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Has Rayner cost Labour the votes of short men? – politicalbetting.com

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  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    Trouble is, this is entirely untrue. Klarna recently AI’d many of their call centre jobs and discovered that not only did they save loads of money, 1. The AI was more efficient than humans and 2. Surveys reported greater customer satisfaction

    “Klarna’s AI Assistant Does the Job of 700 Customer Service Agents”

    “When you think of positive customer service experiences, AI definitely isn’t what comes to mind. But Klarna might be changing that”

    https://blog.hubspot.com/ai/klarna-ai-assistant

    Chatbots are getting seriously good, and they are far smarter than a nice 97 IQ woman working in Dundee with an accent so thick (however pleasant) you can’t understand every third word

    Moreover, the menace gets worse: studies shows that humans consistently prefer to interact with AI rather than other humans, even if they are told, indeed if they are told it often improves things. You can’t offend a machine, it has no feelings

    Also, people prefer AI photos to real photos of “real people” and people are happier taking orders from AI than humans (the latter I have actually experienced for myself)
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    Just to pick up on the discussion on the Labour rail announcement, seems like a bit of a non story, if excellent politics for Labour. From what I can tell its the governments current GBR policy given some left wing spin.

    Bear in mind that NR is effectively nationalised anyway and has been for years, the DfT micromanages the franchises, and from what I can tell pay negotiations go through government too.

    The industry has a severe lack of strategic direction, which GBR is designed to resolve by absorbing civil servents from the DfT, bits of NR, and the TOCs into an arms length body. They could have gone all in and named it BR (maybe labour will?) but at any rate the benefits from this guiding mind could be immense.

    The main risk I see is the lack of commercial discipline from the franchises leading to crappy operational performance and the unions running riot. GBR would be wise to keep a few tame TOCs to run routes under consession agreements and act as benchmarks.

    Suggest too difficult to put the ROSCO toothpaste back in the tube without purchasing the entire fleet using borrowing. GBR could always use their newfound purchasing power to bear down on leasing fees, potentially negotiating one off purchases of fleets on the cheap, or just gradually bringing new orders into public ownership. Not sure why that should be priority though, that's one bit of privatisation that has generally been considered successful.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    The article is about India, it speculates that millions will soon lose their jobs in India - and the Philippines, this is a real thing and it’s going to be highly painful

    However this is also a UK issue, for Labour

    1. How many call centre jobs have been re-shored to the UK? A lot, I imagine. I often hear nice British regional accents when I finally get through

    2. It really really isn’t going to stop with “call centre jobs”, they are the low-hanging fruit; it will move on to nicer jobs. This is why I hear ministers waffling on about Britain’s great creative sector and how to boost it. The question should be, what bits will be left after AI has laid waste the landscape?

    is anyone in the coming Labour government even thinking about this, let alone talking about it?
    Just remember Leon, your call is important to them and they are suffering exceptionally high call numbers, whatever the time of day or night.

    AI that could actually answer enough calls simultaneously just might be an improvement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    Music is music.

    Listen to a few episodes of Add to Playlist, and educate yourself.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    There have been orchestra's playing the theme to Gerry Anderson TV series and also Dr Who incidental music.

    Also under the guise of "mission to engage new audiences in classical music"

    I actually went to the Utilita in Newcastle to see the Dr Who one, it was pretty good but not a classical music event.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited April 25
    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Cyclefree said:

    I rather like red hair.

    There. That's politics for today sorted.

    Off to London shortly as am going to Sandown for the racing on Saturday and to Ham House on Sunday for a concert and many other delights.

    Sadly I will miss Van Den Bogerd's testimony at the PO Inquiry today. Vennells' hatchet-faced enforcer and a witness described by Mr Justice Fraser thus -

    'in future he would accept what she said ONLY if it was ‘clearly and incontrovertibly corroborated by contemporaneous documents’.

    This is the judicial equivalent of "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire".

    Interesting tidbit in the evidence of Chris Aujard yesterday: when the PO decided to wind up the mediation scheme they needed to get the Minister's approval. It's the first reference I've seen to a Minister getting involved in a PO decision and rather gives the lie to the "arms length" claim. I wonder if this will be picked up later when the relevant Minister gives evidence.

    Van Den Bogerd was portrayed even less favourably than Vennells in the TV drama documentary about the Post Office scandal.

    I wonder if she will be afflicted by the same amnesia many of the other people giving evidence have had.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    SNP leadership hopeful Humza Yousaf has said his party cannot afford to risk a minority government amid concerns over the future of the powersharing agreement with the Scottish Greens.

    The Health Secretary – who will find out on Monday if he has beaten Kate Forbes and Ash Regan to replace Nicola Sturgeon as party leader and first minister – said any move away from the Bute House agreement would “destabilise” the Scottish Government.

    It comes as the Greens sent a strong signal that they may not work with Ms Forbes if she is elected as Scotland’s next leader.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/humza-yousaf-snp-greens-health-secretary-scottish-b2307955.html

    The tail trying to wag the dog.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    There have been orchestra's playing the theme to Gerry Anderson TV series and also Dr Who incidental music.

    Also under the guise of "mission to engage new audiences in classical music"

    I actually went to the Utilita in Newcastle to see the Dr Who one, it was pretty good but not a classical music event.
    Robert Newman, in 1894.
    "I am going to run nightly concerts and train the public by easy stages. Popular at first, gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music..."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    The article is about India, it speculates that millions will soon lose their jobs in India - and the Philippines, this is a real thing and it’s going to be highly painful

    However this is also a UK issue, for Labour

    1. How many call centre jobs have been re-shored to the UK? A lot, I imagine. I often hear nice British regional accents when I finally get through

    2. It really really isn’t going to stop with “call centre jobs”, they are the low-hanging fruit; it will move on to nicer jobs. This is why I hear ministers waffling on about Britain’s great creative sector and how to boost it. The question should be, what bits will be left after AI has laid waste the landscape?

    is anyone in the coming Labour government even thinking about this, let alone talking about it?
    Just remember Leon, your call is important to them and they are suffering exceptionally high call numbers, whatever the time of day or night.

    AI that could actually answer enough calls simultaneously just might be an improvement.
    Exactly

    AI call centres mean that your call will be answered immediately, and dealt with better (as the Klarna experience shows). AI is superior at this, and so much cheaper - meaning the business can focus its resources elsewhere

    So that’s a massive gain in productivity for the customer, and the business, just a shame for the 800,000 people working in call centres in the UK

    We could see unemployment of 10-20% this decade
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited April 25

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    And as I said utterly childish and just adds to the dislike of politicians

    I would have thought SNP and Greens abandoning their power sharing is far more important to you
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    There was me thinking that the Greens were making a stand on a point of principle over Net Zero.

    Turns out it is connected to trans shit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    Looks like Humza Yousaf isn’t going to wait for the Scottish Greens to decide if they still want to be part of his government. Cabinet to meet in the next hour…

    The Bute House Agreement seems about to break

    https://twitter.com/PGourtsoyannis/status/1783382183937266072

    Hard to believe that clown could make a sensible decision.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Nigelb said:

    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    Music is music.

    Listen to a few episodes of Add to Playlist, and educate yourself.
    Nothing against any form of music in its proper environment. I wouldn’t go to a Chinese restaurant and expect to find Indian food. And I would not try to engage people in the delights of Italian cuisine by giving them fish and chips lightly dusted with Parmesan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Giuliani, Meadows charged in Arizona ‘fake elector’ indictment
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4619593-giuliani-meadows-indicted-on-arizona-fake-elector-charges/
    An Arizona grand jury handed up felony charges against Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows and other prominent Trump allies for allegedly attempting to prevent the lawful transfer of power from then-President Trump to Joe Biden.

    Seven Trump aides were charged alongside 11 pro-Trump Arizona Republicans who signed documents purporting to be the state’s valid electors in 2020.

    The former president himself is not charged but is listed as an unindicted co-conspirator...

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Taz said:

    SNP leadership hopeful Humza Yousaf has said his party cannot afford to risk a minority government amid concerns over the future of the powersharing agreement with the Scottish Greens.

    The Health Secretary – who will find out on Monday if he has beaten Kate Forbes and Ash Regan to replace Nicola Sturgeon as party leader and first minister – said any move away from the Bute House agreement would “destabilise” the Scottish Government.

    It comes as the Greens sent a strong signal that they may not work with Ms Forbes if she is elected as Scotland’s next leader.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/humza-yousaf-snp-greens-health-secretary-scottish-b2307955.html

    The tail trying to wag the dog.
    The thing is Yousaf was saying exactly the same at the beginning of this week. If his cabinet is overriding him on this it really demonstrates how weak his position is.


    The whole thing has something of a teenage spat about it. The SNP want to break up with the Greens before the Greens break up with them.

    The next test for Yousaf will be whether nonsense like rejecting Cass and support for Sandyford goes with them. Once again Yousaf is heavily, personally invested and faces humiliation if this goes. Even parts of their new Criminal Justice bill might be ditched.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    There was me thinking that the Greens were making a stand on a point of principle over Net Zero.

    Turns out it is connected to trans shit.
    I'm struggling to think what the Scottish government actually stands for. Other than failing to deliver independence and declining the economy and social fabric of Scotland at a slightly slower rate than England.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    The more I read some of the comments on here, the more I giggle. That lank stream of yawn is Deputy Prime Minister. He was barely able to even read the scripted answers in a strangled high-pitched voice which showed how nervous he was. Never mind what someone who is DPM needs to be able to do - react.

    Did he - at any point - show the slightest ability to actually listen to what was being said, think *I'll thrown this back at her* and then do so? Rayner seems to be upsetting some cancel warriors because she might become DPM.

    Dowden *is* DPM. Shouldn't you be more worried about that?

    He sounded fine on the radio to me. Unlike Rayner, who stumbled over words on a few occasions.

    Yep, I don't think Rayner was all that brilliant in the Commons yesterday. She is not a fluent speaker. That said, I thought Dowden was pretty poor too. His voice is too high-pitched for Parliamentary cut and thrust.

    I'm not a massive Rayner fan. And she's been somewhat flip-floppy with her positioning between the moderates and the Corbynite loons. But she clearly does have cut through with an enormous number of voters in a way that Starmer doesn't. And no Tory other than Boris can manage it either.
    Same. She really behaved very poorly on antisemitism. I doubt it's so much cut-through as all parties needing outriders who can put their more abrasive messages into the ether and also rally support while leaders stay slightly above the fray, and focus on looking Prime Ministerial.

    The Tories tried it with Lee Anderson and now Ric Holden. The problem being they're either way off the reservation and attacked their own party or rubbish at it. Rayner though is very effective as mixes her ability to court controversy with a degree of discipline and loyalty to party.

    The Sunak 'pint-sized' jibe is a good example. It's not big (literally), or clever. But it does hugely reinforce the idea Labour is trying to establish that Sunak is a weak leader who is bullied by his own party and dwarfed by events.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    Trouble is, this is entirely untrue. Klarna recently AI’d many of their call centre jobs and discovered that not only did they save loads of money, 1. The AI was more efficient than humans and 2. Surveys reported greater customer satisfaction

    “Klarna’s AI Assistant Does the Job of 700 Customer Service Agents”

    “When you think of positive customer service experiences, AI definitely isn’t what comes to mind. But Klarna might be changing that”

    https://blog.hubspot.com/ai/klarna-ai-assistant

    Chatbots are getting seriously good, and they are far smarter than a nice 97 IQ woman working in Dundee with an accent so thick (however pleasant) you can’t understand every third word

    Moreover, the menace gets worse: studies shows that humans consistently prefer to interact with AI rather than other humans, even if they are told, indeed if they are told it often improves things. You can’t offend a machine, it has no feelings

    Also, people prefer AI photos to real photos of “real people” and people are happier taking orders from AI than humans (the latter I have actually experienced for myself)
    Personally I cannot wait to get past the bots and reach a human who can think. The fecking bots go round and round and drive you crazy.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Lots of pearls being clutched today by our right-leaning friends, their delicate constitutions grievously shaken by the language used by that uppity working-class woman. That kind of language is good for below stairs but shouldn’t befoul the refined air of better, more sophisticated nice middle-class folks. How very unparliamentary.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    ToryJim said:

    Nigelb said:

    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    Music is music.

    Listen to a few episodes of Add to Playlist, and educate yourself.
    Nothing against any form of music in its proper environment. I wouldn’t go to a Chinese restaurant and expect to find Indian food. And I would not try to engage people in the delights of Italian cuisine by giving them fish and chips lightly dusted with Parmesan.
    Exploration and serendipity is the spirit of the proms. And at a cursory glance, it looks like there are going to be some fantastic concerts this year. I will definitely want to get along to the West East Divan Orchestra with Anne Sophie Mutter on 11 August - just hope that Daniel Barenboim is well enough to conduct.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    The same posters droning on about "pint sized losers" were defending Johnson's right to associate Starmer with the crimes of Jimmy Savile during an earlier PMQs.

    I agreed with them, all is fair in politics, but then I'm not crying foul when Rayner quotes Dorries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    ToryJim said:

    Nigelb said:

    ToryJim said:

    OT - What Sam Smith or Florence + The Machine have to do with Classical Music is anybody’s guess.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99z19ygvy5o

    I wish the powers that be would realise that just because an orchestra plays it doesn’t make the music Classical.

    I see from the piece that it is “BBC Radio 3's mission to engage new audiences in classical music.” It’s probably doesn’t make it easier to achieve this aim if you throw over increasing parts of the festival to non-Classical Music.

    Music is music.

    Listen to a few episodes of Add to Playlist, and educate yourself.
    Nothing against any form of music in its proper environment. I wouldn’t go to a Chinese restaurant and expect to find Indian food. And I would not try to engage people in the delights of Italian cuisine by giving them fish and chips lightly dusted with Parmesan.
    If you were at a world food festival - a more accurate analogy - then you would have no such expectations.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    Taz said:

    SNP leadership hopeful Humza Yousaf has said his party cannot afford to risk a minority government amid concerns over the future of the powersharing agreement with the Scottish Greens.

    The Health Secretary – who will find out on Monday if he has beaten Kate Forbes and Ash Regan to replace Nicola Sturgeon as party leader and first minister – said any move away from the Bute House agreement would “destabilise” the Scottish Government.

    It comes as the Greens sent a strong signal that they may not work with Ms Forbes if she is elected as Scotland’s next leader.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/humza-yousaf-snp-greens-health-secretary-scottish-b2307955.html

    The tail trying to wag the dog.
    dumb dumber and dumbest, you could not make it up. Not a cigarette paper between them.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    I would say, and this is only anecdotal , that the trend in recent years has been for call centres to be onshored again as businesses found that off shore centres were costing them business with quality and control issues. The only examples I can recall in recent times are some of the larger international hotel groups. Tesco's for example, are now a large employer here in Dundee where their call centre is based.
    Tesco Dundee, which was the HQ of Willie Low before they were taken over by Tesco. Which brings us back to Rishi Sunak and Angela Rayner.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    The article is about India, it speculates that millions will soon lose their jobs in India - and the Philippines, this is a real thing and it’s going to be highly painful

    However this is also a UK issue, for Labour

    1. How many call centre jobs have been re-shored to the UK? A lot, I imagine. I often hear nice British regional accents when I finally get through

    2. It really really isn’t going to stop with “call centre jobs”, they are the low-hanging fruit; it will move on to nicer jobs. This is why I hear ministers waffling on about Britain’s great creative sector and how to boost it. The question should be, what bits will be left after AI has laid waste the landscape?

    is anyone in the coming Labour government even thinking about this, let alone talking about it?
    Just remember Leon, your call is important to them and they are suffering exceptionally high call numbers, whatever the time of day or night.

    AI that could actually answer enough calls simultaneously just might be an improvement.
    Exactly

    AI call centres mean that your call will be answered immediately, and dealt with better (as the Klarna experience shows). AI is superior at this, and so much cheaper - meaning the business can focus its resources elsewhere

    So that’s a massive gain in productivity for the customer, and the business, just a shame for the 800,000 people working in call centres in the UK

    We could see unemployment of 10-20% this decade
    Weren't all the taxi drivers supposed to be out of jobs by now with the advent of self-driving cars?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    There was me thinking that the Greens were making a stand on a point of principle over Net Zero.

    Turns out it is connected to trans shit.
    I'm struggling to think what the Scottish government actually stands for. Other than failing to deliver independence and declining the economy and social fabric of Scotland at a slightly slower rate than England.
    Enduring it declines at a slower rate than England is a decent achievement if you compare with Wales/ Northern Ireland
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
    Again, look at offshoring. We used to worry that accountancy and law jobs would be offshored, even medicine for things like reading scans. Some were, most weren't.

    AI will doubtless cost some jobs. It will also create new ones. What it will mostly do is open up services for those who cannot currently afford them. You could employ AI to draw cartoons for your Gazette columns. That has not cost any cartoonist their job. Only when the Telegraph replaces Matt will a cartoonist lose his job. Likewise you could have AI translate your AI-cartoon captions into French or Japanese, but again no humans have lost their jobs. Forget AI. Have you cost a photographer his job by taking your own travel snaps for the Gazette, or would they not have sent one anyway?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    Trouble is, this is entirely untrue. Klarna recently AI’d many of their call centre jobs and discovered that not only did they save loads of money, 1. The AI was more efficient than humans and 2. Surveys reported greater customer satisfaction

    “Klarna’s AI Assistant Does the Job of 700 Customer Service Agents”

    “When you think of positive customer service experiences, AI definitely isn’t what comes to mind. But Klarna might be changing that”

    https://blog.hubspot.com/ai/klarna-ai-assistant

    Chatbots are getting seriously good, and they are far smarter than a nice 97 IQ woman working in Dundee with an accent so thick (however pleasant) you can’t understand every third word

    Moreover, the menace gets worse: studies shows that humans consistently prefer to interact with AI rather than other humans, even if they are told, indeed if they are told it often improves things. You can’t offend a machine, it has no feelings

    Also, people prefer AI photos to real photos of “real people” and people are happier taking orders from AI than humans (the latter I have actually experienced for myself)
    Personally I cannot wait to get past the bots and reach a human who can think. The fecking bots go round and round and drive you crazy.
    But you’re talking to terrible chatbots from 2018. These companies have not updated to the new tech

    The latest tech is superb. You can’t tell the difference from a human except the AI is better at handling your call - and handles 1000 calls simultaneously. See the report from Klarna - AI is BETTER

    What’s more, I bet some dodgy companies will lie. They will promise to “put you through to a human” but what you will actually get is a specially friendly AI with a Dundonian accent - and you won’t know the difference

    Why do people find this stuff so hard to work out?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    Trouble is, this is entirely untrue. Klarna recently AI’d many of their call centre jobs and discovered that not only did they save loads of money, 1. The AI was more efficient than humans and 2. Surveys reported greater customer satisfaction

    “Klarna’s AI Assistant Does the Job of 700 Customer Service Agents”

    “When you think of positive customer service experiences, AI definitely isn’t what comes to mind. But Klarna might be changing that”

    https://blog.hubspot.com/ai/klarna-ai-assistant

    Chatbots are getting seriously good, and they are far smarter than a nice 97 IQ woman working in Dundee with an accent so thick (however pleasant) you can’t understand every third word

    Moreover, the menace gets worse: studies shows that humans consistently prefer to interact with AI rather than other humans, even if they are told, indeed if they are told it often improves things. You can’t offend a machine, it has no feelings

    Also, people prefer AI photos to real photos of “real people” and people are happier taking orders from AI than humans (the latter I have actually experienced for myself)
    Personally I cannot wait to get past the bots and reach a human who can think. The fecking bots go round and round and drive you crazy.
    Reminding us of someone we know…
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    Bye Bye Greens, hopefully we see much less of their stupid sourpusses. Only one set of idiots left ruining the country now.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    So yesterday I drove through Mole Valley (Dorking and a number of villages and lanes). It is a sea of yellow and not a blue poster anywhere. There was even one Labour poster. Mole Valley is 29 LD and 4 Con (plus some indies in a very specific enclave) and it is a 1/3rd up so a lot of LD defences and practically no (if any [split wards and not one ward], but I don't know which ones are up) Con defences so little prospect of Tory losses but it was surprising to see so many big houses on country lanes with LD posters.

    I also drove through Cobham yesterday on my way to Esher and it is a similar story. However having looked it up the LDs won here in 2023 (I assumed Chelsea footballers would vote Conservative). Would be interested in @JohnO views on the rest of Elmbridge as a local.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    The article is about India, it speculates that millions will soon lose their jobs in India - and the Philippines, this is a real thing and it’s going to be highly painful

    However this is also a UK issue, for Labour

    1. How many call centre jobs have been re-shored to the UK? A lot, I imagine. I often hear nice British regional accents when I finally get through

    2. It really really isn’t going to stop with “call centre jobs”, they are the low-hanging fruit; it will move on to nicer jobs. This is why I hear ministers waffling on about Britain’s great creative sector and how to boost it. The question should be, what bits will be left after AI has laid waste the landscape?

    is anyone in the coming Labour government even thinking about this, let alone talking about it?
    Just remember Leon, your call is important to them and they are suffering exceptionally high call numbers, whatever the time of day or night.

    AI that could actually answer enough calls simultaneously just might be an improvement.
    Exactly

    AI call centres mean that your call will be answered immediately, and dealt with better (as the Klarna experience shows). AI is superior at this, and so much cheaper - meaning the business can focus its resources elsewhere

    So that’s a massive gain in productivity for the customer, and the business, just a shame for the 800,000 people working in call centres in the UK

    We could see unemployment of 10-20% this decade
    Hm. I'm sceptical.

    Chatbots work for 70% of queries, but those tend to be the queries I could resolve myself with a bit of effort.

    But they're not very good at nuance or things which sit even slightly outside their normal experience.

    That said, nor are humans. Particularly when they are sitting 10,000 miles away and sticking rigidly to a script. But at least with humans you have the chance of trying your query in different formats until it comes back resolved.

    My recent experience of trying to navigate this maze (insurance issues) leaves me fearful of a future when I only have AI to deal with. That said, at least AI will answer the bloody phone; I reckon I've spent a good 48 hours of the last 18 months on hold waiting for a response (thanks to the collective wisdom on here I eventually got it resolved by contacting them through Twitter).

    However, I lost a good hour the other day trying to get AI image creators trying to create an image of a woman and man together, the woman taller than the man. [I didn't need this image; I just noticed that in all images I created, the man was around half a head taller than the woman, and wondered if I could change this. I couldn't - no matter how I specified 'woman should be taller than the man' or 'significantly taller' or 'woman should be 1.8m, man should be 1.6m', it wouldn't do it. It was very easy to lose an hour doing this, not least because it produced some beautiful and fascinating images. Often it added an extra, shorter woman. Once it added an absolutely gigantic, morbidly obese man with long hair and a guy fawkes mask. Now granted I was just using free tools, and I may not have mastered the prompts properly, but if AI struggles with something only slightly outside the norm like this, it's going to struggle when I want to talk intricate details of collisions.]

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,572
    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Hope this means that the remaining few call centre staff, who deal with the most complex cases, will be competent. The combination of a first-line AI and excellent second-line humans would be less stressful than the current obstacle-course.
  • Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Lots of pearls being clutched today by our right-leaning friends, their delicate constitutions grievously shaken by the language used by that uppity working-class woman. That kind of language is good for below stairs but shouldn’t befoul the refined air of better, more sophisticated nice middle-class folks. How very unparliamentary.
    1. She didn't call Sunak anything - Dorries did
    2. Throwing quotes at people is in parliamentary order, hence the lack of any intervention by the speaker
    3. PB Tory Cancel Warriors may dislike it, but screeching just keeps us talking about the "pint-sized loser"
    4. Compare and contrast their Shock and Outrage with their faux braying for something to be done about tax-dodging Rayner. And their nothing to see here move along please response to Scandal after Scandal after Scandal on their own side.

    Lets cut them some slack. It must be so hard being one of the final 5 people in the country still prepared to defend whatever absurd hypocritical immoral position the Tories want them to shill on any given day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    edited April 25

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
    Again, look at offshoring. We used to worry that accountancy and law jobs would be offshored, even medicine for things like reading scans. Some were, most weren't.

    AI will doubtless cost some jobs. It will also create new ones. What it will mostly do is open up services for those who cannot currently afford them. You could employ AI to draw cartoons for your Gazette columns. That has not cost any cartoonist their job. Only when the Telegraph replaces Matt will a cartoonist lose his job. Likewise you could have AI translate your AI-cartoon captions into French or Japanese, but again no humans have lost their jobs. Forget AI. Have you cost a photographer his job by taking your own travel snaps for the Gazette, or would they not have sent one anyway?

    Of course AI will destroy jobs. That guy in the FT makes the same claim as you - “oh yes millions will be made unemployed in a year or two but don’t worry they will do other jobs, AI will create jobs”

    He just doesn’t say what these new jobs ARE. Because they don’t exist, I suspect

    If 700k of the 800k UK call centre workers lose their jobs in a couple of years, what will they all do?

    Photography, by the way, has basically been destroyed by the internet. It is not a viable career, not any more

    Other artistic jobs will follow
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 225
    SNP gets FREEDOMMMM from the Greens.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    Please, pretty please, make it happen!

    From a betting POV, I wonder what the effect on the SNP vote will be? I would expect it to lose them some votes in the cities, which would benefit Labour, but regain them some votes in rural and small town Scotland, which would mean the Tories would be less likely to hold onto their seats and for the Lib Dems to be less likely to gain seats, so also indirectly benefiting Labour.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,775
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Hope this means that the remaining few call centre staff, who deal with the most complex cases, will be competent. The combination of a first-line AI and excellent second-line humans would be less stressful than the current obstacle-course.
    The few times I've had to deal with Amazon's 'AI' customer service agent have mostly been quite good. It's clearly optimised for the common case and if you veer outside it then it passes you off to 'a colleague'. But the "I ordered two of these and there was only one in the box" kinda things - it's great.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    Trouble is, this is entirely untrue. Klarna recently AI’d many of their call centre jobs and discovered that not only did they save loads of money, 1. The AI was more efficient than humans and 2. Surveys reported greater customer satisfaction

    “Klarna’s AI Assistant Does the Job of 700 Customer Service Agents”

    “When you think of positive customer service experiences, AI definitely isn’t what comes to mind. But Klarna might be changing that”

    https://blog.hubspot.com/ai/klarna-ai-assistant

    Chatbots are getting seriously good, and they are far smarter than a nice 97 IQ woman working in Dundee with an accent so thick (however pleasant) you can’t understand every third word

    Moreover, the menace gets worse: studies shows that humans consistently prefer to interact with AI rather than other humans, even if they are told, indeed if they are told it often improves things. You can’t offend a machine, it has no feelings

    Also, people prefer AI photos to real photos of “real people” and people are happier taking orders from AI than humans (the latter I have actually experienced for myself)
    Personally I cannot wait to get past the bots and reach a human who can think. The fecking bots go round and round and drive you crazy.
    Reminding us of someone we know…
    :D
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    Please, pretty please, make it happen!

    From a betting POV, I wonder what the effect on the SNP vote will be? I would expect it to lose them some votes in the cities, which would benefit Labour, but regain them some votes in rural and small town Scotland, which would mean the Tories would be less likely to hold onto their seats and for the Lib Dems to be less likely to gain seats, so also indirectly benefiting Labour.
    announced Fairlie, even LBC have it reported. Greens left and have had to get on tricycles rather than ministerial cars.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Nigelb said:

    North Korea, Iran deepen partnership through missile tech exchange
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=373421

    It’s now NK, Iran, and Russia, against the West.

    Thankfully (for the West), China has been sensible enough to mostly stay neutral and out of that axis of evil so far.

    Not that they’re failing to threaten Taiwan and continue to build their own little empire across the globe, which should also worry us all.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243
    edited April 25

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Problem is, chatbots just chat. They have no agency in the real world. I've complained to a BT chatbot about the non-delivery of a new router but I may as well howl at the moon. Fortunately, if you are reading this, the old one is still working.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    Scott_xP said:

    @ringwodian

    A lot of Tories seem to be getting upset about Angela Rayner quoting Nadine Dorries today.

    I mean have they all forgotten they elected Boris Johnson as leader. Bunch of hypocrites.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,552

    SNP gets FREEDOMMMM from the Greens.

    Or: Greens get FREEDOMMMM from the corrupt anchor of the SNP...?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited April 25
    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Tata have spent the last couple of decades offshoring Western call centre jobs to India. Having those jobs taken over by AI will be their just desserts.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 225
    Presumably the Scottish Greens (the Lovats?) will now be more inclined to stand candidates for Westminster and Holyrood constituencies. That's assuming they have the membership and local resources, of course. What will the consequences be? I assume they stood down in the past to give tacit support to the SNP. What happens now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,886
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
    If so a UBI funded by a robot tax is inevitable and no govt would get elected without backing a UBI
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    For anyone thinking of attending the Proms, get tickets to see Yunchan Lim, if you can.
    Possibly the best pianist in the world, and certainly of his generation.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    kamski said:

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
    Labour didn't say it. The Tories did. Worse, it came from Sunak's former close colleague.

    Was musing about Sunak with a friend the other day. When I met him in 2020 I saw a guy relaxed with the burden of keeping the economy going through Covid, with best-in-class media team and advisors.

    What the hell went wrong?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    I would say, and this is only anecdotal , that the trend in recent years has been for call centres to be onshored again as businesses found that off shore centres were costing them business with quality and control issues. The only examples I can recall in recent times are some of the larger international hotel groups. Tesco's for example, are now a large employer here in Dundee where their call centre is based.
    Tesco Dundee, which was the HQ of Willie Low before they were taken over by Tesco. Which brings us back to Rishi Sunak and Angela Rayner.
    The world's not been right since Tesco took over Wullie Lows.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    malcolmg said:

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    Please, pretty please, make it happen!

    From a betting POV, I wonder what the effect on the SNP vote will be? I would expect it to lose them some votes in the cities, which would benefit Labour, but regain them some votes in rural and small town Scotland, which would mean the Tories would be less likely to hold onto their seats and for the Lib Dems to be less likely to gain seats, so also indirectly benefiting Labour.
    announced Fairlie, even LBC have it reported. Greens left and have had to get on tricycles rather than ministerial cars.
    Great news, Malc. Every policy the Greens have been responsible for has been an unmitigated disaster. Bottles, trans, not dualling the A9 and A96 ….. However they were all policies that Sturgeon supported. Maybe when they get out of jail, the Sturgeons will join the Greens, which should totally finish them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,886
    kjh said:

    So yesterday I drove through Mole Valley (Dorking and a number of villages and lanes). It is a sea of yellow and not a blue poster anywhere. There was even one Labour poster. Mole Valley is 29 LD and 4 Con (plus some indies in a very specific enclave) and it is a 1/3rd up so a lot of LD defences and practically no (if any [split wards and not one ward], but I don't know which ones are up) Con defences so little prospect of Tory losses but it was surprising to see so many big houses on country lanes with LD posters.

    I also drove through Cobham yesterday on my way to Esher and it is a similar story. However having looked it up the LDs won here in 2023 (I assumed Chelsea footballers would vote Conservative). Would be interested in @JohnO views on the rest of Elmbridge as a local.

    Mole Valley and Elmbridge are and will be solid LD locally until the Conservatives go into Opposition and start to pick up some protest vote against a Labour UK government and LD local councils
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,775

    Presumably the Scottish Greens (the Lovats?) will now be more inclined to stand candidates for Westminster and Holyrood constituencies. That's assuming they have the membership and local resources, of course. What will the consequences be? I assume they stood down in the past to give tacit support to the SNP. What happens now?

    I don't think they've got the money to do it. Couple of tokenistic 'show a face' ones at most I'd think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,886
    malcolmg said:

    Bye Bye Greens, hopefully we see much less of their stupid sourpusses. Only one set of idiots left ruining the country now.

    Could mean more Scottish Green Westminster candidates, also hitting the SNP
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    IPL: The batting blitz turning cricket into baseball
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-68872429

    That doesn't make it baseball.
    Baseball is quite hugely skewed to the ball in comparison to any form of cricket.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Yes, it's just poor customer service.

    AI won't destroy all these jobs, but when we have a national shortage of workers redeployment some of these to other work is a plus. Less need for immigration.

    It's hack travel journalists that need to worry most.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
    Again, look at offshoring. We used to worry that accountancy and law jobs would be offshored, even medicine for things like reading scans. Some were, most weren't.

    AI will doubtless cost some jobs. It will also create new ones. What it will mostly do is open up services for those who cannot currently afford them. You could employ AI to draw cartoons for your Gazette columns. That has not cost any cartoonist their job. Only when the Telegraph replaces Matt will a cartoonist lose his job. Likewise you could have AI translate your AI-cartoon captions into French or Japanese, but again no humans have lost their jobs. Forget AI. Have you cost a photographer his job by taking your own travel snaps for the Gazette, or would they not have sent one anyway?

    Of course AI will destroy jobs. That guy in the FT makes the same claim as you - “oh yes millions will be made unemployed in a year or two but don’t worry they will do other jobs, AI will create jobs”

    He just doesn’t say what these new jobs ARE. Because they don’t exist, I suspect

    If 700k of the 800k UK call centre workers lose their jobs in a couple of years, what will they all do?

    Photography, by the way, has basically been destroyed by the internet. It is not a viable career, not any more

    Other artistic jobs will follow
    My friend's wife, I was recently astonished to learn, is a textile designer. Who is now having to find other niches because she expects it all to be done by AI in two years time. If it's all about creating abstract designers, who cares whether most of those abstract designs weren't exactly what I specified? They're quite nice and they'll do. Not necessarily quite as well, but far, far more cheaply.
    However, it turns out there is more to being a textile designer than designing textiles. You have to say what will be fashionable in 18 months time and also go to Paris and go shopping. I don't understand why. But these jobs will still be done by humans for a while yet.

    I'm increasingly getting drawn down the midjourney rabbithole and am fascinated by the outputs it gives. Not expecting much, I asked it to draw a picture of me with my wife doing something exciting. It returned a nice picture of two pleasant looking strangers (a man in his 60s and a woman in her early 40s? father and daughter) standing in a slightly-too-narrow street proudly holding up a hand-drawn picture of a nice old car. I mean, it's quite a nice picture and a fascinating story starter. But midjourney's definition of exciting is different to mine.

    I report all this not to make any judgement on AI, but just to allow you to share my baffled fascination.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Presumably the Scottish Greens (the Lovats?) will now be more inclined to stand candidates for Westminster and Holyrood constituencies. That's assuming they have the membership and local resources, of course. What will the consequences be? I assume they stood down in the past to give tacit support to the SNP. What happens now?

    Had 22 or so candidates at last GE - no electoral pact IIRC, so presumably just resources. The Holyrood election was also before the Bute House Agreement anyway, so it'll be back to normal there.

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-greens-release-list-of-2019-general-election-candidates_14722.htm
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237

    The more I read some of the comments on here, the more I giggle. That lank stream of yawn is Deputy Prime Minister. He was barely able to even read the scripted answers in a strangled high-pitched voice which showed how nervous he was. Never mind what someone who is DPM needs to be able to do - react.

    Did he - at any point - show the slightest ability to actually listen to what was being said, think *I'll thrown this back at her* and then do so? Rayner seems to be upsetting some cancel warriors because she might become DPM.

    Dowden *is* DPM. Shouldn't you be more worried about that?

    Not necessarily

    You are thinking about the Prescott model for DPM. Dowden is playing the role of being the committee man behind the scenes. Also important - but he’s not great at being the front man and will never have that role
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Yes, it's just poor customer service.

    AI won't destroy all these jobs, but when we have a national shortage of workers redeployment some of these to other work is a plus. Less need for immigration.

    It's hack travel journalists that need to worry most.
    It’s really not. Travel journalists will be some of the last to go (amongst writers); an AI trying to pretend it’s having a human experience would be exposed and the company would be in deep shit - and an AI cannot have a human experience. Those jobs are safe for now, the ones that require intrinsic humanity and a human presence

    Everyone else in a cognitive job where they don’t have to show a face and be there in the moment is in grave trouble. That’s most office jobs and a lot of artistic jobs
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Bye Bye Greens, hopefully we see much less of their stupid sourpusses. Only one set of idiots left ruining the country now.

    Could mean more Scottish Green Westminster candidates, also hitting the SNP
    No agreement for Westminster last time, in fact the SNP were specifically targeted for not being 100% green, and tyhat would still apply because of the net zero argument.

    Tories and LDs were in an actual formal coalition and still competed in 2015.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    I would say, and this is only anecdotal , that the trend in recent years has been for call centres to be onshored again as businesses found that off shore centres were costing them business with quality and control issues. The only examples I can recall in recent times are some of the larger international hotel groups. Tesco's for example, are now a large employer here in Dundee where their call centre is based.
    Tesco Dundee, which was the HQ of Willie Low before they were taken over by Tesco. Which brings us back to Rishi Sunak and Angela Rayner.
    The world's not been right since Tesco took over Wullie Lows.
    When I was a trainee solicitor we used to be buying £1m sites for new Willie Lows stores every couple of months. They tried to expand fast but could never quite get the critical mass needed to compete with the big players on price. It is somewhat ironic that in recent times the likes of Tesco's, Sainsburys, Asda and Morrisons have all gone back into the larger corner shop market which was Lows origins and strength.

    Their takeover was a real blow to Dundee with lots of well paid jobs disappearing but, as I have said, Tesco's is now employing quite a lot of people in the city, albeit at much lower wages.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Have just seen some Teesside Tory a bit fraught on TwiX that Labour want to nationalise the railways which means "crap service and high fares." Compared to now...?

    Besides. Northern Rail, which spent best part of a decade run by Dutch state railways then a decade run by German state railways now being run by the DfT directly. When was it ever "privatised"?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Was musing about Sunak with a friend the other day. When I met him in 2020 I saw a guy relaxed with the burden of keeping the economy going through Covid, with best-in-class media team and advisors.

    What the hell went wrong?

    His only 'skill' during that time was writing ever larger cheques
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Yet another storm in a teacup.

    The way to handle it would have been to reply that since the Honourable Lady opposite is making personal attacks, this means that she must agree 100% on policy. So when is she crossing the floor to join us?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    kamski said:

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
    Oh, is 454cm3-size better?

    Only joking - your point is a fair one.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189

    kamski said:

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
    Labour didn't say it. The Tories did. Worse, it came from Sunak's former close colleague.

    Was musing about Sunak with a friend the other day. When I met him in 2020 I saw a guy relaxed with the burden of keeping the economy going through Covid, with best-in-class media team and advisors.

    What the hell went wrong?
    The 'someone else said it first' defence is really pathetic, unless you are explicitly quoting someone to criticise what they said. Rayner is atttacking Sunak here - I mean Dorries isn't even an MP any more. Or was Rayner trying to be supportive of Sunak against Dorries's insult? Pull the other one.

    In your world pretty much anything would be acceptable. 'It wasn't *me* being racist when I used that racist insult against someone, I was quoting someone else'. (I'm not comparing 'pint-size' with racist abuse - just wondering where would YOU draw the line when insulting someone using someone else's words)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just trying to imagine the opprobrium if someone from the Government front bench had made a similar comment about a Labour frontbencher.

    I suspect we'd get all sorts of comments about the nasty Tories and discrimination.

    Agreed that it's not to be applauded.

    Even if it was indeed a former government front bencher who coined the phrase in respect of Sunak.
    I should add, in the interests of balance, that Cameron once made an oblique joke about John Bercow's height by referencing to the Seven Dwarfs as well.

    As dislikeable as Bercow is that wasn't in order or Prime Ministerial either.
    He also referred to Dorries as being frustrated.
    Did he? I thought it was “now now dear”.

    It was contemptuous and dismissive certainly but not - on the face of it - rude and crass. That’s the difference. Politics is a rough game and there’s room for mockery but it should be more subtle than Rayner’s attempt and certainly not based on a physical characteristic that Sunak can’t control

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    edited April 25
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    There over 6000 call centres in the United Kingdom
    There are around 812,000 agent roles within these centres
    Over 4% of the UK’s working population is employed at a call centre


    https://www.cactussearch.co.uk/about-us/clients/white-papers/current-challenges-customer-contact-recruitment-2021/
    And a lot of those call centres are a complete waste of time and energy - all those involved in oiling the wheels of the retail energy 'market' for a start. (Although I assume since the failure of said market the number of call centre roles there has significantly reduced.)
    But that’s 800,000 jobs. Gone in a year or two - and then all the other cognitive jobs as AI moves up the food chain, lawyers, bankers, brokers, designers, accountants, musicians, writers, nearly all of them - gone

    This is going to be devastating for so many, yet zero people discuss it. By the end of Starmer’s term - certainly his 2nd term - we could have five million unemployed - or we could be living in an era of perpetual abundance
    Again, look at offshoring. We used to worry that accountancy and law jobs would be offshored, even medicine for things like reading scans. Some were, most weren't.

    AI will doubtless cost some jobs. It will also create new ones. What it will mostly do is open up services for those who cannot currently afford them. You could employ AI to draw cartoons for your Gazette columns. That has not cost any cartoonist their job. Only when the Telegraph replaces Matt will a cartoonist lose his job. Likewise you could have AI translate your AI-cartoon captions into French or Japanese, but again no humans have lost their jobs. Forget AI. Have you cost a photographer his job by taking your own travel snaps for the Gazette, or would they not have sent one anyway?

    Of course AI will destroy jobs. That guy in the FT makes the same claim as you - “oh yes millions will be made unemployed in a year or two but don’t worry they will do other jobs, AI will create jobs”

    He just doesn’t say what these new jobs ARE. Because they don’t exist, I suspect

    If 700k of the 800k UK call centre workers lose their jobs in a couple of years, what will they all do?

    Photography, by the way, has basically been destroyed by the internet. It is not a viable career, not any more

    Other artistic jobs will follow
    My friend's wife, I was recently astonished to learn, is a textile designer. Who is now having to find other niches because she expects it all to be done by AI in two years time. If it's all about creating abstract designers, who cares whether most of those abstract designs weren't exactly what I specified? They're quite nice and they'll do. Not necessarily quite as well, but far, far more cheaply.
    However, it turns out there is more to being a textile designer than designing textiles. You have to say what will be fashionable in 18 months time and also go to Paris and go shopping. I don't understand why. But these jobs will still be done by humans for a while yet.

    I'm increasingly getting drawn down the midjourney rabbithole and am fascinated by the outputs it gives. Not expecting much, I asked it to draw a picture of me with my wife doing something exciting. It returned a nice picture of two pleasant looking strangers (a man in his 60s and a woman in her early 40s? father and daughter) standing in a slightly-too-narrow street proudly holding up a hand-drawn picture of a nice old car. I mean, it's quite a nice picture and a fascinating story starter. But midjourney's definition of exciting is different to mine.

    I report all this not to make any judgement on AI, but just to allow you to share my baffled fascination.
    It’s all in the promptcraft

    Look at what results other people are getting and examine their prompts. I found one guy sourcing brilliantly weird and spooky images - I checked his prompts and there were two significant words he was using
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237

    I posted the real Raynergate scandal on the last thread when everyone was asleep last night.

    If there is any truth in Private Eye's allusion the whole Raynergate charade is disgusting.

    Now here's something for the pint-sized snowflakes to mull over.

    https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/status/1783172206886826049?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

    Someone speaking at a conference does t make everything g they do subsequently political or corrupt.


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Have just seen some Teesside Tory a bit fraught on TwiX that Labour want to nationalise the railways which means "crap service and high fares." Compared to now...?

    Besides. Northern Rail, which spent best part of a decade run by Dutch state railways then a decade run by German state railways now being run by the DfT directly. When was it ever "privatised"?

    https://x.com/larryandpaul/status/1783401541610741969
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Carnyx said:

    kamski said:

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
    Oh, is 454cm3-size better?

    Only joking - your point is a fair one.
    So he’s a 454ml American pint size, rather than a 568ml British pint size?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    I posted the real Raynergate scandal on the last thread when everyone was asleep last night.

    If there is any truth in Private Eye's allusion the whole Raynergate charade is disgusting.

    Now here's something for the pint-sized snowflakes to mull over.

    https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/status/1783172206886826049?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

    Someone speaking at a conference does t make everything g they do subsequently political or corrupt.


    Depends what it was. I will be interested to see exactly what the topic and audience and context were. It could have beem at Inspector Knackers for Rishi for all we know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited April 25
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    kamski said:

    Mr. Pioneers, 'cancel warriors'?

    You understand it's legitimate to criticise someone for obnoxious use of language, right? That there's a difference between doing that and demanding someone be thrown out of public life?

    Who is calling for cancellation? Name these warriors at which you're 'giggling'. I'm perhaps a bit sleepy, so I may have missed those calling for Rayner to no longer be an MP.

    Give over. "Obnoxious use of language" - if that is a thing you want to ban - is something to aim at Nadine Dorries.

    It is an entirely legitimate political action to hoist politicians up with their words, deeds and actions. A Conservative ex Cabinet Minister and direct colleague of Sunak called him a "Pint-Sized Loser". Various posters on here seem very upset that she threw that back at the Tories - shouldn't be said, not legitimate as you put it.

    You want to cancel such "obnoxious" language, yes?

    Lets look at who thinks it was fine - the Speaker. He is very quick to call out unparliamentary language. Is scrupulous about the rules of what can and can't be said whilst staying in order. And he found it to be in order. Because it IS in order.
    Rayner seemed to be quoting Dorries approvingly, I didn't have you or Rayner down as Dorries fans.

    'pint-size' not acceptable, less of this from Labour please.
    Oh, is 454cm3-size better?

    Only joking - your point is a fair one.
    So he’s a 454ml American pint size, rather than a 568ml British pint size?
    Argh - just as well I don't work for an airport refuelling company. I meant 568 ...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    edited April 25
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ringwodian

    A lot of Tories seem to be getting upset about Angela Rayner quoting Nadine Dorries today.

    It wasn’t framed as a quote.
    The people it was aimed at know it was a quote.

    And the people who didn't know are clutching their pearls, until they find out it was a quote
    There’s no pearl clutching.

    It was an ugly comment in an inappropriate forum. It makes me think less of her. But she shouldn’t be sacked or anything like that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    Oh do keep up. AI chatbots will get better. Most call centre jobs were offshored years ago. They've already been lost.
    I would say, and this is only anecdotal , that the trend in recent years has been for call centres to be onshored again as businesses found that off shore centres were costing them business with quality and control issues. The only examples I can recall in recent times are some of the larger international hotel groups. Tesco's for example, are now a large employer here in Dundee where their call centre is based.
    Yes.

    And before someone starts in with racist crap - you get what you pay for.

    If you pay pennies offshore, with shit working conditions, then you get a the workforce who can't get a job elsewhere.

    If you look at productivity, many times you see the following - a smaller number of employees, paid and treated better, with better equipment beats a horde of starvation wage, untrained. It's simply cheaper.

    What I would use AI chatbots for (and the smart operators are already doing) is to use them for filtering the simple queries. After a couple of interactions, if the problem isn't solved, it go to a human.

    This means you can have a smaller number of humans to solve the edge cases. Done right, this means that long waits in call queues can disappear, and you get to talk to better staff in the end.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    There was me thinking that the Greens were making a stand on a point of principle over Net Zero.

    Turns out it is connected to trans shit.
    I'm struggling to think what the Scottish government actually stands for. Other than failing to deliver independence and declining the economy and social fabric of Scotland at a slightly slower rate than England.
    The fact is that the Scottish economy is the strongest outside of the SE of England and has been growing at roughly the same pace as the rest of the UK. It's public spending that is the issue.

    You could argue that the SNP's damage, if it exists, will only be apparent in years to come, or that comparing to rUK isn't particularly positive, but ultimately the SG has very few levers over economic growth and the economy is far too integrated with rUK for those levers to make much of a difference.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,544
    edited April 25
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Yes, it's just poor customer service.

    AI won't destroy all these jobs, but when we have a national shortage of workers redeployment some of these to other work is a plus. Less need for immigration.

    It's hack travel journalists that need to worry most.
    It’s really not. Travel journalists will be some of the last to go (amongst writers); an AI trying to pretend it’s having a human experience would be exposed and the company would be in deep shit - and an AI cannot have a human experience. Those jobs are safe for now, the ones that require intrinsic humanity and a human presence

    Everyone else in a cognitive job where they don’t have to show a face and be there in the moment is in grave trouble. That’s most office jobs and a lot of artistic jobs
    For some reason I've just thought of the travel writer who wrote a guidebook about something like the Canadian Rockies, and later on it turned out he hadn't actually visited them.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Fergus Ewing was suspended from the SNP just for voting in support of a 'no confidence' motion in the Green minister and now the FM has sacked the Green minister...

    https://x.com/holyroodmandy/status/1783411612692390209

    Wonder when Fergus will get his apology…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just trying to imagine the opprobrium if someone from the Government front bench had made a similar comment about a Labour frontbencher.

    I suspect we'd get all sorts of comments about the nasty Tories and discrimination.

    Agreed that it's not to be applauded.

    Even if it was indeed a former government front bencher who coined the phrase in respect of Sunak.
    I should add, in the interests of balance, that Cameron once made an oblique joke about John Bercow's height by referencing to the Seven Dwarfs as well.

    As dislikeable as Bercow is that wasn't in order or Prime Ministerial either.
    He also referred to Dorries as being frustrated.
    Did he? I thought it was “now now dear”.

    It was contemptuous and dismissive certainly but not - on the face of it - rude and crass. That’s the difference. Politics is a rough game and there’s room for mockery but it should be more subtle than Rayner’s attempt and certainly not based on a physical characteristic that Sunak can’t control

    Indeed. I seem to remember the Tories getting very nasty indeed and baiting Ms Rayner en masse about "a physical characteristic that [Ms Rayner] can’t control".
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    It's 50,000 according to this report, though it looks like a draft with X instead of various numbers: https://www.ibisworld.com/united-kingdom/market-research-reports/call-centres-industry/

    I'd think that some of these are high-end call centres that will be less affected initially - e.g. the people who made my custom-built PC have a call centre which needs more expertise than most of us have. Others will be the sort of marketing operations that the political parties use, i.e. the centre calling people rather than vice versa. Overall, like self-service cashouts in supermarkets, it's an issue, but probably not going to change as quickly as one might expect.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    Presumably the Scottish Greens (the Lovats?) will now be more inclined to stand candidates for Westminster and Holyrood constituencies. That's assuming they have the membership and local resources, of course. What will the consequences be? I assume they stood down in the past to give tacit support to the SNP. What happens now?

    You assume wrong eg they stood in Rutherglen & Hamilton West, not that it made much difference.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not sorry:

    If true this would be excellent news. The Scottish Greens have brought nothing transformative to the table on climate change that was actually viable, their science denying response to the #CassReport was disgraceful & their identity politics are toxic.

    https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1783399430378377335
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,572


    I didn't realise Scholz was also pint-sized.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Eabhal said:

    SNP power sharing agreement with the Greens is over

    And that is important news not the childish name calling at PMQs

    There was me thinking that the Greens were making a stand on a point of principle over Net Zero.

    Turns out it is connected to trans shit.
    I'm struggling to think what the Scottish government actually stands for. Other than failing to deliver independence and declining the economy and social fabric of Scotland at a slightly slower rate than England.
    The fact is that the Scottish economy is the strongest outside of the SE of England and has been growing at roughly the same pace as the rest of the UK. It's public spending that is the issue.

    You could argue that the SNP's damage, if it exists, will only be apparent in years to come, or that comparing to rUK isn't particularly positive, but ultimately the SG has very few levers over economic growth and the economy is far too integrated with rUK for those levers to make much of a difference.
    Talking about that, the PB Scotchexperts predicting the flood of higher paid tax payers over the border ...? They got the flood right, bujt not the direction, at least for 2021-22. Willbe interesting to see what the data for 2022-23 bring.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24274834.thousands-moving-scotland-leaving-income-tax-raised/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=240424
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,552
    The "alternate" (fake) Electoral College Voters in Arizona have been indicted on felony criminal charges. A bunch of Trumps lawyers and lackeys indicted with them.

    But not yet Trump. Suggestions the State AG is waiting for the Supreme Court ruling on his "absolute immunity" claims before joining him too. Until then, he is "Unindicted Co-conspirator Number 1"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    So yesterday I drove through Mole Valley (Dorking and a number of villages and lanes). It is a sea of yellow and not a blue poster anywhere. There was even one Labour poster. Mole Valley is 29 LD and 4 Con (plus some indies in a very specific enclave) and it is a 1/3rd up so a lot of LD defences and practically no (if any [split wards and not one ward], but I don't know which ones are up) Con defences so little prospect of Tory losses but it was surprising to see so many big houses on country lanes with LD posters.

    I also drove through Cobham yesterday on my way to Esher and it is a similar story. However having looked it up the LDs won here in 2023 (I assumed Chelsea footballers would vote Conservative). Would be interested in @JohnO views on the rest of Elmbridge as a local.

    Mole Valley and Elmbridge are and will be solid LD locally until the Conservatives go into Opposition and start to pick up some protest vote against a Labour UK government and LD local councils
    Yep I agree, but was surprised to see not a single Blue poster board.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061
    The Malaise Speech of 1979

    "Crisis Of Confidence" André Dutra, Apr 20, 2024
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqgL950ZH48

    AI summary
    President Jimmy Carter delivered a significant address on July 15th, 1979, addressing the crisis of confidence in the nation. The speech highlighted the issues of self-indulgence and consumption, emphasizing the need for a revival of civic duty among the public. Despite initial positive reception, Carter's presidency faced challenges due to his cabinet reshuffling and subsequent public backlash. His honesty, while commendable, ultimately led to his defeat in the following election to Ronald Reagan, who presented a more optimistic vision for America.

    Carter's personal life and work ethic were explored in a biography, showcasing his diverse skills and humble beginnings. His presidency marked a departure from traditional Washington politics, with a focus on honesty and practical solutions. Carter's approach to governance, influenced by his engineering background, led to challenges in navigating the political landscape and building necessary relationships.

    The administration faced crises such as rising oil prices and the Iranian hostage situation, impacting Carter's leadership. His departure from the New Deal ideology of previous Democratic presidents led to a primary challenge from Senator Ted Kennedy, reflecting broader divides within the party. Carter's presidency, though short-lived, signaled a shift in the country's political direction and highlighted the challenges of balancing personal integrity with political pragmatism.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just trying to imagine the opprobrium if someone from the Government front bench had made a similar comment about a Labour frontbencher.

    I suspect we'd get all sorts of comments about the nasty Tories and discrimination.

    Agreed that it's not to be applauded.

    Even if it was indeed a former government front bencher who coined the phrase in respect of Sunak.
    I should add, in the interests of balance, that Cameron once made an oblique joke about John Bercow's height by referencing to the Seven Dwarfs as well.

    As dislikeable as Bercow is that wasn't in order or Prime Ministerial either.
    He also referred to Dorries as being frustrated.
    Did he? I thought it was “now now dear”.

    It was contemptuous and dismissive certainly but not - on the face of it - rude and crass. That’s the difference. Politics is a rough game and there’s room for mockery but it should be more subtle than Rayner’s attempt and certainly not based on a physical characteristic that Sunak can’t control

    Indeed. I seem to remember the Tories getting very nasty indeed and baiting Ms Rayner en masse about "a physical characteristic that [Ms Rayner] can’t control".
    I don't think the Tories can have any complaints after the racist £15 million.

    "Should be shot".
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    If you look through history, the effect of a technological change is very hard to predict. At least, you can make hundreds of predictions, none of which turn out to be correct.

    Take t'Internet. I've been involved with the Internet since just before the WWW; and used Mosaic as a browser back in 93-4. I thought it would change things; but the amount of change, and the direction, were very different from how I thought (*). But also, I don't think many other people saw it either. Yes, we all thought it would change things. But this much?

    Also, there are many predictions of tech that will change the world that turn out to be nothingburgers despite massive hype. Driverless cars being a brilliant example so far. All promise, massive hype, and lacklustre results.

    IMV current AI is somewhere between the two; it's not good enough to be truly transformative, but it is very hard to see exactly how it will change things.

    (*) If I had got it right, I might be very rich.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    Presumably the Scottish Greens (the Lovats?) will now be more inclined to stand candidates for Westminster and Holyrood constituencies. That's assuming they have the membership and local resources, of course. What will the consequences be? I assume they stood down in the past to give tacit support to the SNP. What happens now?

    they would struggle to fill a phone box, not a chance
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,235
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Yes, it's just poor customer service.

    AI won't destroy all these jobs, but when we have a national shortage of workers redeployment some of these to other work is a plus. Less need for immigration.

    It's hack travel journalists that need to worry most.
    It’s really not. Travel journalists will be some of the last to go (amongst writers); an AI trying to pretend it’s having a human experience would be exposed and the company would be in deep shit - and an AI cannot have a human experience. Those jobs are safe for now, the ones that require intrinsic humanity and a human presence

    Everyone else in a cognitive job where they don’t have to show a face and be there in the moment is in grave trouble. That’s most office jobs and a lot of artistic jobs
    For some reason I've just thought of the travel writer who wrote a guidebook about something like the Canadian Rockies, and later on it turned out he hadn't actually visited them.
    Guidebook writing will mostly be done by AI

    But the journalism will be a last redoubt of the human. By the time the spooky looms come for the poor travel hack, having his final mojito in the Maldives, we will either all be dead or living in total AI abundance anyway. The Singularity will be at hand

    I’ve been trying to work out why no politicians are even talking about this - the imminent prospect of AI taking millions of jobs. I deduce it is because

    1. They don’t understand it, they can’t quite believe it
    2. They’re scared
    3. They have no idea what to do, better to go into denial

    Sometimes a mix of all three
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 225
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Labour is going to preside over some serious unemployment


    “The head of Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services has said artificial intelligence will result in “minimal” need for call centres in as soon as a year, with AI’s rapid advances set to upend a vast industry across Asia and beyond.”

    FT ££

    How many people work in call centres in the UK? I imagine it is not a trivia number

    Few will mourn these repetitive jobs (tho the people who get made redundant might); AI will not stop there

    Why do none of our politicians talk about this? This isn’t some distant prospect, this is happening shortly - “in as soon as a year”

    A challenge for Reeves and Starmer

    People hate talking to a computer.

    Often you want empathy and understanding and not a chatbot.

    Everyone's situation is different.
    I think "chatbots" are just a way for multinational companies to avoid talking to their customers. After the 5th time a computer gives you a link to their (automated) complaints procedure, you just give up.
    Yes, it's just poor customer service.

    AI won't destroy all these jobs, but when we have a national shortage of workers redeployment some of these to other work is a plus. Less need for immigration.

    It's hack travel journalists that need to worry most.
    It’s really not. Travel journalists will be some of the last to go (amongst writers); an AI trying to pretend it’s having a human experience would be exposed and the company would be in deep shit - and an AI cannot have a human experience. Those jobs are safe for now, the ones that require intrinsic humanity and a human presence

    Everyone else in a cognitive job where they don’t have to show a face and be there in the moment is in grave trouble. That’s most office jobs and a lot of artistic jobs
    For some reason I've just thought of the travel writer who wrote a guidebook about something like the Canadian Rockies, and later on it turned out he hadn't actually visited them.
    I don't understand. I thought the whole point was that L**n *was* AI, hence always banging on about it all the time. (I didn't name him, because it's like a fairy tale - if we do, he appears.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,544
    edited April 25
    Today's PO witness is the wonderfully named Angela van den Bogerd.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55181709
This discussion has been closed.