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Careless Rishi – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited February 12 in General
Careless Rishi – politicalbetting.com

Even more ouch. pic.twitter.com/eRxz68v4pr

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Comments

  • Yes, I am aware of the irony of me criticising somebody else for being a wealthy, arrogant out of of touch elitist.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,316
    Off topic, but timely: Happy Abraham Lincoln's Birthday to all of you!

    (It is still a holiday in many American states, by the way.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_Birthday )
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 6,751
    I don't think this polling tells us anything whatsoever. You can ask people "does Rishi care", but a polling question "does he care more or less than other Conservatives" is not going to get a sensible answer. It's too complicated a question. You'll just get some weird proxy for whether people like Sunak.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    edited February 12
    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 435
    FPT
    rcs1000 said:

    Last post from me on Ukraine.

    If the conflict ends up frozen, it will end up informally frozen. As in, the Ukrainians and Russians will be so dug in, and will so lack reinforcements, that forward movement will be impossible. (You might argue that point has been reached already.)

    Both sides would effectively abandon offensive operations, but would continue to man the trenches on the front line. Which would, in turn, be increasingly well defended.

    But that's not something that involves "advice", that's one potential natural consequence of a war where attacking is incredibly expensive.

    And it's not cost free for either country, albeit casualties would be dramatically reduced.

    That's not a situation, mind, where we tell the Ukrainians not to fight. That's not a situation, either, where we stop sending arms and ammunition to Ukraine.

    Is this not perhaps one of the worst-case scenarios for the west?

    An aggrieved Russia, given breathing room to re-arm, to build up their defence industrial base, and to forge new allies. A pissed-off Russia, watching huge quantities of materiel continuing to flood into Ukraine from Europe (and maybe America). A Russia that's brooding over something like looks uncomfortably like failure, and is desperate to grab some sort of success from wherever it can.

    Might that not put it on a hair-trigger, ready to lash out given the slightest excuse? And that excuse could anything - shipping being held up in the Turkish Straits, a submarine accident in the GIUK gap, even something like a fishing dispute.

    It would leave the world feeling like a much more dangerous place.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,758

    Off topic, but timely: Happy Abraham Lincoln's Birthday to all of you!

    (It is still a holiday in many American states, by the way.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_Birthday )

    Presumably not Mississippi or Louisiana.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,758
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    FPT Cullen Skink.
  • TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Leek and potato soup?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    I’m wondering about reappropriating Le Welsh for the land of my fathers (well, my Welsh friends’ fathers). Like the shepherds pie example on previous thread, which I think they call hachis Parmentier. Child friendly, which helps.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    edited February 12

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    FPT Cullen Skink.
    Not a bad call. Also child friendly and available ingredients (will check carrefour mkt for smoked haddock).
  • TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Beans on Naan?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    A classic British savoury (which we discussed recently)

    How about this:


    Scotch woodcock is a British savoury dish consisting of creamy, lightly-scrambled eggs served on toast that has been spread with anchovy paste or Gentleman's Relish, and sometimes topped with chopped herbs and black pepper.[1][2]
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    edited February 12
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    A classic British savoury (which we discussed recently)

    How about this:


    Scotch woodcock is a British savoury dish consisting of creamy, lightly-scrambled eggs served on toast that has been spread with anchovy paste or Gentleman's Relish, and sometimes topped with chopped herbs and black pepper.[1][2]
    Delicious, if I can find le relish des gentilhommes. But tinned anchovies would do it.

    I’m now thinking a trio or more of bite sized Anglo aperitifs. Scottish woodcock, Cullen skink and Welsh rarebit. Maybe a touch of prawn cocktail too. With some naan.

    Very rapidly effective crowdsource all, thanks.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,570
    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 57,807
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    A classic British savoury (which we discussed recently)

    How about this:


    Scotch woodcock is a British savoury dish consisting of creamy, lightly-scrambled eggs served on toast that has been spread with anchovy paste or Gentleman's Relish, and sometimes topped with chopped herbs and black pepper.[1][2]
    What about a steaming bowl of Mulligatawny soup?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    edited February 12
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    A classic British savoury (which we discussed recently)

    How about this:


    Scotch woodcock is a British savoury dish consisting of creamy, lightly-scrambled eggs served on toast that has been spread with anchovy paste or Gentleman's Relish, and sometimes topped with chopped herbs and black pepper.[1][2]
    Delicious, if I can find le relish des gentilhommes. But tinned anchovies would do it.

    I’m now thinking a trio or more of bite sized Anglo aperitifs. Scottish woodcock, Cullen skink and Welsh rarebit. Maybe a touch of prawn cocktail too. With some naan.

    Very rapidly effective crowdsource all, thanks.
    When we discussed this there was another one - another classic Brit savoury with pear and an English blue cheese - called the Wolsey or something. It sounded delish
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,316
    A little bit of recent history: It was common in the northern US for Republican parties to hold fund raising parties on Lincoln's brithday. And for Democratic parties to hold Jefferson/Jackson day parties.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    You could also serve great British native oysters - it’s February - Helfords? - with tiny artisanal English sausages and Borough sourdough
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    A tiny dollop of kedgeree might be a fun canapé. To get the imperial theme going
  • TimSTimS Posts: 8,669
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    A classic British savoury (which we discussed recently)

    How about this:


    Scotch woodcock is a British savoury dish consisting of creamy, lightly-scrambled eggs served on toast that has been spread with anchovy paste or Gentleman's Relish, and sometimes topped with chopped herbs and black pepper.[1][2]
    Delicious, if I can find le relish des gentilhommes. But tinned anchovies would do it.

    I’m now thinking a trio or more of bite sized Anglo aperitifs. Scottish woodcock, Cullen skink and Welsh rarebit. Maybe a touch of prawn cocktail too. With some naan.

    Very rapidly effective crowdsource all, thanks.
    When we discussed this there was another one - another classic Brit savoury with pear and an English blue cheese - called the Wolsey or something. It sounded delish
    Im now moving into banquet mode. I should hire out the salle d’activités down at the mairie and invite the village over.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310
    Voters were never going to vote for multi millionaire Rishi because he had great experience of how they lived or for the NHS.

    However he is seen as caring more about the economy and stopping the boats than his party and those are issues swing voters and RefUK voters can be squeezed on
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,072

    Off topic, but timely: Happy Abraham Lincoln's Birthday to all of you!

    (It is still a holiday in many American states, by the way.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_Birthday )

    Point of order: Abraham Lincoln was not born; he was an invader from space:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wb-IRgqXMI

    "Abraham Lincoln was an invader from space
    Abraham Lincoln did not belong to our race
    Fire from the sky fell upon the obstinate South
    Fire from the sky issued forth from Lincoln's own mouth

    Theodore Roosevelt could not die if he tried
    Theodore Roosevelt kissed his immortal bride
    Hunting the humans to live the vigorous life
    Hunting the humans to please his undying wife

    President Wilson emerged from one of the pods
    President Wilson brought with him alien gods
    Children were sacrificed to the idols of wood
    Children were sacrificed it was for our own good

    Warren G. Harding could travel backwards in time
    Warren G. Harding commanded clocks when to chime
    Watching the slow counter-clockwise turn of the hands
    Watching the slow upward trickling hourglass' sands

    Richard M. Nixon: a robot wearing a mask
    Richard M. Nixon drank engine oil from a flask
    Odd how his eyes were attached with thin copper wire
    Odd how his eyes sometimes glowed with St. Elmo's fire"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 46,805
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,310
    edited February 12

    Yes, I am aware of the irony of me criticising somebody else for being a wealthy, arrogant out of of touch elitist.

    On the positive side the Tory vote this year is likely to be the poshest it has been since your man Dave was leader in 2015, so even if a landslide defeat voting Tory is again something for the aspirational, if not the majority, to aspire to.

    The working class redwall voters Boris won will mainly be back voting Labour, have gone Reform or stay home
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,316
    To return, however briefly, to the topic: Both Bushes, father and son, were helped in politics by their early experiences, the father in the Navy in World War II, and starting at the bottom in oil industry, the son by his time in Midland, his first full-time job, and his experience as managing partner of a major league baseball team.

    The son would often sit in the cheap seats at games, and ask the fans there what he could do to improve their experiences at the games.

    I get the impression that Rishi, unfortunately for him, did not have similar contacts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654
    edited February 12
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    Definitely soup for a starter.

    Tomato soup, if there are frozen toms from the garden.

    Or cullen skink if one can get undyed smoked haddock locally (no need to go OTT as you don't need finnan haddock for that, just decent mildly smoked haddock.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,570
    edited February 12
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,934
    The Exponential Moving Average of all the polls shows Labour fairly static at 45%. Tories slowly declining at 25%. Lib Dem static at 10% and Reform UK just overtaking the Lib Dems.



    Reform UK are going to cause the Tories a lot of damage without gaining a single seat.




  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    Barnesian said:

    The Exponential Moving Average of all the polls shows Labour fairly static at 45%. Tories slowly declining at 25%. Lib Dem static at 10% and Reform UK just overtaking the Lib Dems.



    Reform UK are going to cause the Tories a lot of damage without gaining a single seat.




    Incredible collapse for the Nats there. FPTP working against them
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,244
    Leon said:

    Barnesian said:

    The Exponential Moving Average of all the polls shows Labour fairly static at 45%. Tories slowly declining at 25%. Lib Dem static at 10% and Reform UK just overtaking the Lib Dems.



    Reform UK are going to cause the Tories a lot of damage without gaining a single seat.




    Incredible collapse for the Nats there. FPTP working against them
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    If the parents of the dead teenager are taking offence, whether that is logically justified in the eyes of others is secondary. It should have been obviously plausible that it would cause offence and therefore terrible politics.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,902
    edited February 12
    AlsoLei said:

    On topic, Rishi's tax return has gone down really badly with a chunk of voters who might normally be expected to lean Tory.

    I've heard it spontaneously raised by all of my better-off friends, and also by multiple colleagues at work today. They're all fixated by his 23% effective tax rate.

    Many of them will earn enough to have needed to do a tax return themselves a couple of week ago. If you're a 30-something on £100k with a Plan 2 student loan, you'll have paid an effective 46.8% tax rate in 2022/23. Twice Rishi's rate.

    These are people who, in years gone past, would either have been Tory already or would have shuffled across into the Tory column in the next decade.

    No chance of that now.

    It's not something that someone on median wage or less might necessarily care about that much - but the higher earners that the Tories are relying on to vote for them in the future are livid.

    The thing about capital gains is it isn't guaranteed income. It's a return on an investment where you can lose. Taxing investment at the same rate as income is a) a disincentive to invest (not what the economy needs) or b) easily avoidable, e.g. how landlords do it, by using their gains in one property as security for a loan to buy more properties, thus never disposing of the asset. People who want returns on investment taxed at the same rate as income are a) economically illiterate and b) don't understand how easy a tax it is to avoid.
  • isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Can a joke really be that funny if you have to explain it?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,383
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Starmer the serial u-turner . Fair enough that’s a valid point for people to make . Sunak could have listed the u-turns and omitted the trans jibe . No he chose to include it even though Brianna’s mother was in the Commons and even though the debate around transgender has become very toxic and nasty. Even worse one of the killers motives was in part due to a hatred of trans ,

    Sunaks refusal to apologize has been duly noted by the public . As for Kemi Badenochs attempts to infer that Starmer was in the wrong , epic fail !
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,758
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,570

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Can a joke really be that funny if you have to explain it?
    Who said it was funny?

    But what’s happened is people have deliberately ignored the actual words in the joke, and taken offence at the mention of trans, because there’s nothing in what Sunak said that could be interpreted as derogatory towards anyone but Sir Keir
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,244
    Leon said:

    Barnesian said:

    The Exponential Moving Average of all the polls shows Labour fairly static at 45%. Tories slowly declining at 25%. Lib Dem static at 10% and Reform UK just overtaking the Lib Dems.



    Reform UK are going to cause the Tories a lot of damage without gaining a single seat.




    Incredible collapse for the Nats there. FPTP working against them
    Only the Scots and both English ones, the Welsh seem fine off this poll.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Can a joke really be that funny if you have to explain it?
    Who said it was funny?

    But what’s happened is people have deliberately ignored the actual words in the joke, and taken offence at the mention of trans, because there’s nothing in what Sunak said that could be interpreted as derogatory towards anyone but Sir Keir
    OK, so he's off the charge of being offensive, but guilty of the lesser charge of being a crap stand-up comic.

    Fairy nuff.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,711
    kyf_100 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    On topic, Rishi's tax return has gone down really badly with a chunk of voters who might normally be expected to lean Tory.

    I've heard it spontaneously raised by all of my better-off friends, and also by multiple colleagues at work today. They're all fixated by his 23% effective tax rate.

    Many of them will earn enough to have needed to do a tax return themselves a couple of week ago. If you're a 30-something on £100k with a Plan 2 student loan, you'll have paid an effective 46.8% tax rate in 2022/23. Twice Rishi's rate.

    These are people who, in years gone past, would either have been Tory already or would have shuffled across into the Tory column in the next decade.

    No chance of that now.

    It's not something that someone on median wage or less might necessarily care about that much - but the higher earners that the Tories are relying on to vote for them in the future are livid.

    The thing about capital gains is it isn't guaranteed income. It's a return on an investment where you can lose. Taxing investment at the same rate as income is a) a disincentive to invest (not what the economy needs) or b) easily avoidable, e.g. how landlords do it, by using their gains in one property as security for a loan to buy more properties, thus never disposing of the asset. People who want returns on investment taxed at the same rate as income are a) economically illiterate and b) don't understand how easy a tax it is to avoid.
    But it is very easy for those who earn income on capital to get paid it as a capital gain, thus paying far less tax than us poor PAYE mugs who actually work for a living. It is economically illiterate to tax one factor of production (labour) so much higher than the other (capital). It is also politically naive, because it pisses a lot of people off.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,570
    edited February 12
    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 435
    kyf_100 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    On topic, Rishi's tax return has gone down really badly with a chunk of voters who might normally be expected to lean Tory.

    I've heard it spontaneously raised by all of my better-off friends, and also by multiple colleagues at work today. They're all fixated by his 23% effective tax rate.

    Many of them will earn enough to have needed to do a tax return themselves a couple of week ago. If you're a 30-something on £100k with a Plan 2 student loan, you'll have paid an effective 46.8% tax rate in 2022/23. Twice Rishi's rate.

    These are people who, in years gone past, would either have been Tory already or would have shuffled across into the Tory column in the next decade.

    No chance of that now.

    It's not something that someone on median wage or less might necessarily care about that much - but the higher earners that the Tories are relying on to vote for them in the future are livid.

    The thing about capital gains is it isn't guaranteed income. It's a return on an investment where you can lose. Taxing investment at the same rate as income is a) a disincentive to invest (not what the economy needs) or b) easily avoidable, e.g. how landlords do it, by using their gains in one property as security for a loan to buy more properties, thus never disposing of the asset. People who want returns on investment taxed at the same rate as income are a) economically illiterate and b) don't understand how easy a tax it is to avoid.
    Oh, yeah - there's absolutely no nuance. None of them care about the earned vs unearned thing, or UK vs US.

    All they see is that his effective tax rate is half what theirs is, despite his income being vastly higher. They see it as being manifestly unfair - and they're right to do so.

    I think it was a huge error for him to have released the details when he did. For people who've just had to submit their own tax return, the figures will be fresh in their minds. He could have sat on it for six months, and no-one would have cared that much. He's tried to make a virtue of transparency, but I suspect that it'll end up hurting him badly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,196
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Starmer said that? Rishi should demand his immediate resignation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,383
    edited February 12
    isam said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Can a joke really be that funny if you have to explain it?
    Who said it was funny?

    But what’s happened is people have deliberately ignored the actual words in the joke, and taken offence at the mention of trans, because there’s nothing in what Sunak said that could be interpreted as derogatory towards anyone but Sir Keir
    You’re missing the point .Was it necessary to risk that when the mother of Brianna was in the Commons. Why include it in the first place. There were loads of other examples Sunak had .

    Sunak could have just said sorry , that would have ended the matter . He just looks nasty and totally lacking in empathy for the mother .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 2,940
    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Should be possible to find some Scottish or Norwegian smoked salmon. Bit of lemon and brown bread with butter.

    Not exactly exclusively British, but typically so.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 54,695
    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So, taking a bite out of the middle of a cornish pasty is wrong.

    What are you supposed to do? Slap it into your ear and then reach round to catch the crumbs with your tongue?
  • isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So, taking a bite out of the middle of a cornish pasty is wrong.

    What are you supposed to do? Slap it into your ear and then reach round to catch the crumbs with your tongue?
    Civilised people use a knife and fork.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 2,940
    edited February 12
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    Also cold, since they are hardly likely to be warm by the middle of the shift. And because they taste better that way. I seem to be in a minority on this though.
  • Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    If you haven't read this you should do:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/12/renting-london-short-term-pet-sitting

    The female Leon, even has a love of the Caucasus.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    You can't expect the Mirror's political editor to be au fait with the correct way to eat that kind of food.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    NO mention of Gloucester Old Spot pork with apple? Or proper Borsder blackface hoggett or mutton casserole, morse flavour than lamb? North Ronaldsay seaweed fed sheep if you are really trying.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    You can't expect the Mirror's political editor to be au fait with the correct way to eat that kind of food.
    He claims to be Cornish. Not a very Cornish name: Stevens. So he can fuck right off
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    Also cold, since they are hardly likely to be warm by the middle of the shift. And because they taste better that way. I seem to be in a minority on this though.
    Agreed. Me too.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 435
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    Screw the Black Bomber, go for the Rock Star or Truffle Trove.

    Or Lynher Kern - better than Comté?
  • Drunkest person I have ever seen was at Twickenham in 2002, against the Saffers, we won 53-3.

    He went to the urinals, unzipped his fly, and took out his shirt corner, not his John Thomas, and proceeded to piss himself oblivious to the fact he was pissing in his trousers.

    Frustrated spectators are demanding ticket refunds from England’s win over Wales after arriving at their seats to discover they would be part of an alcohol-free trial at Twickenham.

    Telegraph Sport has learned of chaotic scenes said to have “ruined” the experience, with fans having to choose between throwing away beverages and consuming them quickly in order to watch the game.

    One source has described a man “downing” four pints consecutively from a cardboard holder after being informed by a steward that the drinks could not be brought within view of the pitch in his area of the stadium. Guinness is sold for £7.50 a pint at matches.

    It is thought that many were blindsided by the revelation that they would be sitting in a designated, alcohol-free zone. A source, who spent £117 on a ticket and a further £14.70 for two drinks prior to kick-off, before a steward explained the regulations in place, has claimed that they were at no stage told of the trial.

    The only visible signage was at the steps towards the seats and then at the seats themselves. Spectators had already bought drinks upon seeing those signs. No details of the trial, which imposed regulations on 627 seats, were outlined on the ticketing app, leading spectators to feel misled and frustrated


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/02/12/england-fans-demand-refund-surprise-alcohol-free-trial/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,196
    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    We need an adjudication from Leon.

    I can't see anything wrong with Rishi's technique. It looks to me that he is eating his pastie like a great statesman would eat a pastie. Can you imagine Starmer trying to eat a pastie? It would be sub- Milliband bacon sandwich stuff
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    Also cold, since they are hardly likely to be warm by the middle of the shift. And because they taste better that way. I seem to be in a minority on this though.
    Absolutely right. And my very Cornish family would agree. A cold Cornish pasty is much nicer than warm. Gives the flavours time to meld. Lots of white pepper!

    My mum used to make amazing pasties, bless her. Little cold ones are a great snack for parties
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,186
    edited February 12
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    My French copains will kill for Black Bomber.

    Edit: Made in Wales, I believe?
  • TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Waldorf salad.
  • isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    Can a joke really be that funny if you have to explain it?
    Besides, the aphorism isn't "if you're explaining, you're winning."

    Tom Peck, Times sketch writer (but not joking) made a couple of other observations.

    I’ve never had such a detailed look at the inside of Rishi Sunak’s ring binder. Never before seen the barbs, the jibes, the insults all there, written out in long form, ready to go. I never knew he had a page for each question, and each questioner, marked up with a little colour photograph. In the case of the planted ones from supportive backbenchers, he even had the question itself typed out in his notes. A reminder that this is meant to be an exercise in public scrutiny...

    Of course, whether Brianna Ghey’s mother was or wasn’t in the room where it happened doesn’t matter in the slightest. It would be hard to contrive a more perfect demonstration for precisely why a prime minister’s words matter so much. Everyone is in the room where they are uttered. They are always heard. Which is why even passable leaders tend to know better than to lower themselves to this kind of thing.


    It was planned and it doesn't matter if Mrs Ghey was in the room at the time. Of course it blooming doesn't.

    Someone, either Rishi or a minion, wrote the barb, insulting trans people to get at Starmer. Along with a load of others. In a nice quiet office. I'm reminded of what CS Lewis said about Hell in the 20th Century.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 46,805

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    My French copains will kill for Black Bomber.

    Edit: Made in Wales, I believe?
    Gallybagger mature.

    Isle of Wight blue (award-winning btw)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,616
    Evening all :)

    Another curious Monday evening of polls. R&W plunge the Conservatives to 21% but Deltapoll have them at 27% - a prompting difference for smaller parties perhaps?

    LDs three lower with Deltapoll, Reform two lower with Deltapoll, Greens one lower, Conservatives six higher. Make of that what you will.

    The Conservatives two points lower even on the R&W "mega poll" of 5000 last midweek.

    A 12-point Conservative lead in December 2019 is now an 18-25 point Labour lead so a swing of 15-18.5%.

    Some tell you most of the Reform vote will go back to the Conservatives at the election - not a scintilla of evidence for that by the way. The polls of Reform voters suggest a third at most would vote Conservative with half not voting at all.

    The last time a poll showed a Labour lead in single figures was a Redfield & Wilton poll in August 2022 - the numbers then were Labour 42%, Conservatives 33%, LDs 13%, with Reform on 4% so we can see the direction of travel but that doesn't equate to a return journey.

    The recent polls show the CON/Ref vs Lab/LD/Green numbers as:

    Deltapoll: 37-57
    R&W: 33-62
    Opinium: 35-61
    We Think: 36-59
    Techne: 34-60
    YouGov: 33-62
    Survation: 34-58
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,758
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    Will @TimS be able to buy them at his local Carrefour, though?
  • TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Waldorf salad.
    Oxtail soup but call it Brown Windsor.

    And then have a discussion about whether it has ever existed:

    Considered an appetiser of choice for British royalty for centuries, Brown Windsor Soup has long held a peculiar role in the national psyche. And it likely never existed at all.

    https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20230425-the-muddy-history-of-brown-windsor-soup
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    When will Starmer have his pastygate? It must be an unwritten law of British politics that they have to have one.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 17,802
    @TimS
    • Go to shop
    • Get tin(s) of Heinz Tomato Soup
    • Heat soup
    • Tell French folk that everybody in the UK has had this at least once and it cheered them up. You won't be lying.
    • Don't forget to provide bread and salt. If you are feeling posh, cut off the edges of the bread.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    Will @TimS be able to buy them at his local Carrefour, though?
    Or import them even if he happens to visit London just beforehand?

    Interesting question.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,616
    edited February 12

    When will Starmer have his pastygate? It must be an unwritten law of British politics that they have to have one.

    Blair had his after he'd won the landslide.

    Perhaps the same will happen to Starmer.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,382
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
  • Taz said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Waldorf salad.
    Sorry, we’re all out of Waldorfs.
    Well done, Taz. The old ones are still the best.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 17,802
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Waldorf salad.
    Sorry, we’re all out of Waldorfs.
    (grits teeth) You got there before me... :(
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,420
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    Waldorf salad.
    Sorry, we’re all out of Waldorfs.
    Don't mention the culture war.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,130
    edited February 12
    How does PB feel about calling out celebs for taking a private jet from one side of a city to another?

    https://news.sky.com/story/taylor-swifts-lawyers-threaten-legal-action-against-student-who-tracks-her-private-jet-13065812

    Opinion polling on it is quite interesting:

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/survey-results/daily/2024/02/12/4b134/2

    I suspect the results would be different if the question named Taylor Swift or Elon Musk.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 54,695
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    You can't expect the Mirror's political editor to be au fait with the correct way to eat that kind of food.
    He claims to be Cornish. Not a very Cornish name: Stevens. So he can fuck right off
    He's desperate to capture an Ed Miliband bacon sandwich moment, and put it on his CV he got there first, so he's just rolling the dice.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,703
    a) Cropwell Bishop not Colston Bassett; and

    b) Wild smoked salmon (which inevitably comes from the Atlantic these days) not Scottish. Because 99% of Scottish smoked salmon is farmed; and

    c) what has Rishi done now.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,915

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    You can't expect the Mirror's political editor to be au fait with the correct way to eat that kind of food.
    He claims to be Cornish. Not a very Cornish name: Stevens. So he can fuck right off
    He's desperate to capture an Ed Miliband bacon sandwich moment, and put it on his CV he got there first, so he's just rolling the dice.
    Yes, and now he’s getting ratio’d by Cornish people. Stupid twit
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    FPT

    Gastronomic question for British (English, Scottish, Welsh or indeed N Irish) patriots.

    Our French neighbour and her little girl are coming for dinner tomorrow and I’ve promised some classic British cooking. Main course and pudding are easy: I’m going toad in the hole (with a nod to it being shrove Tuesday) and some sort of nursery pudding. But what about a starter? I’m stuck.

    All I can think of is seafood options but I’m not a fan of prawn cocktail, sceptical I’ll find any brown shrimps to “pot”, certainly won’t track down kippers or cockles. Or there are other non fishy things that won’t be found down the local Carrefour market like haggis or game pie. And Welsh rarebit has been blatantly culturally appropriated by the French as “le Welsh” and presented as a speciality of the Ch’tis.

    Please advise. And don’t say melon and ham.

    You’ve gone astray already by not serving up Chicken Tikka Masala.

    But you could try a classic soup - leek and potato, or pea and ham - or black pudding fritters, or classic sausage rolls, or mini filled Yorkshire puddings (not before toad, perhaps), or bacon-wrapped dates (a very old British starter, look it up), or bacon-wrapped oysters, or Welsh rarebit. Or that great British classic of onion bhaji, of course.
    As you won’t be able to beat the French with the cheese course, why not serve devils on horseback instead?
    Not beat the French with the cheese???

    Offer:

    Good ripe Colston Bassett blue Stilton

    Black Bomber cheddar

    Dorstone goat cheese

    As good as anything French. Probably better
    My French copains will kill for Black Bomber.

    Edit: Made in Wales, I believe?
    Gallybagger mature.

    Isle of Wight blue (award-winning btw)
    Sounds wonderful.

    Do you eat or inject it?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,902

    kyf_100 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    On topic, Rishi's tax return has gone down really badly with a chunk of voters who might normally be expected to lean Tory.

    I've heard it spontaneously raised by all of my better-off friends, and also by multiple colleagues at work today. They're all fixated by his 23% effective tax rate.

    Many of them will earn enough to have needed to do a tax return themselves a couple of week ago. If you're a 30-something on £100k with a Plan 2 student loan, you'll have paid an effective 46.8% tax rate in 2022/23. Twice Rishi's rate.

    These are people who, in years gone past, would either have been Tory already or would have shuffled across into the Tory column in the next decade.

    No chance of that now.

    It's not something that someone on median wage or less might necessarily care about that much - but the higher earners that the Tories are relying on to vote for them in the future are livid.

    The thing about capital gains is it isn't guaranteed income. It's a return on an investment where you can lose. Taxing investment at the same rate as income is a) a disincentive to invest (not what the economy needs) or b) easily avoidable, e.g. how landlords do it, by using their gains in one property as security for a loan to buy more properties, thus never disposing of the asset. People who want returns on investment taxed at the same rate as income are a) economically illiterate and b) don't understand how easy a tax it is to avoid.
    But it is very easy for those who earn income on capital to get paid it as a capital gain, thus paying far less tax than us poor PAYE mugs who actually work for a living. It is economically illiterate to tax one factor of production (labour) so much higher than the other (capital). It is also politically naive, because it pisses a lot of people off.
    The difference is risk.

    Ask people on PAYE how happy they'd be if the deal was this: for every year they work, there's a percentage chance they don't get paid at all, but if they do get paid, the government still wants 40% of it.

    Investment entails risk. If I put £50,000 into a business, there's an x% chance I lose all my money. Hence I'd only do it if I thought the rewards outweighed the risk. If I think I'll see a 100% return, I might invest as it would mean a £40,000 profit for me (vs a potential £50,000 loss). But if CGT doubles to 40%, would I still invest the £50k if the potential profit was only £30,000 while the potential for loss (£50k) remains the same?

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,075
    edited February 12
    tlg86 said:

    How does PB feel about calling out celebs for taking a private jet from one side of a city to another?

    https://news.sky.com/story/taylor-swifts-lawyers-threaten-legal-action-against-student-who-tracks-her-private-jet-13065812

    Opinion polling on it is quite interesting:

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/entertainment/survey-results/daily/2024/02/12/4b134/2

    Capital offence to jet except in the case of Taylor Swift where Edmund Burke's view applies: I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards, to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 24,726
    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    It is not offensive to transsexuals who've completed their transition and had gender reassignment surgery, because they don't have penises.

    This is a key dividing line. If someone cannot live as their original gender, and are given some relief by a physical transformation, that is fine and it is cruel and ill-bred to remind them of their original gender constantly. However, a 'trans woman' who owns and enjoys the use of their male genitalia does not fit into that category, and there is a panoply of physical, psychological, safeguarding, sporting, and other reasons why their assumption of the female gender should not automatically have the weight of the law behind it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 54,695
    The last genuinely cringe gastronomic picture I can remember was Zac Goldsmith trying to drink a pint.
  • Essexit said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
    Not a joke either, is it?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,382
    edited February 12
    Essexit said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
    Yes it can be. This isn't a neutral statement. It's not necessarily even a "fact" in this case
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,616
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    How do you eat a Cornish pasty? Apparently not this way anymore, not that I’ve ever eaten one

    https://x.com/johnestevens/status/1757065495235236162?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I’m Cornish. That’s exactly how you’re meant to eat them (most people get it wrong). You hold onto the crinkled pastry crust (with your dirty tin miner hands) you eat the good bit and throw the crust away

    That’s WHY they are like that. Tin miners often had arsenic on their hands so it really mattered
    You can't expect the Mirror's political editor to be au fait with the correct way to eat that kind of food.
    He claims to be Cornish. Not a very Cornish name: Stevens. So he can fuck right off
    He's desperate to capture an Ed Miliband bacon sandwich moment, and put it on his CV he got there first, so he's just rolling the dice.
    Yes, and now he’s getting ratio’d by Cornish people. Stupid twit
    It seems Falmouth is the blandest town in the UK.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13074477/most-depressing-place-live-britain-cornwall-seaside-town.html

    Maybe they should change the name to "Blands End"....

  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
    Not a joke either, is it?
    It was a joke about Keir Starmer's u-turns, which included a reference to a fact.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,768
    edited February 12
    FPT... regarding SMO histrionics.

    Surely the point is not that they are running out of people to fight, it's that Zelensky is running out of road politically to mobilise those people.

    There are still untapped pools of cannon fodder as the first seven (or maybe eight) mobilisation efforts were not evenly demographically and geographically distributed for reasons. The new mobilisation law is very unpopular with asset seizures for the insufficiently bellicose and other quite repressive measures. Combine these with ongoing suspension of elections and state control of all media and Zelensky is struggling with the always difficult second series.

    The war isn't lost but if the second reading of the mobilisation bill fails, it may have to go on hiatus for a while.

    If the West really wanted to Ukraine to win (hint: they don't) then the one single thing they could do to facilitate that would be to round up Ukrainians in their countries who are eligible for conscription according to Ukrainian law and send them back. This would refresh the headwaters of the river of blood and give Zelensky some much needed domestic political cover.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 435

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    It is not offensive to transsexuals who've completed their transition and had gender reassignment surgery, because they don't have penises.

    This is a key dividing line. If someone cannot live as their original gender, and are given some relief by a physical transformation, that is fine and it is cruel and ill-bred to remind them of their original gender constantly. However, a 'trans woman' who owns and enjoys the use of their male genitalia does not fit into that category, and there is a panoply of physical, psychological, safeguarding, sporting, and other reasons why their assumption of the female gender should not automatically have the weight of the law behind it.
    Why should a woman have part of her body cut off to satisfy you?

    It seems like such a deeply weird and creepy thing for people to say. What next? Hem length inspections? Mandatory makeup? Looking people indoors for being insufficiently elegant?
  • Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
    Not a joke either, is it?
    It was a joke about Keir Starmer's u-turns, which included a reference to a fact.
    Ah, so it was a joke then. Glad it has been explained to me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,072
    "Andrew Rosindell: Police drop rape investigation into Tory MP"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68273826
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,619

    Drunkest person I have ever seen was at Twickenham in 2002, against the Saffers, we won 53-3.

    He went to the urinals, unzipped his fly, and took out his shirt corner, not his John Thomas, and proceeded to piss himself oblivious to the fact he was pissing in his trousers.

    Frustrated spectators are demanding ticket refunds from England’s win over Wales after arriving at their seats to discover they would be part of an alcohol-free trial at Twickenham.

    Telegraph Sport has learned of chaotic scenes said to have “ruined” the experience, with fans having to choose between throwing away beverages and consuming them quickly in order to watch the game.

    One source has described a man “downing” four pints consecutively from a cardboard holder after being informed by a steward that the drinks could not be brought within view of the pitch in his area of the stadium. Guinness is sold for £7.50 a pint at matches.

    It is thought that many were blindsided by the revelation that they would be sitting in a designated, alcohol-free zone. A source, who spent £117 on a ticket and a further £14.70 for two drinks prior to kick-off, before a steward explained the regulations in place, has claimed that they were at no stage told of the trial.

    The only visible signage was at the steps towards the seats and then at the seats themselves. Spectators had already bought drinks upon seeing those signs. No details of the trial, which imposed regulations on 627 seats, were outlined on the ticketing app, leading spectators to feel misled and frustrated


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/02/12/england-fans-demand-refund-surprise-alcohol-free-trial/

    Drunkest man I ever saw was in a curry house in Ramsgate. Arrived by taxi, the driver of which brought him in and paid in advance for said chaps food. When his meal arrived he started to eat and ended up with trying to consume the tablecloth…
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 24,726
    TOPPING said:

    a) Cropwell Bishop not Colston Bassett; and

    b) Wild smoked salmon (which inevitably comes from the Atlantic these days) not Scottish. Because 99% of Scottish smoked salmon is farmed; and

    c) what has Rishi done now.

    Make that *all* smoked salmon from Scotland is farmed - there has been no salmon line fishing in the Tay this year, due to the rise in sea temperatures, caused by the changes to maritime fuels instigated to improve the environment. I doubt other rivers are much different.

    I understand why people avoid farmed salmon but I think aquaculture has improved in recent times. I prefer line caught but I'm not bothered by farmed.
  • Off topic, but timely: Happy Abraham Lincoln's Birthday to all of you!

    (It is still a holiday in many American states, by the way.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_Birthday )

    Here is a newsreel clip of Lincoln's statue being unveiled outside Parliament in London, on a very wet day judging from all the umbrellas.
    https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/151693/
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Sunak didn’t make a joke at the expense of trans people, it was at the expense of Sir Keir.

    It was a joke about Keir Starmer, at the expense of trans people.

    Imagine if the debate were about whether you can be British but black. And he stood up and said “Starmer can’t even define a real Brit”. We’d all be in no doubt he was making a joke at the expense of black people.
    Seemed to me he was mocking Sir Keir’s u-turns, and the trans one was only 99% because Starmer said that was the percentage of women that don’t have a penis wasn’t it? How is that offensive to trans?

    The same joke on black people would be had Sir Keir said 99% of black people weren’t really British having earlier said 100% were
    The women don't have penises jibe is deeply offensive to trans people. I would have thought that obvious. It's crude and aims to delegitimise who they are and how they think about themselves. I don't think Keir Starmer should have made that comment. Richi Sunak regurgitating it as an unfunny joke to score points is worse again .
    Stating facts isn't a 'jibe'.
    Not a joke either, is it?
    It was a joke about Keir Starmer's u-turns, which included a reference to a fact.
    Ah, so it was a joke then. Glad it has been explained to me.
    It was a bleeding obvious joke to anyone who watched it. If you're determined to join in with some manufactured outrage based on a partial quote, that's on you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243

    Drunkest person I have ever seen was at Twickenham in 2002, against the Saffers, we won 53-3.

    He went to the urinals, unzipped his fly, and took out his shirt corner, not his John Thomas, and proceeded to piss himself oblivious to the fact he was pissing in his trousers.

    Frustrated spectators are demanding ticket refunds from England’s win over Wales after arriving at their seats to discover they would be part of an alcohol-free trial at Twickenham.

    Telegraph Sport has learned of chaotic scenes said to have “ruined” the experience, with fans having to choose between throwing away beverages and consuming them quickly in order to watch the game.

    One source has described a man “downing” four pints consecutively from a cardboard holder after being informed by a steward that the drinks could not be brought within view of the pitch in his area of the stadium. Guinness is sold for £7.50 a pint at matches.

    It is thought that many were blindsided by the revelation that they would be sitting in a designated, alcohol-free zone. A source, who spent £117 on a ticket and a further £14.70 for two drinks prior to kick-off, before a steward explained the regulations in place, has claimed that they were at no stage told of the trial.

    The only visible signage was at the steps towards the seats and then at the seats themselves. Spectators had already bought drinks upon seeing those signs. No details of the trial, which imposed regulations on 627 seats, were outlined on the ticketing app, leading spectators to feel misled and frustrated


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/02/12/england-fans-demand-refund-surprise-alcohol-free-trial/

    Drunkest man I ever saw was in a curry house in Ramsgate. Arrived by taxi, the driver of which brought him in and paid in advance for said chaps food. When his meal arrived he started to eat and ended up with trying to consume the tablecloth…
    Did he have it with noodles or egg fried rice?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,130

    Drunkest person I have ever seen was at Twickenham in 2002, against the Saffers, we won 53-3.

    He went to the urinals, unzipped his fly, and took out his shirt corner, not his John Thomas, and proceeded to piss himself oblivious to the fact he was pissing in his trousers.

    Frustrated spectators are demanding ticket refunds from England’s win over Wales after arriving at their seats to discover they would be part of an alcohol-free trial at Twickenham.

    Telegraph Sport has learned of chaotic scenes said to have “ruined” the experience, with fans having to choose between throwing away beverages and consuming them quickly in order to watch the game.

    One source has described a man “downing” four pints consecutively from a cardboard holder after being informed by a steward that the drinks could not be brought within view of the pitch in his area of the stadium. Guinness is sold for £7.50 a pint at matches.

    It is thought that many were blindsided by the revelation that they would be sitting in a designated, alcohol-free zone. A source, who spent £117 on a ticket and a further £14.70 for two drinks prior to kick-off, before a steward explained the regulations in place, has claimed that they were at no stage told of the trial.

    The only visible signage was at the steps towards the seats and then at the seats themselves. Spectators had already bought drinks upon seeing those signs. No details of the trial, which imposed regulations on 627 seats, were outlined on the ticketing app, leading spectators to feel misled and frustrated


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/02/12/england-fans-demand-refund-surprise-alcohol-free-trial/

    What's interesting about this is that football is considering going the other way. I'm dead against reversing the ban on alcohol in the stands at football (I think it's top two divisions, not sure), it really is fine as it is.
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