflict. And if the opposition isn't generating those stories, reporters are going to start looking for conflict within Labour. (Gotta fill those pages somehow.) All of a sudden, Jared O'Trotsky, the incompletely vetted surprise Labour MP for Lower Stinchcombe on Thames, has a megaphone he wasn't expecting.

    I'm sure Sue Gray has been wargaming this for weeks, but Labour on 500 seats is not an easy situation for anyone.

    How many Labour coop MPs are there? Genuinely don’t know but might it be more than 100?
    26 MPs in Westminster
    11 Members of Scottish Parliament
    16 Welsh Parliament Members
    5 Metro Mayors

    and

    900+ Councillors across the UK

    https://party.coop/about/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon all. The betting story is extraordinary. Especially the withdrawal of that Cons betting Ad.

    There must be a Labour mole in CCHQ.

    Or a God.

    Or both.

    I genuinely believe there is a Labour mole at CCHQ

    The utter crassness of Sunak's tweets make no sense otherwise

    "Buy British food"

    "Let's hear it for good old British bus stops!"

    "I like shirts!"
    Not surprising since we know that almost everyone living and working in central London is anti-Tory these days.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
    You don’t have to understand all that much psychology to appreciate that, whatever it is that Leon is running away from, it isn’t the British weather.
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    edited June 20

    GIN1138 said:

    Labour are obviously going to win the election and probably with a record landslide but if they do poll in the 30s on election day it probably spells trouble for them in government, especially when you consider SKS has always been a relatively unpopular LOTO and certainly isn't coming to power on a wave of goodwill.

    The same shit is coming for Starmer, he's just 2-3 years behind the curve.
    As well as having the largest gains, given his lack of connection with the elctorate, Starmer could also hold the record for the biggest losses come the next election.
    You Righties really are like spoilt kids, Lost, stomping your feet, crying life the electoral system isn't fair, believing in fairy tales. Mummy tells you that one day the bogeyman will take away nasty Mr Starmer and the nightmare will be over. Stick the dummy in and go back to sleep.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    God, we're shit
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    England = Starmer
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
    That doesn't make sense. England is my favourite place in the world, but I'm not blind to its faults. And an underachieving football team staffed by some.of the least likeable people in the country is one of them.
    It's no more unpatriotic to complain about the football team than to complain about the trains.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    Am I missing something the YOUGov poll tonight shows the Cons DOWN 2% on yesterdays.
    The future looks black the future is Reform, hell
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,209

    Well.

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: The SNP is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over the alleged inappropriate use of public money to fund the party’s general election campaign

    It follows claims that stamps paid for by expenses have been passed to SNP candidates to distribute leaflets to constituents

    The complaint, which appears to have been made by an SNP staff member, was sent to Alison Johnstone, Holyrood’s presiding officer, alongside a screenshot of an internal discussion between some of the party’s office managers

    The leaked screenshot depicts a snapshot of a conversation of a WhatsApp group, called “Office Manager Chat”, which appears to have a timer for messages to be automatically deleted

    One individual, who is named as “Paul” in the conversation, posted a message that read: “Guys, the new stamps. Can they be traced?”

    Asked by a staff member who works in the office of Nicola Sturgeon, the former first minister, whether he was referring to “who purchased them and what they’re being used for”, the person who wrote the first message responded: “Can they be traced back to who purchased them?”

    A member of SNP deputy leader Keith Brown’s office said she had “asked Rab in the mailroom and he said no”

    Another staff member said they were not aware of the stamps being traceable. Someone from the office of Shirley-Anne Somerville, the social justice secretary, replied: “If they can then a few people may be up in front of corporate body…”

    Holyrood’s corporate body is a small cross-party group that oversees the running of the parliament and the enforcement of rules, including around expenses

    MSPs are allowed to spend up to £5,500 a year on postage and stationery. The parliament’s rules state that they “must be used only for parliamentary duties and must not be used for any other purpose, including party political purposes”

    It is understood that Holyrood officials are examining the claims and are likely to question those linked to the allegations


    https://x.com/timesscotland/status/1803829013040771126

    You know that poor genie that was having to grant Starmer infinite wishes?

    It hasn't escaped to go and live with @RochdalePioneers by any chance?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588
    boulay said:

    With all the focus on the Faragists trying to do a reverse takeover of the Tories after the election, maybe we are overlooking the possibility of the Cameroons trying to do a reverse takeover of the Lib Dems.

    As long as we get the Leftier Lib Dems doing a reverse takeover of Labour and the Corbynites doing a reverse takeover of Reform so a nice circular movement of half of each party one step to the left leaving Reform as some sort of new-fangled nationalist but socialist party - just might work.
    Let's do the Time Warp agaaa-aaaain!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619

    England = Starmer

    England are about to win their biggest victory in history in the next few weeks?

    I'll take that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1803804076150276435

    The corrupt Tories are now fully exposed by this betting data. Reform must replace them.

    If you go onto Getty Images there should be footage on Farage placing a bet that his party will win an election. I forget which one.

    2016: Farage in Ladbrokes: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/referendum-campaign-days-events-immigration-and-economy-news-footage/643893520

    2019: Farage in StarSports: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/brexit-party-leader-nigel-farage-walks-past-a-screen-in-a-news-photo/1136410507

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
    You don’t have to understand all that much psychology to appreciate that, whatever it is that Leon is running away from, it isn’t the British weather.
    No, it's definitely the weather, plus a load of other things

    Partly it's boredom. Britain is..... uh, ah, sorry - boring?

    Or maybe I should say I PERSONALLY find it a little boring, now (tho this election is fun)

    You have one life, it's a wonderful world out there, I am paid to explore it, I love it
  • Well.

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: The SNP is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over the alleged inappropriate use of public money to fund the party’s general election campaign

    One individual, who is named as “Paul” in the conversation, posted a message that read: “Guys, the new stamps. Can they be traced?”

    https://x.com/timesscotland/status/1803829013040771126

    The stupidity amazes me. You might as well write I am cheating in six foot high red letters on Stonehenge and sign it with your full address as write it on whatsapp (or any other electric media).

    Mind you. Having gone from constant phones ringing in an office to rare phones ringing and a deluge of emails , half of them unnecessary cc's, one advantage is that having emailed, the bu**ers cant deny saying it like they could with a phone call.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619

    Well.

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: The SNP is being investigated by parliamentary authorities over the alleged inappropriate use of public money to fund the party’s general election campaign

    It follows claims that stamps paid for by expenses have been passed to SNP candidates to distribute leaflets to constituents

    The complaint, which appears to have been made by an SNP staff member, was sent to Alison Johnstone, Holyrood’s presiding officer, alongside a screenshot of an internal discussion between some of the party’s office managers

    The leaked screenshot depicts a snapshot of a conversation of a WhatsApp group, called “Office Manager Chat”, which appears to have a timer for messages to be automatically deleted

    One individual, who is named as “Paul” in the conversation, posted a message that read: “Guys, the new stamps. Can they be traced?”

    Asked by a staff member who works in the office of Nicola Sturgeon, the former first minister, whether he was referring to “who purchased them and what they’re being used for”, the person who wrote the first message responded: “Can they be traced back to who purchased them?”

    A member of SNP deputy leader Keith Brown’s office said she had “asked Rab in the mailroom and he said no”

    Another staff member said they were not aware of the stamps being traceable. Someone from the office of Shirley-Anne Somerville, the social justice secretary, replied: “If they can then a few people may be up in front of corporate body…”

    Holyrood’s corporate body is a small cross-party group that oversees the running of the parliament and the enforcement of rules, including around expenses

    MSPs are allowed to spend up to £5,500 a year on postage and stationery. The parliament’s rules state that they “must be used only for parliamentary duties and must not be used for any other purpose, including party political purposes”

    It is understood that Holyrood officials are examining the claims and are likely to question those linked to the allegations


    https://x.com/timesscotland/status/1803829013040771126

    You know that poor genie that was having to grant Starmer infinite wishes?

    It hasn't escaped to go and live with @RochdalePioneers by any chance?
    Looks like it.

    Just need for Nicola Sturgeon to be charged in the next fortnight and we'll know that genie is real.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,240
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1803804076150276435

    The corrupt Tories are now fully exposed by this betting data. Reform must replace them.

    If you go onto getty images there should be footage on Farage placing a bet that his party will win an election. I forget which one.

    That would only be a problem if he knew the result of an election (eg from inside the counting room) before it had been announced
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1803804076150276435

    The corrupt Tories are now fully exposed by this betting data. Reform must replace them.

    If you go onto Getty Images there should be footage on Farage placing a bet that his party will win an election. I forget which one.

    2016: Farage in Ladbrokes: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/referendum-campaign-days-events-immigration-and-economy-news-footage/643893520

    2019: Farage in StarSports: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/brexit-party-leader-nigel-farage-walks-past-a-screen-in-a-news-photo/1136410507

    Not really the same thing though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    Leon said:

    Now England will sit back on their 1-0 lead and hope to battle through to the end, protecting that goal

    That worked well, Danish goal must be the goal of the tournament, what a cracker. No lucky deflections for them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    edited June 20
    theakes said:

    Am I missing something the YOUGov poll tonight shows the Cons DOWN 2% on yesterdays.
    The future looks black the future is Reform, hell

    22% was an MRP, 20% was a normal poll.
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    @Leon knows fuck all about football.

    It is the complete opposite. Southgate has taken a group of outstanding individuals and made an average team.

    EVERY SINGLE 3 LIONS FAN KNOWS THIS, YOU MORON.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    After today's YG

    I’m a lifelong fan of SKS and it pains me to say this, any other leader would be 20 points ahead of the worst government of all time, he simply must go!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,616
    edited June 20
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Absolutely nowt is going on in Blyth and Ashington, election wise.
    But all pollsters are picking up big swings to Labour in the Northeast.
    Important to note. Blyth Valley, which went Tory last time does not exist. B+A consists of the Labour half of BV, and the Labour half of Wansbeck (which doesn't exist either).
    It's not just the Tory activists being pulled back to the safest of seats. I know that Lab have called for canvassing in Rutland and Stamford which on some measures is the 10th safest Tory seat in the country.

    @Sandpit might well have 10 000 reasons to be nervous, but to me it seems a bit out of reach for Labour. I think they are deliberately stretching the invisible Tory machine.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Yougov provide useful information on their voting intention tracker page on the underlying polls. https://yougov.co.uk/_pubapis/v5/uk/trackers/voting-intention/download/

    If you select the Conservative tab you can see movement for 2019 conservative voters for each poll. Similarly for the labour tab and the Lib dem tab.

    Over the past 14 days the Conservative 2019 voters are
    C 49 (+3)
    L 8 (-4)
    LD 6(+1)
    R 32 (-2)

    So a slight move back to Conservatives from Labour.

    Labour 2019 voters
    C 3(+2)
    L 70(-9)
    LD 11(+6)
    R 10(+1)

    So a clear shift from Labour to Lib Dems (tactical voting?)

    Lib Dem 2019 voters
    C 11(+4)
    L 23(-5)
    LD 56(+1)
    R 6(-1)

    So a shift to Conservatives and a shift from Labour.

    Subsampling. Again.

    Unweighted. Ergo, nonsense.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Imagine that. You have Rice, Trent, foden, Kane, Bellingham all in the same 10 metre share area and there is no space and no options to play out. Kane needs to drop the hero complex and stay up as the outlet. Foden is wasted and they need Gordon on the wing stretching it and running at pace. I’m so gutted Southgate won’t be going to Man Utd after this.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    @Leon knows fuck all about football.

    It is the complete opposite. Southgate has taken a group of outstanding individuals and made an average team.

    EVERY SINGLE 3 LIONS FAN KNOWS THIS, YOU MORON.

    This has been the point Leon has been making for at least the last four years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1803804076150276435

    The corrupt Tories are now fully exposed by this betting data. Reform must replace them.

    If you go onto Getty Images there should be footage on Farage placing a bet that his party will win an election. I forget which one.

    2016: Farage in Ladbrokes: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/referendum-campaign-days-events-immigration-and-economy-news-footage/643893520

    2019: Farage in StarSports: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/brexit-party-leader-nigel-farage-walks-past-a-screen-in-a-news-photo/1136410507

    Presumably betting on himself for a future event in the hands of the voters, rather than an event in which he was in the room when the outcome was decided?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Leon said:

    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit

    I have absolutely no idea why we stick with Southgate. Tactically inept. Boring.

    Just awful
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    It never ceases to amaze that these guys can score hat tricks, run at defences and defend for their lives in the Premier League, yet put them in an England shirt and they lose all their talents.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    @Leon knows fuck all about football.

    It is the complete opposite. Southgate has taken a group of outstanding individuals and made an average team.

    EVERY SINGLE 3 LIONS FAN KNOWS THIS, YOU MORON.

    You don't really do irony, sarcasm, wit or the like, do you?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    theakes said:

    Am I missing something the YOUGov poll tonight shows the Cons DOWN 2% on yesterdays.
    The future looks black the future is Reform, hell

    One is an MRP ie yesterday's.

    The other, ie today's, is a traditional VI poll using the adjustments in line with the MRP assumptions.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    It never ceases to amaze that these guys can score hat tricks, run at defences and defend for their lives in the Premier League, yet put them in an England shirt and they lose all their talents.

    Because the manager isn’t up to it
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    What Cons need is PROPORTIONAL representation much better than moaning all the time, join the campaign.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 20
    Have they really defaced the Brandenburg Gate with a giant goalpost?

    Last time I was there it had cars driving through it and if you walked to Potsdammer Platz you could pick up wall chippings off the road where the wall that ran down the middle of it had been knocked down but they hadn't got round to resurfacing it yet.

    Potsdamer Platz waz like a grass field with a somewhat uneven and bendy road tarmaced from one side to the other.

    Another world.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Sky told by a gambling commission source that more names likely to be released over betting but aside from the protection officer the police are not at this stage involved
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    My pub is now playing “Three Lions” on the PA.

    At the next World Cup, that line “30 years of hurt” will be 30 years old.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    Leon said:

    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit

    I have absolutely no idea why we stick with Southgate. Tactically inept. Boring.

    Just awful
    Most successful manager since 1966

    Southgate that is not SKS
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Well, we have a few constituency polls for the Red Wall, such as the Hartlepool one, and they show the Labour vote well up on 2019.

    Here's the thing: let's assume that Labour does no better in those seats than four and a half years ago (which looks very unlikely), and let's assume that 90% of the Conservative + all of the Brexit Party vote goes to Reform... well, you still end up with a large number of Labour gains.

    Right now, the Left has got tactical voting, as they did in 1997. While the Right is suffering from Alliance 1983 disease.

    Still amazes me that the Tories won places like Blyth in the first place.
    Blyth today is very different to Blyth 30 years ago. Lots of new private houses.
    But still - I agree.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    It never ceases to amaze that these guys can score hat tricks, run at defences and defend for their lives in the Premier League, yet put them in an England shirt and they lose all their talents.

    Because the manager isn’t up to it
    It's not just Southgate though, it is always a tragedy when England score first as they then try to defend a one goal advantage for the rest of the game rather than seek a second.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    England will be lucky to scrape a draw here, but I suspect a defeat

    2-1

    You hate this country
    You don’t have to understand all that much psychology to appreciate that, whatever it is that Leon is running away from, it isn’t the British weather.
    No, it's definitely the weather, plus a load of other things

    Partly it's boredom. Britain is..... uh, ah, sorry - boring?

    Or maybe I should say I PERSONALLY find it a little boring, now (tho this election is fun)

    You have one life, it's a wonderful world out there, I am paid to explore it, I love it
    For sure, travel usually broadens the mind.

    Why you are so immune, remains a mystery.

    Maybe because wandering around an airport looking for some driver on minimum wage holding up a piece of cardboard with “Sean Twat” written on it isn’t really proper travel.

    Fact remains, most PB’ers can see that your desire to become a global nomad and escape your homeland has very little to do with our weather.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit

    I have absolutely no idea why we stick with Southgate. Tactically inept. Boring.

    Just awful
    Because he's a "fundamentally decent guy" and he used to wear a waistcoat and taking the knee and all that shite

    I mean, he probably is a lovely chap. He also earns several trillion quid. As soon as they re-appointed him after the World Cup I knew we had no chance at the euros, despite having Bellingham and Kane!!!!

    Fack it. I'm off to the Thames for a riverside pint in the lovely sun
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Absolutely nowt is going on in Blyth and Ashington, election wise.
    But all pollsters are picking up big swings to Labour in the Northeast.
    Important to note. Blyth Valley, which went Tory last time does not exist. B+A consists of the Labour half of BV, and the Labour half of Wansbeck (which doesn't exist either).
    It's not just the Tory activists being pulled back to the safest of seats. I know that Lab have called for canvassing in Rutland and Stamford which on some measures is the 10th safest story seat in the country.

    @Sandpit might well have 10 000 reasons to be nervous, but to me it seems a bit out of reach for Labour. I think they are deliberately stretching the invisible Tory machine.
    Labour? Rutland & Stamford?!

    In 10+ years of living in Rutland I only remember seeing a Labour poster in a window once. And that was the vicar.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    I can never bet against England, even if doing so would make sense. It just seems unpatriotic.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit

    I have absolutely no idea why we stick with Southgate. Tactically inept. Boring.

    Just awful
    Because he's a "fundamentally decent guy" and he used to wear a waistcoat and taking the knee and all that shite

    I mean, he probably is a lovely chap. He also earns several trillion quid. As soon as they re-appointed him after the World Cup I knew we had no chance at the euros, despite having Bellingham and Kane!!!!

    Fack it. I'm off to the Thames for a riverside pint in the lovely sun
    Part time ‘supporter’
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    Yougov provide useful information on their voting intention tracker page on the underlying polls. https://yougov.co.uk/_pubapis/v5/uk/trackers/voting-intention/download/

    If you select the Conservative tab you can see movement for 2019 conservative voters for each poll. Similarly for the labour tab and the Lib dem tab.

    Over the past 14 days the Conservative 2019 voters are
    C 49 (+3)
    L 8 (-4)
    LD 6(+1)
    R 32 (-2)

    So a slight move back to Conservatives from Labour.

    Labour 2019 voters
    C 3(+2)
    L 70(-9)
    LD 11(+6)
    R 10(+1)

    So a clear shift from Labour to Lib Dems (tactical voting?)

    Lib Dem 2019 voters
    C 11(+4)
    L 23(-5)
    LD 56(+1)
    R 6(-1)

    So a shift to Conservatives and a shift from Labour.

    Subsampling. Again.

    Unweighted. Ergo, nonsense.
    Will the GE result be nonsense because Lab only got 11m votes?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    What is it about football where absolutely everything is down to the manager and he's either a fucking genius or a completely useless wanker?
  • Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Do we have any data on how "lumpy" the Reform vote is?

    10-20% of the vote could get them anywhere from 0-70 seats depending on this factor.

    Be a massive shame if it was all in the red wall/Midlands and Labour massively underachieve
    That is an interesting possibility. If Labour get 33-35%, Libdems win a batch of Tory southern seats, Reform win a batch of Redwall seats and a few brexity Labour ones in places like Sunderland, plus SNP do a bit better than expected, you could end up with a hung parliament.
    I think that's extremely unlikely.

    The biggest impact of splitting the right wing vote between the Conservatives and Reform is more Labour seats.
    Agree unlikely, but if Labour keep dropping to the mid 30s, might be worth a punt.

    Would be useful to know what is going on in places like Blyth and Sunderland. Not much more to go on at the moment than a tweet from Galloway, which is not much to go on.
    Absolutely nowt is going on in Blyth and Ashington, election wise.
    But all pollsters are picking up big swings to Labour in the Northeast.
    Important to note. Blyth Valley, which went Tory last time does not exist. B+A consists of the Labour half of BV, and the Labour half of Wansbeck (which doesn't exist either).
    It's not just the Tory activists being pulled back to the safest of seats. I know that Lab have called for canvassing in Rutland and Stamford which on some measures is the 10th safest Tory seat in the country.

    @Sandpit might well have 10 000 reasons to be nervous, but to me it seems a bit out of reach for Labour. I think they are deliberately stretching the invisible Tory machine.
    Smart move by Starmer. Less winnable seats have local parties not infested by momentotrots so choose good candidates quite often as Mid Beds did with Alistair Strathern.

    The more of these Starmer can get elected the more he can ignore the residual far left loons who get elected in safe seats.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Wow, an almost identikit BMG poll to the R&W one.

    Looking good for Labour right now

    Lab 42%
    Con 19%
    Ref 19%
    LibDem 9%
    Green 7%
    SNP 3%

    Sample 1627, fieldwork 18-19 June

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Andy_JS said:

    I can never bet against England, even if doing so would make sense. It just seems unpatriotic.

    I've been doing it for every tournament since 2002 bar 2008.

    I call it capitalism betting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Finally the BBC panel turns on Southgate. After about a decade

    It's his teams, his coaching, his sit-back-on-the lead shit

    I have absolutely no idea why we stick with Southgate. Tactically inept. Boring.

    Just awful
    Because he's a "fundamentally decent guy" and he used to wear a waistcoat and taking the knee and all that shite

    I mean, he probably is a lovely chap. He also earns several trillion quid. As soon as they re-appointed him after the World Cup I knew we had no chance at the euros, despite having Bellingham and Kane!!!!

    Fack it. I'm off to the Thames for a riverside pint in the lovely sun
    The Knee is the biggest black mark against Southgate.

    Disgrace he got sucked into that cultural Marxism.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,283
    Andy_JS said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I looked at the MRP averages vs the same pollsters normal polls (a sample of 5)

    So, here are the national MRP averages and how they compare with the ordinary polls
    MRP averages:
    Con 24.4 (+3.0 compared with normal polls)
    Lab 42.0 (+1.6)
    LD 11.2 (0)
    SNP 3.2 (+0.2)
    Grn 5.6 (-0.6)
    Ref 12.0 (-2.0)
    Others Inc PC 1.6 (-2.2)

    There's a small discrepancy because Survation quote UK not GB on their normal polls, but even allowing for that it looks like there is about a 4-5% transfer of votes from challenger parties to incumbent parties overall inherent in the MRP process.

    How do you get Reform on just 14% with normal polls?
    Just an average of 5 polls including an aged 9% from IPSOS (but their MRP itself isn't the newest). I'm betting their next poll won't be 9%.

    I have the overall 18 pollster (18!) average for Reform as 16%.
    Are you including polls that are more than about 10 days old? Because I think that's a bit dodgy during an election campaign.
    MRPs are rarer, and I've excluded Find Out Now who haven't run a traditional poll for comparison. In fact without IPSOS, whose MRP rated Reform 3 points higher than their traditional poll, the MRP effect in giving a lower Reform value would be even greater.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Yougov provide useful information on their voting intention tracker page on the underlying polls. https://yougov.co.uk/_pubapis/v5/uk/trackers/voting-intention/download/

    If you select the Conservative tab you can see movement for 2019 conservative voters for each poll. Similarly for the labour tab and the Lib dem tab.

    Over the past 14 days the Conservative 2019 voters are
    C 49 (+3)
    L 8 (-4)
    LD 6(+1)
    R 32 (-2)

    So a slight move back to Conservatives from Labour.

    Labour 2019 voters
    C 3(+2)
    L 70(-9)
    LD 11(+6)
    R 10(+1)

    So a clear shift from Labour to Lib Dems (tactical voting?)

    Lib Dem 2019 voters
    C 11(+4)
    L 23(-5)
    LD 56(+1)
    R 6(-1)

    So a shift to Conservatives and a shift from Labour.

    Subsampling. Again.

    Unweighted. Ergo, nonsense.
    Will the GE result be nonsense because Lab only got 11m votes?
    No.
This discussion has been closed.