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Lock him up has majority support – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    TimS said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    It would nonetheless be nice if Starmer were to hold an olive branch out to Rosie.

    It doesn't seem that long ago that the chattering classes were all over Duffield and Graham Stringer being Tory bound.
    She does seem to be his least favourite Labourite. I'd be cauterizing every wound if I were him. Leave no avenue of discontent open
    Yes, not sure what it is about her that seems to get his goat. She’s been very critical, but so have several others. Perhaps the fact she’s not a Corbynite or part of a faction, so harder to dismiss.
    Maybe it's that she represents a type of labour that has appeal to some but he really doesn't want to steer into, so he keeps her isolated. It's a bit odd though tbf
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    edited May 13
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    Death cult? Moi??

    I just like to switch it up, given as I travel constantly and for a job. If you were a restaurant critic wouid you like to eat French classics and crème brulee every fucking night? No. You’d want challenging and interesting things. As the official Jay Rayner of Place I like to eat Food with Noom

    But here’s something lighter that might please your unrefined new world palate

    What is this and why is it here?




    Big fat clue: Dean Martin (real name: Dino Martini)
    Morecambe, with the statue of Eric Morcambe, Dean Martin’s inspiration. It’s looking surprisingly continental for coastal Lancashire.
    It’s this guy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domenico_Modugno

    Born here in Polignano-a-mare and best known for the immortal classic song “Volare” (which did famously well on 1958 Eurovision, was given a great cover by Dean Martin)

    Apparently Volare - which means “to fly” - was inspired by two things beloved of various
    pb-ers: the flying paintings of Chagall and these cliffs of Polignano, where divers leap “into the blue” - they fly

    Volare was also the chosen theme song my wife and I had during the first Covid lockdown. We had a rule that if the other person burst in singing VOLAREEE then you had to join in - CANTARAYYY - no matter WHAT you were doing - masturbating, sleeping, talking to your granny dying of Covid etc

    Livened it all up
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    Yes but whip removal is a new demand
    I think they will have to remove the whip to kill, or moderate anyway, the story. It is ammunition on the subject of competence and judgement, two areas where Starmer has a good record until this.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited May 13
    TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
    Was our Esther actually proposing to ban them, like some Europeans ban headscarves, or having a moan about them. Good luck trying to institute a ban, if that’s the plan.
    Doesn't sound like there's anything concrete:

    "I want a very simple but visible change to occur too – the lanyards worn to carry security passes shouldn’t be a random pick and mix, they should be a standard design reflecting that we are all members of the government delivering for the citizens of the UK."

    Otherwise it was mostly the usual - gay-bashing, fuck Europe/lefties/London/net zero, JK Rowling is very sensible, and did I mention I'm Northern?

    https://cps.org.uk/events/post/2024/speech-by-the-rt-hon-esther-mcvey-mp/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    VOLARRRAYYYYY OHHHHH-OH

    OH CANTARAYYYYYYY - OH OH OH OH!!!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    I assume all new hospitals (and parts of hospitals) are split into isolatable rooms, not the ghastly open bays? If not, why not? Nosocomial infection was rife in hospitals, and isolation rooms would have helped hugely.

    MRNA technology is more than just vaccines against pathogens, it’s likely to revolutionise cancer treatment too.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,605

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Unfortunately, thanks to its inevitable politicisation especially in the US, vaccine hesitancy has now shot up.

    You wouldn’t have had social media wankers boasting about never sleeping with vaccinated women before Covid. I think that’s now here to stay. Thankfully not so salient here as over there.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    Any large supermarket.
    Very useful for differentiating Covid from a more innocuous RTI before you pass it on to your co-workers. I've just had a family member off work for a week; it would have been highly inconvenient just now had I got it too.

    It's not paranoia, just common sense. I presume you're a man of leisure ?
    You were always a sad type when it came to that sort of thing. Why I was in Aldi only the other day (sadly the Chateau Let Trois Manoirs is sold out since it featured in the Times Weekend section) and no one was wearing a mask. No one. No one wears a mask at all anywhere let me rephrase. 0.01% of people wear masks and good luck to them.

    As Discworld points out, "Masks are to protect other people, not the wearer, and this is a courtesy to your fellow members."

    So 99.99% of people are not displaying this courtesy and the ones that are are, epidemiologically speaking, fucking idiots.
    And you the sarcy, slightly slow on the uptake one.
    Apparently.
    It's all the same. When was the last time you took a test.
    I took one on Christmas morning last year. Felt a bit rough, was due to go see my parents, tested positive, cancelled the trip so as not to give them a potentially debilitating respiratory virus. They had to make do with just a card.
    So what did you do before tests when you were due to see your parents and you felt a bit ropey.
    Well exactly. If you are ill with flu/covid/cold just don’t go to your parents.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
    Both of them?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,605
    TimS said:

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Unfortunately, thanks to its inevitable politicisation especially in the US, vaccine hesitancy has now shot up.

    You wouldn’t have had social media wankers boasting about never sleeping with vaccinated women before Covid. I think that’s now here to stay. Thankfully not so salient here as over there.
    That's not a very believable claim for them to make :wink:

    I'd be interested to see actual data on vaccination rates rather than the rantings of social media wankers of any variety.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    I was a member of the Labour Party in my younger years. But when I realised they weren’t really interested in my opinions, there weren’t lots of nice girls to meet and they just wanted me to go out and put leaflets through doors in the local hood I left.
    Why weren't they interested in your opinions?
    It was the mid eighties and the CLP I was a member of certainly seemed to want to be a talking shop of what working class people should want. My Grandad on my moms side was a working class Tory. For example he was seen as voting against his own interests rather than wanting to understand why. It was very unilateralist. I believed, still do, in a deterrent. I got the impression newer, younger, members were there to do the donkey work.
    I spent some time with Camden Labour Association in the middle 1980s. Imagine every inner London socialist stereotype and it was there. Many of the sensible ones had f***** off to the SDP and we were mid Miners 's strike. In Cardiff North the atmosphere was far less febrile.
    I was in Camden right at that time and I don’t remember the SDP types as all that sensible. But maybe all things are relative?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    Any large supermarket.
    Very useful for differentiating Covid from a more innocuous RTI before you pass it on to your co-workers. I've just had a family member off work for a week; it would have been highly inconvenient just now had I got it too.

    It's not paranoia, just common sense. I presume you're a man of leisure ?
    You were always a sad type when it came to that sort of thing. Why I was in Aldi only the other day (sadly the Chateau Let Trois Manoirs is sold out since it featured in the Times Weekend section) and no one was wearing a mask. No one. No one wears a mask at all anywhere let me rephrase. 0.01% of people wear masks and good luck to them.

    As Discworld points out, "Masks are to protect other people, not the wearer, and this is a courtesy to your fellow members."

    So 99.99% of people are not displaying this courtesy and the ones that are are, epidemiologically speaking, fucking idiots.
    And you the sarcy, slightly slow on the uptake one.
    Apparently.
    It's all the same. When was the last time you took a test.
    I took one on Christmas morning last year. Felt a bit rough, was due to go see my parents, tested positive, cancelled the trip so as not to give them a potentially debilitating respiratory virus. They had to make do with just a card.
    So what did you do before tests when you were due to see your parents and you felt a bit ropey.
    Well exactly. If you are ill with flu/covid/cold just don’t go to your parents.
    !
    Is good advice, although it can still cause family arguments. A few christmases ago my wife and I were both pretty ill. I was on the up, my wife probably at the peak on Christmas morning. We were meant to be having dinner with family. I went over to explain we wouldn’t be eating and I stayed for an hour or so before heading home to a house empty of food (we were expecting to be fed!). We picked up, and a few days later headed to the sales.
    Years later my dad still thought we just didn’t want to come…Families are funny.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
    Both of them?
    Groan,,..... You Tories are such bitter losers, aren't you?
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 225

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
    To be fair, there are only about a dozen of them. It's much easier to know eleven people than 400.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Dean Martin was NOT "Dino Martini"

    Dean Martin (born Dino Paul Crocetti; June 7, 1917 – December 25, 1995) was an American singer, actor, and comedian. . . .

    Born in Steubenville, Ohio, to Italian father Gaetano Alfonso Crocetti (1894–1967) and Italian-American mother Angela Crocetti (née Barra; 1897–1966). His father, who was a barber, was originally from Montesilvano, Pescara, and his mother was born December 18, 1897, in Fernwood, Ohio. Angela's father, Domenico Barra, emigrated from Monasterolo del Castello, Bergamo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Martin

    SSI - So DM was NOT a Martini . . . though he likely had WAY more than his share of martinis . . .

    Dean Martin - That's Amore
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnFlx2Lnr9Q
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    Yes she has. Sir Keir has been pretending they have a good relationship in interviews, pretty weird to lie so blatantly and not get pulled up
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Wait.

    You think publicans wear lanyards?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    While I don’t tend to wear red poppies or rainbow lanyards I do wear a red lanyard. So there’s that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    Yes she has. Sir Keir has been pretending they have a good relationship in interviews, pretty weird to lie so blatantly and not get pulled up
    I can't dispute that.

    Having made the statement re: Duffield one would have thought he would have made an effort to have a chat.
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 552
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
    To be fair, there are only about a dozen of them. It's much easier to know eleven people than 400.
    Oh my Giddy Aunt. Over 400 Labour MPs already. There must have been a lot more defections.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited May 13
    What’s Rosie Duffield going to do . Resign the whip in protest or defect to the Tories to likely lose her seat !

    On a different matter re today’s Belfast ruling . Either the UK government lawyers when advising on the Illegal Migration Act are useless and didn’t see a possible conflict with the GFA and WA or the government wants this fight .
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    TBF she has more than a point.
    I wonder what sort of effort Elphicke has been making to get to know and befriend her new party colleagues.

    If I were an MP who’d just crossed the floor I think I’d spend my first couple of weeks meeting fellow MPs for coffee and finding my way around the office politics. Particularly my geographical neighbours.

    Something I’ve always noticed with the Lib Dem MPs - they seem to know each other pretty well.
    To be fair, there are only about a dozen of them. It's much easier to know eleven people than 400.
    She could focus though. Meet her fellow Kent MP. Meet others who are in the Kent/Essex/East Sussex area, or who are on the same select committees.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081

    Interesting :

    Staying off FB/Insta just before the 2020 election had little to no effect on political views, neg opinions of opposing parties, or beliefs in election fraud claims. Those off FB were worse at answering news quizzes, but less likely to fall for misinfo.

    https://x.com/benryanwriter/status/1790094665775034857

    People aren't as gullible as those who decry their views believe.....

    That's Ben Ryan tweeting a tweet about a news article from EurekAlert(?) about a paper entitled "The effects of Facebook and Instagram on the 2020 election: A deactivation experiment" at https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2321584121
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    That would actually be a useful policy for her to pursue: removing visible lanyards, passes, and other forms of ID when leaving the building.

    It's already done in some particularly sensitive bits of the civil service, but should be rolled out more widely.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    As mentioned earlier in the thread, a BlancheLivermore/Leon mashup would be quite something, The Trip meets The Odd Couple.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited May 13
    Watkins surely offside
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    nico679 said:

    What’s Rosie Duffield going to do . Resign the whip in protest or defect to the Tories to likely lose her seat !

    On a different matter re today’s Belfast ruling . Either the UK government lawyers when advising on the Illegal Migration Act are useless and didn’t see a possible conflict with the GFA and WA or the government wants this fight .

    This lot are so useless it's hard to guess, but on balance their (worthless) interests are best served by having the excuse of delay caused by leftie lawyers, Supreme Court etc instead of having to go ahead with a flight and then their 6 remaining Daily Mail reading supporters discovering that the boats continue.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Who else would love to see @Leon and @BlancheLivermore elope and travel the world together??? :D

    With @IanB2.

    Like Ramsay, D’Acampo and Fred Sybian.
    Three Men in a (Leaky) Boat
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited May 13
    I request that Leon and Blanche Livermore go on a gourmet food holiday together, reporting back to PB on its progress. 😊
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    The hospital admin staff round here like to wear their rainbow lanyards walking down the street.

    Are they expecting to get respect for being a paper pusher, or do they need a label to remind them who they are?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    The players would surely rather play in the CL than have a year out of it to stop Arsenal winning the ledger though. Let’s hope so. COYS!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Agreed. They are naff. Never really grasped the point of them full stop. Shouldn’t be necessary to have landfill around people’s necks in this day and age.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    isam said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    The players would surely rather play in the CL than have a year out of it to stop Arsenal winning the ledger though. Let’s hope so. COYS!
    Ha. Yeah maybe they would - although they have some chance of winning the Europa League compared to absolutely zero chance of winning the Champions’ League!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited May 13
    Evidence from a previous Court action shows that Trump knew the payments to Michael Cohen were to reimburse him for paying off Stormy Daniels, not "legal fees".

    That's in contradiction to statements his lawyer has been making in Court.

    Hmmmm.

    Listen for about 2-3 minutes here:
    https://youtu.be/A9aJttdiNw8?t=230
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited May 13
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    Do you have a link for that? Sounds interesting.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited May 13
    nico679 said:

    What’s Rosie Duffield going to do . Resign the whip in protest or defect to the Tories to likely lose her seat !

    On a different matter re today’s Belfast ruling . Either the UK government lawyers when advising on the Illegal Migration Act are useless and didn’t see a possible conflict with the GFA and WA or the government wants this fight .

    Rosie’s presence on Rejoin marches has always made a defection to the Tory benches less likely than some on here would have us believe. However if someone had told me NE would cross the floor I wouldn’t have believed them either.

    My constituency, bordering both, got its first pre-election leaflet from Damian Green MP today. The total absence of any indication of party affiliation until the third page, and then just a small picture of Green with Sunak, would actually lead a casual observer to question which party held this specific part of East Kent. He weirdly leads on campaigning for Eurostar to come back to Ashford, something lost on his watch, and a that he’s had very no success in regaining.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    That is the main problem with Spurs fans. They’ve won practically nothing for decades and have got used to getting their kicks out of Arsenal slip ups. Their reaction last season to Arsenal throwing it away was embarrassing. What have you done lately lads? As I monotonously point out, even my team (Ipswich) has won the league more recently.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    That is the main problem with Spurs fans. They’ve won practically nothing for decades and have got used to getting their kicks out of Arsenal slip ups. Their reaction last season to Arsenal throwing it away was embarrassing. What have you done lately lads? As I monotonously point out, even my team (Ipswich) has won the league more recently.
    Fair enough, but the Arsenal lads around me would be the same were the roles reversed. The rivalry is intense for the fans that are actually from north London. Less so modern fans who come from outside.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited May 13

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Early in my career I walked past a security poster every day forbidding me from wearing my pass outside the office because it was a security risk. Ever since then I've found it very noticeable how many other people at other workplaces didn't get that memo.
    This (pass) is an Official Document and if found MUST be handed in to the nearest police station etc etc etc

    Not for wearing to the pub.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,827
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    That is the main problem with Spurs fans. They’ve won practically nothing for decades and have got used to getting their kicks out of Arsenal slip ups. Their reaction last season to Arsenal throwing it away was embarrassing. What have you done lately lads? As I monotonously point out, even my team (Ipswich) has won the league more recently.
    To be fair Spurs had Kane playing for them for years. Look at what’s happened to Bayern since he went there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    It must be so hard, feeling yourself forever in the shadow of Arsenal.

    I really feel for you.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Early in my career I walked past a security poster every day forbidding me from wearing my pass outside the office because it was a security risk. Ever since then I've found it very noticeable how many other people at other workplaces didn't get that memo.
    This is an Official Document and if found MUST be handed in to the nearest police station etc etc etc

    Not for wearing to the pub.
    With modern phone/thumbprint technology it seems absurd that people are still wearing a plastic security pass on a piece of string around their neck, that they wear to the pub, then leave in the bog when pissed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    It must be so hard, feeling yourself forever in the shadow of Arsenal.

    I really feel for you.
    Not my club, but my son’s. And no, he enjoys the rivalry. Quite a few of his mates are Arsenal. It’s one or the other around here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MattW said:

    Evidence from a previous Court action shows that Trump knew the payments to Michael Cohen were to reimburse him for paying off Stormy Daniels, not "legal fees".

    That's in contradiction to statements his lawyer has been making in Court.

    Hmmmm.

    Listen for about 2-3 minutes here:
    https://youtu.be/A9aJttdiNw8?t=230

    When you lie constantly, it becomes hard to keep track.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    That is the main problem with Spurs fans. They’ve won practically nothing for decades and have got used to getting their kicks out of Arsenal slip ups. Their reaction last season to Arsenal throwing it away was embarrassing. What have you done lately lads? As I monotonously point out, even my team (Ipswich) has won the league more recently.
    Fair enough, but the Arsenal lads around me would be the same were the roles reversed. The rivalry is intense for the fans that are actually from north London. Less so modern fans who come from outside.
    What do they know of Highbury that only Emirates know?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    The worst thing about cheering for Spurs is that you notice just how rubbish they are. That performance at Chelsea the other week was utterly appalling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited May 13
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Evidence from a previous Court action shows that Trump knew the payments to Michael Cohen were to reimburse him for paying off Stormy Daniels, not "legal fees".

    That's in contradiction to statements his lawyer has been making in Court.

    Hmmmm.

    Listen for about 2-3 minutes here:
    https://youtu.be/A9aJttdiNw8?t=230

    When you lie constantly, it becomes hard to keep track.
    And while Cohen is a convicted perjurer, his evidence today is corroborated by documentary evidence.

    For example:
    https://twitter.com/NormEisen/status/1790112531303829934
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Police officers in Britain could be armed with Ghostbusters-style devices that fire electromagnetic rays to shut down the engines of ebikes being used in a crime.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/13/uk-police-ghostbusters-style-backpack-devices-ebike-getaways

    Not sure that this system to disable e-bikes supposedly being developed by DSTL for the National Police Chief's Council is quite a good idea as they seem to think...

    Even if they did manage to make it sufficiently precise to target only one specific e-bike and not surrounding vehicles, computers, telecoms, or network infrastructure... surely deliberately causing a li-ion battery to suddenly overheat to the point of failure is going to end up setting the things on fire?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Shaking hands is probably a massive disease vector given how often people touch their face and how unhygienic some are.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Hard rain is gonna fall...




    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    number of international students paying deposits to study at UK universities has “plummeted” after Sunak put restrictions on education visas

    Enroly said deposits to a sample of 24 British universities had declined 57% year-on-year as of May

    via
    @pmdfoster

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1790087162223849769
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Early in my career I walked past a security poster every day forbidding me from wearing my pass outside the office because it was a security risk. Ever since then I've found it very noticeable how many other people at other workplaces didn't get that memo.
    Which is why in principle McVey is wrong to say the lanyard should be "a standard design reflecting that we are all members of the government". As a simple security precaution the lanyard shouldn't identify the building where the pass can be used to gain entry.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited May 13

    I don't care what lanyards people use.

    But if it is still round your neck after work in the pub, you look like a proper pillock.

    Early in my career I walked past a security poster every day forbidding me from wearing my pass outside the office because it was a security risk. Ever since then I've found it very noticeable how many other people at other workplaces didn't get that memo.
    This is an Official Document and if found MUST be handed in to the nearest police station etc etc etc

    Not for wearing to the pub.
    With modern phone/thumbprint technology it seems absurd that people are still wearing a plastic security pass on a piece of string around their neck, that they wear to the pub, then leave in the bog when pissed.
    I think the idea is that it is an obvious visible sign that someone is supposed to be walking around in a secure area (or sitting behind the desk in a hospital) rather than providing the means to get past a gate.

    Gates can often be gamed.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    As I say, rivalry is the main thing for most fans in north London. Not cash. I reckon 90% of Spurs near me would rather finish 5th than Arsenal win the league.
    I may have misunderstood professional football, but I don't think Spurs FANS will be playing against Man City.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
    The one that mystifies me the most is people who turn the tap on, wave their hands near to it for a few seconds, then pretend to dry them off.

    I mean... why? What do they hope to gain from not actually making contact with the water?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    tlg86 said:

    The worst thing about cheering for Spurs is that you notice just how rubbish they are. That performance at Chelsea the other week was utterly appalling.

    I love hearing moans from fans of Premiership clubs. As a Swindon fan I have a sense of perspective…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    Hard rain is gonna fall...




    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    number of international students paying deposits to study at UK universities has “plummeted” after Sunak put restrictions on education visas

    Enroly said deposits to a sample of 24 British universities had declined 57% year-on-year as of May

    via
    @pmdfoster

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1790087162223849769

    Tough shit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    AlsoLei said:

    Police officers in Britain could be armed with Ghostbusters-style devices that fire electromagnetic rays to shut down the engines of ebikes being used in a crime.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/13/uk-police-ghostbusters-style-backpack-devices-ebike-getaways

    Not sure that this system to disable e-bikes supposedly being developed by DSTL for the National Police Chief's Council is quite a good idea as they seem to think...

    Even if they did manage to make it sufficiently precise to target only one specific e-bike and not surrounding vehicles, computers, telecoms, or network infrastructure... surely deliberately causing a li-ion battery to suddenly overheat to the point of failure is going to end up setting the things on fire?

    I’m not seeing the issue? The rider can easily dismount the burning bike.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Hard rain is gonna fall...




    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    number of international students paying deposits to study at UK universities has “plummeted” after Sunak put restrictions on education visas

    Enroly said deposits to a sample of 24 British universities had declined 57% year-on-year as of May

    via
    @pmdfoster

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1790087162223849769

    Tough shit.
    For who?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited May 13
    AlsoLei said:

    Police officers in Britain could be armed with Ghostbusters-style devices that fire electromagnetic rays to shut down the engines of ebikes being used in a crime.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/13/uk-police-ghostbusters-style-backpack-devices-ebike-getaways

    Not sure that this system to disable e-bikes supposedly being developed by DSTL for the National Police Chief's Council is quite a good idea as they seem to think...

    Even if they did manage to make it sufficiently precise to target only one specific e-bike and not surrounding vehicles, computers, telecoms, or network infrastructure... surely deliberately causing a li-ion battery to suddenly overheat to the point of failure is going to end up setting the things on fire?

    A handheld EMP device?

    I have, er, wondered about whether such a thing may be constructed - just for the lolz you understand - and what exactly the consequences might be if cars with loud stereos suddenly and mysteriously became silent.

    Unfortunately generating the EMF is easiest with something that goes bang and likely destroys everything else in the vicinity. Possibly even a 20 mile radius if Malmesbury is involved.

    It is possible that such a contraption is easier to build if only targeting bikes but I'm sure the scroats will soon have their batteries wrapped in a Faraday cage.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Hard rain is gonna fall...




    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    number of international students paying deposits to study at UK universities has “plummeted” after Sunak put restrictions on education visas

    Enroly said deposits to a sample of 24 British universities had declined 57% year-on-year as of May

    via
    @pmdfoster

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1790087162223849769

    Oh, well...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    AlsoLei said:

    Police officers in Britain could be armed with Ghostbusters-style devices that fire electromagnetic rays to shut down the engines of ebikes being used in a crime.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/13/uk-police-ghostbusters-style-backpack-devices-ebike-getaways

    Not sure that this system to disable e-bikes supposedly being developed by DSTL for the National Police Chief's Council is quite a good idea as they seem to think...

    Even if they did manage to make it sufficiently precise to target only one specific e-bike and not surrounding vehicles, computers, telecoms, or network infrastructure... surely deliberately causing a li-ion battery to suddenly overheat to the point of failure is going to end up setting the things on fire?

    A handheld EMP device?

    I have, er, wondered about whether such a thing may be constructed - just for the lolz you understand - and what exactly the consequences might be if cars with loud stereos suddenly and mysteriously became silent.

    Unfortunately generating the EMF is easiest with something that goes bang and likely destroys everything else in the vicinity. Possibly even a 20 mile radius if Malmesbury is involved.

    It is possible that such a contraption is easier to build if only targeting bikes but I'm sure the scroats would soon put have their batteries wrapped in a Faraday cage.
    Don’t tell him Pike!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Tories must be Priti desperate!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
    They might be Dutch:

    https://www.europeancleaningjournal.com/magazine/articles/latest-news/bosnians-are-sticklers-for-hand-hygiene-but-not-so-the-dutch#:~:text=The Dutch are the least,hands after a bathroom visit.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited May 13
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
    I’m guilty of that too I’m afraid. If I could choose Arsenal finishing 5th and Tottenham 2nd or Arsenal 4th and in CL, but TH win the league, it would be the former all day long, every single time
    Yep. And I think that’s the case for most fans of both clubs who are from north London. If you are a modern fan who comes from Surrey/Hampshire/Scotland the north London rivalry is largely meaningless. You don’t have to live, work and go to school every day with the other lot.

    My son is mad Spurs and wants them to lose tomorrow. His school will be unbearable if Arsenal win the title.

    I think it shows just how complacent English clubs have become that they would pass up the chance to play in the Champions League, earn more money and attract better players.
    player will defo want to get top 4 (players could not give a fig about Arsenal one way or the other ) . Match fixing would also get you banned for a long long time-
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    MattW said:

    Evidence from a previous Court action shows that Trump knew the payments to Michael Cohen were to reimburse him for paying off Stormy Daniels, not "legal fees".

    That's in contradiction to statements his lawyer has been making in Court.

    Hmmmm.

    Listen for about 2-3 minutes here:
    https://youtu.be/A9aJttdiNw8?t=230

    THE model for re-constructions of Trump's (as yet) alleged crimes & trials

    The Untouchables (1961)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZTjQ7SLvUk

    We especially need someone similar to Walter Winchell to do the narration!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    My legendary modesty prevents me from reminding you all that I tipped Patel at 33/1 earlier on this year.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/18/i-agree-with-david-gauke/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    My legendary modesty prevents me from reminding you all that I tipped Patel at 33/1 earlier on this year.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/18/i-agree-with-david-gauke/
    still avauilable at 9
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012

    I've had my hake steak. I'm pretty sure the legumes oubliés were swede and carrot. It was delicious. The hake was perfectly cooked, not a single bit was at all dry

    I've ordered Gateau Basque Cerise and another glass of Patxaran for dessert


    I've ordered a chicken tikka curry and a Madri from the Brewer's Fayre next to the Premier Inn up in Barrow.

    It was almost approaching delicious. The sauce was perfectly microwaved and the chicken competitively sourced. The beer was relatively crisp and not too warm.

    I might go for the chocolate brownie for dessert.


    Sounds just like one of my trips with work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    Education is completely fucked as we know it. Go on TwiX and spend ten minutes looking at trends and you’ll know why. Most universities are therefore doomed anyway
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    "The Power of Deliberative Democracy (feat. Emmanuel Macron) | A Brief History of the Future", PBS on YouTube, May 6, 2024, 9mins, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ckcgGoTGg

    AI summary via https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

    The text highlights the importance of trust in social systems and the deepening crisis of trust due to increasing distance between people. It discusses the current state of democracy, with many democracies facing backsliding and challenges in representing the voices of the people. Deliberative democracy is presented as a solution, with examples from France and the U.S. showcasing citizen conventions and events like "America in One Room" that promote collective decision-making and understanding.

    Emmanuel Macron's approach in France involved citizen conventions to address major challenges like climate change, leading to positive outcomes and a sense of collective intelligence. In the U.S., "America in One Room" demonstrated how people can change their minds and come together through structured deliberation on various topics. The text emphasizes the need for citizen involvement in democracy and the importance of empathy, structured conversations, and building skills to create a future where everyone listens to each other.

    The text also touches on the limitations of centralized control in complex systems like society and the potential for participatory and deliberative democracy to bring about extraordinary results. It calls for a shift towards self-organization of humanity and highlights the need for people to envision a better future and work together towards it.



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    My legendary modesty prevents me from reminding you all that I tipped Patel at 33/1 earlier on this year.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/18/i-agree-with-david-gauke/
    Priti vacant.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
    If you need to wash your hands after touching your penis, you need to wash your penis.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    another mess for starmer and co.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    But #Priti4Leader was supposed to be a piss take.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    another mess for starmer and co.

    Sunak and Hunt are salting the earth for every public organisation and many private ones.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
    If you need to wash your hands after touching your penis, you need to wash your penis.
    But if you're the kind of guy who doesn't wash his hands how clean is your penis going to be?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    Education is completely fucked as we know it. Go on TwiX and spend ten minutes looking at trends and you’ll know why. Most universities are therefore doomed anyway
    You, as ever, overstate your case. We are in a period of challenge, but you need to answer the question - what are universities for, before you decide their fate.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    Don't worry, we've all made silly mistakes like this. And it does sometimes make things more interesting.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TimS said:

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    Fresh air saves lives could have been a catchy slogan.

    One improvement, for me at least, has been better hand washing.

    I do wonder if it has contributed to not suffering from colds during the past four years.
    Improved hand washing across all sections of society is thought to have contributed to the significant decline in stomach upsets, food poisoning and the like.
    If you're at a pub or restaurant you still occasionally see blokes walking out of the toilets without washing their hands. So disgusting. Makes you wonder how some people were brought up.
    They might be Dutch:

    https://www.europeancleaningjournal.com/magazine/articles/latest-news/bosnians-are-sticklers-for-hand-hygiene-but-not-so-the-dutch#:~:text=The Dutch are the least,hands after a bathroom visit.
    As in, "we're in a hurry, just give your mitts a "Dutch rinse" mate"?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    another mess for starmer and co.

    Some easy fixes - raise the cap on fees, certainly for science and engineering degrees. Think long and hard about bursaries for students from underprivileged backgrounds. Question the societal benefit from a target of 50% of kids attending Uni. Look more at degree apprenticeships.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Priti Patel versus Suella Braverman would be an interesting contest.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,012
    Back to lanyards/id badges - a colleague was telling me that at their other half's company they don't have the company name on their badges. They are not the most popular organisation, and this is to protect employees from potential abuse should they happen to be displaying their badge in public.

    Doesn't stop them from looking like a pillock in the pub, however.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Hard rain is gonna fall...




    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    number of international students paying deposits to study at UK universities has “plummeted” after Sunak put restrictions on education visas

    Enroly said deposits to a sample of 24 British universities had declined 57% year-on-year as of May

    via
    @pmdfoster

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1790087162223849769

    Tough shit.
    Potentially very tough shit for tens of thousands of British students whose education has been disrupted at every turn this decade.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Chief Exec of UK universities:



    vivienne stern
    @viviennestern
    Government restrictions to international students bringing dependants has already had a big impact: you wanted to bring down student numbers, you have already succeeded. Now good unis all over the country are heading for financial trouble.

    https://twitter.com/viviennestern/status/1790113948873736449

    Tbf the financial trouble has been there for a while. We are currently on a recruitment ‘chill’. Not a freeze, a chill. So you have to make a really good case for new or replacement posts.
    Tuition fees for home students have stayed the same for a long time in the face of inflation to everything else. Something will have to give at some point.
    another mess for starmer and co.

    Some easy fixes - raise the cap on fees, certainly for science and engineering degrees. Think long and hard about bursaries for students from underprivileged backgrounds. Question the societal benefit from a target of 50% of kids attending Uni. Look more at degree apprenticeships.
    A lot/most/all unis have been mainlining on foreign students paying twice or more the rate for a UK student.

    How high can Starmer raise the cap for domestic students in first years of his premiership?

    It's a massive headache.
This discussion has been closed.