This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because being a wrongun isn't the end of the world.
Starmer has the same levels of integrity as Johnson but he'll probably win the next election too.
Gorgeous could cause Starmer no end of trouble and deliver a magnificent Con GE victory.
Rishi is a lucky General.
Nah, Galloway is a fringe figure with no purchase beyond the nastier adherents of one minority religion.
What'll deliver the next Con victory - in the GE after next - will be the complete mess that Labour makes when they get their hands on power and strive to do as little as possible with it.
If you're going to have Tories in power you might as well have the real deal, not a pale pink tribute band, which is what we have coming next.
If Labour show themselves to be more competent, less childish and less needlessly destructive than this particular vintage of the Tories then I think people might happily give them another go in 2028.
As is said in the comments on that, this is too little, too late.
Disowning your candidate after shadow teams members have been defending him all day is just bad party management
It was clear he had done more than enough to be disowned as soon as it happened.
No idea how this plays out, but it is just another example of how easy some people find it to try to find ways to overlook anti-Semitic behaviour
BBC have just done it with an Apprentice candidate
And the incident at the Soho Theatre at the weekend
Just two very recent examples
They’re saying they’ve discovered more unsavoury comments from him. Must have done else they’d not have sent Lisa Nandy out with him yesterday
Has this ever happened before? A major party, fav to win the seat, effectively sacking their candidate
Galloway is 4/6f now
Mr Canavan at Falkirk almost qualifies depending on how fusst you are. But he was a MP and the argument was about his candidacy to be a MSP albeit in much the same constituency, given that Blair HQ dumped him (can't recall why, probably not being Unionist blue under the socialist pink). He ended up winning the seat anyway, as an independent.
Gorgeous could cause Starmer no end of trouble and deliver a magnificent Con GE victory.
Rishi is a lucky General.
Nah, Galloway is a fringe figure with no purchase beyond the nastier adherents of one minority religion.
What'll deliver the next Con victory - in the GE after next - will be the complete mess that Labour makes when they get their hands on power and strive to do as little as possible with it.
If you're going to have Tories in power you might as well have the real deal, not a pale pink tribute band, which is what we have coming next.
If Labour show themselves to be more competent, less childish and less needlessly destructive than this particular vintage of the Tories then I think people might happily give them another go in 2028.
I think they’ll be in power for a decade. The Tories are going to eat themselves alive.
Tucker Carlson: "It was a shock to me that Moscow, where I had never been before, the largest European city with 13 million people, was much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea about that. It is much cleaner, safer, and prettier aesthetically. Its architecture, food, services are better than any city in the United States."
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
I’ve not tried that. Will do so. I do always use the salt as that makes the surface glossy.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
Is this GB news thing a good idea? Some anti vaxxer now ranting away
If you miss him on GeeBeebies, you can always catch up with him here on Saturday morning. It will of course be a once- only gig, so don't miss it and get here early, just in case.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
Drunkest person I have ever seen was at Twickenham in 2002, against the Saffers, we won 53-3.
He went to the urinals, unzipped his fly, and took out his shirt corner, not his John Thomas, and proceeded to piss himself oblivious to the fact he was pissing in his trousers.
Frustrated spectators are demanding ticket refunds from England’s win over Wales after arriving at their seats to discover they would be part of an alcohol-free trial at Twickenham.
Telegraph Sport has learned of chaotic scenes said to have “ruined” the experience, with fans having to choose between throwing away beverages and consuming them quickly in order to watch the game.
One source has described a man “downing” four pints consecutively from a cardboard holder after being informed by a steward that the drinks could not be brought within view of the pitch in his area of the stadium. Guinness is sold for £7.50 a pint at matches.
It is thought that many were blindsided by the revelation that they would be sitting in a designated, alcohol-free zone. A source, who spent £117 on a ticket and a further £14.70 for two drinks prior to kick-off, before a steward explained the regulations in place, has claimed that they were at no stage told of the trial.
The only visible signage was at the steps towards the seats and then at the seats themselves. Spectators had already bought drinks upon seeing those signs. No details of the trial, which imposed regulations on 627 seats, were outlined on the ticketing app, leading spectators to feel misled and frustrated
Drunkest man I ever saw was in a curry house in Ramsgate. Arrived by taxi, the driver of which brought him in and paid in advance for said chaps food. When his meal arrived he started to eat and ended up with trying to consume the tablecloth…
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
Tucker Carlson: "It was a shock to me that Moscow, where I had never been before, the largest European city with 13 million people, was much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea about that. It is much cleaner, safer, and prettier aesthetically. Its architecture, food, services are better than any city in the United States."
On Sunak, although his PMQs trans jibe attracted much comment, his interview with Piers Morgan received little coverage but revealed more about Sunak's potential to be unpleasant, as well as his propensity to misjudge the views of the non-far-right electorate. I'm surprised it didn't get more coverage.
I'm referring to his allegation, by direct implication, that Starmer was a 'terrorist sympathiser' because in his lawyer days he'd acted for Hizb ut-Tahrir. It's really scraping the barrel, but it's also gratuitously poor politics because, whatever one's views of Starmer, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to think he was a terrorist sympathiser.
You say that, but actually we've got two posters on here who are constantly saying things like tha...yes, you're right.
Not really been following the Rochdale story. Does this mean that there will be no Labour candidate at all there?
Worse than that- Ali is still a candidate and will still have the Labour logo on the ballot paper. It's just that the party have disowned him.
Interesting experiment on the value of local campaigning, though. I wonder how many voters will see the Labour party name and symbol and vote for him anyway?
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
I’ve not tried that. Will do so. I do always use the salt as that makes the surface glossy.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
On Sunak, although his PMQs trans jibe attracted much comment, his interview with Piers Morgan received little coverage but revealed more about Sunak's potential to be unpleasant, as well as his propensity to misjudge the views of the non-far-right electorate. I'm surprised it didn't get more coverage.
I'm referring to his allegation, by direct implication, that Starmer was a 'terrorist sympathiser' because in his lawyer days he'd acted for Hizb ut-Tahrir. It's really scraping the barrel, but it's also gratuitously poor politics because, whatever one's views of Starmer, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to think he was a terrorist sympathiser.
Had he resigned from Corbyn's cabinet I'd have more faith that he wasn't.
Instead my view of Starmer is he has no sympathies or principles and will do whatever and say whatever to further his own career.
If that means saying Corbyn should be PM, then he'll do that to set himself up for the future. If that means kicking Corbyn to the curb when he has a chance, he'll do that too.
Still better than Sunak though.
Strange values - ambition and loyalty.
They don't always sit well together and the perception of them inside and outside the political bubble can be very different.
Ambitious politicians don't go into politics to be footnotes or to die gloriously on a principled hill which is forgotten 24 hours later - it's about staying in a position of influence and having to support policies which you privately may desist because they are the policies your party now supports until and unless you reach a breaking point (as I did). or you are in a position to change those policies to ones you think are more likely to win votes and get you to power.
That's how politics works - compromise, acceptance of the unacceptable until you have the power to change it. The ambition and the loyalty sit together symbiotically.
Had Starmer resigned, he wouldn't be in the position he is now where (aided and abetted to a considerable extent by the Conservative Party) he is on the brink of becoming our next Prime Minister.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
Yes, Bibi is a dreadful leader but the removal of him is a matter for the Israeli people, not western allies.
Tucker Carlson: "It was a shock to me that Moscow, where I had never been before, the largest European city with 13 million people, was much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea about that. It is much cleaner, safer, and prettier aesthetically. Its architecture, food, services are better than any city in the United States."
It does come as a pleasant surprise to find out how pretty Moscow is. Rather attractive and, in the centre, walkable city. But I think Tucker exaggerates because he was expecting some grey high rise hellhole out of Red Dawn.
He should visit Kyiv. Also a very liveable city, though a bit rougher edged than Moscow.
Gorgeous could cause Starmer no end of trouble and deliver a magnificent Con GE victory.
Rishi is a lucky General.
Nah, Galloway is a fringe figure with no purchase beyond the nastier adherents of one minority religion.
What'll deliver the next Con victory - in the GE after next - will be the complete mess that Labour makes when they get their hands on power and strive to do as little as possible with it.
If you're going to have Tories in power you might as well have the real deal, not a pale pink tribute band, which is what we have coming next.
If Labour show themselves to be more competent, less childish and less needlessly destructive than this particular vintage of the Tories then I think people might happily give them another go in 2028.
If.
We shall see what happens if there's another five years of decay and disintegration because they're too bloody scared of the assetocracy to do anything at all to upset the rickety apple cart. And everything we have heard from the Labour leadership suggests that their entire program for Government will consist of managing the status quo less badly (possibly) than the Tories. They're all about allowing the wealthy to keep all their loot, which necessarily means leaving everyone and everything else to rot. They're all about decline, playing down expectations, disappointment and disillusion. They're continuity Conservatives.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
No aspersions cast on you, but some of your Tory chums thought letterboxes, Picaninnies and Bank Robbers are of course simply satire and not offensive.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
Interesting. From what I can tell, most of the media have ignored this so fair play for Starmer doing the right thing rather than only acting after it's blown up.
Hearing there are going to be some new revelations to break tonight/overnight in this story.
Ali is a Hamas member?
Worse, he puts pineapple on his pizzas.
Python coding quant. No unit tests.
Say what you like about Arkan, but he never advocated a language that used indenting for flow control.
I was recently dissed by someone about not having unit tests in a codebase. Even though there are 1000s of them and a fully rounded well-tested CI/CD pipeline.
Said person had never seen the code, asked about it, or .... had any involvement with it. Just out-of-the-blue 'eyeroll'.
Said person made A Very Big Point of having their pristine 'Programming Using PHP 4' book on show at the meeting.
Luckily, everyone listened to me and totally took the real issue onboard and dismissed the PHP4 guy.
...
Oh. No, that's not what happened. I forgot. He was more important so now I need to, somehow, add more unit tests. Maybe `test_guy_is_a_twat_and_no_i_am_not_bitter()`. Thank goodness the taxpayer is picking up the bill or this would be really expensive!
On Sunak, although his PMQs trans jibe attracted much comment, his interview with Piers Morgan received little coverage but revealed more about Sunak's potential to be unpleasant, as well as his propensity to misjudge the views of the non-far-right electorate. I'm surprised it didn't get more coverage.
I'm referring to his allegation, by direct implication, that Starmer was a 'terrorist sympathiser' because in his lawyer days he'd acted for Hizb ut-Tahrir. It's really scraping the barrel, but it's also gratuitously poor politics because, whatever one's views of Starmer, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to think he was a terrorist sympathiser.
Had he resigned from Corbyn's cabinet I'd have more faith that he wasn't.
Instead my view of Starmer is he has no sympathies or principles and will do whatever and say whatever to further his own career.
If that means saying Corbyn should be PM, then he'll do that to set himself up for the future. If that means kicking Corbyn to the curb when he has a chance, he'll do that too.
Still better than Sunak though.
Strange values - ambition and loyalty.
They don't always sit well together and the perception of them inside and outside the political bubble can be very different.
Ambitious politicians don't go into politics to be footnotes or to die gloriously on a principled hill which is forgotten 24 hours later - it's about staying in a position of influence and having to support policies which you privately may desist because they are the policies your party now supports until and unless you reach a breaking point (as I did). or you are in a position to change those policies to ones you think are more likely to win votes and get you to power.
That's how politics works - compromise, acceptance of the unacceptable until you have the power to change it. The ambition and the loyalty sit together symbiotically.
Had Starmer resigned, he wouldn't be in the position he is now where (aided and abetted to a considerable extent by the Conservative Party) he is on the brink of becoming our next Prime Minister.
Maybe not, but then he would have had some principles and integrity.
Though whether that's true or not we'll never know, Boris resigned and became Prime Minister despite resigning so Starmer might have succeeded, we'll never know as he never tried.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
Yes, Bibi is a dreadful leader but the removal of him is a matter for the Israeli people, not western allies.
Decent response, at least you addressed the point.
Absolutely if the Israeli people vote to get this arsehole out then I will support them 100%.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Yes.
Do you think Palestine should exist? The Israeli government doesn’t.
Not really been following the Rochdale story. Does this mean that there will be no Labour candidate at all there?
The nominations are in already, meaning that Azhar Ali will be on the ballot paper as a Labour candidate, even though he is now suspended from the party.
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
I’ve not tried that. Will do so. I do always use the salt as that makes the surface glossy.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
What recipe do you follow ?
I do Mary Berry.
35g flour 1 egg 75ml milk
Proportionally.
TimS “cooking for boys”. I use 6 eggs, a bit of water and a bit of milk, and bung in some flour with a pinch of salt.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Yes.
Do you think Palestine should exist? The Israeli government doesn’t.
Maybe, in the future, if and only if the fighting against Israel ends and Israel's security is guaranteed.
Palestine is not a state, it is a potential future state, no more or less than Kurdistan and other potential future states around the globe.
Israel like Turkey is a state and it has a right to exist. Palestine like Kurdistan is not.
O/T but for light relief - **** Göbekli Tepe. Who needs Göbekli Tepe when you can have a wall at the bottom of the Baltic Sea more than ten millennia old?
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me calling you racist for supporting Corbyn.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Yes.
Do you think Palestine should exist? The Israeli government doesn’t.
Maybe, in the future, if and only if the fighting against Israel ends and Israel's security is guaranteed.
Palestine is not a state, it is a potential future state, no more or less than Kurdistan and other potential future states around the globe.
Israel like Turkey is a state and it has a right to exist. Palestine like Kurdistan is not.
I think that’s quite an appalling but not unexpected reply.
The future requires Hamas being destroyed, an establishment of a Palestinian state free of Hamas and a free Israel hopefully with their current leadership voted out.
Just imagine if I’d said what you said but about Israel, you would be rightly calling it out for the disgusting tripe it is.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
You and I both know desirable though that objective may be, it's probably not achievable. Some Hamas fighters will escape and I strongly suspect a new generation of fighters will emerge, radicalised by the experience of the Israeli invasion.
It will buy Israel some time and the hope must be the time is used constructively by all sides to build a new kind of Palestinian political state which starts from the recognition of Israel's right to exist.
Total koranian clusterfuck for Labour in Rochdale. However they will get away with it because: Tories, huge poll leads
However I think this toxic combo of Wokeism, anti-Semitism, pro-migration, mad trans attitudes, crypto-islamism and on and on - is going to completely destroy them in office, and very quickly. They won’t have an answer because the party itself is fiendishly split and infested with vile nonsense
It won’t be great for Britain but at least it will be fun for right wingers, after 14 years of effete not-very-right, disappointing Tory governments
"toxic combo of Wokeism, anti-Semitism, pro-migration, mad trans attitudes, crypto-islamism and on and on"
Still, makes a change from the boring old 'tax bombshell' doesn't it?
I'd love a Tory canvasser to knock at my door and try that line though. I'd have time to slam the door on them before they'd had their 3rd attempt at it.
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
You and I both know desirable though that objective may be, it's probably not achievable. Some Hamas fighters will escape and I strongly suspect a new generation of fighters will emerge, radicalised by the experience of the Israeli invasion.
It will buy Israel some time and the hope must be the time is used constructively by all sides to build a new kind of Palestinian political state which starts from the recognition of Israel's right to exist.
Couldn’t have said it better. But Bart doesn’t even for certain think Palestine should exist. That seems to be a resolution for an unlimited conflict after Hamas are destroyed. We need to be supporting the existence of Palestine now without Hamas if we are to ever end this properly.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
You never have but I wasn’t suggesting you were. I was suggesting by not calling me one you were wrong. I absolutely was in my support of Corbyn. He was and is a racist and I was a racist for supporting him. That’s a matter of great shame to me but at least I am honest enough to admit it. So many others have not.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
You and I both know desirable though that objective may be, it's probably not achievable. Some Hamas fighters will escape and I strongly suspect a new generation of fighters will emerge, radicalised by the experience of the Israeli invasion.
It will buy Israel some time and the hope must be the time is used constructively by all sides to build a new kind of Palestinian political state which starts from the recognition of Israel's right to exist.
Where will they escape to? Syria? Egypt? Libya? I'm not sure Israel will be too upset if the fighters are there rather than in the land Israel is responsible for.
I'd love to see space for a future Palestinian political state, or a future Kurdish state, or other future possible state, and that space might exist once the war is won and Hamas surrender unconditionally. There is absolutely no right to it today.
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The conflict will not end long term until Palestine is established, I cannot see how that can possibly be disputed by anyone?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
Tucker Carlson: "It was a shock to me that Moscow, where I had never been before, the largest European city with 13 million people, was much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea about that. It is much cleaner, safer, and prettier aesthetically. Its architecture, food, services are better than any city in the United States."
It does come as a pleasant surprise to find out how pretty Moscow is. Rather attractive and, in the centre, walkable city. But I think Tucker exaggerates because he was expecting some grey high rise hellhole out of Red Dawn.
He should visit Kyiv. Also a very liveable city, though a bit rougher edged than Moscow.
I was there for the 2018 World Cup final and it is indeed a beautiful city, at least in the summer sun. I was surprised how it was in many ways, lots of sushi restaurants for example, and in June an almost Italian streetlife in the sunshine We had a great time, and one day I would love to go back.
The grimness of most of Russia was visible from the train between St Petersburg and Moscow, forest with run down small towns of obvious neglect and decline. As bad or worse than any bit of Appalachia or the British rust belt.
You cannot really judge a country by the state of the centre of its biggest city.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
If Israel wanted 2.3m Gazans dead then we'd have that already, or hundreds of thousands of dead. Israel have fought this conflict with gloves on trying to minimise civilian casualties - which is the right thing to do.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
FOS
I cannot think how anyone could suggest such a ridiculous thing, even if the west could remove the Israeli government
Removing Bibi is not the maddest idea, the World would be a safer place. Obviously by appropriate constitutional means. Pressure from the US and the EU could expedite such an event.
Can we place Rochdale Labour in the By-elections hall of fame for poor choices of candidate. Had they all just transferred from Sheffield Hallam or something?
I thought Rochdale was tricky for them. Now I suppose they can try to wave off a defeat as 'exceptional circumstances'. Not sure I accept that. Meanwhile, on a probable very low turnout, if Galloway can get his people to turn out then who knows?
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
You never have but I wasn’t suggesting you were. I was suggesting by not calling me one you were wrong. I absolutely was in my support of Corbyn. He was and is a racist and I was a racist for supporting him. That’s a matter of great shame to me but at least I am honest enough to admit it. So many others have not.
Can Palestinians conceive a state that doesn't want to destroy its neighbour?
On Sunak, although his PMQs trans jibe attracted much comment, his interview with Piers Morgan received little coverage but revealed more about Sunak's potential to be unpleasant, as well as his propensity to misjudge the views of the non-far-right electorate. I'm surprised it didn't get more coverage.
I'm referring to his allegation, by direct implication, that Starmer was a 'terrorist sympathiser' because in his lawyer days he'd acted for Hizb ut-Tahrir. It's really scraping the barrel, but it's also gratuitously poor politics because, whatever one's views of Starmer, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to think he was a terrorist sympathiser.
Had he resigned from Corbyn's cabinet I'd have more faith that he wasn't.
Instead my view of Starmer is he has no sympathies or principles and will do whatever and say whatever to further his own career.
If that means saying Corbyn should be PM, then he'll do that to set himself up for the future. If that means kicking Corbyn to the curb when he has a chance, he'll do that too.
Still better than Sunak though.
Strange values - ambition and loyalty.
They don't always sit well together and the perception of them inside and outside the political bubble can be very different.
Ambitious politicians don't go into politics to be footnotes or to die gloriously on a principled hill which is forgotten 24 hours later - it's about staying in a position of influence and having to support policies which you privately may desist because they are the policies your party now supports until and unless you reach a breaking point (as I did). or you are in a position to change those policies to ones you think are more likely to win votes and get you to power.
That's how politics works - compromise, acceptance of the unacceptable until you have the power to change it. The ambition and the loyalty sit together symbiotically.
Had Starmer resigned, he wouldn't be in the position he is now where (aided and abetted to a considerable extent by the Conservative Party) he is on the brink of becoming our next Prime Minister.
Maybe not, but then he would have had some principles and integrity.
Though whether that's true or not we'll never know, Boris resigned and became Prime Minister despite resigning so Starmer might have succeeded, we'll never know as he never tried.
Take that a step further and you can argue both Wilson and Thatcher resigned from Cabinets and it didn't do them any harm in the long term.
I don't know whether either Rebecca Long-Bailey or Lisa Nandy would have done what Starmer has done but on the assumption one or either would have been elected Labour leader in May 2020 they would have benefitted from the disastrous Conservative implosion every bit as Starmer has.
Starmer has been able to convince a large proportion of the electorate the Labour Party he leads is certainly not Corbyn's Labour and is much closer to Blair's non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left. Whether Long-Bailey or Nandy could or would have done this I don't know - you might argue a more radical approach might be even more popular to a frustrated and angery electorate.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
You never have but I wasn’t suggesting you were. I was suggesting by not calling me one you were wrong. I absolutely was in my support of Corbyn. He was and is a racist and I was a racist for supporting him. That’s a matter of great shame to me but at least I am honest enough to admit it. So many others have not.
You are being weirdly hard on yourself. I think you saw something in the whole package offered by Corbyn. You were not alone, as his 2017 result showed. That you came to realise his true nature was matched by many others. It does not make you a racist, any more than it does people who voted conservative in 2019. The world is complex.
I did not think there was honestly anyone left who didn’t think the Israeli Government was run by a facist bully? I don’t think anyone who wants to see Hamas destroyed even thinks the Israeli Government shouldn’t be voted out at the earliest opportunity. So it’s quite surprising to see people actually saying they disagree.
There’s so much evidence of what they have done, what they have said. That I find it hard to level that with people saying they don’t think they’re a disgusting enterprise.
Can we place Rochdale Labour in the By-elections hall of fame for poor choices of candidate. Had they all just transferred from Sheffield Hallam or something?
I thought Rochdale was tricky for them. Now I suppose they can try to wave off a defeat as 'exceptional circumstances'. Not sure I accept that. Meanwhile, on a probable very low turnout, if Galloway can get his people to turn out then who knows?
I suspect Labour will win anyway, and withdraw the whip immediately.
Being an antisemitic conspiracist may not be that much of an electoral turnoff there, indeed may well steal votes from Galloway.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
If Israel wanted 2.3m Gazans dead then we'd have that already, or hundreds of thousands of dead. Israel have fought this conflict with gloves on trying to minimise civilian casualties - which is the right thing to do.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
Your narrative comes close to crossing the morality line. Perhaps it is just a clumsy writing style.
Can we place Rochdale Labour in the By-elections hall of fame for poor choices of candidate. Had they all just transferred from Sheffield Hallam or something?
I thought Rochdale was tricky for them. Now I suppose they can try to wave off a defeat as 'exceptional circumstances'. Not sure I accept that. Meanwhile, on a probable very low turnout, if Galloway can get his people to turn out then who knows?
Galloway has won a by election in the past. I wouldn't rule out him doing it again. Sadly
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
You never have but I wasn’t suggesting you were. I was suggesting by not calling me one you were wrong. I absolutely was in my support of Corbyn. He was and is a racist and I was a racist for supporting him. That’s a matter of great shame to me but at least I am honest enough to admit it. So many others have not.
You are being weirdly hard on yourself. I think you saw something in the whole package offered by Corbyn. You were not alone, as his 2017 result showed. That you came to realise his true nature was matched by many others. It does not make you a racist, any more than it does people who voted conservative in 2019. The world is complex.
Not being hard on myself dude, just being honest! It is quite obvious that he is and was a racist and so supporting him was furthering that idea. Nothing wrong with saying that, I absolutely was not alone but that does not make it not racist!
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The conflict will not end long term until Palestine is established, I cannot see how that can possibly be disputed by anyone?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
You may have missed Sky's report tonight that a ceasefire deal has been agreed by all parties but Netanyahu refuses to agree as it would be the end of him
A two state solution is the only answer but unfortunately it seems further away then ever but to be fair Sunak and Cameron are very much in favour of this answer
It is up the Israeli's to deal with Netanyahu as any outside intervention, other than through diplomacy will only end in more tears
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The conflict will not end long term until Palestine is established, I cannot see how that can possibly be disputed by anyone?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
Plenty of terrorists and other agitators around the world either now or in the past want or have wanted a state of their own. Palestinians, Kurds, Catalans, Basques, Uyhurs, Tajiks, Jumma, Tibetans, Kashmir, Tamil Tigers and more.
Not a single damned one of them has any right to a state while there's a conflict going on. I would rather it be resolved democratically, but to turn violent and demand statehood otherwise conflict will continue - well that leaves four options: surrender, negotiate, or arrest or kill the people fighting. Both are legitimate options to follow and states are perfectly entitled to choose option three/four.
The Palestinians have no more right to a state than the Basques, Kurds or anyone else.
"We're standing by our candidate who said some terrible things"
What? Really?
"Well no, not really."
So we now have a Parliamentary by election that Labour should walk without a candidate who the party itself can support. Careless would be an extremely generous description. Following on from the Green £28bn it is starting look Starmer really doesn't know what he is doing. And he's not even PM yet.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
This fellow was one of their councillors for years and he got an OBE. He’s stood for them in parliamentary elections before. How did they not know he was a wrongun?
Everyone knew Johnson was a wrongun. Why did you vote for him?
Because it was the only way to get MPs to honour the referendum result
A very poor excuse indeed.
No, that’s the main reason I voted Tory too, and the awfulness of Corbyn.
Clearly racism only matters for you when Labour does it.
Why do you say that? What are you accusing me off?
You abhor racism from Corbyn rightly yet supported a racist in Boris Johnson.
I don’t support Johnson. I voted for Andrew Morrison, the conservative candidate in my constituency. I wanted a conservative government to end the pathetic impasse in parliament. I wanted the delusional ‘magic grandpa’ nowhere near power.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
I was told I was racist for supporting Corbyn on this very forum. And they were right. I was.
I bet I didn’t.
Well you’d be wrong.
Go on, drag through PB history and show me a post of me being racist.
Take your time.
No as in, you’d be wrong to not call me a racist. Because I certainly was supporting Corbyn.
Sorry, misread your post then changed my response.
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
You never have but I wasn’t suggesting you were. I was suggesting by not calling me one you were wrong. I absolutely was in my support of Corbyn. He was and is a racist and I was a racist for supporting him. That’s a matter of great shame to me but at least I am honest enough to admit it. So many others have not.
Can Palestinians conceive a state that doesn't want to destroy its neighbour?
Vile but not unsurprising. Imagine replacing that for Jews and you would rightly be calling me racist.
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
I’ve not tried that. Will do so. I do always use the salt as that makes the surface glossy.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
What recipe do you follow ?
I do Mary Berry.
35g flour 1 egg 75ml milk
Proportionally.
TimS “cooking for boys”. I use 6 eggs, a bit of water and a bit of milk, and bung in some flour with a pinch of salt.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
FOS
I cannot think how anyone could suggest such a ridiculous thing, even if the west could remove the Israeli government
Removing Bibi is not the maddest idea, the World would be a safer place. Obviously by appropriate constitutional means. Pressure from the US and the EU could expedite such an event.
I doubt it. More likely to get Israelis to rally round their PM and flag.
No country likes having its government changed by foreigners, not even an unpopular government.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
If Israel wanted 2.3m Gazans dead then we'd have that already, or hundreds of thousands of dead. Israel have fought this conflict with gloves on trying to minimise civilian casualties - which is the right thing to do.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
Your narrative comes close to crossing the morality line. Perhaps it is just a clumsy writing style.
How? Why?
Morally states always have a right to proportionately target those who are fighting them.
Other especially neighbouring states have a moral responsibility to offer refuge to those who wish to escape the conflict zone.
No state is ever under a moral obligation to surrender to those who would do it ill. No state is ever denied the right to defend itself.
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The conflict will not end long term until Palestine is established, I cannot see how that can possibly be disputed by anyone?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
You may have missed Sky's report tonight that a ceasefire deal has been agreed by all parties but Netanyahu refuses to agree as it would be the end of him
A two state solution is the only answer but unfortunately it seems further away then ever but to be fair Sunak and Cameron are very much in favour of this answer
It is up the Israeli's to deal with Netanyahu as any outside intervention, other than through diplomacy will only end in more tears
How could it have been agreed by all parties when the leader of the nation that was attacked hasn't agreed? Isn't the county that was attacked a party to the conflict and doesn't their elected leader get a say on whether an agreement is reached or not?
Considering Hamas hasn't been destroyed yet and the hostages haven't been released yet, it would be very weak of Netanyahu to end the conflict prematurely.
Can we place Rochdale Labour in the By-elections hall of fame for poor choices of candidate. Had they all just transferred from Sheffield Hallam or something?
I thought Rochdale was tricky for them. Now I suppose they can try to wave off a defeat as 'exceptional circumstances'. Not sure I accept that. Meanwhile, on a probable very low turnout, if Galloway can get his people to turn out then who knows?
Come the GE impose Paul Waugh as the candidate and romp home and take the seat. Irrespective of what happens in the by-election.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
If Israel wanted 2.3m Gazans dead then we'd have that already, or hundreds of thousands of dead. Israel have fought this conflict with gloves on trying to minimise civilian casualties - which is the right thing to do.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
Your narrative comes close to crossing the morality line. Perhaps it is just a clumsy writing style.
How? Why?
Morally states always have a right to proportionately target those who are fighting them.
Other especially neighbouring states have a moral responsibility to offer refuge to those who wish to escape the conflict zone.
No state is ever under a moral obligation to surrender to those who would do it ill. No state is ever denied the right to defend itself.
"No state is ever denied the right to defend itself". Absolutely, but with strict UN rules of engagement. I would suggest Bibi is probably not following those rules.
I'm curious how @AverageNinja reconciles the legitimate objective of destroying Hamas with desire to end the conflict.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
The conflict will not end long term until Palestine is established, I cannot see how that can possibly be disputed by anyone?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
You may have missed Sky's report tonight that a ceasefire deal has been agreed by all parties but Netanyahu refuses to agree as it would be the end of him
A two state solution is the only answer but unfortunately it seems further away then ever but to be fair Sunak and Cameron are very much in favour of this answer
It is up the Israeli's to deal with Netanyahu as any outside intervention, other than through diplomacy will only end in more tears
How could it have been agreed by all parties when the leader of the nation that was attacked hasn't agreed? Isn't the county that was attacked a party to the conflict and doesn't their elected leader get a say on whether an agreement is reached or not?
Considering Hamas hasn't been destroyed yet and the hostages haven't been released yet, it would be very weak of Netanyahu to end the conflict prematurely.
According to Sky it has been agreed, including by many Israeli's, but Netanyahu is scared of his right wing and will not agree
This is a very volatile position for Netanyahu to be in, and I expect the US and UK and others to lean heavily on him, not least in view of Sunak and Cameron's comments today
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
I’ve not tried that. Will do so. I do always use the salt as that makes the surface glossy.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
What recipe do you follow ?
I do Mary Berry.
35g flour 1 egg 75ml milk
Proportionally.
TimS “cooking for boys”. I use 6 eggs, a bit of water and a bit of milk, and bung in some flour with a pinch of salt.
6 eggs !!
How many yorkshires are you making ?
Big vat of toad (or hole, I suppose, if the toad is the sausage). I would hazard around a pint and a half / just under a litre of batter.
The West should remove the Israeli government at this point
Why?
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
The Israeli government are not doing a good job of that. Their leader is a fascist bully uninterested in ending this conflict and uninterested in a Palestinian state. His own words. I am sure support a Palestinian state?
That's as pathetic as the Sunday morning trolls bemoaning that Ukraine won't end the conflict. Hamas started this war, Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, by destroying Hamas completely.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
Do you agree that their leader is a facist bully or not?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
No I don't.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Not if the price is 2.3m Gazans. You seem comfortable with that. Bibi would be comfortable with 2.3 m dead (see Max Hastings's analysis of Bibi's apparent hatred of Palestinians). I would like to believe you have a more accurate moral compass than Bibi
If Israel wanted 2.3m Gazans dead then we'd have that already, or hundreds of thousands of dead. Israel have fought this conflict with gloves on trying to minimise civilian casualties - which is the right thing to do.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
Your narrative comes close to crossing the morality line. Perhaps it is just a clumsy writing style.
How? Why?
Morally states always have a right to proportionately target those who are fighting them.
Other especially neighbouring states have a moral responsibility to offer refuge to those who wish to escape the conflict zone.
No state is ever under a moral obligation to surrender to those who would do it ill. No state is ever denied the right to defend itself.
"No state is ever denied the right to defend itself". Absolutely, but with strict UN rules of engagement. I would suggest Bibi is probably not following those rules.
Why?
They're being proportional, keeping civilian casualties as low as possible while still following the objectives, which is the law.
They have a right to follow through on their objectives, in the most proportional way possible. If the objective is to destroy Hamas they have a right to follow through on that, in the most proportional way possible.
If you have a more proportional way to destroy Hamas, I'd love to hear it. Saying to Hamas "go to Rafah and we won't touch you" isn't destroying Hamas, there can't be any safe zones in war zones, safe zones need to be outside of the conflict zone.
I have a hunch, this isn’t the only “total fecking shambles” like this this year.
If you were any of the parties holding something juicy on a rival candidate, from social media or otherwise, you’d wait till nominations are closed before pushing it out there.
The Conservative attack on antisemitism in Labour was blunted last time by the evidence seeping out of Islamophobia in the Tory Party - that’s been seeping out under scrutiny of election time the last 10 years - Javid asked Boris Johnson for an enquiry during the leadership election 2019. There will also be at least one candidate who’s been sexting the wrong person, or hasn’t been using Whip Office approved brothels or escorts. Financially benefiting from government decisions and contracts, especially during covid, might also be dirt tucked up in a safe somewhere, perhaps some big Tory beasts might be slain by financial dirt during the campaign, factoring in the greedy ill disciplined attitude this parliament will be noted for.
Comments
Sorry if this is teaching Granny, but I have a tip for the Yorkshire Pudding.
Sift the plain flour through a sieve into the bowl, but when you do so, hold the sieve well above the bowl. This is not to remove lumps from the flour (you don't get any these days) but it allows air into it. The result is a light, airy pudding which rises pleasantly and gives that neat crust that is to die for.
Apologies if you knew this already.
PS. And don't forget the pinch of salt.
Tucker Carlson: "It was a shock to me that Moscow, where I had never been before, the largest European city with 13 million people, was much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea about that. It is much cleaner, safer, and prettier aesthetically. Its architecture, food, services are better than any city in the United States."
Hamas needs to be destroyed, that means fighting in the whole of Gaza until every last Hamas fighter is dead or surrenders unconditionally.
What have Israel done wrong?
Neighbouring states should take refugees in to have a safe harbour as there won't be anywhere safe in Gaza as long as its a war zone.
My trick is basically as many eggs as humanly possible, plus one for luck.
Interesting experiment on the value of local campaigning, though. I wonder how many voters will see the Labour party name and symbol and vote for him anyway?
I do Mary Berry.
35g flour
1 egg
75ml milk
Proportionally.
The way to end this conflict is to kill everyone supporting and fighting for Hamas until they are either all dead or they surrender unconditionally.
Once that's done, then there can be talk about what happens next.
They don't always sit well together and the perception of them inside and outside the political bubble can be very different.
Ambitious politicians don't go into politics to be footnotes or to die gloriously on a principled hill which is forgotten 24 hours later - it's about staying in a position of influence and having to support policies which you privately may desist because they are the policies your party now supports until and unless you reach a breaking point (as I did). or you are in a position to change those policies to ones you think are more likely to win votes and get you to power.
That's how politics works - compromise, acceptance of the unacceptable until you have the power to change it. The ambition and the loyalty sit together symbiotically.
Had Starmer resigned, he wouldn't be in the position he is now where (aided and abetted to a considerable extent by the Conservative Party) he is on the brink of becoming our next Prime Minister.
I think we both know that removing governments rarely if ever ends well.
I think removing our current UK government could well end up well.
He should visit Kyiv. Also a very liveable city, though a bit rougher edged than Moscow.
We shall see what happens if there's another five years of decay and disintegration because they're too bloody scared of the assetocracy to do anything at all to upset the rickety apple cart. And everything we have heard from the Labour leadership suggests that their entire program for Government will consist of managing the status quo less badly (possibly) than the Tories. They're all about allowing the wealthy to keep all their loot, which necessarily means leaving everyone and everything else to rot. They're all about decline, playing down expectations, disappointment and disillusion. They're continuity Conservatives.
No aspersions cast on you, but some of your Tory chums thought letterboxes, Picaninnies and Bank Robbers are of course simply satire and not offensive.
Oh, not that Azhar Ali?
You are correct but that is not what Israel is doing. They are purposefully ensuring the maximum loss of life.
I do not understand how anyone can support a government that literally believes Palestine should not exist. That is as bad as the nut jobs that don’t think Israel should.
Why don't you fuck off and let the Israelis choose their own government?
Said person had never seen the code, asked about it, or .... had any involvement with it. Just out-of-the-blue 'eyeroll'.
Said person made A Very Big Point of having their pristine 'Programming Using PHP 4' book on show at the meeting.
Luckily, everyone listened to me and totally took the real issue onboard and dismissed the PHP4 guy.
...
Oh. No, that's not what happened. I forgot. He was more important so now I need to, somehow, add more unit tests. Maybe `test_guy_is_a_twat_and_no_i_am_not_bitter()`. Thank goodness the taxpayer is picking up the bill or this would be really expensive!
Though whether that's true or not we'll never know, Boris resigned and became Prime Minister despite resigning so Starmer might have succeeded, we'll never know as he never tried.
Absolutely if the Israeli people vote to get this arsehole out then I will support them 100%.
I abhor racism. You need to think a bit more about the Workd is complex. Actions have many cause. A vote for a Conservative MP in 2019 does not make me a racist, and I hope you would be man enough to withdraw that slur.
Do you agree that Hamas need to be destroyed?
Do you think Palestine should exist? The Israeli government doesn’t.
Not if Russia did it… Or the US!
It needs calling out
Palestine is not a state, it is a potential future state, no more or less than Kurdistan and other potential future states around the globe.
Israel like Turkey is a state and it has a right to exist. Palestine like Kurdistan is not.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/feb/12/stone-age-wall-found-at-bottom-of-baltic-sea-may-be-europes-oldest-megastructure
Better and much more convincing pics in original paper
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121
Take your time.
The future requires Hamas being destroyed, an establishment of a Palestinian state free of Hamas and a free Israel hopefully with their current leadership voted out.
Just imagine if I’d said what you said but about Israel, you would be rightly calling it out for the disgusting tripe it is.
Poor from you indeed.
It will buy Israel some time and the hope must be the time is used constructively by all sides to build a new kind of Palestinian political state which starts from the recognition of Israel's right to exist.
Israel doesn't need to end the conflict, it needs to win the conflict, that means nowhere in land they control should be safe harbour for Hamas. Not Rafah, not anywhere.
If people want safe refuge away from the conflict, it needs to be outside the warzone. Same as every other war in history.
Who and with whom and how?
I am certain I have not called you a racist. I am pretty sure you are not.
I'd love to see space for a future Palestinian political state, or a future Kurdish state, or other future possible state, and that space might exist once the war is won and Hamas surrender unconditionally. There is absolutely no right to it today.
Do you want an anarchist Israel?
You are absolutely right about Hamas but everything else I think you’re wrong. When David Cameron wants to establish Palestine but not the current Israeli government. Which is why I said that they are not really interested in actually ending the conflict.
Destroying Hamas yes, ending it and ensuring peace, no. Don’t see what is controversial about that.
The grimness of most of Russia was visible from the train between St Petersburg and Moscow, forest with run down small towns of obvious neglect and decline. As bad or worse than any bit of Appalachia or the British rust belt.
You cannot really judge a country by the state of the centre of its biggest city.
I'd rather the innocent Gazans get refuge in a safe haven, but the presence of civilians never has and never will be a reason not to proportionately target legitimate military targets, which is what Israel is rightly doing.
I thought Rochdale was tricky for them. Now I suppose they can try to wave off a defeat as 'exceptional circumstances'. Not sure I accept that. Meanwhile, on a probable very low turnout, if Galloway can get his people to turn out then who knows?
I don't know whether either Rebecca Long-Bailey or Lisa Nandy would have done what Starmer has done but on the assumption one or either would have been elected Labour leader in May 2020 they would have benefitted from the disastrous Conservative implosion every bit as Starmer has.
Starmer has been able to convince a large proportion of the electorate the Labour Party he leads is certainly not Corbyn's Labour and is much closer to Blair's non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left. Whether Long-Bailey or Nandy could or would have done this I don't know - you might argue a more radical approach might be even more popular to a frustrated and angery electorate.
There’s so much evidence of what they have done, what they have said. That I find it hard to level that with people saying they don’t think they’re a disgusting enterprise.
Being an antisemitic conspiracist may not be that much of an electoral turnoff there, indeed may well steal votes from Galloway.
A two state solution is the only answer but unfortunately it seems further away then ever but to be fair Sunak and Cameron are very much in favour of this answer
It is up the Israeli's to deal with Netanyahu as any outside intervention, other than through diplomacy will only end in more tears
Not a single damned one of them has any right to a state while there's a conflict going on. I would rather it be resolved democratically, but to turn violent and demand statehood otherwise conflict will continue - well that leaves four options: surrender, negotiate, or arrest or kill the people fighting. Both are legitimate options to follow and states are perfectly entitled to choose option three/four.
The Palestinians have no more right to a state than the Basques, Kurds or anyone else.
Not the best of timing perhaps.
"We're standing by our candidate who said some terrible things"
What? Really?
"Well no, not really."
So we now have a Parliamentary by election that Labour should walk without a candidate who the party itself can support. Careless would be an extremely generous description. Following on from the Green £28bn it is starting look Starmer really doesn't know what he is doing. And he's not even PM yet.
That’s a line crossed for me. You’re out.
How many yorkshires are you making ?
No country likes having its government changed by foreigners, not even an unpopular government.
Morally states always have a right to proportionately target those who are fighting them.
Other especially neighbouring states have a moral responsibility to offer refuge to those who wish to escape the conflict zone.
No state is ever under a moral obligation to surrender to those who would do it ill.
No state is ever denied the right to defend itself.
Considering Hamas hasn't been destroyed yet and the hostages haven't been released yet, it would be very weak of Netanyahu to end the conflict prematurely.
This is a very volatile position for Netanyahu to be in, and I expect the US and UK and others to lean heavily on him, not least in view of Sunak and Cameron's comments today
They're being proportional, keeping civilian casualties as low as possible while still following the objectives, which is the law.
They have a right to follow through on their objectives, in the most proportional way possible. If the objective is to destroy Hamas they have a right to follow through on that, in the most proportional way possible.
If you have a more proportional way to destroy Hamas, I'd love to hear it. Saying to Hamas "go to Rafah and we won't touch you" isn't destroying Hamas, there can't be any safe zones in war zones, safe zones need to be outside of the conflict zone.
If you were any of the parties holding something juicy on a rival candidate, from social media or otherwise, you’d wait till nominations are closed before pushing it out there.
The Conservative attack on antisemitism in Labour was blunted last time by the evidence seeping out of Islamophobia in the Tory Party - that’s been seeping out under scrutiny of election time the last 10 years - Javid asked Boris Johnson for an enquiry during the leadership election 2019. There will also be at least one candidate who’s been sexting the wrong person, or hasn’t been using Whip Office approved brothels or escorts. Financially benefiting from government decisions and contracts, especially during covid, might also be dirt tucked up in a safe somewhere, perhaps some big Tory beasts might be slain by financial dirt during the campaign, factoring in the greedy ill disciplined attitude this parliament will be noted for.
https://news.sky.com/story/matt-hancock-defends-use-of-taxpayer-funded-jaguar-for-covid-inquiry-appearances-13070286