Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Being a convicted felon has consequences – politicalbetting.com

1678911

Comments

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited June 4
    Andy_JS said:

    Not going quietly....

    Hundreds of Labour members have called for the party to give them a say on their General Election candidate after Lloyd Russell-Moyle was removed as Brighton Kemptown MP.

    More than 200 people have signed a petition calling on the party’s National Executive Committee to give Kemp Town residents a say on who should replace Mr Russell-Moyle after he was suspended from the party over serious allegations made about him.

    It comes after the Labour Party announced that former Keir Starmer aide Chris Ward would be taking over the candidacy ahead of July 4.


    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24365659.lloyd-russell-moyle-hundreds-sign-labour-general-election-petition/

    Absolute silence from the local party since LRM's suspension. I was getting multiple campaigning emails a day - zilch in recent days. Not even an announcement that Chris Ward is our candidate. I suspect that there's as much anger at the Ward anointment as at the LRM suspension - if LRM is to go, they at least want a local candidate. Opposition parties aren't exactly capitalising on the chaos - we've had no leaflets from any other party. Essentially, the GE campaign in Kemptown is currently comatose.
    Is it possible the Greens could spring a surprise here, while simultaneously going down in support in Pavilion?
    No. Much of the seat is not fertile ground for the Greens - e.g. two large council estates, the coastal strip. They abandoned all hope here years ago.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this is a lot scarier than Lviv

    Err yeah, Odessa isn’t Lviv.

    Lviv is Russia’s favourite Ukranian city, Odessa is a strategically-important port city key to Ukraine’s export market, and the key reason for Ukraine’s efforts into the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet.
    Let’s see if I can cope. The immediate atmosphere is grim and frightening. And the signs of war are ubiquitous

    I’ve got two articles to write and I might write them really really really quickly
    Congratulations on becoming a war reporter, rather than the jolly flint-knapper hanging around on the periphery of the conflict collecting nice stories.
    Er, I have done war before. Held at gunpoint by Hezbollah as I was also bombed and shelled by Israel

    But it is always fucking scary
    Working for the flint knappers weekly sounds a bit risky for my liking.
    But he does get to write product reviews when he, er, bench tests his creations.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    A reminder that Torsten Bell is a Labour candidate this time around.

    UK faces £33bn hole in finances or return to austerity, thinktank says
    Labour and the Conservatives want to reduce national debt, but Resolution Foundation says promises ‘detached from reality’
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/04/uk-faces-33bn-hole-in-finances-or-return-to-austerity-thinktank-says

    This will be interesting. Torsten Bell is one to watch. The Resolution Foundation is on my (shortish) list of wonk outfits to take seriously. (Others include RUSI, IFS, IfG, Chatham House).

    On the whole this is not consistent with party political engagement as such, as this deals essentially with distortion, exaggeration, polemic and so on. The late and much missed Frank Field is, in a sense, an example. His brief turn as a minister ceased once it was clear that he meant what he said.

    Bell is obviously a lucky general. His inevitable book is due to be published on 13 June and has endorsements from all the right sort.
    Yes, I've long being a fan of their work.
    Their political slant is acknowledged, but they don't let it skew the numbers or analysis.

    It will be interesting to see if he makes a good MP, or not. He's certainly a capable guy.
    Wasn't he Ed Miliband's head of policy and who came up with the Ed Stone.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Paging Leon...

    Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html

    Quote from near the end of the article.

    "Whether the pandemic started on a lab bench or in a market stall, it is undeniable that U.S. federal funding helped to build an unprecedented collection of SARS-like viruses at the Wuhan institute, as well as contributing to research that enhanced them. Advocates and funders of the institute’s research, including Dr. Fauci, should cooperate with the investigation to help identify and close the loopholes that allowed such dangerous work to occur. The world must not continue to bear the intolerable risks of research with the potential to cause pandemics."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    Services disrupted as London hospitals hit by cyber-attack
    Attack is having a ‘major impact’ on Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS trust, and is understood to have also affected other hospitals

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/04/cyber-attack-london-hospitals

    Ransomware.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    File under “things you don’t understand until you go somewhere”

    In central Odessa all the businesses (and homes?) seem to be reliant on really noisy generators. Portable. I guess Putin has blown the power everywhere

    I just went to a wine shop and I asked the guy there when the power stops if it stops and he shrugged and said “any time”. They can suddenly stop in the day or at night long before the curfew. Then there is no power of course - but also no internet for credit card erc. So you need cash by candlelight?

    I don’t know if mobiles keep working. I guess I’m about to find out
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited June 4
    I have sourced an underground dive bar, the Gorih, which does mean arse gin-and-tonics. It has a few off duty soldiers and their girls laughing manically as they eat weird nuts and salami
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    Scott_xP said:

    Btw Sporting Index has just seen some heavy selling of Conservative seats.

    I sold Con seats on SPIN some time ago, and just bought LD on Spreadex
    Yes, I'm out of the LD market now. It seems like doubling up, and my trading position is looking good already.

    I think Farage's announcement was worth a dozen seats to them.

    looks like Davey may be a lucky General too.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    German unemployment has risen by more than expected in a blow to hopes that it is recovering from a downturn. There were another 25,000 people out of work in May, which was well ahead of Bloomberg expectations of a gain of 7,000. The Ifo Institute said in March that Germany will be the worst-performing rich economy in the world for the second year.

    Why are the German's being worst hit? Dependence on cheap Russian oil / gas?

    This is your regular reminder that Germany paid no less for natural gas than anyone else.

    The Germans are getting hammered because their two largest export industries - capital goods and cars - are both in the toilet.
    I thought there was a specific issue with the form of natural gas Germany uses compared to rest of Europe meaning they have been hit extra hard and also they structured both industrial and domestic to utilise it? And actually making stuff is a lot harder hit than providing services when price of oil / gas ramps up.
    No, it's just CH4. And remember, most (i.e. 70%+) of the gas that comes through Russian pipelines ends up in other countries than Germany.
    To be fair, LNG is nearly never pure CH4.

    Most gas power stations/generators will burn anything in LNG. Mostly without even the operators caring. The energy yield per m3 changes a little bit, though.

    Used to have fun modelling liquefaction and regas trains. With a bit of cunning, you can use the process to separate out some valuable stuff.
    Often at import terminals they have to ballast with nitrogen if the CV is too high to meet the pipeline spec.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Andy_JS said:

    Paging Leon...

    Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html

    Good to see the NYT is prepared to publish articles like this again.
    The problem is the group think was awful for too long. It was quite understandable early on, nobody knew anything. But year 2 and 3, it was still very much in place.

    It is interesting we are having this big inquiry into how badly government did. The media, zero self-reflectance. They were piss poor from understanding stats / science and outside a few, a uniform groupthink.
    Midwit idiots on pb like @Farooq and @bondegezou will STILL try and claim it came from the market. Their beliefs have gone beyond science and logic into religion. This is now an article of faith: it came from the market! Even if it is laughably stupid they believe it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this is a lot scarier than Lviv

    Err yeah, Odessa isn’t Lviv.

    Lviv is Russia’s favourite Ukranian city, Odessa is a strategically-important port city key to Ukraine’s export market, and the key reason for Ukraine’s efforts into the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet.
    Let’s see if I can cope. The immediate atmosphere is grim and frightening. And the signs of war are ubiquitous

    I’ve got two articles to write and I might write them really really really quickly
    Congratulations on becoming a war reporter, rather than the jolly flint-knapper hanging around on the periphery of the conflict collecting nice stories.
    Er, I have done war before. Held at gunpoint by Hezbollah as I was also bombed and shelled by Israel

    But it is always fucking scary
    Well in that case welcome back. Off to Kharkiv next?
    Now that would be dangerous.

    Odesa ought to be fine as long as you heed air raid warnings; no such possibility in Kharkiv - where your local B&Q equivalent (or anywhere else) can be hit anytime by a couple of glide bombs without warning.
    Have you been to Ukraine during the war?

    Your advice is kindly meant I am sure - and Thankyou. But unless you’ve been…
    No, obvs.
    But the difference between Odesa and Kharkiv is one of geography.

    I'm not downplaying the dangers of Odesa - a couple of months back a single attack killed twenty people, and air raids are almost daily, aren't they ?
    But Kharkiv is quite another matter as it's within reach of far more stuff, with far less (ie zero) warning.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Leon said:

    I have sourced an underground dive bar, the Gorih, which does mean arse gin-and-tonics. It has a few off duty soldiers and their girls laughing manically as they eat weird nuts and salami

    I read this as the translation of the bar name meaning “arse gin-and-tonics” and thought it sounded like a …. unique… place.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    Wow. That's extraordinary if true. Presumably Nigel thinks he has a lot to gain by wallowing in victimhood.
    She's denied it. https://x.com/emilyhewertson/status/1798005077799809207
    This is in Essex. Everyone looks like that.
    No they don’t. She’s genuinely hot
    I agree, she looks OK :lol:
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    There is basically nowhere for the most seat betting to go on smarkets... wow, labour 98%


    https://smarkets.com/event/41607302/politics/uk/next-uk-general-election/most-seats-by-party


  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
    The irony. Scotland play England in Barbados and it rains. Might as well have scheduled it for Fort William.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    @Peter_the_Punter you move the market fast

    Damn.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
    The irony. Scotland play England in Barbados and it rains. Might as well have scheduled it for Fort William.
    It rained in the Battle of Britain.

    Scotland then reigned in the Battle of Britain.

    Under Duckworth-Lewis, can England rein in the Battle of Britain?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited June 4

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    A reminder that Torsten Bell is a Labour candidate this time around.

    UK faces £33bn hole in finances or return to austerity, thinktank says
    Labour and the Conservatives want to reduce national debt, but Resolution Foundation says promises ‘detached from reality’
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/04/uk-faces-33bn-hole-in-finances-or-return-to-austerity-thinktank-says

    This will be interesting. Torsten Bell is one to watch. The Resolution Foundation is on my (shortish) list of wonk outfits to take seriously. (Others include RUSI, IFS, IfG, Chatham House).

    On the whole this is not consistent with party political engagement as such, as this deals essentially with distortion, exaggeration, polemic and so on. The late and much missed Frank Field is, in a sense, an example. His brief turn as a minister ceased once it was clear that he meant what he said.

    Bell is obviously a lucky general. His inevitable book is due to be published on 13 June and has endorsements from all the right sort.
    Yes, I've long being a fan of their work.
    Their political slant is acknowledged, but they don't let it skew the numbers or analysis.

    It will be interesting to see if he makes a good MP, or not. He's certainly a capable guy.
    Wasn't he Ed Miliband's head of policy and who came up with the Ed Stone.
    I'm a HUGE fan of that, too.
    Was it really his idea ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    You don't have to be a super-recogniser to see that they're not the same person.
    I thought they looked similar but she's very clearly denied it.

    Also, such a stunt would obviously be found out - even Farage is not stupid enough to attempt it.
    Oh he is stupid enough. Whether he did is a different matter
    Farage is not stupid

    pb we need a word for “mad ideas I willingly believe because they satisfy me emotionally”

    We have two examples on here tonight

    1. It came from the market
    2. Nigel Farage is stupid

    People WANT to believe this nonsense so they do. See also

    3. Elon musk is dumb as fuck
    4. Every move against Trump is justified and the democrats have been scrupulously honest in pursuing him

    Once these notions get a grip on you they are very hard to dislodge. Likewise on the right

    5. The vaccine is engineered to hurt us
    6. Jews Jews Jews Jews (the left also suffers from this, now)
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Cookie said:

    Survation MRP, 30,000 sample at 8 tonight also incoming. More data pr0n

    From recollection, Survation's MRP tends to give much lower Lib Dem seats and higher Labour seats. Including some rather strange outcomes in some seats (essentially almost every Lib Dem target seat sees its support collapse towards Labour under their model). But then they could have changed the modelling.

    It's interesting to see just how hugely the various MRP models vary amongst themselves. Personally, I'm betting on YouGov, but I suppose I would.

    I'm going to guess c. 90-100 Con seats, 470-480 Labour seats, 20-25 LD seats, 25-35 SNP seats.
    I'm going for:
    18 NI
    3 PC
    4 Others
    10 SNP
    50 LD
    Tewkesbury 34.69 33.27 17.58
    Torbay 31.88 34.39 18.26
    St Albans 22.74 31.16 31.56
    North Norfolk 34.09 32.91 17.69
    Newton Abbot 32.32 32.67 17.97
    Kingston and Surbiton 20.85 30.45 36.86
    Hazel Grove 22.62 29.96 26.89
    Guildford 26.68 27.93 29.32
    Epsom and Ewell 33.42 33.17 20.71
    Eastleigh 34.50 30.40 23.93
    Carshalton and Wallington 23.12 30.63 31.90
    Bath 19.66 32.72 36.54

    Lib Dem vote shares get smashed everywhere by their model.
    SNP on the other hand do really well almost everywhere (gotta go for dinner; can't give examples)
    That's a trifle hard to follow, which numbers are which party?
    Con first, Lab second, LD third each time.

    Sorry, had to cut and paste
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Leon said:

    I have sourced an underground dive bar, the Gorih, which does mean arse gin-and-tonics. It has a few off duty soldiers and their girls laughing manically as they eat weird nuts and salami

    Is "weird nuts and salami" an euphemism???
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this is a lot scarier than Lviv

    Err yeah, Odessa isn’t Lviv.

    Lviv is Russia’s favourite Ukranian city, Odessa is a strategically-important port city key to Ukraine’s export market, and the key reason for Ukraine’s efforts into the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet.
    Let’s see if I can cope. The immediate atmosphere is grim and frightening. And the signs of war are ubiquitous

    I’ve got two articles to write and I might write them really really really quickly
    Congratulations on becoming a war reporter, rather than the jolly flint-knapper hanging around on the periphery of the conflict collecting nice stories.
    Er, I have done war before. Held at gunpoint by Hezbollah as I was also bombed and shelled by Israel

    But it is always fucking scary
    Well in that case welcome back. Off to Kharkiv next?
    Now that would be dangerous.

    Odesa ought to be fine as long as you heed air raid warnings; no such possibility in Kharkiv - where your local B&Q equivalent (or anywhere else) can be hit anytime by a couple of glide bombs without warning.
    Have you been to Ukraine during the war?

    Your advice is kindly meant I am sure - and Thankyou. But unless you’ve been…
    No, obvs.
    But the difference between Odesa and Kharkiv is one of geography.

    I'm not downplaying the dangers of Odesa - a couple of months back a single attack killed twenty people, and air raids are almost daily, aren't they ?
    But Kharkiv is quite another matter as it's within reach of far more stuff, with far less (ie zero) warning.
    Indeed. Having now had a hefty gin I think I can hack Odessa. Kharkiv no fucking way. That’s seppuku

    OTOH I am drawn to risk and danger. This is what I am. I like it the same way some people like off piste skiing

    And I am sincerely grateful for your concern. It might get quite lonely and scary here in Odessa
    and PB will be a source of solace
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    German unemployment has risen by more than expected in a blow to hopes that it is recovering from a downturn. There were another 25,000 people out of work in May, which was well ahead of Bloomberg expectations of a gain of 7,000. The Ifo Institute said in March that Germany will be the worst-performing rich economy in the world for the second year.

    Why are the German's being worst hit? Dependence on cheap Russian oil / gas?

    This is your regular reminder that Germany paid no less for natural gas than anyone else.

    The Germans are getting hammered because their two largest export industries - capital goods and cars - are both in the toilet.
    I thought there was a specific issue with the form of natural gas Germany uses compared to rest of Europe meaning they have been hit extra hard and also they structured both industrial and domestic to utilise it? And actually making stuff is a lot harder hit than providing services when price of oil / gas ramps up.
    No, it's just CH4. And remember, most (i.e. 70%+) of the gas that comes through Russian pipelines ends up in other countries than Germany.
    To be fair, LNG is nearly never pure CH4.

    Most gas power stations/generators will burn anything in LNG. Mostly without even the operators caring. The energy yield per m3 changes a little bit, though.

    Used to have fun modelling liquefaction and regas trains. With a bit of cunning, you can use the process to separate out some valuable stuff.
    Most turbines will burn anything relatively flammable, with little modification depending on what today’s fuel happens to be. The skill is in the fuel selection for yield optimisation. There’s been plenty of plane flights running some weird fuel on one engine of four, and the difficult bit is actually setting up the experiment in the first place, with a small tank that can be isolated, and having the whole rig certified.
    Generators tend to have much wider margins than aviation. Quite often they are based on derated aviation designs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    edited June 4
    Best take on the milkshaking

    https://x.com/politicalap/status/1798014902843724159?s=61

    BTW great pub name. Moon and Starfish. Could be one of @TSE’s innuendoes !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    There is basically nowhere for the most seat betting to go on smarkets... wow, labour 98%


    https://smarkets.com/event/41607302/politics/uk/next-uk-general-election/most-seats-by-party


    Unless Rishi rips Starmer's head off tonight.

    Unlikely, I know - but imagine if we see the REAL Rishi Sunak, who has been hiding all his life, waiting for this moment to reveal himself as a ninja killer.

    Be a bloodbath in the betting markets...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Where's that bloke who wanted political betting on Political Betting.

    You don't get more political betting for your money than this post.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321

    @Peter_the_Punter you move the market fast

    Damn.

    Wasn't the only one, CR. Bookies know about PB. Still think it's value though. Ignore those Survation number Andy posted. They are plain wrong for Tewkesbury, if not elsewhere.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    And on SNP numbers:

    On 30th March, they had the SNP over 40% in 17 seats, and between 35% and 40% in 23 more.
    They were only below 30% in 4 seats in Scotland.

    I think unless there's either a significant methodology change or there was a HUGE drop in SNP vote between March and May, they should still be forecast 25+ seats in this MRP.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    German unemployment has risen by more than expected in a blow to hopes that it is recovering from a downturn. There were another 25,000 people out of work in May, which was well ahead of Bloomberg expectations of a gain of 7,000. The Ifo Institute said in March that Germany will be the worst-performing rich economy in the world for the second year.

    Why are the German's being worst hit? Dependence on cheap Russian oil / gas?

    This is your regular reminder that Germany paid no less for natural gas than anyone else.

    The Germans are getting hammered because their two largest export industries - capital goods and cars - are both in the toilet.
    I thought there was a specific issue with the form of natural gas Germany uses compared to rest of Europe meaning they have been hit extra hard and also they structured both industrial and domestic to utilise it? And actually making stuff is a lot harder hit than providing services when price of oil / gas ramps up.
    No, it's just CH4. And remember, most (i.e. 70%+) of the gas that comes through Russian pipelines ends up in other countries than Germany.
    To be fair, LNG is nearly never pure CH4.

    Most gas power stations/generators will burn anything in LNG. Mostly without even the operators caring. The energy yield per m3 changes a little bit, though.

    Used to have fun modelling liquefaction and regas trains. With a bit of cunning, you can use the process to separate out some valuable stuff.
    Often at import terminals they have to ballast with nitrogen if the CV is too high to meet the pipeline spec.
    Imagjne the joy joy when you do that and the NO2 emissions spike at the generator. That’ll make you friends in Germany. Not.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Andy_JS said:

    Paging Leon...

    Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html

    Good to see the NYT is prepared to publish articles like this again.
    The problem is the group think was awful for too long. It was quite understandable early on, nobody knew anything. But year 2 and 3, it was still very much in place.

    It is interesting we are having this big inquiry into how badly government did. The media, zero self-reflectance. They were piss poor from understanding stats / science and outside a few, a uniform groupthink.
    The covid inquiry is genuinely boring, unlike the PO one.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    You don't have to be a super-recogniser to see that they're not the same person.
    I thought they looked similar but she's very clearly denied it.

    Also, such a stunt would obviously be found out - even Farage is not stupid enough to attempt it.
    Oh he is stupid enough. Whether he did is a different matter
    Farage is not stupid

    pb we need a word for “mad ideas I willingly believe because they satisfy me emotionally”

    We have two examples on here tonight

    1. It came from the market
    2. Nigel Farage is stupid

    People WANT to believe this nonsense so they do. See also

    3. Elon musk is dumb as fuck
    4. Every move against Trump is justified and the democrats have been scrupulously honest in pursuing him

    Once these notions get a grip on you they are very hard to dislodge. Likewise on the right

    5. The vaccine is engineered to hurt us
    6. Jews Jews Jews Jews (the left also suffers from this, now)
    Does anyone seriously think Musk is “dumb”? I question your hero worship of the guy, he got lucky in innumerable ways others didn’t, but even on a basic “he can code” level he’s clearly not dumb. Ditto Farage, who obviously possesses a manipulative cunning.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Paging Leon...

    Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html

    I know. Saw it yesterday

    The NYT has always been a fierce advocate for wet
    Market zoonosis shit. I believe that article concludes the debate for anyone not insane. It came from the lab. Even the NYT admits it now. It has caused howls of anguish in the last redoubts of the lonely virologists still trying to persuade us about bat soup and pangolins

    In years to come we will be astonished that for several years a lot of people willingly disbelieved the screamingly obvious
    I've believed the lab leak to be by far the most likely scenario from relatively early. (As in "it seems an awfully big coincidence...")

    But that is an OPINION PIECE. It is not new information. It changes literally nothing.
    It’s a brilliant summary and I think extremely persuasive for the few people still in doubt. Alina Chan has been amazing throughout this - and zealously fair to both sides. She’s a diamond

    But that’s not my point. My point is that two years ago there is no way the NYT publishes this. Back then they were still claiming “lab leak” was a “racist conspiracy theory”

    That’s how far they have moved. The Overton window on this has now shifted to “ok sure it likely came from the lab what do we do now?”

    And that it fair. That is where we are now. And her conclusion is spot on. We will never have 100% proof but it is extremely plausible it came from a lab bioengineering hideous bat coronaviruses to make them more pathogenic. That is mad science. It must stop and we must hold to account those who approved this
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this is a lot scarier than Lviv

    Err yeah, Odessa isn’t Lviv.

    Lviv is Russia’s favourite Ukranian city, Odessa is a strategically-important port city key to Ukraine’s export market, and the key reason for Ukraine’s efforts into the sinking of the Black Sea Fleet.
    Let’s see if I can cope. The immediate atmosphere is grim and frightening. And the signs of war are ubiquitous

    I’ve got two articles to write and I might write them really really really quickly
    Congratulations on becoming a war reporter, rather than the jolly flint-knapper hanging around on the periphery of the conflict collecting nice stories.
    Er, I have done war before. Held at gunpoint by Hezbollah as I was also bombed and shelled by Israel

    But it is always fucking scary
    Well in that case welcome back. Off to Kharkiv next?
    Now that would be dangerous.

    Odesa ought to be fine as long as you heed air raid warnings; no such possibility in Kharkiv - where your local B&Q equivalent (or anywhere else) can be hit anytime by a couple of glide bombs without warning.
    Have you been to Ukraine during the war?

    Your advice is kindly meant I am sure - and Thankyou. But unless you’ve been…
    No, obvs.
    But the difference between Odesa and Kharkiv is one of geography.

    I'm not downplaying the dangers of Odesa - a couple of months back a single attack killed twenty people, and air raids are almost daily, aren't they ?
    But Kharkiv is quite another matter as it's within reach of far more stuff, with far less (ie zero) warning.
    Indeed. Having now had a hefty gin I think I can hack Odessa. Kharkiv no fucking way. That’s seppuku

    OTOH I am drawn to risk and danger. This is what I am. I like it the same way some people like off piste skiing

    And I am sincerely grateful for your concern. It might get quite lonely and scary here in Odessa
    and PB will be a source of solace
    I got caught in the middle of a communal riot in December 1992 after they pulled down the Ayodyha mosque. Since then, I was 18, I’ve been a pipe and slippers man.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    You don't have to be a super-recogniser to see that they're not the same person.
    I thought they looked similar but she's very clearly denied it.

    Also, such a stunt would obviously be found out - even Farage is not stupid enough to attempt it.
    Oh he is stupid enough. Whether he did is a different matter
    Farage is not stupid

    pb we need a word for “mad ideas I willingly believe because they satisfy me emotionally”

    We have two examples on here tonight

    1. It came from the market
    2. Nigel Farage is stupid

    People WANT to believe this nonsense so they do. See also

    3. Elon musk is dumb as fuck
    4. Every move against Trump is justified and the democrats have been scrupulously honest in pursuing him

    Once these notions get a grip on you they are very hard to dislodge. Likewise on the right

    5. The vaccine is engineered to hurt us
    6. Jews Jews Jews Jews (the left also suffers from this, now)
    Does anyone seriously think Musk is “dumb”? I question your hero worship of the guy, he got lucky in innumerable ways others didn’t, but even on a basic “he can code” level he’s clearly not dumb. Ditto Farage, who obviously possesses a manipulative cunning.
    They really really do. Its incredible. I’ve met people on TwiX - not obviously stupid - who will claim he is a literal moron barely able to tie his laces. It’s truly weird. Musk Derangement Syndrome
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    There is basically nowhere for the most seat betting to go on smarkets... wow, labour 98%


    https://smarkets.com/event/41607302/politics/uk/next-uk-general-election/most-seats-by-party


    Unless Rishi rips Starmer's head off tonight.

    Unlikely, I know - but imagine if we see the REAL Rishi Sunak, who has been hiding all his life, waiting for this moment to reveal himself as a ninja killer.

    Be a bloodbath in the betting markets...
    And in the TV studio from the sound of it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Jannik Sinner new world No.1 after Djokovich is out with injury.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    A reminder that Torsten Bell is a Labour candidate this time around.

    UK faces £33bn hole in finances or return to austerity, thinktank says
    Labour and the Conservatives want to reduce national debt, but Resolution Foundation says promises ‘detached from reality’
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/04/uk-faces-33bn-hole-in-finances-or-return-to-austerity-thinktank-says

    This will be interesting. Torsten Bell is one to watch. The Resolution Foundation is on my (shortish) list of wonk outfits to take seriously. (Others include RUSI, IFS, IfG, Chatham House).

    On the whole this is not consistent with party political engagement as such, as this deals essentially with distortion, exaggeration, polemic and so on. The late and much missed Frank Field is, in a sense, an example. His brief turn as a minister ceased once it was clear that he meant what he said.

    Bell is obviously a lucky general. His inevitable book is due to be published on 13 June and has endorsements from all the right sort.
    Yes, I've long being a fan of their work.
    Their political slant is acknowledged, but they don't let it skew the numbers or analysis.

    It will be interesting to see if he makes a good MP, or not. He's certainly a capable guy.
    Wasn't he Ed Miliband's head of policy and who came up with the Ed Stone.
    Yes he was. I hope he has no regrets.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    Wow. That's extraordinary if true. Presumably Nigel thinks he has a lot to gain by wallowing in victimhood.
    She's denied it. https://x.com/emilyhewertson/status/1798005077799809207
    This is in Essex. Everyone looks like that.
    Pink hoodie, Trackie bottoms, roots need doing.

    Like the Toon on a Saturday.
    You've spotted me on a night out then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    You don't have to be a super-recogniser to see that they're not the same person.
    I thought they looked similar but she's very clearly denied it.

    Also, such a stunt would obviously be found out - even Farage is not stupid enough to attempt it.
    Oh he is stupid enough. Whether he did is a different matter
    Farage is not stupid

    pb we need a word for “mad ideas I willingly believe because they satisfy me emotionally”

    We have two examples on here tonight

    1. It came from the market
    2. Nigel Farage is stupid

    People WANT to believe this nonsense so they do. See also

    3. Elon musk is dumb as fuck
    4. Every move against Trump is justified and the democrats have been scrupulously honest in pursuing him

    Once these notions get a grip on you they are very hard to dislodge. Likewise on the right

    5. The vaccine is engineered to hurt us
    6. Jews Jews Jews Jews (the left also suffers from this, now)
    Does anyone seriously think Musk is “dumb”? I question your hero worship of the guy, he got lucky in innumerable ways others didn’t, but even on a basic “he can code” level he’s clearly not dumb. Ditto Farage, who obviously possesses a manipulative cunning.
    They really really do. Its incredible. I’ve met people on TwiX - not obviously stupid - who will claim he is a literal moron barely able to tie his laces. It’s truly weird. Musk Derangement Syndrome
    I think the issue is we have trouble accepting that very smart people are perfectly capable of saying very dumb things.

    So if someone says something provably stupid on a matter of which they know nothing, we assume they must be dumb.

    Which is often true, but could be that someone is genuinely bright in some ways, despite being stunningly ignorant in others.

    The even bigger issue is the person themselves may think the same way. I am smart, therefore what I say cannot be comically stupid and ignorant.

    Oh, but it can.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Michael Crick on Labour selections: [VIDEO]

    https://x.com/PaulEmbery/status/1797760974453387447
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,577
    edited June 4
    Nigelb said:

    Jannik Sinner new world No.1 after Djokovich is out with injury.

    I guess another of those days when one realises he’s getting old, as he has no idea of the guy who just went #1 on a popular sport’s ranking list.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    So is it "Farage opponents use woman who resembles gf of Refukker to create false narrative of stage managed drink throwing"?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Michigan Advance - Nikki Snyder, 7 other congressional candidates deemed to have invalid petitions

    State Board of Education member Nikki Snyder is among eight congressional candidates who do not have enough valid petition signatures to appear on the August primary ballot. . . .

    The report on Snyder stated that the Republican candidate submitted 1,079 signatures toward the 1,000 required for inclusion on the congressional ballot. Of those, an initial review disqualified 24 signatures, most of them due to an invalid date by the signer. , , ,

    [Election Board] Staff then disqualified an additional 75 signatures for a variety of reasons, leaving Snyder with just 980, which was 20 less than required, making her petitions insufficient. . . .

    The congressional race most impacted by the bureau report was the 12th District, which saw three candidate petitions determined to be insufficient, including that of Democrat Ryan Foster, the only challenger for the nomination faced by incumbent U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Detroit). Foster’s 1,181 petition signatures were whittled down to 926 after staff review and challenges.

    Of the four Republicans seeking the nomination for the heavily Democratic district, two were also deemed to have insufficient valid petition signatures: Steven Elliott and Hassan Nehme. . . . Elliot’s report, meanwhile, said staff review found some [invalid] signatures were among 71 petition sheets that showed “clear indications of fraud.” . . .

    In the 10th District, two Democrats were found to have insufficient valid signatures: Anil Kumar, a member of the Wayne State Board of Governors, and Rhonda Powell. Staff found “clear indications of fraud” on at least 47 of Kumar’s petition sheets and thus he fell 50 valid signatures short of the 1,000 needed. . . .

    https://michiganadvance.com/2024/05/25/nikki-snyder-7-other-congressional-candidates-deemed-to-have-invalid-petitions/

    SSI - Personally regard the candidate who submitted insufficient and/or bogus signatures as a bunch of morons. Considering as how this was also a problem in recent elections. BTW, the "fraud" alleged by the Election Board was likely NOT by the candidate, but instead by cheap-jack consultants and/or the temps hired to collect signatures.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Foxy said:

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
    Are you still determined to waste your vote in Mid Leicestershire?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jannik Sinner new world No.1 after Djokovich is out with injury.

    I guess another of those days when one realises he’s getting old, as he has no idea of the guy who just went #1 on a popular sport’s ranking list.
    I know plenty of sinners, but none of them play tennis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Foxy said:

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
    Are you still determined to waste your vote in Mid Leicestershire?
    I am not voting Labour if that is what you mean.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 4
    Deltapoll pouring cold water on Farage's ambitions.

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797940221784244671

    "@BritainElects

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 25% (+2)
    LDEM: 10% (+1)
    REF: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-2)

    via @DeltapollUK, 03 Jun"
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    Deltapoll pouring cold water on Farage's ambitions.

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797940221784244671

    "@BritainElects

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 25% (+2)
    LDEM: 10% (+1)
    REF: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-2)

    via @DeltapollUK, 03 Jun"

    31 May to 3 Jun and out yesterday teatime so almost no Farage impact on it if any at all
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 4
    Foxy said:

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
    Wimbledon is probably the only seat in the country that could plausibly go Con, Lab or LD.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    The debate tonight is going to be really dull, isn’t it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4
    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    That piece on COVID isn't an article in the NYT, nor a column, nor an editorial. It's an op-ed, which means the newspaper is not saying we believe this to be true, but we believe this view deserves some attention.

    (For the record: From the beginning I have doubted that we would be able to be certain about the origins of COVID, without the cooperation of the ChiComs -- which we have not gotten, and are unlikely to get. I do think making Fauci a sort of Emmanuel Goldstein, as some do, is disgraceful.)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Crick on Times Radio saying Con (like Lab) have deliberately held back lots of selections in best seats until last minute so leadership can put in their preferred candidates.

    He thinks Con party could move back towards the centre in the next Parliament (ie fewer right wingers).

    Holden withdrew from a selection meeting at very last minute last night. Crick thinks he will get Basildon seat tomorrow night (41st safest Con seat).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Andy_JS said:

    Deltapoll pouring cold water on Farage's ambitions.

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797940221784244671

    "@BritainElects

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 25% (+2)
    LDEM: 10% (+1)
    REF: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-2)

    via @DeltapollUK, 03 Jun"

    That depends what his ambition is.

    I'm sure he'd like large numbers of seats and future influence.

    But 9-10% to help the Tories along to a huge loss and influence their recovery position? It's been an ambition of his for a long time.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    The debate tonight is going to be really dull, isn’t it?

    Something therapeutic for insomniacs, at least.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    That piece on COVID isn't an article in the NYT, nor a column, nor an editorial. It's an op-ed, which means the newspaper is not saying we believe this to be true, but we believe this view deserves some attention.

    (For the record: From the beginning I have doubted that we would be able to be certain about the origins of COVID, without the cooperation of the ChiComs -- which we have not gotten, and are unlikely to get. I do think making Fauci a sort of Emmanuel Goldstein, as some do, is disgraceful.)

    That distinction doesn't really exist in British newspapers. I've always been interested in it with regard to American newspapers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    The debate tonight is going to be really dull, isn’t it?

    Rishi could decide to overdo it to appear strong, like he did in the party leadership debates, but probably not.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Andy_JS said:

    Deltapoll pouring cold water on Farage's ambitions.

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797940221784244671

    "@BritainElects

    LAB: 48% (+3)
    CON: 25% (+2)
    LDEM: 10% (+1)
    REF: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-2)

    via @DeltapollUK, 03 Jun"

    31 May to 3 Jun and out yesterday teatime so almost no Farage impact on it if any at all
    Indeed, old poll alert.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    If Scotland don't bat further, here are England's targets based on the overs the game could be reduced to: In a five-over chase, the target would be 66, while they would need 77 if it were to be six overs.

    What a joke of a match that would be.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Ben Shimshon
    @BenShimshon

    Anyone who has run focus groups with voters will recognise the 'over clever' respondent who sees wheels within wheels in every announcement/development... 🧵

    https://x.com/BenShimshon/status/1797944446212059397
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    MikeL said:

    Crick on Times Radio saying Con (like Lab) have deliberately held back lots of selections in best seats until last minute so leadership can put in their preferred candidates.

    He thinks Con party could move back towards the centre in the next Parliament (ie fewer right wingers).

    Holden withdrew from a selection meeting at very last minute last night. Crick thinks he will get Basildon seat tomorrow night (41st safest Con seat).

    What on Earth has Basildon done to deserve Holden Dick?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4
    Is it just me, or has the excitement of having debates between the party leaders now totally gone. They were really big deals initially.

    Be interesting to see what the viewership numbers are.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Andy_JS said:

    That piece on COVID isn't an article in the NYT, nor a column, nor an editorial. It's an op-ed, which means the newspaper is not saying we believe this to be true, but we believe this view deserves some attention.

    (For the record: From the beginning I have doubted that we would be able to be certain about the origins of COVID, without the cooperation of the ChiComs -- which we have not gotten, and are unlikely to get. I do think making Fauci a sort of Emmanuel Goldstein, as some do, is disgraceful.)

    That distinction doesn't really exist in British newspapers. I've always been interested in it with regard to American newspapers.
    It does. There are plenty of columnists who fail to reflect the views of the paper they write for.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
    Wimbledon is probably the only seat in the country that could plausibly go Con, Lab or LD.
    You think it might go to a tie break? Or is that a load of balls?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    This tweet from Matthew Goodwin won't exactly change left-wingers' opinions of him.

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1798025212728070244
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4


    Ben Shimshon
    @BenShimshon

    Anyone who has run focus groups with voters will recognise the 'over clever' respondent who sees wheels within wheels in every announcement/development... 🧵

    https://x.com/BenShimshon/status/1797944446212059397

    "over clever" = thick as mince conspiracy theorist who spends too much time on twitter. Anybody saying Farage standing is a secret deal between Labour and Reform to get the Tories out is the same kind of people who believe in Jewish space lasers.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 4
    💥 Labour leads by 17 points in the first @focaldataHQ poll of the campaign.

    🔴 LAB: 43%
    🔵 CON: 26%
    🟣 RFM: 12%
    🟠 LDM: 9%
    🟢 GRN: 6%
    SNP 2%
    Others 1%

    30 to 31 May
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Paging Leon...

    Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html

    I know. Saw it yesterday

    The NYT has always been a fierce advocate for wet
    Market zoonosis shit. I believe that article concludes the debate for anyone not insane. It came from the lab. Even the NYT admits it now. It has caused howls of anguish in the last redoubts of the lonely virologists still trying to persuade us about bat soup and pangolins

    In years to come we will be astonished that for several years a lot of people willingly disbelieved the screamingly obvious
    I've believed the lab leak to be by far the most likely scenario from relatively early. (As in "it seems an awfully big coincidence...")

    But that is an OPINION PIECE. It is not new information. It changes literally nothing.
    It’s a brilliant summary and I think extremely persuasive for the few people still in doubt. Alina Chan has been amazing throughout this - and zealously fair to both sides. She’s a diamond

    But that’s not my point. My point is that two years ago there is no way the NYT publishes this. Back then they were still claiming “lab leak” was a “racist conspiracy theory”

    That’s how far they have moved. The Overton window on this has now shifted to “ok sure it likely came from the lab what do we do now?”

    And that it fair. That is where we are now. And her conclusion is spot on. We will never have 100% proof but it is extremely plausible it came from a lab bioengineering hideous bat coronaviruses to make them more pathogenic. That is mad science. It must stop and we must hold to account those who approved this
    And if that had been your original post, I would have given it a like.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    It seems Nigel getting a pint of beer thrown at him was staged

    https://x.com/GleannIucha/status/1798023290625417293

    Wow. That's extraordinary if true. Presumably Nigel thinks he has a lot to gain by wallowing in victimhood.
    She's denied it. https://x.com/emilyhewertson/status/1798005077799809207
    This is in Essex. Everyone looks like that.
    Pink hoodie, Trackie bottoms, roots need doing.

    Like the Toon on a Saturday.
    You've spotted me on a night out then.
    The Bigg Market always beckons.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    @Peter_the_Punter you move the market fast

    Damn.

    Wasn't the only one, CR. Bookies know about PB. Still think it's value though. Ignore those Survation number Andy posted. They are plain wrong for Tewkesbury, if not elsewhere.
    I agree.
    Posted (with the others) as examples of "Wait... what?" moments that I found repeatedly in there.
    Everyone will have their own preferences, but for me, and given how hugely different all the MRPs are, I tend to rate them:

    1 - YouGov
    2 - ElectoralCalculus
    3 - Survation
    ... with significant gaps between each.

    I may well be being unfair on Survation, of course, and may be eating my words later in any case if they get very different numbers this time around which deal with my incredulity at all those areas (but I think they'd need a total methodology change for that), but I'm going on my knowledge of a bunch of these seats plus my eyebrows raising at their model resulting in universal Lib Dem vote unclumping and SNP vote clump retention.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    So is it "Farage opponents use woman who resembles gf of Refukker to create false narrative of stage managed drink throwing"?

    Reform girl doppelgänger in mystery milkshake attack
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    I'm about to be back in NY for the first time in two years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Andy_JS said:

    This tweet from Matthew Goodwin won't exactly change left-wingers' opinions of him.

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1798025212728070244

    Not just left wingers. He knows what point he is making. He's just far too into his online following and the reaction he provokes, it has long since eclipsed any legitimate points he wants to make.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Betting Post*

    OK, I mentioned Tewkesbury this morning and said I would report back if I heard anything. Well, I just heard, and am now sure that the 7/1 available on the LDs with Ladbrokes and other bookies is indeed good value.

    The Conservative (Laurence Robertson) is 4/5, and Labour 11/8. That looked wrong to me and I have now spoken to the LD candidate and I am assured that he is currently running second. He thinks they are about 7% behind the favorite with Labour nowhere. YouGov MRP gives it 35C/27LD/22Lab which from my knowledge of the constituency feels kind of right, (maybe Lab a bit high but not a million miles out) and gives a decent bit of Labour vote to squeeze.

    I've taken the sevens for as much as Lads would allow me. Reform have not put up a candidate yet. Naturally the LDs are hoping they do. If I hear any more, I'll post again.

    Fwiw, neighbouring Cheltenham is an LD certainty, but at 1/7 I won't be bothering myself.


    Chatting to my brother last night. He reckons St Neots and Mid Cambs will be LD rather than Lab. Currently 3 I think, while my other brother in Wimbledon reckons the reverse with Lab over LD to take the seat.

    Not brilliant value at either, but I have a fiver on each now.
    Are you still determined to waste your vote in Mid Leicestershire?
    I am not voting Labour if that is what you mean.
    Labour or Tory the only contenders there. Or a wasted vote!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Sadly William Russell has left us. The first male Dr Who companion in a long and illustrious career.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jun/04/william-russell-obituary
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Nigelb said:

    A reminder that Torsten Bell is a Labour candidate this time around.

    UK faces £33bn hole in finances or return to austerity, thinktank says
    Labour and the Conservatives want to reduce national debt, but Resolution Foundation says promises ‘detached from reality’
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/04/uk-faces-33bn-hole-in-finances-or-return-to-austerity-thinktank-says

    Labour won't do austerity. So what taxes rise?
    Not a single mention of the £150bn given to the Bank of England to burn. They do say if you want to know who your boss is, find out who you're not allowed to criticise.*

    *I do realise that both myself and others have widely criticised the Treasury indemnified Bond-selloff but it is still bizarre that it isn't mentioned in a politics piece about an avowed £30bn shortfall in the public finances.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited June 4

    Is it just me, or has the excitement of having debates between the party leaders now totally gone. They were really big deals initially.

    Be interesting to see what the viewership numbers are.

    Debates are only really meaningful if you’re able to properly discuss and contest different viewpoints/arguments.

    Unfortunately politicians realised that doing so opened them to criticism/scrutiny, so now it’s pre-prepared soundbites and over-engineered moments.

    I don’t think any of the debates we have had since they started in 2010 have really shed any great light on the parties and their policies. That is proven when the most impactful moment of all the debates has simply been when Nick Clegg came across as nice and reasonable.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4
    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603


    Ben Shimshon
    @BenShimshon

    Anyone who has run focus groups with voters will recognise the 'over clever' respondent who sees wheels within wheels in every announcement/development... 🧵

    https://x.com/BenShimshon/status/1797944446212059397

    "over clever" = thick as mince conspiracy theorist who spends too much time on twitter. Anybody saying Farage standing is a secret deal between Labour and Reform to get the Tories out is the same kind of people who believe in Jewish space lasers.
    Carol Vorderman and Nigel Farage are obviously working together:

    Nigel Farage 'wants to destroy the Conservative Party'

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nigel-farage-wants-to-destroy-the-conservative-party-kemi-badenoch-tells-lbc/

    Carol Vorderman: "I want to destroy the Tories"

    https://x.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1795115461664813061
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Andy_JS said:

    This tweet from Matthew Goodwin won't exactly change left-wingers' opinions of him.

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1798025212728070244

    My opinion of you, a demonstrably intelligent and smart, affable guy, is why do you give this clown airtime by following him around? What on God’s green Earth do you see in him?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
    The irony. Scotland play England in Barbados and it rains. Might as well have scheduled it for Fort William.
    WHY is anyone surprised, that it rains in Barbados? Note that wiki says that June is start to the "wet season".
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited June 4

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Yes that actually seems somewhat unfair on the Scots, who were ahead of the game.




    Oh well.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549


    Ben Shimshon
    @BenShimshon

    Anyone who has run focus groups with voters will recognise the 'over clever' respondent who sees wheels within wheels in every announcement/development... 🧵

    https://x.com/BenShimshon/status/1797944446212059397

    "over clever" = thick as mince conspiracy theorist who spends too much time on twitter. Anybody saying Farage standing is a secret deal between Labour and Reform to get the Tories out is the same kind of people who believe in Jewish space lasers.
    Indeed. As we've seen, today's conspiracy theory is that milkshake/Farage incident was staged. A surprising number of anti-Farageists seem willing to entertain it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Yes that actually seems somewhat unfair on the Scots, who were ahead of the game.




    Oh well,
    I don't know if they get some DLS premium on their total, so England have to chase down a larger amount?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm about to be back in NY for the first time in two years.

    Doesn't quite provoke the same frisson as Leon boozing in Odessa.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
    The irony. Scotland play England in Barbados and it rains. Might as well have scheduled it for Fort William.
    WHY is anyone surprised, that it rains in Barbados? Note that wiki says that June is start to the "wet season".
    Tell that to the ICC…
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Taz said:

    Sadly William Russell has left us. The first male Dr Who companion in a long and illustrious career.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jun/04/william-russell-obituary

    Note that "Dr Who" reruns were a BIG hit on PBS in the USA in the 1990s (perhaps bit earlier). Don't know who Dr Who was back then, but one of the show's American fans was my own Daddy Dearest.

    Perhaps also worth noting, that during this period, it was commonplace to see & hear pleas on PBS, asking that Dr Who fans kindly honor their pledges to their local affiliate. Seems that significant percent would call and "pledge" to help boost Dr Who . . . then "forget" to actually cough up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 4
    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.

    I understand they want to widen participation, grow the game, get families involved etc. But they also need money and the big money is turning T20 into a world tour where players are signed to for example the SuperKings organisation, who then play in India, SA, USA, Middle East etc.

    They have already signalled they aren't interested in the Hundred by setting up the MLC that runs at exactly the same time and paying better. Jason Roy got paid more for 3 weeks in MLC and his England and Surrey contract combined.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Scotland vs England - A 10-over per side match will begin in 20 minutes.

    I think that is massive advantage for England. Scotland got a good start but you bat for the 20, now only have < 4 overs to really trash it. Where as England have 10 wickets to go ultra hard from ball 1, knowing you aren't going to lose all 10 in 10 overs.

    Yes that actually seems somewhat unfair on the Scots, who were ahead of the game.




    Oh well,
    I don't know if they get some DLS premium on their total, so England have to chase down a larger amount?
    That would seem fairer.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm about to be back in NY for the first time in two years.

    The first thing you notice is how many of those mini-skyscrapers have been built recently, the very narrow and thin ones.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812

    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.
    I'm wondering if the ideal format might be T15 or the Ninety, but like a good typical centrist, can't quite decide.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Taz said:

    Sadly William Russell has left us. The first male Dr Who companion in a long and illustrious career.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jun/04/william-russell-obituary

    That’s sad, didn’t quite make the century.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:

    Sadly William Russell has left us. The first male Dr Who companion in a long and illustrious career.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jun/04/william-russell-obituary

    Note that "Dr Who" reruns were a BIG hit on PBS in the USA in the 1990s (perhaps bit earlier). Don't know who Dr Who was back then, but one of the show's American fans was my own Daddy Dearest.

    Perhaps also worth noting, that during this period, it was commonplace to see & hear pleas on PBS, asking that Dr Who fans kindly honor their pledges to their local affiliate. Seems that significant percent would call and "pledge" to help boost Dr Who . . . then "forget" to actually cough up.
    In the early nineties the show was on hiatus. Sylvester McCoy having recently finished his run.

    It’s thanks to a few US stations we have some of the episodes in the archives we now have.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,577
    edited June 4

    DM_Andy said:

    This isn't doing the Barbados tourist board much good, people don't go to the Caribbean to be rained on.

    Not a good start to the tournament. A very dodgy pitch yesterday resulting in a sub 100 acore and today the rain sheet had a hole in it and let the water through onto the wicket.
    For the NYC part of the tournament, they imported special grass (non-smokeable for clarification) for the temporary pitch.

    Hopefully the also sprang for a decent tent?
    The irony. Scotland play England in Barbados and it rains. Might as well have scheduled it for Fort William.
    WHY is anyone surprised, that it rains in Barbados? Note that wiki says that June is start to the "wet season".
    Well yesterday’s revelation was that they couldn’t find 34,000 people in New York who wanted to pay to watch a cricket match staged 30 miles out of town.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.

    I understand they want to widen participation, grow the game, get families involved etc. But they also need money and the big money is turning T20 into a world tour where players are signed to the SuperKings, who then play in India, SA, USA, Middle East etc. They have already signalled they aren't interested in the Hundred by setting up the MLC that runs at exactly the same time.
    Yep it's all very silly. Also as a spectator I can't help but feel a bit shortchanged when I go to matches. Too fast for the vibe of cricket.
This discussion has been closed.