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A Portillo moment for a new generation? – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,950
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    He was a BBC producer and program maker (Horizon, for example) before he became a presenter.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9776r3nqv1o

    The BBC, not unreasonably, cover their own in more detail, but despite the incomprehension of not a few PBers, he was pretty well known, well beyond the circle of Daily Mail readers (and actually the Mail's science coverage can be surprisingly good).
    He actually began in banking or investment management, I can't remember which, then switched to train as a doctor, then went into general broadcasting, and eventually became prominent as a medical broadcaster. Quite a few career swerves, there.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,312
    edited June 10
    Watched Mosley docs, not so much as he went further into weight loss, but things like 'Pain, Pus and Poison' on the history of pharmaceuticals.

    Wasn't so aware of his earlier career in TV production.

    Some of the reaction on here is all a bit Bagpuss: 'I've not heard of him therefore all the mice on the mechanical mouse organ can't have heard of him'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543
    edited June 10

    The leader of SF in Ireland actually used the phrase “Lessons will be learned”, about their election performance.

    Sums up what happened, I think.

    They'll probably conclude they need to go around murdering people and robbing banks again.
    You jest.

    But democratic accountability in the sense of leadership answering to the people wasn’t a part of Republican ideology until they claimed to bolt it on, post 1989.

    Indeed you could argue that this is one of the dividing lines between Nationalism and Republicanism.

    In the Republican worldview, the goals are set By History. And are to be achieved, no matter what.

    Remember what was said of the rejection of the Treaty? “We deny the Right of the People to do Wrong.”

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,950
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one

    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    John Gray's tortured metaphors impress no one.

    What's Dura's take on Starmer's "Leninist" party management ?
    Stretching back over many previous GEs is the tendency for speculation about existential breaking-the-mould type outcomes, yet every time the result tends back towards Labour beats Tory or Tories beat Labour and the two-party system trundles on leaving so many of us disenfranchised. I'd love this time to be different, but we have been here before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    .
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one

    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    John Gray's tortured metaphors impress no one.

    What's Dura's take on Starmer's "Leninist" party management ?
    Stretching back over many previous GEs is the tendency for speculation about existential breaking-the-mould type outcomes, yet every time the result tends back towards Labour beats Tory or Tories beat Labour and the two-party system trundles on leaving so many of us disenfranchised. I'd love this time to be different, but we have been here before.
    I agree.
    But I suspect Gray would be publishing his jeremiads whatever the electoral system, and whatever the government.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913
    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    My daughter was listening to his audiobook on her walk to work*, coincidentally listening to the chapter on excess exposure to the sun, on the day when news of his disappearance broke. She was genuinely upset about it yesterday having adopted a number of his ideas into her daily life. I am surprised at the number of people who had not come across him.

    *One of the things inspired by his book.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933

    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂

    The btl contributors on Wings are just hilarious, often cuttingly cruel, vitriolic and utterly deluded in the same post. One of my guilty pleasures.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one

    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    John Gray's tortured metaphors impress no one.

    What's Dura's take on Starmer's "Leninist" party management ?
    Stretching back over many previous GEs is the tendency for speculation about existential breaking-the-mould type outcomes, yet every time the result tends back towards Labour beats Tory or Tories beat Labour and the two-party system trundles on leaving so many of us disenfranchised. I'd love this time to be different, but we have been here before.
    I agree.
    But I suspect Gray would be publishing his jeremiads whatever the electoral system, and whatever the government.
    Not quite. Some governments would clap him in jail for criticising them.

    Democracy is imperfect but far better than "authoritarian" governments.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really liking the Labour plan for converting spare Primary classrooms, due to falling rolls, into nurseries.
    Seems a howlingly obvious move.

    I'd rather they used falling rolls to improve staff/pupil ratios, which in turn should lead to better outcomes (and is also what private schools are paid for).
    Well. OK.
    But then where do the kids with no nursery place, or can't afford the sky high fees, go?
    Where do these children go now? Do they stay at home with mummy or daddy, perhaps?

    It sounds a bit like SpAds brainstormed killing three birds with one stone. Presumably all the redundant primary school teachers are moved across to run the nurseries because at a 10,000 feet view, children are children so it's all the same really. And the best part is posh families, such as MPs and their SpAds, can have two parents with high-flying careers with free childcare on the state.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,186
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,221

    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂

    You’ve said before, many times, but I’ve forgotten! This is in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East, yes? I hear the SNP weren’t targeting it until Ross pushed out Duguid.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one

    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    John Gray's tortured metaphors impress no one.

    What's Dura's take on Starmer's "Leninist" party management ?
    Stretching back over many previous GEs is the tendency for speculation about existential breaking-the-mould type outcomes, yet every time the result tends back towards Labour beats Tory or Tories beat Labour and the two-party system trundles on leaving so many of us disenfranchised. I'd love this time to be different, but we have been here before.
    I agree.
    But I suspect Gray would be publishing his jeremiads whatever the electoral system, and whatever the government.
    Not quite. Some governments would clap him in jail for criticising them.

    Democracy is imperfect but far better than "authoritarian" governments.
    You have chosen a difficult example to make that argument but I suppose that is the point!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442

    HYUFD said:

    Labour to ban over 80 year olds from the House of Lords it is reported
    https://x.com/richardmarcj/status/1799810016465359099

    Yes I can see telling 80-year-olds they are past it will not cause any embarrassment when dealing with our major ally.
    I think it should be a more nuanced approach. Many of the over 80s in the Lords are better than most of the under 80s.
    Throw out those who never attend - or those who do not regularly speak, or take part in HoL business.
    I still like the proposal made by the Barrister Carl Gardner, who advised the Blair Government on the Human RIghts Act, that the Lords should have a larger body of "speaking Lords", who could be appointed, and a smaller body of "Elected Lords" or "Working Lords", who get to vote.

    That way we get the benefit of wider experience and expertise more integrated than say witnesses testifying to a select committee.

    There are possibly a couple of other benefits, in that the retirement age could be applied to the Elected group, and people who retire from there can get a period in the Speaking group.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808

    I'd never heard of Mosley, for what it's worth.

    No, nor me…. Had no idea who he was.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,186
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one

    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    John Gray's tortured metaphors impress no one.
    They impress me. Although yes, his writing is terrible and he never uses one word when ten will do. You have to read his books with a pickaxe.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Nigelb said:
    It certainly is a mixed picture, with the populist right gaining seats in France and Germany, but elsewhere not doing well. Looks as if the moderate rightists will be the real winners.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    edited June 10
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.

    You're a smart guy, too. But by your own account have done the odd daft thing.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:
    It certainly is a mixed picture, with the populist right gaining seats in France and Germany, but elsewhere not doing well. Looks as if the moderate rightists will be the real winners.
    Governments do badly, oppositions do well. Not a cast-iron rule, but mostly right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    So what happened then? He fell? Heart attack? There is an air of mystery to it, and his wife’s remark - “he almost made it” - seems positively bizarre if he was simply doing a stroll to the resort

    Coincidentally or not, the wife of an acquaintance of mine was murdered on a Greek island in 2019. Quite big news at the time

    Lo, even in Paradise the serpent lurks
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,950
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,512
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour to ban over 80 year olds from the House of Lords it is reported
    https://x.com/richardmarcj/status/1799810016465359099

    Yes I can see telling 80-year-olds they are past it will not cause any embarrassment when dealing with our major ally.
    I think it should be a more nuanced approach. Many of the over 80s in the Lords are better than most of the under 80s.
    Throw out those who never attend - or those who do not regularly speak, or take part in HoL business.
    I still like the proposal made by the Barrister Carl Gardner, who advised the Blair Government on the Human RIghts Act, that the Lords should have a larger body of "speaking Lords", who could be appointed, and a smaller body of "Elected Lords" or "Working Lords", who get to vote.

    That way we get the benefit of wider experience and expertise more integrated than say witnesses testifying to a select committee.

    There are possibly a couple of other benefits, in that the retirement age could be applied to the Elected group, and people who retire from there can get a period in the Speaking group.
    Speaking of splitting roles, I was listening to a news item this morning about delays in court hearings. I’m not sure how the magistrates court system works in the UK but would there be any merit in separating “guilty courts” and “not guilty courts”.

    My back of fag packet thinking was that if you had a dedicated set of courts for guilty only pleas they could churn through a load of cases and have magistrates who are simply concerned with sentencing using the guidelines (which might allow for new magistrates to be fast tracked if purely working by the book on guilty pleas).

    Then the not guilty pleas could be dealt with by courts where the case has to be heard properly and a decision arrived at which might be better for more experienced magistrates.

    This way, if you’ve done something stupid and are prepared to cop for it then it’s dealt with quickly and not bogged down in the court system, reparations or punishments are made or completed quickly and life goes on.

    Maybe it is triaged already but not sure if this would help ease up the system.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,701

    I'd never heard of Mosley, for what it's worth.

    No, nor me…. Had no idea who he was.
    Cricket commentator?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour to ban over 80 year olds from the House of Lords it is reported
    https://x.com/richardmarcj/status/1799810016465359099

    Yes I can see telling 80-year-olds they are past it will not cause any embarrassment when dealing with our major ally.
    I think it should be a more nuanced approach. Many of the over 80s in the Lords are better than most of the under 80s.
    Throw out those who never attend - or those who do not regularly speak, or take part in HoL business.
    There should be a retirement route, keeping the title (and potentially the 'club' rights) but relinquishing sitting and voting rights, and those who don't contribute should be encouraged to take it.
    There is, and has been for ten years.

    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/retirement-from-the-house-of-lords/
    It's not working.
    Why do you think not?

    As of May 2024, 178 peers have resigned or retired, and a further ten peers were removed under the Act's provisions regarding non-attendance. The first peer to resign was Julian Grenfell, 3rd Baron Grenfell, on 1 October 2014.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Reform_Act_2014
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
    I don't think the digital nomad phenomenon is fundamental. It's very high profile because of the influencer class (i.e. bikini pics in racist Gulf dictatorships). But for high-paid jobs, the most developed countries like Portugal and the Netherlands are already moving away from these visas - locals seem to really hate the housing market impacts. So you need to settle for the next tier down (Balkans) or even further afield. And then the trade-off with the UK is much more stark.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,512
    edited June 10
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Watched Mosley docs, not so much as he went further into weight loss, but things like 'Pain, Pus and Poison' on the history of pharmaceuticals.

    Wasn't so aware of his earlier career in TV production.

    Some of the reaction on here is all a bit Bagpuss: 'I've not heard of him therefore all the mice on the mechanical mouse organ can't have heard of him'

    I had a heart op last year and in the lead up I had listened to his “Just one thing” programme. I had been really slack about regular exercise and thought I better get my shit together before my op so I heal quicker and his radio programme was the catalyst.

    I started small with his recommendations on resistance exercises and it got me out of a slough to the point of now not remotely feeling happy if I haven’t done an hour of weights and resistance exercise five days per week. It’s made me happier and healthier and, if it was remotely possible, looking even better.

    I also celebrated 6 months without touching a fag on Saturday and I really think the exercise helped with a better attitude about my own health in general and thus quitting smoking.

    So thanks to Michael Mosley, RIP.

    Yes, one thing I liked about Moseley was his approach to health. It wasn't about magic drugs or AI, it was all about empowering people to take small steps to improve their own health. His programs featured him, but were very positive and patient centered.
    He also wasn’t remotely judgemental or hectoring which helped a lot - much more “enjoy life but just make this odd tweak and you will be able to enjoy life longer and better”. Which is a sad irony really that he has helped many people live longer and his own life cut short by an unfortunate decision.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    Relatedly I had an idea for a TV cooking programme last night


    Here’s the pitch. Jamie Oliver leads a Napoleonic style army rampaging around Europe, but when they vanquish a city, leaving it a heap of ashes, he whips up a quick “fifteen minute meal” using the ashes for heat, then feeds this to the raped and starved survivors, who laugh at his chirpy banter



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    So what happened then? He fell? Heart attack? There is an air of mystery to it, and his wife’s remark - “he almost made it” - seems positively bizarre if he was simply doing a stroll to the resort

    Coincidentally or not, the wife of an acquaintance of mine was murdered on a Greek island in 2019. Quite big news at the time

    Lo, even in Paradise the serpent lurks
    He took a wrong turn, most likely.
    Have a look at the island; it's rocky with lots of small hills which look very similar.
    People make mistakes.

    A short walk became an arduous one, and the heat did for him, though he seems almost to have made it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,565
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    It's astonishing.

    Still more so he seemed to fall about 100yds short of the next beach resort.

    Another minute's walk and he'd have been there.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    And as ever, ask the question why this value? Why 80? Why not 90? 70? 66? Is there a reason for the figure, or has a SPAD pulled it out of his backside?

    While I’m v much a Lords-reform type, in the context of the current set up it seems very arbitrary indeed and suspect SPADial rectal origin.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    DavidL said:

    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂

    The btl contributors on Wings are just hilarious, often cuttingly cruel, vitriolic and utterly deluded in the same post. One of my guilty pleasures.
    And talking of the batshit insane here is MTG at Trump's rally in Nevada this weekend pointing out that Jesus Christ was also a convicted felon:
    https://x.com/AlexThomp/status/1799905569903444202?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1799905569903444202|twgr^fd5e847478e004c8502c345bc75bdffe21fb6d5b|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/6/9/2245748/-Donald-in-heat-I-don-t-care-about-you-I-just-want-your-vote-I-don-t-care

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,565
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
    No-one wants to hear this but a big reason why taxes have gone up so much and there's no money for anything is that HMG is now paying tens of billions a year extra in interest on government debt. Effectively, for nothing.

    One reason they haven't mentioned it, I imagine, is that it might create a political storm to cancel or renege on the debt, which would collapse our financial system.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    Relatedly I had an idea for a TV cooking programme last night


    Here’s the pitch. Jamie Oliver leads a Napoleonic style army rampaging around Europe, but when they vanquish a city, leaving it a heap of ashes, he whips up a quick “fifteen minute meal” using the ashes for heat, then feeds this to the raped and starved survivors, who laugh at his chirpy banter



    Only if he can sonehow pointlessly work his wife, kids and Genarro Contaldo into it
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    edited June 10
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    So what happened then? He fell? Heart attack? There is an air of mystery to it, and his wife’s remark - “he almost made it” - seems positively bizarre if he was simply doing a stroll to the resort

    Coincidentally or not, the wife of an acquaintance of mine was murdered on a Greek island in 2019. Quite big news at the time

    Lo, even in Paradise the serpent lurks
    Oh yeah, snake bites were mentioned too.

    So who do you think did it? Big Pharma, the organised health club lobby, Chinese labs, the Russians, aliens or the woke blob?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂

    You’ve said before, many times, but I’ve forgotten! This is in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East, yes? I hear the SNP weren’t targeting it until Ross pushed out Duguid.
    Correct on both counts. Now they think they will walk it - at least that’s the public face. In private? They must be picking up on how many SNP voters are happy with them.

    I expect they will win the seat, but I’m going to have fun pointing out their flaws
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,846
    Mr. EPG, I forget if it was Portugal or Italy but there was some kickback against a digital nomad approach that saw them pay less tax, on average, than locals. However, one of the reasons such visas and schemes come into being is the need for skilled workers in sectors such as tech. This can be persistent, or it can be used (as per Portugal or Italy) to get a sector going from a very low base.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Probably. I’ve experienced 40+ in Peru. It’s a whole different world to 35.

    Standing still, in shade, is unpleasant. In direct sunlight you start wondering how long you could manage to walk on the flat. Any kind of exertion…

    Mind you, the Peruvian Army Special Forces was doing full kit runs along the roads. They lost some soldiers to that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Watched Mosley docs, not so much as he went further into weight loss, but things like 'Pain, Pus and Poison' on the history of pharmaceuticals.

    Wasn't so aware of his earlier career in TV production.

    Some of the reaction on here is all a bit Bagpuss: 'I've not heard of him therefore all the mice on the mechanical mouse organ can't have heard of him'

    I had a heart op last year and in the lead up I had listened to his “Just one thing” programme. I had been really slack about regular exercise and thought I better get my shit together before my op so I heal quicker and his radio programme was the catalyst.

    I started small with his recommendations on resistance exercises and it got me out of a slough to the point of now not remotely feeling happy if I haven’t done an hour of weights and resistance exercise five days per week. It’s made me happier and healthier and, if it was remotely possible, looking even better.

    I also celebrated 6 months without touching a fag on Saturday and I really think the exercise helped with a better attitude about my own health in general and thus quitting smoking.

    So thanks to Michael Mosley, RIP.

    Yes, one thing I liked about Moseley was his approach to health. It wasn't about magic drugs or AI, it was all about empowering people to take small steps to improve their own health. His programs featured him, but were very positive and patient centered.
    Centrist prejudice showing, but I suspect we would benefit from a similar approach to national governance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    So what happened then? He fell? Heart attack? There is an air of mystery to it, and his wife’s remark - “he almost made it” - seems positively bizarre if he was simply doing a stroll to the resort

    Coincidentally or not, the wife of an acquaintance of mine was murdered on a Greek island in 2019. Quite big news at the time

    Lo, even in Paradise the serpent lurks
    He took a wrong turn, most likely.
    Have a look at the island; it's rocky with lots of small hills which look very similar.
    People make mistakes.

    A short walk became an arduous one, and the heat did for him, though he seems almost to have made it.
    Fair enough. It is easy to come a cropper on walks

    I once nearly died on a spontaneous hike around the canyonlands of Utah. I parked my car and plunged into the red stone maze - wildly stupid, in retrospect - but it looked so inviting and safe and pretty. Within half an hour I realised I was completely lost, and in serious danger, one little Utah canyon looks very much like another, and they are known death traps. Then I nearly stepped on a rattlesnake and in my shock reeled back - and miraculously recognised a distant rocky outcrop from my walk in, and thus I escaped

    Could have got very nasty

    Also got seriously lost in thick Tobago rainforest once, but fortunately realised all I had to do was descend to the coast and start walking - and eventually I would hit a beach and/or a village, and so it was

    That’s generally good advice when lost, go downhill and follow water
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    I confess to being rather amazed so many PBers had not heard of Michael Mosley; what an odd insular bunch you are.

    I reckon a poll of the country before his disappearance would have seen him easily more recognised than any politico bar PMs and LOTOs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    EPG said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
    I don't think the digital nomad phenomenon is fundamental. It's very high profile because of the influencer class (i.e. bikini pics in racist Gulf dictatorships). But for high-paid jobs, the most developed countries like Portugal and the Netherlands are already moving away from these visas - locals seem to really hate the housing market impacts. So you need to settle for the next tier down (Balkans) or even further afield. And then the trade-off with the UK is much more stark.
    We still see it in places. Doctors down under. Techies to America (although that market has tightened in the last year or two). Flintknappers to recovering holiday resorts.

    The big impact is not from individuals emigrating but companies and even whole sectors being sold off to foreign investors. The IP goes abroad; profits go abroad; heck, even the subsidy cheques go abroad.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,623
    geoffw said:

    Interesting that this forum splits between those who think highly of Michael Mosley and those who had never heard of him. I think it reflects the fact that the broadcast media no longer provides a common reference point and that so many of us stay within our own little bubbles

    In a slight twist on that, it turns out I know people who actually knew him IRL (via their work). I did not know of him myself.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477

    I'd never heard of Mosley, for what it's worth.

    He was Bernie's right- hand, New Labour donor, partaker of call girls and owner of his dad's Nazi uniform. Oh, not that one...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240
    I can hear Mosley narrating a doc about his own demise in my mind's eye/ear !

    RIP
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    EPG said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
    I don't think the digital nomad phenomenon is fundamental. It's very high profile because of the influencer class (i.e. bikini pics in racist Gulf dictatorships). But for high-paid jobs, the most developed countries like Portugal and the Netherlands are already moving away from these visas - locals seem to really hate the housing market impacts. So you need to settle for the next tier down (Balkans) or even further afield. And then the trade-off with the UK is much more stark.
    When I was in Budapest last year I was struck by how ‘digital nomad’ was part of the urban lexicon, usually with a disparaging undertone of ‘freeloader spending hours using the cafe’s power and wifi with a single flat white’.

    I don’t know how genuinely widespread a phenomenon it is; my gut tells me that by and large if people can stay at or near home, they generally will - there needs to be major push and/or pull factors otherwise.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,623

    Leon said:

    Relatedly I had an idea for a TV cooking programme last night


    Here’s the pitch. Jamie Oliver leads a Napoleonic style army rampaging around Europe, but when they vanquish a city, leaving it a heap of ashes, he whips up a quick “fifteen minute meal” using the ashes for heat, then feeds this to the raped and starved survivors, who laugh at his chirpy banter



    Only if he can sonehow pointlessly work his wife, kids and Genarro Contaldo into it
    Baggage train.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303

    I confess to being rather amazed so many PBers had not heard of Michael Mosley; what an odd insular bunch you are.

    I reckon a poll of the country before his disappearance would have seen him easily more recognised than any politico bar PMs and LOTOs.

    He got parodied on Dead Ringers, which is a reasonable proxy for fame with the public.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,062

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
    Heat plus exertion plus a touch of dehydration quickly leads to situations where people can die even in much lower temperatures, like that squaddie who died in the Brecon Beacons a few years ago.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,565
    Never go anywhere in anything resembling heat without at least 2 litres of water on you folks.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 10
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
    Heat plus exertion plus a touch of dehydration quickly leads to situations where people can die even in much lower temperatures, like that squaddie who died in the Brecon Beacons a few years ago.
    I haven't followed the accounts in detail.

    Did he advise on hydration whilst walking? That would be in his 101 surely? Isn't stuff like 2+ litres of water a day, more when in the sun, you can still sunburn when swimming and you field cool, and all the rest of it, just basic.

    (For the PB poll, I think I was *aware* of him, but I get my advice from various other places - such as NHS peeps, knowledgeable diabetic friends / acqaintances, gym coaches, cycling and walking friends and so on.)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,846
    Mr. Pointer, is it insular to hardly ever watch TV? Or is it pretty normal nowadays?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,745
    It brings home the reality of life in hot climes under the sun. Perhaps we should cherish our benign cool damp weather instead of complain about it
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    I confess to being rather amazed so many PBers had not heard of Michael Mosley; what an odd insular bunch you are.

    I reckon a poll of the country before his disappearance would have seen him easily more recognised than any politico bar PMs and LOTOs.

    I’m quite surprised too - as well as a lot of TV he was an ever-present on the BBC homepage, had a lot of popular books published and was a fixture in the papers, most notably the Mail - and this is speaking as someone who never particularly engaged with his work.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209
    edited June 10

    emily m
    @maitlis
    ·
    1h
    Close ( French ) friend in Paris tonight tells me she’s not surprised … 🇫🇷
    “Someone told me in paris 3 weeks ago macron will dissolve parliament to put bardella in power so bardella can really mess up in the next 2 years and they ll loose the presidential.
    That s a tactic…”

    I suspect Macron is hoping a non le Pen coalition government will emerge after his party's minority government has failed. ie the opposite of this. French politics is driven more by who you don't like than who you like and Macron is betting Le Pen's party will be more disliked than a specific alternative that isn't centered around him.

    It's a high risk strategy.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two articles from John Gray.


    "Rishi Sunak’s right-wing pantomime impresses no one
    The Prime Minister’s performative populism and unending U-turns are acts in a music-hall farce."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/05/rishi-sunaks-right-wing-pantomime-impresses-no-one


    "Keir Starmer’s promise of stability will come back to haunt him
    With Britain in ruins, change without disruption means no change at all."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/06/keir-starmer-promise-stability-will-come-back-haunt-him

    non-paywall versions
    With the monolith Starmer constructed already fragmenting, not even a Labour majority as humongous as that posited in a recent YouGov poll will secure stable government. When that becomes clear, voters will abandon Britain’s derelict party system. Only if electoral reform takes place can dealing with a society headed for penury become politically possible. Or the ruins of a once first-world country beggared by its political class will go on rotting away.
    It's all a bit bonkers, almost Dolchstoßlegende.

    There's lots wrong with our country, but it really isn't fundamentally broken nor does it need some authoritarian revolution.
    We haven't solved the digital nomad problem (what used to be called "the brain drain"). This makes tax increasingly difficult to get. But we still have a big government and spending is increasingly difficult to restrain. We've been patching the difference with debt, but then interest rates went up. That's a real problem and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    We're selling off the ground beneath our feet to foreigners. That's conceptually wrong and meets the definition of "fundamentally broken".

    There are others but I'm sure you can impute them from my previous rants.
    No-one wants to hear this but a big reason why taxes have gone up so much and there's no money for anything is that HMG is now paying tens of billions a year extra in interest on government debt. Effectively, for nothing.

    One reason they haven't mentioned it, I imagine, is that it might create a political storm to cancel or renege on the debt, which would collapse our financial system.
    Defaulting on our debt would be a *very* bad option of course.

    I'd vote for a one-off raid on wealth to pay it off though: Say 5% for on assets above £100k, excluding main residence and pension pots. That would cost me a fair bit but nothing like as much as I'd lose off my portfolio if the UK defaulted. Would save us £100bn p.a. in debt interest.

    It's our debt after all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    If nothing else, Mosleygate shows that the British still love a mystery that begins with a dead body found in suspicious circumstances

    The summary of what happened to the poor doc - or what we know so far - reads like the blurb for a good Agatha Christie
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    edited June 10
    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800056816140718443?s=46

    From The Times

    Suella Braverman urges Conservatives to embrace Nigel Farage

    ‘We need to, in the future, to find some way to work together because there shouldn’t be big differences between us

    ‘I would welcome Nigel into the Conservative party. There’s not much difference really between him and many of the policies that we stand for

    ‘We are a broad church, we should be a welcoming party and an inclusive party and if someone is supportive of the party, that’s a precondition and they want Conservatives to get elected then they should be welcomed’


    Keep holding those Reform bets for crossover…I think we hopefully get D-Day gate and Farage Debate taking full effect in fieldwork from today/tomorrow
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,684
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,623

    And as ever, ask the question why this value? Why 80? Why not 90? 70? 66? Is there a reason for the figure, or has a SPAD pulled it out of his backside?

    Have we *always* had a process of policymaking by SPADs pulling "notions" from their arse and briefing the press (but we weren't privy to this mechanism), or is this all post-1997?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,931
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
    Heat plus exertion plus a touch of dehydration quickly leads to situations where people can die even in much lower temperatures, like that squaddie who died in the Brecon Beacons a few years ago.
    I haven't followd the accounts in detail.

    Did he advise on hydration whilst walking? That would be in his 101 surely?

    (For the PB poll, I think I was *aware* of him, but I get my advice from various other places - such as NHS peeps, knowledgeable diabetic friends / acqaintances, gym coaches, cycling and walking friends and so on.)
    Oddly enough, some people do not seem to have much of a sense of thirst. Mrs J is one: she can go all day without drinking anything, and then wonder why she feels off in the evening. I have to provide her with regular cups of tea during the day when she's working at home.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    geoffw said:

    It brings home the reality of life in hot climes under the sun. Perhaps we should cherish our benign cool damp weather instead of complain about it

    *considers this*

    And no. That’s a big fat no

    Give me warm sunny weather and when it’s really warm I’ll sip wine under a tree rather than going for insane hikes. Thanks
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    dixiedean said:

    Really liking the Labour plan for converting spare Primary classrooms, due to falling rolls, into nurseries.
    Seems a howlingly obvious move.

    Tbh doesn’t seem particularly partisan as an idea as well - I could imagine this having been a Coalition idea (were the circumstances similar).

    Anecdata alert, but I used to be CoG in a Manchester primary where the co-location of nurseries is widespread. The school-readiness of the children coming from the on-site nursery was markedly different (in a positive way) to those who did not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    NEW THREAD

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Mr. Pointer, is it insular to hardly ever watch TV? Or is it pretty normal nowadays?

    Probably neither, somewhere in between I'd say, but as others have pointed out he was regularly on the BBC, DM and other news sites' home pages. We can't do the survey now obviously, so we'll never know.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800056816140718443?s=46

    From The Times

    Suella Braverman urges Conservatives to embrace Nigel Farage

    ‘We need to, in the future, to find some way to work together because there shouldn’t be big differences between us

    ‘I would welcome Nigel into the Conservative party. There’s not much difference really between him and many of the policies that we stand for

    ‘We are a broad church, we should be a welcoming party and an inclusive party and if someone is supportive of the party, that’s a precondition and they want Conservatives to get elected then they should be welcomed’


    Keep holding those Reform bets for crossover…

    Despicable in outlook, desperate for attention, dangerous for the country, and disastrous for her party. She is the hectoring harridan of a Farage fawning faction that cannot convince by fair means so is determined to subvert by foul.

    If Braverman gulls the remnant of the Tory party to turn itself into a satrapy of Farage’s ego it won’t save the Tory party but condemn it to deserved oblivion.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,512

    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
    Heat plus exertion plus a touch of dehydration quickly leads to situations where people can die even in much lower temperatures, like that squaddie who died in the Brecon Beacons a few years ago.
    I haven't followd the accounts in detail.

    Did he advise on hydration whilst walking? That would be in his 101 surely?

    (For the PB poll, I think I was *aware* of him, but I get my advice from various other places - such as NHS peeps, knowledgeable diabetic friends / acqaintances, gym coaches, cycling and walking friends and so on.)
    Oddly enough, some people do not seem to have much of a sense of thirst. Mrs J is one: she can go all day without drinking anything, and then wonder why she feels off in the evening. I have to provide her with regular cups of tea during the day when she's working at home.
    Haha, she’s so playing you. “Oh JJ I feel so awful at night, I just don’t seem to remember to hydrate during the day”

    “ don’t worry Mrs JJ, I’ll take my time to make tea for you all day”.

    Mrs JJ’s internal voice “result.”
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,623
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    So what happened then? He fell? Heart attack? There is an air of mystery to it, and his wife’s remark - “he almost made it” - seems positively bizarre if he was simply doing a stroll to the resort

    Coincidentally or not, the wife of an acquaintance of mine was murdered on a Greek island in 2019. Quite big news at the time

    Lo, even in Paradise the serpent lurks
    He took a wrong turn, most likely.
    Have a look at the island; it's rocky with lots of small hills which look very similar.
    People make mistakes.

    A short walk became an arduous one, and the heat did for him, though he seems almost to have made it.
    Fair enough. It is easy to come a cropper on walks

    I once nearly died on a spontaneous hike around the canyonlands of Utah. I parked my car and plunged into the red stone maze - wildly stupid, in retrospect - but it looked so inviting and safe and pretty. Within half an hour I realised I was completely lost, and in serious danger, one little Utah canyon looks very much like another, and they are known death traps. Then I nearly stepped on a rattlesnake and in my shock reeled back - and miraculously recognised a distant rocky outcrop from my walk in, and thus I escaped

    Could have got very nasty

    Also got seriously lost in thick Tobago rainforest once, but fortunately realised all I had to do was descend to the coast and start walking - and eventually I would hit a beach and/or a village, and so it was

    That’s generally good advice when lost, go downhill and follow water
    Works in unfamiliar cities too.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,931
    mwadams said:

    And as ever, ask the question why this value? Why 80? Why not 90? 70? 66? Is there a reason for the figure, or has a SPAD pulled it out of his backside?

    Have we *always* had a process of policymaking by SPADs pulling "notions" from their arse and briefing the press (but we weren't privy to this mechanism), or is this all post-1997?
    My *guess* would be that it has always gone on - or at least SPADs have tried to. It might even be a good thing; to provide alternative ideas to those produced by the ministers or the civil service.

    What has changed is the news cycle. In ye olden days, there was a delay that might allow saner minds to go: "Hmmm.... perhaps not."

    Now, someone has a wizard wheeze and it's immediately announced to the media, and on everyone's twitter/instagram feed within minutes.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Mr. EPG, I forget if it was Portugal or Italy but there was some kickback against a digital nomad approach that saw them pay less tax, on average, than locals. However, one of the reasons such visas and schemes come into being is the need for skilled workers in sectors such as tech. This can be persistent, or it can be used (as per Portugal or Italy) to get a sector going from a very low base.

    The only thing to add is that Portugal has been strategically trying hard to attract the tech sector. Makes sense on paper: GMT, but sun and modest cost of living. However, this particular scheme appears to have also attracted lots of Northern European pensioners and Angolan oil princelings.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,931

    And as ever, ask the question why this value? Why 80? Why not 90? 70? 66? Is there a reason for the figure, or has a SPAD pulled it out of his backside?

    Why is the pensionable age set at an arbitrary 67? Why is voting etc set at an arbitrary 18?

    Best to just bin the HoL and not worry about age barriers.
    The problem with binning the HoL is that you then assume the HoC gets things correct all the time. They don't. IMV the HoL provides a useful revising role for poor legislation.

    Get rid of that at your peril.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    ...
    Leon said:

    If nothing else, Mosleygate shows that the British still love a mystery that begins with a dead body found in suspicious circumstances

    The summary of what happened to the poor doc - or what we know so far - reads like the blurb for a good Agatha Christie

    Mosleygate?

    A healthy older man unwisely took a walk on a Greek island in the heat of the midday sun without his mobile phone. He didn't wire-tap the Democratic Campaign headquarters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    edited June 10

    Never go anywhere in anything resembling heat without at least 2 litres of water on you folks.

    Yup!

    I have no idea who this guy who died was, but good advice to carry plenty of water with you. In the hot sun you can easily drink a litre per hour. I keep a gallon of drinking water in the car just for local or highway driving, and would take a lot more if going off-road or camping.

    In my part of the world it’s illegal to work outside in the sun during the middle of the day in summer, starting next week, and employers have to either erect shades or have workers split shifts. https://www.khaleejtimes.com/uae/uae-announces-midday-break-from-june-15-to-september-15-up-to-dh50000-fine-for-violators
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 10

    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
    I've never heard of him either.

    Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
    Do none of you hooligans listen to Radio 4?
    I'd never heard of him either. And not just 'not heard of him but recognise the name' or 'not heard of the name but actually aware of his work' in the manner of most famous people in popular culture I've never heard of - but genuinely ignorant that such a person existed.
    I was talking to my wife last night about this. According to a quick straw poll (me, wife, two of wife's friends), 75% of humans knew who he was and were aware of his works.
    Apparently he was well known among a) people who watched daytime television, and b) people who are interested in weight loss. There may therefore be a bit of a gender difference in awareness of who he is.
    He had 15 minutes slots on Radio 4 called "Just one thing" suggesting very minor lifestyle changes that could lengthen ones life. I have adopted one or two including eating (specifically) cooked tomatoes to reduce an enlarged prostate.

    Somewhat ironic that his life was cut short on one of his suggested stout daily walks. For those of us who followed his advice he is a great loss.
    Indeed. His 'just one thing' programmes are usually great listening, if the original idea of being able to improve your life by making a few small changes has ended up morphing into a massive shopping list of changes that if you did them all would take over your life completely.

    I see nothing in the further details released to suggest that yesterday's rash and premature suggestions of suicide have anything to them?

    The weather has been unusually hot in Greece recently, even for the time of year, and he seems to have died alarmingly close to a beach resort toward which he was presumably heading.
    Seems that he most likely took a wrong turn and missed his direct route back to where he was staying.
    They now have CCTV of him disappearing from sight just before where he was found, as he was making his way down to that beach.

    It was over 40 deg, so what would have been a fairly short walk became a fatally difficult one.
    I once did a walk on a Greek island in cloudless 36C heat. I soon realised that doing a walk in cloudless 36C heat is absolutely insane, which is why the locals never do it, only mad dogs and Englishmen. I have not done it since

    Mosley was a very clever man and a physician, and 67 years old - old enough to know better and also old enough to be wary of overstressing an ageing body. Why go for a walk if it is 40C??? Have a swim, or a siesta. Quite odd
    Just going back to where they were staying, reportedly.
    It wasn't very far.
    And we're British, and haven't seen the sun since last September. So we routinely deny the experience of those used to living in hot conditions. Mosley maybe thought he was ahead of most by walking round under an umbrella?
    Yes but even those used to living in hot conditions do not routinely keel over if they pop out. Yes, there is a higher risk but it is not 100 per cent fatal. We had 40C here a couple of years ago, and much of France for months.
    Heat plus exertion plus a touch of dehydration quickly leads to situations where people can die even in much lower temperatures, like that squaddie who died in the Brecon Beacons a few years ago.
    I haven't followd the accounts in detail.

    Did he advise on hydration whilst walking? That would be in his 101 surely?

    (For the PB poll, I think I was *aware* of him, but I get my advice from various other places - such as NHS peeps, knowledgeable diabetic friends / acqaintances, gym coaches, cycling and walking friends and so on.)
    Oddly enough, some people do not seem to have much of a sense of thirst. Mrs J is one: she can go all day without drinking anything, and then wonder why she feels off in the evening. I have to provide her with regular cups of tea during the day when she's working at home.
    It may be that these are more prominent for me, since being diabetic T1 means getting various things not-very-wrong can put me in a coma quite quickly.

    In the sun, for example, my required insulin dose can be double the normal, but if one gets that wrong - say it is only 1.5x the normal today because circs - an extra dose can send me low which can cause a hypo, non self-awareness, loss of mental control, and weird behaviour in quite a short time, potentially very occasionally requiring anything from intervention from a friend-who-has-been-given-prior-permission to hospitalisation.

    It's something that needs to be constantly managed to catch any potential issues early. For a number, I think I have had one or maybe two sudden D-related hospitalisations in 25 years - down to unforeseeable circs such as a strange infection. The most serious one was two weeks kept under in ICU.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 10

    mwadams said:

    And as ever, ask the question why this value? Why 80? Why not 90? 70? 66? Is there a reason for the figure, or has a SPAD pulled it out of his backside?

    Have we *always* had a process of policymaking by SPADs pulling "notions" from their arse and briefing the press (but we weren't privy to this mechanism), or is this all post-1997?
    My *guess* would be that it has always gone on - or at least SPADs have tried to. It might even be a good thing; to provide alternative ideas to those produced by the ministers or the civil service.

    What has changed is the news cycle. In ye olden days, there was a delay that might allow saner minds to go: "Hmmm.... perhaps not."

    Now, someone has a wizard wheeze and it's immediately announced to the media, and on everyone's twitter/instagram feed within minutes.
    I thought we had always had a process called "Bizarre notions served up yo every new minister by the Civil Service", that most of them - but not all - sweep into the round filing cabinet by the desk.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,362

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800056816140718443?s=46

    From The Times

    Suella Braverman urges Conservatives to embrace Nigel Farage

    ‘We need to, in the future, to find some way to work together because there shouldn’t be big differences between us

    ‘I would welcome Nigel into the Conservative party. There’s not much difference really between him and many of the policies that we stand for

    ‘We are a broad church, we should be a welcoming party and an inclusive party and if someone is supportive of the party, that’s a precondition and they want Conservatives to get elected then they should be welcomed’


    Keep holding those Reform bets for crossover…I think we hopefully get D-Day gate and Farage Debate taking full effect in fieldwork from today/tomorrow

    Except Farage doesn't want to be welcomed into the Conservative party, he wants to welcome hard right Conservatives like Braverman into Reform
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    We started advertising on Facebook over the weekend.

    Cyber Nats are fun, aren’t they 😳😂

    The btl contributors on Wings are just hilarious, often cuttingly cruel, vitriolic and utterly deluded in the same post. One of my guilty pleasures.
    And talking of the batshit insane here is MTG at Trump's rally in Nevada this weekend pointing out that Jesus Christ was also a convicted felon:
    https://x.com/AlexThomp/status/1799905569903444202?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1799905569903444202|twgr^fd5e847478e004c8502c345bc75bdffe21fb6d5b|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/6/9/2245748/-Donald-in-heat-I-don-t-care-about-you-I-just-want-your-vote-I-don-t-care

    Matthew 4:7, and Merchant of Venice 1:3 are on point.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,048
    Leon said:

    If nothing else, Mosleygate shows that the British still love a mystery that begins with a dead body found in suspicious circumstances

    The summary of what happened to the poor doc - or what we know so far - reads like the blurb for a good Agatha Christie

    Simon Calder’s crown as most ubiquitous tv expert remains firmly on his napper. Suspicious if you ask me..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503

    Mr. Pointer, is it insular to hardly ever watch TV? Or is it pretty normal nowadays?

    Or listen to R4 occasionally; or read books, or of books...

    You're entirely excused for not reading the Mail, of course.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800056816140718443?s=46

    From The Times

    Suella Braverman urges Conservatives to embrace Nigel Farage

    ‘We need to, in the future, to find some way to work together because there shouldn’t be big differences between us

    ‘I would welcome Nigel into the Conservative party. There’s not much difference really between him and many of the policies that we stand for

    ‘We are a broad church, we should be a welcoming party and an inclusive party and if someone is supportive of the party, that’s a precondition and they want Conservatives to get elected then they should be welcomed’


    Keep holding those Reform bets for crossover…I think we hopefully get D-Day gate and Farage Debate taking full effect in fieldwork from today/tomorrow

    Bearing in mind the vile racist hint given by Farage as to why he believes Sunak left D.Day celebrations early, if Suella were to look into the mirror she would realise she is not Farage's type.

    Why are Conservatives embracing this awful popinjay.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,438

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1800056816140718443?s=46

    From The Times

    Suella Braverman urges Conservatives to embrace Nigel Farage

    ‘We need to, in the future, to find some way to work together because there shouldn’t be big differences between us

    ‘I would welcome Nigel into the Conservative party. There’s not much difference really between him and many of the policies that we stand for

    ‘We are a broad church, we should be a welcoming party and an inclusive party and if someone is supportive of the party, that’s a precondition and they want Conservatives to get elected then they should be welcomed’


    Keep holding those Reform bets for crossover…I think we hopefully get D-Day gate and Farage Debate taking full effect in fieldwork from today/tomorrow

    Bearing in mind the vile racist hint given by Farage as to why he believes Sunak left D.Day celebrations early, if Suella were to look into the mirror she would realise she is not Farage's type.

    Why are Conservatives embracing this awful popinjay.
    Maybe she should join Labour and get fairly treated like Dian Abbott
This discussion has been closed.