Dougie quitting as Scots Tory leader and quitting Holyrood if he wins against Rochdale Pioneer apparently. Murdos separate party plan incoming..........
Could give voters enough incentive to vote for him. Vote for me and you’ll actually be more rid of me than if you don’t.
A reminder that Chris Patten, as Tory Chairman, was MP in the Lib Dems' top target seat. He didn't do the chicken run - he set the right example in defeat, while masterminding Major's 1992 win.
From that to Dick Holden in 32 years.
Amusing that Patten's performance in Bath was worse than the Tories did nationally.
Patten is one of the architects of Brexit. Whenever it looked like the Tories might offer a referendum - on Maastricht etc - he was there to scupper the idea, thus stoking the fires of euroscepticism so much we actually voted to Leave completely, in the end. He is a fool. A clever, eloquent fool
Why do so many Brexit folk continue to blame pro-Europeans for their own folly? It's like they all know that the course the UK has taken since 2016 is a Suez style screw up, but those who opposed it are responsible. Brexit has crippled the Tories, maybe even killed them, but it is the populists that have to own it.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
No, he's jumping before being pushed. And giving the right more rope before the presidential election.
It's a risky strategy - but so are all the other ones. Clinging on in the face of public opinion would likely be more damaging.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
The march of the right was somewhat patchy across Europe. But Macron's move does look courageous.
To me Macron's move has the feel of Major's resignation in 1995 to face down his internal critics in the Tory Party.
"Back me or sack me!".
I don't think either of these are quite right. Macron has two years left of a presidency limited to two terms. He isn't the government. Macron will go on for another two years then that's it. Nothing changes in that respect.
What's happening here is he's abandoning the minority government that is mainly made up of his own party and letting the chips fall where they may. Question is why he is doing that. He doesn't need to.
Perhaps he believes that if the FN have power now it will be enough to dent their popularity in the run up to the Presidential election and beyond.
If, heaven forbid, Reform became the government on July 5th. I would bet money on it falling apart within weeks and probably never recover. Farage has been clever enough to make sure he has never been in a position to be held accountable for the delivery of his "promises"
I can't remember who said it at the time but somebody opined that the only think that would puncture the popularity of Brexit was to experience Brexit. They were not wrong.
Something went very wrong with candidate selection. Louise Mensch resigning after two years, was the shape of things to come. Then, the parade of scandals ( sexual or financial), the spate of defections to other parties, the general air of weirdness about them, all point to failure to vet people.
Does everyone forget that Johnson threw most of the talent out. Stewart, Gauke, Hammond would all be assets to the current Tories.
When Johnson did that he chose ideological purity and personal loyalty over pragmatism and the Tories ceased to be a broad church conservative party.
If they do go careering off into a hard right tailspin after the election, then we just have to keep our fingers crossed that brand recognition plus the electoral system doesn't let them back into power, if they simply sit and grumble for long enough until the public gets bored of Labour. Being stuck in this Buggins Turn cycle between the two existing large parties is enormously damaging. They can get away with all kinds of nonsense.
I agree, and it is one reason I am now converted to PR. So while I might be OK with Farage (I am deeply wary of the man but I think he is right on several major points) I would be horrified by the idea of Corbyn as PM, and he nearly did it, precisely because of the Buggins Turn Duopoly
Enough. We need PR, and if that means fringe parties of left and right do better, so be it, they will still have to form coalitions
FPT, I thought a week ago that there was a small chance Suella Braverman might outright defect to Reform so that she could be Farage’s ‘no.2’ if a realignment takes place…it seems like her Times endorsement of Farage is the closest thing you can do whilst still holding the Tory whip.
Post election, a sign of things to come. She could be a prominent figure in a new Farage-led Tory party.
But if Crossover happens soon, things might get even weirder very quickly.
That's presumably plan B for any who did not defect *before* the election.
It solves the problem of Reform candidates losing elections.
I wonder who'll be the party leader if Mr Farage and Mr Anderson get hoofed in the GE.
(Incidentally, I'm wondering about just how much Reform - and some Tories - are pandering to the hard right vote.
The pub at which Mr Anderson launched his campaign in Ashfield has a pretty dicey reputation, non-political locals who are better informed tell me. "Not a pub to go to casually."
Incidentally incidentally - what are the politics of the Hells Angels? There's a branch in Huthwaite here. Genuine question - I don't know.)
A confused sort of right-libertarian. A man should have the freedom to shoot another man for wearing the wrong sort of badge on their clothes (the Cub Scouts are running scared).
I don't know - are they like a bearded version of the bald-headed aspiring racist thugs? Are they a criminal network in the UK? Misogynist? In some places the women are a powerless adornment.
Do we have any Hells Angels on PB?
Here when they put on a funeral ride it gets hundreds of Harleys.
And there's plenty of "women as willingly-arse-waving bits of stuff" in the imagery - almost like a deliberately dark version of the nose art from WW2 Bomber Aircraft.
That can be mainly tongue in cheek. Or it can have a system of implicit values similar to those being normalised by painting of women as enjoying-being-casually-brutalised in online pornography aimed at the younger generations.
I actually know a couple of alleged British Hells Angels, and I'll be charitable and say they're sort of Sons Of Anarchy cosplayers. That's just the 2 wannabes that I know, though, and I guess there will be genuine hard core fellas out there as well.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
You could always submit one.
I write for folding money, I comment for free. You're welcome
Dougie quitting as Scots Tory leader and quitting Holyrood if he wins against Rochdale Pioneer apparently. Murdos separate party plan incoming..........
If Ross loses won't he have to quit anyway after the cock shrivelling uselessness of his cunning plan to dump a sick colleague and piss off SCon insiders so much that they leaked details of his dodgy expenses?
YouGov have looked at how the various policies are going down. Quadruple lock, energy company and water pollution measures are popular; National Service and lowering the voting age the opposite.
One of those oddities of public opinion vs lobby opinion: the pensions triple lock has always been popular. Now the quadruple too. Is this some residual gerontocratic respect for elders thing going on?
Yes, reasonably popular for young people too. I think most people think of the state pension as something only really poor pensioners get and depend on, and therefore the quadruple lock is sensible and compassionate.
They miss the enormous expense of what is effectively a universal benefit.
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
He's marmite but the likely Tory candidates are mostly equally dislikeable or worse: JRM, Braverman, Truss, Jenrick, all pretty low in the favourability scores even among Tories. The only one who has Farage's level of charisma and right wing fandom is Boris.
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
Has Farage ever willingly been Number Two? (As opposed to a Number Two?)
And whilst one can never underestimate the willingness of One Nationers ('not called wets for nothing') to put up with all sorts of nonsense, a Conservative embrace of Farage would have to be a last straw... wouldn't it?
The challenge for centre right parties here and in the EU, I think, is how to engage with the populist right. They need the votes that otherwise go to populist parties without actually becoming one themselves, which would destroy them. Proto fascists go for the real thing rather than moderated versions, while the good guys, who are fortunately still the big majority, want nothing to do with any of it.
Do they? On current results the centre right are still ahead of the centre left in the EU parliament elections even despite the rise in the far right and nationalist right.
Remember many far right voters will be working class whites who in the past might have voted Labour, Socialist or Social Democrat but would never vote centre right
Similar to the white working class former Democrats in the US rustbelt who voted for Trump
Yes. The EU elections are a good news / bad news story. Bad news that the far right have moved forward sightly overall and very significantly in certain countries, in particular France. Good news that the good guys are still way ahead of the bad guys.
But I do think the so-called centre right have a choice whether to remain as such, possibly with a lunatic fringe firmly kept as a fringe to boost votes. Or to adopt the language of the far right. I suggest the first option is better for them, both on principle and to their electoral advantage. But others including the current UK Conservative Party disagree.
Something went very wrong with candidate selection. Louise Mensch resigning after two years, was the shape of things to come. Then, the parade of scandals ( sexual or financial), the spate of defections to other parties, the general air of weirdness about them, all point to failure to vet people.
Does everyone forget that Johnson threw most of the talent out. Stewart, Gauke, Hammond would all be assets to the current Tories.
When Johnson did that he chose ideological purity and personal loyalty over pragmatism and the Tories ceased to be a broad church conservative party.
If they do go careering off into a hard right tailspin after the election, then we just have to keep our fingers crossed that brand recognition plus the electoral system doesn't let them back into power, if they simply sit and grumble for long enough until the public gets bored of Labour. Being stuck in this Buggins Turn cycle between the two existing large parties is enormously damaging. They can get away with all kinds of nonsense.
I agree, and it is one reason I am now converted to PR. So while I might be OK with Farage (I am deeply wary of the man but I think he is right on several major points) I would be horrified by the idea of Corbyn as PM, and he nearly did it, precisely because of the Buggins Turn Duopoly
Enough. We need PR, and if that means fringe parties of left and right do better, so be it, they will still have to form coalitions
I've noted a renewed interest in PR now that the full horror of FPTP has been brought to bear on the Conservatives.
The Conservatives’ national service policy announcement dominated the first weekend of the campaign. Our first look at the public response showed that people were divided, but our latest poll suggests that sentiment has now swung away from the idea, with around half (52%) against the Tories’ proposal that 18 year olds either serve a year in the armed forces, or commit to one weekend of volunteering per month for a year, compared to 39% who support.
Lib Dem’s launching manifesto today. Periodic plug that I still think they are big time underpriced for ‘Over 40.5 seats’ in particular, but also the ‘Most Seats without Labour’ at around 5.5.
Davey’s campaign has done very well on socials so far, but more than that - I think their big focus on the NHS and Social Care will play very well in many Tory heartlands. The Lib Dems do best when they are seen as the ‘sensible option’ and that’s going to be played out in many seats that are currently CON 1st LD 2nd imo.
In the countries that actually have experience with populists in charge the right was defeated
How about the old expresserati favourite Orban: "Hungary’s ruling Fidesz party is on track to receive its worst ever result in a European Parliament election, after early results showed a new challenger took nearly 30 percent of the vote Sunday."
The populist right keeps falling flat on its nose because it promises the sky..... this, to me, encapsulates the problem with populism... it refuses to be realistic and pragmatic.... man, it would be way more dangerous if it was - but it isn't. And if it was it would cease to be populist. That is what is going on in the UK too. The ukippification of the tory party (which failed and has now become a retreat to reform) has revealed abysmal governance and a focus on symbolic policies to signal ideology rather than improving people's lives.....
Just like britain probably needed its brexit experience to get past its exceptionalism.... I suspect france is probably headed that way too.... but the populists usually burn up on their encounter with governance.... so hopefully it wont last.
Except that Meloni got her best ever vote, and Italy is far more important than Holland or Hungary, so your point collapses on first analysis
As ever it is a patchwork, with varying results, but the last decade has unequivocally showed a shift to the hard or even far right in European elections, which is hardly surprising given the cultural and demographic changes. It is therefore likely to continue
Lefties who are alarmed about this might consider what things they need to do to stop it, such as drastically limiting immigration and being far more more forceful on integration and assimilation. Look at Denmark, which shows the way
However I predict the Left will not do this, because it makes them feel bad, so the rightwards shift will continue
Opinium must mark all responses as 'Reform 10/10' or they'll make baby Jesus cry
I’m sure that Opinium believes that their approach to polling gives an accurate reflection of the state of public opinion. They could be correct or not, but you cannot infer the latter simply because you don’t like the result.
In fairness, it is bizarre to have the party currently polling in 3rd (even on Opinium's own poll) grouped with "Other". I suspect rather than conspiracy though, it is more a case of doing what they've always done and not wanting to change their methodology close to an election.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
No, he's jumping before being pushed. And giving the right more rope before the presidential election.
It's a risky strategy - but so are all the other ones. Clinging on in the face of public opinion would likely be more damaging.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
The march of the right was somewhat patchy across Europe. But Macron's move does look courageous.
To me Macron's move has the feel of Major's resignation in 1995 to face down his internal critics in the Tory Party.
"Back me or sack me!".
I don't think either of these are quite right. Macron has two years left of a presidency limited to two terms. He isn't the government. Macron will go on for another two years then that's it. Nothing changes in that respect.
What's happening here is he's abandoning the minority government that is mainly made up of his own party and letting the chips fall where they may. Question is why he is doing that. He doesn't need to.
Two theories. One we've heard widely by now is that he wants the 28-year old Bardella to have to govern for a few years. The other is that he thinks the leadership of the socialist party will definitively break away from J-L Mélenchon and rejoin the pro-EU, secular, law and order mainstream. At least it would put together an alliance for the next presidential election.
I suspect Macron wants a functioning coalition not including Le Pen party and thinks there is a decent chance of getting one with this election. He's prepared to abandon his own party to achieve this.
He may be thinking the default is Le Pen anyway so he might as well roll the dice.
Something went very wrong with candidate selection. Louise Mensch resigning after two years, was the shape of things to come. Then, the parade of scandals ( sexual or financial), the spate of defections to other parties, the general air of weirdness about them, all point to failure to vet people.
Does everyone forget that Johnson threw most of the talent out. Stewart, Gauke, Hammond would all be assets to the current Tories.
When Johnson did that he chose ideological purity and personal loyalty over pragmatism and the Tories ceased to be a broad church conservative party.
If they do go careering off into a hard right tailspin after the election, then we just have to keep our fingers crossed that brand recognition plus the electoral system doesn't let them back into power, if they simply sit and grumble for long enough until the public gets bored of Labour. Being stuck in this Buggins Turn cycle between the two existing large parties is enormously damaging. They can get away with all kinds of nonsense.
I agree, and it is one reason I am now converted to PR. So while I might be OK with Farage (I am deeply wary of the man but I think he is right on several major points) I would be horrified by the idea of Corbyn as PM, and he nearly did it, precisely because of the Buggins Turn Duopoly
Enough. We need PR, and if that means fringe parties of left and right do better, so be it, they will still have to form coalitions
I've noted a renewed interest in PR now that the full horror of FPTP has been brought to bear on the Conservatives.
People keep saying this, but I've beem converted to PR since about 2019-2020, when it was far from obvious it would help the right
Britain is broken in several ways, and our now dysfunctional FPTP system is one of them
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
Has Farage ever willingly been Number Two? (As opposed to a Number Two?)
And whilst one can never underestimate the willingness of One Nationers ('not called wets for nothing') to put up with all sorts of nonsense, a Conservative embrace of Farage would have to be a last straw... wouldn't it?
Farage has always been a "number two" as far as I am concerned.
I think something undervalued in general is that tactical voting should be the strongest it’s ever been this election.
Of course it’s always been a thing, but in 2010, you didn’t have the same amount of everyday people who thought about it IMO.
Today you have big accounts with big reach like Carol Vorderman etc, posting about it constantly, and that’ll be getting shared on WhatsApp etc.
Lots of websites where you just enter your postcode and it tells you who to vote for. They’re not always right, but I wonder whether the value is in backing the ‘tactical vote of choice’ in marginal constituencies?
There’s so much less to split Labour and Lib Dem voters, and Tory and Lib Dem voters compared with 2019 (Brexit, change of leaders) etc that I can see them just pulling people a lot more efficiently.
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
He's marmite but the likely Tory candidates are mostly equally dislikeable or worse: JRM, Braverman, Truss, Jenrick, all pretty low in the favourability scores even among Tories. The only one who has Farage's level of charisma and right wing fandom is Boris.
Well if they are down to 9 MPs the choice may be forced on them. Or the Tories get zero MPs and it doesn't matter (sorry @Sandpit)
A fun fact is that Douglas Ross' resignation caps the first major football refereeing-related scandal since Virginia Bottomly famously missed an important vote on the Maastricht Treaty in order to act as linesman in a Rumbelows Cup quarter final tie between Oldham Athletic and Luton Town back in 1993.
A fun fact is that Douglas Ross' resignation caps the first major football refereeing-related scandal since Virginia Bottomly famously missed an important vote on the Maastricht Treaty in order to act as linesman in a Rumbelows Cup quarter final tie between Oldham Athletic and Luton Town back in 1993.
I remember Spitting Image always had her as someone John Major was secretly in love with.
"Oh Ginny ! ". Little did they know about Edwina-kins.
If the Tories become a Farage party they will cease to exist.
You need to go back to the centre and appeal to people under the age of 50. That means conceding ground on things like publicly owned railways, giving up the culture wars, doing something about tuition fees etc.
I doubt it, but it’s wrongheaded anyway. I know lots of folk confuse justice and vengeance but the law should really be about the former not the latter. If we decide that the courts are going to trade in state sanctioned retribution then we will have sacrificed any significant claim to being a civilised society.
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
It's the erstwhility of erstwhile Conservatives that's their current electoral predicament.
Strange but likeable word, "erstwhile". Feels like some incredible survival from Beowulf. Like happening on an Anglo-Saxon chapel in Newent
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
It's the erstwhility of erstwhile Conservatives that's their current electoral predicament.
Strange but likeable word, "erstwhile". Feels like some incredible survival from Beowulf. Like happening on an Anglo-Saxon chapel in Newent
Albeit not many have the wherewithal to use it often.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
I doubt it, but it’s wrongheaded anyway. I know lots of folk confuse justice and vengeance but the law should really be about the former not the latter. If we decide that the courts are going to trade in state sanctioned retribution then we will have sacrificed any significant claim to being a civilised society.
Well your lot did sell Brexit as a carefree ride back to the 1950s. We've already had the return of hitherto eradicated Victorian diseases so why not?
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
It would be completely bonkers so soon after the Post Office scandal and Andrew Malkinson.
It will follow the same trajectory as National Service. Once the voters have a think about it...
If they actually do it (and I think they’d be nuts to) then we will get 4 or 5 days of breathless debate on it drowning out all else. And yes I agree the eventual consensus will be that it’s not a good idea.
It might shore up 20% of the Tory vote, beyond that, I’m not convinced.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
The march of the right was somewhat patchy across Europe. But Macron's move does look courageous.
@Leon is perpetually over-excited, especially if it concerns his latest fad which at the moment is the Rise of the Right.
As you say, a patchy performance that is not going to interest many people in the UK.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
A complete volte-face from your opinions of, err, last week
This is utterly bizarre. An isolated post with zero context.
...the law should show you no mercy. What never? Under no circumstances? So no parole then, no suspended sentences, no FPNs for that matter. No early release on health grounds. No flexibility for pregnant prisoners. Or those with severe health problems.
Does 2,000 years of Christian heritage count for nothing?
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
It's the erstwhility of erstwhile Conservatives that's their current electoral predicament.
Strange but likeable word, "erstwhile". Feels like some incredible survival from Beowulf. Like happening on an Anglo-Saxon chapel in Newent
It's an odd example of a word firmly rooted in Old English sounding elevated. Much of our vulgar/refined distinctions map to Germanic/Latin origins. Lord/liege, body/corpus, snake/serpent, woods/forest. Erstwhile/previous bucks that trend.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
The march of the right was somewhat patchy across Europe. But Macron's move does look courageous.
@Leon is perpetually over-excited, especially if it concerns his latest fad which at the moment is the Rise of the Right.
As you say, a patchy performance that is not going to interest many people in the UK.
It's a fad that has been ongoing since he joined the board in 2005.
I doubt it, but it’s wrongheaded anyway. I know lots of folk confuse justice and vengeance but the law should really be about the former not the latter. If we decide that the courts are going to trade in state sanctioned retribution then we will have sacrificed any significant claim to being a civilised society.
And tbh mercy is a subject for philosophers and clerics, not lawyers.
I think Holden may lose. Part of his constituency includes Basildon which went Labour in 1997 and part is Billericay, which is the posher end of Basildon district but where Theresa Gormon only narrowly held on in 1997. Reform are also standing.
Seems unlikely on current polls the new intake of Tory MPs will be that big anyway, certainly much smaller than 2019 where vast numbers of new redwall MPs were elected. Most state school and non Oxbridge but who now unfortunately look likely to lose their seats.
Of the still relatively safe Tory seats, candidates picked are largely SPADs or ex MPs with a few councillors or business figures close to Rishi added in too. Most of them Sunak loyalists chosen from CCHQ shortlists. So the quality probably won't be any worse than before but the new parliamentary party is likely ironically to be more centrist than the old parliamentary party. Yes some high profile centrists like Hunt, Chalk and Mordaunt likely lose their seats but so too most likely do some high profile rightwingers like IDS, Clarke and Rees Mogg
The only point I disagree on there is I think the Admiral will hold on in Portsmouth. I suspect the Tory vote there will be much more likely to turn out and see her home to take up the reins in the new Parliament. I think she holds by low thousands (2 to 3)
You say this often but it’s not really supported by the polls, nor the general tide.
You say she’s popular but she has a reputation for laziness, well founded if you listen to civil servants and party workers.
I’m odds-on Penny Mordaunt will lose her seat.
[cue some weird comment that it’s not okay for a woman to criticise another ]
I think Holden may lose. Part of his constituency includes Basildon which went Labour in 1997 and part is Billericay, which is the posher end of Basildon district but where Theresa Gormon only narrowly held on in 1997. Reform are also standing.
Seems unlikely on current polls the new intake of Tory MPs will be that big anyway, certainly much smaller than 2019 where vast numbers of new redwall MPs were elected. Most state school and non Oxbridge but who now unfortunately look likely to lose their seats.
Of the still relatively safe Tory seats, candidates picked are largely SPADs or ex MPs with a few councillors or business figures close to Rishi added in too. Most of them Sunak loyalists chosen from CCHQ shortlists. So the quality probably won't be any worse than before but the new parliamentary party is likely ironically to be more centrist than the old parliamentary party. Yes some high profile centrists like Hunt, Chalk and Mordaunt likely lose their seats but so too most likely do some high profile rightwingers like IDS, Clarke and Rees Mogg
The only point I disagree on there is I think the Admiral will hold on in Portsmouth. I suspect the Tory vote there will be much more likely to turn out and see her home to take up the reins in the new Parliament. I think she holds by low thousands (2 to 3)
You say this often but it’s not really supported by the polls, nor the general tide.
You say she’s popular but she has a reputation for laziness, well founded if you listen to civil servants and party workers.
I’m odds-on Penny Mordaunt will lose her seat.
[cue some weird comment that it’s not okay for a woman to criticise another ]
Could you reference where I have said this before please?
This is utterly bizarre. An isolated post with zero context.
...the law should show you no mercy. What never? Under no circumstances? So no parole then, no suspended sentences, no FPNs for that matter. No early release on health grounds. No flexibility for pregnant prisoners. Or those with severe health problems.
Does 2,000 years of Christian heritage count for nothing?
I am beginning to worry Sunak is losing it.
GE campaigns test the mettle of leaders. Major famously excelled at it in 1992 and he was very magnanimous in 1997. Brown had some awful moments in 2010 but largely managed to keep it together. Miliband wobbled in 2015. May was tested and came up very short in 2017.
All of these figures were better politicians than Sunak. I can quite believe he is really floundering right now.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
Rishi Cosplaying being leader of Norsefire
I mean, if he doubles down on this and it's not just some random tweet then he is marching his troops right into the firing line.
What better invitation for journalists to reel off the greatest hits of lawbreaking by Tory MPs and donors. It's carte blanche to mention Michelle Mone, Boris and Rishi's FPNs (yes I know those are civil offences but nobody will mind that), Nadim Zahawi, various sex pests, well know cocaine partakers...
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Or, merge with them. That could work, too
It really won't. Farage is loathed by too many erstwhile Conservatives.
But they are erstwhile, who cares?
I agree on the narrow point of Farage, he is probably disliked by too many, he is very Marmite. I cannot see a successful Tory-Reform party led by him, it would have to be a Tory and he'd be second in command
It's the erstwhility of erstwhile Conservatives that's their current electoral predicament.
Strange but likeable word, "erstwhile". Feels like some incredible survival from Beowulf. Like happening on an Anglo-Saxon chapel in Newent
It's an odd example of a word firmly rooted in Old English sounding elevated. Much of our vulgar/refined distinctions map to Germanic/Latin origins. Lord/liege, body/corpus, snake/serpent, woods/forest. Erstwhile/previous bucks that trend.
There are loads of great Anglo-Saxon words we could revive
Banloca = bone-locker = body. Nice
"Fucked my banloca, taking the day off"
And on that note, the sun has come out in Kyiv and that makes it the ideal time to go to Babi Yar
Capital Punishment would surely see some Tory defections? There’s got to be some backbenchers etc who would say “I can’t support this”
It actually would give a lot of Tories a perfect get out clause - they could stand aside without looking like they were running scared
It would also perplex those tempted by Reform. "Why are they banging on about capital punishment when the thing we want is for them to fix migration and stop net zero?"
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
Give it a rest.
And no, Farage opposes the death penalty.
I didn't explain why it might be a game changer so why don't you just ignore my posts. I ignore yours although your more enlightened ones go some thing like "..." and I quite like them.
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
Rishi Cosplaying being leader of Norsefire
I mean, if he doubles down on this and it's not just some random tweet then he is marching his troops right into the firing line.
What better invitation for journalists to reel off the greatest hits of lawbreaking by Tory MPs and donors. It's carte blanche to mention Michelle Mone, Boris and Rishi's FPNs (yes I know those are civil offences but nobody will mind that), Nadim Zahawi, various sex pests, well know cocaine partakers...
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Unquestionably and incontrovertibly true.
But it’s delicious that the headbangers, with representatives on here, are oblivious to this. (e.g. @Leon@Luckyguy1983 )
Why such glee? Because the longer they stay out on the Right, the longer they stay out of power. @TSE gets this. Pity others of you don’t.
You win power in the UK by winning the centre. We are NOT an extremist country. We don’t like rabble rousers. We don’t like right-wing or left-wing extreme ideologies.
What tends to happen is that when a Party loses power it then lurches to the Left or the Right … and goes on losing and losing and losing until the boneheads are booted out and common sense prevails.
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
I had that one too and it is very odd.
Like the attack ads that weirdly show Keir looking buff and powerful, or Rayner looking cool.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
This isn't funny anymore, Pete. Even I gave up the Truss thing after a while. You keeping promising that a Tory wonder weapon will be along any moment as if you were sitting in a Berlin bunker in early 1945.
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
I had that one too and it is very odd.
Like the attack ads that weirdly show Keir looking buff and powerful, or Rayner looking cool.
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
I had that one too and it is very odd.
The joke tweets that Rishi and co have all put £1m on Labour 500+ seats are starting to look more real by the day.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
Give it a rest.
And no, Farage opposes the death penalty.
I didn't explain why it might be a game changer so why don't you just ignore my posts. I ignore yours although your more enlightened ones go some thing like "..." and I quite like them.
So explain then. Why is this cryptic tweet a game changer?
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Unquestionably and incontrovertibly true.
But it’s delicious that the headbangers, with representatives on here, are oblivious to this.
Why such glee? Because the longer they stay out on the Right, the longer they stay out of power. @TSE gets this. Pity others of you don’t.
You win power in the UK by winning the centre. We are NOT an extremist country. We don’t like rabble rousers. We don’t like right-wing or left-wing extreme ideologies.
What tends to happen is that when a Party loses power it then lurches to the Left or the Right … and goes on losing and losing and losing until the boneheads are booted out and common sense prevails.
Sorry to veer off topic but surely we need a thread on the EU elex? They have convulsed many of our neighbours. Macron has even called “Le Snappylec” in reaction - a move which still smacks of desperation to me. There are so many ways it can go wrong and not many it can go right
He’s saying “back me or sack me” - kind of - but there’s a high chance an irritated French public will tell him to “jumperons en le lac”
The march of the right was somewhat patchy across Europe. But Macron's move does look courageous.
@Leon is perpetually over-excited, especially if it concerns his latest fad which at the moment is the Rise of the Right.
As you say, a patchy performance that is not going to interest many people in the UK.
It's a fad that has been ongoing since he joined the board in 2005.
Surely you mean a different person who peaked in 2016, then had a bit of a crisis about just how edgy some of those comments were (reducing the Muslim population, anybody?). Then reborn in many karmic forms, but surely person of such high standards would not end up named after a middlebrow fast-casual food chain.
I'm gobsmacked we're all discussing this boring rubbish and overlooked the absolute cliffhanger of an election in Iran between one moderate (as in, women shouldn't have to wear burkas), four Nazis and one person who makes Hitler look like James Callaghan.
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
Give it a rest.
And no, Farage opposes the death penalty.
I didn't explain why it might be a game changer so why don't you just ignore my posts. I ignore yours although your more enlightened ones go some thing like "..." and I quite like them.
You don’t ignore my posts, you respond to them, as above.
I’m interested, what’s your prediction for the election? Are you standing by your forecast of Sunak “doing a Major” 1992-style?
Conservatives need to take on and defeat the populist right, else they die. It’s quite simple.
Unquestionably and incontrovertibly true.
But it’s delicious that the headbangers, with representatives on here, are oblivious to this. (e.g. @Leon@Luckyguy1983 )
Why such glee? Because the longer they stay out on the Right, the longer they stay out of power. @TSE gets this. Pity others of you don’t.
You win power in the UK by winning the centre. We are NOT an extremist country. We don’t like rabble rousers. We don’t like right-wing or left-wing extreme ideologies.
What tends to happen is that when a Party loses power it then lurches to the Left or the Right … and goes on losing and losing and losing until the boneheads are booted out and common sense prevails.
Don’t yer know yer history?
Normally UK elections are won in the centre but that is not always true.
Churchill was more centrist than Attlee in 1945 and 1950 for instance. Heath was more centrist than Wilson in 1966 and 1974.
Callaghan was more centrist than Thatcher in 1979 as well
That really would be the game changer they are looking for (against Labour). Isn't Nigel already an enthusiastic hangers and flogger?
That tweet is politically awful. "If you are a criminal, the law should show you no mercy". It's just inviting difficult "what if x, should the law show you no mercy then?" questions.
Rishi Cosplaying being leader of Norsefire
I mean, if he doubles down on this and it's not just some random tweet then he is marching his troops right into the firing line.
What better invitation for journalists to reel off the greatest hits of lawbreaking by Tory MPs and donors. It's carte blanche to mention Michelle Mone, Boris and Rishi's FPNs (yes I know those are civil offences but nobody will mind that), Nadim Zahawi, various sex pests, well know cocaine partakers...
He doesn't mean them
He doesn't specify otherwise. Which is why it's a stupid Tweet from an absolutely appalling politician. It promises different things to different people and can deliver to none of them.
New Rishi Sunak language on D-Day debacle - 'I just hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me'
'I absolutely didn’t mean to cause anyone any more upset, and that’s why I apologise unreservedly for the mistake that I made
'And I just hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me and look at my actions that I’ve taken as prime minister to support our armed forces'
@wooliedyed thought it was you who said Penny wouldn’t lose? Actually, come to think of it, it may have only been CR? If so apologies. But as you’ve now said it, I think she’s going to lose x
I think Holden may lose. Part of his constituency includes Basildon which went Labour in 1997 and part is Billericay, which is the posher end of Basildon district but where Theresa Gormon only narrowly held on in 1997. Reform are also standing.
Seems unlikely on current polls the new intake of Tory MPs will be that big anyway, certainly much smaller than 2019 where vast numbers of new redwall MPs were elected. Most state school and non Oxbridge but who now unfortunately look likely to lose their seats.
Of the still relatively safe Tory seats, candidates picked are largely SPADs or ex MPs with a few councillors or business figures close to Rishi added in too. Most of them Sunak loyalists chosen from CCHQ shortlists. So the quality probably won't be any worse than before but the new parliamentary party is likely ironically to be more centrist than the old parliamentary party. Yes some high profile centrists like Hunt, Chalk and Mordaunt likely lose their seats but so too most likely do some high profile rightwingers like IDS, Clarke and Rees Mogg
The only point I disagree on there is I think the Admiral will hold on in Portsmouth. I suspect the Tory vote there will be much more likely to turn out and see her home to take up the reins in the new Parliament. I think she holds by low thousands (2 to 3)
You say this often but it’s not really supported by the polls, nor the general tide.
You say she’s popular but she has a reputation for laziness, well founded if you listen to civil servants and party workers.
I’m odds-on Penny Mordaunt will lose her seat.
[cue some weird comment that it’s not okay for a woman to criticise another ]
Her Portsmouth North seat was also Labour in 1997 too
In the countries that actually have experience with populists in charge the right was defeated
How about the old expresserati favourite Orban: "Hungary’s ruling Fidesz party is on track to receive its worst ever result in a European Parliament election, after early results showed a new challenger took nearly 30 percent of the vote Sunday."
The populist right keeps falling flat on its nose because it promises the sky..... this, to me, encapsulates the problem with populism... it refuses to be realistic and pragmatic.... man, it would be way more dangerous if it was - but it isn't. And if it was it would cease to be populist. That is what is going on in the UK too. The ukippification of the tory party (which failed and has now become a retreat to reform) has revealed abysmal governance and a focus on symbolic policies to signal ideology rather than improving people's lives.....
Just like britain probably needed its brexit experience to get past its exceptionalism.... I suspect france is probably headed that way too.... but the populists usually burn up on their encounter with governance.... so hopefully it wont last.
Except that Meloni got her best ever vote, and Italy is far more important than Holland or Hungary, so your point collapses on first analysis
As ever it is a patchwork, with varying results, but the last decade has unequivocally showed a shift to the hard or even far right in European elections, which is hardly surprising given the cultural and demographic changes. It is therefore likely to continue
Lefties who are alarmed about this might consider what things they need to do to stop it, such as drastically limiting immigration and being far more more forceful on integration and assimilation. Look at Denmark, which shows the way
However I predict the Left will not do this, because it makes them feel bad, so the rightwards shift will continue
Meloni is explained pretty well by the political history of the Italian right, where the three parties have broadly been Forza, Lega and the post-fascist vehicle (AN, FdI) for 3 decades.
Forza represented the centre right but with Berlusconi's mercurialism and Lega just being certifiable, it was left to AN to be the grown ups in the room.
Meloni for sure adds a big chunk red meat in, but does keep one eye on that grown up tradition, her main men have been Tajani (the man who did all the boring stuff for Forza for years) and Giorgetti (the man who wanted to reposition Lega to the left of FdI and Salvini's main internal rival), steady hands both. With Salvini reduced, deliciously for the leader of a party whose founding cry was against money being wasted in the South, to minister for works, the most prominent of which being the bridge to Sicily, as iconic in the Italian psyche as the Channel Tunnel was to us.
It is the right combination of selective red meat and perceived adulthood that a more nationalist right needs to achieve to be successful, and I don't see where that comes from currently either in the Tory party or in Reform.
Comments
https://www.cer.eu/insights/british-and-their-exceptionalism
If, heaven forbid, Reform became the government on July 5th. I would bet money on it falling apart within weeks and probably never recover. Farage has been clever enough to make sure he has never been in a position to be held accountable for the delivery of his "promises"
I can't remember who said it at the time but somebody opined that the only think that would puncture the popularity of Brexit was to experience Brexit. They were not wrong.
Enough. We need PR, and if that means fringe parties of left and right do better, so be it, they will still have to form coalitions
Edit: overtaken by events!
They miss the enormous expense of what is effectively a universal benefit.
And whilst one can never underestimate the willingness of One Nationers ('not called wets for nothing') to put up with all sorts of nonsense, a Conservative embrace of Farage would have to be a last straw... wouldn't it?
But I do think the so-called centre right have a choice whether to remain as such, possibly with a lunatic fringe firmly kept as a fringe to boost votes. Or to adopt the language of the far right. I suggest the first option is better for them, both on principle and to their electoral advantage. But others including the current UK Conservative Party disagree.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49655-general-election-2024-which-new-policies-do-people-support
Again, I kind of feel like this is just "we don't like the Tories".
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1800090853387677781
First on the chopping block... Just Stop Oil?
Davey’s campaign has done very well on socials so far, but more than that - I think their big focus on the NHS and Social Care will play very well in many Tory heartlands. The Lib Dems do best when they are seen as the ‘sensible option’ and that’s going to be played out in many seats that are currently CON 1st LD 2nd imo.
As ever it is a patchwork, with varying results, but the last decade has unequivocally showed a shift to the hard or even far right in European elections, which is hardly surprising given the cultural and demographic changes. It is therefore likely to continue
Lefties who are alarmed about this might consider what things they need to do to stop it, such as drastically limiting immigration and being far more more forceful on integration and assimilation. Look at Denmark, which shows the way
However I predict the Left will not do this, because it makes them feel bad, so the rightwards shift will continue
"No mercy". Didn't Sunak accept a FPN in lieu of prosecution? PB lawyers please assemble.
He may be thinking the default is Le Pen anyway so he might as well roll the dice.
Is it out already ?
Britain is broken in several ways, and our now dysfunctional FPTP system is one of them
Of course it’s always been a thing, but in 2010, you didn’t have the same amount of everyday people who thought about it IMO.
Today you have big accounts with big reach like Carol Vorderman etc, posting about it constantly, and that’ll be getting shared on WhatsApp etc.
Lots of websites where you just enter your postcode and it tells you who to vote for. They’re not always right, but I wonder whether the value is in backing the ‘tactical vote of choice’ in marginal constituencies?
There’s so much less to split Labour and Lib Dem voters, and Tory and Lib Dem voters compared with 2019 (Brexit, change of leaders) etc that I can see them just pulling people a lot more efficiently.
"Oh Ginny ! ". Little did they know about Edwina-kins.
You need to go back to the centre and appeal to people under the age of 50. That means conceding ground on things like publicly owned railways, giving up the culture wars, doing something about tuition fees etc.
I doubt it, but it’s wrongheaded anyway. I know lots of folk confuse justice and vengeance but the law should really be about the former not the latter. If we decide that the courts are going to trade in state sanctioned retribution then we will have sacrificed any significant claim to being a civilised society.
Tory manifesto - dual referendum on quitting EHCR and reinstating Death Penalty
It will follow the same trajectory as National Service. Once the voters have a think about it...
Well your lot did sell Brexit as a carefree ride back to the 1950s. We've already had the return of hitherto eradicated Victorian diseases so why not?
It might shore up 20% of the Tory vote, beyond that, I’m not convinced.
And no, Farage opposes the death penalty.
As you say, a patchy performance that is not going to interest many people in the UK.
A shorter day cycling today. About 50 km to Saumur
Totally unprecedented.
But now he has shown the way, Richi can jump on the bandwagon...
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1800090853387677781
This is utterly bizarre. An isolated post with zero context.
...the law should show you no mercy. What never? Under no circumstances? So no parole then, no suspended sentences, no FPNs for that matter. No early release on health grounds. No flexibility for pregnant prisoners. Or those with severe health problems.
Does 2,000 years of Christian heritage count for nothing?
I am beginning to worry Sunak is losing it.
"No mercy". Didn't Sunak accept a FPN in lieu of prosecution? PB lawyers please assemble.
The law should show you no mercy… when your case actually gets heard in three years time.
And tbh mercy is a subject for philosophers and clerics, not lawyers.
EDIT: vanilla comment quote stacking going bonkers
You say she’s popular but she has a reputation for laziness, well founded if you listen to civil servants and party workers.
I’m odds-on Penny Mordaunt will lose her seat.
[cue some weird comment that it’s not okay for a woman to criticise another
Not that I expect him to be shown a great deal of mercy on 4 July.
GE campaigns test the mettle of leaders. Major famously excelled at it in 1992 and he was very magnanimous in 1997. Brown had some awful moments in 2010 but largely managed to keep it together. Miliband wobbled in 2015. May was tested and came up very short in 2017.
All of these figures were better politicians than Sunak. I can quite believe he is really floundering right now.
It actually would give a lot of Tories a perfect get out clause - they could stand aside without looking like they were running scared
What better invitation for journalists to reel off the greatest hits of lawbreaking by Tory MPs and donors. It's carte blanche to mention Michelle Mone, Boris and Rishi's FPNs (yes I know those are civil offences but nobody will mind that), Nadim Zahawi, various sex pests, well know cocaine partakers...
An intervention in the US election?
Banloca = bone-locker = body. Nice
"Fucked my banloca, taking the day off"
And on that note, the sun has come out in Kyiv and that makes it the ideal time to go to Babi Yar
That'll challenge Farage and his loony tunes
It had a bit with "Keir Starmer needs YOU to help him win the election"
And then in much smaller text saying a vote for others eg LD/Reform helps him and not to risk it.
But design wise that's so odd, to so prominently sat Starmer needs our vote, with a picture of him, and putting don't risk it vote Conservative in much smaller text.
But it’s delicious that the headbangers, with representatives on here, are oblivious to this. (e.g. @Leon @Luckyguy1983 )
Why such glee? Because the longer they stay out on the Right, the longer they stay out of power. @TSE gets this. Pity others of you don’t.
You win power in the UK by winning the centre. We are NOT an extremist country. We don’t like rabble rousers. We don’t like right-wing or left-wing extreme ideologies.
What tends to happen is that when a Party loses power it then lurches to the Left or the Right … and goes on losing and losing and losing until the boneheads are booted out and common sense prevails.
Don’t yer know yer history?
"What do we want?!"
"GRADUAL CHANGE!"
"When do we want it!?"
"IN DUE COURSE!"
I’m interested, what’s your prediction for the election? Are you standing by your forecast of Sunak “doing a Major” 1992-style?
NEW: Sunak has begged voters to “find it in their hearts to forgive me” over his D-Day disaster...
PM trying to move on as he finally faces hacks after weekend of radio silence....
@ryansabey
I think a meme has been born this morning. If you’re a [blank], the [blank] should show you no mercy.
Pineapple on pizza eater; Italians
England fan; Icelanders
Etc
Churchill was more centrist than Attlee in 1945 and 1950 for instance. Heath was more centrist than Wilson in 1966 and 1974.
Callaghan was more centrist than Thatcher in 1979 as well
'I absolutely didn’t mean to cause anyone any more upset, and that’s why I apologise unreservedly for the mistake that I made
'And I just hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me and look at my actions that I’ve taken as prime minister to support our armed forces'
https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800099846981890385?s=46
The PM reduced to pitiful pleading of the “please don’t hurt me” variety. Abject. Embarrassing.
Forza represented the centre right but with Berlusconi's mercurialism and Lega just being certifiable, it was left to AN to be the grown ups in the room.
Meloni for sure adds a big chunk red meat in, but does keep one eye on that grown up tradition, her main men have been Tajani (the man who did all the boring stuff for Forza for years) and Giorgetti (the man who wanted to reposition Lega to the left of FdI and Salvini's main internal rival), steady hands both. With Salvini reduced, deliciously for the leader of a party whose founding cry was against money being wasted in the South, to minister for works, the most prominent of which being the bridge to Sicily, as iconic in the Italian psyche as the Channel Tunnel was to us.
It is the right combination of selective red meat and perceived adulthood that a more nationalist right needs to achieve to be successful, and I don't see where that comes from currently either in the Tory party or in Reform.