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A Portillo moment for a new generation? – politicalbetting.com

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    Nigelb said:

    Time to start avoiding artificial sweeteners.

    Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk
    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehae244/7683453

    Could there be a link between sweetened fitness supplements and cardiovascular issues in young athletes?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,745
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Don't people realise @Mexicanpete is a piss taking satirist par excellence?

    There's me thinking he was a Hispanic specialist in soil improvement.
    No, he's Dead-eyed Dick's sidekick

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821

    darkage said:

    Someone posted government data on actual incomes pre and post tax. It is quite fascinating. A 50k wage puts you in the top 16% of earners, £100k in the top 4%. What this seems to demonstrate to me is that the salary expectations of graduates as envisaged by the student loan system is completely disconnected from reality. To even service the interest payments on a 70k loan you would need to be in the top 10% of earners.

    Are we comparing apples with apples?

    How are earners defined? Do they include those on pensions, for example, or only those of working age from 16-65?

    Even if the latter in any society like ours you will have vast swathes of people earning 15k-30k in all sorts of semi-skilled/services jobs so I'd expect top-end graduate jobs to be a top segment of 20%.

    It does beg the question why we aim for 50% graduates, though.
    I don't think it's a coincidence that countries with more successful economies than Britain's have high rates of participation in tertiary education.

    I mean, Britain could continue to be a backward second-rate economy with low productivity if you really want, and deciding not to educate British children and instead importing the educated people the economy requires saves you some spending on the education budget, but it's not an approach that any other country with aspirations follows.

    Why is British culture so anti-education?
    I agree with you, but how do you move the balance of jobs in that direction?

    I'm not sure how it works if 50% go to university but only 20% get decent graduate jobs.
    Well I'd guess that it's partly the problem with British companies not investing. I've also said in the past that I think there's a problem with technical tertiary education not being as prestigious as academic tertiary education in Britain. So we might be encouraging people to get the wrong sort of education to some extent, or the wrong people.

    Also, in Ireland, if you had large numbers of graduates not finding work at the right level for their qualifications, they'd go and find work in Australia/Canada/US/Britain/etc that paid better and they were qualified for. I know Britain has a larger population than Ireland, and so there are more graduates looking for work, but why aren't they finding work in other Anglophone countries?
    Increasingly they are. Starting salaries for graduates are noticeably higher in USA etc.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ToryJim said:

    Knives out for Richard Holden

    Unsurprisingly. He is utterly useless and duplicitous.
    Seems that when Richard Holden kicked a sick fellow Tory MP out of his seat, for purposes of expropriating it - he hopes - for himself, he was borrowing Rishi Sunak's "thinking" cap.

    OR was it visa-versa?

    I once worked (briefly) for a state senator who'd been a political player in his district and at the state capital, also in the state capitol.

    Unfortunately he suffered serious head trauma in an accident which severely messed with his head, literally. Which was obvious to anyone who spoke to him for more than a couple minutes.

    Nevertheless, his constituents, including many who knew him personally and more who knew something about his condition, re-elected him to another term. Because they knew the guy, and considered him one of them, and most were ok with his politics (conservative labor Democrat). He also had local phone books, in which he underlined and annotated numbers of the MANY local voters he'd called, generally for short "just touching base" conversations.

    Like I say, they re-elected him after his life-altering accident. But that was it; next time around, his family and staff convinced him to hang it up. But since being in the legislature was a very important part of that life, he got an appointment as one of the deputy Sargent-at-Arms, so he still got to hang out at the legislature.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Farooq said:

    DM_Andy said:

    After the Councillor Nelson stuff yesterday, the Tory candidate for Southend East and Rochford decided to post about coconuts.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1799856905478619239

    I missed the context, why are they talking about coconuts? (I know about the racist trope in general ofc)
    Haran posted a picture of himself at a coconut shy at a local fayre.
    https://x.com/Gavin_Haran/status/1799504507090415956/photo/2
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    I dunno, Labour seem pretty keen to be in government.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,745

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
    When are the Olympics?

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209
    biggles said:

    Has Macron gone stark raving bonkers?

    I guess he reckons his government will collapse and thinks a quick collapse better than a drawn out one.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Good evening

    I do not pretend to understand who is who in European elections but seems the right are making gains, especially in Germany and France, and Macron has called an unexpected election

    I expect Farage to be all over this and it is not helpful to those worried about the right and his part in the UK

    Somewhat ironic if Farage is telling us to follow Europe.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    edited June 9
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    Actually, teachers even in the 1960s had to undergo *training to the equivalent of degree level or HNC, roughly, and do a diploma specifically in teaching. My father was one (ex-Navy), non-graduate.

    Edit: * in service, in part.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    FF43 said:

    biggles said:

    Has Macron gone stark raving bonkers?

    I guess he reckons his government will collapse and thinks a quick collapse better than a drawn out one.
    So the same thought process as Sunak
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    Nigelb said:

    Time to start avoiding artificial sweeteners.

    Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk
    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehae244/7683453

    Could there be a link between sweetened fitness supplements and cardiovascular issues in young athletes?
    Nah. Brexit, obvs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    geoffw said:

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
    When are the Olympics?

    26th July to the 11th August
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Ghedebrav said:

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    I dunno, Labour seem pretty keen to be in government.
    The public less so on their behalf. Reluctant enablers thereof
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    I'm firmly of the opinion teaching is an art not a science. Rather like drawing, you can be taught to be a little better, but fundamentally you either have it or you don't. Which is why the insistence, particularly nowadays, post-Gove on a subject specific degree, even at Primary is such a barrier.
    No problem at all with HLTA'S taking classes.
    My issue is the shocking level of pay differentiation for doing exactly the same job.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Nigelb said:

    Time to start avoiding artificial sweeteners.

    Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk
    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehae244/7683453

    I’ve read too many unpleasant things about them to keep them in my diet any more.

    The hardest thing will be Pepsi Max, which I’m weirdly fond of, but if I can kick booze I can kick owt. I’ve taken to chopping lemons and limes up into cold fizzy water and while it takes more effort it is obvs cheaper, almost certainly healthier and also hits the spot.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,745

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
    When are the Olympics?

    geoffw said:

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
    When are the Olympics?

    26th July to the 11th August
    There you have it - they all want it over before the denouement in Paris

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Farooq said:

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    Hanlon's modified razor: never ascribe to conspiracy that which can adequately be explained by incompetence
    Just because you're not paranoid it doesn't mean there's not an alien abduction on the grassy knoll.
    Remember that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,544
    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    At a previous job, for a prestigious multinational, I discovered that incoming CVs were filtered to 2.1 or 1st, Russell Group* or international equivalent - from a list.

    The filtering was done by a young lady with no degree - bottom end job….

    *Yes, I know.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,411
    edited June 9

    kle4 said:

    Matthew Goodwin ROFL. He is a moron.

    No context needed.
    I do not understand why people obsess about him to be honest

    He is a commentator from the right as far as I understand, but I do not read anything he publishes just the same as I ignore the hard left
    People obsess about Matt Goodwin because he's a respected political scientist, an academic, a Professor at the University of Kent, whose objective analysis of a range of political trends happen to have led him to advocate policies and politics that could on occasion make even Farage blush.

    In short: he uses his academic credentials to push, pretty fervently, a far-right agenda on immigration in particular.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    geoffw said:

    Everyone seems to want to be the feck outta government by early July.
    What's coming?
    I'm suspicious

    August
    When are the Olympics?

    Same answer
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    edited June 9

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    edited June 9

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    They’re going for the ten-pound pom vote…
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Point of order.
    Afrikaners tend not to have British citizenship.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Nigelb said:

    Time to start avoiding artificial sweeteners.

    Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk
    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehae244/7683453

    Could there be a link between sweetened fitness supplements and cardiovascular issues in young athletes?
    Tbh it would not surprise me in future decades if we look back appalled at the shit we let companies get away with putting in our food that they no doubt knew full well is bad, but hey - money. Same as with ciggies only obviously significantly further-reaching.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,554

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    edited June 9

    kle4 said:

    Matthew Goodwin ROFL. He is a moron.

    No context needed.
    I do not understand why people obsess about him to be honest

    He is a commentator from the right as far as I understand, but I do not read anything he publishes just the same as I ignore the hard left
    People obsess about Matt Goodwin because he's a respected political scientist, an academic, a Professor at the University of Kent, whose objective analysis of a range of political trends happen to have led him to advocate policies and politics that could on occasion make even Farage blush.

    In short: he uses his academic credentials to push, pretty fervently, a far-right agenda on immigration in particular.
    I understand that but he is entitled to express his views as is everyone who values free speech

    I utterly reject far right views, but will defend the right to express them and it is upto opponents to make the case against them, not to try to close down the debate

    And I would just add the same applies to those in Universities who express far left views
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    You are absolutely correct. One factor over the decades has been increasing tendency of employers, particular of larger organizations (and also some smaller ones) to use academic credentials as an "objective" criteria when evaluating resumes, or rather in may cases quickly weeding out candidates who do NOT meet the required thresold.

    Essentially copying the system employed by medieval guilds, as means of restricting trades & professions to "qualified" (and generally well-connected) entrants, barring those judged unsuitable (often for very biased reasons) AND last but NOT least, restricting the supply of the qualified in order to increase demand and with it income, status, etc.

    Young and not-so-young people are urged (by me anyway) to obtain such credentials when they have the opportunity. And governments, employers and philanthropy should help create educational opportunities, for the good of the individuals, families and communities affected.

    For the good of the order, as we say in USA as per "Robert's Rules of Order.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    DM_Andy said:

    After the Councillor Nelson stuff yesterday, the Tory candidate for Southend East and Rochford decided to post about coconuts.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1799856905478619239

    Is that for real?!? Utterly appalling if true. The candidate must surely be publicly disowned by the Tories?
    It's true, and the apology is if anything worse:
    https://x.com/Gavin_Haran/status/1799813166983172102
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    edited June 9
    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Point of order.
    Afrikaners tend not to have British citizenship.
    I didn't have the Dutch courage to use "white" as an adjective to describe South African UK. ex-pats. I didn't want to be a Boer.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    kle4 said:

    Matthew Goodwin ROFL. He is a moron.

    No context needed.
    I do not understand why people obsess about him to be honest

    He is a commentator from the right as far as I understand, but I do not read anything he publishes just the same as I ignore the hard left
    People obsess about Matt Goodwin because he's a respected political scientist, an academic, a Professor at the University of Kent, whose objective analysis of a range of political trends happen to have led him to advocate policies and politics that could on occasion make even Farage blush.

    In short: he uses his academic credentials to push, pretty fervently, a far-right agenda on immigration in particular.
    I understand that but he is entitled to express his views as is everyone who values free speech

    I utterly reject far right views, but will defend the right to express them and it is upto opponents to make the case against them, not to try to close down the debate
    I don't see anyone trying to close down debate or stopping him expressing his views. He merely incurs judgement as the price of such intervention.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,968

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Only one snag. Afrikaaners are prime Reform voters, surely?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    To be clear, are you still forecasting a Tory victory (albeit in July rather than January, as you had insisted ad nauseam on here)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    They’re going for the ten-pound pom vote…
    Exactly!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Point of order.
    Afrikaners tend not to have British citizenship.
    I didn't have the Dutch courage to use "white" as an adjective to describe South African UK. ex-pats. I didn't want to be a Boer.
    Just call them immigrants from the UK. Works well enough, surely.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    edited June 9

    kle4 said:

    Matthew Goodwin ROFL. He is a moron.

    No context needed.
    I do not understand why people obsess about him to be honest

    He is a commentator from the right as far as I understand, but I do not read anything he publishes just the same as I ignore the hard left
    People obsess about Matt Goodwin because he's a respected political scientist, an academic, a Professor at the University of Kent, whose objective analysis of a range of political trends happen to have led him to advocate policies and politics that could on occasion make even Farage blush.

    In short: he uses his academic credentials to push, pretty fervently, a far-right agenda on immigration in particular.
    Goodwin is just another iteration of the "Minford Paradigm"*.

    * Copyright Emily Maitlis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    The number of overseas registered UK voters peaked at over 250 000 in 2016 (driven by Brexit of course) but has dropped since to about 100 000. Of course some may wish to register for this GE, so it may spike up slightly, but hard to see by much.

    The change was to remove the 15 year limit, but surely those most likely and motivated to vote are those with more recent migration, the Sandpit or RCS rather than the £10 Poms from the 1960s.

    It's a daft change, but in terms of numbers is going to be a handful per constituency.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    FF43 said:

    biggles said:

    Has Macron gone stark raving bonkers?

    I guess he reckons his government will collapse and thinks a quick collapse better than a drawn out one.
    So the same thought process as Sunak
    It's a bit more complicated in France because the government is not the same as the presidency and the president controls the levers of power. Probably I should have said Macron expects to have to ditch his own party and thinks it better to do it now rather than dragging it out. But it is a one time shot, and a high risk one. Macron will have to work with whatever coalition transpires. He may be hoping the coalition won't include RN, le Pen's party.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    Electoral Calculus has it going Labour
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    Nigelb said:

    Time to start avoiding artificial sweeteners.

    Xylitol is prothrombotic and associated with cardiovascular risk
    https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehae244/7683453

    Could there be a link between sweetened fitness supplements and cardiovascular issues in young athletes?
    ... seriously, though, I doubt it. Sweeteners are so prevalent anyway. THere are many other potent things in supplements. Maybe even viruses in some cases: see this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/article/2024/jun/09/raw-milk-powdered-meat-smoothie-erewhon
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    OT fireworks! Not sure why.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Point of order.
    Afrikaners tend not to have British citizenship.
    I didn't have the Dutch courage to use "white" as an adjective to describe South African UK. ex-pats. I didn't want to be a Boer.
    We need a heart-veldt apology.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,411
    edited June 9

    kle4 said:

    Matthew Goodwin ROFL. He is a moron.

    No context needed.
    I do not understand why people obsess about him to be honest

    He is a commentator from the right as far as I understand, but I do not read anything he publishes just the same as I ignore the hard left
    People obsess about Matt Goodwin because he's a respected political scientist, an academic, a Professor at the University of Kent, whose objective analysis of a range of political trends happen to have led him to advocate policies and politics that could on occasion make even Farage blush.

    In short: he uses his academic credentials to push, pretty fervently, a far-right agenda on immigration in particular.
    I understand that but he is entitled to express his views as is everyone who values free speech

    I utterly reject far right views, but will defend the right to express them and it is upto opponents to make the case against them, not to try to close down the debate

    And I would just add the same applies to those in Universities who express far left views
    I'm not aware of anybody who doesn't think Goodwin is entitled to express his views. Indeed, his abilities as a self-publicist mean his views are scattered across a wide range of media, frequently.

    Though as a side note, Goodwin does think that anybody who disagrees with him is not worth listening to, because he's always right. He regards his opinions as facts.
    He has this in common with a handful of PB posters.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183
    I see Belgium have got in on the act:

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1799900826338754832

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    BREAKING: Belgium's prime minister resigns
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Although this measure was intended to help the blue team, it has been suggested expats are among the biggest losers from Brexit, so who knows?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,544

    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    Point of order.
    Afrikaners tend not to have British citizenship.
    I didn't have the Dutch courage to use "white" as an adjective to describe South African UK. ex-pats. I didn't want to be a Boer.
    Don’t worry, it’s ok.

    We get it. You need an ethnic group to hate. But you don’t want end up with the semi-semi-ex-football hooligans and Yarxley-Lennon. They don’t wash and you’re rightly worried about social stigma.

    Be careful though. You might like The Hate, but The Hate may take a liking to you… and then you’ll be on about the Rothschilds and the rest of the dreary clown fest.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    tlg86 said:

    I see Belgium have got in on the act:

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1799900826338754832

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    BREAKING: Belgium's prime minister resigns

    He needs something more dramatic than that. How about dissolving the country?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    edited June 9
    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

  • Matthew Goodwin would come out to bat for Hitler with polls if he could make a Twitter post about it and "own the libs"
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 806
    edited June 9

    tlg86 said:

    I see Belgium have got in on the act:

    https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1799900826338754832

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    BREAKING: Belgium's prime minister resigns

    He needs something more dramatic than that. How about dissolving the country?
    What country? ;)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,411
    edited June 9

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    The Reform candidate is here:
    https://www.reformparty.uk/basildon-and-billericay-constituency

    I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims:
    Keep local people local!
    What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    The number of overseas registered UK voters peaked at over 250 000 in 2016 (driven by Brexit of course) but has dropped since to about 100 000. Of course some may wish to register for this GE, so it may spike up slightly, but hard to see by much.

    The change was to remove the 15 year limit, but surely those most likely and motivated to vote are those with more recent migration, the Sandpit or RCS rather than the £10 Poms from the 1960s.

    It's a daft change, but in terms of numbers is going to be a handful per constituency.
    Our eldest qualifies despite having gone to New Zealand in 2003 and Vancouver in 2015

    He is with us and has no desire to vote here at all
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    Actually, teachers even in the 1960s had to undergo *training to the equivalent of degree level or HNC, roughly, and do a diploma specifically in teaching. My father was one (ex-Navy), non-graduate.

    Edit: * in service, in part.
    As I said a job where level of education actually is important, you wouldn't want some one with a gsce in maths teaching a level maths for example
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,031
    @SamCoatesSky
    💥💥💥💥

    One Conservative candidate just messages this for circulation:

    “Richard Holden is a disgrace to the Conservative Party. He’s put himself over candidates. He’s shown complete disdain for Party members. The only reason this fool won’t be associated with this disastrous election is because nobody believes anyone thinks he competent, capable or trusted enough to be involved in the day to day decision making of this campaign. It’s a running joke amongst candidates that they hope it’s a Labour gain in Basildon and Billericay.”
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    I had never heard of him until this week. But then I know plenty of people don't like football and that gets more prominence than it deserves.

    Odd, though. The 10 O'Clock News is supposed to have a bit more of an international focus so I'm surprised the EU elections and news from France isn't the lead story.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    The number of overseas registered UK voters peaked at over 250 000 in 2016 (driven by Brexit of course) but has dropped since to about 100 000. Of course some may wish to register for this GE, so it may spike up slightly, but hard to see by much.

    The change was to remove the 15 year limit, but surely those most likely and motivated to vote are those with more recent migration, the Sandpit or RCS rather than the £10 Poms from the 1960s.

    It's a daft change, but in terms of numbers is going to be a handful per constituency.
    My concern is that if after 15 years they can't remember which constituency they were last associated with, or their parents and grandparents before them a local Conservative Party agent could help with a suitable seat and even a proxy vote on their behalf. White supremacist having never set foot in the UK, no ID. Me, a Senior Citizen Oyster card before I can vote.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 806
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    After the Councillor Nelson stuff yesterday, the Tory candidate for Southend East and Rochford decided to post about coconuts.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1799856905478619239

    Is that for real?!? Utterly appalling if true. The candidate must surely be publicly disowned by the Tories?
    It's true, and the apology is if anything worse:
    https://x.com/Gavin_Haran/status/1799813166983172102
    Thing that's confusing me is this - the presence of coconuts in the homeland of the Tamils. Seems odd (to me anyway) that person of Tamil heritage would think of "coconut" as a racial slur or deploy it that way against an election opponent.

    Does that make any sense in this context?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,031
    @AliFortescue

    Is Rishi Sunak a fighter or a quitter?

    Big week ahead. The latest from the campaign trail from
    @serenabarksing

    https://x.com/AliFortescue/status/1799911410350366778
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    To be clear, are you still forecasting a Tory victory (albeit in July rather than January, as you had insisted ad nauseam on here)
    Sunak isn't helping me out here, but as Laura Kuenssberg keeps reminding us, 3 and a half weeks is a long time in politics.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    There won't be an EU to rejoin I fancy, the wheels are coming off
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    But will they get chance to prove themselves is the issue
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,281

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    They’re going for the ten-pound pom vote…
    Exactly!
    I'm willing to bet Reform has the 350-pound Pom vote sown up.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    Thirty years ago I moved around a lot with my job, one consequence of which is that my eldest son was actually born in Basildon, for which he will no doubt never forgive me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,544

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Some years back, the Saudis were having a spasm about immigration. They were demanding that only people with degrees could get a certain type of work visa.

    We had a contractor who was needed out there. Ex-BT, no degree.

    So we fixed the problem by buying a degree for him from one of those websites. My boss had no sense of humour and refused to pay the extra for a PhD.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    edited June 9
    tlg86 said:

    FFS. BBC values.

    News at 10 leads on Mosley.

    So hard to defend the Beeb anymore as it constantly fails in its actual remit.

    I had never heard of him until this week. But then I know plenty of people don't like football and that gets more prominence than it deserves.

    Odd, though. The 10 O'Clock News is supposed to have a bit more of an international focus so I'm surprised the EU elections and news from France isn't the lead story.
    Mosley is legitimately the biggest story, especially after all that time looking for him. Nothing much has happened in our election campaign, and the EU results won't be known yet. Not one person in a hundred could name the French prime minister so why would they care they might be electing a new one?

    There often is a problem with poor news judgement overnight and at weekends when the senior people work 9 to 5 but in this instance, it is moot.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    Exit polls from Italy have Meloni’s party on between 26 and 30%.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,477

    There won't be an EU to rejoin I fancy, the wheels are coming off

    If that comes to pass the EU will be the least of our worries.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,554
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Thinking 100k is an average salary is no different to the remainer lie that we lost 4% gdp when even where we were in the eu the last time our gdp increased by 4% was in 2000

    Is this a riddle?
    No its simple statement...our gdp didnt grow by 4% a year while we were in the eu since 2000.....the remainer lie is we lost 4% gdp somehow by leaving even though our gdp has continued rising. If it didnt rise by 4% while we were in the eu claiming it would have done is people like you just talking bollocks or as I would put it being a fucking lying piece of shit
    :lol:
    I think you missed your last dose of thorazine
    Pagan's initial post wasn't clear, but his clarification is quite easy to understand unless you're dull-witted or being deliberately obtuse for rip-roaringly comedic effect.
    The second post was hilariously abusive and seemed to indicate I'd been talking about some 4% thing. I sort of assumed he was continuing a conversation he'd been having with someone else, and honestly that might still be the case idk. Quite why he decided I was a "fucking lying piece of shit" on the back of me asking "is this a riddle?" was way past my extremely limited capacities to understand.
    I assure you I was not being deliberately obtuse, so I guess that leaves the dull-witted option.
    Well, he was abominably rude to you to call you a lying piece of shit, and actually you handled it in a very classy way, but I think I sort of blanked that part of his post out and just thought he'd explained his concept and you were still having a general giggle at his incoherence. Apologies.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Some years back, the Saudis were having a spasm about immigration. They were demanding that only people with degrees could get a certain type of work visa.

    We had a contractor who was needed out there. Ex-BT, no degree.

    So we fixed the problem by buying a degree for him from one of those websites. My boss had no sense of humour and refused to pay the extra for a PhD.
    Don't get me wrong here, I do not think education is in anyway worthless. I object mainly to the degreeification of jobs that really don;t need it and I think it costs companies a lot of talent and also keeps a lot of talent down that would otherwise be worthwhile.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,031
    @AllieHBNews

    Monday’s TIMES: “Tories must embrace Farage, says Braverman” #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://x.com/AllieHBNews/status/1799913094933606730
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    edited June 9

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    The Reform candidate is here:
    https://www.reformparty.uk/basildon-and-billericay-constituency

    I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims:
    Keep local people local!
    What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
    Oh, the irony:

    "Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s...
    ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:-
    Local housing for local people first.
    All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions.
    All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,062

    There won't be an EU to rejoin I fancy, the wheels are coming off

    British Eurosceptics have been saying that for decades. There’s nothing in these election results that takes any wheels off.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    edited June 9

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    It is a bit like nepotism. Lots of people can do a job but only a chosen handful will be given the chance. I recently posted here a 1970s advert for school-leavers to work for banks, back in the days when bank manager was pillar of the community and an A-level job. Taken in aggregate, I doubt limiting opportunity in this way is good for business or Britain.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
    One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    There won't be an EU to rejoin I fancy, the wheels are coming off

    If that comes to pass the EU will be the least of our worries.
    We live in interesting times
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    It's fine working from home...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,615

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    The Reform candidate is here:
    https://www.reformparty.uk/basildon-and-billericay-constituency

    I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims:
    Keep local people local!
    What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
    Oh, the irony:

    "Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s...
    ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:-
    Local housing for local people first.
    All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions.
    All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
    Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    It's fine working from home...
    Would it help if I was taylor swift?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
    One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
    Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 806
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    Have you used your daily picture yet?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    I'm afraid so.

    (Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    I’m guess Holly Valance turned down the offer?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    I'm afraid so.

    (Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
    It saves finding out how debuggers work.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    I just got an email from David Cameron.

    Hmm.

    Oh you tease. Come on, spill the beans.
    It was a video aimed at Conservatives Abroad for voting in the GE, which I presume can be linked to his role as foreign secretary.
    All 3.5 million of them. The Tories could win a very decent majority on the ex pat Tory votes alone
    Though usually just 100 000 or so actually vote, don't they?
    I do fear the other parties have missed a trick. Perhaps this is the plan Sunak keeps telling us about.
    You really have this view of the Tories as being a Machiavellian election winning machine don’t you? There’s plenty of evidence that the ex-pat vote won’t go Tory.

    The last person to carp so incessantly on TV about his ‘plan’ was Baldrick.
    Yes Mexican is tiresome. The sad fact is he is good poster when not droning on about how great the Tories are.
    You may think of me as the poor man's Boris Johnson, but on this I am deadly serious. You'll be crying in your beer when 3.5 million Afrikaaners swing the election. Why do you think the Tories changed the 15 years rule, voters ID and boundary changes? They are cheating barstewards.
    To be clear, are you still forecasting a Tory victory (albeit in July rather than January, as you had insisted ad nauseam on here)
    Sunak isn't helping me out here, but as Laura Kuenssberg keeps reminding us, 3 and a half weeks is a long time in politics.
    So what’s your answer? What is your current prediction? I’m genuinely interested
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    I'm afraid so.

    (Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
    I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 806
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
    One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
    Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
    This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.

    *tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    "Yes, it's a bit strange I know. But you should see his Python!"
    euw python.....
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,858
    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    Tonight's a
    Tonight's accommodation. Cheap, nice set menu. Just under 300 km cycled so far. Knackered.

    Where are you cycling from and to?
    Orleans to Nantes.
    So, about 330km in total: how many days are you doing it in? 3? 4?

    How are the bike lanes?
    Just over 400 km including the faffing around in Calais, Paris, etc. Maximum days 70 km. Using Velo 6 mainly Bike lanes excellent, ranging from excellent tarmac to decent gravel paths.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    edited June 9
    Another labour u turn

    FT headline

    Labour throws out proposal to bring back cap on tax - free pensions

    Can you trust anything they say ?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Everybody should leave Richard Holden alone. Assuming he wins his seat, it's more than sufficient punishment to know that he will, presumably, be obliged to have a home in Basildon or Billericay. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

    I don't think it's a dead cert that he will win the seat. If Reform have a good, local candidate (and I agree it's a big if), he looks in serious trouble.
    The Reform candidate is here:
    https://www.reformparty.uk/basildon-and-billericay-constituency

    I confess to being mystified by one of his "what can we do for the constituency" aims:
    Keep local people local!
    What on earth does he mean, I wonder? Do they have to stay in Basildon/Billericay for their holidays?
    Oh, the irony:

    "Born in London and moving to Essex in the early 80’s...
    ...I would like to ringfence the constituency in respect of:-
    Local housing for local people first.
    All new build rental stock to be offered to local people first no exceptions.
    All new build property to be offered at a discounted rate minimum 5% to local people who wish to buy."
    Not defending him as such but only ironic if he moved into a new build property when he arrived. Otherwise he would be unaffected by his proposals.
    Er... 'Local housing for local people first'? Nothing about new builds there.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    Careers with that kind of accessible track record are pretty distinctive; it would make sense. I suppose the question is what better way you can signal your abilities than university. CVs, interviews, probably do not tell you enough about personal resilience or even the mere ability to work on thinking problems for more than a few hours. And then there are things like financial resilience - which you can signal pretty well by completing a degree - I know they used to look at the cut of your suit in some jobs.
    One of the best developers I ever hired came via Bedford jail and a Northampton cult called The Jesus Army.
    Developers on the whole tend to be odd people and quite often the better they are the more neurodivergent they are and the more quirks they seem to have
    This is very much true, but it's also true that other developers need to maintain their code. So I am perfectly fine with "cannot give a powerpoint presentation" neurodivergent, possibly tolerant of "refuses to document anything"* neurodivergent, but "invents their own framework and says figure it out for yourself" neurodivergent is probably out. Although not necessarily. I got my own position by doing the latter.

    *tbf this is a general dev trait regardless of spectrum spatial positioning
    One of our best programmer in out team is frankly as mad as a box of frogs, he sings to us in teams chat......his code is however is top notch and fully tested and documented and he can explain it...just the rest of the time he sings
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    @Pagan2 quotes are borked but fair enough. I agree. However it is up to companies to rein in and reform their own HR departments.

    What is their incentive to do so?
    If they are missing out on cheap talent, that cannot easily go elsewhere then it isn't good business.
    How do you prove that to them when most companies that aren't advertising min wage jobs are...must have a degree in the advert.

    Hell I have applied for jobs in software engineering and been told that despite 30 years experience I am not qualified because no degree
    You'll be delighted to hear the Public Sector is leading the way here.
    Due to the shortage of teachers, classes are increasingly being covered (and increasingly permanently led) by non-graduate HLTA's.
    On as little as less than £23k.
    Though possibly a job where a higher level of education is relevant. Be clear here I am not saying degrees are necessarily worthless. I am merely saying there seems to be a lot of jobs that were quite happily done properly by people with o levels or a levels alone that suddenly require a degree and a load of student debt
    FWIW I will hire a software engineer based on their github/track record over their degree (or lack thereof).

    But my CEO will always have degree snobbery. And oxbridge snobbery, come to think of it. That will only last a short while until someone proves themselves however...
    I will almost always hire off personal recommendations, because the ability of developers to get along is much underrated.

    You can be the most amazing developer in the abstract, or even of an open source project where you are the sole cause, but if you have annoying habits that drive your colleagues crazy, then you're probably not going to be a net benefit to the team.
    You mean I always insist on programming naked is a negative?
    I'm afraid so.

    (Although most of the worst habits involve a refusal to adhere to testing standards, of single word git commit comments, and of littering code with commented out print statements.)
    I never leave comments in my code except about what an arsehole our architects are
    Yeah, that probably fails the "ability of developers to get along" criteria.
This discussion has been closed.