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I hope Nadine Dorries is right – politicalbetting.com

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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,866
    edited January 17
    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,686
    Russia hacked ex-MI6 chief’s emails – what they reveal is more Dad’s Army than deep state
    A Russian hacking group that published emails of ex-MI6 chief Richard Dearlove claimed to have uncovered a conspiracy, but it was more Dad’s Army than the ‘deep state’

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366565960/Russia-hacked-ex-MI6-chiefs-emails-what-they-reveal-is-more-Dads-Army-than-deep-state

    A quite remarkable story from everyone's favourite investigative rag.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Nigelb said:

    On the whole digital vs print thing.
    Fairly small study, but interesting.

    Middle-schoolers’ reading and processing depth in response to digital and print media: An N400 study
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.30.553693v1
    We report the first use of ERP measures to identify text engagement differences when reading digitally or in print. Depth of semantic encoding is key for reading comprehension, and we predicted that deeper reading of expository texts would facilitate stronger associations with subsequently-presented related words, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to unrelated probe words and a graded attenuation of the N400 to related and moderately related words. In contrast, shallow reading would produce weaker associations between probe words and text passages, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to both moderately related and unrelated words, and an attenuated response to related words. Behavioral research has shown deeper semantic encoding of text from paper than from a screen. Hence, we predicted that the N400 would index deeper reading of text passages that were presented in print, and shallower reading of texts presented digitally.

    Middle-school students (n = 59) read passages in digital and print formats and high-density EEG was recorded while participants completed single-word semantic judgment tasks after each passage. Following digital text reading, the N400 response pattern anticipated for shallow reading was observed. Following print reading, the N400 response pattern expected for deeper reading was observed for related and unrelated words, although mean amplitude differences between related and moderately related probe words did not reach significance. These findings provide evidence of differences in brain responses to texts presented in print and digital media, including deeper semantic encoding for print than digital texts.


    If it bears out, another confounding factor for Leon's 'IQ is crashing' theory.

    Fascinating

    That matches my experience. Words read digitally tend to wash over me, a little more, than words read on dead trees. I’ve also noticed that if I write an article for the Gazette, if I print it out I see errors or ugliness that my brain somehow misses when reading the very same words on screen

    I’d be interested to read a similar study on audiobooks v books (or ebooks). I am now consuming a lot of audiobooks, as I have belatedly realised they can be satisfyingly used to fill the boring times - exercise, loafing, swimming, the bit before siesta, etc
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666
    edited January 17

    Scott_xP said:

    @kateferguson4

    One Tory rebel tells me they only expect a hardcore of four or five MPs to actually vote against the Rwanda Bill tonight

    You'd think there were far more than that convinced their seat was lost - so go out in a blaze of glory....
    Indeed if body language is anything to go by. Not just PMQs but NI questions before hand, the government front bench slumped, head down, flat as a pancake, whilst during PMQs Marc Fransour was always clearly in shot behind Rishi and looking like a Cheshire Cat - upright, glowing and smiling.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,384
    edited January 17

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    🫢. ☹️
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    That sounds like…. Various things I don’t want to even mention

    Ugh

    God save the Princess of Wales!

    And I mean it. She’s my favourite royal. Poised, decorous, gracious, grand daughter of coal miners, never puts a foot wrong. Others may scoff but I am a monarchist and she is GOOD for the monarchy

    Also, a young mum. Eeek
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    I think the administration has worked this out some time ago.
    They want a deal - but a deal that can get through Congress requires both sides to deal.

    Former NATO chief to Democrats: Cut a border deal to help Ukraine and beat Trump
    “Biden has an interest in solving that issue before the election,” Rasmussen told POLITICO.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/17/former-nato-chief-rasmussen-border-deal-ukraine-00135959
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    On the whole digital vs print thing.
    Fairly small study, but interesting.

    Middle-schoolers’ reading and processing depth in response to digital and print media: An N400 study
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.30.553693v1
    We report the first use of ERP measures to identify text engagement differences when reading digitally or in print. Depth of semantic encoding is key for reading comprehension, and we predicted that deeper reading of expository texts would facilitate stronger associations with subsequently-presented related words, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to unrelated probe words and a graded attenuation of the N400 to related and moderately related words. In contrast, shallow reading would produce weaker associations between probe words and text passages, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to both moderately related and unrelated words, and an attenuated response to related words. Behavioral research has shown deeper semantic encoding of text from paper than from a screen. Hence, we predicted that the N400 would index deeper reading of text passages that were presented in print, and shallower reading of texts presented digitally.

    Middle-school students (n = 59) read passages in digital and print formats and high-density EEG was recorded while participants completed single-word semantic judgment tasks after each passage. Following digital text reading, the N400 response pattern anticipated for shallow reading was observed. Following print reading, the N400 response pattern expected for deeper reading was observed for related and unrelated words, although mean amplitude differences between related and moderately related probe words did not reach significance. These findings provide evidence of differences in brain responses to texts presented in print and digital media, including deeper semantic encoding for print than digital texts.


    If it bears out, another confounding factor for Leon's 'IQ is crashing' theory.

    Fascinating

    That matches my experience. Words read digitally tend to wash over me, a little more, than words read on dead trees. I’ve also noticed that if I write an article for the Gazette, if I print it out I see errors or ugliness that my brain somehow misses when reading the very same words on screen

    I’d be interested to read a similar study on audiobooks v books (or ebooks). I am now consuming a lot of audiobooks, as I have belatedly realised they can be satisfyingly used to fill the boring times - exercise, loafing, swimming, the bit before siesta, etc
    It will need a lot more investigation.
    But the idea that the move away from print to screens in modern education (and even more so in home life) could have had measurable consequences for learning, is an interesting one.

    What "N400" means in this context:
    ..our experimental approach to measuring reading comprehension in the brain made use of a signature of electrophysiological activation associated with semantics in language processing: the N400 event-related potential (e.g., [34, 35]).
    The N400 event-related potential (ERP) indexes brain response differences between expected and unexpected stimuli. Since we hypothesized that the encoding of word meaning during the reading experience is critical for comprehension, then we should be able to index shallow vs. deep information processing of text delivered in print or digitally by observing differences in N400 responses to probe words that were selected to be related, moderately related, or unrelated in meaning to written passages...
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,220

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
  • Options
    ajbajb Posts: 124
    Andy_JS said:

    Today's PO witness. Fujitsu software engineer John Simpkins.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPHveu_Rd7k

    Someone tell the inquiry that they need to provide witnesses with a whiteboard.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Just want to say, Three large well-made gin and tonics, in a leafy and chic tropical lane, surrounded by fun little cafes and boutiques, with a sweet al fresco scene… and all of this right next to Wat Botum (pol pot’s temple, 15th century) and 300 yards from the Khmer royal palace, a deeply charming tropical urban environment, like taking the nicest bits of Bangkok and Luang Prabang and Hanoi and putting them all together but making it as quiet as a particularly hedonistic village

    Those three gin and tonics have cost me $10…. total. RIDIC
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,552

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    Yep. A couple of things come to mind from the few released details. Wish her well.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,687
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    That sounds like…. Various things I don’t want to even mention

    Ugh

    God save the Princess of Wales!

    And I mean it. She’s my favourite royal. Poised, decorous, gracious, grand daughter of coal miners, never puts a foot wrong. Others may scoff but I am a monarchist and she is GOOD for the monarchy

    Also, a young mum. Eeek
    Everything you say about the qualities of this lovely person is just right. Thoughts and prayers for her, the children and all her family.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,943
    Leon said:

    Just want to say, Three large well-made gin and tonics, in a leafy and chic tropical lane, surrounded by fun little cafes and boutiques, with a sweet al fresco scene… and all of this right next to Wat Botum (pol pot’s temple, 15th century) and 300 yards from the Khmer royal palace, a deeply charming tropical urban environment, like taking the nicest bits of Bangkok and Luang Prabang and Hanoi and putting them all together but making it as quiet as a particularly hedonistic village

    Those three gin and tonics have cost me $10…. total. RIDIC

    Sounds very similar to Deptford high street. The G&Ts in the palm-bedecked garden of Isla Ray are good value and there are, at the last count, at least a dozen outlets of Indochinese origin (admittedly all seemingly Vietnamese) along the main drag.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,687
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    Yep. A couple of things come to mind from the few released details. Wish her well.
    People in public life are just like most of the rest of us who have a high regard for medical confidentiality. We should view this in the same way as we would the confidentiality of anyone close to us.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,509
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,687
    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    The italicised bit is one way of describing the common ground of
    T May and the Friend of Hamas, but I'm not sure it captures the totality.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,943
    edited January 17

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    Direct investment in Ukrainian domestic weapons manufacture is surely something German politicians and companies could get their behind. Win-win. Ukraine has seemingly advanced rapidly in developing and adapting its own military hardware and must surely, if the war ends reasonably positively, be well set up to become a major defence manufacturing hub in future. Long term as good as sending weapons I'd have thought, in the teach a man to fish sense.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,509
    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    Its not entirely right as a theory though is it. There is an incumbency effect (assuming that a constituency hasn't been totally smashed in the review) and where the constituencies have been mashed, you can't compare it to any previous election.

    The reality is that 14 years in the Tories look like a party who need a break, the country is sick of them, and even if things start to improve over the next six months the damage is baked in.

    And yet you can still make 30% profit on a labour majority.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072

    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    Its not entirely right as a theory though is it. There is an incumbency effect (assuming that a constituency hasn't been totally smashed in the review) and where the constituencies have been mashed, you can't compare it to any previous election.

    The reality is that 14 years in the Tories look like a party who need a break, the country is sick of them, and even if things start to improve over the next six months the damage is baked in.

    And yet you can still make 30% profit on a labour majority.
    As I said yesterday, if Labour win a majority, it will be the first time in five major elections that the favourite at the beginning of the year has won. But I agree, there doesn’t seem any reason to vote for the Tories now really, unless you’re the type who always votes for the same team because you always have
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    I don't think 'especially the tanks' is right. Unless you want to say that the US and the UK (and France and Italy who still haven't sent any I believe) were also oddly reticent to send tanks.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,943

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,547
    Off topic: So, is Macron going to do anything personally to increase births in France? (At the very least, he could contribute to a sperm bank.)

    He and his wife do have a dog.
  • Options
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    Its not entirely right as a theory though is it. There is an incumbency effect (assuming that a constituency hasn't been totally smashed in the review) and where the constituencies have been mashed, you can't compare it to any previous election.

    The reality is that 14 years in the Tories look like a party who need a break, the country is sick of them, and even if things start to improve over the next six months the damage is baked in.

    And yet you can still make 30% profit on a labour majority.
    As I said yesterday, if Labour win a majority, it will be the first time in five major elections that the favourite at the beginning of the year has won. But I agree, there doesn’t seem any reason to vote for the Tories now really, unless you’re the type who always votes for the same team because you always have
    Not one for backing big odds on, Sam, as you would appreciate, but am seriously tempted to have a couple of grand on Labour for either most seats or overall maj. The return is small but considerably better than the interest the money will accrue in the bank.

    Wadyatink?

    Am instinctively cautious on these things so I thought I'd run it past you. (Naturally no obligation or responsibilty on you if it goes nipples upwards.)
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Germany was a laggard, but has given Ukraine more aid than anyone barring the US.
    (Considerably more than have we.)
    And is also sheltering over a million Ukrainian refugees, compared with our couple of hundred thousand.
    Bit unfair as Germany is much closer, and already had some quite big Ukrainian background communities. I think the UK has taken a lot more than France, despite France being easier to get to.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,789

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    East Politics has been a thing in Germany since before Bismarck. There is a belief among some historians that dropping the treaty with Russia, by the Kaiser was the first mistake on the road to WWI.

    But obviously much more important is that, since WWII, West Germany and now the united Germany defined themselves as Not *That* Germany - as a New Germany, unaggressive, trading, friendly, jaw-jaw-is-better-than-war-war. A big part of that is reaching out a hand of friendship to Russia - to put *WWII* behind.

    So exporting weapons to a country fighting Russia felt very un-natural to many German politicians. Not because they are Putin fans, but because their instincts have been trained for decades not to do such things.

    Putin has broken many barriers - Sweden and Finland in NATO! - and this is another one.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,789

    Off topic: So, is Macron going to do anything personally to increase births in France? (At the very least, he could contribute to a sperm bank.)

    He and his wife do have a dog.

    France has substantial tax breaks for those with a big family. He could increase those.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229
    In other - equally likely - news, I will soon begin dating Margot Robbie with the approval of my wife.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,161
    edited January 17

    Russia hacked ex-MI6 chief’s emails – what they reveal is more Dad’s Army than deep state
    A Russian hacking group that published emails of ex-MI6 chief Richard Dearlove claimed to have uncovered a conspiracy, but it was more Dad’s Army than the ‘deep state’

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366565960/Russia-hacked-ex-MI6-chiefs-emails-what-they-reveal-is-more-Dads-Army-than-deep-state

    A quite remarkable story from everyone's favourite investigative rag.

    So our security services are insecure and incompetent. That's reassuring :(
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,540
    Leon said:

    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read

    BBC reporting that the Palace have confirmed not cancer related. I find that a little ghoulish for them to have to confirm but I suppose they were worried people would jump to conclusions.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    The range of Taurus would make Putin's efforts to hold Crimea especially difficult. Nowhere there would be safe. The garrison protecting it is doing nothing else towards the wider war effort - it would effectively be a Russian pinata, just getting repeatedly whacked without fighting back.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    rcs1000 said:

    In other - equally likely - news, I will soon begin dating Margot Robbie with the approval of my wife.

    Are you not married to Margot Robbie then?

    Disappointed.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    edited January 17

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    Its not entirely right as a theory though is it. There is an incumbency effect (assuming that a constituency hasn't been totally smashed in the review) and where the constituencies have been mashed, you can't compare it to any previous election.

    The reality is that 14 years in the Tories look like a party who need a break, the country is sick of them, and even if things start to improve over the next six months the damage is baked in.

    And yet you can still make 30% profit on a labour majority.
    As I said yesterday, if Labour win a majority, it will be the first time in five major elections that the favourite at the beginning of the year has won. But I agree, there doesn’t seem any reason to vote for the Tories now really, unless you’re the type who always votes for the same team because you always have
    Not one for backing big odds on, Sam, as you would appreciate, but am seriously tempted to have a couple of grand on Labour for either most seats or overall maj. The return is small but considerably better than the interest the money will accrue in the bank.

    Wadyatink?

    Am instinctively cautious on these things so I thought I'd run it past you. (Naturally no obligation or responsibilty on you if it goes nipples upwards.)
    Both seem like they can’t get best don’t they? I find it hard to see how it could go wrong, but what puts me off is all the short priced favs turned over in recent GE’s and the referendum. I think I backed Con Maj in 2017 at 1.16! This time it really does feel different, but personally I’d be happy to let it go and not be upset if it wins. Not going to be a life changer
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    In other - equally likely - news, I will soon begin dating Margot Robbie with the approval of my wife.

    Just sing I’m a Barbie Girl at her.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,943

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    East Politics has been a thing in Germany since before Bismarck. There is a belief among some historians that dropping the treaty with Russia, by the Kaiser was the first mistake on the road to WWI.

    But obviously much more important is that, since WWII, West Germany and now the united Germany defined themselves as Not *That* Germany - as a New Germany, unaggressive, trading, friendly, jaw-jaw-is-better-than-war-war. A big part of that is reaching out a hand of friendship to Russia - to put *WWII* behind.

    So exporting weapons to a country fighting Russia felt very un-natural to many German politicians. Not because they are Putin fans, but because their instincts have been trained for decades not to do such things.

    Putin has broken many barriers - Sweden and Finland in NATO! - and this is another one.
    It's a fair point. So much easier culturally for the UK, with a long history of scrapping with the Russkies, than either for Germany with its Ostpolitik and unfortunate 20th Century events, France with its history of NATO semi-detachment and Italy with its lack of any real historical grudges with Russia.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,384
    edited January 17
    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,262

    Leon said:

    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read

    BBC reporting that the Palace have confirmed not cancer related. I find that a little ghoulish for them to have to confirm but I suppose they were worried people would jump to conclusions.
    A relative of mine spent about this much time in hospital with an almost-burst appendix, for which there had not been the usual obvious pains. Not everything serious is cancer or terminal.
  • Options
    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
    That’s sad. However I’ve also been there, it it’s any help? I’ve gone a year or two without really reading a book - apart from crap I had to read for work - and then it has suddenly reappeared, and it is again a great pleasure

    I’m reading a lot at the moment - I read kindle and e books on the road; I listen to audiobooks when my hands are full; I read paper books last thing at night when I need to calm down. And I do feel mentally better for it. Nourished

    I hope the habit returns for you. Maybe try a new genre? Something entirely out of the ordinary?
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,687

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I think it was @Heathener who said the election to compare the next with is 2017, not 2019; the Tories have an unelected leader who doesn’t enthuse their voters, and there’s no major policy divide between the two major parties. Throw in the fact that no one thinks the LotO is a crank and you can see why Labour what seems an unassailable advantage

    Its not entirely right as a theory though is it. There is an incumbency effect (assuming that a constituency hasn't been totally smashed in the review) and where the constituencies have been mashed, you can't compare it to any previous election.

    The reality is that 14 years in the Tories look like a party who need a break, the country is sick of them, and even if things start to improve over the next six months the damage is baked in.

    And yet you can still make 30% profit on a labour majority.
    As I said yesterday, if Labour win a majority, it will be the first time in five major elections that the favourite at the beginning of the year has won. But I agree, there doesn’t seem any reason to vote for the Tories now really, unless you’re the type who always votes for the same team because you always have
    Not one for backing big odds on, Sam, as you would appreciate, but am seriously tempted to have a couple of grand on Labour for either most seats or overall maj. The return is small but considerably better than the interest the money will accrue in the bank.

    Wadyatink?

    Am instinctively cautious on these things so I thought I'd run it past you. (Naturally no obligation or responsibilty on you if it goes nipples upwards.)
    The betting says there's about a 20% chance of Labour not getting an overall maj; so I don't think the rules ever change - it's fine to place 2 grand on Labour for most seats or OM but only as long as you have 2 grand to lose.

    I don't think it's free money, the atmosphere is too volatile and unprincipled, (not even Labour most seats), and that NOM is the value.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read

    BBC reporting that the Palace have confirmed not cancer related. I find that a little ghoulish for them to have to confirm but I suppose they were worried people would jump to conclusions.
    A relative of mine spent about this much time in hospital with an almost-burst appendix, for which there had not been the usual obvious pains. Not everything serious is cancer or terminal.
    Just to note that a hysterectomy normally only requires a couple of nights in hospital.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283
    The ITV programme on Trump's return that was recommended on here is worth watching. It covers the disillusion with Biden among some of the key groups that voted for him in 2020 quite well:

    https://www.itv.com/watch/trump-the-return/10a5226a0001B
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    edited January 17
    [Edit - misread the story]
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,161
    edited January 17

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine...

    [snip]

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    (buffs nails)

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
    That’s sad. However I’ve also been there, it it’s any help? I’ve gone a year or two without really reading a book - apart from crap I had to read for work - and then it has suddenly reappeared, and it is again a great pleasure

    I’m reading a lot at the moment - I read kindle and e books on the road; I listen to audiobooks when my hands are full; I read paper books last thing at night when I need to calm down. And I do feel mentally better for it. Nourished

    I hope the habit returns for you. Maybe try a new genre? Something entirely out of the ordinary?
    I bought a couple of books last week that I am looking forward to reading; Good Pop, Bad Pop by Jarvis Cocker and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. Only problem is I’ve about eighty others I’ve bought in the last few years to get through first.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,018
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    East Politics has been a thing in Germany since before Bismarck. There is a belief among some historians that dropping the treaty with Russia, by the Kaiser was the first mistake on the road to WWI.

    But obviously much more important is that, since WWII, West Germany and now the united Germany defined themselves as Not *That* Germany - as a New Germany, unaggressive, trading, friendly, jaw-jaw-is-better-than-war-war. A big part of that is reaching out a hand of friendship to Russia - to put *WWII* behind.

    So exporting weapons to a country fighting Russia felt very un-natural to many German politicians. Not because they are Putin fans, but because their instincts have been trained for decades not to do such things.

    Putin has broken many barriers - Sweden and Finland in NATO! - and this is another one.
    It's a fair point. So much easier culturally for the UK, with a long history of scrapping with the Russkies, than either for Germany with its Ostpolitik and unfortunate 20th Century events, France with its history of NATO semi-detachment and Italy with its lack of any real historical grudges with Russia.
    The Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, the predecessor of the modern Italian state, was a belligerent on our side during the Crimean War, and of course they were on the Axis side during the first part of WW2, although I am not sure if any Italian troops fought on the Eastern Front.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,540

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read

    BBC reporting that the Palace have confirmed not cancer related. I find that a little ghoulish for them to have to confirm but I suppose they were worried people would jump to conclusions.
    A relative of mine spent about this much time in hospital with an almost-burst appendix, for which there had not been the usual obvious pains. Not everything serious is cancer or terminal.
    Just to note that a hysterectomy normally only requires a couple of nights in hospital.
    True, though it can be longer. A relative of mine was in for just shy of a week, though I can’t claim to know the reasons why.
  • Options

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
    That’s sad. However I’ve also been there, it it’s any help? I’ve gone a year or two without really reading a book - apart from crap I had to read for work - and then it has suddenly reappeared, and it is again a great pleasure

    I’m reading a lot at the moment - I read kindle and e books on the road; I listen to audiobooks when my hands are full; I read paper books last thing at night when I need to calm down. And I do feel mentally better for it. Nourished

    I hope the habit returns for you. Maybe try a new genre? Something entirely out of the ordinary?
    I bought a couple of books last week that I am looking forward to reading; Good Pop, Bad Pop by Jarvis Cocker and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. Only problem is I’ve about eighty others I’ve bought in the last few years to get through first.
    I can recommend Ma’am Darling by Craig Brown as an unusual book that brought me back to reading. It’s a waspish biography of Princess Margaret but told in 100 tiny delicious chunks. Very clever and very amusing

    Also “ME” the autobiography of Elton John is lol funny and absolute genius
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,978
    edited January 17
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,018
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    I don't think 'especially the tanks' is right. Unless you want to say that the US and the UK (and France and Italy who still haven't sent any I believe) were also oddly reticent to send tanks.
    The difference is there were a load of spare Leos that could be sent, in various hands, and the Germans seemed oddly reticent to authorise it until we released our fairly token Challenger 2 donation. In our case, we really don't have many MBTs to spare.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    Leon said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
    This pettiness and meanness of spirit helps keeps republican support low, so happy for them to keep digging to be honest.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU condemns Germany for pledging their unilateral support for Ukraine, and not going through the EU mechanisms.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/ukraine-russia-war-live-eu-germany-aid/

    Double whammy of fake news shirly? I've been told repeatedly on here that a) EU countries are irredeemably bound by the heavy hand of the EU and b) Germany is a particular laggard in support for Ukraine.
    Somewhere in between Germany being a laggard while offering 5,000 used helmets when people on here were criticising Germany, and when Germany pulled its finger out of its arsenal to start usefully supplying Ukraine, which people on here acknowledged and congratulated them for, this happened:

    "Germany’s “deeply ashamed” vice-chancellor has told Volodymyr Zelensky he is sorry that Berlin took so long to send weapons to Ukraine.

    Robert Habeck, who is Olaf Scholz’s deputy, made a surprise visit to Kyiv on Monday, where he made a grovelling face-to-face apology to the president of Ukraine.

    The Green politician said the two men had met in 2021, before Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and that Mr Zelensky had explained the threat of war was real.

    Mr Habeck said: “At that time we started the debate in Germany that we should support Ukraine with weapons.

    “Germany was not willing or able to do that at that time. We have changed our position but it took too long and it was too late.”

    Mr Habeck appeared to make a veiled criticism of Mr Scholz, Germany’s centre-Left chancellor, who has faced accusations of dithering over sending weapons to Kyiv.

    “I think not all of the German politicians would say the same but I feel deeply ashamed. It was far too late,” he said in a sign of possible divides among the coalition."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/04/germany-ashamed-berlin-took-long-send-ukraine-weapons/

    Maybe the repeating people on here had a very good point
    That was exactly the point: for a period after the war started, Germany was oddly reticent to send some weapons, especially the tanks, and blocked others from doing so. I can understand this (the echoes of WW2), but that excuse only stretches so far. Since they decided to send Leos, and allow other countries to send them, they've done much better. I, and others on here, have openly acknowledged this.

    Now they need to send some Taurus missiles. If they haven't already...
    I don't think 'especially the tanks' is right. Unless you want to say that the US and the UK (and France and Italy who still haven't sent any I believe) were also oddly reticent to send tanks.
    The difference is there were a load of spare Leos that could be sent, in various hands, and the Germans seemed oddly reticent to authorise it until we released our fairly token Challenger 2 donation. In our case, we really don't have many MBTs to spare.
    Tanks have proven pretty ineffective in Ukraine on all sides. Too easy and vulnerable a target.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,686

    Off topic: So, is Macron going to do anything personally to increase births in France? (At the very least, he could contribute to a sperm bank.)

    He and his wife do have a dog.

    France has substantial tax breaks for those with a big family. He could increase those.
    Aiui the main point is that French families can pool unused income tax allowances. Our children have a £12,570 income tax allowance but if they do not use it because the lazy gits prefer to be at school, tough.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,978

    Russia hacked ex-MI6 chief’s emails – what they reveal is more Dad’s Army than deep state
    A Russian hacking group that published emails of ex-MI6 chief Richard Dearlove claimed to have uncovered a conspiracy, but it was more Dad’s Army than the ‘deep state’

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366565960/Russia-hacked-ex-MI6-chiefs-emails-what-they-reveal-is-more-Dads-Army-than-deep-state

    A quite remarkable story from everyone's favourite investigative rag.

    Puts me in mind of Jimmy's Secret Army:

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,150

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    We need to get ready for King Harry and Queen Meghan. .
    Unhappy is the website whose moderator is a troll.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,579

    Leon said:

    This really doesn’t sound good. And it sounds like they weren’t quite expecting it

    “The Princess of Wales wishes to apologise to all those concerned for the fact that she has to postpone her upcoming engagements. She looks forward to reinstating as many as possible, as soon as possible.”

    There will now be no international travel for the prince and princess in the coming months.

    The Prince of Wales is expected to postpone a number of his engagements as he supports their three children, and it is understood he will not undertake official duties while his wife is in hospital or during the immediate period after her return home.”

    Guardian

    Hmm. I will not speculate in further detail but that’s not nice to read

    BBC reporting that the Palace have confirmed not cancer related. I find that a little ghoulish for them to have to confirm but I suppose they were worried people would jump to conclusions.
    You start to wonder whether there’s a jinx on that title…
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Leon said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
    This pettiness and meanness of spirit helps keeps republican support low, so happy for them to keep digging to be honest.
    There’s a weird new crossover between the maddest FBPE-ers and royalty-haters, I’ve noticed. And they share the same self defeating, petulant bitterness

    As you say, it’s not a good look
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,089
    Foxy said:

    Russia hacked ex-MI6 chief’s emails – what they reveal is more Dad’s Army than deep state
    A Russian hacking group that published emails of ex-MI6 chief Richard Dearlove claimed to have uncovered a conspiracy, but it was more Dad’s Army than the ‘deep state’

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366565960/Russia-hacked-ex-MI6-chiefs-emails-what-they-reveal-is-more-Dads-Army-than-deep-state

    A quite remarkable story from everyone's favourite investigative rag.

    Puts me in mind of Jimmy's Secret Army:

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
    Interested that they wanted Nature to be surveilled because covid. I wonder how they'd have made sense of 98%, no 99.5%, of the content?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
    That’s sad. However I’ve also been there, it it’s any help? I’ve gone a year or two without really reading a book - apart from crap I had to read for work - and then it has suddenly reappeared, and it is again a great pleasure

    I’m reading a lot at the moment - I read kindle and e books on the road; I listen to audiobooks when my hands are full; I read paper books last thing at night when I need to calm down. And I do feel mentally better for it. Nourished

    I hope the habit returns for you. Maybe try a new genre? Something entirely out of the ordinary?
    I bought a couple of books last week that I am looking forward to reading; Good Pop, Bad Pop by Jarvis Cocker and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. Only problem is I’ve about eighty others I’ve bought in the last few years to get through first.
    I can recommend Ma’am Darling by Craig Brown as an unusual book that brought me back to reading. It’s a waspish biography of Princess Margaret but told in 100 tiny delicious chunks. Very clever and very amusing

    Also “ME” the autobiography of Elton John is lol funny and absolute genius
    Seems a bit strange that a football manager would write a biography of a member of the royal family.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,579
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    That doesn’t stand up to even thirty seconds of analysis.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    Internet I suppose though I don’t spend anything like the time online as I did reading. Simplistically I used to be in love with reading and it was a great consolation to me, now I’m not and it isn’t.
    That’s sad. However I’ve also been there, it it’s any help? I’ve gone a year or two without really reading a book - apart from crap I had to read for work - and then it has suddenly reappeared, and it is again a great pleasure

    I’m reading a lot at the moment - I read kindle and e books on the road; I listen to audiobooks when my hands are full; I read paper books last thing at night when I need to calm down. And I do feel mentally better for it. Nourished

    I hope the habit returns for you. Maybe try a new genre? Something entirely out of the ordinary?
    I bought a couple of books last week that I am looking forward to reading; Good Pop, Bad Pop by Jarvis Cocker and The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. Only problem is I’ve about eighty others I’ve bought in the last few years to get through first.
    I can recommend Ma’am Darling by Craig Brown as an unusual book that brought me back to reading. It’s a waspish biography of Princess Margaret but told in 100 tiny delicious chunks. Very clever and very amusing

    Also “ME” the autobiography of Elton John is lol funny and absolute genius
    ‘ME’ was the last book I read I think. Yes, v enjoyable. I started reading Andrew Ridgeley’s
    book about him and George Michael last year but am still only about 50 pages in… I’m on here too much!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    We need to get ready for King Harry and Queen Meghan. .
    With a Republican PM about 1/10 too. Could be bye bye RF
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    To note, Tony Lloyd, MP for Rochdale and former Mayor of Gtr Manchester, has died.

    https://twitter.com/tony4rochdale/status/1747647516118561001
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    That doesn’t stand up to even thirty seconds of analysis.
    I refer you to the honourable @cookie who recently came up with the startling statistic that only 2% of the world lives north of the latitude of Manchester (or south of the equivalent). Apols if I’ve got some of the deets wrong but that was the thrust

    The population of the UK is abnormally large for a nation with our inclement climate. Its coz we were first to industrialise etc
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,978
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia hacked ex-MI6 chief’s emails – what they reveal is more Dad’s Army than deep state
    A Russian hacking group that published emails of ex-MI6 chief Richard Dearlove claimed to have uncovered a conspiracy, but it was more Dad’s Army than the ‘deep state’

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366565960/Russia-hacked-ex-MI6-chiefs-emails-what-they-reveal-is-more-Dads-Army-than-deep-state

    A quite remarkable story from everyone's favourite investigative rag.

    Puts me in mind of Jimmy's Secret Army:

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
    Interested that they wanted Nature to be surveilled because covid. I wonder how they'd have made sense of 98%, no 99.5%, of the content?
    Might actually learn something useful if they did!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229

    rcs1000 said:

    In other - equally likely - news, I will soon begin dating Margot Robbie with the approval of my wife.

    Are you not married to Margot Robbie then?

    Disappointed.
    Shhh. It's a secret, and @ydoethur mustn't know.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
    To you, clearly. Me? Nah. I wish her well, and Chaz, personally, but spare me all the drama. If they don't make it, there's enough spares to step in.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,089
    edited January 17
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    That doesn’t stand up to even thirty seconds of analysis.
    I refer you to the honourable @cookie who recently came up with the startling statistic that only 2% of the world lives north of the latitude of Manchester (or south of the equivalent). Apols if I’ve got some of the deets wrong but that was the thrust

    The population of the UK is abnormally large for a nation with our inclement climate. Its coz we were first to industrialise etc
    Er, no. Came before that. Isles of Britain and Ireland were very well populated in the mediaeval era. Becaujse the climate is very clement for the latitude. Gulf Stream and all that.

    But it doesn't change the basic point.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
    This pettiness and meanness of spirit helps keeps republican support low, so happy for them to keep digging to be honest.
    Petty? Mean spirited? Says the bloke who's going to wade through blood to stop a Labour government. How's that going?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    If the NHS wasn't influenced by striking unions, maybe everyone could get better outcomes, eh?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    edited January 17
    You’ll be pleased to know that the BBC have made a hard hitting programme about the Asian grooming gang scandal in Northern England. Will it make the same kind of impact as Alan Bates vs the Post Office & finally expose the truth?

    BBC3 Tonight

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001vfd7
  • Options
    .
    Mortimer said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    If the NHS wasn't influenced by striking unions, maybe everyone could get better outcomes, eh?
    Maybe. If the Tories hadn't been in charge for the last 13 years, it might be better, eh?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,217
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    Britain is an interesting case because in many respects our climate and weather are mild and boring but in one respect - our line of latitude - we are quite an outlier. The gulf stream means we don't pay the price for it except the one aspect it can't ameliorate - the amount of winter sunlight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm used to it - and it's not as bad in London as where I grew up - but when I'm in sunnier climes I do feel a little more vital and alive.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,217

    Leon said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    She’s our future queen, husband and mother to our future king. I get that republicans don’t like this - and fair enough - campaign to have royalty abolished. But pretending it doesn’t matter is absurd. She matters
    This pettiness and meanness of spirit helps keeps republican support low, so happy for them to keep digging to be honest.
    Petty? Mean spirited? Says the bloke who's going to wade through blood to stop a Labour government. How's that going?
    He's going to need a bigger boat.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,588
    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    Rwanda?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960

    .

    Mortimer said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    If the NHS wasn't influenced by striking unions, maybe everyone could get better outcomes, eh?
    Maybe. If the Tories hadn't been in charge for the last 13 years, it might be better, eh?
    At the moment we're just about a country with a health service attached.

    The longer the NHS goes on without reform, the more I fear we will just be a failing health service with the husk of a country attached.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    That doesn’t stand up to even thirty seconds of analysis.
    I refer you to the honourable @cookie who recently came up with the startling statistic that only 2% of the world lives north of the latitude of Manchester (or south of the equivalent). Apols if I’ve got some of the deets wrong but that was the thrust

    The population of the UK is abnormally large for a nation with our inclement climate. Its coz we were first to industrialise etc
    Errr, no.

    Britain does not have a climate that matches it's latitude, so that comparison is specious.

    It's also the case that islands are usually more populated than, say, deserts, plains, tundra, etc.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    rcs1000 said:

    In other - equally likely - news, I will soon begin dating Margot Robbie with the approval of my wife.

    Have you told her yet ?


    Margot, that is.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,588

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    My 77 year old Dad was in hospital recently for major heart surgery, and was sent home after five days. Granted they're in more of a rush to send a pleb home from hospital and free up the bed for someone else, but two weeks in hospital for someone in their early 40s is quite something.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    .

    Mortimer said:

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    If the NHS wasn't influenced by striking unions, maybe everyone could get better outcomes, eh?
    Maybe. If the Tories hadn't been in charge for the last 13 years, it might be better, eh?
    At the moment we're just about a country with a health service attached.

    The longer the NHS goes on without reform, the more I fear we will just be a failing health service with the husk of a country attached.
    Absolutely it needs reform, you'll get no argument from me on that. Spending more money on it doesn't improve it.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,140

    My word, now the King will attend hospital next week.

    What's the big deal? Up and down the land, countless families are facing similar and worse. If only the rest of the population could get the healthcare the royals are experiencing.
    True.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    Britain is an interesting case because in many respects our climate and weather are mild and boring but in one respect - our line of latitude - we are quite an outlier. The gulf stream means we don't pay the price for it except the one aspect it can't ameliorate - the amount of winter sunlight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm used to it - and it's not as bad in London as where I grew up - but when I'm in sunnier climes I do feel a little more vital and alive.
    I’m pretty sure I am an actual case of SAD. It’s taken me decades to accept it and understand it - and also decades to earn the money or employment where I can go to nice sunny places in the European winter, to realise the difference

    But there is no question. I feel more vital and alive in the sun, and much less depressive than I would be, enduring a British January and February

    My soul almost literally lightens when I step out into the soft summery warmth of a tropical evening
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
    My 77 year old Dad was in hospital recently for major heart surgery, and was sent home after five days. Granted they're in more of a rush to send a pleb home from hospital and free up the bed for someone else, but two weeks in hospital for someone in their early 40s is quite something.
    Yes. Especially a young mum who wants to be with her kids - who are at that adorable and enjoyable age, as well

    No mother would want that. This suggests to me it is a bit serious. Unfortunately
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,217
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    Britain is an interesting case because in many respects our climate and weather are mild and boring but in one respect - our line of latitude - we are quite an outlier. The gulf stream means we don't pay the price for it except the one aspect it can't ameliorate - the amount of winter sunlight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm used to it - and it's not as bad in London as where I grew up - but when I'm in sunnier climes I do feel a little more vital and alive.
    I’m pretty sure I am an actual case of SAD. It’s taken me decades to accept it and understand it - and also decades to earn the money or employment where I can go to nice sunny places in the European winter, to realise the difference

    But there is no question. I feel more vital and alive in the sun, and much less depressive than I would be, enduring a British January and February

    My soul almost literally lightens when I step out into the soft summery warmth of a tropical evening
    Yeah I know what you mean. I don't mind our light but I'd certainly prefer to be somewhere warmer. I do hope my wife and I can start to spend half the year in Sri Lanka once the kids have flown the nest.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    I think they’re beginning to enjoy the LOLs.

    The Rwandan govt has put out a clarification:

    Yolande Makolo, chief spokesperson, says Rwanda has "no obligation" to return any of the funds paid.

    But says that if no migrants come to Rwanda under the scheme and the UK requests a refund, "we will consider this request".

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1747642143944937932
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,533
    edited January 17
    One of the best (ie the only one I've read apart from Goalkeepers are Different) books "on" football out there.

    Absolutely brilliant: https://www.amazon.co.uk/BRING-ME-HEAD-RYAN-GIGGS/dp/1906994455
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,089
    Nigelb said:

    I think they’re beginning to enjoy the LOLs.

    The Rwandan govt has put out a clarification:

    Yolande Makolo, chief spokesperson, says Rwanda has "no obligation" to return any of the funds paid.

    But says that if no migrants come to Rwanda under the scheme and the UK requests a refund, "we will consider this request".

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1747642143944937932

    I wonder how much the processing fee is?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester

    That's not completely convincing.

    Since we came originally from a wet, cold, foggy environment at the start of our evolution process, Manchester is *precisely* where you should be going. :smile:
    Leon's claiming to be a throwback to the proto-humans, perhaps ?
    I always wonder about bullshit like this. We have been evolving since the start (slime, then Cambrian explosion, then mammals, huge asteroid etc). Why should the conditions for a tiny fragment of that time be what conditions what we like now? Humans have been in Europe plenty long enough to have evolved to suit it (even if part of that is brains and the ability to make clothes).
    It's an interesting topic that I'm not sure has been dealt with in popular science writing yet. There's a lot out there that waxes lyrical about our evolutionary hunter gatherer origins without much evidence, but nothing I can think of that impartially examines the question of what we are, in our current bodies, best adapted to. What era? 30,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers? 6,000 to about 500 years ago when we had agrarian lifestyles and diets? The industrialised urbanised world? People have been dying from being ill suited to their environment right up to today. For example might populations be evolving in some industrial regions to be resistant to the effects of air pollution?

    I do, completely unscientifically, enjoy those episodes of WDYTYA where the celebrity declares they have an affinity with, say, the Irish coast or Scandinavia and then the researchers reveal that hey presto their great great great grandparents lived in a small cottage in Galway or were ladies in waiting at the Royal Danish court. There was an episode with Jeremy Irons which had probably the best example. hey traced ancestors back to the Irish seaside village where he has his holiday home. All sleight of hand of course, but if I were a celeb invited on to the programme (surely the best TV perk of being a celebrity, better than getting on Strictly or celebrity Masterchef) I'd be hoping to find my ancestors were Burgundian winemakers.
    Considering that neolithic human remains exist everywhere between the Arctic circle and the hottest deserts, it does seem that we are evolved to flexibly adapt to almost any environment. Same as rats.
    Nonetheless the concentration of populations suggests that most humans like to live in places where the weather isn’t totally shit 5-6 months of the year
    Britain is an interesting case because in many respects our climate and weather are mild and boring but in one respect - our line of latitude - we are quite an outlier. The gulf stream means we don't pay the price for it except the one aspect it can't ameliorate - the amount of winter sunlight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm used to it - and it's not as bad in London as where I grew up - but when I'm in sunnier climes I do feel a little more vital and alive.
    I’m pretty sure I am an actual case of SAD. It’s taken me decades to accept it and understand it - and also decades to earn the money or employment where I can go to nice sunny places in the European winter, to realise the difference

    But there is no question. I feel more vital and alive in the sun, and much less depressive than I would be, enduring a British January and February

    My soul almost literally lightens when I step out into the soft summery warmth of a tropical evening
    Severely Annoying Dude?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    QED: the ages of the royal kids. Prince George, 10, Princess Charlotte, 8, and Prince Louis, 5, as of December 2023

    That’s THE most rewarding age of children from the perspective of a parent. The kids are fun, lively, amusing, talkative. Endlessly curious and interesting. Yes also hard work but crucial work - plus Kate has all the staff she needs

    No mother would willingly be separated from kids that age for TWO WEEKS unless it was desperately necessary
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,533
    Didn't the Princess of Wales have very bad stomach trouble and was sent to bed for weeks prior to her giving birth each time. No idea what that means or if it's related.
This discussion has been closed.