@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
It is a bit like nepotism. Lots of people can do a job but only a chosen handful will be given the chance. I recently posted here a 1970s advert for school-leavers to work for banks, back in the days when bank manager was pillar of the community and an A-level job. Taken in aggregate, I doubt limiting opportunity in this way is good for business or Britain.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
Oh, the irony:
"Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s... ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:- Local housing for local people first. All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions. All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
Thinking 100k is an average salary is no different to the remainer lie that we lost 4% gdp when even where we were in the eu the last time our gdp increased by 4% was in 2000
Is this a riddle?
No its simple statement...our gdp didnt grow by 4% a year while we were in the eu since 2000.....the remainer lie is we lost 4% gdp somehow by leaving even though our gdp has continued rising. If it didnt rise by 4% while we were in the eu claiming it would have done is people like you just talking bollocks or as I would put it being a fucking lying piece of shit
I think you missed your last dose of thorazine
Pagan's initial post wasn't clear, but his clarification is quite easy to understand unless you're dull-witted or being deliberately obtuse for rip-roaringly comedic effect.
The second post was hilariously abusive and seemed to indicate I'd been talking about some 4% thing. I sort of assumed he was continuing a conversation he'd been having with someone else, and honestly that might still be the case idk. Quite why he decided I was a "fucking lying piece of shit" on the back of me asking "is this a riddle?" was way past my extremely limited capacities to understand. I assure you I was not being deliberately obtuse, so I guess that leaves the dull-witted option.
Well, he was abominably rude to you to call you a lying piece of shit, and actually you handled it in a very classy way, but I think I sort of blanked that part of his post out and just thought he'd explained his concept and you were still having a general giggle at his incoherence. Apologies.
No need for an apology. And I can take the abuse all day long... I just prefer to have actually earned it than it be given for free.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.
The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
To be clear, are you still forecasting a Tory victory (albeit in July rather than January, as you had insisted ad nauseam on here)
Sunak isn't helping me out here, but as Laura Kuenssberg keeps reminding us, 3 and a half weeks is a long time in politics.
So what’s your answer? What is your current prediction? I’m genuinely interested
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
"Yes, it's a bit strange I know. But you should see his Python!"
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
"Yes, it's a bit strange I know. But you should see his Python!"
Tonight's a Tonight's accommodation. Cheap, nice set menu. Just under 300 km cycled so far. Knackered.
Where are you cycling from and to?
Orleans to Nantes.
So, about 330km in total: how many days are you doing it in? 3? 4?
How are the bike lanes?
Just over 400 km including the faffing around in Calais, Paris, etc. Maximum days 70 km. Using Velo 6 mainly Bike lanes excellent, ranging from excellent tarmac to decent gravel paths.
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
Oh, the irony:
"Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s... ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:- Local housing for local people first. All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions. All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
Er... 'Local housing for local people first'? Nothing about new builds there.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
One of our best programmer in out team is frankly as mad as a box of frogs, he sings to us in teams chat......his code is however is top notch and fully tested and documented and he can explain it...just the rest of the time he sings
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
Yeah, that probably fails the "ability of developers to get along" criteria.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
It is a bit like nepotism. Lots of people can do a job but only a chosen handful will be given the chance. I recently posted here a 1970s advert for school-leavers to work for banks, back in the days when bank manager was pillar of the community and an A-level job. Taken in aggregate, I doubt limiting opportunity in this way is good for business or Britain.
I was working at the British Geological Survey back in the mid 80s when a new directive came down that all the specialists had to reapply for their own jobs and that preference would be for those with doctorates. One of the ladies working there had been in post for many years and had been one of the original developers of the use of X-ray techniques for studying clay mineralogy. She did not have a doctorate but was one of the leading experts in her field. She was put into the pool and failed to get retained for her original job.
I don't know what happened afterwards as my short term contract came to an end but I always remember the dispair amongst her colleagues that they were going to lose one of the real experts in their field because of an administrative decision based on the perceived value of qualificatins over experience.
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
Oh, the irony:
"Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s... ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:- Local housing for local people first. All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions. All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
Er... 'Local housing for local people first'? Nothing about new builds there.
You specifically quoted him saying he would achieve that by prioritising local access to New Builds.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
Yeah, that probably fails the "ability of developers to get along" criteria.
Our architects arent developers or part of the team and we all agree they dont know their ass from their elbow. The running joke now is we dont bother with the first or second ticket on something on jira and wait for the third when they actually make their mind up
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
I'm afraid so.
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
Yeah, that probably fails the "ability of developers to get along" criteria.
Our architects arent developers or part of the team and we all agree they dont know their ass from their elbow. The running joke now is we dont bother with the first or second ticket on something on jira and wait for the third when they actually make their mind up
Note are current architects have never done software jobs they are generalists
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
It is a bit like nepotism. Lots of people can do a job but only a chosen handful will be given the chance. I recently posted here a 1970s advert for school-leavers to work for banks, back in the days when bank manager was pillar of the community and an A-level job. Taken in aggregate, I doubt limiting opportunity in this way is good for business or Britain.
I was working at the British Geological Survey back in the mid 80s when a new directive came down that all the specialists had to reapply for their own jobs and that preference would be for those with doctorates. One of the ladies working there had been in post for many years and had been one of the original developers of the use of X-ray techniques for studying clay mineralogy. She did not have a doctorate but was one of the leading experts in her field. She was put into the pool and failed to get retained for her original job.
I don't know what happened afterwards as my short term contract came to an end but I always remember the dispair amongst her colleagues that they were going to lose one of the real experts in their field because of an administrative decision based on the perceived value of qualificatins over experience.
Why exactly should a Primary School teacher with a degree in English, Maths or Science take priority over someone who is basically literate and numerate, but is great with little kids? Or indeed one with a degree in Chinese? Who may or may not be adept with the little ones?
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
Oh, the irony:
"Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s... ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:- Local housing for local people first. All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions. All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
Er... 'Local housing for local people first'? Nothing about new builds there.
You specifically quoted him saying he would achieve that by prioritising local access to New Builds.
Read your own post.
I just quoted his own webpage. The bullet marks didn't come across but 'Local housing for local people first' is a standalone point. Read it yourself:
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
My favorite was a developer used his own web server for a simple API because "it was easier".
And when I say "own web server", I mean he'd coded a web server a decade earlier when things like WSGI weren't as ubiquitous as now.
After 18 months, we had a bunch of critical processes running on an unmaintained web server that only one person understood.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
My favorite was a developer used his own web server for a simple API because "it was easier".
And when I say "own web server", I mean he'd coded a web server a decade earlier when things like WSGI weren't as ubiquitous as now.
After 18 months, we had a bunch of critical processes running on an unmaintained web server that only one person understood.
When I started working as a coder a lot did that for job security...make it obscure and you cant sack me. They usually came a cropper because not even they could maintain their code base and it fell over
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
I agree. I have met too many senior engineers who simply cannot work with people.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
A good bunch on the whole, computer programmers. Diligent, honest, grounded.
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
My favorite was a developer used his own web server for a simple API because "it was easier".
And when I say "own web server", I mean he'd coded a web server a decade earlier when things like WSGI weren't as ubiquitous as now.
After 18 months, we had a bunch of critical processes running on an unmaintained web server that only one person understood.
When I started working as a coder a lot did that for job security...make it obscure and you cant sack me. They usually came a cropper because not even they could maintain their code base and it fell over
He came a cropper because he refused to check in the code for his web server because it was his IP he'd created before he started working here.
Eventually even senior management realized that being dependent on something that no one knew anything about was a massive risk.
Why exactly should a Primary School teacher with a degree in English, Maths or Science take priority over someone who is basically literate and numerate, but is great with little kids? Or indeed one with a degree in Chinese? Who may or may not be adept with the little ones?
I think the problem is that a degree is in part a good signal of general intelligence, whereas it's very hard to credibly signal "great with little kids".
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.
You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
I agree. I have met too many senior engineers who simply cannot work with people.
I got sacked once for refusing to work with people, in my case it was refusing to take part in the transfer of data from the home office because they insisted on sending personal details of vulnerable people via unencrypted email and when I refused to deal with that.....well
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
I don't watch TV really so I'd never heard of him
He is credited with introducing the 5 - 2 diet that helps to address pre diabetes in patients and indeed help patients to lose the weight to return to non diabetic
It is widely acclaimed and I believe he wrote a regular medical column in the daily mail
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
I've watched quite a few of his health programmes, mainly on BBC. Informative and entertaining, mainly based on sound medical science as far as I could tell. Always came across as a nice guy, inquisitive, self-effacing. I can see why he was popular with those who've seen his programmes.
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Why? Mosley did some excellent docs on medical matters, was a regular on the One Show and C4 and produced some well followed diet programmes.
I suspect the average BBC viewer is more interested in his sad passing than elections for an EU Parliament we no longer vote for and the resignation of an Israeli Cabinet Minister (though both were also covered in the News at 10)
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Why? Mosley did some excellent docs on medical matters, was a regular on the One Show and C4 and produced some well followed diet programmes.
I suspect the average BBC viewer is more interested in his sad passing than elections for an EU Parliament we no longer vote for and the resignation of an Israeli Cabinet Minister (though both were also covered in the News at 10)
That's the point. Thinking they are pandering to the Mail side of the audience. What happened to 'inform'?
No one is going to switch off because Mosley isn't the lead item. They are chasing phantom ratings.
Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims: Keep local people local! What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
"Nobody has any intention of building a wall."
I would have thought that a wall round Basildon would be a good idea. It would prevent innocent people straying there inadvertently.
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Sorry but Reeves has abandoned the change and it has been welcomed by the BMA among others
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
As if the election result was like that on polling day it would be the first time a Democrat candidate for President had won the election while losing the popular vote (albeit arguably JFK would have done in 1960 if not for dodgy votes being added for him by Mayor Daley in Chicago).
Would also be amusing if after all this Trump did actually win 50% of the popular vote and the highest GOP voteshare since Bush in 2004 yet STILL lost the electoral college to Biden
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
It is the Beeb once again trying to chase Daily Mail land.
He's a medical journalist who has also appeared a lot on TV.
This is apparently a bigger story than 100s of millions of europeans going to the polls and Macron calling elections.
Labour need to sort out BBC senior management and board because it no longer does its actual remit.
I am not defending the BBC but Mosley was a TV celeb who has just died in unusual circumstances. That would always grab the news and is, I suspect, a lot more interesting to 90% of the population than Euro elections.
This must be the first leadership election to take place during a general election.
The Tories must be trying to lose. I really do think now I am starting to consider that 150 seats might be too many.
Er... aren't you getting a bit ahead of yourself now. Or am I watching the world on some weird time delay?
Not getting complacent, just that Braverman is welcoming Farage in, in a clear sign she wants to take over after the loss and join with him. Which is batty.
I still have an inkling we could see a hung parliament but those fears have receded to a 10% chance.
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Why? Mosley did some excellent docs on medical matters, was a regular on the One Show and C4 and produced some well followed diet programmes.
I suspect the average BBC viewer is more interested in his sad passing than elections for an EU Parliament we no longer vote for and the resignation of an Israeli Cabinet Minister (though both were also covered in the News at 10)
Which is sad, and demonstrates how shallow and insular too many Brits now are. Lord Reith would not have approved.
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
I don't watch TV really so I'd never heard of him
He is credited with introducing the 5 - 2 diet that helps to address pre diabetes in patients and indeed help patients to lose the weight to return to non diabetic
It is widely acclaimed and I believe he wrote a regular medical column in the daily mail
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
It is the Beeb once again trying to chase Daily Mail land.
He's a medical journalist who has also appeared a lot on TV.
This is apparently a bigger story than 100s of millions of europeans going to the polls and Macron calling elections.
Labour need to sort out BBC senior management and board because it no longer does its actual remit.
The last EU Parliament elections in 2019 saw just 37% of British voters bother to vote, we couldn't care much about EU elections when in the EU and the vast majority of us certainly could not care less about them now we are no longer in the EU.
Macron called a mid term French legislative election, also I expect a yawn from the average British TV watchers sofa beyond political geeks like us.
Michael Mosley though I can see gogglebox viewers going, 'Oh, how sad, he did some really interesting documentaries and seemed such a nice guy.'
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
I get spammed by Google twice a month with stories from the Oswestry Announcer and such about his one simple tip for living to 95. We will know fairly soon how ironic this is.
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
It is the Beeb once again trying to chase Daily Mail land.
He's a medical journalist who has also appeared a lot on TV.
This is apparently a bigger story than 100s of millions of europeans going to the polls and Macron calling elections.
Labour need to sort out BBC senior management and board because it no longer does its actual remit.
It might be to you but he is a very important contributor to the health of the nation and in particular diabetics
For many he has helped and this is a big story - of course the EU and French developments will feature far longer and in more depth on the BBC following the Mosley story
This must be the first leadership election to take place during a general election.
The Tories must be trying to lose. I really do think now I am starting to consider that 150 seats might be too many.
Er... aren't you getting a bit ahead of yourself now. Or am I watching the world on some weird time delay?
Hard to tell, what do you think the date is? It's the 29th June where I am. The first Conservative leadership hustings is tomorrow. I hope it isn't overshadowed by the news of Farage's imminent wedding to Taylor Swift which really did take me by surprise. Meanwhile, King Harry has inserted himself into the election by publicly announcing he's refused Sunak's resignation as PM twice in two days. I think it's ill advised for him to have spoken about this, as it's clearly going to affect the Tories' chances of finishing 5th ahead of the Greens.
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Sorry but Reeves has abandoned the change and it has been welcomed by the BMA among others
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
I asked the Conservative Party press office to explain why Richard Holden was dodging selection questions by talking about Emily Thornberry instead
The response is remarkable
The robot is broken.
On the subject of Emily Thornberry good to see she admitted today their vat on school places will result in children having to be accommodated in state schools
@Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.
What is their incentive to do so?
If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.
Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here. Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's. On as little as less than £23k.
Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).
But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
It is a bit like nepotism. Lots of people can do a job but only a chosen handful will be given the chance. I recently posted here a 1970s advert for school-leavers to work for banks, back in the days when bank manager was pillar of the community and an A-level job. Taken in aggregate, I doubt limiting opportunity in this way is good for business or Britain.
However, looked at some ways, an A-Level then was equivalent to a degree now.
It's not that long ago that a meaningful number of people left school with no qualifications whatsoever. Skip school at Easter aged 16, no exams and walk into the entriest of entry level jobs. I was at school in the 1980s, and it still happened a bit. Fixing that by moving the leaving day to late June of GCSE year was one of the dying acts of the Major government. It only came into force for the class of 1998.
From that point of view, taking A-Levels said "committed enough and academic enough to study for a couple of years beyond compulsory education". The important bit wasn't so much the content as the signalling of ability and effort.
Now, the vast majority are in education until 18; everyone is educated more than they were a few decades ago. That's a good thing. But young people who do A-Levels and then stop now aren't the same people who did A-Levels and stopped then.
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Sorry but Reeves has abandoned the change and it has been welcomed by the BMA among others
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
This must be the first leadership election to take place during a general election.
The Tories must be trying to lose. I really do think now I am starting to consider that 150 seats might be too many.
It was happening on the quiet in 1997. It is a bit louder now, but heaven only knows what it will be like if the Conservative campaign continues to flounder.
emily m @maitlis · 1h Close ( French ) friend in Paris tonight tells me she’s not surprised … 🇫🇷 “Someone told me in paris 3 weeks ago macron will dissolve parliament to put bardella in power so bardella can really mess up in the next 2 years and they ll loose the presidential. That s a tactic…”
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
(£) What's the actual story?
They were to reinstate the tax free pension limit the conservatives abolished but now, apparently, they agree with the conservatives decision
Good for doctors and highly paid civil servants
Probably better to limit tax relief to the basic rate rather than bring back a lifetime limit.
Some government has to have the balls to do that eventually. Most people getting 40% tax relief on the way in will only be paying 0%/20% on the way out.
Why exactly should a Primary School teacher with a degree in English, Maths or Science take priority over someone who is basically literate and numerate, but is great with little kids? Or indeed one with a degree in Chinese? Who may or may not be adept with the little ones?
I think the problem is that a degree is in part a good signal of general intelligence, whereas it's very hard to credibly signal "great with little kids".
Yes. But you don't need general intelligence to work Primary. Nor Ks3 tbh. You need to be good with kids.
So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.
Am I the only person who'd never heard of him? Given the outpourings he must have been a lovely guy, but really?
I don't watch TV really so I'd never heard of him
He is credited with introducing the 5 - 2 diet that helps to address pre diabetes in patients and indeed help patients to lose the weight to return to non diabetic
It is widely acclaimed and I believe he wrote a regular medical column in the daily mail
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Sorry but Reeves has abandoned the change and it has been welcomed by the BMA among others
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
Struggling to see the problem here.
Just another u turn
Wheels are coming off Labour's campaign tonight, eh! ;-)
Why exactly should a Primary School teacher with a degree in English, Maths or Science take priority over someone who is basically literate and numerate, but is great with little kids? Or indeed one with a degree in Chinese? Who may or may not be adept with the little ones?
I think the problem is that a degree is in part a good signal of general intelligence, whereas it's very hard to credibly signal "great with little kids".
Yes. But you don't need general intelligence to work Primary. Nor Ks3 tbh. You need to be good with kids.
Yes, indeed you probably don't need a degree to teach secondary up to GCSE either, being able to connect with kids and keep them in order is probably more important.
You only really need a degree as a teacher to teach A Levels or IB
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
That's a huge stretch Big_G.
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Sorry but Reeves has abandoned the change and it has been welcomed by the BMA among others
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
Struggling to see the problem here.
Just another u turn
Wheels are coming off Labour's campaign tonight, eh! ;-)
Don't listen to Big G, he's just ardently campaigning for a Plaid Cymru victory.
Comments
(Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
*tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
FT headline
Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions
Can you trust anything they say ?
I don't know what happened afterwards as my short term contract came to an end but I always remember the dispair amongst her colleagues that they were going to lose one of the real experts in their field because of an administrative decision based on the perceived value of qualificatins over experience.
What's the actual story?
Read your own post.
Good for doctors and highly paid civil servants
Yet while Trump leads in the popular vote by a narrow 50% to 49% margin, Biden surprisingly now leads in the battleground states by an equally narrow 50% to 49%
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-biden-neck-and-neck-06-09-2024/
Or indeed one with a degree in Chinese? Who may or may not be adept with the little ones?
https://www.reformparty.uk/basildon-and-billericay-constituency
And when I say "own web server", I mean he'd coded a web server a decade earlier when things like WSGI weren't as ubiquitous as now.
After 18 months, we had a bunch of critical processes running on an unmaintained web server that only one person understood.
Indeed, for a moment I wondered if Farage had been saying something about Oswald Mosley.
Wilkes: 'That depends on whether I embrace your lordship's mistress or your principles.'
Embracing Farage would give them a nasty STI *before* seeing them obliterated...
As the article points out Labour said they intended to reintroduce the Lifetime Allowance "but had not come up with details of how the allowance, a complex piece of tax legislation, could be reinstated."
I know you are looking for a straw or two but really, this is not one.
Eventually even senior management realized that being dependent on something that no one knew anything about was a massive risk.
I prefer the term Software Engineer as it happens.
The Tories must be trying to lose. I really do think now I am starting to consider that 150 seats might be too many.
If you've heard of the 5:2 diet, or intermittent fasting in the last few years, it's almost certainly because of him.
He's not quite Brian Cox, but he's still one of the biggest science names on the BBC over the last couple of decades.
Given the nature of his death, and the search, I'm not surprised it's considered a big story.
It is widely acclaimed and I believe he wrote a regular medical column in the daily mail
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/what-52-diet
He's a medical journalist who has also appeared a lot on TV.
This is apparently a bigger story than 100s of millions of europeans going to the polls and Macron calling elections.
Labour need to sort out BBC senior management and board because it no longer does its actual remit.
I suspect the average BBC viewer is more interested in his sad passing than elections for an EU Parliament we no longer vote for and the resignation of an Israeli Cabinet Minister (though both were also covered in the News at 10)
Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
·
2h
Trump laying groundwork for pulling out of the debate.
https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1799889223677292975
No one is going to switch off because Mosley isn't the lead item. They are chasing phantom ratings.
It will not be reinstated by Labour and it is not in their manifesto to do so
Would also be amusing if after all this Trump did actually win 50% of the popular vote and the highest GOP voteshare since Bush in 2004 yet STILL lost the electoral college to Biden
https://x.com/harryjsisson/status/1799902111582613526
I asked the Conservative Party press office to explain why Richard Holden was dodging selection questions by talking about Emily Thornberry instead
The response is remarkable
The robot is broken.
I still have an inkling we could see a hung parliament but those fears have receded to a 10% chance.
Roy Taylor - newcastle medical professor - did all the work and wrote papers and books for years when no one else believed him.
Fellow academics literally refused to speak to him at conferences because they believed he was wrong.
He deserves the nobel prize frankly.
Macron called a mid term French legislative election, also I expect a yawn from the average British TV watchers sofa beyond political geeks like us.
Michael Mosley though I can see gogglebox viewers going, 'Oh, how sad, he did some really interesting documentaries and seemed such a nice guy.'
For many he has helped and this is a big story - of course the EU and French developments will feature far longer and in more depth on the BBC following the Mosley story
Meanwhile, King Harry has inserted himself into the election by publicly announcing he's refused Sunak's resignation as PM twice in two days. I think it's ill advised for him to have spoken about this, as it's clearly going to affect the Tories' chances of finishing 5th ahead of the Greens.
I tended to enjoy working with them.
AND punter. Credited with inventing the sandwich, to avoid leaving the gaming table but still eat a meal.
It's not that long ago that a meaningful number of people left school with no qualifications whatsoever. Skip school at Easter aged 16, no exams and walk into the entriest of entry level jobs. I was at school in the 1980s, and it still happened a bit. Fixing that by moving the leaving day to late June of GCSE year was one of the dying acts of the Major government. It only came into force for the class of 1998.
From that point of view, taking A-Levels said "committed enough and academic enough to study for a couple of years beyond compulsory education". The important bit wasn't so much the content as the signalling of ability and effort.
Now, the vast majority are in education until 18; everyone is educated more than they were a few decades ago. That's a good thing. But young people who do A-Levels and then stop now aren't the same people who did A-Levels and stopped then.
Thing is, they're all so mediocre.
@maitlis
·
1h
Close ( French ) friend in Paris tonight tells me she’s not surprised … 🇫🇷
“Someone told me in paris 3 weeks ago macron will dissolve parliament to put bardella in power so bardella can really mess up in the next 2 years and they ll loose the presidential.
That s a tactic…”
https://x.com/richardmarcj/status/1799810016465359099
You need to be good with kids.
Not sure why you seem to be so upset by him and the coverage of his sad death
Indeed abolish it altogether
You only really need a degree as a teacher to teach A Levels or IB