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Lock him up has majority support – politicalbetting.com

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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    Not wearing one can also be kind of a political statement. Not necessarily of anything specific but in general. Eg I don't wear one and it's a choice I make, it's not that I forget or cannot be bothered. Why? I'm not totally sure but it just feels right for me to be unadorned with poppy during the remembrance period, even though I find much if what's being remembered very consequential and moving.
    Every November I shove a £10 in a collecting tin at the station, take the poppy, but don’t wear it. Pick the bones out of that one. It’s something I’ve always done.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    IanB2 said:

    Today, we visited our old haunts in Modena, and I took him to the vet. So nothing particularly photogenic. Yesterday, on a sweaty hot Sunday, we went down to the banks of one of Europe’s great rivers, and got covered in the falling blossom you can see on the ground all around. img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/88/ef3xuu2p7a6y.jpeg" alt="" />

    Modena you say. Are you going to watch some racing cars at Imola this weekend?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    I was a member of the Labour Party in my younger years. But when I realised they weren’t really interested in my opinions, there weren’t lots of nice girls to meet and they just wanted me to go out and put leaflets through doors in the local hood I left.
    Shocking. They should have put you on the NEC day 1.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today, we visited our old haunts in Modena, and I took him to the vet. So nothing particularly photogenic. Yesterday, on a sweaty hot Sunday, we went down to the banks of one of Europe’s great rivers, and got covered in the falling blossom you can see on the ground all around. img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/88/ef3xuu2p7a6y.jpeg" alt="" />

    Modena you say. Are you going to watch some racing cars at Imola this weekend?
    I know nothing about such matters, deferring to our Morris.

    Besides, by the weekend I will be up by the Slovenian border.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    ...

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Join me for the passegiata around Polignano-a-Mare!

    It is said to have nice views. All PBers welcome, especially @kinabalu because I hear they have toe-tapping live music in the al fresco terrace bars

    Yes, I can't wait for next Jan. Maybe 10 nights this time.
    ...and miss the General Election?
    Ha! No way. It's got to be between 24/10 and 12/12. But if I'm wrong I'll cancel/rebook for Feb. Those outside terrace al fresco live musical events of a balmy Tenerife evening will be all the more foot-tapping and groovy knowing that old Blighty is safely back in the hands of a Labour government with a good working majority.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Wrong season guys.

    Arguments about poppies kick off every year on 1st November.

    It's May. We should be moaning about how shit the weather is/how hot it is or how expensive/crap the festivals are instead.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    megasaur said:

    Leon said:

    Well, who could argue with this? Indeed, who hasn’t felt exactly this?



    Ebrezze is inebriation (cf ivresse).
    Grazie. I was wondering

    My octopus sandwich has arrived. Apparently a speciality of the region

    Looks nice. Inviting. Tastes pleasant, lacks seasoning and oomph. But “pleasant” makes it the most disappointing thing I’ve eaten (hotel breakfasts aside) in a week. The quality of the food in puglia is very high. As good as Sicily and heading towards Calabria

    Last night for a pasta dish they gave me “spaghetti with oysters”. I was expecting to see, well, oysters. But it looked like spaghetti with a grey sauce. Doesn’t sound good?

    Yet what they’d done was infuse some oily sauce with the essence of oysters so the whole thing was fucking incredible. Essence of umami and oysters plus the consolations of well made, fresh, al dente pasta.

    Probably the second best pasta dish of my life. The best was in Calabria! If you remember a humble pasta dish for life then it has to be good
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    2 hours Stansted to London is almost tight enough to be interesting. Do you have hold luggage?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    megasaur said:

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    2 hours Stansted to London is almost tight enough to be interesting. Do you have hold luggage?
    No, or I would be worried
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Leon said:

    megasaur said:

    Leon said:

    Well, who could argue with this? Indeed, who hasn’t felt exactly this?



    Ebrezze is inebriation (cf ivresse).
    Grazie. I was wondering

    My octopus sandwich has arrived. Apparently a speciality of the region

    Looks nice. Inviting. Tastes pleasant, lacks seasoning and oomph. But “pleasant” makes it the most disappointing thing I’ve eaten (hotel breakfasts aside) in a week. The quality of the food in puglia is very high. As good as Sicily and heading towards Calabria

    Last night for a pasta dish they gave me “spaghetti with oysters”. I was expecting to see, well, oysters. But it looked like spaghetti with a grey sauce. Doesn’t sound good?

    Yet what they’d done was infuse some oily sauce with the essence of oysters so the whole thing was fucking incredible. Essence of umami and oysters plus the consolations of well made, fresh, al dente pasta.

    Probably the second best pasta dish of my life. The best was in Calabria! If you remember a humble pasta dish for life then it has to be good
    They are good at that stuff down there. Cf sea urchin pasta in Sicily
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    edited May 13
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today, we visited our old haunts in Modena, and I took him to the vet. So nothing particularly photogenic. Yesterday, on a sweaty hot Sunday, we went down to the banks of one of Europe’s great rivers, and got covered in the falling blossom you can see on the ground all around. img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/88/ef3xuu2p7a6y.jpeg" alt="" />

    Modena you say. Are you going to watch some racing cars at Imola this weekend?
    I know nothing about such matters, deferring to our Morris.

    Besides, by the weekend I will be up by the Slovenian border.
    Check the border line in the square at Gorizia, which was once the iron curtain. Read the extraordinary history of the town’s Division and Unification. Then visit the Jewish ghetto. Now so silent
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    nico679 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    nico679 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Belfast high court judge suspends most of the Illegal Migration Act from coming into force in NI as it breaches the Windsor Framework and therefore the GFA .

    The wheels are coming off already from the Rwanda plan .

    Those bloody foreign courts again!

    Oh...
    The ERG and assorted nutjobs will of course jump on the full ruling where it mentions the ECHR . Of course the pathetic spineless gimp Sunak just threatens to remove the UK from the ECHR in the full knowledge that that would be a major breach of the GFA . And open a Pandora’s box of further problems .
    The ERG, of course, examined the Windsor Framework - their assessment at https://lawyersforbritain.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/ERG-Legal-Advisory-Committee-Review-and-Assessment-21-March-2023.pdf makes no mention of Article 2 and how it or any of its provisions might interact with future immigration legislation.
    Was that the alleged Star Chamber of lawyers that the odious Mark Francois referred to with such glee ?

    It’s likely to end up in the Supreme Court now regardless of any future Appeals Court Decision .

    Sunak can say what he likes but you can’t have this type of legislation only in the UK excluding NI . The government can’t be that stupid ? Or can they . Asylum seekers can get to NI and stay there now . The only way to stop that is for full passport checks at all ports . The DUP will love that !

    #Sunak Winning Bigly !!!
    To be fair, you already need to show photographic ID at ports and airports. Ryanair will only accept a passport, Easyjet and Aer Lingus want a passport or EU/EEA national ID. I think it's only BA who will accept a driving licence.

    The real issue would be breaking up the Common Travel Area and requiring passports at the Irish border.
    Oh I didn’t realize . Thanks for clarifying that .
    You do NOT need to show any id to board any ferry sailing between UK and RoI.
    Interesting - you do on the routes between NI and both England and Scotland, although they'll accept driving license & govt-issued ID as well as passport if you're a British or Irish citizen (or both!). Passport only (and visa where applicable) for everyone else.

    For the Isle of Man, they merely "advise" you to bring ID, and say that "A driving licence, citizenship card or utility bill will usually suffice"!

    So there you have it - Liverpool - Douglas - Belfast will be the prime people smuggling route...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited May 13
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    Any large supermarket.
    Very useful for differentiating Covid from a more innocuous RTI before you pass it on to your co-workers. I've just had a family member off work for a week; it would have been highly inconvenient just now had I got it too.

    It's not paranoia, just common sense. I presume you're a man of leisure ?
    You were always a sad type when it came to that sort of thing. Why I was in Aldi only the other day (sadly the Chateau Let Trois Manoirs is sold out since it featured in the Times Weekend section) and no one was wearing a mask. No one. No one wears a mask at all anywhere let me rephrase. 0.01% of people wear masks and good luck to them.

    As Discworld points out, "Masks are to protect other people, not the wearer, and this is a courtesy to your fellow members."

    So 99.99% of people are not displaying this courtesy and the ones that are are, epidemiologically speaking, fucking idiots.
    And you the sarcy, slightly slow on the uptake one.
    Apparently.
    It's all the same. When was the last time you took a test.
    I took one on Christmas morning last year. Felt a bit rough, was due to go see my parents, tested positive, cancelled the trip so as not to give them a potentially debilitating respiratory virus. They had to make do with just a card.
    So what did you do before tests when you were due to see your parents and you felt a bit ropey.
    Or if I didn't happen to have one available even. Depending how ropey but in this case (not that terrible) I'd probably have gone - and given them Covid.

    Taking the test saved them from that and me from how I'd have felt about it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    Topping white poppy is the PC correct woke halfwits , should be ignored by any sensible person.
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    Kamala Harris will resign on account of a sudden “health or family problem” that prevents her from attending to her duties. “Joe Biden” will appoint HRC of the Purple Pantsuit as veep. Three weeks later, “JB” will submit his resignation for medical reasons, and nobody will need to ask why. Voila! Yhe great rematch is on and the first woman president awaits....

    What i am trying to say here: the democrats are in a dreadful place and it cannot go on.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    AlsoLei said:

    nico679 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    nico679 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Belfast high court judge suspends most of the Illegal Migration Act from coming into force in NI as it breaches the Windsor Framework and therefore the GFA .

    The wheels are coming off already from the Rwanda plan .

    Those bloody foreign courts again!

    Oh...
    The ERG and assorted nutjobs will of course jump on the full ruling where it mentions the ECHR . Of course the pathetic spineless gimp Sunak just threatens to remove the UK from the ECHR in the full knowledge that that would be a major breach of the GFA . And open a Pandora’s box of further problems .
    The ERG, of course, examined the Windsor Framework - their assessment at https://lawyersforbritain.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/ERG-Legal-Advisory-Committee-Review-and-Assessment-21-March-2023.pdf makes no mention of Article 2 and how it or any of its provisions might interact with future immigration legislation.
    Was that the alleged Star Chamber of lawyers that the odious Mark Francois referred to with such glee ?

    It’s likely to end up in the Supreme Court now regardless of any future Appeals Court Decision .

    Sunak can say what he likes but you can’t have this type of legislation only in the UK excluding NI . The government can’t be that stupid ? Or can they . Asylum seekers can get to NI and stay there now . The only way to stop that is for full passport checks at all ports . The DUP will love that !

    #Sunak Winning Bigly !!!
    To be fair, you already need to show photographic ID at ports and airports. Ryanair will only accept a passport, Easyjet and Aer Lingus want a passport or EU/EEA national ID. I think it's only BA who will accept a driving licence.

    The real issue would be breaking up the Common Travel Area and requiring passports at the Irish border.
    Oh I didn’t realize . Thanks for clarifying that .
    You do NOT need to show any id to board any ferry sailing between UK and RoI.
    Interesting - you do on the routes between NI and both England and Scotland, although they'll accept driving license & govt-issued ID as well as passport if you're a British or Irish citizen (or both!). Passport only (and visa where applicable) for everyone else.

    For the Isle of Man, they merely "advise" you to bring ID, and say that "A driving licence, citizenship card or utility bill will usually suffice"!

    So there you have it - Liverpool - Douglas - Belfast will be the prime people smuggling route...
    I’m having considerable problems trying to get my drivers licence back! Swansea seems to have lost the correspondence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    Any large supermarket.
    Very useful for differentiating Covid from a more innocuous RTI before you pass it on to your co-workers. I've just had a family member off work for a week; it would have been highly inconvenient just now had I got it too.

    It's not paranoia, just common sense. I presume you're a man of leisure ?
    You were always a sad type when it came to that sort of thing. Why I was in Aldi only the other day (sadly the Chateau Let Trois Manoirs is sold out since it featured in the Times Weekend section) and no one was wearing a mask. No one. No one wears a mask at all anywhere let me rephrase. 0.01% of people wear masks and good luck to them.

    As Discworld points out, "Masks are to protect other people, not the wearer, and this is a courtesy to your fellow members."

    So 99.99% of people are not displaying this courtesy and the ones that are are, epidemiologically speaking, fucking idiots.
    And you the sarcy, slightly slow on the uptake one.
    Apparently.
    It's all the same. When was the last time you took a test.
    This morning.
    Another family member came down with it over the weekend and I had work meetings.
    Consideration for others, you see.

    There's a lot of it going round in the last few weeks for some reason.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    This stuff is what often makes travel great. It’s when it goes WRONG
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again. Spurs fans are the absolute worst.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Good evening

    I deliberately avoided Sunak's speech today as no matter what he says nobody is listening .

    It may make him feel good, and he has a lot of misjudged self assurance, but it just isn't and won't cut through as demands for an election grow

    I expect more defections and Caroline Nokes must be high on the list, but no matter Starmer is going into no 10 and, frankly, the sooner the better and let him experience 24/7 media scrutiny and his ministers

    I expect he will enjoy a honeymoon period just because the relief the nation will feel, but I have no confidence he has the ability to take the hard decisions the country needs on the triple lock, taxation, and controlling public sector wage demands

    Whether he gains a further term will depend on many things, including events that come along out of the blue (covid and war in Ukraine) and just how vocal the left in his party become once their side has been elected

    It should be remembered that when Johnson won in 2019 with an 80 sea majority very few expected the conservative party to lose in 2024, let alone lose by a possible landslide

    I am sure sensible labour supporters will be just pleased to win a more than workable majority for now
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    megasaur said:

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    2 hours Stansted to London is almost tight enough to be interesting. Do you have hold luggage?
    Not at €12 for sure
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Leon said:

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    This stuff is what often makes travel great. It’s when it goes WRONG
    After the initial panic and despair, I now feel like I've sneaked a bonus day and a half's holiday in

    And the extra two flights only cost me 25€!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Leon said:

    I'm officially an idiot

    I was on the train from Hendaye (where I had to change from San Sebastian) to Biarritz. I'd booked my hotel in France and was chomping away on the last of my quite delicious Gateau Basque (thanks for the tip @kjh - the Patxaran was good too), when I decided to check in for my flight tomorrow

    I opened the Ryanair app and selected the flight. I tried pressing the check in button, but it was all greyed out. I closed the app and started again, with the same result. Then I noticed..

    My flight was this morning!

    After a moment of panic, I regained a little composure and checked flights for tomorrow. There was one, and for only 13€. But that didn't get into Stansted until 10:15pm. This was going to make a tricky, and expensive, journey back to Wiltshire. But I booked it anyway; I need to get home, I've got to be at work on Wednesday

    When I got off the train and started the walk to the hotel in Biarritz, I had a brainwave.. what about Bordeaux? It's not too far, and there are definitely flights to the UK. I checked the Ryanair app again, and bingo: a flight tomorrow to Stansted, landing at 8:30pm, for only 12€. Not the most convenient evening's travel home before going back to work, but definitely doable

    I called my folks to let them know I'd be home much later than planned. In a stroke of outrageously good fortune, my parents are going to a show at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane tomorrow night, and have a cab booked back to Marlborough at 10:30pm

    So, if my flight isn't delayed, I have two hours to get from the plane to central London. Which in theory is pretty straightforward

    PHEW!!

    This stuff is what often makes travel great. It’s when it goes WRONG
    After the initial panic and despair, I now feel like I've sneaked a bonus day and a half's holiday in

    And the extra two flights only cost me 25€!
    wasted €13 though, ask for a refund
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    DougSeal said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    I’ve said it before on here and I’ll say it again. Spurs fans are the absolute worst.
    Looks as if Spurs may be the victims of several unfortunate own goals !!!!!!!!!!!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:


    Given SpaceX's new revenue projections for this year, he's no longer strapped for cash ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634

    Kamala Harris will resign on account of a sudden “health or family problem” that prevents her from attending to her duties. “Joe Biden” will appoint HRC of the Purple Pantsuit as veep. Three weeks later, “JB” will submit his resignation for medical reasons, and nobody will need to ask why. Voila! Yhe great rematch is on and the first woman president awaits....

    What i am trying to say here: the democrats are in a dreadful place and it cannot go on.

    Is this supposed to illustrate how the Democrats might extricate themselves, or how they could make it ten times worse?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Today, we visited our old haunts in Modena, and I took him to the vet. So nothing particularly photogenic. Yesterday, on a sweaty hot Sunday, we went down to the banks of one of Europe’s great rivers, and got covered in the falling blossom you can see on the ground all around. img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/88/ef3xuu2p7a6y.jpeg" alt="" />

    Modena you say. Are you going to watch some racing cars at Imola this weekend?
    I know nothing about such matters, deferring to our Morris.

    Besides, by the weekend I will be up by the Slovenian border.
    Check the border line in the square at Gorizia, which was once the iron curtain. Read the extraordinary history of the town’s Division and Unification. Then visit the Jewish ghetto. Now so silent
    Yes, I have been to Gorizia twice before.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:


    Shall I tell you what's really interesting about this: only 700-odd likes for an Elon Musk comment. The vast majority of people looking at this are thinking WTF Elon. Kids might be "free" for a billionaire, but they sure as shit aren't free for me.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited May 13
    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Kamala Harris will resign on account of a sudden “health or family problem” that prevents her from attending to her duties. “Joe Biden” will appoint HRC of the Purple Pantsuit as veep. Three weeks later, “JB” will submit his resignation for medical reasons, and nobody will need to ask why. Voila! Yhe great rematch is on and the first woman president awaits....

    What i am trying to say here: the democrats are in a dreadful place and it cannot go on.

    Is this supposed to illustrate how the Democrats might extricate themselves, or how they could make it ten times worse?
    For what it's worth, I think there is literally 0% chance of Harris choosing not to be VP and her being replaced by HRC.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Good evening

    I deliberately avoided Sunak's speech today as no matter what he says nobody is listening .

    It may make him feel good, and he has a lot of misjudged self assurance, but it just isn't and won't cut through as demands for an election grow

    I expect more defections and Caroline Nokes must be high on the list, but no matter Starmer is going into no 10 and, frankly, the sooner the better and let him experience 24/7 media scrutiny and his ministers

    I expect he will enjoy a honeymoon period just because the relief the nation will feel, but I have no confidence he has the ability to take the hard decisions the country needs on the triple lock, taxation, and controlling public sector wage demands

    Whether he gains a further term will depend on many things, including events that come along out of the blue (covid and war in Ukraine) and just how vocal the left in his party become once their side has been elected

    It should be remembered that when Johnson won in 2019 with an 80 sea majority very few expected the conservative party to lose in 2024, let alone lose by a possible landslide

    I am sure sensible labour supporters will be just pleased to win a more than workable majority for now

    Your 1st para is slightly self-fulfilling, BigG.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:


    Given SpaceX's new revenue projections for this year, he's no longer strapped for cash ?
    Is he planning to have a womb transplant...?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala Harris will resign on account of a sudden “health or family problem” that prevents her from attending to her duties. “Joe Biden” will appoint HRC of the Purple Pantsuit as veep. Three weeks later, “JB” will submit his resignation for medical reasons, and nobody will need to ask why. Voila! Yhe great rematch is on and the first woman president awaits....

    What i am trying to say here: the democrats are in a dreadful place and it cannot go on.

    Is this supposed to illustrate how the Democrats might extricate themselves, or how they could make it ten times worse?
    For what it's worth, I think there is literally 0% chance of Harris choosing not to be VP and her being replaced by HRC.
    I wouldn't put it that high myself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Kamala Harris will resign on account of a sudden “health or family problem” that prevents her from attending to her duties. “Joe Biden” will appoint HRC of the Purple Pantsuit as veep. Three weeks later, “JB” will submit his resignation for medical reasons, and nobody will need to ask why. Voila! Yhe great rematch is on and the first woman president awaits....

    What i am trying to say here: the democrats are in a dreadful place and it cannot go on.

    Is this supposed to illustrate how the Democrats might extricate themselves, or how they could make it ten times worse?
    Only ten times? Is there a missing 'thousand' between 'ten' and 'times?'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:

    Having them is free yes. Raising them with no money is a challenge though. Could Elon do that? I suppose he could. Magnificent man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    Not wearing one can also be kind of a political statement. Not necessarily of anything specific but in general. Eg I don't wear one and it's a choice I make, it's not that I forget or cannot be bothered. Why? I'm not totally sure but it just feels right for me to be unadorned with poppy during the remembrance period, even though I find much if what's being remembered very consequential and moving.
    Every November I shove a £10 in a collecting tin at the station, take the poppy, but don’t wear it. Pick the bones out of that one. It’s something I’ve always done.
    That's a win/win. Nice one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:

    Having them is free yes. Raising them with no money is a challenge though. Could Elon do that? I suppose he could. Magnificent man.
    He could set up a philanthropic fund to provide child benefit for qualifying parents.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    The bookmakers seem to have got the message. For example anyone fancying Spurs to win 2-0 can be accommodated at a snappy 55/1.

    I am not filled with hope that our North London friends will do their duty and massacre City on this special occasion. (Spurs 4-1 at 125/1 anyone?)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    algarkirk said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    The bookmakers seem to have got the message. For example anyone fancying Spurs to win 2-0 can be accommodated at a snappy 55/1.

    I am not filled with hope that our North London friends will do their duty and massacre City on this special occasion. (Spurs 4-1 at 125/1 anyone?)
    If Villa lose tonight Spurs are still playing for top 4. That should put a firework up their arse.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,605
    I do like the Guardian headline:

    Despite months of campaigning, Trump leads Biden in five key swing states, new poll shows

    Perhaps it should be because of rather than despite ?

    I cannot imagine how seeing more of the octogenarian is going to enthuse people to vote Democrat.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:

    Having them is free yes. Raising them with no money is a challenge though. Could Elon do that? I suppose he could. Magnificent man.
    Is childbirth free in the US, if you need a midwife or a maternity unit?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,605
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    The bookmakers seem to have got the message. For example anyone fancying Spurs to win 2-0 can be accommodated at a snappy 55/1.

    I am not filled with hope that our North London friends will do their duty and massacre City on this special occasion. (Spurs 4-1 at 125/1 anyone?)
    If Villa lose tonight Spurs are still playing for top 4. That should put a firework up their arse.
    Which would lead to them standing very still if unlit or running around in a mad panic if lit.

    Neither being conducive to successful playing of football.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    The bookmakers seem to have got the message. For example anyone fancying Spurs to win 2-0 can be accommodated at a snappy 55/1.

    I am not filled with hope that our North London friends will do their duty and massacre City on this special occasion. (Spurs 4-1 at 125/1 anyone?)
    If Villa lose tonight Spurs are still playing for top 4. That should put a firework up their arse.
    Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. Proverbs 13.12.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:

    Having them is free yes. Raising them with no money is a challenge though. Could Elon do that? I suppose he could. Magnificent man.
    Is childbirth free in the US, if you need a midwife or a maternity unit?
    Good point. Unless you have insurance you're doing it yourself with a blanket and a stiff gin.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    “community as a whole” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that argument. What you’re basically saying is that “no one thinks it’s political so it isn’t”. In at least one constituent part of the United Kingdom the wearing of a poppy is as politically charged a statement as they come.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yesterday there was a discussion about having kids, and fortunately Elon has spoken:

    Having them is free yes. Raising them with no money is a challenge though. Could Elon do that? I suppose he could. Magnificent man.
    Given he's in the US, surely even having them incurs a medical bill at the hospital?

    A quick google tells me that the cost of a simple delivery is $14,000, while a Guardian article from 2018 suggests the medical bill may be as much as $32,000.

    Still, Elon's right. Who needs a hospital to give birth in anyway?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    Who else would love to see @Leon and @BlancheLivermore elope and travel the world together??? :D
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Remembrance day services are an assertion of what Wilfred Owen called the old lie. I think we can be pretty certain he would not have worn a poppy. And the whole idea is built upon In Flanders Fields, an explicitly anti negotiated peace, pro war poem which Owen would not have written.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    edited May 13
    Evening all :)

    R&W and Deltapoll have produced what look superficially like two very different polls but in a sense they aren't. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Reform is 60-36 with R&W and 59-37 with Deltapoll.

    The interesting split for me is Con 21 Reform 15 with R&W as against Con 27 Reform 10 with Deltapoll.

    That's a big gap - is it down to polling methodology? Do Deltapoll prompt for the smaller parties - R&W seem to - so the Lab/LD number is 42-12 with R&W and 45-8 with Deltapoll? The Lab/Con share is 63% with R&W but 72% with Deltapoll which is again a huge divergence.

    I'd have thought in an election campaign smaller parties would get more coverage and attention than they do in "normal" times. To be fair, both polls point to a substantial Labour majority and oddly enough despite the numbers not a huge difference (250-290 seats).

    Go back to this time last year and the equivalent R&W was split 58-36 but Labour's lead was only 14 points.The equivalent Deltapoll was 61-34 so small swings one way or the other.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    Not wearing one can also be kind of a political statement. Not necessarily of anything specific but in general. Eg I don't wear one and it's a choice I make, it's not that I forget or cannot be bothered. Why? I'm not totally sure but it just feels right for me to be unadorned with poppy during the remembrance period, even though I find much if what's being remembered very consequential and moving.
    Every November I shove a £10 in a collecting tin at the station, take the poppy, but don’t wear it. Pick the bones out of that one. It’s something I’ve always done.
    Yeah, I'm the same (except not it's online donation and I don't even take the poppy).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    The bookmakers seem to have got the message. For example anyone fancying Spurs to win 2-0 can be accommodated at a snappy 55/1.

    I am not filled with hope that our North London friends will do their duty and massacre City on this special occasion. (Spurs 4-1 at 125/1 anyone?)
    If Villa lose tonight Spurs are still playing for top 4. That should put a firework up their arse.
    Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. Proverbs 13.12.
    I think the odds are about right. We have a 2 in 7 chance.

    But yes - it's best to assume the 5 in 7 chance is what will happen.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    J.D. Vance, in the Mix to Be Trump’s Running Mate, Denounces Witness

    Mr. Vance’s appearance in court could signal a new frontier in the auditions to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate. He and other Trump allies went after Michael D. Cohen.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/13/nyregion/jd-vance-trump-vp.html
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Wrong season guys.

    Arguments about poppies kick off every year on 1st November.

    It's May. We should be moaning about how shit the weather is/how hot it is or how expensive/crap the festivals are instead.

    Maypoles. Strong correlation between their prevalence and the national birth rate. We need an RCT to prove beyond doubt, but the evidence is clear.

    The lack of maypoles is leading to a fertility crisis and an ageing population :cry:

    (Lack of) Fucking disgrace
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    Death cult? Moi??

    I just like to switch it up, given as I travel constantly and for a job. If you were a restaurant critic wouid you like to eat French classics and crème brulee every fucking night? No. You’d want challenging and interesting things. As the official Jay Rayner of Place I like to eat Food with Noom

    But here’s something lighter that might please your unrefined new world palate

    What is this and why is it here?




    Big fat clue: Dean Martin (real name: Dino Martini)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    Death cult? Moi??

    I just like to switch it up, given as I travel constantly and for a job. If you were a restaurant critic wouid you like to eat French classics and crème brulee every fucking night? No. You’d want challenging and interesting things. As the official Jay Rayner of Place I like to eat Food with Noom

    But here’s something lighter that might please your unrefined new world palate

    What is this and why is it here?




    Big fat clue: Dean Martin (real name: Dino Martini)
    Montesilvano?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    Death cult? Moi??

    I just like to switch it up, given as I travel constantly and for a job. If you were a restaurant critic wouid you like to eat French classics and crème brulee every fucking night? No. You’d want challenging and interesting things. As the official Jay Rayner of Place I like to eat Food with Noom

    But here’s something lighter that might please your unrefined new world palate

    What is this and why is it here?




    Big fat clue: Dean Martin (real name: Dino Martini)
    Montesilvano?
    Eh no

    Another clue: Eurovision
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,286
    Goddamn you Italy. Even when you’re annoyingly touristy you manage to be beautiful



  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    I was a member of the Labour Party in my younger years. But when I realised they weren’t really interested in my opinions, there weren’t lots of nice girls to meet and they just wanted me to go out and put leaflets through doors in the local hood I left.
    Why weren't they interested in your opinions?
    It was the mid eighties and the CLP I was a member of certainly seemed to want to be a talking shop of what working class people should want. My Grandad on my moms side was a working class Tory. For example he was seen as voting against his own interests rather than wanting to understand why. It was very unilateralist. I believed, still do, in a deterrent. I got the impression newer, younger, members were there to do the donkey work.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    “community as a whole” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that argument. What you’re basically saying is that “no one thinks it’s political so it isn’t”. In at least one constituent part of the United Kingdom the wearing of a poppy is as politically charged a statement as they come.
    Social imaginaries are communal but not universal - NI is not England. Texas is not New York. My opinion is that in the community I know and live in the red poppy is not seen to be political; the category it belongs to in attitudinal terms is more like weddings, funerals, parties, childbirth, RNLI, the British Heart Foundation, or the local football team. What Professor Stephen Clark would call a prepolitical institution.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,414
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    Not wearing one can also be kind of a political statement. Not necessarily of anything specific but in general. Eg I don't wear one and it's a choice I make, it's not that I forget or cannot be bothered. Why? I'm not totally sure but it just feels right for me to be unadorned with poppy during the remembrance period, even though I find much if what's being remembered very consequential and moving.
    Every November I shove a £10 in a collecting tin at the station, take the poppy, but don’t wear it. Pick the bones out of that one. It’s something I’ve always done.
    The polar opposite is probably having one of those giant ones on the front of your car, typically a Range Rover, all year round as some here are wont to do.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Rishi needs to major on Curry-Gate. Say: 'We've already had one lockdown breaker in Number Ten in the form of Boris and look where that got us. Do we really want to inflict another one on ourselves with this Starmer guy?' The beauty here is that it distances Rishi from the era of Boris's misrule whilst also portraying Sir Keir as Boris's heir. But does Rishi have the chutzpah to go for it?

    Nah, 1) that was well in the past, 2) it highlights Johnson and reminds people that Sunak probably stabbed him in the back and 3) Sunak himself probably broke the rules too and if that time comes back in the spotlight he'll have to deal with the findings of the Covid Enquiry which suggest Eat out to Help out killed people and treasury didn't care as long as people spent money.

    Voters want to forget lockdown ever happened, not be reminded of it. Being the person to remind them of it, even to make a point in his favour, will make people dislike Sunak even more. I think his only real point of attack is the points he is currently making - that SKS doesn't believe in anything and has no real plans for government - but he fails at this because his government is a group of tired idiots with no plans and he is also clearly just a power hungry bastard too. If the messenger was different and he was better at giving the message, I think the Tories could paint SKS as an empty suit. But it rings hollow atm.
    BIB - I did't think the Covid inquiry had reported yet? EOTHO has been linked to an increase in cases in papers and the implication is more cases = more deaths. However at the same time we were importing many more new cases from the continent as we had resumed travel. Like so much of the pandemic it was a trade off. You could keep printing magic money to keep business going while shut for ever, but economically there will be a reckoning. As there is, in fact, now.

    But you are right. Go out, eat in a restaurant, go to the cinema, go to a play, or the football. Normal life returned and most people don't want to think about those times again.

    Mistakes were made all round. Sadly the Inquiry in traditional British style has been portrayed in the meida far too often as a trial of those in power, rather than a genuine attempt to learn. I hope the report, when it emerges, is more of the latter than the former.
    Mrs P. has just thrown out a whole collection of masks she made during the early lock-down days "We'll not be needing these again, thank Christ".
    Too early! Twitter is awash with the next bird flu pandemic!

    But, yes, I whole heartedly agree. And yet - I am heading to the Discworld convention in August and they are still (as far as I know) planning on asking everyone to mask. Madness.
    That is absurd. Beyond madness, psychopathic. Plus 2x LFT tests (and where the fuck do you get those from these days).

    This is what our anti-Covid measures have bequeathed us.

    https://dwcon.org/useful-information/rules-policies/covid-19-policy/
    Individual Covid LFTs are £1.75 from Boots. Flu A/B LFTs are £2.50 / test.

    Is it really that much of an imposition to ask people to test for a very infectious disease before attending a mass gathering?
    For whatever reason, testing didn't seem like a particularly effective method of controlling spread.

    People would be better off insisting that venues installed air filtration, and only using venues that did so.
    There's a question...

    What did we actually learn during the pestilence that has been usefully continued on the other side?

    Hybrid working and some video conferencing, I guess.

    MRNA vaccines, which will likely change the dynamics completely if something like this comes up again- the know how is all there.

    But air filtration, which looks like a pretty effective way of reducing the flu surge we get most winters... We don't (collectively) seem to have bothered.
    We’ve learned a few things about what not to do in a future pandemic.

    But more widely? Not so much.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    I've had my hake steak. I'm pretty sure the legumes oubliés were swede and carrot. It was delicious. The hake was perfectly cooked, not a single bit was at all dry

    I've ordered Gateau Basque Cerise and another glass of Patxaran for dessert


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    GIN1138 said:

    Who else would love to see @Leon and @BlancheLivermore elope and travel the world together??? :D

    With @IanB2.

    Like Ramsay, D’Acampo and Fred Sybian.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
    Was our Esther actually proposing to ban them, like some Europeans ban headscarves, or having a moan about them. Good luck trying to institute a ban, if that’s the plan.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    I was a member of the Labour Party in my younger years. But when I realised they weren’t really interested in my opinions, there weren’t lots of nice girls to meet and they just wanted me to go out and put leaflets through doors in the local hood I left.
    Why weren't they interested in your opinions?
    It was the mid eighties and the CLP I was a member of certainly seemed to want to be a talking shop of what working class people should want. My Grandad on my moms side was a working class Tory. For example he was seen as voting against his own interests rather than wanting to understand why. It was very unilateralist. I believed, still do, in a deterrent. I got the impression newer, younger, members were there to do the donkey work.
    That's true of all parties, my friend.

    When I returned from being a Liberal activist at University to my home constituency, I was astonished to find how much political discussion there was and how little active work. I soon changed that and got them out delivering and knocking on doors.

    I even put together Focus leaflets having found out one of the members in the next constituency was a printer and typesetter by trade - this was pre-computers but I soon learned the basics and when we found one of our deliverers had a lithograph printer, that took care of the small leaflet runs for the local issues.

    I can still smell the ink....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    megasaur said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Remembrance day services are an assertion of what Wilfred Owen called the old lie. I think we can be pretty certain he would not have worn a poppy. And the whole idea is built upon In Flanders Fields, an explicitly anti negotiated peace, pro war poem which Owen would not have written.
    No they are not assertions of Horace's 'Old lie'. That is originalism - the idea that how a thing is now depends upon a particular set of attitudes long ago with which there is a continuity and are not allowed to develop. Fundamentalisms tend to rely on that sort of myth.

    Owen is heard and read more today than John McCrae. There are good reasons for that.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    I've found myself in what promises to be a rather nice restaurant this evening, called Chistera et Coquillages

    They have, unfortunately, run out of their smoked anchovies; the menu claims that they're the best in the world. As I said to the lovely waiter, an easy claim to make when you've got none left!

    So instead I've gone for six of their finest oysters (Ostra Régal Numero Trois), followed by a hake steak with shellfish cream and 'forgotten vegetables'

    The oysters have arrived!


    Your travelogue and food-a-logue is a sustained celebration of life. (In marked contrast to death-cult postings of PB peripathetic correspondent.)

    Seeing as how this is (ostensibly) a political blog AND that you are constantly wearing out your footwear (either for business and/or pleasure) am reminded of Adlai Stevenson's famous holey shoe from 1952 POTUS campaign. As in headline "Adlai Bares His Sole":

    https://www.pulitzer.org/article/photographer-common-touch
    Death cult? Moi??

    I just like to switch it up, given as I travel constantly and for a job. If you were a restaurant critic wouid you like to eat French classics and crème brulee every fucking night? No. You’d want challenging and interesting things. As the official Jay Rayner of Place I like to eat Food with Noom

    But here’s something lighter that might please your unrefined new world palate

    What is this and why is it here?




    Big fat clue: Dean Martin (real name: Dino Martini)
    Morecambe, with the statue of Eric Morcambe, Dean Martin’s inspiration. It’s looking surprisingly continental for coastal Lancashire.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
    Was our Esther actually proposing to ban them, like some Europeans ban headscarves, or having a moan about them. Good luck trying to institute a ban, if that’s the plan.
    Every time I see a rainbow like image I think of Noah's Ark. Does anyone know whether this government thinks this should be compulsory or forbidden?
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    I've had my hake steak. I'm pretty sure the legumes oubliés were swede and carrot. It was delicious. The hake was perfectly cooked, not a single bit was at all dry

    I've ordered Gateau Basque Cerise and another glass of Patxaran for dessert


    If they were oubliés how could you know anything about them, or is this a sophisticated french idiom of which I am embarrassingly unaware?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Aston Villa goalkeeper scores the funniest goal of the season
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Selebian said:

    Wrong season guys.

    Arguments about poppies kick off every year on 1st November.

    It's May. We should be moaning about how shit the weather is/how hot it is or how expensive/crap the festivals are instead.

    Maypoles. Strong correlation between their prevalence and the national birth rate. We need an RCT to prove beyond doubt, but the evidence is clear.

    The lack of maypoles is leading to a fertility crisis and an ageing population :cry:

    (Lack of) Fucking disgrace
    In May 1660 Pepys records that maypoles are being set up in Deal (he is offshore on board ship) for the first time for years as they have realised the king is coming back and the bad old days of the puritan ban are over. Didn't do Pepys any good though, he died childless, though not for want of trying.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    What is political about a poppy, it is purely a rememberance of all people killed in a war, no pretending or trying to get one over anyone else , purely remembrance.
    I always buy one and wear it for exactly that. It is not political. It is an act of remembrance for the fallen.
    Obviously not a Green Party member.

    "White poppies represent remembrance for all victims of war of all nationalities, a commitment to peace and a rejection of militarism."

    I think that is a political position.

    https://www.ppu.org.uk/news/green-party-co-leader-endorses-white-poppy-campaign

    (Not sure if it is current, that said.)
    I was a member of the Labour Party in my younger years. But when I realised they weren’t really interested in my opinions, there weren’t lots of nice girls to meet and they just wanted me to go out and put leaflets through doors in the local hood I left.
    Why weren't they interested in your opinions?
    It was the mid eighties and the CLP I was a member of certainly seemed to want to be a talking shop of what working class people should want. My Grandad on my moms side was a working class Tory. For example he was seen as voting against his own interests rather than wanting to understand why. It was very unilateralist. I believed, still do, in a deterrent. I got the impression newer, younger, members were there to do the donkey work.
    I spent some time with Camden Labour Association in the middle 1980s. Imagine every inner London socialist stereotype and it was there. Many of the sensible ones had f***** off to the SDP and we were mid Miners 's strike. In Cardiff North the atmosphere was far less febrile.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    edited May 13
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
    Was our Esther actually proposing to ban them, like some Europeans ban headscarves, or having a moan about them. Good luck trying to institute a ban, if that’s the plan.
    Every time I see a rainbow like image I think of Noah's Ark. Does anyone know whether this government thinks this should be compulsory or forbidden?
    You are subconsciously punning about the arc of the covenant.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting :

    Staying off FB/Insta just before the 2020 election had little to no effect on political views, neg opinions of opposing parties, or beliefs in election fraud claims. Those off FB were worse at answering news quizzes, but less likely to fall for misinfo.

    https://x.com/benryanwriter/status/1790094665775034857

    People aren't as gullible as those who decry their views believe.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    Only one of them's been elected and re-elected as a Labour MP, and only one of them is standing again.

    And it's not the one SKS has spoken to or visited in Kent.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Looks like 78% of Trump supporters are unlikely to support jail time for him regardless of any conviction, however the 10% who are could swing the election.

    It will also take Cohen keeping his outspoken persona in check to really make a difference in the trial
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    isam said:

    A Spurs fan tweets about the Woolwich.

    I want us to lose so badly on Tuesday that we get an Arsenal club statement afterwards about them reporting us for match fixing

    https://twitter.com/xAlexTHFC/status/1789716932611936606

    If the roles were reversed I’d be cheering Arsenal to lose, but I can’t believe the Tottenham players would give up the chance of 4th because the fans hate Arsenal
    I'd never want Arsenal to lose. It's such a small club mentality from some Tottenham fans.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Wrong season guys.

    Arguments about poppies kick off every year on 1st November.

    It's May. We should be moaning about how shit the weather is/how hot it is or how expensive/crap the festivals are instead.

    Maypoles. Strong correlation between their prevalence and the national birth rate. We need an RCT to prove beyond doubt, but the evidence is clear.

    The lack of maypoles is leading to a fertility crisis and an ageing population :cry:

    (Lack of) Fucking disgrace
    In May 1660 Pepys records that maypoles are being set up in Deal (he is offshore on board ship) for the first time for years as they have realised the king is coming back and the bad old days of the puritan ban are over. Didn't do Pepys any good though, he died childless, though not for want of trying.
    He enjoyed his amatory encounters "in my armour" ie a leather condom - mainly as a prophylactic against the pox but presumably with a contraceptive effect on the side
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    It would nonetheless be nice if Starmer were to hold an olive branch out to Rosie.

    It doesn't seem that long ago that the chattering classes were all over Duffield and Graham Stringer being Tory bound.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 13
    Me and my rainbow lanyard, eh?
    I wear one because it enables easy access for my key to lock up their mobile phones in the strongbox.
    There are strict rules about the colours of lanyards. Blue is for staff. Green supply. Red denotes non DBS visitor who can't be left alone.
    My standard issue blue one isn't long enough to reach the lock without taking it off. So I have two. For now...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    It would nonetheless be nice if Starmer were to hold an olive branch out to Rosie.

    It doesn't seem that long ago that the chattering classes were all over Duffield and Graham Stringer being Tory bound.
    She does seem to be his least favourite Labourite. I'd be cauterizing every wound if I were him. Leave no avenue of discontent open
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    .
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:


    algarkirk said:

    148grss said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:
    Should not be making political statements in the workplace, not acceptable.
    Ban all poppies in the office come November - that's a political statement.
    I suggest that there is nothing whatever about wearing a poppy in November that is political in any sense at all; to wear one, or not, is open to every individual without any ideological test or commitment required or indicated.
    The poppy has always been political. To buy and wear the red poppy is to associate oneself with over a century of war remembrance, activity which has always been (and remains) “political”. The poppy commemorates people who died as a result of political decisions made by the British state. No society can remember its wars and mourn its dead without ascribing to the violence and victims a meaning. The symbols a society duly produces – including the red poppy and the Easter lily - carry an
    implicit “politics”. It’s unavoidable.
    I'll try to explain this point to my German friend, he is a much loved NHS doctor, who plays the Last Post each year at a local Remembrance Sunday occasion.

    We may be meaning subtly different things by 'political'. Poppy wearing, or not, tells you nothing at all about the personal meanings ascribed by individuals to what they do. These will vary. This one from Wilfred Owen keeps recurring for me (It's in Britten's War Requiem too):

    So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
    And took the fire with him, and a knife.
    And as they sojourned both of them together,
    Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
    Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
    But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
    Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
    and builded parapets and trenches there,
    And stretchèd forth the knife to slay his son.
    When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
    Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
    Neither do anything to him. Behold,
    A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
    Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.

    But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
    And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
    Your German friend can wear the poppy if he wants. He’s still making a political point. I don’t wear Easter Lilies to commemorate Irish Republican dead. By not doing so I’m making political point. I could wear one in November as a personal reflection on the dead of all wars but people will say I’m making a political point. Which I would be. Same with a white poppy. The red poppy is not above politics. It’s just another symbol like AIDS ribbons, taking the knee and, yes, rainbow lanyards.
    Good luck with that argument. Each perspective here is what our sociology friends call a Social Imaginary. As long as the community as a whole thinks that wearing a poppy or not wearing a poppy is not a political act, then that is so. It has never once occurred to me that the action of wearing one or not doing so, has a political point or is a political act. The point is now taken.
    Wearing a rainbow lanyard could be the same, no? Most of my colleagues who wear one in my office probably are gay. I wear one because I like the colours. Overall probably about the same number as wear poppies in November, which is definitely a minority. I don't think any of us poppy or rainbow lanyard wearers think we're making a political statement.
    Was our Esther actually proposing to ban them, like some Europeans ban headscarves, or having a moan about them. Good luck trying to institute a ban, if that’s the plan.
    Every time I see a rainbow like image I think of Noah's Ark. Does anyone know whether this government thinks this should be compulsory or forbidden?
    I think the rainbow flag is the single most brilliant branding ever devised. It's cheerful, it's ubiquitous and everyone from anarchists to big capitalist institutions - but not Esther McVey it seems - is happy to be associated with it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    isam said:

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    She has been sniping about it on X from day one
    Yes but whip removal is a new demand
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Rosie Duffield waiting a respectful 5 days before calling for the whip to be removed from Elphicke.
    Kent on Kent action in the PLP.
    In isolation not really a major Starmer drama but if others join her a bit more problematic

    It would nonetheless be nice if Starmer were to hold an olive branch out to Rosie.

    It doesn't seem that long ago that the chattering classes were all over Duffield and Graham Stringer being Tory bound.
    She does seem to be his least favourite Labourite. I'd be cauterizing every wound if I were him. Leave no avenue of discontent open
    Yes, not sure what it is about her that seems to get his goat. She’s been very critical, but so have several others. Perhaps the fact she’s not a Corbynite or part of a faction, so harder to dismiss.
This discussion has been closed.