Has anyone here got the Dyson or Apple headphones? I refuse to believe they could possibly be worth double the price of my $450 Bose NC700s.
I wasn’t aware that Dyson made them until seeing that tweet. Presumably they have a vacuum function to clean your ear canal.
If I’m paying $900 for them, they’d better be good at sucking something.
They are a rare commercial dud from Dyson.
If you’re going up against Bose, Sony, and Apple, not to mention the off-brand noice-cancellers which are getting a lot better, you sure as hell want to make sure you have clearly the best product if you’re looking for such a massive premium. What were they thinking?
I really don't know.
It seems like they thought "well, we're all going to be wearing masks for ever due to Covid, so let's be the first to integrate one into a pair of headphones."
Also, they forgot that there's a reason why Sony and Bose make their headphones as light as possible: it's because it's uncomfortable wandering around wearing headphones that weight the best part of a kilo.
It sounds like Apple have also forgotten that lesson based on your comments about their goggles.
The AVP is clearly a first generation product. It needs to come down in weight and it needs its weight to be better distributed. It also needs to auto adjust itself somehow: no one wants to spend two minutes adjusting the fit before the image comes into focus.
Also: they need to sort out text input.
On the other hand...
It's a glimpse of a possible future, where we won't need screens on our desks. We will be able to simply pick up something no heavier than a pair of ski goggles, and get the best screens in the world.
I watched some football highlights last night, on the equivalent of an Imax screen. It was insane. Why would I want to use a little phone or tablet when I carry around the world's greatest cinema.
Exactly. As I’ve been saying - they will obviously replace all screens - once they sort out the weight and awkwardness issues
They remind me of the very first mobiles. Remember them? Size of an actual brick and about as heavy? Within a few short years they were vastly smaller - the same will happen here, but probably even quicker, as the potential is so clear and any company left behind will end up like BlackBerry or Kodak, so competition will be intense. Apple have just fired the starting gun
Samsung, whose business is both mobile and displays, will be more than a little nervous.
According to this forum the only alternative is Trump. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
I don’t really follow US politics at all, but seeing this I don’t think I’d trust Biden to get the fish & chips on a Friday without forgetting what he’d gone out for.
You’d prefer Trump?
I don’t know enough about it to say either way, but surely there is a younger Democrat that could replace Biden, this looks like a piss take
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
Look at that list and suddenly it occurs to you: It could be terminal. They could end up with about 7 seats. This is the end. Starmer, Streeting, Reeves look like giant statesmen, Churchill, Gladstone, Jenkins by comparison. This bunch of decent folk our thin hope of sanity.
According to this forum the only alternative is Trump. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
I don’t really follow US politics at all, but seeing this I don’t think I’d trust Biden to get the fish & chips on a Friday without forgetting what he’d gone out for.
You’d prefer Trump?
I don’t know enough about it to say either way, but surely there is a younger Democrat that could replace Biden, this looks like a piss take
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
According to this forum the only alternative is Trump. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
I don’t really follow US politics at all, but seeing this I don’t think I’d trust Biden to get the fish & chips on a Friday without forgetting what he’d gone out for.
You’d prefer Trump?
I don’t know enough about it to say either way, but surely there is a younger Democrat that could replace Biden, this looks like a piss take
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
He resigned his seat as I recall, so it's his own fault that there's no way back for Worzel.
Has anyone here got the Dyson or Apple headphones? I refuse to believe they could possibly be worth double the price of my $450 Bose NC700s.
I wasn’t aware that Dyson made them until seeing that tweet. Presumably they have a vacuum function to clean your ear canal.
If I’m paying $900 for them, they’d better be good at sucking something.
They are a rare commercial dud from Dyson.
If you’re going up against Bose, Sony, and Apple, not to mention the off-brand noice-cancellers which are getting a lot better, you sure as hell want to make sure you have clearly the best product if you’re looking for such a massive premium. What were they thinking?
I really don't know.
It seems like they thought "well, we're all going to be wearing masks for ever due to Covid, so let's be the first to integrate one into a pair of headphones."
Also, they forgot that there's a reason why Sony and Bose make their headphones as light as possible: it's because it's uncomfortable wandering around wearing headphones that weight the best part of a kilo.
It sounds like Apple have also forgotten that lesson based on your comments about their goggles.
The AVP is clearly a first generation product. It needs to come down in weight and it needs its weight to be better distributed. It also needs to auto adjust itself somehow: no one wants to spend two minutes adjusting the fit before the image comes into focus.
Also: they need to sort out text input.
On the other hand...
It's a glimpse of a possible future, where we won't need screens on our desks. We will be able to simply pick up something no heavier than a pair of ski goggles, and get the best screens in the world.
I watched some football highlights last night, on the equivalent of an Imax screen. It was insane. Why would I want to use a little phone or tablet when I carry around the world's greatest cinema.
Exactly. As I’ve been saying - they will obviously replace all screens - once they sort out the weight and awkwardness issues
They remind me of the very first mobiles. Remember them? Size of an actual brick and about as heavy? Within a few short years they were vastly smaller - the same will happen here, but probably even quicker, as the potential is so clear and any company left behind will end up like BlackBerry or Kodak, so competition will be intense. Apple have just fired the starting gun
Samsung, whose business is both mobile and displays, will be more than a little nervous.
Zzzzzz. It’s all tech. Real life is more interesting.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
He resigned his seat as I recall, so it's his own fault that there's no way back for Worzel.
NEW I am told on good authority that after the launch of PopCon today 70 donors and supporters gathered for drinks at Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg's house nearby.
There were 30 Conservative MPs at the party - far more than the dozen or so who were at the launch ...
Drinks? Hold on. Surely “the civil service should be chained to their desks” Mogg didn’t endorse this during the working day? That would be hypocritical.
According to this forum the only alternative is Trump. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
I don’t really follow US politics at all, but seeing this I don’t think I’d trust Biden to get the fish & chips on a Friday without forgetting what he’d gone out for.
You’d prefer Trump?
I don’t know enough about it to say either way, but surely there is a younger Democrat that could replace Biden, this looks like a piss take
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
Look at that list and suddenly it occurs to you: It could be terminal. They could end up with about 7 seats. This is the end. Starmer, Streeting, Reeves look like giant statesmen, Churchill, Gladstone, Jenkins by comparison. This bunch of decent folk our thin hope of sanity.
Let’s not get carried away. More Coldplay v. Right Said Fred.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
He resigned his seat as I recall, so it's his own fault that there's no way back for Worzel.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
He resigned his seat as I recall, so it's his own fault that there's no way back for Worzel.
Work is under way on a warehouse “monstrosity” at least 40ft high after a blundering Tory council consulted homeowners on the wrong street.
Residents in Corby, Northamptonshire, awoke to find the large metal frame of the industrial units being erected just yards from their back doors.
Many were blindsided and when they asked officials what had happened, it emerged that the council had got the road mixed up with another half a mile away.
North Northamptonshire council’s building planning officers had mistakenly consulted people living on Hubble Road instead of Hooke Close to ask their opinions about the 160,800 sq ft development.
The plans for the Earlstree 160 project, on the site of a former Weetabix factory, were approved by the council in November with construction works expected to be completed towards the end of this year.
The height of the industrial unit will be a minimum 40ft when built, with a pitched roof which extends higher, which will be more than double the height of many two-storey surrounding houses.
The industrial unit can’t be any uglier than those hideous little rabbit hutch new-builds next door. Look at them. I think I can see @BartholomewRoberts in the bathroom of the house on the left
When did we decide as a nation that we want to feel trapped in tiny rooms with no windows? Windows are good. Britain is a shit-hole and we’ve done it to ourselves
Tiny windows is another bonus from the bonkers energy efficiency regs for new builds. Going for tiny windows is almost certainly one of the easier ways to get the thermal loss values down to the required threshold.
But I don’t see new builds in other countries which are as hideous, cramped and windowless as in Britain. Even the worst American new housing - which can be really really bad - understands that humans like and require natural light
Why is it always just us? Why are we like this?
What an odd complaint.
My new build has a big bay window that runs almost the entire width of the living room. The kitchen/diner wall to the garden is more glass than anything else, with glass double doors and large windows. And upstairs there's loads of windows.
I get much more natural light in my new build house, than I ever got in my rented old, damp accommodation.
So presumably you approve of that new build design then? Or are you just a miserable old man who doesn't want people to have a home of their own?
Anyway, the solution is the same as always: liberate planning and let people decide. If people want bigger windows, then in a free market then people can choose bigger windows and firms that build homes with small windows will struggle to sell them. Competition works.
Amazingly, I agree with you. On the whole
And it’s good that you’ve got nice big windows. I don’t actually like to think of anyone having to suffer these tiny little rat-houses with no natural light. Ugh
They genuinely depress me
I remember a friend in Sheffield being gleefully told by a local Green councillor that they were planning to block off the tiny remaining windows she had at the back of her tiny flat. Because it was good for the environment.
I just assume 'the environment' exists in the abstract.
Greens want to create ultra unhealthy homes for the sake of the environment.
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
Johnson always was an utterly despicable character. After Partygate (and Brexit) the public have tumbled his game. He is widely discredited by the voting public. He is not your answer. For that matter neither is Truss
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
What have polls got to so with it ? They assume you can somehow magically swap him back as PM.
The intensely dull and useless Bad Enoch actually beaten by Ultra Woke Leftie Sword Botherer Bad Penny.
Bad Penny > Bad Enoch.
Taylor Swift.
Only by 2 votes.
That's just noise.
In the real world the remaining tory MPs will put two candidates forward to the membership.
If they really are down to 150-200 MPs again, that might select less of a nutter than the MPs for a change.
They might also be well advised to resurrect the old Cameron idea of things like “open primaries” post election to engage with the wider public (or rather, to be seen to, and to get in the news).
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
Johnson always was an utterly despicable character. After Partygate (and Brexit) the public have tumbled his game. He is widely discredited by the voting public. He is not your answer. For that matter neither is Truss
He still makes some people smile and feel good about themselves. The people he lost are the mainstream Tories, not the workers holding up the “we love Boris” sign.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
According to this forum the only alternative is Trump. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
I don’t really follow US politics at all, but seeing this I don’t think I’d trust Biden to get the fish & chips on a Friday without forgetting what he’d gone out for.
You’d prefer Trump?
I don’t know enough about it to say either way, but surely there is a younger Democrat that could replace Biden, this looks like a piss take
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
Johnson always was an utterly despicable character. After Partygate (and Brexit) the public have tumbled his game. He is widely discredited by the voting public. He is not your answer. For that matter neither is Truss
He still makes some people smile and feel good about themselves. The people he lost are the mainstream Tories, not the workers holding up the “we love Boris” sign.
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
Johnson always was an utterly despicable character. After Partygate (and Brexit) the public have tumbled his game. He is widely discredited by the voting public. He is not your answer. For that matter neither is Truss
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
What have polls got to so with it ? They assume you can somehow magically swap him back as PM.
You’re comparing a fantasy with a reality.
The polls almost all say that 2019 Tory voters, the only people that matter in this conversation, prefer Boris to Sunak, regret that he resigned, and would be more likely to vote Conservative again next time we’re he still leader. I’m not trying to suggest that he will be, but against all this data, his haters (who’d never vote for him, Truss or Sunak, so don’t matter) insist he would be doing worse.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
It's the potential Tory voters that they need to attract. Amongst which those who already have are the likeliest candidates.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
To be fair they are about to have an influx of talent. If you’re under 30, bright, want a career in politics (god knows why), aren’t already inside Labour and lined up for office, want to be a Cabinet Minister, and have no strict principles; then you should join the Tories.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
At that level of probability, just make him PM with no seat, and announce an election three months hence, in which he will stand for a seat. The Speaker can make arrangements for him to speak if he wants.
But like you say, he won’t be back. They lost him.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
Johnson was the head from which the Conservative fish rotted. I don't want to see him either as Prime Minister or LOTO, not because I fear he is electoral catnip, but because he would be an embarrassment to my country.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
Indeed: it's almost impossible for Boris to get into Parliament as a Conservative before the next election.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
Yup. Folk who were ok with Brexit, and mostly knew what Boris was like but voted for him anyway. Not people who think like most on this site. In fact, the very people whose views most on this site (including me by the way) often have a blind spot for.
It’s a good job the death of his mother and becoming Monarch of a large country are entirely stress free in themselves, or he could be in all sorts of trouble. Damn Harry and Meghan for causing the only stress in his life.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
His actions speak for themselves. On the last two occasions he had the opportunity to prove his popularity, on the resignation of Truss and when facing a recall petition in his own constituency, he chose to walk away. He himself does not have the confidence you have in him.
I also think you are conflating members of the Tory Party with 2019 Tory voters who are very different constituencies. I am happy to be corrected but I’ve seen no convincing polling that suggests Johnson would bring back most of the lost 2019 Tory voters, however much members would love it.
It’s a good job the death of his mother and becoming Monarch of a large country are entirely stress free in themselves, or he could be in all sorts of trouble. Damn Harry and Meghan for causing the only stress in his life.
"In 2016 the Rt Rev Pete Wilcox, then dean of the cathedral, said it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. Yet he couldn’t think of a single example where somebody who had already gained British citizenship converted from Islam to Christianity"."
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
Yup. Folk who were ok with Brexit, and mostly knew what Boris was like but voted for him anyway. Not people who think like most on this site. In fact, the very people whose views most on this site (including me by the way) often have a blind spot for.
Oh, I have no doubt that Boris would do a great job of pulling back most of the Reform vote.
But I think that's still some way away from a winning total on its own. For a start, he won't have the benefit of facing Corbyn. And there's no Brexit "get it done" factor.
And people in the developed world are hurting from higher prices, higher interest rates, and wages that have lagged. Blame for that - perhaps unfairly - is going to be laid at the Conservatives door.
Boris probably ensures that the Conservative vote does not fall below 31-32%. But at the same time, he'll probably do wonders to anti-Conservative tactical voting. He'd save his party 15 to 30 seats, but I don't see him as capable of stopping a Starmer victory.
Ask people whether they’d rather have knee pain or a headache, and those who suffer from knee pain will probably choose the headache, and those who get headaches will choose the knee pain. It doesn’t mean they’ll be any the happier.
"In 2016 the Rt Rev Pete Wilcox, then dean of the cathedral, said it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. Yet he couldn’t think of a single example where somebody who had already gained British citizenship converted from Islam to Christianity"."
If one cares to peruse the census data, then the Muslim to No Religion drop off as one reaches adulthood is even greater than the Anglican/Christian to No Religion drop off.
Candidly, no one is converting to Anglicanism, except if there's a "benefit".
I find the idea of B.Johnson coming back similarly likely to D.Miliband coming back, or M.Obama becoming Potus.
No one is saying it is likely, but plenty of people who would never have voted for him can’t just be happy he has gone, they have to pretend, against almost all polling evidence, that the Tories wouldn’t be doing better than they are now were he PM
What have polls got to so with it ? They assume you can somehow magically swap him back as PM.
You’re comparing a fantasy with a reality.
The polls almost all say that 2019 Tory voters, the only people that matter in this conversation, prefer Boris to Sunak, regret that he resigned, and would be more likely to vote Conservative again next time we’re he still leader. I’m not trying to suggest that he will be, but against all this data, his haters (who’d never vote for him, Truss or Sunak, so don’t matter) insist he would be doing worse.
I’m just showing that they are wrong
Don’t be pessimistic. I reckon that Sunak will easily attract 2019 Tory voters. On a good day he may attract 2500 Tory voters.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
Yup. Folk who were ok with Brexit, and mostly knew what Boris was like but voted for him anyway. Not people who think like most on this site. In fact, the very people whose views most on this site (including me by the way) often have a blind spot for.
Oh, I have no doubt that Boris would do a great job of pulling back most of the Reform vote.
But I think that's still some way away from a winning total on its own. For a start, he won't have the benefit of facing Corbyn. And there's no Brexit "get it done" factor.
And people in the developed world are hurting from higher prices, higher interest rates, and wages that have lagged. Blame for that - perhaps unfairly - is going to be laid at the Conservatives door.
Boris probably ensures that the Conservative vote does not fall below 31-32%. But at the same time, he'll probably do wonders to anti-Conservative tactical voting. He'd save his party 15 to 30 seats, but I don't see him as capable of stopping a Starmer victory.
I could just about see him denying a Starmer majority, but not winning. 35% or so.
We are launching a Revolutionary Communist Party – a party that can represent the revolutionary aspirations of workers and youth in Britain. The ruling class and their state are fighting back, as we would expect. To fight back, we need a fighting fund!
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
His actions speak for themselves. On the last two occasions he had the opportunity to prove his popularity, on the resignation of Truss and when facing a recall petition in his own constituency, he chose to walk away. He himself does not have the confidence you have in him.
When trouble reared it's ugly head, Sir Boris bravely turned and fled Brave, brave, brave Sir Boris...
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
Yup. Folk who were ok with Brexit, and mostly knew what Boris was like but voted for him anyway. Not people who think like most on this site. In fact, the very people whose views most on this site (including me by the way) often have a blind spot for.
Oh, I have no doubt that Boris would do a great job of pulling back most of the Reform vote.
But I think that's still some way away from a winning total on its own. For a start, he won't have the benefit of facing Corbyn. And there's no Brexit "get it done" factor.
And people in the developed world are hurting from higher prices, higher interest rates, and wages that have lagged. Blame for that - perhaps unfairly - is going to be laid at the Conservatives door.
Boris probably ensures that the Conservative vote does not fall below 31-32%. But at the same time, he'll probably do wonders to anti-Conservative tactical voting. He'd save his party 15 to 30 seats, but I don't see him as capable of stopping a Starmer victory.
I could just about see him denying a Starmer majority, but not winning. 35% or so.
But anyway, it won’t happen, as you say.
Boris is a busted flush. Post partygate i could only see him getting the tories to 28 to 30 %.
We are launching a Revolutionary Communist Party – a party that can represent the revolutionary aspirations of workers and youth in Britain. The ruling class and their state are fighting back, as we would expect. To fight back, we need a fighting fund!
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
"In 2016 the Rt Rev Pete Wilcox, then dean of the cathedral, said it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. Yet he couldn’t think of a single example where somebody who had already gained British citizenship converted from Islam to Christianity"."
If one cares to peruse the census data, then the Muslim to No Religion drop off as one reaches adulthood is even greater than the Anglican/Christian to No Religion drop off.
Candidly, no one is converting to Anglicanism, except if there's a "benefit".
Hi RCS, sorry to divert the conversation but Safari Find (Command+F) does not seem to be working properly on PB.com since the server move. It used to work, it works on other websites and on vanilla (vf.politicalbetting.com) but not on the non-vanilla www1.politicalbetting.com.
Could be just be my set-up I guess but I've only noticed it since the server move.
'2,086 people who were verified by CCHQ as being Conservative party members in 2022 answered a survey that was carried out across the UK from the 29th to 31st January 2024. The survey, almost three times bigger than the Conservative Home poll carried out each month which shows the most popular members of the Cabinet, has highlighted huge discontent in parts of the party as well as identifying who the Conservative Members want as leader.
When members were asked if they would vote Conservative with the following people as leader, Boris Johnson came top with 85.37 percent followed by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg on 69.51 percent and Suella Braverman on 65.38 percent. . Only 23.63% of members said they will vote Conservative at the next General Election if Rishi Sunak remains as leader.'
This looks like the type of voter who has gone from Tory to Reform rather than the median Tory member however
If the Conservative Party were to change leader now, which of the following would you support being Prime Minister to lead us into the next General Election? (Members were asked to choose their top 3). They received the following number of votes:
Boris Johnson - 1419 Suella Braverman - 891 Jacob Rees-Mogg - 721 Penny Mordaunt - 520 Kemi Badenoch - 518 Liz Truss - 301 Priti Patel - 286 Robert Jenrick - 220 David Cameron - 100 James Cleverly - 75
What’s that bloke everyone on here says Tory voters don’t like more than any other candidate doing a distance in front?
Er, party members. Not voters in a GE.
Er, but most polls of 2019 Tory voters have him miles in front too
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
It's the non-Tory voters the Conservatives need to attract.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the 2019 Tories they need, and it’s only them they could possibly get
Yup. Folk who were ok with Brexit, and mostly knew what Boris was like but voted for him anyway. Not people who think like most on this site. In fact, the very people whose views most on this site (including me by the way) often have a blind spot for.
Oh, I have no doubt that Boris would do a great job of pulling back most of the Reform vote.
But I think that's still some way away from a winning total on its own. For a start, he won't have the benefit of facing Corbyn. And there's no Brexit "get it done" factor.
And people in the developed world are hurting from higher prices, higher interest rates, and wages that have lagged. Blame for that - perhaps unfairly - is going to be laid at the Conservatives door.
Boris probably ensures that the Conservative vote does not fall below 31-32%. But at the same time, he'll probably do wonders to anti-Conservative tactical voting. He'd save his party 15 to 30 seats, but I don't see him as capable of stopping a Starmer victory.
Two awkward echoes of Corbyn- indeed the pining for Boris on the right has a lot of similarities to those who wish Jez would return on the left.
First is that, yes, they both enthused a lot of love, including from people who aren't normally supporters of their parties. But they also put off both centrists and centrist-curious members of their parties. Both Boris and Jeremy provoked people into actively voting against them, which is usually quite an achievement.
The 2019 triumph on the right happened because the Conservatives managed to unite Boris loyalists with Boris haters who hated Corbyn even more. Once the second group started to drift off, the Conservatives were in trouble. (And the Conservative poll rating has been falling fairly steadily since spring 2020, albeit with a hefty vaccine bump in the first half of 2021.)
Second, and much more important, is that the fans of both Boris and Jeremy point to their triumphs, but they were in the past. Corbyn pulled off a remarkable result (albeit losing) in 2017 and Johnson did in 2019. But subsequent events made them less popular. Jez never recovered from his apparent equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings or the growing accusations of being at least antisemitism-adjacent. Boris's image was never going to recover from the triple of the Partygate lies, the Paterson scandal and Pinchergate.
In both cases, they made the flaw we all suspected about them (that Corbyn is a dim reflexive supporter of unsavoury leftism, that Johnson doesn't tell the truth except by accident) impossible to avoid.
Yes, the Conservatives have paid a price for ditching Johnson. But that cheque was written the day they elevated him. The only question was when the devil or the electorate would cash it in.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
SIR Jacob Rees-Mogg?? When did that helmet get knighted?
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
Difficultvto do when vompanies receive investment depending on how woke they are. The power of the likes of blackrock.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
I can't think of any reason why the selection of leader should return to parliamentarians, other than that parliamentarians think they're more important than everyone else.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
Difficultvto do when vompanies receive investment depending on how woke they are. The power of the likes of blackrock.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
I can't think of any reason why the selection of leader should return to parliamentarians, other than that parliamentarians think they're more important than everyone else.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
I can't think of any reason why the selection of leader should return to parliamentarians, other than that parliamentarians think they're more important than everyone else.
Quite. It's a remarkable phrase in its pungent reek of entitlement, and complete lack of self-awareness.
"In 2016 the Rt Rev Pete Wilcox, then dean of the cathedral, said it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. Yet he couldn’t think of a single example where somebody who had already gained British citizenship converted from Islam to Christianity"."
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
Difficultvto do when vompanies receive investment depending on how woke they are. The power of the likes of blackrock.
Hence why it needs to start now.
Lol, the 'Woke Conspiracy'. Delivered by those noted lefties, er... BlackRock.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
I can't think of any reason why the selection of leader should return to parliamentarians, other than that parliamentarians think they're more important than everyone else.
Quite. It's a remarkable phrase in its pungent reek of entitlement, and complete lack of self-awareness.
It's called parliamentary democracy. If you don't like it campaign for a change to our constitution.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
Difficultvto do when vompanies receive investment depending on how woke they are. The power of the likes of blackrock.
Hence why it needs to start now.
Lol, the 'Woke Conspiracy'. Delivered by those noted lefties, er... BlackRock.
Blackrock is one of the biggest funders of esg investing. Do your research.
As an aside, that is an excellent result for Johnson: and I think he would do a better job than Sunak at motivating a lot of 2019 Conservative voters. In particular, I think he'd get back much of the Reform vote, with only limited losses to the Yellow Peril in the South East.
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
Yes, they made a monumental error in forcing Boris out, and are paying for it now. It would probably be better for them to get rid of Sunak and have the MP for the safest Tory seat stand aside for Johnson so he can take over before the GE, but that must be about a 50/1 shot, probably bigger
His actions speak for themselves. On the last two occasions he had the opportunity to prove his popularity, on the resignation of Truss and when facing a recall petition in his own constituency, he chose to walk away. He himself does not have the confidence you have in him.
I also think you are conflating members of the Tory Party with 2019 Tory voters who are very different constituencies. I am happy to be corrected but I’ve seen no convincing polling that suggests Johnson would bring back most of the lost 2019 Tory voters, however much members would love it.
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Yes, quite right, how dare these upstarts disturb our door-knockers and leaflet-deliverers with all this talk of 'democracy' and 'low taxes' and a 'small state', it's disgusting. Bad enough we have to pretend we like these people during jumble sales and fetes, without them being encouraged to think they can actually set the party's agenda!
No. The issue with today’s launch was the complete absence of new ideas. Recycled woke bashing, which is in itself recycled “political correctness gone mad” and the tired “silent majority/shy Tory” tripe resurrected after 30 years. It was transparently an attempt to curry favour for opposition leadership roles, preaching to the converted, rather than a serious attempt to win a general election.
Conservatism needs a credo that aims to supplant and replace the woke/pc ideology, rather than just complain about the negative externalities of those things. If your opponents are changing things, and you're complaining about it, you're losing. But that does not in any way invalidate the arguments against woke/pc, which are as valid now as they ever were.
Difficultvto do when vompanies receive investment depending on how woke they are. The power of the likes of blackrock.
Hence why it needs to start now.
Lol, the 'Woke Conspiracy'. Delivered by those noted lefties, er... BlackRock.
Blackrock is one of the biggest funders of esg investing. Do your research.
Because that's what its investors want.
Btw where do you stand on the scandal of those BA pilots and the covid vaccine?
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP. "What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message." In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
I can't think of any reason why the selection of leader should return to parliamentarians, other than that parliamentarians think they're more important than everyone else.
Quite. It's a remarkable phrase in its pungent reek of entitlement, and complete lack of self-awareness.
It's called parliamentary democracy. If you don't like it campaign for a change to our constitution.
Where is it written into the stone tablets of parliamentary democracy that a party leader must be elected solely by its MPs? I think a far better system would be for MPs to elect a shortlist of 3 or more to send to members. Most of the more questionable leadership choices have been caused by better candidates being held back from the membership round.
We are launching a Revolutionary Communist Party – a party that can represent the revolutionary aspirations of workers and youth in Britain. The ruling class and their state are fighting back, as we would expect. To fight back, we need a fighting fund!
Comments
Are the “secret” Conservatives the same as the “popular” Conservatives because it’s hard being secret and popular unless you are also delusional
It's a dismal prospect isn't it?
doing a distance in front?
Bad Penny > Bad Enoch.
Taylor Swift.
But people who are definitely not voting Conservative anyway prefer other Tories to him
East Ham.
More Coldplay v. Right Said Fred.
kindly refer to him as A Johnson.
That's just noise.
In the real world the remaining tory MPs will put two candidates forward to the membership.
They assume you can somehow magically swap him back as PM.
You’re comparing a fantasy with a reality.
They might also be well advised to resurrect the old Cameron idea of things like “open primaries” post election to engage with the wider public (or rather, to be seen to, and to get in the news).
However, there's no obvious way for Johnson to regain the Throne. He needs a by-election, in a safe Conservative seat, and then he needs to win it. And then he needs both a vote of no confidence, and a leadership contest.
And, of course, Mr Sunak has no great interest in Johnson returning to Parliament, so getting selected to contest, and then winning that byelection is going to be non-trivial. Candidly, it might be easier for Johnson to get in on a Reform ticket and then "rat" or take over.
But that is also far from easy, because in a situation where the right wing vote is meaningfully split, then there's a high chance of a LibDem or Labour victory.
Which leaves the Conservative Party with a bit of a problem, notably that pretty much all the Sunak alternatives in the House would rather become Leader of the Opposition.
T…
I’m just showing that they are wrong
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-rishi-sunak-general-election-keir-starmer-12593360?postid=7191818#liveblog-body
Shortly after Liz Truss and co took to the stage to launch the new Popular Conservatism - or "PopCon" - movement, pitching itself as an anti-woke, anti-green, anti-elite, anti-immigration voice of the voter, my phone buzzed with a message from a very disgruntled MP.
"What everyone is privately thinking is that the rules must change on selection of the party leader," said the former minister. "But no-one will initiate, so our party drifts to the right.
"The selection of leader must return to parliamentarians, so that these subtribes won't schmooze our base with their populist message."
In the hall in Westminster, where Ms Truss led the PopCon rally, other MPs such as Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg professed their loyalty to the ex-PM, insisting this was about the battle for ideas and taking power back from elites - in this case Davos man or Supreme Court judges - and giving it back to the people.
But for many of his colleagues, these groups are only serving to push away some of their most centrist voters, making the party look more divided and leaving Rishi Sunak looking weak.
And it won't have gone unnoticed with many of you that there is a certain irony that the most unpopular prime minister of modern times, Ms Truss, is now reinventing herself as the leader of the Popular Conservatives after bombing with the vast majority of the voters in her time as leader, according to polls
Particularly insufficient popcorn supplies!
Don’t miss it. It is moving and morally complex. Just superbly done.
But like you say, he won’t be back. They lost him.
"Could the stress of having to sort out the Prince Harry situation over the last two years have contributed to his illness?'
Mike Parry asks whether Prince Harry and Meghan have had a role to play in King Charles' illness in terms of causing stress.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1754882236216758469?t=4JTagqt1MUa86W77LABGJw&s=19
I also think you are conflating members of the Tory Party with 2019 Tory voters who are very different constituencies. I am happy to be corrected but I’ve seen no convincing polling that suggests Johnson would bring back most of the lost 2019 Tory voters, however much members would love it.
@GoodwinMJ
"In 2016 the Rt Rev Pete Wilcox, then dean of the cathedral, said it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. Yet he couldn’t think of a single example where somebody who had already gained British citizenship converted from Islam to Christianity"."
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1754985317482840137
But I think that's still some way away from a winning total on its own. For a start, he won't have the benefit of facing Corbyn. And there's no Brexit "get it done" factor.
And people in the developed world are hurting from higher prices, higher interest rates, and wages that have lagged. Blame for that - perhaps unfairly - is going to be laid at the Conservatives door.
Boris probably ensures that the Conservative vote does not fall below 31-32%. But at the same time, he'll probably do wonders to anti-Conservative tactical voting. He'd save his party 15 to 30 seats, but I don't see him as capable of stopping a Starmer victory.
Candidly, no one is converting to Anglicanism, except if there's a "benefit".
But anyway, it won’t happen, as you say.
The Communist ☭
@revcommunists
We are launching a Revolutionary Communist Party – a party that can represent the revolutionary aspirations of workers and youth in Britain. The ruling class and their state are fighting back, as we would expect. To fight back, we need a fighting fund!
https://twitter.com/revcommunists/status/1754558003955503267
Sir Boris bravely turned and fled
Brave, brave, brave Sir Boris...
Could be just be my set-up I guess but I've only noticed it since the server move.
Minor issue in the great scheme of things.
First is that, yes, they both enthused a lot of love, including from people who aren't normally supporters of their parties. But they also put off both centrists and centrist-curious members of their parties. Both Boris and Jeremy provoked people into actively voting against them, which is usually quite an achievement.
The 2019 triumph on the right happened because the Conservatives managed to unite Boris loyalists with Boris haters who hated Corbyn even more. Once the second group started to drift off, the Conservatives were in trouble. (And the Conservative poll rating has been falling fairly steadily since spring 2020, albeit with a hefty vaccine bump in the first half of 2021.)
Second, and much more important, is that the fans of both Boris and Jeremy point to their triumphs, but they were in the past. Corbyn pulled off a remarkable result (albeit losing) in 2017 and Johnson did in 2019. But subsequent events made them less popular. Jez never recovered from his apparent equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings or the growing accusations of being at least antisemitism-adjacent. Boris's image was never going to recover from the triple of the Partygate lies, the Paterson scandal and Pinchergate.
In both cases, they made the flaw we all suspected about them (that Corbyn is a dim reflexive supporter of unsavoury leftism, that Johnson doesn't tell the truth except by accident) impossible to avoid.
Yes, the Conservatives have paid a price for ditching Johnson. But that cheque was written the day they elevated him. The only question was when the devil or the electorate would cash it in.
Again.
Why do you follow this prat around like a lovesick puppy?
https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1584119990483308546?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1584117472927821824?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1584112447602188289?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/1483142184455090180?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sunak-tories-poll-b2360140.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/getting-rid-of-rishi-sunak-wont-save-the-tories-poll-says-b9sptfxb6
Btw where do you stand on the scandal of those BA pilots and the covid vaccine?