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Is Greater Manchester ready for Mayor Galloway? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    I would say someone is having a go.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Truman said:

    TimS said:

    Is it really a good idea for the President of Lativa to say "Russia delenda est"?

    https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/1768533827897397433

    Yes, it is. Weakness is escalation, as we’ve seen graphically in recent weeks.
    How do we plan to beat Russia though without NATO boots on the ground. Serious question.
    QED
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com"

    Quasi-consensual? Semi-consummated? Banned in thirteen states?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    edited March 15
    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    It would be trivially easy for AI to create a new PB character with some history and personality, and a tiny modicum of wit and imagination. That would instantly make them more interesting to read than @Scott_xP and @IanB2, and with less zoophilia, one hopes

    Given that the latest chatbots can also remember conversations over extended periods, they would also develop freindships and feuds. This is surely coming. Ask Claude 3 about "Dead Internet Theory"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com"

    Quasi-consensual? Semi-consummated? Banned in thirteen states?
    Master and disciple?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,935
    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    If you want to destroy AI, ask it to win an argument with Barty or HYFUD, or to ask it to convince TUD that the SNP are occasionally wrong.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really pleased Leon decided not to post about AI today.
    Imagine the conversation if he hadn't.

    Have you ever considered "enhancing" your avatar pic via AI? OR your real photo (assuming two are not same)?
    Tut tut, that is Dixie Dean, one of the finest footballers in history. A Everton and England legend.

    You are obviously excused as someone who comes from a country where footballers use their hands.
    So "Dixie" is NOT politically-incorrect English misspelling of "Dizzy" as in a TRUE sporting legend, Dizzy Dean:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    .
    TOPPING said:

    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com"

    Quasi-consensual? Semi-consummated? Banned in thirteen states?
    Master and disciple?
    Commendably modest of you.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    Truman said:

    TimS said:

    Is it really a good idea for the President of Lativa to say "Russia delenda est"?

    https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/1768533827897397433

    Yes, it is. Weakness is escalation, as we’ve seen graphically in recent weeks.
    How do we plan to beat Russia though without NATO boots on the ground. Serious question.
    So far in this war, Ukraine has shown very well that if we give it the tools, it will use them *very* well.

    We (the west) should give them more tools.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    AlsoLei said:

    Norfolk 1, Apple 0

    "Apple has agreed to pay $490m (£385m) to settle a lawsuit led by Norfolk County Council.

    The class action alleged the tech giant's boss, Tim Cook, defrauded shareholders by covering up lower demand for iPhones in China."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68580235

    That's Norfolk, VA... right?
    Perhaps Norfolk, Nebraska?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
    You should try ayahuasca. Seriously. I think you'd love it, and you'd benefit from it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
    You should try ayahuasca. Seriously. I think you'd love it, and you'd benefit from it
    It's a long way to travel.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    This week's polling average



    Reform continue their remorseless rise.

    Feeding on a rotting carcass.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104

    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    If you want to destroy AI, ask it to win an argument with Barty or HYFUD, or to ask it to convince TUD that the SNP are occasionally wrong.
    Better still, ask it to do both Barty and HYUFD arguing to a conclusion.
    That should tie it up for a decade at least.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really pleased Leon decided not to post about AI today.
    Imagine the conversation if he hadn't.

    Have you ever considered "enhancing" your avatar pic via AI? OR your real photo (assuming two are not same)?
    Tut tut, that is Dixie Dean, one of the finest footballers in history. A Everton and England legend.

    You are obviously excused as someone who comes from a country where footballers use their hands.
    So "Dixie" is NOT politically-incorrect English misspelling of "Dizzy" as in a TRUE sporting legend, Dizzy Dean:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean
    The only true sporting legend is Max Woosnam. My favourite is him beating Charlie Chaplin at Table Tennis playing with a butter knife.

    “ Among his achievements were winning an Olympic gold and silver in tennis at the 1920 Summer Olympics,[6] winning the doubles at Wimbledon, compiling a 147 break in snooker, making a century at Lord's Cricket Ground, captaining the British Davis Cup team, captaining Manchester City F.C. finishing ultimately runners-up for the Football League Championship in 1920–21, and captaining the England national football team.[7] He also played football for Cambridge Town.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Woosnam
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    Truman said:

    TimS said:

    Is it really a good idea for the President of Lativa to say "Russia delenda est"?

    https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/1768533827897397433

    Yes, it is. Weakness is escalation, as we’ve seen graphically in recent weeks.
    How do we plan to beat Russia though without NATO boots on the ground. Serious question.
    So far in this war, Ukraine has shown very well that if we give it the tools, it will use them *very* well.

    We (the west) should give them more tools.
    Using tools well isnt sufficient if you arent driving back the russians. And ukraine is failing to do this.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited March 15
    Leon said:

    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    It would be trivially easy for AI to create a new PB character with some history and personality, and a tiny modicum of wit and imagination. That would instantly make them more interesting to read than @Scott_xP and @IanB2, and with less zoophilia, one hopes

    Given that the latest chatbots can also remember conversations over extended periods, they would also develop freindships and feuds. This is surely coming. Ask Claude 3 about "Dead Internet Theory"
    Bringing us back to a perennial PB topic, I'm still holding out for the moment when someone feeds the entire history of the Daily Mail's comments forum into an ML sentiment analysis system, and commissions a fleet of drones to act on the results. Call it the Millennial's Basilisk...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
    You should try ayahuasca. Seriously. I think you'd love it, and you'd benefit from it
    It's a long way to travel.
    You can do it in England easily, good ayahuasqueros come to the UK/EU all the time, to do rituals with really good juice

    It is an incredible drug, everyone should try it at least once, it is also seriously therapeutic (and rather scary)

    Needs to be approached with respect and you need to do it with reliable experienced people. I know this world quite well now: DM me if you are sincerely interested

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited March 15
    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really pleased Leon decided not to post about AI today.
    Imagine the conversation if he hadn't.

    Have you ever considered "enhancing" your avatar pic via AI? OR your real photo (assuming two are not same)?
    Tut tut, that is Dixie Dean, one of the finest footballers in history. A Everton and England legend.

    You are obviously excused as someone who comes from a country where footballers use their hands.
    So "Dixie" is NOT politically-incorrect English misspelling of "Dizzy" as in a TRUE sporting legend, Dizzy Dean:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean
    The only true sporting legend is Max Woosnam. My favourite is him beating Charlie Chaplin at Table Tennis playing with a butter knife.

    “ Among his achievements were winning an Olympic gold and silver in tennis at the 1920 Summer Olympics,[6] winning the doubles at Wimbledon, compiling a 147 break in snooker, making a century at Lord's Cricket Ground, captaining the British Davis Cup team, captaining Manchester City F.C. finishing ultimately runners-up for the Football League Championship in 1920–21, and captaining the England national football team.[7] He also played football for Cambridge Town.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Woosnam
    Superb
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.
    @MaxPB's argument for a November election after a pre-election budget was the most convincing. They can try to run a campaign based on warning people against waking up after Christmas having to foot the bill for a Labour government.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
    You should try ayahuasca. Seriously. I think you'd love it, and you'd benefit from it
    It's a long way to travel.
    You can do it in the UK too, but unfortunately it's a field beset with grifters.

    When dealing with them, just remember that:
    • cacao is just hot chocolate
    • laughter yoga involves neither real laughter nor real yoga
    • sexological bodywork is just sex work with less soap
    ...and you'll avoid the worst of the hippy scammers involved.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    If you want to destroy AI, ask it to win an argument with Barty or HYFUD, or to ask it to convince TUD that the SNP are occasionally wrong.
    Or persuade you that they're occasionally right.
    Since like most of the PB herd you mention/moan about the SNP more than I praise them, AI might have a bit more material to work with in your case.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    Truman said:

    Truman said:

    TimS said:

    Is it really a good idea for the President of Lativa to say "Russia delenda est"?

    https://twitter.com/edgarsrinkevics/status/1768533827897397433

    Yes, it is. Weakness is escalation, as we’ve seen graphically in recent weeks.
    How do we plan to beat Russia though without NATO boots on the ground. Serious question.
    So far in this war, Ukraine has shown very well that if we give it the tools, it will use them *very* well.

    We (the west) should give them more tools.
    Using tools well isnt sufficient if you arent driving back the russians. And ukraine is failing to do this.
    Urrm, you didn't just miss the point; the point whistled over your head like one of your misfiring North Korean 152 shells.

    'We' aren't giving them the tools we could be giving them; hence they aren't able to drive the Russians back.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    edited March 15
    AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    AI scares, unnerves and annoys a lot of people, it's not just @TOPPING

    An audience at SXSW reacts to a video talking about AI with extremely loud booing and cat-calling


    https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/sxsw-audiences-boo-videos-artificial-intelligence-ai-1235940454/

    You are creating false monsters. Shadows if you like.

    I think AI is going to be fantastic but as with so many things you are getting carried away.

    And that's why we love you.
    That's very kind of you, I have a certain fondness for you too, you ridiculous atheist

    However I am far from convinced that AI is necessarily going to be "fantastic". It will be fantastically interesting, but that is a very different thing

    AI will be like the invention of fire, agriculture, industry, the internet, smartphones and nukes, all at once
    Yes it will be transformative I certainly agree with that. Praise be to ****.
    You should try ayahuasca. Seriously. I think you'd love it, and you'd benefit from it
    It's a long way to travel.
    You can do it in the UK too, but unfortunately it's a field beset with grifters.

    When dealing with them, just remember that:
    • cacao is just hot chocolate
    • laughter yoga involves neither real laughter nor real yoga
    • sexological bodywork is just sex work with less soap
    ...and you'll avoid the worst of the hippy scammers involved.
    Yes, there are scammers, frauds and cowboys, and this is not something where you should take risks, ayahuasca is risky enough in itself (tho most people are fine).

    I do know some good people and I know how to reach them
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,102
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Great. Now I've learned about Roko's Basilisk and I'm fucked

    Sounds like a budget Black Mirror episode.
    Here, you can read about it too, and then you are fucked as well

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk
    Have read it. Couldn't care less. Really.
    This is why I'm glad I'm going to die before my consciousness can be reproduced artificially with self-awareness. Any virtual environment can be turned into hell, and given the gehennas we create worldwide IRL I assume they will. No artificial intelligence will ever be as bad as we have been and will be again,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really pleased Leon decided not to post about AI today.
    Imagine the conversation if he hadn't.

    Have you ever considered "enhancing" your avatar pic via AI? OR your real photo (assuming two are not same)?
    Tut tut, that is Dixie Dean, one of the finest footballers in history. A Everton and England legend.

    You are obviously excused as someone who comes from a country where footballers use their hands.
    So "Dixie" is NOT politically-incorrect English misspelling of "Dizzy" as in a TRUE sporting legend, Dizzy Dean:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean
    The only true sporting legend is Max Woosnam. My favourite is him beating Charlie Chaplin at Table Tennis playing with a butter knife.

    “ Among his achievements were winning an Olympic gold and silver in tennis at the 1920 Summer Olympics,[6] winning the doubles at Wimbledon, compiling a 147 break in snooker, making a century at Lord's Cricket Ground, captaining the British Davis Cup team, captaining Manchester City F.C. finishing ultimately runners-up for the Football League Championship in 1920–21, and captaining the England national football team.[7] He also played football for Cambridge Town.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Woosnam
    Superb
    Heavy smoker all his life.
    Fought at Gallipoli and the Western Front.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    .
    The 'delay elections until 2029' bill.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited March 15
    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
    Does the passage of the Autumn Statement need some wash up itself, depending on what is announced, or would that just be a budget?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,796
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Great. Now I've learned about Roko's Basilisk and I'm fucked

    Sounds like a budget Black Mirror episode.
    Here, you can read about it too, and then you are fucked as well

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk
    Have read it. Couldn't care less. Really.
    This is why I'm glad I'm going to die before my consciousness can be reproduced artificially with self-awareness. Any virtual environment can be turned into hell, and given the gehennas we create worldwide IRL I assume they will. No artificial intelligence will ever be as bad as we have been and will be again,
    Oh you, clinging on to that last bit of hope.

    :: ruffles your hair and gives you a shiny farthing ::

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwfpVRVWlo

  • AlsoLei said:

    TOPPING said:

    @rcs1000 just an idle thought would it be possible in theory to scrape/take in the entirety of PB all comments by everyone.

    Then say you wanted to make an AI poster it would presumably have all the information about topics, inter-poster relationships, styles, etc to make seemingly informed and genuine seeming posts.

    It's been trivial to feed stuff like PB comments into a simple Markov chain system for the past 30 years or so. That'll give you the basic "predict the next word" output for a while - probably enough to give you a couple of plausible PB-ish comments before it goes mad. Try a 1990s version at https://www.jwz.org/dadadodo/

    The corpus of PB comments is too small to train an LLM by itself - but, yes, one of the big money-making opportunities here is around the more narrowly-focussed stuff like this.

    Perhaps not exactly "describe the relationship between TOPPING and Kinbalu on politicalbetting.com", but I guess you can imagine how that might be extended into things that businesses would find to be of real value.
    If you want to destroy AI, ask it to win an argument with Barty or HYFUD, or to ask it to convince TUD that the SNP are occasionally wrong.
    Actual intelligence can't do that. Indeed, intelligence is very much a disadvantage. So I hardly think this is a fair thing to ask the artificial kind to attempt.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    A great party, rotted from within, was defeated from without.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Just happened to flip on TV, and one of the El Cheapo broadcast movie channels is re-running "The Longest Day".

    AND by pure happenstance, happened to catch one of my favorite scenes. The one where British have landed on Sword beach, and two Tommies (one played by Sean Connery) encounter a proper pukka beachmaster and his bulldog "Winston".

    Half-track is stalled, driver says he thinks because of water in the works.

    BM: "My grandmother used to say, anything mechanical won't work, give it a good wack!" (Or something like that). And proceeds to do just that, with his cane (or some kind of very hefty swagger stick.)

    Driver tries again, engine fires up, "Thank you, sir!" and off he goes.

    Private Connery turns to his chum, "Now that's a real man." "Yeah - and I like his dog too."

    BM: "Why are you two just standing there? This isn't Hyde Park Corner - the war's that way," pointing inland with his Big Stick. . . .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    This from an admirer of Putin.
    Did he not notice it’s possible to leave the EU voluntarily ?

    Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orban urged his supporters to “occupy Brussels” during the upcoming European election.

    During his speech on the occasion of the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg rule, Orban compared the EU to imperial occupiers and called the Western world a source of cultural decay and destruction.

    "They start wars, destroy worlds, redraw countries’ borders and graze on everything like locusts We Hungarians live differently and want to live differently."

    The Prime Minister of Hungary said the European elections are a chance to stand up for Hungary:

    “Brussels is not the first empire that has set its eyes on Hungary. The peoples of Europe today are afraid that Brussels will take away their freedom... If we want to preserve Hungary’s freedom and sovereignty, we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels. We will march to Brussels and bring the change to the European Union ourselves." Orban stated.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1768712846987182244
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    18%?

    Either Sunak calls the election for 2nd May.

    Or we get to wait until PM Rehman Chisti has had time to form a government and lay out the bills for his vision of the future.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    By "dissolved" do you happen to know, if any vats of acid (and what kind?) may be involved, or maybe substituted?

    Asking for a friend. More than one really, more like 40 million or thereabouts, from Wick to Wack, and back.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    Nigelb said:

    This from an admirer of Putin.
    Did he not notice it’s possible to leave the EU voluntarily ?

    Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orban urged his supporters to “occupy Brussels” during the upcoming European election.

    During his speech on the occasion of the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg rule, Orban compared the EU to imperial occupiers and called the Western world a source of cultural decay and destruction.

    "They start wars, destroy worlds, redraw countries’ borders and graze on everything like locusts We Hungarians live differently and want to live differently."

    The Prime Minister of Hungary said the European elections are a chance to stand up for Hungary:

    “Brussels is not the first empire that has set its eyes on Hungary. The peoples of Europe today are afraid that Brussels will take away their freedom... If we want to preserve Hungary’s freedom and sovereignty, we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels. We will march to Brussels and bring the change to the European Union ourselves." Orban stated.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1768712846987182244

    Has someone told Victor that the Hungarians were defeated in 1849 due to the Russians helping the Austrians out?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750
    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Essentially a 60-40 split between Con and Refuk. Amazing.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Pro_Rata said:

    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
    Does the passage of the Autumn Statement need some wash up itself, depending on what is announced, or would that just be a budget?
    Usually, yes. Autumn Statement 2023 on 22nd November resulted in the Finance Bill 2023-24, which was debated on the 22nd, 23rd, and 27th November,

    I think that was largely a result of the NI changes, though - I suspect that a minimal autumn statement could be passed much more quickly if necessary.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    This from an admirer of Putin.
    Did he not notice it’s possible to leave the EU voluntarily ?

    Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orban urged his supporters to “occupy Brussels” during the upcoming European election.

    During his speech on the occasion of the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg rule, Orban compared the EU to imperial occupiers and called the Western world a source of cultural decay and destruction.

    "They start wars, destroy worlds, redraw countries’ borders and graze on everything like locusts We Hungarians live differently and want to live differently."

    The Prime Minister of Hungary said the European elections are a chance to stand up for Hungary:

    “Brussels is not the first empire that has set its eyes on Hungary. The peoples of Europe today are afraid that Brussels will take away their freedom... If we want to preserve Hungary’s freedom and sovereignty, we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels. We will march to Brussels and bring the change to the European Union ourselves." Orban stated.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1768712846987182244

    Nem! Nem! Soha!

    AND best regards from VO to the ghost of Lord Rothermere - the Man Who Could Have Been King of Hungary.

    Sorta (as contrasted with "Soha!)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,935
    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Essentially a 60-40 split between Con and Refuk. Amazing.
    Reform are going to have to find some non wacky candidates. (So are the Tories.)
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    18%?

    Either Sunak calls the election for 2nd May.

    Or we get to wait until PM Rehman Chisti has had time to form a government and lay out the bills for his vision of the future.

    Enough of your mocking of Chisti! Do you honestly think he'd do a worse job than Sunak?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Didn't we have this poll last week?
    Yes it's a week old
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,935
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    18%?

    Either Sunak calls the election for 2nd May.

    Or we get to wait until PM Rehman Chisti has had time to form a government and lay out the bills for his vision of the future.

    Well remember back in 1990s, when then-Gov. Mike Lowry (D-WA) was in midst of sexual harassment scandal that ended his once-thriving political career.

    Poll was released that showed his re-elect number was 19% freaking percent.

    Granted, this was in non-parliamentary, two-party (mostly) system; Lowry won 52% or ten-points higher than Boris Johson's Conservatives.

    Even so, 18% is pretty damn dire.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Didn't we have this poll last week?
    Yes we did. Incidentally though PeoplePolling have some more seat polls out:

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK

    TLDR: Lab gain, Lab gain, Lab gain, Lab gain.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,102

    Just happened to flip on TV, and one of the El Cheapo broadcast movie channels is re-running "The Longest Day".

    AND by pure happenstance, happened to catch one of my favorite scenes. The one where British have landed on Sword beach, and two Tommies (one played by Sean Connery) encounter a proper pukka beachmaster and his bulldog "Winston".

    Half-track is stalled, driver says he thinks because of water in the works.

    BM: "My grandmother used to say, anything mechanical won't work, give it a good wack!" (Or something like that). And proceeds to do just that, with his cane (or some kind of very hefty swagger stick.)

    Driver tries again, engine fires up, "Thank you, sir!" and off he goes.

    Private Connery turns to his chum, "Now that's a real man." "Yeah - and I like his dog too."

    BM: "Why are you two just standing there? This isn't Hyde Park Corner - the war's that way," pointing inland with his Big Stick. . . .

    If memory serves BM was played by Kenneth More https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_More .

    Incidentally the actor Richard Todd was in D-Day IRL and played a soldier in the action he was in. This resulted in Richard Todd (playing John Howard) talking to Patrick Jordan (playing Richard Todd)
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    The idea of Wee Jeffy Donaldson battling Kemi for the right to speak once in every seven weeks does have some appeal, though...
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    AlsoLei said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
    Does the passage of the Autumn Statement need some wash up itself, depending on what is announced, or would that just be a budget?
    Usually, yes. Autumn Statement 2023 on 22nd November resulted in the Finance Bill 2023-24, which was debated on the 22nd, 23rd, and 27th November,

    I think that was largely a result of the NI changes, though - I suspect that a minimal autumn statement could be passed much more quickly if necessary.
    But the point is that if they're having an Autumn Statement, they're going to have something in it which will need to be enacted.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    MikeL said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
    Does the passage of the Autumn Statement need some wash up itself, depending on what is announced, or would that just be a budget?
    Usually, yes. Autumn Statement 2023 on 22nd November resulted in the Finance Bill 2023-24, which was debated on the 22nd, 23rd, and 27th November,

    I think that was largely a result of the NI changes, though - I suspect that a minimal autumn statement could be passed much more quickly if necessary.
    But the point is that if they're having an Autumn Statement, they're going to have something in it which will need to be enacted.
    Sure, it implies a complete do-nothing autumn statement.

    But that's the point - by bottling a May election, the government finds itself in a situation where no plausible election date appeals. This implies a January GE, but they can't possibly... can they?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Nigelb said:

    This from an admirer of Putin.
    Did he not notice it’s possible to leave the EU voluntarily ?

    Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orban urged his supporters to “occupy Brussels” during the upcoming European election.

    During his speech on the occasion of the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg rule, Orban compared the EU to imperial occupiers and called the Western world a source of cultural decay and destruction.

    "They start wars, destroy worlds, redraw countries’ borders and graze on everything like locusts We Hungarians live differently and want to live differently."

    The Prime Minister of Hungary said the European elections are a chance to stand up for Hungary:

    “Brussels is not the first empire that has set its eyes on Hungary. The peoples of Europe today are afraid that Brussels will take away their freedom... If we want to preserve Hungary’s freedom and sovereignty, we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels. We will march to Brussels and bring the change to the European Union ourselves." Orban stated.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1768712846987182244

    Hungary should leave the EU . Of course Orban is happy to moan but wouldn’t dare leave as it would screw the economy .
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    AlsoLei said:

    18%?

    Either Sunak calls the election for 2nd May.

    Or we get to wait until PM Rehman Chisti has had time to form a government and lay out the bills for his vision of the future.

    Enough of your mocking of Chisti! Do you honestly think he'd do a worse job than Sunak?
    No! Better. I’m naming the mighty Rehman as the example of what happpens when the Tory party either defects to ReFUK, retires, etc
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    MikeL said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    CatMan said:
    That would mean Parliament would have to be dissolved by 5 September.

    But the Summer Recess has already been announced as 24 July to 10 September.

    So that would mean no Parliamentary wash-up - which surely would never happen as all Bills in progress would be lost.

    Unless Parliament was recalled just before the end of August - which also seems very unlikely given everyone would be on holiday.

    And that's all before considering it would mean no Autumn Statement.

    And also Charles (hopefully!) in Samoa on 21 October - so he may have left for Australia by then - and if not he would be very close to doing so.
    What bills in progress, though?

    Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation will have passed by then
    Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) ditto

    Does the govt really care that much about the Renters Reform or High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) bills?

    Final reshuffle, late August
    Parliament returns, 2nd September
    Autumn statement, 4th September
    Dissolution, 5th September

    Just about do-able...
    Does the passage of the Autumn Statement need some wash up itself, depending on what is announced, or would that just be a budget?
    Usually, yes. Autumn Statement 2023 on 22nd November resulted in the Finance Bill 2023-24, which was debated on the 22nd, 23rd, and 27th November,

    I think that was largely a result of the NI changes, though - I suspect that a minimal autumn statement could be passed much more quickly if necessary.
    But the point is that if they're having an Autumn Statement, they're going to have something in it which will need to be enacted.
    How ironic to delay the election until after an Autumn Statement which say 'nothing has changed'. Only Sunak could come up with such a masterplan.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Really pleased Leon decided not to post about AI today.
    Imagine the conversation if he hadn't.

    Apologies. Seriously

    I know it annoys people but the trouble is AI really is THE issue of the day, it is potentially the biggest story in human history, and it is rapidly unfolding right here right now, and this has been (yet another) incredible week of development, it is stupendously hard to ignore, especially on a day without any other news ("Geo Galloway not becoming Manchester mayor" doesn't really equal "the end of human society as we know it", does it?)

    Just look at that robot which @TOPPING thinks is fake

    One interesting thing is that quite a lot of people think it is fake, and they aren't all dumb. Why? Because it scares them, they WANT to believe it is fake
    I get that. But I don't understand it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857

    Nigelb said:

    This from an admirer of Putin.
    Did he not notice it’s possible to leave the EU voluntarily ?

    Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orban urged his supporters to “occupy Brussels” during the upcoming European election.

    During his speech on the occasion of the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg rule, Orban compared the EU to imperial occupiers and called the Western world a source of cultural decay and destruction.

    "They start wars, destroy worlds, redraw countries’ borders and graze on everything like locusts We Hungarians live differently and want to live differently."

    The Prime Minister of Hungary said the European elections are a chance to stand up for Hungary:

    “Brussels is not the first empire that has set its eyes on Hungary. The peoples of Europe today are afraid that Brussels will take away their freedom... If we want to preserve Hungary’s freedom and sovereignty, we have no other choice but to occupy Brussels. We will march to Brussels and bring the change to the European Union ourselves." Orban stated.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1768712846987182244

    Nem! Nem! Soha!

    AND best regards from VO to the ghost of Lord Rothermere - the Man Who Could Have Been King of Hungary.

    Sorta (as contrasted with "Soha!)
    After a series of serious Austrian defeats in 1849, the Austrian Empire came close to the brink of collapse. The new emperor Franz Joseph I had to call for Russian help in the name of the Holy Alliance.[10] In the hope of Russian military support, the young Emperor Franz Joseph kissed the hands of the Ruler of all the Russians in Warsaw on 21 May 1849.[11] Nicholas I of Russia agreed with Franz Joseph and sent a 200,000 strong army with 80,000 auxiliary forces. The joint Russo-Austrian army finally defeated the Hungarian forces, Habsburg power was restored and Hungary was placed under martial law.[12]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1848
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Roger said:

    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?

    Yeah, put an outright racist as part of the PLP. Genius.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited March 15
    Roger said:

    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?

    Does Abbott want to be back in the fold? She sure doesn't act like it on twitter...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    ...
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    The original mistake was dumping Boris Johnson, and she had clean hands there unlike Sunak.
  • AlsoLei said:

    Roger said:

    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?

    Does Abbott want to be back in the fold? She sure doesn't act like it on twitter...
    If she wants to be re-elected this year then I assume she's keen enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    I’m down by the pool. There is a woman here of such astonishing physical beauty it is making me faintly delirious and tangibly sad
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Leon said:

    I’m down by the pool. There is a woman here of such astonishing physical beauty it is making me faintly delirious and tangibly sad

    Your sadness is perceptible by touch?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    I know I promised not to talk about AI but I looked again at that video of the robot. It is incredible. It is also terrifying

    We are right on the edge now, yet most people are blithely unaware

    "that video of the robot"

    Could you provide a link please?

    Sure

    https://youtu.be/Sq1QZB5baNw?si=oN3TnvI1IvP7zVOl
    Thanks Leon
    That's brilliant. Here's another one.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/nmHzvQr3kYE?si=gA0eVxekiCexTmCl
    The first one missed that dirty crocks need a wash, but impressive.
    In case Leon is getting excited.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/kWePYEdVbhc?si=GMp52Zs02V9J_Tc6
    Are you claiming that the OpenAI robot is fake?
    I'm not claiming anything.

    No one has answered Topping's Paradox from earlier today btw.

    If an AI robot is asked whether it likes pineapple on pizza and answers yes does that thereby negate its supposed intelligence.
    I hope I'm not being obtuse by saying the AI model doesn't care one way or the other about pineapple on pizza.

    A slightly more sophisticated answer, a good model would respond to the question in the way that's most useful.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    Boris, you mean?

    Turn the taps on, and ignore what people do in their personal lives?

    Honestly, it's a programme that, in theory, appeals to me. And I can absolutely see the argument that Isam has made about charisma - there are really no competitors to Boris on that particular field.

    But we've tried turning the taps on.
    Result: HS2 cancelled, NHS near collapse, "No compelling examples of what levelling up has delivered, watchdog finds".

    And we've tried ignoring what people do in their personal lives.
    Result: Tractor porn in parliament. Pincher. Transphobia. Banning tents. Weaponised culture war.

    Boris was elected with a huge majority in 2019 - but the Tory party since then have gone out of their way to repudiate everything that he stood for. Who could possibly trust them enough to vote for them again?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,102

    Leon said:

    I’m down by the pool. There is a woman here of such astonishing physical beauty it is making me faintly delirious and tangibly sad

    Your sadness is perceptible by touch?
    That's not his sadness. Put it down and go wash your hands.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,678
    edited March 15

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    26th June, when/if England get knocked out of the Euros.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    I know I promised not to talk about AI but I looked again at that video of the robot. It is incredible. It is also terrifying

    We are right on the edge now, yet most people are blithely unaware

    "that video of the robot"

    Could you provide a link please?

    Sure

    https://youtu.be/Sq1QZB5baNw?si=oN3TnvI1IvP7zVOl
    Thanks Leon
    That's brilliant. Here's another one.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/nmHzvQr3kYE?si=gA0eVxekiCexTmCl
    The first one missed that dirty crocks need a wash, but impressive.
    In case Leon is getting excited.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/kWePYEdVbhc?si=GMp52Zs02V9J_Tc6
    Are you claiming that the OpenAI robot is fake?
    I'm not claiming anything.

    No one has answered Topping's Paradox from earlier today btw.

    If an AI robot is asked whether it likes pineapple on pizza and answers yes does that thereby negate its supposed intelligence.
    I hope I'm not being obtuse by saying the AI model doesn't care one way or the other about pineapple on pizza.

    A slightly more sophisticated answer, a good model would respond to the question in the way that's most useful.
    To put it another way usefulness matters more than intelligence.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,384

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    Is this the first time Reform poll higher than the Tories, or when a polling average puts them higher?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    Boris, you mean?

    Turn the taps on, and ignore what people do in their personal lives?

    Honestly, it's a programme that, in theory, appeals to me. And I can absolutely see the argument that Isam has made about charisma - there are really no competitors to Boris on that particular field.

    But we've tried turning the taps on.
    Result: HS2 cancelled, NHS near collapse, "No compelling examples of what levelling up has delivered, watchdog finds".

    And we've tried ignoring what people do in their personal lives.
    Result: Tractor porn in parliament. Pincher. Transphobia. Banning tents. Weaponised culture war.

    Boris was elected with a huge majority in 2019 - but the Tory party since then have gone out of their way to repudiate everything that he stood for. Who could possibly trust them enough to vote for them again?
    There were two big declines in Tory polling since the huge majority. The first was Boris not following COVID rules. The second was Truss and her ridiculous budget.

    The lesson is clearly that the general thrust behind the 2019 campaign is the right one. You just need to do it with someone that has greater personal character than Boris.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Eabhal said:

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    26th June, when/if England get knocked out of the Euros.
    I'll say mid-September, a week or so after Sunak bottles an October election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    I know I promised not to talk about AI but I looked again at that video of the robot. It is incredible. It is also terrifying

    We are right on the edge now, yet most people are blithely unaware

    "that video of the robot"

    Could you provide a link please?

    Sure

    https://youtu.be/Sq1QZB5baNw?si=oN3TnvI1IvP7zVOl
    Thanks Leon
    That's brilliant. Here's another one.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/nmHzvQr3kYE?si=gA0eVxekiCexTmCl
    The first one missed that dirty crocks need a wash, but impressive.
    In case Leon is getting excited.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/kWePYEdVbhc?si=GMp52Zs02V9J_Tc6
    Are you claiming that the OpenAI robot is fake?
    I'm not claiming anything.

    No one has answered Topping's Paradox from earlier today btw.

    If an AI robot is asked whether it likes pineapple on pizza and answers yes does that thereby negate its supposed intelligence.
    I hope I'm not being obtuse by saying the AI model doesn't care one way or the other about pineapple on pizza.

    A slightly more sophisticated answer, a good model would respond to the question in the way that's most useful.
    This is the problem. I don't want sophistication. I want intelligence. If AI is going to approximate human intelligence it needs to banana bread.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    The original mistake was dumping Boris Johnson, and she had clean hands there unlike Sunak.
    The original mistake was Boris's breaking of lockdown rules. He had become untenable after that. But the Truss appointment made things a lot worse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Great. Now I've learned about Roko's Basilisk and I'm fucked

    Sounds like a budget Black Mirror episode.
    Here, you can read about it too, and then you are fucked as well

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk
    Have read it. Couldn't care less. Really.
    This is why I'm glad I'm going to die before my consciousness can be reproduced artificially with self-awareness. Any virtual environment can be turned into hell, and given the gehennas we create worldwide IRL I assume they will. No artificial intelligence will ever be as bad as we have been and will be again,
    Not me.
    I will always want to see what happens next.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    WillG said:

    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    Boris, you mean?

    Turn the taps on, and ignore what people do in their personal lives?

    Honestly, it's a programme that, in theory, appeals to me. And I can absolutely see the argument that Isam has made about charisma - there are really no competitors to Boris on that particular field.

    But we've tried turning the taps on.
    Result: HS2 cancelled, NHS near collapse, "No compelling examples of what levelling up has delivered, watchdog finds".

    And we've tried ignoring what people do in their personal lives.
    Result: Tractor porn in parliament. Pincher. Transphobia. Banning tents. Weaponised culture war.

    Boris was elected with a huge majority in 2019 - but the Tory party since then have gone out of their way to repudiate everything that he stood for. Who could possibly trust them enough to vote for them again?
    There were two big declines in Tory polling since the huge majority. The first was Boris not following COVID rules. The second was Truss and her ridiculous budget.

    The lesson is clearly that the general thrust behind the 2019 campaign is the right one. You just need to do it with someone that has greater personal character than Boris.
    Who, then, could be Boris-without-being-Boris?

    The answer, surely, has to be Mordaunt. And she seems to be popular enough with the party members that she might actually win if she were to reach the final two.

    But how do we get to that point? Which Tory MPs are going to knife Sunak in order to get Mordaunt?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    I don’t think it will happen. More than that, I don’t think the current Reform numbers are sustainable. They will drift back, and yes they’ll largely drift back to the conservatives.

    Why? Reform is an empty vessel. They are led by a nobody. They are not standing in local elections, have no meaningful policies, don’t really even have a coherent vision other than half arsed poujadisme and a sort of GBNews old bloke down the pub populism.

    I am calling, moonrabbit style, peak Reform. They’ll hover around the 12-14% mark in a few polls but come the locals they’ll start dying off. Same happened to BXP after the 2019 Euros when they were beaten in seat numbers by the Lib Dems.

    Con will rise quite rapidly from their current 23-26% to around 28-30%. Labour will tick up a tad to around 45%. LD will recover to 11%. Reform will settle on 8-9% among the favourable pollsters and 5-6% among the rest.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Roger said:

    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?

    No votes in that Roger. Votes > seats > power > action.

    I felt it was wrong not to allow Abbott to speak at PMQs but she does not deserve to have the whip reinstated. She made a terrible anti-semitic comment in a letter to a national newspaper. Her apology is welcome but does not right the wrong, any more than Hester's apology does for his racist misogynist comments.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    WillG said:

    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    Boris, you mean?

    Turn the taps on, and ignore what people do in their personal lives?

    Honestly, it's a programme that, in theory, appeals to me. And I can absolutely see the argument that Isam has made about charisma - there are really no competitors to Boris on that particular field.

    But we've tried turning the taps on.
    Result: HS2 cancelled, NHS near collapse, "No compelling examples of what levelling up has delivered, watchdog finds".

    And we've tried ignoring what people do in their personal lives.
    Result: Tractor porn in parliament. Pincher. Transphobia. Banning tents. Weaponised culture war.

    Boris was elected with a huge majority in 2019 - but the Tory party since then have gone out of their way to repudiate everything that he stood for. Who could possibly trust them enough to vote for them again?
    There were two big declines in Tory polling since the huge majority. The first was Boris not following COVID rules. The second was Truss and her ridiculous budget.

    The lesson is clearly that the general thrust behind the 2019 campaign is the right one. You just need to do it with someone that has greater personal character than Boris.
    Not possible, unfortunately.

    Lots of public spending without tax rises?

    Freedom for me, but not for thee?

    Having your cake and eating it?

    It sounds great in a speech or a manifesto, but it's not actually doable. And anyone with even an ounce more integrity than Boris knows that and couldn't campaign on a Borisite platform.

    It always ends with some version of badly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,735
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    The original mistake was dumping Boris Johnson, and she had clean hands there unlike Sunak.
    The original mistake was Boris's breaking of lockdown rules. He had become untenable after that. But the Truss appointment made things a lot worse.
    Sub 20%.

    Dire.

    I did wonder aloud on here what the weekend's polling would bring after this week's appalling behaviour from the Tories.

  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    The original mistake was dumping Boris Johnson, and she had clean hands there unlike Sunak.
    The original mistake was Boris's breaking of lockdown rules. He had become untenable after that. But the Truss appointment made things a lot worse.
    Yes. I don’t really follow this narrative of Boris being somehow stabbed in the back or wrongfully deposed. He brought it all on himself. Any decent person would have resigned, but he had to hang on (like a limpet up a whale’s arse, as M Tucker would have it).

    Dumping him wasn’t a mistake; his position was untenable.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Roger said:

    Maybe Labour need a bit of a shake up. Like most Labour supporters I've invested a lot of hope in Starmer and made the usual excuses when he seemed to be disappointing. Then when he became REALLY disappointing I could always remind myself that at least he wouldn't have given Suella a job or have even dreamt of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda.......

    But why can't he just for once do something because it's the right thing to do?

    Maybe like reinstating Diane Abbott without worrying what some some right wing editor might say?

    Suella's only defending a 42.5% majority in Fareham & Waterlooville, it would be appalling for PM SKS not to offer her a job, maybe High Commissioner to Rwanda?

  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,252
    Poo Corner

    Just when you thought Wales couldn't get any worse,

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68574837

    So glad I moved to England 50 years ago.

    But not to Cheltenham, obviously...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-68574938

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    You accentuating the positive for them, then ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Didn't we have this poll last week?
    Yes we did. Incidentally though PeoplePolling have some more seat polls out:

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK

    TLDR: Lab gain, Lab gain, Lab gain, Lab gain.
    A near-Goodwin.

    But a miss is a mile.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    Annoyed at More in Common for the 11% lowest Labour polling lead on route though. Any chance whatever of the Tories bettering that in the next 2.5 weeks?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099
    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    I thought this might be the first time that the Ref+Grn vote was higher than the Tories, but it happened previously in late January.

    I don't know that this means anything!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    The original mistake was dumping Boris Johnson, and she had clean hands there unlike Sunak.
    The original mistake was Boris's breaking of lockdown rules. He had become untenable after that. But the Truss appointment made things a lot worse.
    If you want to go back that far then the mistake was making the lockdown rules too prescriptive instead of giving people some leeway to use their common sense.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    viewcode said:

    Just happened to flip on TV, and one of the El Cheapo broadcast movie channels is re-running "The Longest Day".

    AND by pure happenstance, happened to catch one of my favorite scenes. The one where British have landed on Sword beach, and two Tommies (one played by Sean Connery) encounter a proper pukka beachmaster and his bulldog "Winston".

    Half-track is stalled, driver says he thinks because of water in the works.

    BM: "My grandmother used to say, anything mechanical won't work, give it a good wack!" (Or something like that). And proceeds to do just that, with his cane (or some kind of very hefty swagger stick.)

    Driver tries again, engine fires up, "Thank you, sir!" and off he goes.

    Private Connery turns to his chum, "Now that's a real man." "Yeah - and I like his dog too."

    BM: "Why are you two just standing there? This isn't Hyde Park Corner - the war's that way," pointing inland with his Big Stick. . . .

    If memory serves BM was played by Kenneth More https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_More .

    Incidentally the actor Richard Todd was in D-Day IRL and played a soldier in the action he was in. This resulted in Richard Todd (playing John Howard) talking to Patrick Jordan (playing Richard Todd)
    Certainly knew his lines backward and forward.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,751
    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    AlsoLei said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Rishi determined to wait until they’re in single figures ?

    NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46%
    CON: 18%
    REFORM: 13%
    LIB: 10%
    GREEN: 7%
    SNP: 4%
    OTHER: 2%

    via @PeoplePolling, 07 Mar

    https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1768652854879731771

    Someone Baxtered this and it gives the Tories 24 seats and the LDs 48, IIRC

    The SNP get 22, so almost as many as the Tories
    Imagine if the Tories were the fourth party at Westminster. They wouldn’t even get a weekly question at PMQs!
    They are really paying for the disastrous choice of the unhinged libertarian Truss as PM. When in reality the opportunity to be socially and economically populist is the winning ticket.
    Boris, you mean?

    Turn the taps on, and ignore what people do in their personal lives?

    Honestly, it's a programme that, in theory, appeals to me. And I can absolutely see the argument that Isam has made about charisma - there are really no competitors to Boris on that particular field.

    But we've tried turning the taps on.
    Result: HS2 cancelled, NHS near collapse, "No compelling examples of what levelling up has delivered, watchdog finds".

    And we've tried ignoring what people do in their personal lives.
    Result: Tractor porn in parliament. Pincher. Transphobia. Banning tents. Weaponised culture war.

    Boris was elected with a huge majority in 2019 - but the Tory party since then have gone out of their way to repudiate everything that he stood for. Who could possibly trust them enough to vote for them again?
    There were two big declines in Tory polling since the huge majority. The first was Boris not following COVID rules. The second was Truss and her ridiculous budget.

    The lesson is clearly that the general thrust behind the 2019 campaign is the right one. You just need to do it with someone that has greater personal character than Boris.
    Who, then, could be Boris-without-being-Boris?

    The answer, surely, has to be Mordaunt. And she seems to be popular enough with the party members that she might actually win if she were to reach the final two.

    But how do we get to that point? Which Tory MPs are going to knife Sunak in order to get Mordaunt?
    She's the only one really capable of taking the fight to Labour and may well have done so had the Tories not made the disastrous decision to prioritise right-wing idealogical purity by electing Truss, instead of electability. Too late now, I guess. Rishi was always the "safe pair of hands" option but after the Truss debacle you really need to take a risk to have a chance, and the risk (electing Mordaunt) wasn't taken.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,735
    Paul Waugh
    @paulwaugh
    ·
    1h
    I used to think the 'crossover point' wd be when the Tories under Sunak dipped lower than Truss.
    Will the new crossover point will be Reform nudging ahead of the Tories?
    Hard to believe but this has been a strange old few years..

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1768724287815291165
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Pro_Rata said:

    We should have had a further PB Prediction question: Tory RefUK cross-over date.

    I predict mid-April but failing that sometime w/c 6th May, after the Locals

    Annoyed at More in Common for the 11% lowest Labour polling lead on route though. Any chance whatever of the Tories bettering that in the next 2.5 weeks?
    Me too. And no.
This discussion has been closed.