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RFK Jr’s ratings – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,221
edited June 8 in General
RFK Jr’s ratings – politicalbetting.com

Economist/YouGov: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., has become deeply unpopular with Democrats since 2023https://t.co/RoUxIp2JNt pic.twitter.com/ZLwtLHKDL0

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    First like Trump!
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,810
    Second like Trump!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,560
    Third like RFK Jr.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,011
    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    FPT:
    Good morning, everyone.

    Ladbrokes' maintenance has been extended from 7.30am to 8.30am, so we'll see how that goes.

    Considering Leclerc or Norris to do well in qualifying and the race.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095
    I expect in the end RFK Jr will draw about equally from Democrat and Republican voters. Though given the unpopularity of both Biden and Trump with the average US voter he could still get the highest third party candidate vote since Ross Perot
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Housing policy over the last 20 years is evidence of near total state incompetence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,011
    darkage said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Housing policy over the last 20 years is evidence of near total state incompetence.
    This was announced yesterday.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,482
    Breaking news: got my first election leaflet (well, postcard) of the January 2025 election through the door yesterday. My advice to all candidates and their canvassing teams is to check the constituency boundaries because I'm in the next constituency along.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538
    I'm going to drop out of this one, as I despise anti-vaxxers, and RFK Jr most of all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234
    Interesting article in today's Guardian estimating that a 1° increase in global temperature takes 12% off global GDP, fairly evenly spread to all economies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/economic-damage-climate-change-report

    Perhaps it isn't growth vs action on climate change at all, but rather the opposite.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,928
    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    The energy price cap has also ensured energy prices rise. And the Government was muttering about food price caps which would have done it to milk and potatoes too.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538
    Foxy said:

    Interesting article in today's Guardian estimating that a 1° increase in global temperature takes 12% off global GDP, fairly evenly spread to all economies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/economic-damage-climate-change-report

    Perhaps it isn't growth vs action on climate change at all, but rather the opposite.

    I'm naturally suspicious of such figures, which at the best are WAG's. But IMV the medium- and long-term economic opportunities from tackling climate change are greater than the costs of doing so. When you add in other advantages, such as cleaner air, it becomes even clearer-cut.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,228
    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    All of those are probably necessary but not sufficient to start to get house prices under control. The main fix for the housing market is to stop expanding the population by about the rate of house building. The only way to do this involves reducing net immigration to close to zero.

    My town has added 20% to its size in the last 5 years, with no additional infrastructure. Virtually none of those living in the new housing are from town - they are all people from elsewhere. All this has achieved is house prices flat-lining. We can't keep expanding housing at this rate indefinitely, especially without building the infrastructure to go with it; part of the fix has to be to control demand, and as that's almost entirely driven by immigration that means getting a lid on immigration.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    edited May 18

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Me! Me! I knew sir!!

    In fact I recall pointing this out on here just a few days ago.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    edited May 18
    Bore da - good morning

    I have little knowledge of US politics but really do not want Trump as POTUS

    What is it with Conservative, SNP, and Labour prime ministers and First Ministers who seem hooked on sleeze and alleged corruption

    Plaid Cymru seeking to oust Gething and corruscating about Labour's arrogance in Wales that they thing think they can do everything and anything they like without consequences

    https://news.sky.com/story/plaid-cymru-pulls-out-of-co-operation-agreement-with-welsh-labour-13137829
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    On topic Trumps lead has normally been slightly higher in the 5 way polls than the head to head. This suggests RFK has been hurting Biden more but it hasn’t been consistent and there are polls showing RFK hurting Trump more.

    I frankly wonder if RFK will still be there in November. What on earth does he think that he is achieving? The criteria for the debate have been set out this week. They are designed for him to fail them. If he doesn’t get to play that may well bring an end to it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,791
    DavidL said:

    On topic Trumps lead has normally been slightly higher in the 5 way polls than the head to head. This suggests RFK has been hurting Biden more but it hasn’t been consistent and there are polls showing RFK hurting Trump more.

    Your hardcore AV has nowhere else to go to but Wormbrain. DJT won't explicitly come out as AV though he probably should, politically.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234

    Foxy said:

    Interesting article in today's Guardian estimating that a 1° increase in global temperature takes 12% off global GDP, fairly evenly spread to all economies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/economic-damage-climate-change-report

    Perhaps it isn't growth vs action on climate change at all, but rather the opposite.

    I'm naturally suspicious of such figures, which at the best are WAG's. But IMV the medium- and long-term economic opportunities from tackling climate change are greater than the costs of doing so. When you add in other advantages, such as cleaner air, it becomes even clearer-cut.
    Yes, all projections are based on modelling assumptions. We are seeing economic effects though. Recently I have been following the drought in Malawi, Zambia and Zimbabwe where the rains failed at a critical phase of the maize season. Zambia's President has said that half of this staple crop in a country where many are small farmers has been destroyed. They are also having to have electricity shutdowns as 70% of Zambias power comes from hydroelectric plants and the reservoirs are too dry. They are now entering the dry season with the next rains due in November. A massive effect on their economy.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    All of those are probably necessary but not sufficient to start to get house prices under control. The main fix for the housing market is to stop expanding the population by about the rate of house building. The only way to do this involves reducing net immigration to close to zero.

    My town has added 20% to its size in the last 5 years, with no additional infrastructure. Virtually none of those living in the new housing are from town - they are all people from elsewhere. All this has achieved is house prices flat-lining. We can't keep expanding housing at this rate indefinitely, especially without building the infrastructure to go with it; part of the fix has to be to control demand, and as that's almost entirely driven by immigration that means getting a lid on immigration.

    The number of dwellings in England and Wales increased faster than both the population and the number of households from 2011 and 2021. The difference is even bigger in Scotland. So even building faster than pop growth isn't going to cut it.

    The housing crisis in Edinburgh, and English equivalents, is due to the disparity in economic growth between those cities and the rest of the country, with young people cramming into a few dense urban areas - exacerbated by the growth in the number of students fighting for space. Smart landlords have taken advantage.

    Ultimately there are enough houses going round at a UK level. We've just failed to make towns and rural areas attractive places to live or work.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    DavidL said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Me! Me! I knew sir!!

    In fact I recall pointing this out on here just a few days ago.
    As did I when I started my post yesterday with the sentence - "We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic Trumps lead has normally been slightly higher in the 5 way polls than the head to head. This suggests RFK has been hurting Biden more but it hasn’t been consistent and there are polls showing RFK hurting Trump more.

    Your hardcore AV has nowhere else to go to but Wormbrain. DJT won't explicitly come out as AV though he probably should, politically.
    You do wonder if the worm or the brain is in the cockpit. Is AV still a thing? Not sure it is a big enough issue for a meaningful number of voters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,951
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic Trumps lead has normally been slightly higher in the 5 way polls than the head to head. This suggests RFK has been hurting Biden more but it hasn’t been consistent and there are polls showing RFK hurting Trump more.

    Your hardcore AV has nowhere else to go to but Wormbrain. DJT won't explicitly come out as AV though he probably should, politically.
    Don't forget DJT was at the vanguard of medicating for COVID. Didn't he develop intravenous administration of Sodium Hypochlorite as a remedy for COVID?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,040

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic Trumps lead has normally been slightly higher in the 5 way polls than the head to head. This suggests RFK has been hurting Biden more but it hasn’t been consistent and there are polls showing RFK hurting Trump more.

    Your hardcore AV has nowhere else to go to but Wormbrain. DJT won't explicitly come out as AV though he probably should, politically.
    Don't forget DJT was at the vanguard of medicating for COVID. Didn't he develop intravenous administration of Sodium Hypochlorite as a remedy for COVID?
    Was it not sodium hypocrite?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    edited May 18
    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,483

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    True, but we have that media landscape because, overall, it's what it's what people pay attention to and pay money for.

    It's a free country, so there's probably not a lot to be done about that, but it is vexing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    edited May 18

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    There is a gigantic gap for the Tories to take advantage of.

    Go full Thatcher. Become the party of home ownership again. Appeal directly to everyone living in private rental accomodation or owning with a mortgage. Ignore the landlords.

    "Right to Buy" but extend it to the the private sector? That might be too far but messaging like that would get earners on side.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    It's not actually a bad policy - it's says we will allow local councils to do it. Local councils can then be quietly told - we think it's an insane idea but if you really want to...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234
    Eabhal said:

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    There is a gigantic gap for the Tories to take advantage of.

    Go full Thatcher. Become the party of home ownership again. Appeal directly to everyone living in private rental accomodation or owning with a mortgage. Ignore the landlords.

    "Right to Buy" but extend it to the the private sector? That might be too far but messaging like that would get earners on side.
    Hasn't the long term effect of RTB been to transfer housing stock from councils to BTL landlords, often Boomers using them as pension income?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    Mr. eek, even if that's a short term tactical advantage for Labour, it's still foolish. Politics should be about advocating good ideas and pragmatic policies. Promulgating idiocy reduces still further the space for discussing good ideas, and will promote the foolishness among some people, increasing the chances it actually comes about.

    See also Nicias[sp], who opposed the Sicilian expedition during the Peloponnesian War and whose argument was it would require huge manpower and resources. Instead of putting off the Athenians, they committed the huge resources, which they subsequently lost.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,791
    eek said:

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    It's not actually a bad policy - it's says we will allow local councils to do it. Local councils can then be quietly told - we think it's an insane idea but if you really want to...
    Plenty of people on here having a shockingly naive view of policy formulation; getting itchy fannies about whether something will "work" or not. Will people vote for it is the only consideration that matters.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    edited May 18
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    Sure, and you can get away with "build more houses and all the problems will go away" too. In Scotland it's obviously nonsense given our flat population yet severe housing crisis, but people see a supply and demand graph on Wikipedia and think they've struck gold.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,228
    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    All of those are probably necessary but not sufficient to start to get house prices under control. The main fix for the housing market is to stop expanding the population by about the rate of house building. The only way to do this involves reducing net immigration to close to zero.

    My town has added 20% to its size in the last 5 years, with no additional infrastructure. Virtually none of those living in the new housing are from town - they are all people from elsewhere. All this has achieved is house prices flat-lining. We can't keep expanding housing at this rate indefinitely, especially without building the infrastructure to go with it; part of the fix has to be to control demand, and as that's almost entirely driven by immigration that means getting a lid on immigration.

    The number of dwellings in England and Wales increased faster than both the population and the number of households from 2011 and 2021. The difference is even bigger in Scotland. So even building faster than pop growth isn't going to cut it.

    The housing crisis in Edinburgh, and English equivalents, is due to the disparity in economic growth between those cities and the rest of the country, with young people cramming into a few dense urban areas - exacerbated by the growth in the number of students fighting for space. Smart landlords have taken advantage.

    Ultimately there are enough houses going round at a UK level. We've just failed to make towns and rural areas attractive places to live or work.
    You keep quoting that statistic about households and building.

    Are you aware that “impromptu” HMO - sharing a property between multiple people, but forgetting to do any of the safety or legal stuff - is counted as one household?

    So the 12 or so people I saw living in a 4 bed house are counted as one household. For example.

    It’s a bit like that stat about the number of rooms built. Because they include en-suite bathrooms, utility rooms etc this is bullshitted into suggesting lots of bedrooms.

    Mind you, with a bit of ingenuity, you *could* put a bunk bed in en-suite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    There is a gigantic gap for the Tories to take advantage of.

    Go full Thatcher. Become the party of home ownership again. Appeal directly to everyone living in private rental accomodation or owning with a mortgage. Ignore the landlords.

    "Right to Buy" but extend it to the the private sector? That might be too far but messaging like that would get earners on side.
    Hasn't the long term effect of RTB been to transfer housing stock from councils to BTL landlords, often Boomers using them as pension income?
    I didn't say the policy would work ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,841

    Bore da - good morning

    I have little knowledge of US politics but really do not want Trump as POTUS

    What is it with Conservative, SNP, and Labour prime ministers and First Ministers who seem hooked on sleeze and alleged corruption

    Plaid Cymru seeking to oust Gething and corruscating about Labour's arrogance in Wales that they thing think they can do everything and anything they like without consequences

    https://news.sky.com/story/plaid-cymru-pulls-out-of-co-operation-agreement-with-welsh-labour-13137829

    They can. That's the whole problem.

    And with the industrial scale vote rigging the changes to the electoral system Labour have put through with the help of those dozy fuckers in Plaid that's going to get worse rather than better.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Eabhal said:

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    There is a gigantic gap for the Tories to take advantage of.

    Go full Thatcher. Become the party of home ownership again. Appeal directly to everyone living in private rental accomodation or owning with a mortgage. Ignore the landlords.

    "Right to Buy" but extend it to the the private sector? That might be too far but messaging like that would get earners on side.
    I know the Conservatives have acquired something of a reputation as a bunch of crooks, but are you really suggesting their flagship policy should be to sell off cheap something that they don't even own?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690

    Mr. eek, even if that's a short term tactical advantage for Labour, it's still foolish. Politics should be about advocating good ideas and pragmatic policies. Promulgating idiocy reduces still further the space for discussing good ideas, and will promote the foolishness among some people, increasing the chances it actually comes about.

    See also Nicias[sp], who opposed the Sicilian expedition during the Peloponnesian War and whose argument was it would require huge manpower and resources. Instead of putting off the Athenians, they committed the huge resources, which they subsequently lost.

    I am not even sure it is to Labour's advantage as the only councils likely to impose rent controls are most likely already Labour controlled and the policy will fail to the detriment of their tenant voters
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,841
    I have just spent a few minutes reading the reports from Leicestershire County Cricket Club.

    I would like to register my heartfelt thanks to the board of Lancashire CCC for their sterling work in relieving Gloucestershire of a dud coach so we could get a good one in.

    I would also like to offer my sympathies to all Lancashire supporters, who in true Benkenstein club fashion seem destined for Division Two next season having been genuine title contenders last year.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    All of those are probably necessary but not sufficient to start to get house prices under control. The main fix for the housing market is to stop expanding the population by about the rate of house building. The only way to do this involves reducing net immigration to close to zero.

    My town has added 20% to its size in the last 5 years, with no additional infrastructure. Virtually none of those living in the new housing are from town - they are all people from elsewhere. All this has achieved is house prices flat-lining. We can't keep expanding housing at this rate indefinitely, especially without building the infrastructure to go with it; part of the fix has to be to control demand, and as that's almost entirely driven by immigration that means getting a lid on immigration.

    The number of dwellings in England and Wales increased faster than both the population and the number of households from 2011 and 2021. The difference is even bigger in Scotland. So even building faster than pop growth isn't going to cut it.

    The housing crisis in Edinburgh, and English equivalents, is due to the disparity in economic growth between those cities and the rest of the country, with young people cramming into a few dense urban areas - exacerbated by the growth in the number of students fighting for space. Smart landlords have taken advantage.

    Ultimately there are enough houses going round at a UK level. We've just failed to make towns and rural areas attractive places to live or work.
    You keep quoting that statistic about households and building.

    Are you aware that “impromptu” HMO - sharing a property between multiple people, but forgetting to do any of the safety or legal stuff - is counted as one household?

    So the 12 or so people I saw living in a 4 bed house are counted as one household. For example.

    It’s a bit like that stat about the number of rooms built. Because they include en-suite bathrooms, utility rooms etc this is bullshitted into suggesting lots of bedrooms.

    Mind you, with a bit of ingenuity, you *could* put a bunk bed in en-suite.
    I'm quoting population too, which has also grown more slowly than dwellings.

    The number of net* spare bedrooms has also increased over the same period.

    (That's total spare bedrooms less total over-occupied bedrooms).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,482
    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,174
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    Mr. Eabhal, you may be right about rent controls being 'good' politics but that just highlights the flaws of having an incompetent media and politicians who prefer nice headlines with bad policies to policies that actually make sense.

    It's not actually a bad policy - it's says we will allow local councils to do it. Local councils can then be quietly told - we think it's an insane idea but if you really want to...
    Plenty of people on here having a shockingly naive view of policy formulation; getting itchy fannies about whether something will "work" or not. Will people vote for it is the only consideration that matters.
    Rishi Tories hitting what ever is the opposite of the sweet spot with policies that don't work and people won't vote for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    On the US election, using my Instagram index I think Biden is in trouble. Very big trouble. American young people seem to have very short memories and don't seem to realise at the moment that the alternative is Trump. Lots of people declaring they won't vote for Biden right now, to an alarming degree for the blue team.

    I have no idea how they're going to turn that around but they need a plan soon or America is sleepwalking into another 4 years of Trump, which is a disaster for all of us. While Biden might be shit, he is still a lot better than the alternative.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965

    Mr. eek, even if that's a short term tactical advantage for Labour, it's still foolish. Politics should be about advocating good ideas and pragmatic policies. Promulgating idiocy reduces still further the space for discussing good ideas, and will promote the foolishness among some people, increasing the chances it actually comes about.

    See also Nicias[sp], who opposed the Sicilian expedition during the Peloponnesian War and whose argument was it would require huge manpower and resources. Instead of putting off the Athenians, they committed the huge resources, which they subsequently lost.

    I am not even sure it is to Labour's advantage as the only councils likely to impose rent controls are most likely already Labour controlled and the policy will fail to the detriment of their tenant voters
    But not to the detriment of their vote share.

    Zero tenants are going to vote Conservative because they are concerned about the long-term distorting effect of rent controls.

    These people are living paycheck to paycheck. It's about sourcing the next 6 months. And the Greens are looking attractive...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    Commercial property investment is not the same as the private rented sector which only solution is millions more homes
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,841
    edited May 18

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    I think my answer would be, if the 'ostensible market rate' is above what people are willing to pay then it isn't the market rate.

    And any landlord leaving a property empty for that long because the price they're asking is too high is an idiot for not dropping said price.

    I'd wonder more about any flats above them - but I gather they're often let and managed and sometimes owned separately anyway.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,225

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    Well the on area where local government has most control is planning and they haven't exactly shown they can make responsible decisions on local planning, it's full NIMBY all the time.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,791
    Here's a long and interesting article on Johnson's miscarried gin palace.

    https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/yacht-design/national-flagship-yacht-design-competition

    I hadn't realised how advanced it was when Baldy Ben cancelled it in between brunch and a pre-lunch snack one day. Apparently, it was mostly the idea of one elderly obsessive who convinced Johnson to announce it then sank half a mil of his own cash into a proposal.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited May 18
    MaxPB said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
    There is nothing worse than an empty high street because landlords do not want to take the hit on their accounts of revealing the current real valuation of a property.

    and that is actually the point here today if I go into Town I will see a number of shops that have been empty for ages because the landlord has set a rent that keeps their book valuation in place. Were they to issue a new lease at the current market rate their assets would drop say 50% and they can't take the hit.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,993
    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
    There is nothing worse than an empty high street because landlords do not want to take the hit on their accounts of revealing the current real valuation of a property.

    and that is actually the point here today if I go into Town I will see a number of shops that have been empty for ages because the landlord has set a rent that keeps their book valuation in place. Were they to issue a new lease at the current market rate their assets would drop say 50% and they can't take the hit.
    Yup, and this is why it's an excellent policy. It forces the establishment of a new market rate on a way that is fair and commercially driven.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,483
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
    There ain't no housing crisis in Middlesbrough or Greenock. Quite a few other crises though...

    Maybe we should try and rebalance the country and housing market. Infrastructure investment weighted by the inverse of average hourly wages. We could call it... "Levelling up"?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
    Um - what's your definition of affordable - literally the only places where prices are affordable is places where people won't want to live because there is no work...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,483

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
    One caveat to that.

    Personally, I don't mind RTB, if only to break up the social rental monocultures of the 50s to 70s. But for the foreseeable future, it's got to be on a 1 out, 1 in basis- the receipts from selling a home air used to build another one.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    darkage said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Housing policy over the last 20 years is evidence of near total state incompetence.
    Aided and abetted by ZIRP.
  • Y'all thinking about the wrong FKjr. The one you should be watching is JFKjr, who is alive and well and secretly working with Trump to save the US from the global elite.
    It's on the internet, so it is fact.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
    One caveat to that.

    Personally, I don't mind RTB, if only to break up the social rental monocultures of the 50s to 70s. But for the foreseeable future, it's got to be on a 1 out, 1 in basis- the receipts from selling a home air used to build another one.
    One out, two in.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
    There is nothing worse than an empty high street because landlords do not want to take the hit on their accounts of revealing the current real valuation of a property.

    and that is actually the point here today if I go into Town I will see a number of shops that have been empty for ages because the landlord has set a rent that keeps their book valuation in place. Were they to issue a new lease at the current market rate their assets would drop say 50% and they can't take the hit.
    Yup, and this is why it's an excellent policy. It forces the establishment of a new market rate on a way that is fair and commercially driven.
    The town not far from me actually saw a few empty shops knocked down and turned into a car park.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
    5 - Ending leasehold and rip-off service charges would be a good start.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,816


    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62

    It already exists - its called Hull.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,483
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
    Um - what's your definition of affordable - literally the only places where prices are affordable is places where people won't want to live because there is no work...
    Fair point. Though it does show why national averages aren't the lens to use here. Heck, my street is a mixture of retired school secretaries who bought when houses were cheap, people like me who bought when Romford was a bit more expensive and City types currently paying a fortune for the same houses. What's affordable?

    But more generally, London's hinterland needs more homes, provincial cities need more and more interesting jobs so that their hinterlands work as places to commute from. And small remote towns need an idea to make them viable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
    Um - what's your definition of affordable - literally the only places where prices are affordable is places where people won't want to live because there is no work...
    Unemployment is very low, so I think that places where there is literally no work are very few. What there are is places where work is poorly paid and little prospect of career progression, and often very poor affordable public transport to places where there is work.

    Leicester has cheap housing despite a booming population and very good transport links. The problem is that much work is poorly paid.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,605
    I am glad you are referring to him as "RFK Jr". I have seen him mentioned as "RKJ" and then I get him mixed up with "JKR"..
  • The big house builders only want to build just enough houses that they can sell at the price they want. They don't give a feck about affordable housing or the housing crisis and to be fair, that's not their responsibility.
    The government should own and run its own affordable construction company.
    I get that there's no money for it, or the appetite to upset big business, but it's the only way sufficent houseswill ever be built.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,350
    OpenAI's employee NDA forbids them, for the rest of their lives from criticising their employer.
    https://x.com/JMannhart/status/1791532757736214668
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,483
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
    One caveat to that.

    Personally, I don't mind RTB, if only to break up the social rental monocultures of the 50s to 70s. But for the foreseeable future, it's got to be on a 1 out, 1 in basis- the receipts from selling a home are used to build another one.
    One out, two in.
    If the numbers stack up for that, splendid.

    Highlights the mess we have got ourselves in, though. If the receipts from selling a house are really enough to build two, building homes ought to be money for old rope, with enormous profit opportunities. And yet we've manoeuvred ourselves into a bit of the graph where it doesn't happen.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,816
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Setting the economics aside, rent controls are smart politics. Labour are at risk from losing some younger/poorer voters to the Greens, and only about 1/20 people are landlords (and likely cast-iron Tories anyway).

    The renting class have increased dramatically over the last 10 years, and the average age of a first time buyer is 34 - prime voters to catch now, doubly screwed by rents and interest rates.

    And while the SG policy on rent controls has failed, it's not like anyone is going to vote Conservative as a result. In fact, if I were still renting my instinct would be to vote Green for an even more dramatic (if economically illiterate) intervention on private rentals.

    Full disclosure: I am an Edinburgh landlord and very grateful to my tenant who, enjoying a rent freeze, had not burnt the place down yet.

    Yep, when you stop teaching economics in state schools you can get away with almost anything. The old aphorism of if you think education is expensive, try ignorance comes to mind.
    I think you are ignoring the second bit of the Eabhal's 3rd paragraph.

    Having a policy that is restricted and controlled (because the decision and plan rests with the local council) solves an awful lot of problems for Labour - it gives them a policy that looks good, removes a reason for a drift towards the Green Party ANS is hard to implement (because the central Government response can quietly be, don't do this it won't work because of XYZ).

    Now central Government can say it's up to local councils to implement and local councils can do nothing and shift the blame elsewhere.



    That's not governing the country, its absenting itself from the consequences of its decisions and I doubt oppositions will let Reeves away with it
    No, it is transferring power and decision making to local government.

    Not everything needs to be decided in Whitehall.
    On housing anything that reduces the availability of homes for rent should be a national policy, and not left to local politicians who will make the problem much worse by political dogma

    This is the sort of infantilisation of local communities which both main parties in this country have indulged in for decades and is one of the reasons we have such a weirdly centrally controlled state with hollowed out provinces.

    Just about every other developed country in Western Europe and the Anglosphere has several orders of magnitude more devolved power.
    And I think it's broadly accepted that one of the problems with UK housing is that there is reasonable affordable housing available, just not near London. But London is where anyone who aspires to being anyone wants to be, because that's where the power is. So the doom loop continues.

    It's really hard for politicians to give away power. Partly because power is fun to wield, but also because other people might stuff things up. And Conservatives have been as bad as that as anyone. So we have a situation where everything has to pass through SW1, with the problems we see.

    So if some places want to try it, why not let them, even if it's probably a mistake? Will of the people and all that.
    Um - what's your definition of affordable - literally the only places where prices are affordable is places where people won't want to live because there is no work...
    Unemployment is very low, so I think that places where there is literally no work are very few. What there are is places where work is poorly paid and little prospect of career progression, and often very poor affordable public transport to places where there is work.

    Leicester has cheap housing despite a booming population and very good transport links. The problem is that much work is poorly paid.
    Poorly paid work tends to migrate towards places with poor skillsets and/or are easily exploitable.

    People with the right skillset are generally doing well, especially in the cheaper parts of the country.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,228

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Whoever would have thought that rent controls don’t work. Apart from everywhere they’ve ever been tried before.

    April 1st was seven weeks ago, Labour. A sensible housing policy needs to involve building millions more houses, the developers need to both innovate in construction methods, and hire a lot more apprentice tradespeople, while government needs to prevent landbanking, penalise late deliveries, and make the planning process easier for smaller builders.
    Right. What is needed is something radical which will upset a load of people:
    1. We need new towns and cities. England isn't "full". Start off with Milton Keynes 2 in the flatlands at the eastern end of the M62
    2. We need to plan for the construction bonanza. We need to invest in making construction a desirable career and training people to do it
    3. Developers are welcome to participate, but they cannot be the driver. They land bank for profit and to bypass planning laws, and build what is most profitable rather than what people need
    4. LA/LHA properties are never for sale, sit outside the market so can have rents set at a level people can afford. That will help to reset a housing market where too many people can't afford to rent, never mind buy
    5. We need to make apartments desirable again. People need to live in town and city centres. How do you remove the stigma of apartment blocks, especially after Grenfell? Again its taking the developers out of making choices - no more "hi-flash" panels installed because they are cheap.
    One caveat to that.

    Personally, I don't mind RTB, if only to break up the social rental monocultures of the 50s to 70s. But for the foreseeable future, it's got to be on a 1 out, 1 in basis- the receipts from selling a home are used to build another one.
    One out, two in.
    If the numbers stack up for that, splendid.

    Highlights the mess we have got ourselves in, though. If the receipts from selling a house are really enough to build two, building homes ought to be money for old rope, with enormous profit opportunities. And yet we've manoeuvred ourselves into a bit of the graph where it doesn't happen.
    Because it’s about monopolies and slowing down building all the way.

    If you give all the development in an area to one or two big companies, then strangely, they will try and optimise the price. For them.

    For decades the price of TVs fell in real terms, year on year. Yet Sony didn’t stage a sellers strike - or even a slow down in production. Why?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    ydoethur said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    I think my answer would be, if the 'ostensible market rate' is above what people are willing to pay then it isn't the market rate.

    And any landlord leaving a property empty for that long because the price they're asking is too high is an idiot for not dropping said price.

    I'd wonder more about any flats above them - but I gather they're often let and managed and sometimes owned separately anyway.
    Labour should loosen the laws on squatting again

    Back in the day me and my mates squatted multiple big Georgian houses in Bloomsbury and Fitzrovia. This is in the mid 80s when they were often empty - incredibly. All we wanted was somewhere central and free to live - is that too much to ask? We didn’t want anything else like furniture. We had our mattresses and booze and drugs and girlfriends - ca suffit. And these places were empty and sometimes rotting

    Looking back I realise we were a vital part of the ecosystem. The dung beetles of property. We utilised what no one cared to use, we remedied a dysfunctional market and kept these areas alive with young people. Local pubs loved us

    And when we squatted some properties continuously the owners got all angsty and often decided it was better to do up the places, put them on the market, and then rent them to proper paying tenants. Better that than endless squatters

    So we revived entire districts. London should ennoble us

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,993
    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
    There is nothing worse than an empty high street because landlords do not want to take the hit on their accounts of revealing the current real valuation of a property.

    and that is actually the point here today if I go into Town I will see a number of shops that have been empty for ages because the landlord has set a rent that keeps their book valuation in place. Were they to issue a new lease at the current market rate their assets would drop say 50% and they can't take the hit.
    Yup, and this is why it's an excellent policy. It forces the establishment of a new market rate on a way that is fair and commercially driven.
    The town not far from me actually saw a few empty shops knocked down and turned into a car park.
    There is too much retail space. Yes I know I have just been in my shop doing today's advertising video, but in general especially in towns there is too much of it, in too poor a condition, with ludicrous rents demanded from absentee landlords.

    The solution?
    1. CPO and open. Buy it for a song and offer it up to new businesses for a nominal rent. Better still divide it up and create an indoor bazaar. Like Stockton-on-Tees have successfully done
    2. CPO and bulldoze. Tatty shops an eyesore? In the wrong place? Buy them, bulldoze them. Again, Stockton are doing this brilliantly, flattening an ugly 70s centre and turning it into a riverside park.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,174
    Leon said:

    I am getting so old I just bought a hand made laksa bowl in the ceramics quarter of old Grottaglie in Puglia - and took considerable pleasure in the act


    I used to do heroin and go to brothels

    You’ll be watching reruns of Keeping Up Appearances afore ye know it.

    Be honest, could Ay Eye have reproduced or added to any part of that experience?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,981
    Still can't believe this.

    "Post Office lawyer who oversaw Alan Bates case refusing to co-operate with inquiry
    It is understood that Jane MacLeod is living in New Zealand and the inquiry cannot compel her to give evidence while she is abroad"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/17/post-office-lawyer-who-oversaw-bates-case-wont-co-operate/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,993

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    Nope.

    There’s something else here.

    It’s very common for banks to put a clause in loans on commercial property, forbidding a drop in the rental price. So many landlords *can’t* drop the price to get a shop filled.

    If they legislating to break such clauses, then that would actually be getting the market to function again. Adam Smith spent quite a bit of time on the iniquity of price fixing, price floors etc.

    But don’t worry. If there was any danger of the policy actually doing the above, the Treasury will kill it.
    A lot of this property is owned by non-UK companies. Yes it sits as an asset on their balance sheet so they can't / won't rent for a viable price. So change the law to force the issue. Balance sheet lie or not, bank clause or not, if they legally have to rent it or get it CPO'd for a song, they will act.

    Why are we in fear of these giant investment houses? They aren't adding value to our economy. They're killing our economy. We have a regulated free market, so regulate them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    Taz said:

    darkage said:

    Shocked!!!

    Who knew that rent controls wouldn't work?

    Rents rise at fastest rate in UK under SNP cap

    Price controls branded an ‘abject failure’ after 16.5% surge


    The SNP’s rent control scheme has been branded an “abject failure” as new figures revealed that prices increased more rapidly in Scotland than any other nation or region in the UK.

    Analysis of Office for National Statistics (ONS) data reveals that since constraints came into force average private rent in Scotland rose by 16.5 per cent, from £813 to £947.

    In some areas, such as Lothian and Glasgow, the increases were more than 20 per cent.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s government introduced a 3 per cent cap on annual rent increases from September 6, 2022, and placed a pause on evictions as a response to the cost of living crisis while inflation soared.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-rent-control-an-abject-failure-as-prices-soar-jxnrc5fhr

    Housing policy over the last 20 years is evidence of near total state incompetence.
    Aided and abetted by ZIRP.
    Indeed. The sad thing is that the "last 20 years" takes us back to...2004. Do a bit of quick rounding and it comes out as "everything since the GFC in 2008 has not worked". That's Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak. None of them were stupid (they had different problems). But they either did not know how to fix the problems or did not have enough time to try.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    I think my answer would be, if the 'ostensible market rate' is above what people are willing to pay then it isn't the market rate.

    And any landlord leaving a property empty for that long because the price they're asking is too high is an idiot for not dropping said price.

    I'd wonder more about any flats above them - but I gather they're often let and managed and sometimes owned separately anyway.
    Labour should loosen the laws on squatting again

    Back in the day me and my mates squatted multiple big Georgian houses in Bloomsbury and Fitzrovia. This is in the mid 80s when they were often empty - incredibly. All we wanted was somewhere central and free to live - is that too much to ask? We didn’t want anything else like furniture. We had our mattresses and booze and drugs and girlfriends - ca suffit. And these places were empty and sometimes rotting

    Looking back I realise we were a vital part of the ecosystem. The dung beetles of property. We utilised what no one cared to use, we remedied a dysfunctional market and kept these areas alive with young people. Local pubs loved us

    And when we squatted some properties continuously the owners got all angsty and often decided it was better to do up the places, put them on the market, and then rent them to proper paying tenants. Better that than endless squatters

    So we revived entire districts. London should ennoble us

    As Art Garfunkel once sighed: "how lovely poverty looks in retrospect."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I am getting so old I just bought a hand made laksa bowl in the ceramics quarter of old Grottaglie in Puglia - and took considerable pleasure in the act


    I used to do heroin and go to brothels

    You’ll be watching reruns of Keeping Up Appearances afore ye know it.

    Be honest, could Ay Eye have reproduced or added to any part of that experience?
    No
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    Has anybody used otter.ai?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    It strikes me that the vast majority of PBers, who I assume are owner occupiers, are quick to denigrate any form of rent control, but also don't have any solutions to the problems faced by (young, in particular) renters. Down here on the south coast average private-sector rents are around 56% of take-home pay, rising to over 60% when bills are included. On average pay, this means life is a struggle. And, of course, many rental properties at the lower end are pretty abysmal and/or pokey.

    The obvious solution is more house-building, but this a) may not happen, and b) even if it does, will take many years to have an impact. The second solution is to move somewhere cheaper. But for all sorts of reasons - family, friends, work - many people can't, or don't want to, uproot. And of course, the third solution is to buy. But for most young renters down here, you're having a laugh.

    So, I'd be genuinely interested if anybody has any practical solutions to the short-term and mid-term rental crisis.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    viewcode said:

    Has anybody used otter.ai?

    Doug Seal probably has.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    Andy_JS said:

    Still can't believe this.

    "Post Office lawyer who oversaw Alan Bates case refusing to co-operate with inquiry
    It is understood that Jane MacLeod is living in New Zealand and the inquiry cannot compel her to give evidence while she is abroad"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/17/post-office-lawyer-who-oversaw-bates-case-wont-co-operate/

    In practical terms, how is she to be compelled?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,431
    edited May 18

    It strikes me that the vast majority of PBers, who I assume are owner occupiers, are quick to denigrate any form of rent control, but also don't have any solutions to the problems faced by (young, in particular) renters. Down here on the south coast average private-sector rents are around 56% of take-home pay, rising to over 60% when bills are included. On average pay, this means life is a struggle. And, of course, many rental properties at the lower end are pretty abysmal and/or pokey.

    The obvious solution is more house-building, but this a) may not happen, and b) even if it does, will take many years to have an impact. The second solution is to move somewhere cheaper. But for all sorts of reasons - family, friends, work - many people can't, or don't want to, uproot. And of course, the third solution is to buy. But for most young renters down here, you're having a laugh.

    So, I'd be genuinely interested if anybody has any practical solutions to the short-term and mid-term rental crisis.

    I don't I'm afraid. Other than the big things - build more houses, stop importing so many people - I don't have a smaller solution that would work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    This is an excellent policy. I hope Labour adopts it when they win.
    There is nothing worse than an empty high street because landlords do not want to take the hit on their accounts of revealing the current real valuation of a property.

    and that is actually the point here today if I go into Town I will see a number of shops that have been empty for ages because the landlord has set a rent that keeps their book valuation in place. Were they to issue a new lease at the current market rate their assets would drop say 50% and they can't take the hit.
    Yup, and this is why it's an excellent policy. It forces the establishment of a new market rate on a way that is fair and commercially driven.
    The town not far from me actually saw a few empty shops knocked down and turned into a car park.
    There is too much retail space. Yes I know I have just been in my shop doing today's advertising video, but in general especially in towns there is too much of it, in too poor a condition, with ludicrous rents demanded from absentee landlords.

    The solution?
    1. CPO and open. Buy it for a song and offer it up to new businesses for a nominal rent. Better still divide it up and create an indoor bazaar. Like Stockton-on-Tees have successfully done
    2. CPO and bulldoze. Tatty shops an eyesore? In the wrong place? Buy them, bulldoze them. Again, Stockton are doing this brilliantly, flattening an ugly 70s centre and turning it into a riverside park.
    Completely agree. The present system is so dysfunctional

    Let a thousand flowers bloom. Let anarchy rule. Give out empty shops for peppercorn rents to young start ups. Create new markets with food courts and little pop up bistros

    And if even that doesn’t work then level them and turn them into beautiful gardens

    The Tories can’t do any of this because they are wedded to and pathetically dependant on Big Developers and the Property Owning Pensioners

    Fuck all these people. Parasitic wankers. Make a country fit for young people, give young people a reason to want lots of babies so we don’t have to import still more people

    If we must have a Labour government I’d quite like it to be radical in areas like this
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Still can't believe this.

    "Post Office lawyer who oversaw Alan Bates case refusing to co-operate with inquiry
    It is understood that Jane MacLeod is living in New Zealand and the inquiry cannot compel her to give evidence while she is abroad"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/17/post-office-lawyer-who-oversaw-bates-case-wont-co-operate/

    In practical terms, how is she to be compelled?
    The Regiment

    (I can imagine a desperate Sunak considering this...)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    UK councils win power to auction off shops vacant for more than a year
    Landlords face hit to their rents from scheme that seeks to deal with blight of boarded-up high streets
    ...
    ... councils will be able to hold “high street rental auctions” with no reserve price for properties that have been left empty for more than a year. 

    Landlords of the auctioned properties will have to accept new tenants on leases of up to five years, even if they are offering annual payments far below the ostensible market rates.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f0ec7e49-9af1-490d-ac55-4a22775d3c0f

    Rent controls bad; forcing lower rents good is the new Conservative mantra.


    Nope.

    There’s something else here.

    It’s very common for banks to put a clause in loans on commercial property, forbidding a drop in the rental price. So many landlords *can’t* drop the price to get a shop filled.

    If they legislating to break such clauses, then that would actually be getting the market to function again. Adam Smith spent quite a bit of time on the iniquity of price fixing, price floors etc.

    But don’t worry. If there was any danger of the policy actually doing the above, the Treasury will kill it.
    A lot of this property is owned by non-UK companies. Yes it sits as an asset on their balance sheet so they can't / won't rent for a viable price. So change the law to force the issue. Balance sheet lie or not, bank clause or not, if they legally have to rent it or get it CPO'd for a song, they will act.

    Why are we in fear of these giant investment houses? They aren't adding value to our economy. They're killing our economy. We have a regulated free market, so regulate them.
    They aren’t even adding value to their investment - they are keeping a fictitious book value to avoid taking the hit - it’s why I’ve always avoided commercial property in my pension
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,992
    edited May 18
    Good morning, everyone, and thanks for the header @TSE .

    For Saturday morning here are a couple of very interesting little vids.

    1 - A pleasant video by a dad taking his 3 and 4 year old for a bike ride on cycles and in his trailer along the excellent-looking Stratford-upon-Avon Greenway.

    !5 minutes, and an excellent - local history describing in part - relaxed commentary. The path looks to be worth exploring.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT4Gjn8krSo

    2 - A 4 minute look at Seattle's first "Dutch-style" 'protected cycle and pedestrian' road junction, by a guy riding a bright yellow Brompton who also has a drone.

    It's amusing in its way - 'Dutch style' is the road designer version of "I look like (choose a film star)' on a dating profile, and it all says more about the values of the design system. Any city will never learn from other places and gets the detail wrong first time round - just like Liverpool at their recent one built in St Helens. Can't possibly learn from Manchester who have built several !

    In the USA, they always treat cycles like huge motor vehicles, so this one has SUV sized kerbs that make the already narrow cycle track about 2ft narrower (need to avoid pedal strike), full unnecessary sets of traffic lights where the cycleway meets the footway, and different stages to cross each road rather than green all round.

    Again, a really good commentary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT4Gjn8krSo
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,816

    It strikes me that the vast majority of PBers, who I assume are owner occupiers, are quick to denigrate any form of rent control, but also don't have any solutions to the problems faced by (young, in particular) renters. Down here on the south coast average private-sector rents are around 56% of take-home pay, rising to over 60% when bills are included. On average pay, this means life is a struggle. And, of course, many rental properties at the lower end are pretty abysmal and/or pokey.

    The obvious solution is more house-building, but this a) may not happen, and b) even if it does, will take many years to have an impact. The second solution is to move somewhere cheaper. But for all sorts of reasons - family, friends, work - many people can't, or don't want to, uproot. And of course, the third solution is to buy. But for most young renters down here, you're having a laugh.

    So, I'd be genuinely interested if anybody has any practical solutions to the short-term and mid-term rental crisis.

    Unfortunately circumstances happen to reduce the opportunities of some people.

    Just as many working class northerners struggled from 1975 onwards as the job opportunities reduced now many middle class southerners struggle as the housing opportunities reduce.

    Two generations on the working class northerners now have both job and housing opportunities.

    Perhaps many middle class southerners will have neither until after the AI and globalisation changes have finished.

    Grim I'm afraid and what it does mean is that southern teenagers will need to think seriously about their career and life plans.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,174
    On retail etc there needs to be more of this sort of thing.
    When we’re all enserfed by the machines and tolerated as (at best) a sort of harmless bacteria on the surface of their brave new world we’ll be living in a barter and make-do-and-mend society, so we might as well make a start now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/the-future-of-sustainable-entrepreneurship/article/2024/may/09/vintage-fashion-to-upcycling-five-great-reasons-to-visit-the-westfield-good-festival
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,228
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Still can't believe this.

    "Post Office lawyer who oversaw Alan Bates case refusing to co-operate with inquiry
    It is understood that Jane MacLeod is living in New Zealand and the inquiry cannot compel her to give evidence while she is abroad"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/17/post-office-lawyer-who-oversaw-bates-case-wont-co-operate/

    In practical terms, how is she to be compelled?
    Don't we have an extradition treat with NZ? Charge her with contempt of court or similar?
This discussion has been closed.