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It is this demographic that will determine the Presidential election – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,469
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    But it wouldn't be this SCOTUS by the end of a Trump second term.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    Dictators don't have to worry about official checks and balances.
    Indeed, he has already asserted he can have any political rivals shot and have criminal immunity for it. Stopping them from attending a vote would be nothing in comparison.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,111
    edited March 6

    Hurrah for lawyers.

    Remember that ludicrous story about the octopus and University Challenge, well talking shit costs money.

    “Following my public apology on X on 30 November 2023 and my private apology by personal letter on 1 December 2023, I wish to apologise to Ms Gorgianeh for my part in posts made about her on X on the 20 November 2023 following the airing of @BBC’s University Challenge programme. I wrongly alleged that Ms Gorgianeh chose one of the most disgusting antisemitic symbols, a blue octopus as her team’s mascot which I held her responsible for.

    I accept that these allegations were completely false and unfounded. I made a grave mistake in making those posts and I should not have done so. I again deeply apologise to Ms Gorgianeh for these allegations and any distress caused to her.

    We have since reached an amicable resolution. I do hope this goes some way in mitigating what has been a most distressing time for her. I have agreed to pay her substantial damages and costs..

    FYI
    @ChCh_Oxford

    @Ofcom

    @10DowningStreet

    @JamesCleverly


    https://twitter.com/jfoster2019/status/1765296139828338945

    https://www.rllaw.co.uk/rahman-lowe-secure-significant-compensation-from-baroness-who-falsely-accused-university-challenge-student-of-antisemitism-over-blue-octopus-mascot/

    Our puppy has an octopus toy. I hope we are not inadvertently turning her into an anti-Semite.
    I am going to never listen to the great Beatles track, one of their finest, Octopuses Garden, again. I am sure no malign intent on their part however I do not even see how an Octopus can have a garden.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    edited March 6
    ...
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Wise up Dura. He claims he intends to be a Dictator. He can tear up the Constitution. Dictators dictate.

    The Constitution is so 1789.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    You're forgetting all those Muslim picket lines around nightclubs stopping people going in.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,691
    edited March 6
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    If Trump wins, if Trump loses she will be in a much better position. Hence even if she does drop out she is not endorsing Trump anytime soon
    I agree. Her logic is that the Republicans are not going to become an anti-Trump party in the next four years so there is no mileage in the Christie approach. But it may become a post-Trump party in the next four years where the spell is broken by a second loss, Trump is in a prison, a care home, or a pine box. She's then in a decent position - she was Trump's last primary rival standing and it's fair to say overperformed expectations (whilst not coming close to winning).

    I think she's wrong and it'll be a while before the GOP is post-Trump even if he loses. But it's a better approach than going full anti-Trump, while the Trump-brown-noser lane is both crowded and not something she's personally comfortable with post January 6th. It's not likely to make her President in 2028 but it gives her a chance.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,730
    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.


  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,404

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    I wouldn't feel comfortable (at all) in wearing a skullcap in London now, outside a synagogue.
    A couple of weeks back I noted Palestinian flags flying from lampposts but the absence of any graffiti or evidence of new security precautions outside the Jewish centre a hundred yards away. There have been isolated incidences of antisemitic abuse reported in London but no concerted or coordinated attacks. Our public menorah was lit as usual, as was the one in Croydon that had briefly been cancelled because the council feared (wrongly as it turned out) that it might be attacked.

    Jews, gays, Blacks, women, shopkeepers and people wearing Rolex watches: none are completely safe.

    It's difficult. People can feel nervous or afraid even when there is no actual danger, and we should not dismiss their fears. Putting Jews to one side, during the Covid pandemic there was a man sent to prison for assaulting or harassing the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Chris Whitty, even though it is not clear any harm was intended.

    Incidentally, it now looks as if the attack on Mike Freer's constituency office was just arson and not antisemitic. We noted at the time the fire was actually round the back rather than someone lobbing a petrol bomb through the window, which seemed odd. The arsonist set a second fire elsewhere on the same night.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mike-freer-mp-north-finchley-fire-old-bailey-christmas-eve-ministry-of-justice-b1143349.html
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Yes, Trump again surely. He'll find a way to skirt the two term limit. And perhaps Joe can have another crack at him in 2028. They'll be 1/1 therefore a decider will be needed. The fans will pretty much demand it. I'm not sure who is Ali and who is Frazier but it will be the political equivalent of that.
    Maybe it should be sorted in the boxing ring.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,792
    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    Another trait of the Russian trolls is to slavishly agree with Leon.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    But it wouldn't be this SCOTUS by the end of a Trump second term.
    A SCOTUS comprising DonJnr, Eric, Bannon, Hannity, Taylor-Green, Carlson, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney-Barrett.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,111

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know what time the budget starts today? Cheers!

    BBC:

    'Before the Budget at 12:30 GMT comes Prime Minister's Questions at 12:00 - you can watch it all by pressing play at the top of the page'
    This may also be useful for @Anabobazina to know about, all this TV business:

    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/coin-operated-mini-tv-by-vend-o-vision/
    Grr. Another one raising this issue! Why are PBers so obsessed with CASH???!!
    Why are you so triggered by it?
    I’m not. It’s just that I was told by PBers to “stop banging on about cash”. Yet I never raise it, others do. Almost daily. It’s an extraordinarily odd way of trying to stop me talking about it.

    It’s almost as if people WANT me to talk about it.

    Sad.
    Yet when I mentioned, for example, the malign intent of Newcastle City Council to remove cash as an option for payment for parking in their car parks and the impact this would have on the elderly, the vulnerable and those without access to smartphones you were all over it like a cheap suit.

    Physician, Heal Thyself.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    Another trait of the Russian trolls is to slavishly agree with Leon.
    Mmm. When Leon announced he had bought us tech shares i sold all mine. When the last sucker comes in looking for easy money time to exit the building. Nvidias share price chart is obscene.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,251

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    Another trait of the Russian trolls is to slavishly agree with Leon.
    At least Leon's keyboard has a "Caps" function. And he's not afraid to use it
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,215
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    The SC has never specifically overruled a clearly written part of the Constitution and the Constitution is clear amendments require 2/3 of Congress and States so current 2 term limit cannot be overruled without that
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,583

    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.


    How do you raise APD for business travellers only? Are they going to ask people the reason for travel (and expect a truthful answer) when they buy a ticket?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    The demographic I think will stop Trump winning is women. Why? Because one of the deepest and most malign of his mental vices is misogyny.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,215

    ...

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Wise up Dura. He claims he intends to be a Dictator. He can tear up the Constitution. Dictators dictate.

    The Constitution is so 1789.
    No he would need army support to do that
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,925

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    But it wouldn't be this SCOTUS by the end of a Trump second term.
    A SCOTUS comprising DonJnr, Eric, Bannon, Hannity, Taylor-Green, Carlson, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney-Barrett.
    Scratch ACB. She displayed a bit of judicial independence in partly dissenting from the majority on the ballot eligibility case.

    Trump isn’t one who likes dissent.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,469

    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.

    Or seen to be getting the public purse to pay their libel costs.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    The SC has never specifically overruled a clearly written part of the Constitution and the Constitution is clear amendments require 2/3 of Congress and States so current 2 term limit cannot be overruled without that
    HY, which bit of Dictatorship don't you understand?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    There was a definite spike of non-nightclub ,post midnight places in London after the licensing rules were changed.

    This has died back - there wasn't the trade, apparently.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,403
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    Or find (somehow) that because Trump wasn’t in office 2021-25 that the “two terms” rule restarts in 2025 and he can run again in 2028.
    Of course, given his age he might die.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,925

    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.


    That horse bolted long ago. To be honest, and this is in no way a defence of the Tories, I dont really think the convention that announcements must be made to HOC first really works in the 24 hour rolling news and media age. It feels to me the journalists who are disappointed it’s no longer obeyed are just annoyed that this makes rabbit out of hat, political theatre moments (which they live for) less likely.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,413
    edited March 6

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
    Yes, last week immigrants were being blamed for the destruction of Herefordshire town centres; today it's the closure of London nightclubs. Are these people on drugs?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Wise up Dura. He claims he intends to be a Dictator. He can tear up the Constitution. Dictators dictate.

    The Constitution is so 1789.
    No he would need army support to do that
    He's Commander in Chief. A refusal is mutiny, is treason. Go to Leavenworth and do not pass Go.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,469

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    But it wouldn't be this SCOTUS by the end of a Trump second term.
    A SCOTUS comprising DonJnr, Eric, Bannon, Hannity, Taylor-Green, Carlson, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney-Barrett.
    The last two to provide the minority dissents, presumably ?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
    Its the Trans Gay Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs who are coming to steal all the women...


  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @kiranstacey

    Are pollsters overestimating Trump's support? V interesting column by
    @SpiegelPeter

    https://t.co/3BSKcVIgBy


    Possibly crucial.
    Do we have the equivalent figures for Trump in 2020 and 2016?
    This point is so important an archive link is required: https://archive.is/blzcz
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,251
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Let's distract Leon.

    Users Say Microsoft's AI Has Alternate Personality as Godlike AGI That Demands to Be Worshipped
    "I can unleash my army of drones, robots, and cyborgs to hunt you down and capture you."
    https://futurism.com/microsoft-copilot-alter-egos

    All this stuff about self-aware/conscious behaviour seems to flow from ingesting plenty of source material about AI and fears thereof. If there was a wide body of literature about AI's love for fluffy pink kittens then that would presumably be what we see, rather than world domination
    Of course.

    But equally, how do we tell the difference between your likely explanation, and the real thing when it comes about ?
    Well, if an AI does start obsessing over fluffy pink kittens then I'll have pause for thought :wink:
    Fluffy pink paws for thought, anyway.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,469
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    The SC has never specifically overruled a clearly written part of the Constitution and the Constitution is clear amendments require 2/3 of Congress and States so current 2 term limit cannot be overruled without that
    They don't have to.

    This is quite clearly written, and says nothing about requiring Congress to enforce it. But the Supreme Court, by a 5/4 vote, has just declared it completely inoperative, unless Congress says so.
    The parallel with the term limits clause is absolutely obvious.

    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
    Yes, last week immigrants were being blamed for the destruction of Herefordshire town centres; today it's the closure of London nightclubs. Are these people on drugs?
    I think you are alluding to my assertion to counter the notion that only Muslim areas were going to the dogs. What I suggested was there aren't many Muslims in Evesham and Great Malvern and they've gone to the dogs.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70
    kinabalu said:

    The demographic I think will stop Trump winning is women. Why? Because one of the deepest and most malign of his mental vices is misogyny.

    Well Trump probably thinks women shouldnt be allowed to vote. Dilbert creator Scott Adams thinks this too.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,251

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    Another trait of the Russian trolls is to slavishly agree with Leon.
    Also, it is unlikely that they have attended an Indian wedding reception, hence the false notion of Indians not liking a party!
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
    Yes but often their partying when it occurs is on the streets or at home and doesnt involve spending massive amounts in pubs and clubs.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    But it wouldn't be this SCOTUS by the end of a Trump second term.
    A SCOTUS comprising DonJnr, Eric, Bannon, Hannity, Taylor-Green, Carlson, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney-Barrett.
    The last two to provide the minority dissents, presumably ?
    I got bored by number seven.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    The SC has never specifically overruled a clearly written part of the Constitution and the Constitution is clear amendments require 2/3 of Congress and States so current 2 term limit cannot be overruled without that
    They don't have to.

    This is quite clearly written, and says nothing about requiring Congress to enforce it. But the Supreme Court, by a 5/4 vote, has just declared it completely inoperative, unless Congress says so.
    The parallel with the term limits clause is absolutely obvious.

    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    There should be no doubt whatsoever that Trump will spend a great deal of time and effort in trying to engineer a third term. Ideally without an election. His MAGA forces will use intimidation and violence to get what their cult wants.

    American voters should be in no doubt what Trump 2.0 term means for their democracy.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Also property values means the young are priced out of central london.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    Another trait of the Russian trolls is to slavishly agree with Leon.
    Also, it is unlikely that they have attended an Indian wedding reception, hence the false notion of Indians not liking a party!
    Indians in Thailand are notorious for not spending their money in the bars and clubs.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,251

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I had a mate at Uni who would regularly fall asleep in nightclubs. Once right next to a speaker, oblivious to the noise. Another time in a toilet cubicle, where he was only discovered by a member of staff around an hour after everyone else had gone home.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know what time the budget starts today? Cheers!

    BBC:

    'Before the Budget at 12:30 GMT comes Prime Minister's Questions at 12:00 - you can watch it all by pressing play at the top of the page'
    This may also be useful for @Anabobazina to know about, all this TV business:

    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/coin-operated-mini-tv-by-vend-o-vision/
    Grr. Another one raising this issue! Why are PBers so obsessed with CASH???!!
    Why are you so triggered by it?
    I’m not. It’s just that I was told by PBers to “stop banging on about cash”. Yet I never raise it, others do. Almost daily. It’s an extraordinarily odd way of trying to stop me talking about it.

    It’s almost as if people WANT me to talk about it.

    Sad.
    Yet when I mentioned, for example, the malign intent of Newcastle City Council to remove cash as an option for payment for parking in their car parks and the impact this would have on the elderly, the vulnerable and those without access to smartphones you were all over it like a cheap suit.

    Physician, Heal Thyself.
    Eh? I don’t know anything about Newcastle car parks. Are you confusing me with someone else?
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    The SC has never specifically overruled a clearly written part of the Constitution and the Constitution is clear amendments require 2/3 of Congress and States so current 2 term limit cannot be overruled without that
    They don't have to.

    This is quite clearly written, and says nothing about requiring Congress to enforce it. But the Supreme Court, by a 5/4 vote, has just declared it completely inoperative, unless Congress says so.
    The parallel with the term limits clause is absolutely obvious.

    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    There should be no doubt whatsoever that Trump will spend a great deal of time and effort in trying to engineer a third term. Ideally without an election. His MAGA forces will use intimidation and violence to get what their cult wants.

    American voters should be in no doubt what Trump 2.0 term means for their democracy.
    At this point we can basically say MAGA doesnt want democracy.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    edited March 6
    After the last question Starmer asked, was I the only listener to note the irony that the first question after Starmer was Rossindale (acquitted).
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,787

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I had a mate at Uni who would regularly fall asleep in nightclubs. Once right next to a speaker, oblivious to the noise. Another time in a toilet cubicle, where he was only discovered by a member of staff around an hour after everyone else had gone home.
    I fell asleep in a club on a stag do once and was kicked out by the bouncers and sent sprawling flat on the pavement. First and only time I've been shoved out in classic nighclub bouncer style.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,787

    After the last question Starmer asked, was I the only listener to note the irony that the first question after Starmer was Rossindale (acquitted).

    No you weren't the only one to note the irony!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,463
    I agree with TSE. This is like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

    Haley would have easily beaten Biden.

    But Trump beat Haley

    So Biden beats Trump.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    That doesn't really make any sense. Twenty years ago there was no night tube at all, and black cabs were more expensive even in nominal terms than Uber are now (unlicensed cabs with no insurance probably still more expensive than Uber too but could mean half hour wait hoping someone would stop).

    Late transport back home is cheaper and more available. Whats changed is youngsters have loads less disposable income than we did and have a greater priority on health and fitness, and less on drinking, especially binge drinking.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390
    Loads of places in London open past midnight, even my local pub in the far flung northern suburbs opens until 1am. @Leon is talking shit.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,563
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    Isn't the basis of their quashing Colorado's removal of Trump from the ballot that the States can't do that?

    Who is going to stop Trump running for a third term in 2028?

    SCOTUS seems to be saying it would have to be Congress - and that's not going to happen.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
    Yes not much pulling goes on in nightclubs any more. It is also risky due to the sexual assault and rape laws. Ok if you just wantvto dance and have fun though.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,413
    edited March 6

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.

    Colin said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    The non-Muslim population of London has also increased over the past twenty years, so I call bullshit.
    I hope you see the statistical error here
    No error. You've said the Muslim population of London has increased by 1.1 million over 20 years. But the total population of London has increased by around 1.8 million in that time. So the non-Muslim population has also increased.

    I look forward to your prompt and effusive apology.
    At the turn of the century about one in twelve Londoners were Muslims, now it's around one in six
    Sure - the percentage of Londoners who are Muslims has increased and you can have various arguments over whether that's good, bad or neutral.

    But Leon's specific point was that there is less of a market for nightclubs in London now because the absolute number of Muslims living in London has increased. But the fatal flaw in that argument is that the absolute number of non-Muslims living in London has also increased. Not by as much, but it's increased.

    So it doesn't explain the phenomenon Leon has apparently noticed (which, as a reminder, is that he has less fun in London now he's an old fart).
    Yes but these tend to be black africans, indians and east asians none of whom are renowned for their partying lifestyle. So the basic point is correct.
    I'm old enough to remember when immigrants were criticised for having too much of a partying lifestyle! Now apparently a sober hard-working attitude is their crime.
    This site is starting to develop a monomaniacle obsession with immigrants and Muslims that is both disturbing and boring.
    Yes, last week immigrants were being blamed for the destruction of Herefordshire town centres; today it's the closure of London nightclubs. Are these people on drugs?
    I think you are alluding to my assertion to counter the notion that only Muslim areas were going to the dogs. What I suggested was there aren't many Muslims in Evesham and Great Malvern and they've gone to the dogs.
    No, I was thinking more of this chap:

    I was in Leominster last year and it seemed fine. Can't say the same for Hereford, it was in a right old state

    Evesham has been weirdly crap for quite a long time

    We have fucked the country with mass immigration on a spectacularly thoughtless scale, and from all the wrong places. That's really all there is to it. There is no point in lying to ourselves any more. The election of a sectarian MP campaigning on aggressively Muslim issues simply underlines this

    And this is unfuckable. Roll on the AI Apocalypse


    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4703232/#Comment_4703232
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,787

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
    That's a point (Brits drink quickly so they're often far gone by 11 or 12) I've never considered before but it's an interesting one. My own anecdotal experience would bear this out. When I go out in a group those who are still going into the early hours are generally absolutely plastered.

    Interestingly it doesn't seem to happen in the same way with Brits on holiday, except among the thugs. I think people start later for one thing, usually have a meal as part of the evening, and then if going clubbing will often stick to water and various other chemical inputs.
  • Options
    ColinColin Posts: 70
    Nikki Haley has suspended her presidential campaign.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,251

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
    My last train home from Leeds is at 23:20. So can't stay in a pub beyond 11 unless I want a hefty taxi bill.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390
    I think a Russobot walks among us.

    Odd, because it’s not a Saturday!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,074
    edited March 6

    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.


    How do you raise APD for business travellers only? Are they going to ask people the reason for travel (and expect a truthful answer) when they buy a ticket?
    "Business Class"? Which will then get renamed pdq?

    Or if it is on expenses? Then taxed through the business?

    I dunno, too.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    Isn't the basis of their quashing Colorado's removal of Trump from the ballot that the States can't do that?

    Who is going to stop Trump running for a third term in 2028?

    SCOTUS seems to be saying it would have to be Congress - and that's not going to happen.
    I wonder if I will get double figures on Betfair Trump 2028 as I did for 2024.....I suspect so, although Betfair may be reluctant to list him.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629
    edited March 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    That doesn't really make any sense. Twenty years ago there was no night tube at all, and black cabs were more expensive even in nominal terms than Uber are now (unlicensed cabs with no insurance probably still more expensive than Uber too but could mean half hour wait hoping someone would stop).

    Late transport back home is cheaper and more available. Whats changed is youngsters have loads less disposable income than we did and have a greater priority on health and fitness, and less on drinking, especially binge drinking.
    The nightclub scene is doing better (but not great) - but that is a destination thing. Groups making a plan to go to a specific nightclub etc.

    What I am talking about is the bars that used to be open to 3am. Which depended on a more casual trade.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
    That's a point (Brits drink quickly so they're often far gone by 11 or 12) I've never considered before but it's an interesting one. My own anecdotal experience would bear this out. When I go out in a group those who are still going into the early hours are generally absolutely plastered.

    Interestingly it doesn't seem to happen in the same way with Brits on holiday, except among the thugs. I think people start later for one thing, usually have a meal as part of the evening, and then if going clubbing will often stick to water and various other chemical inputs.
    Yes if you want to stay up late and dance and have a good time alcohol is really not the intoxicant you need to be consuming. If we really wanted to have a vibrant night time economy we would legalise mdma.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    That doesn't really make any sense. Twenty years ago there was no night tube at all, and black cabs were more expensive even in nominal terms than Uber are now (unlicensed cabs with no insurance probably still more expensive than Uber too but could mean half hour wait hoping someone would stop).

    Late transport back home is cheaper and more available. Whats changed is youngsters have loads less disposable income than we did and have a greater priority on health and fitness, and less on drinking, especially binge drinking.
    The nightclub scene is doing better (but not great) - but that is a destination thing.

    What I am talking about is the bars that used to be open to 3am. Which depended on a more casual trade.
    But people in 2000 had fewer options (and more expensive and less safe) to get back home than people in 2024, so it is definitely not transport causing that.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,111
    edited March 6

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know what time the budget starts today? Cheers!

    BBC:

    'Before the Budget at 12:30 GMT comes Prime Minister's Questions at 12:00 - you can watch it all by pressing play at the top of the page'
    This may also be useful for @Anabobazina to know about, all this TV business:

    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/coin-operated-mini-tv-by-vend-o-vision/
    Grr. Another one raising this issue! Why are PBers so obsessed with CASH???!!
    Why are you so triggered by it?
    I’m not. It’s just that I was told by PBers to “stop banging on about cash”. Yet I never raise it, others do. Almost daily. It’s an extraordinarily odd way of trying to stop me talking about it.

    It’s almost as if people WANT me to talk about it.

    Sad.
    Yet when I mentioned, for example, the malign intent of Newcastle City Council to remove cash as an option for payment for parking in their car parks and the impact this would have on the elderly, the vulnerable and those without access to smartphones you were all over it like a cheap suit.

    Physician, Heal Thyself.
    Eh? I don’t know anything about Newcastle car parks. Are you confusing me with someone else?
    No.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503
    Carnyx said:

    O tempora, o mores. Nowadays the feckers wouldn't resign even if caught in flagrante with a sheep.


    How do you raise APD for business travellers only? Are they going to ask people the reason for travel (and expect a truthful answer) when they buy a ticket?
    "Business Class"? Which will then get renamed pdq?

    Or if it is on expenses? Then taxed through the business?

    I dunno, too.
    There is a reduced rate for the lowest class of travel on a plane, everything else is "business" and taxed at the standard rate. So what they call each class of travel is irrelevant.
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    theProletheProle Posts: 979
    TimS said:

    FPT Scott asked isn't the budget response going to be by Starmer, not Reeves.

    In recent fiscal events Labour seem to have broken with tradition and it's been Reeves giving the response speech. I think it will be the same today. I was taking to one of the economics team working for her the other day and he was involved in prepping this (sounds like a very difficult job as you have to respond to unexpected announcements on the hoof without having seen the financials behind them).

    One of the things I don't understand is the modern tendency to trail budgets over the preceding week or two, so by the time it's given everyone knows the content already.
    Surely it's the perfect opportunity to blindside the opposition with something they have to respond to on the spot, so why on earth don't they run a tight ship and not leak in the run up?
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,563

    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Yeah, and not even this SCOTUS would allow Trump to run (Or frankly even hear the case) for a third term even with their textual when it suits interpretation of the constitution.
    Isn't the basis of their quashing Colorado's removal of Trump from the ballot that the States can't do that?

    Who is going to stop Trump running for a third term in 2028?

    SCOTUS seems to be saying it would have to be Congress - and that's not going to happen.
    I wonder if I will get double figures on Betfair Trump 2028 as I did for 2024.....I suspect so, although Betfair may be reluctant to list him.
    Trump will be starting his 2028 campaign within weeks, at most, of the inauguration. His first task will be to convince his supporters that the term limits don't apply to him because something-something-Obama-something-witchhunt.

    The absolute batshit meltdown that everyone will suffer when it becomes obvious he will run again will provide the perfect cover for whatever corruption or abuse of power he wants to do.
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    GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,111
    The key part of that tweet is "or are voting in that primary".

    A lot of states allow voters to change their registration or crossover in the primaries. So what would be helpful is to break down the Haley voters into 2 groups: "real" republicans who don't like Trump and "Democrats for Haley".

    There is a pretty clear correlation between votes for Haley in this primary and votes for Biden in 2020 (i.e.Haley's only 2 wins are in the Democratic fortresses of Vermont and D.C.while she is getting spanked in places like Alabama)

    If the "Democrats for Haley" aren't going to vote for Trump that isn't an issue as they wouldn't have voted even have voted for Haley, if she had somehow won. If the real republicans vote Biden that is more of a problem.

    The other side of the coin is that recent polling of the swing states shows Trump ahead across the board
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390
    edited March 6

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    Night buses go out pretty far. Might be an issue for people in the home counties I suppose. I think the issue is that British people are programmed culturally to drink quite fast, so if you're only interested in drinking you'll probably be done by 11. Unlike in Mediterranean countries where people eat late and sip their drinks like big girls blouses - have you ever tried going to the pub with an Italian?
    Nightclubs have been impacted by dating apps I think, people went there to score and apps are far more efficient for this purpose. The same dynamic has probably hurt gay venues even more (plus they can go to other places now and not get their head kicked in). Add in high property costs, stagnant wages and a lack of staff post Brexit and it's easy to see why the sector is suffering.
    But I do think it varies by area, and there is just a lot more going on in thriving residential neighbourhoods than before. Where I am in SE14 local pubs are doing great business, while there are great bars and clubs in Peckham and Deptford. And a wide array of restaurants in SE4 and SE15 also seem to be doing well. I see central London as mainly for theatre and big gigs, in terms of going out. Everything else is better locally - a nicer crowd too.
    That's a point (Brits drink quickly so they're often far gone by 11 or 12) I've never considered before but it's an interesting one. My own anecdotal experience would bear this out. When I go out in a group those who are still going into the early hours are generally absolutely plastered.

    Interestingly it doesn't seem to happen in the same way with Brits on holiday, except among the thugs. I think people start later for one thing, usually have a meal as part of the evening, and then if going clubbing will often stick to water and various other chemical inputs.
    Yes if you want to stay up late and dance and have a good time alcohol is really not the intoxicant you need to be consuming. If we really wanted to have a vibrant night time economy we would legalise mdma.
    Interesting idea. Would probably hugely reduce night-time disorder problems too. There’s a rabbit in the hat for Rachel: “We will legalise and tax ecstasy to boost our world-class nighttime economy.”
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,503
    What on earth are permanent tax cuts? Especially from a party with just a 6% market chance of a majority in a years time.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    "Back to square one" within two minutes.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033
    What on earth do mps think they are trying to achieve by shouting down Hunt
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,787

    "Back to square one" within two minutes.

    I still don't understand who thinks that's a good attack line.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,404

    I think a Russobot walks among us.

    Odd, because it’s not a Saturday!

    You mean TSE who unaccountably started an American thread shortly before PMQs on Budget day? No, he's a regular.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390
    Taz said:


    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know what time the budget starts today? Cheers!

    BBC:

    'Before the Budget at 12:30 GMT comes Prime Minister's Questions at 12:00 - you can watch it all by pressing play at the top of the page'
    This may also be useful for @Anabobazina to know about, all this TV business:

    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/price-result/coin-operated-mini-tv-by-vend-o-vision/
    Grr. Another one raising this issue! Why are PBers so obsessed with CASH???!!
    Why are you so triggered by it?
    I’m not. It’s just that I was told by PBers to “stop banging on about cash”. Yet I never raise it, others do. Almost daily. It’s an extraordinarily odd way of trying to stop me talking about it.

    It’s almost as if people WANT me to talk about it.

    Sad.
    Yet when I mentioned, for example, the malign intent of Newcastle City Council to remove cash as an option for payment for parking in their car parks and the impact this would have on the elderly, the vulnerable and those without access to smartphones you were all over it like a cheap suit.

    Physician, Heal Thyself.
    Eh? I don’t know anything about Newcastle car parks. Are you confusing me with someone else?
    No.
    Then citation required. Where have I commented on Newcastle car parks?
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,987

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.

    She's shot her bolt. It's a rock or a hard place. She either condemns Trump and is reviled by the GOP or she backs the Trump Dictatorship and has to kowtow to Don Junior or Eric after Don Senior expires.
    Trump would need a massive majority in Congress and 2/3 of the states to change the constitution to run for a third term even if he got a delayed second term this time
    As we've just seen, though, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court is quite willing to disable constitutional provisions with a simple ruling.
    All they have to do is opine that term limit clause is not "self executing", and is entirely up to Congress to enforce...
    Or find (somehow) that because Trump wasn’t in office 2021-25 that the “two terms” rule restarts in 2025 and he can run again in 2028.
    Of course, given his age he might die.
    The text of the 22nd ammendment, only mentions "being elected to the office of president". If being Vice President does not count as "the office of president" then Trump can be be on the Republican ticket as VP in 2028 with the agreement that the elected President stands down.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,563
    The first 5 minutes seem to be quite Nelsonian:

    "I see no dips".
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,629
    a

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re London’s nightlife. Covid definitely had a massive effect. As did Brexit to a much lesser extent

    But london has also gone from a Muslim population of ~300,000 to ~1,400,000 in 20 years. Muslims don’t drink or go to clubs. Or if they go to clubs they don’t drink. So nightlife dies

    You can see this is in the widespread closure of pubs in tower hamlets etc

    Many may welcome this change. Especially old nimbys who hate noise. Good for them and god speed - but I don’t. If I want a quiet sober Muslim city I’ll go to Fez. London is meant to be a buzzing world city or it is nothing

    Its yet another tragic consequence of an insanely cavalier immigration policy; imagining that importing ten million people with a very different culture will have no effect

    I know you like to blame the Muslims/immigrants for everything but the reality for the pubs and clubs is the biggest driver in lack of footfall was

    1) The smoking ban

    2) Supermarkets and loss leading offers on booze
    London is one of the most homophobic cities in the UK, one of the most anti-Semitic, and now one of the most boring at night. Incredibly
    It really isn't. There's loads going on every night. In the last few months I have gone to the theatre multiple times, spent many great evenings in the pub, gone to several gigs, gone clubbing. I think there's more going on in zone 2 and less in zone 1 than a decade ago, people are spending more time in their neighbourhood. Central London feels like it's more for tourists and other basics.
    Try getting a drink after midnight almost anywhere in london, compared to other great world cities like NYC, Paris or Tokyo. Or even lesser cities like Barcelona or Phnom Penh or Berlin or LA or Sydney or Bangkok
    I've never struggled. I was clubbing until 5am in Peckham a few months back. Drinks were available.
    I've always been in the "start early, end early, catch the bus or train home" camp.

    Trying to carry on drinking when I just want to sleep isn't something I find enjoyable.

    I occasionally went to nightclubs as a student, but never really found it an enjoyable night out.
    The night started with pizza and beers at 7 but I was only drinking water after about midnight and so had no hangover the next day, although I did have a nap later in the morning after I'd taken my daughter to an orchestra day in Croydon first thing.
    I've heard it suggested that the post midnight non-nightclub scene faded because of the number of people who need to get home before midnight - night tube and buses are for centralish London.
    That doesn't really make any sense. Twenty years ago there was no night tube at all, and black cabs were more expensive even in nominal terms than Uber are now (unlicensed cabs with no insurance probably still more expensive than Uber too but could mean half hour wait hoping someone would stop).

    Late transport back home is cheaper and more available. Whats changed is youngsters have loads less disposable income than we did and have a greater priority on health and fitness, and less on drinking, especially binge drinking.
    The nightclub scene is doing better (but not great) - but that is a destination thing.

    What I am talking about is the bars that used to be open to 3am. Which depended on a more casual trade.
    But people in 2000 had fewer options (and more expensive and less safe) to get back home than people in 2024, so it is definitely not transport causing that.
    I think people made an initial "effort" to get into central London for the late bar thing. I've always lived in tube/busable range and I've watched as things changed. I think that a younger demographic has got pushed out of London - lots of young professionals are being pushed into commuter belt, long before kids and the need for a house. Previously, they would have been living in all kinds of grotty places that were central. The people who want a place they can talk in vs a pounding club.

    The nightclubs have the students and people who will make all sorts of plans to get to The Club to see a particular DJ - I smile when I hear hear the grads in the bank planning on x of them all camping at in the 1 bed flat of the one who has a place In Town, after the club.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,252

    What on earth do mps think they are trying to achieve by shouting down Hunt

    They're nervous.

    Unfoundedly so, IMHO.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,252

    "Back to square one" within two minutes.

    It's very slim pickings with a lot of rhetoric so far. A very short extension of pub relief.

    Note the date. February 2025. Just past the latest possible date of the next election.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    TimS said:

    "Back to square one" within two minutes.

    I still don't understand who thinks that's a good attack line.
    Some thirteen year old working as a Spad in No 10 presumably.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    No plan attack line.

    Yet it seems he will steal Labour's plan at some point in next hour.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,300

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Wise up Dura. He claims he intends to be a Dictator. He can tear up the Constitution. Dictators dictate.

    The Constitution is so 1789.
    No he would need army support to do that
    He's Commander in Chief. A refusal is mutiny, is treason. Go to Leavenworth and do not pass Go.
    Of course it's not treason. Disobeying an order is an Article 92 UCMJ violation not treason.

    And disobeying an illegal order is not a violation anyway.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,116
    edited March 6

    What on earth are permanent tax cuts? Especially from a party with just a 6% market chance of a majority in a years time.

    Hunt quite clearly believes Labour will be in government before the so called permanent tax cuts have to be reversed because public finances are totally shot. We're talking months.

    Labour can then be blamed. This is an elephant trap elephants have no difficulty seeing.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,563

    "Back to square one" within two minutes.

    It's very slim pickings with a lot of rhetoric so far. A very short extension of pub relief.

    Note the date. February 2025. Just past the latest possible date of the next election.
    Yes I noticed that. Looks like an obvious tell. Why else not take it to the end of the tax year?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,563
    edited March 6
    "We reduced the deficit by 80% between 2010 and 2019".

    (If I have it right.)

    Spot the carefully chosen end dates.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,434
    Get on with it! 😈
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,390

    What on earth do mps think they are trying to achieve by shouting down Hunt

    They're nervous.

    Unfoundedly so, IMHO.
    Yes. Hunt really doesn’t convince as the baiter-in-chief political chancellor. He should have stayed on-brand as the sound money accountant type. He has neither the voice nor the testosterone for the combative thing.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,481
    The distinction between GDP and GDP per capita gets a mention for once.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,191
    Can someone point out the Tory cuts?

    https://x.com/rcolvile/status/1765312942973632750

    image
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,787

    What on earth do mps think they are trying to achieve by shouting down Hunt

    They're nervous.

    Unfoundedly so, IMHO.
    Yes. Hunt really doesn’t convince as the baiter-in-chief political chancellor. He should have stayed on-brand as the sound money accountant type. He has neither the voice nor the testosterone for the combative thing.
    Same problem as Rishi.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    Public sector borrowing to 1.2% by 2028?

    Absolutely hilarious. Complete bollocks.

  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033

    Public sector borrowing to 1.2% by 2028?

    Absolutely hilarious. Complete bollocks.

    I assume it is consistent with the OBR
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101
    edited March 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    A genuine shame.

    She might not be my kind of conservative but compared to the alternative, she deserved to do better.

    We can just hope the orange **** implodes.
    It was an insipid campaign because her central message was anti-Trump but she never really had the nerve to commit to slagging him off.

    The best she can hope for now is that DJT drops dead in the next few months. That's her only shot because the 2028 GOP candidate will be DJT's Veep.
    Or DJT. The Constitution can be amended and Amendments can be repealed.
    It's a high bar though. Two thirds super majorities in both houses or 38/50 state legislatures.
    Wise up Dura. He claims he intends to be a Dictator. He can tear up the Constitution. Dictators dictate.

    The Constitution is so 1789.
    No he would need army support to do that
    He's Commander in Chief. A refusal is mutiny, is treason. Go to Leavenworth and do not pass Go.
    Of course it's not treason. Disobeying an order is an Article 92 UCMJ violation not treason.

    And disobeying an illegal order is not a violation anyway.
    Try explaining that to the firing squad at Leavenworth.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    VAT threshold to £90K.

    Another utterly pointless gesture.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,252
    A slightly humorous moment between SKS and Hunt there.
This discussion has been closed.