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Ken Clarke is dead right on the Rwanda bill – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    I thought the masked terrori..sorry…brave undercover special forces guy carrying a wheelchair along with his silenced AR was a nice touch.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953
    edited January 30

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    From his twitter he looks a supremely unbiased source of news.


    Not.
    Aside from playing the man rather than the ball, are you disputing his account of what happened, the IDF's account, or the text of the Geneva Convention?
    I think you know, but clearly suggesting his account of events may not be the whole truth.
    It is all over the news, following the IDF's account. His spin is the Geneva Convention but the realpolitik is that Bibi, like Vladimir, will not end up in The Hague.
    Isn't using a hospital as a military base a teensy weensy bit un-Geneva Conventiony also.

    I mean two wrongs and all that but it seems they got the job at hand done.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Sandpit said:

    I see Michelle Obama is down to 9/1 for the Democratic nomination.

    Just what on earth are people smoking?

    Biden has a Bob Dole moment and it flows from there.
    What's not clear to me is why it flows to Michelle Obama and not his perfectly adequate Vice President. Or if you have a way for it to flow around Kamala Harris, why it doesn't instead flow to some other famous American non-politician like Oprah Winfrey or Taylor Swift.
    Swift won't be 35 until after the election, but before the inauguration, so does that mean she's eligible?

    She'd clearly be a great president, but there would be concerns the work would get in the way of her music.
    Pretty sure it's the inauguration.
    Yes, Inauguration Day. Same applies to AOC who’s almost exactly the same age as Miss Swift.
    Technically, she should be eligible to stand even if below the qualifying age at inauguration. Section 3 of the 20th Amendment deals explicitly with that scenario. Likewise, several Congressmen have been elected under-age and simply had to wait until they qualified before taking the Oath; they weren't disbarred.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    There's already been a good travel story of the Stans written, which is

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sovietistan-Turkmenistan-Kazakhstan-Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan/dp/0857057774

    and worth a read.

    I spent a couple of weeks in Kyrgyzstan about 12 years ago, which was an interesting and enjoyable holiday (also about 3 days in Kazakhstan, as I went there by train - very flat).

    I was on a (personal) guided tour, which helped with the travel, meals, bookings and so on. In some ways it's like a much wilder version of Switzerland. Phenomenal scenery, iffy politics, shepherds up mountains, lakeside towns, the world mostly passing it by. In other ways, less so. It's a semi-dry country, alcohol-wise (they brew some weird thing out of milk but I was suffering altitude sickness at the time after spending a night in a yurt above 3000m, so gave it a pass). As the Stans go, it's the most liberal still, though that also makes it the least safe but generally not dangerously so other than in identifiable areas of e.g. Bishkek.
    Simon Reeve did a couple of shows a few years back called "Meet the Stans", he went to 4 of them. One of them at the time was deemed too risky,

    Although over a decade old may be interesting for @Leon if he can find them on IPLAYER
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    If Rwanda is a safe country why does the UK accept its refugees?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    I thought the masked terrori..sorry…brave undercover special forces guy carrying a wheelchair along with his silenced AR was a nice touch.
    Justice for those Hamas terrorists (© MSN) just visiting their aunt in hospital. What about a march.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    Is he gearing up for a return?

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1752280339462885744

    The population crisis is rapidly getting worse and damaging the quality of life for everyone. Uncontrolled immigration is happening despite the Brexit vote. Our political leaders deserve to be punished at the ballot box.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 30
    On the question of 'net zero" immigration mentioned earlier, if this was applied tomorrow, both the economy and public services would begin to collapse, over a timeframe of several months.

    The Tories knew Brexit would result in even higher immigration, contrary to what people voted for, but they went ahead, for ideological reasons.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873

    Dictatorships tend not to go with the elected bit, unless they've rigged it. Which is why Trump was trying to avoid the transfer of power on January 6th after he lost.

    We have an election this year, where Ken and everyone else can register their displeasure at the supposed "dictatorship".

    And then he can moan about Elected Dictatorship by Woke.

    Elective dictatorship was conceptualised and warned against by long-serving Conservative Lord Chancellor, Lord Hailsham. It means the elected government can and does ignore the normal checks and balances. It means the government can act as if it were a dictatorship, not that it literally is one.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_dictatorship
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited January 30

    I see Michelle Obama is down to 9/1 for the Democratic nomination.

    Just what on earth are people smoking?

    Biden has a Bob Dole moment and it flows from there.
    What's not clear to me is why it flows to Michelle Obama and not his perfectly adequate Vice President. Or if you have a way for it to flow around Kamala Harris, why it doesn't instead flow to some other famous American non-politician like Oprah Winfrey or Taylor Swift.
    Swift won't be 35 until after the election, but before the inauguration, so does that mean she's eligible?

    She'd clearly be a great president, but there would be concerns the work would get in the way of her music.
    She’s used to a high workload, and is still young, I’m sure she’ll manage to shake it off.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396

    If Rwanda is a safe country why does the UK accept its refugees?

    No reason not too - we accept lots of refugees from France too - all those crossing in small boats to leave persecution by the cheese eating surrender monkeys!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Is he gearing up for a return?

    No. He can't be arsed.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873
    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    From his twitter he looks a supremely unbiased source of news.


    Not.
    Aside from playing the man rather than the ball, are you disputing his account of what happened, the IDF's account, or the text of the Geneva Convention?
    I think you know, but clearly suggesting his account of events may not be the whole truth.
    It is all over the news, following the IDF's account. His spin is the Geneva Convention but the realpolitik is that Bibi, like Vladimir, will not end up in The Hague.
    Isn't using a hospital as a military base a teensy weensy bit un-Geneva Conventiony also.

    I mean two wrongs and all that but it seems they got the job at hand done.
    Follow that whataboutery too far and you will be comparing the state of Israel to a terrorist organisation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    Not that surprising a remark given Lord Clarke is basically a LD in all but name now anyway
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    There's already been a good travel story of the Stans written, which is

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sovietistan-Turkmenistan-Kazakhstan-Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan/dp/0857057774

    and worth a read.

    I spent a couple of weeks in Kyrgyzstan about 12 years ago, which was an interesting and enjoyable holiday (also about 3 days in Kazakhstan, as I went there by train - very flat).

    I was on a (personal) guided tour, which helped with the travel, meals, bookings and so on. In some ways it's like a much wilder version of Switzerland. Phenomenal scenery, iffy politics, shepherds up mountains, lakeside towns, the world mostly passing it by. In other ways, less so. It's a semi-dry country, alcohol-wise (they brew some weird thing out of milk but I was suffering altitude sickness at the time after spending a night in a yurt above 3000m, so gave it a pass). As the Stans go, it's the most liberal still, though that also makes it the least safe but generally not dangerously so other than in identifiable areas of e.g. Bishkek.
    V useful ta

    You’re talking about Kyrgyz, right?

    That is the one that most intrigues me, alongside Uzbek (coz of the high speed trains and Samarkand etc)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108

    I see Michelle Obama is down to 9/1 for the Democratic nomination.

    Just what on earth are people smoking?

    I sense the frustration of someone who's shorted her! Me, I backed her at 3 digits and it looks like I laid her back a bit too early. Stake only though. She's still my best result. Don't suppose it will happen. More a movie script than real life. My worst result is Trump. That would be painful. We're talking £££. Every other outcome (bar JFK, Tucker Carlson and Kanye West) is shades of green.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    Carnyx said:

    Alliance leader Naomi Long on the DUP deal: “There is nothing in the deal that wasn't available in 2018 under Theresa May.”

    The DUP are the biggest cucks in UK politics.

    I know some get exercised by Starmer’s lies but nothing will ever top Boris Johnson going to the DUP conference and telling them no UK PM could put a border in the Irish Sea then won an election and put a border in the Irish Sea.
    What worries me is the Tories on PB and elsewhere presenting a deal with the DUP as a HUUUUUUGE ACHIEVEMENT.

    We've been there before, as indeed you show.
    The new green lane agreed with the EU ensures no checks on goods between GB and NI so that is what persuaded the DUP to accept this deal
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    From his twitter he looks a supremely unbiased source of news.


    Not.
    Aside from playing the man rather than the ball, are you disputing his account of what happened, the IDF's account, or the text of the Geneva Convention?
    I think you know, but clearly suggesting his account of events may not be the whole truth.
    It is all over the news, following the IDF's account. His spin is the Geneva Convention but the realpolitik is that Bibi, like Vladimir, will not end up in The Hague.
    Isn't using a hospital as a military base a teensy weensy bit un-Geneva Conventiony also.

    I mean two wrongs and all that but it seems they got the job at hand done.
    Follow that whataboutery too far and you will be comparing the state of Israel to a terrorist organisation.
    Yeah I hear you. When does the clock start. You pays your money and makes your choice.

    I appreciate PB's overwhelming sympathy for those Hamas folk in that hospital. No chance of getting their piles removed now.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    From his twitter he looks a supremely unbiased source of news.


    Not.
    Aside from playing the man rather than the ball, are you disputing his account of what happened, the IDF's account, or the text of the Geneva Convention?
    I think you know, but clearly suggesting his account of events may not be the whole truth.
    It is all over the news, following the IDF's account. His spin is the Geneva Convention but the realpolitik is that Bibi, like Vladimir, will not end up in The Hague.
    Isn't using a hospital as a military base a teensy weensy bit un-Geneva Conventiony also.

    I mean two wrongs and all that but it seems they got the job at hand done.
    Follow that whataboutery too far and you will be comparing the state of Israel to a terrorist organisation.
    Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It's also the government of Gaza. The Geneva Convention therefore applies to it, as to other state-to-state combatants.

    (Gaza isn't a state as such; it's a rogue province of an entity which itself is of dubious statehood. All the same, it's effecting the role of a government, unchallenged internally. As such, the obligations on governments under international law apply).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408

    I see Michelle Obama is down to 9/1 for the Democratic nomination.

    Just what on earth are people smoking?

    Biden has a Bob Dole moment and it flows from there.
    He's had plenty and even if he has a massive one I don't see how it ends up with Michelle Obama.

    That's just a fantasy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is he gearing up for a return?

    No. He can't be arsed.
    Yes, I agree on that. One thing about Nigel is that he is the Bon viveur type, quite self consciously so. Not one of nature’s hard workers

    I suspect this is one reason he never made it as MP, didn’t really want it. MEP is much easier, do 30 minutes a week and collect your ample expenses, no one is any the wiser

    He is politically astute. He sees the OPPORTUNITY for a firmly right wing revival, but he is too old, rich and well-set to actually put in the hard yakka
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,243

    If Rwanda is a safe country why does the UK accept its refugees?

    No reason not too - we accept lots of refugees from France too - all those crossing in small boats to leave persecution by the cheese eating surrender monkeys!
    1) according to various aid agencies, it is intolerable that refugees should be forced to remain in France.
    2) France has nuclear ambitions (realised)
    3) France has oil

    Hmmm

    1) means that France is a failed state.
    2) & 3) plus “Failed State” = well, we all know what that means it’s time for, don’t we, children?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    edited January 30

    If Rwanda is a safe country why does the UK accept its refugees?

    No reason not too - we accept lots of refugees from France too - all those crossing in small boats to leave persecution by the cheese eating surrender monkeys!
    1) according to various aid agencies, it is intolerable that refugees should be forced to remain in France.
    2) France has nuclear ambitions (realised)
    3) France has oil

    Hmmm

    1) means that France is a failed state.
    2) & 3) plus “Failed State” = well, we all know what that means it’s time for, don’t we, children?
    Its 1944 all over again? Or are we going back to the great Henrys? Who will be our Black Prince (surely Prince of Colour now?)
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    There's already been a good travel story of the Stans written, which is

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sovietistan-Turkmenistan-Kazakhstan-Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan/dp/0857057774

    and worth a read.

    I spent a couple of weeks in Kyrgyzstan about 12 years ago, which was an interesting and enjoyable holiday (also about 3 days in Kazakhstan, as I went there by train - very flat).

    I was on a (personal) guided tour, which helped with the travel, meals, bookings and so on. In some ways it's like a much wilder version of Switzerland. Phenomenal scenery, iffy politics, shepherds up mountains, lakeside towns, the world mostly passing it by. In other ways, less so. It's a semi-dry country, alcohol-wise (they brew some weird thing out of milk but I was suffering altitude sickness at the time after spending a night in a yurt above 3000m, so gave it a pass). As the Stans go, it's the most liberal still, though that also makes it the least safe but generally not dangerously so other than in identifiable areas of e.g. Bishkek.
    V useful ta

    You’re talking about Kyrgyz, right?

    That is the one that most intrigues me, alongside Uzbek (coz of the high speed trains and Samarkand etc)
    I just popped on the first Meet the Stans episode, set in Kazakhstan. The first place they visit is a former Soviety biological research station which looks like an inner city school in some godforsaken part of Sunderland or Middlesbrough where they keep the Plague and Anthrax in vials in fridges.

    During the film a Guinea Pig ends up being infected with one of them for the purposes of research. Not a good ending for the Guinea Pig either.
  • Terry and June in Central Asia.

    Only on PB.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Sandpit said:

    I see Michelle Obama is down to 9/1 for the Democratic nomination.

    Just what on earth are people smoking?

    Biden has a Bob Dole moment and it flows from there.
    What's not clear to me is why it flows to Michelle Obama and not his perfectly adequate Vice President. Or if you have a way for it to flow around Kamala Harris, why it doesn't instead flow to some other famous American non-politician like Oprah Winfrey or Taylor Swift.
    Swift won't be 35 until after the election, but before the inauguration, so does that mean she's eligible?

    She'd clearly be a great president, but there would be concerns the work would get in the way of her music.
    She’s used to a high workload, and is still young, I’m sure she’ll manage to shake it off.
    If there's a blank space, she'd write her name?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,243

    If Rwanda is a safe country why does the UK accept its refugees?

    No reason not too - we accept lots of refugees from France too - all those crossing in small boats to leave persecution by the cheese eating surrender monkeys!
    1) according to various aid agencies, it is intolerable that refugees should be forced to remain in France.
    2) France has nuclear ambitions (realised)
    3) France has oil

    Hmmm

    1) means that France is a failed state.
    2) & 3) plus “Failed State” = well, we all know what that means it’s time for, don’t we, children?
    Its 1944 all over again? Or are we going back to the great Henrys? Who will be our Black Prince (surely Prince of Colour now?)
    #TreatyOfTroyesOneStateSolution
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 30
    O/T but gorgeous photo report on the renovation of Rochdale town hall - not just for @RochdalePioneers , tthere's an organ as well,

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2024/jan/30/the-20m-renovation-of-rochdale-town-hall-in-pictures
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Terry and June in Central Asia.

    Only on PB.

    I think that was the 1986 Christmas Special.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,345

    As I said last night, Ken Clarke is the greatest PM we never had.

    And

    One of the reasons I am a Thatcherite is this quote from the Iron Lady.

    ‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

    That Thatcher quote is bollocks, just a rehash of Hayekian dislike of democracy. We had the rule of law for a long time before most people enjoyed liberties of any description. It is entirely possible for a legal system to oversee tyranny and oppression, as for instance in the case of the Atlantic slave trade. I have some respect for the second sentence in the quotation, less for the first.
    The rule of law has *something* to do with the growth of liberty. It's preferable to arbitrary government, but as you say, it can be instrument of tyranny.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    As I said last night, Ken Clarke is the greatest PM we never had.

    And

    One of the reasons I am a Thatcherite is this quote from the Iron Lady.

    ‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

    That Thatcher quote is bollocks, just a rehash of Hayekian dislike of democracy. We had the rule of law for a long time before most people enjoyed liberties of any description. It is entirely possible for a legal system to oversee tyranny and oppression, as for instance in the case of the Atlantic slave trade. I have some respect for the second sentence in the quotation, less for the first.
    And there are plenty of democracies without individual liberties that we take for granted too. Neither democracy nor rule of law is sufficient alone and it would be hard to choose one over the other without further context.
    Yes both need to be present. I have a strong sense that democracy is the more important of the two, even for the protection of the rights of minorities. But perhaps that reflects a British-centric viewpoint, living in a country that has had the rule of law a lot longer than it has had democracy.
    I think that if you have the rule of law that, eventually, democracy becomes inevitable. But, if you do not have the rule of law, then democracy is pointless.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,345
    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    Who were the three people who were shot? Random civilians, or fighters?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108
    edited January 30
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Ukrainians in UK shocked by shortage of dentists, survey finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/30/ukrainians-uk-shocked-shortage-dentists-survey

    Bloody Ukrainians, coming here, nicking our dentists and freelance language teachers.

    It'ds not just the Ukrainians who are shocked!

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/30/pliers-abscesses-and-agonising-pain-britains-dental-crisis-as-seen-from-ae

    'Danny Smith, 43, says he dreams about pulling his teeth out. He has researched dental pliers online, desperate to put an end to the pain he has as a consequence of his lupus: jaw aches, teeth grinding and chronic mouth ulcers from the steroids he is prescribed. Smith’s NHS dentist removed him from their lists during the pandemic “because I hadn’t been for two years”, despite the lockdowns making that impossible. There are no other dentists accepting NHS patients where he lives. He can’t afford to go private – he’s is unable to work due to ill health – and so he is left to his own devices, using painkillers mostly. He filled some cavities himself using a compound he found on Amazon.'
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,345

    The truth is our current economic and social infrastructure would probably fall over without large immigration each and every year. The Tories, and Labour to be fair, would obviously do something about it if there were an answer - electorally it's a big problem.

    The question is: why this wasn't the case in the 1990s - were the demographics simply much more favourable? - and how do we spend over the 10-20 years so it becomes no longer necessary through structural reform?

    In the meantime, immigration is more carefully controlled - and university "students" need clamping down on, and HMG will have to step in to fund those universities more so they are not as reliant on them.

    It's something that has me scratching my head. When immigration was much lower, economic growth was much higher.

    Is our economy managed so badly, that high immigration is needed just to stop the economy from collapsing, and if so, what changed over the course of 30 years?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and I recognize all of this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Surely the test for Leon is if he can stick to one small glass of red wine a day he'll get the benefit, and be in control. I doubt he'll manage it though.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    edited January 30
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    There's already been a good travel story of the Stans written, which is

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sovietistan-Turkmenistan-Kazakhstan-Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan/dp/0857057774

    and worth a read.

    I spent a couple of weeks in Kyrgyzstan about 12 years ago, which was an interesting and enjoyable holiday (also about 3 days in Kazakhstan, as I went there by train - very flat).

    I was on a (personal) guided tour, which helped with the travel, meals, bookings and so on. In some ways it's like a much wilder version of Switzerland. Phenomenal scenery, iffy politics, shepherds up mountains, lakeside towns, the world mostly passing it by. In other ways, less so. It's a semi-dry country, alcohol-wise (they brew some weird thing out of milk but I was suffering altitude sickness at the time after spending a night in a yurt above 3000m, so gave it a pass). As the Stans go, it's the most liberal still, though that also makes it the least safe but generally not dangerously so other than in identifiable areas of e.g. Bishkek.
    V useful ta

    You’re talking about Kyrgyz, right?

    That is the one that most intrigues me, alongside Uzbek (coz of the high speed trains and Samarkand etc)
    I am yes. Like I say though, this was 12 years ago. I don't think all that much has changed, though the security situation in the south was questionable at the time (not that I was going there anyway). Bishkek was relatively cosmopolitan: enough to be able to get round by myself, including ordering food and so on.

    Driving standards are awful but that's to be expected.

    It was a very low-speed train I went on - just over 3 days from Moscow, arriving at just gone 2am. The most interesting bit was being turfed off at the Kazakh-Kyrgyz border and trying to explain why my visas overlapped (in case the train was late, actually) to someone who spoke no English while I didn't speak the local language or any more than the most basic tourist Russian.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 30

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    ITV3 shows a lot of the Sid James' vehicle, Bless This House, and you can see he actualy had quite an impressive range, but perhaps a bit underused as an actor, like Kenneth Williams. Some of it actually very funny.

    Never The Twain with Windsor Davies and Donald Sinden, more moderately so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Carnyx said:

    O/T but gorgeous photo report on the renovation of Rochdale town hall - not just for @RochdalePioneers , tthere's an organ as well,

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2024/jan/30/the-20m-renovation-of-rochdale-town-hall-in-pictures

    J.J.Binns, no less.

    Pipe organs are the closest thing I know to steam engines in inspiring male devotion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Carnyx said:

    O/T but gorgeous photo report on the renovation of Rochdale town hall - not just for @RochdalePioneers , tthere's an organ as well,

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2024/jan/30/the-20m-renovation-of-rochdale-town-hall-in-pictures

    Wow, I am not normally a fan of neogothic but this is fantastic.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    Talking Pictures regularly shows such ‘gems’, at the moment they are showing ‘Take a Letter Mr Jones’ and ‘That Beryl Marston’. Clunkers.

    Network, before they ceased trading, used to release shows like Lucky Feller.

    Always good to see these and they serve as a reminder to people who think TV was brilliant back then that it had its share of duds.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited January 30

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    You are obviously of the Ian Hislop stripe - BBC household :smile: .

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873
    Carnyx said:

    Ukrainians in UK shocked by shortage of dentists, survey finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/30/ukrainians-uk-shocked-shortage-dentists-survey

    Bloody Ukrainians, coming here, nicking our dentists and freelance language teachers.

    It'ds not just the Ukrainians who are shocked!

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/30/pliers-abscesses-and-agonising-pain-britains-dental-crisis-as-seen-from-ae

    'Danny Smith, 43, says he dreams about pulling his teeth out. He has researched dental pliers online, desperate to put an end to the pain he has as a consequence of his lupus: jaw aches, teeth grinding and chronic mouth ulcers from the steroids he is prescribed. Smith’s NHS dentist removed him from their lists during the pandemic “because I hadn’t been for two years”, despite the lockdowns making that impossible. There are no other dentists accepting NHS patients where he lives. He can’t afford to go private – he’s is unable to work due to ill health – and so he is left to his own devices, using painkillers mostly. He filled some cavities himself using a compound he found on Amazon.'
    We need urgently to train more dentists, and revise the NHS dentistry ratecard so it actually covers most treatments. My crown last year cost the best part of £1,000 all in, and a lot of punters (even some on pb) simply cannot afford that, even assuming they live anywhere near a dentist.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    edited January 30

    Sandpit said:

    I am not Ken Clarke's biggest fan (nothing personal against him, just strongly disagree with his politics) but largely I agree with him here on the Rwanda - yes asylum applications probably should be processed outside of destination, but the choice of Rwanda is puzzling. My guess is it was a 'quick fix' because Rwanda already had some sort of asylum industry set up and other countries did not? I am also puzzled that they cannot come back from Rwanda. It seems fairly simple and fair to me to bring back successful applicants on the planes that the others went out on (preferably far lighter on the return trip). It would still massively deter bogus claimants (providing the system was rigorous), and would mean Rwanda wouldn't 'fill up'.

    My conclusion is a bit different though - I think the policy should at least be tried to see if it works.

    As discussed on the previous thread, perhaps the idea should be for Western countries to get together and buy cheap one of those empty Chinese cities that their banks don’t want to totally write off, and operate it as a massive free zone under some form of agreed Western law?
    So we get a Uyghur refugee from China, give them asylum, and then send them off to China? And pay China an enormous wedge for this? Better than Labour, as they have no plan......
    Q. What do the Chinese use to commune with the dead?

    A. Uighur Board!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    Talking Pictures regularly shows such ‘gems’, at the moment they are showing ‘Take a Letter Mr Jones’ and ‘That Beryl Marston’. Clunkers.

    Network, before they ceased trading, used to release shows like Lucky Feller.

    Always good to see these and they serve as a reminder to people who think TV was brilliant back then that it had its share of duds.
    Yes - the classics are very much the top 5% or so. A quick google took me to the list on Wiki of all the British sit coms of the 70's. Some rum stuff in there indeed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Is he gearing up for a return?

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1752280339462885744

    The population crisis is rapidly getting worse and damaging the quality of life for everyone. Uncontrolled immigration is happening despite the Brexit vote. Our political leaders deserve to be punished at the ballot box.

    Of course he is.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    You are obviously of the Ian Hislop stripe - BBC household.

    Guilty as charged, your honour. Cannot stand Ant and Dec or anything they are in...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and I recognize all of this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Surely the test for Leon is if he can stick to one small glass of red wine a day he'll get the benefit, and be in control. I doubt he'll manage it though.
    Yes that would be tough. That just wets the appetite and leaves it wanting more. I'd say drinking nothing one day then a decent amount the next is better than doing that.

    Tip from me - I drink red wine out of a sherry glass. That way you can have 3 glasses but it's actually less than 2. And a bottle lasts 3 to 4 days. This is moderate drinking but it kind of feels like you're 'on it' every evening. Best of both worlds.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited January 30
    Rwanda policy should have been quietly ditched when Braverman left but Sunak has not the political awareness to have veered away from it

    On Rwanda itself there is an irony that Arsenal promote 'Visit Rwanda' on their shirts and stadium

    On a personal note the hospital has done my pre assessment interview with me and confirmed the pacemaker operation for Tuesday 6th February which is a relief with so many procedures being postponed or cancelled
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    For me I also use the device:

    Bad/moderate/uninteresting food: no alcohol
    Good food: alcohol

    Is this denying myself good food because I don't want to be tempted to drink? Perhaps. But it works and makes me not miss drinking. Plus only drink good wine with the good food.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815

    As I said last night, Ken Clarke is the greatest PM we never had.

    And

    One of the reasons I am a Thatcherite is this quote from the Iron Lady.

    ‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

    That Thatcher quote is bollocks, just a rehash of Hayekian dislike of democracy. We had the rule of law for a long time before most people enjoyed liberties of any description. It is entirely possible for a legal system to oversee tyranny and oppression, as for instance in the case of the Atlantic slave trade. I have some respect for the second sentence in the quotation, less for the first.
    ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

    - Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    edited January 30
    i really couldn’t give a fuck if the IDF are going into hospitals and slotting Hamas fighters. It’s a war, to the end, and both sides want it - as polls show. Meanwhile, Hamas fighters wouldn’t just slay Israeli soldiers in Israeli hospitals, they’d be raping the nurses first
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    100+ units a week. Sometimes drinking red wine first thing in the morning, and drinking every single day for month after month

    Dunno if that’s the deffo of alky, but that’s what I was doing
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited January 30

    Rwanda policy should have been quietly ditched when Braverman left but Sunak has not the political awareness to have veered away from it

    On Rwanda itself there is an irony that Arsenal promote 'Visit Rwanda' on their shirts and stadium

    On a personal note the hospital has done my pre assessment interview with me and confirmed the pacemaker operation for Tuesday 6th February which is a relief with so many procedures being postponed or cancelled

    Is there an indication how long recovery can be expected to take?

    (I admit I'm being a touch selfish here; I don't want to watch many on PB having kittens unnecessarily if you are required to be incommunicado for a week in case your phone interferes with the new pacemaker!)

    Wishing you all the best still.

    When I was diagnosed with Diabetes Type I back in 2001 at the Royal Free Hospital, there was a line drawn across the hospital entrance, and mobile phones were only allowed to be used on the "outside" side.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    The truth is our current economic and social infrastructure would probably fall over without large immigration each and every year. The Tories, and Labour to be fair, would obviously do something about it if there were an answer - electorally it's a big problem.

    The question is: why this wasn't the case in the 1990s - were the demographics simply much more favourable? - and how do we spend over the 10-20 years so it becomes no longer necessary through structural reform?

    In the meantime, immigration is more carefully controlled - and university "students" need clamping down on, and HMG will have to step in to fund those universities more so they are not as reliant on them.

    It was the easy option from the political class. Training Brits would have been far more expensive and difficult.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    A friend of mine (!) went to the doctor. Do you drink a lot, he was asked. Thinking he might as well be honest they said, well yes I do I suppose (he drank most days a gin in the evening and a half of bottle of wine or so to follow). OK said the doctor, what time in the morning do you start? To which my friend recoiled, shocked.

    What time in the morning do you start drinking. That I imagine is one indicator.

    My friend was heartened to know he didn't figure on the doctor's problem drinking scale.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 30
    On the question of the old British TV schedules containing plenty of duds, this is particularlt true in the worlds of comedy and light entertainment.

    However, particularly away from comedy, and towards documentary and tv plays, a lot of the duds were very interesting duds. These genres of British TV were the envy of the world between the 1960's and 1990's. This is not the case now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,396
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    A friend of mine (!) went to the doctor. Do you drink a lot, he was asked. Thinking he might as well be honest they said, well yes I do I suppose (he drank most days a gin in the evening and a half of bottle of wine or so to follow). OK said the doctor, what time in the morning do you start? To which my friend recoiled, shocked.

    What time in the morning do you start drinking. That I imagine is one indicator.

    My friend was heartened to know he didn't figure on the doctor's problem drinking scale.
    My dear mother in law managed to avoid starting the drinking until about 11 o'clock but then the red wine would be ever present until switching to whisky and lemonade in the evenings. She argued that she just didn't like any other drinks, but it became really obvious to me that she had a problem when (a) she refused to go to any cafes for lunch that didn't have a licence and (b) she carried red wine around in an old plastic coke bottle (and it did indeed look like blackcurrant squash).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited January 30

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    "Only when I Laugh (Larf)", "(Oh no it's) Selwyn Froggit", "Agony", "Bless this House", "Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club", "Man About the House", "Robin's Nest", "George and Mildred", "The Lovers", "The cuckoo Waltz", "Rising Damp"...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    A friend of mine (!) went to the doctor. Do you drink a lot, he was asked. Thinking he might as well be honest they said, well yes I do I suppose (he drank most days a gin in the evening and a half of bottle of wine or so to follow). OK said the doctor, what time in the morning do you start? To which my friend recoiled, shocked.

    What time in the morning do you start drinking. That I imagine is one indicator.

    My friend was heartened to know he didn't figure on the doctor's problem drinking scale.
    The trouble is alcohol consumption is like income or wealth. No matter where you are on the scale there are people who drink significantly less, and people who drink significantly more. You can scare yourself about the former and reassure yourself with the latter.

    I have the "drink less" app which I've been completing daily since 2017. I did a questionnaire on it a while back telling me I drink more than something like 97% of the population. But my average weekly intake is about 35-37 units.

    Public health professionals will tell you 37 units a week is sending you to an early grave. Others will chortle and report that they have that before 12pm on a Monday.

    I would like to get down to mid 20s per week. I've no desire or need to hit the 14 unit official safe limit, which is around 1 pint or one largish glass of wine a day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    MattW said:

    Rwanda policy should have been quietly ditched when Braverman left but Sunak has not the political awareness to have veered away from it

    On Rwanda itself there is an irony that Arsenal promote 'Visit Rwanda' on their shirts and stadium

    On a personal note the hospital has done my pre assessment interview with me and confirmed the pacemaker operation for Tuesday 6th February which is a relief with so many procedures being postponed or cancelled

    Is there an indication how long recovery can be expected to take?

    (I admit I'm being a touch selfish here; I don't want to watch many on PB having kittens unnecessarily if you are required to be incommunicado for a week !)

    Wishing you all the best still.
    That is so funny and I expect to be very much better almost immediately as the pacemaker regulates my heart. The operation is under local anesthetic and takes about an hour but the pre meds and recovery means it is a day stay in most cases

    The pacemaker once implanted is regularly checked at the pacemaker clinic and adjustments made by computer without any invasion of the body. It is a highly technical piece of equipment and means I have to carry a pacemaker card with me at all times and I have to avoid electro magnetic fields including things like induction hobs

    Because you and the pacemaker are regularly monitored and the beneficial effects occur almost immediately the DVLA and the consultant will approve me driving 7 days after the operation but I must inform my insurers. I have not driven since the consultant informed me of the need for a pacemaker on the 27th December

    I am very positive about the outcome and hopefully my quality of life will greatly improve

    I would just say I have informed my Executors of my contributions, often silly as they are, to this forum and they will be in touch if required !!!!
    I do like the idea of having silly executors, but I sincerely hope we won't be hearing from them.

    Plus, you will have a great excuse to avoid cooking from now on.
  • viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    "Only when I Laugh (Larf)", "(Oh no it's) Selwyn Froggit", "Agony", "Bless this House", "Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club", "Man About the House", "Robin's Nest", "George and Mildred", "The Lovers", "Rising Damp"...
    Man About The House is another ITV3 favourite, with a long intro of the lead actress's bottom in jeans walking through the King's Road which would come under that ever-expanding heading of "wouldn't be done now".

    Rising Damp is another one I've occasionally spotted on there ; not too bad, with George and Mildred.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,243
    Andy_JS said:

    The truth is our current economic and social infrastructure would probably fall over without large immigration each and every year. The Tories, and Labour to be fair, would obviously do something about it if there were an answer - electorally it's a big problem.

    The question is: why this wasn't the case in the 1990s - were the demographics simply much more favourable? - and how do we spend over the 10-20 years so it becomes no longer necessary through structural reform?

    In the meantime, immigration is more carefully controlled - and university "students" need clamping down on, and HMG will have to step in to fund those universities more so they are not as reliant on them.

    It was the easy option from the political class. Training Brits would have been far more expensive and difficult.
    The “Brits” are too lazy to work for minimum wage or less. Strangely, they don’t relish back breaking work for low pay and living in impromtu “Homes in Multiple Occupation”.

    Obviously, the answer is to get the Krypteia to trim the headcount of the ungrateful and inspire the others.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IPSOS are apparently the only pollster still interviewing by phone; don’t know if that’s irrelevant to their latest poll being swingy, or their results generally, but worth knowing perhaps
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    "Only when I Laugh (Larf)", "(Oh no it's) Selwyn Froggit", "Agony", "Bless this House", "Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club", "Man About the House", "Robin's Nest", "George and Mildred", "The Lovers", "Rising Damp"...
    Freeview channel 65 ("That's TV") shows a lot of old TV comedies from time to time.
  • Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Rwanda policy should have been quietly ditched when Braverman left but Sunak has not the political awareness to have veered away from it

    On Rwanda itself there is an irony that Arsenal promote 'Visit Rwanda' on their shirts and stadium

    On a personal note the hospital has done my pre assessment interview with me and confirmed the pacemaker operation for Tuesday 6th February which is a relief with so many procedures being postponed or cancelled

    Is there an indication how long recovery can be expected to take?

    (I admit I'm being a touch selfish here; I don't want to watch many on PB having kittens unnecessarily if you are required to be incommunicado for a week !)

    Wishing you all the best still.
    That is so funny and I expect to be very much better almost immediately as the pacemaker regulates my heart. The operation is under local anesthetic and takes about an hour but the pre meds and recovery means it is a day stay in most cases

    The pacemaker once implanted is regularly checked at the pacemaker clinic and adjustments made by computer without any invasion of the body. It is a highly technical piece of equipment and means I have to carry a pacemaker card with me at all times and I have to avoid electro magnetic fields including things like induction hobs

    Because you and the pacemaker are regularly monitored and the beneficial effects occur almost immediately the DVLA and the consultant will approve me driving 7 days after the operation but I must inform my insurers. I have not driven since the consultant informed me of the need for a pacemaker on the 27th December

    I am very positive about the outcome and hopefully my quality of life will greatly improve

    I would just say I have informed my Executors of my contributions, often silly as they are, to this forum and they will be in touch if required !!!!
    I do like the idea of having silly executors, but I sincerely hope we won't be hearing from them.

    Plus, you will have a great excuse to avoid cooking from now on.
    Air fryers are ok but we do have induction hobs
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    "Only when I Laugh (Larf)", "(Oh no it's) Selwyn Froggit", "Agony", "Bless this House", "Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club", "Man About the House", "Robin's Nest", "George and Mildred", "The Lovers", "Rising Damp"...
    Man About The House is another ITV3 favourite, with a long intro of the lead actress's bottom in jeans walking through the King's Road which would come under that ever-expanding heading of "wouldn't be done now".

    Rising Damp is another one I've occasionally spotted on there ; not too bad, with George and Mildred.

    GBNews could launch a spin-off comedy channel:

    Love Thy Neighbour
    Mind Your Language
    Til Death US Do Part
    Any episode of The Comedians featuring Bernard Manning
  • viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    PB BRAINS TRUST

    Has any PB-er ever been to the Stans of Central Asia?

    I AM DESPERATE TO GET TO THE STANS OF CENTRAL ASIA

    I am making some nice money what with working so hard and halving my drinking and I am prepared to SPUNK IT all over some travel to the last corners of the the globe I do not know. The STANS rank high. I intend to go this summer

    However it would be nice if I could get the Knappers Gazette to commission me to write about the “Rhyolite Sex Ticklers of Samarkand” so if any well travelled PBer thinks there is a story to be written about the STANS please tell me, and I will pray for you at the confluence of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap

    The mountains of heaven: Tien Shan, that’s gotta be amazing. But what’s the angle?

    You have asked this before and I have answered it before. That famously high IQ is in inevitable decline.

    Chechnya is were the stories are. Islamic/OCG statelet and Russian satrapy.
    Yes yes, big boy, go back to your DVDs of TERRY AND JUNE, the 1978 season

    Besides, Chechnya is not Central Asia. It is the Caucasus

    That’s a pretty basic fail for someone who claims to be ex UK Armed Forces tho it might explain much of our less-than-stellar performance in the battlefield post-Falklands. When you were stationed in Iraq you actually thought you were in Mongolia

    Terry and June did not start until 1979.

    In 1978 it was still the predecessor series, Happy Ever After, which also had Beryl Cooke as Aunt Lucy.

    The good news for Dura Ace is it is available on DVD.
    As someone born in 1972, and thus becoming aware of TV in the late 70's and early 80's I recall Terry and June, The Manor Born, Porridge, Yes Minister etc fondly. But there is a shadowing hinterland of the early to mid 70's which every now and then you can find on an odd TV channel. Sitcoms that never became the 'classics' above. Like the one with David Jason - Lucky Feller.
    "Only when I Laugh (Larf)", "(Oh no it's) Selwyn Froggit", "Agony", "Bless this House", "Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club", "Man About the House", "Robin's Nest", "George and Mildred", "The Lovers", "Rising Damp"...
    Man About The House is another ITV3 favourite, with a long intro of the lead actress's bottom in jeans walking through the King's Road which would come under that ever-expanding heading of "wouldn't be done now".

    Rising Damp is another one I've occasionally spotted on there ; not too bad, with George and Mildred.

    GBNews could launch a spin-off comedy channel:

    Love Thy Neighbour
    Mind Your Language
    Til Death US Do Part
    Any episode of The Comedians featuring Bernard Manning
    Benny Hill !!!!
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Even Germany is now considering offshore processing.

    https://www.arabnews.com/node/2401306/amp
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    edited January 30
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    A friend of mine (!) went to the doctor. Do you drink a lot, he was asked. Thinking he might as well be honest they said, well yes I do I suppose (he drank most days a gin in the evening and a half of bottle of wine or so to follow). OK said the doctor, what time in the morning do you start? To which my friend recoiled, shocked.

    What time in the morning do you start drinking. That I imagine is one indicator.

    My friend was heartened to know he didn't figure on the doctor's problem drinking scale.
    The trouble is alcohol consumption is like income or wealth. No matter where you are on the scale there are people who drink significantly less, and people who drink significantly more. You can scare yourself about the former and reassure yourself with the latter.

    I have the "drink less" app which I've been completing daily since 2017. I did a questionnaire on it a while back telling me I drink more than something like 97% of the population. But my average weekly intake is about 35-37 units.

    Public health professionals will tell you 37 units a week is sending you to an early grave. Others will chortle and report that they have that before 12pm on a Monday.

    I would like to get down to mid 20s per week. I've no desire or need to hit the 14 unit official safe limit, which is around 1 pint or one largish glass of wine a day.
    I've managed to get down to thirty. But only by limiting alcohol to three days a week. Trying to spread it out wasn't working - if I open a bottle of wine, it's getting finished.

    I don't have the same issue at lunchtimes. Can have a quick pint on Sat lunchtime at the pub without wanting to spend the afternoon drinking.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108
    Leon said:

    i really couldn’t give a fuck if the IDF are going into hospitals and slotting Hamas fighters. It’s a war, to the end, and both sides want it - as polls show. Meanwhile, Hamas fighters wouldn’t just slay Israeli soldiers in Israeli hospitals, they’d be raping the nurses first

    You sound like you need a drink.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    A friend of mine (!) went to the doctor. Do you drink a lot, he was asked. Thinking he might as well be honest they said, well yes I do I suppose (he drank most days a gin in the evening and a half of bottle of wine or so to follow). OK said the doctor, what time in the morning do you start? To which my friend recoiled, shocked.

    What time in the morning do you start drinking. That I imagine is one indicator.

    My friend was heartened to know he didn't figure on the doctor's problem drinking scale.
    The trouble is alcohol consumption is like income or wealth. No matter where you are on the scale there are people who drink significantly less, and people who drink significantly more. You can scare yourself about the former and reassure yourself with the latter.

    I have the "drink less" app which I've been completing daily since 2017. I did a questionnaire on it a while back telling me I drink more than something like 97% of the population. But my average weekly intake is about 35-37 units.

    Public health professionals will tell you 37 units a week is sending you to an early grave. Others will chortle and report that they have that before 12pm on a Monday.

    I would like to get down to mid 20s per week. I've no desire or need to hit the 14 unit official safe limit, which is around 1 pint or one largish glass of wine a day.
    I've managed to get down to thirty. But only by limiting alcohol to three days a week. Trying to spread it out wasn't working - if I open a bottle of wine, it's getting finished.

    I don't have the same issue at lunchtimes. Can have a quick pint on Sat lunchtime at the pub without wanting to spend the afternoon drinking.
    I've taken a similar approach. But I find 3 days a week difficult because I really fancy a drink come Thursday (and it's often the chosen night for social events), and I can't do Sunday roast without wine. So most weeks it's 4 days.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited January 30
    isam said:

    IPSOS are apparently the only pollster still interviewing by phone; don’t know if that’s irrelevant to their latest poll being swingy, or their results generally, but worth knowing perhaps

    I assume everyone else is polling on-line? Elderly staunch Tories like my 92 yo father-in-law have no internet; I wonder how well the online pollsters weight for such a demographic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    For the record, my Dad was a committed smoker for most of his adult life - 40-60 a day, no joke - and after the age of about 40, when he got richer, he drank a bottle of red or more a day, often with brandy - maybe 80-100 units a week - until his dying breath, age 88

    However, in the end the smoking got him, he died of lung cancer, which is a bit like saying he died of his bread intake, or too much walking, or being a person. At 88, you die
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    isam said:

    IPSOS are apparently the only pollster still interviewing by phone; don’t know if that’s irrelevant to their latest poll being swingy, or their results generally, but worth knowing perhaps

    Landlines or mobiles? Do we know?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    Different types. Eg habitual but restrained drinking where you're always thinking about it. When should I have one? Looking forward to it intensely. Defining your day by it. That's alky.

    Also hardly ever drinking, or even tee total, but always conscious of that. Look at me not drinking. Here I am not drinking. As I read this book I am not drinking. That's alky.

    Then there’s the binge type. Fine not drinking, no problem at all, but cannot have one. Have one and the brain chemistry changes, you have to have more, a lot more. Alky.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    Different types. Eg habitual but restrained drinking where you're always thinking about it. When should I have one? Looking forward to it intensely. Defining your day by it. That's alky.

    Also hardly ever drinking, or even tee total, but always conscious of that. Look at me not drinking. Here I am not drinking. As I read this book I am not drinking. That's alky.

    Then there’s the binge type. Fine not drinking, no problem at all, but cannot have one. Have one and the brain chemistry changes, you have to have more, a lot more. Alky.
    You sound, if I may say so, like an alky

    That's not meant insultingly. But someone who has thought about it that much has obviously wrestled with addiction, or at least the possiblity of it
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    For the record, my Dad was a committed smoker for most of his adult life - 40-60 a day, no joke - and after the age of about 40, when he got richer, he drank a bottle of red or more a day, often with brandy - maybe 80-100 units a week - until his dying breath, age 88

    However, in the end the smoking got him, he died of lung cancer, which is a bit like saying he died of his bread intake, or too much walking, or being a person. At 88, you die

    So he beat the odds, so what?

    This is a betting site, do you not understand probabilities?

    You might beat the odds but that doesn't change them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,258
    edited January 30
    Also, after the age of, say, 75, does it matter if you are an alky?

    Any years after that are surely a bonus, so if you do them sozzled, fair play
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    For the record, my Dad was a committed smoker for most of his adult life - 40-60 a day, no joke - and after the age of about 40, when he got richer, he drank a bottle of red or more a day, often with brandy - maybe 80-100 units a week - until his dying breath, age 88

    However, in the end the smoking got him, he died of lung cancer, which is a bit like saying he died of his bread intake, or too much walking, or being a person. At 88, you die

    So he beat the odds, so what?

    This is a betting site, do you not understand probabilities?

    You might beat the odds but that doesn't change them.
    "Never tell me the odds!" - Han Solo.
  • 148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    Do Hamas wear a uniform, identifying them as such?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,953

    148grss said:

    Another war crime, beamed onto our screens for everyone to see

    https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1752233848262295844

    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    1. It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:

    (a) The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    (b) The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    (c) The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    (d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.

    Do Hamas wear a uniform, identifying them as such?
    You quisling. Hamas are allowed to hide in hospitals planning to blow stuff up (what are they planning to blow up? No idea, perhaps those derelict blocks of flats so they can build a garden suburb) and it is their right under the Geneva Convention to carry out their operation unmolested.

    Plus one of the Israeli SF team used a wheelchair for subterfuge, the rotter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Bored again

    BUT TODAY I AM ALLOWED TO DRINK

    hahahah

    But what if you choose not to ?
    I would literally expire from the tedium

    Tomorrow another dry day. And so it goes

    Getting an AWFUL lot of work done, tho
    I haven't had a drink for 18 months. It does make life very boring. But you sleep better.
    Is this for medical reasons AAMOI. I ask because many of my friends have cut down drinking significantly, as have I. One has given it up completely but does from time to time bemoan the absence of a good glass of burgundy, or whatever. I have no idea why they don't just have the odd glass of wine.

    I get the "all or nothing" mentality but it seems illogical. My friend doesn't think that one glass will lead to 10 pints of snakebite and five bottles of a decent red.
    Yes, I don’t understand the “give up entirely” brigade unless you are in danger of actual alcoholism. There is ample evidence SOME drinking is physically good for you - phenols, red wines, etc - and even if you dispute that (as some doctors do), it is indisputable that the social benefits of MODERATE drinking are significant. The Mediterranean diet specifically includes a few glasses of vino as part of the deal, it makes you happier and more social and outgoing even if there are NO physiological positives

    Unless you are a problem drinker, why quit entirely?

    I simply want to scale back to a more sensible intake
    But you are an alcoholic, aren't you? Hence the amount of headspace taken up with thoughts of booze, what to have, how much of it, the rules and safeguards required to keep it all under control. I also was/am and so I recognize this very well. It was age, essentially, that helped me out.
    Yes, i am an alcoholic, no question

    However I am also possessed of SUPER HUMAN WILLPOWER

    Eg I quite heroin at the age of 37 when practically everyone around me (God bless them, they tried to help) had given up on me. I did it with will power. You just have to want something ENOUGH, and - all being equal - you can do it. Quitting cigs was a doddle, for me

    So, I reckon I can do this. Moderate my booze intake to a sensible level so I can still enjoy wine as and when. Wish me luck
    How would you define 'alcoholic' here? (Just want to see if I'm one.)
    Different types. Eg habitual but restrained drinking where you're always thinking about it. When should I have one? Looking forward to it intensely. Defining your day by it. That's alky.

    Also hardly ever drinking, or even tee total, but always conscious of that. Look at me not drinking. Here I am not drinking. As I read this book I am not drinking. That's alky.

    Then there’s the binge type. Fine not drinking, no problem at all, but cannot have one. Have one and the brain chemistry changes, you have to have more, a lot more. Alky.
    You sound, if I may say so, like an alky

    That's not meant insultingly. But someone who has thought about it that much has obviously wrestled with addiction, or at least the possiblity of it
    Yes, for sure. It's been a problem for me, at times threatening ruin. Ok now though. Ok for quite a while. I found discipline and balance in my late forties.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,108
    Leon said:

    For the record, my Dad was a committed smoker for most of his adult life - 40-60 a day, no joke - and after the age of about 40, when he got richer, he drank a bottle of red or more a day, often with brandy - maybe 80-100 units a week - until his dying breath, age 88

    However, in the end the smoking got him, he died of lung cancer, which is a bit like saying he died of his bread intake, or too much walking, or being a person. At 88, you die

    Did he not give up smoking though? He wasn't puffing to the end, was he?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    The Office for National Statistics just forecast that between today and 2036 Britain's population will grow by 6.6 million people --6.1 million of which will be due to international net migration.

    That is bigger than the combined current populations of Greater Manchester, the West Midlands and Leeds.

    That looks like the battleground for the next election to me.

    What are the chances the main political parties completely ignore this?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    ....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alliance leader Naomi Long on the DUP deal: “There is nothing in the deal that wasn't available in 2018 under Theresa May.”

    The DUP are the biggest cucks in UK politics.

    I know some get exercised by Starmer’s lies but nothing will ever top Boris Johnson going to the DUP conference and telling them no UK PM could put a border in the Irish Sea then won an election and put a border in the Irish Sea.
    What worries me is the Tories on PB and elsewhere presenting a deal with the DUP as a HUUUUUUGE ACHIEVEMENT.

    We've been there before, as indeed you show.
    The new green lane agreed with the EU ensures no checks on goods between GB and NI so that is what persuaded the DUP to accept this deal
    That's assuming everyone plays nicely. And you carefully said 'no checks' not 'no controls'.

    Firstly, the UK still isn't properly checking anything going anywhere into the Uk. So, big deal.

    Secondly, there's a lot of stuff not allowed into NI at all. From GB. Have a look at your shopping next time you go to the supermarket.

    So much for the vaunted Union protected bny the "Conservative" and "Unionist" Party.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873
    Leon said:

    For the record, my Dad was a committed smoker for most of his adult life - 40-60 a day, no joke - and after the age of about 40, when he got richer, he drank a bottle of red or more a day, often with brandy - maybe 80-100 units a week - until his dying breath, age 88

    However, in the end the smoking got him, he died of lung cancer, which is a bit like saying he died of his bread intake, or too much walking, or being a person. At 88, you die

    Yes, although we need to be wary of the Covid-era argument that crumblies and coffin-dodgers don't matter. But you are right that 88 is a good innings and we all have to die of something.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,047
    WillG said:

    Even Germany is now considering offshore processing.

    https://www.arabnews.com/node/2401306/amp

    Thanks.

    The article says the proposal is similar to the UK's Rwanda scheme, but it isn't. There are lots of proposals for offshore processing, but the UK scheme is more offshore final settlement.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    Even Germany is now considering offshore processing.

    https://www.arabnews.com/node/2401306/amp

    Thanks.

    The article says the proposal is similar to the UK's Rwanda scheme, but it isn't. There are lots of proposals for offshore processing, but the UK scheme is more offshore final settlement.
    I feel less strongly about final settlement. But we should absolutely be doing 100% of asylum processing outside the UK.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    WillG said:

    Even Germany is now considering offshore processing.

    https://www.arabnews.com/node/2401306/amp

    Thanks.

    The article says the proposal is similar to the UK's Rwanda scheme, but it isn't. There are lots of proposals for offshore processing, but the UK scheme is more offshore final settlement.
    Nah the UK scheme is pay Rwanda hundreds of millions for some theatre to make our courts look bad to prop up a failed government.
This discussion has been closed.