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I hope Nadine Dorries is right – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Dura_Ace said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.

    By the traditional method of fisting letters up Brady's shitpipe or by Big Rish just jacking in?

    Is either very likely?
    I am glad you said "in" and not "off"
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited January 17
    There could be an exciting market when the next Conservative Prime Minister is appointed. Depending on the scenarios, I can see arguments for any.

    * Before GE 2024 (Sunak falls before the GE)
    * Other 2024 (Unlikely, if Sunak wins the GE he stays as PM.)
    * 2026 (minority Labour Government falls early)
    * 2029 (one term Labour Government)
    * 2033-34 (two term Labour Government)
    * 2036-39 (scenario that resembles 2010-2024, New Labour or Thatcher)
    * No Tory PM before 2040 (Conservatives replaced by Right of Centre party)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.

    By the traditional method of fisting letters up Brady's shitpipe or by Big Rish just jacking in?

    Is either very likely?
    I am glad you said "in" and not "off"
    He can't as he has misplaced the tweezers.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Much more likely is that the Tories will remould/rebrand as a hard right movement, I am sorry to say. The trajectory is already clear.

    Trajectories do not hold forever. We shouldn't confuse projection with predictions. After all, Labour was on a steadily leftwards trajectory from about 2005-19 - until it then wasn't. However, I do expect the Tories to continue rightwards on social issues (but not economic ones other than being in favour of 'cutting tax'), for the next 2-3 years at a minimum. Thereafter, who knows? A lot will turn on what Farage and Reform UK want to do, and whether Labour introduces PR (which they won't in a first term unless they seriously underperform and need the Lib Dems, but might well in a second one).
    Why would Labour introduce PR? Stramer opposes it, as does much of the Labour high command and most of its grandees. Given FPP is advantageous to the party, hard to see why it would abolish it!
    Labour conference supports PR; that may tell in time. There's also a belief on the left that PR would benefit the 'progressive cause'. This is pretty wishful thinking, IMO, but it *is* the thinking among many who happily add up Lab+LD+Grn as if they're all shades of the same movement, and who also dismiss the extent to which it would stress both Labour and the Tories, to the benefit of more radical movements (or perhaps not in the case of the Tories, if they fall to a Faragite reverse-takeover).

    FPTP is only beneficial to Labour in the sense that it usually gives them more seats than their share 'deserves'. It's not beneficial in the sense of delivering power - only one Labour leader has won a general election in almost half a century and only two in the last three-quarters. It's given them only five workable majorities in the last twenty elections.
    Labour conference supports lots of things the PLP have little interest in. Not Happening Event IMO.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Jonathan said:

    There could be an exciting market when the next Conservative Prime Minister is appointed. Depending on the scenarios, I can see arguments for any.

    * Before GE 2024 (Sunak falls before the GE)
    * Other 2024 (Unlikely, if Sunak wins the GE he stays as PM.)
    * 2026 (minority Labour Government falls early)
    * 2029 (one term Labour Government)
    * 2033-34 (two term Labour Government)
    * 2036-39 (scenario that resembles 2010-2024, New Labour or Thatcher)
    * No Tory PM before 2040 (Conservatives replaced by Right of Centre party)

    The limitation of this market is the likely long wait to get the answer.
  • On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    algarkirk said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    It is not directly money related. Children's books for all ages by the million are available for tiny sums - pence and often free - at charity shops, outside shops, school fetes and so on. As always the culture beats both strategy and cash.

    There are poorer people with a plethora of books. Rich folks with none at all.
    A packet of cigarettes costs more than most paperbacks these days.
    Between £10 and £16 for 20. 20 Embassy at Tesco is £15.85. About 40p when I gave up. By contrast their whisky, drinkable, starts at about £14.

    The cost of one of each buys you a library for all ages at a school fete/charity shop/coffee morning.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Jonathan said:

    There could be an exciting market when the next Conservative Prime Minister is appointed. Depending on the scenarios, I can see arguments for any.

    * Before GE 2024 (Sunak falls before the GE)
    * Other 2024 (Unlikely, if Sunak wins the GE he stays as PM.)
    * 2026 (minority Labour Government falls early)
    * 2029 (one term Labour Government)
    * 2033-34 (two term Labour Government)
    * 2036-39 (scenario that resembles 2010-2024, New Labour or Thatcher)
    * No Tory PM before 2040 (Conservatives replaced by Right of Centre party)

    The limitation of this market is the likely long wait to get the answer.
    A trading bet perhaps? Some people might think it just days away.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    People said that with Truss.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    Much more likely is that the Tories will remould/rebrand as a hard right movement, I am sorry to say. The trajectory is already clear.

    Trajectories do not hold forever. We shouldn't confuse projection with predictions. After all, Labour was on a steadily leftwards trajectory from about 2005-19 - until it then wasn't. However, I do expect the Tories to continue rightwards on social issues (but not economic ones other than being in favour of 'cutting tax'), for the next 2-3 years at a minimum. Thereafter, who knows? A lot will turn on what Farage and Reform UK want to do, and whether Labour introduces PR (which they won't in a first term unless they seriously underperform and need the Lib Dems, but might well in a second one).
    Why would Labour introduce PR? Stramer opposes it, as does much of the Labour high command and most of its grandees. Given FPP is advantageous to the party, hard to see why it would abolish it!
    Labour conference supports PR; that may tell in time. There's also a belief on the left that PR would benefit the 'progressive cause'. This is pretty wishful thinking, IMO, but it *is* the thinking among many who happily add up Lab+LD+Grn as if they're all shades of the same movement, and who also dismiss the extent to which it would stress both Labour and the Tories, to the benefit of more radical movements (or perhaps not in the case of the Tories, if they fall to a Faragite reverse-takeover).

    FPTP is only beneficial to Labour in the sense that it usually gives them more seats than their share 'deserves'. It's not beneficial in the sense of delivering power - only one Labour leader has won a general election in almost half a century and only two in the last three-quarters. It's given them only five workable majorities in the last twenty elections.

    PR would enable an effective Labour split. I think a lot of people on the broader left and inside Labour quite like that idea. I suspect that PR will also get a lot more popular on the right for similar reasons.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,646
    Is there a chance that a rape trial is delayed in order to fast-track a successful asylum seeker application?

    I thought I knew all the potential pitfalls of the Rwanda policy; didn't anticipate this one!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited January 17

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 17
    Eabhal said:

    Is there a chance that a rape trial is delayed in order to fast-track a successful asylum seeker application?

    I thought I knew all the potential pitfalls of the Rwanda policy; didn't anticipate this one!

    How can they tell with all the delays?

    B ut HMG want 25 courts to be devoted solely to marketing free* one-way tickets. Or so it seems.

    *To the winners. Not the public.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Can't renounce peerage, can he, anyway? So why bother with being elected a MP?
  • Jonathan said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    People said that with Truss.
    But Sunak has no plan to trash the economy.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,776
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    A couple of years ago I went on holiday for a week, switched off the phone and the iPad completely, bringing a couple of books to read on the beach.

    I can still remember much of the contents of those books, in a way that I wouldn’t have remembered reading a few thousand words on the usual device.
    Proper books all the way for me. I don't own a tablet and wouldn't know how to read a book on it even if I wanted to. Lovely to have shelves filled with books, like a room full of old friends!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Much more likely is that the Tories will remould/rebrand as a hard right movement, I am sorry to say. The trajectory is already clear.

    Trajectories do not hold forever. We shouldn't confuse projection with predictions. After all, Labour was on a steadily leftwards trajectory from about 2005-19 - until it then wasn't. However, I do expect the Tories to continue rightwards on social issues (but not economic ones other than being in favour of 'cutting tax'), for the next 2-3 years at a minimum. Thereafter, who knows? A lot will turn on what Farage and Reform UK want to do, and whether Labour introduces PR (which they won't in a first term unless they seriously underperform and need the Lib Dems, but might well in a second one).
    Why would Labour introduce PR? Stramer opposes it, as does much of the Labour high command and most of its grandees. Given FPP is advantageous to the party, hard to see why it would abolish it!
    Labour conference supports PR; that may tell in time. There's also a belief on the left that PR would benefit the 'progressive cause'. This is pretty wishful thinking, IMO, but it *is* the thinking among many who happily add up Lab+LD+Grn as if they're all shades of the same movement, and who also dismiss the extent to which it would stress both Labour and the Tories, to the benefit of more radical movements (or perhaps not in the case of the Tories, if they fall to a Faragite reverse-takeover).

    FPTP is only beneficial to Labour in the sense that it usually gives them more seats than their share 'deserves'. It's not beneficial in the sense of delivering power - only one Labour leader has won a general election in almost half a century and only two in the last three-quarters. It's given them only five workable majorities in the last twenty elections.
    Labour conference supports lots of things the PLP have little interest in. Not Happening Event IMO.
    Consider ordinary, not wicked, self interest. If you are currently an MP of any party there is only one change which is in your rational interest, and that is a change which has two elements: The first is that it increases the likelihood of you personally winning next time in demographic terms, and secondly - and critically - guarantees that you and not someone else will be the candidate.

    So in almost every case any change at all is against the interest of virtually all MPs. Bet accordingly.
  • On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    A few things:

    1. He is a prominent Remainer (which is why he knows he would need a Leaver as Deputy) and would be better positioned to ward off the LD threat in the Blue Wall seats.

    2. He has a reasonably competent / decent track record and one that - crucially, unlike Rishi - has been long. He therefore is probably better suited (and I would imagine is not exactly Mr Charisma but less awkward than Sunak).

    3. It is not just Hunt alone that is key but the combination, someone who Blue Wall / Remainer Tories would back and one who, Red Wall / Leavers would back.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hard to see Tory MPs and members electing the effective leader of the Remain campaign in 2016 if Sunak loses the next GE. Most likely they would pick a Leaver from the Right

    I think this is right, and a Cam coronation would be enormously divisive within the party. It should also be recalled that he is viewed generally very unfavourably and of course brings a lot of baggage.

    The populists will likely find themselves in the ascendancy when we next have a Con leadership election, though frankly a lot will depend on who does and does not retain their seat. A fair few of the gobbier populists are likely to be booted.

    For me Braverman is probably the most likely winner, not least because Fareham is as safe as they come. Badenoch is also safe, but I suspect becoming tainted as a Sunakite.

    Robert Jenrick looks value to me as well - 100/1 at Hill’s!
    The Tories have been around for a long time, but it's certainly not impossible to go from winning an election to being the third party in a short space of time. 16 years for the Liberals, a century ago.

    I'm sure there are going to be some huge challenges in the next 5-10 years. I wonder how well the party that is currently staking everything on the Rwanda gimmick will respond to those challenges.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Boris is done. He no doubt retains some support in pockets of the country, but he does not have Trump’s power over his party or a significant chunk of the electorate, for the very reason that the event that caused him to swiftly lose popularity was the lockdown parties, and most people, left or right, were livid at that. It wasn’t a “brave hero Boris brought down by the MSM/the deep state” narrative, certainly not among meaningful segments of the electorate.
  • On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    PB seems much enamoured of the idea of caretaker leaders than they actually occur in real life. The strategy you propose is tantamount to admitting defeat at the general election. The party has to at least pretend that they have a plan for the future.
    Do you not think most Tories believe they are now heading for a defeat and therefore are now looking at limiting the downside?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
    I agree this is far fetched, but there is no such thing as a rule which cannot be changed. Internal Tory rules, as being those of a registered political party, may be governed by statute to some extent (no idea) but all rules/laws have procedures for changing them lawfully.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Liz Truss's philosophy in a nutshell.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    LOL. The whipping operation has been far from good this whole parliament. I suspect partly institutional - how many Tory MPs were elected in the 1987 parliament, the last with a decent majority? Probably in the tens. Have any of these been involved in the whips office? Not that I know of.

    Accidental loss is far more likely than this comment credits.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    A couple of years ago I went on holiday for a week, switched off the phone and the iPad completely, bringing a couple of books to read on the beach.

    I can still remember much of the contents of those books, in a way that I wouldn’t have remembered reading a few thousand words on the usual device.
    Proper books all the way for me. I don't own a tablet and wouldn't know how to read a book on it even if I wanted to. Lovely to have shelves filled with books, like a room full of old friends!
    https://www.gutenberg.org/

    lots of old, free stuff you can read on your phone...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Scott_xP said:

    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.

    Kagame as an Arsenal fan, he will need to show much more patience than this in wait for a trophy 🤭
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
    I am sure that the Tories can find a way if they want to. They are pretty good at bending the rules anyway and Boris (and his supporters) have zero shame.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    PB seems much enamoured of the idea of caretaker leaders than they actually occur in real life. The strategy you propose is tantamount to admitting defeat at the general election. The party has to at least pretend that they have a plan for the future.
    Do you not think most Tories believe they are now heading for a defeat and therefore are now looking at limiting the downside?
    I agree that most Tories believe they are now heading for a defeat, but the way to limit the downside is not to go into the election saying, “we’re sure to lose”.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    I suspect that good old-fashioned Tories need to see what has happened in their own party, what happened in France, and what is happening in the US and realise that traditional right-of-centre, conservative politics is doomed for the time being.
  • I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,877
    Rishi Sunak snubs Boris Johnson and Liz Truss over No. 10 staircase portraits
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1856643/Boris-Johnson-Liz-Truss-portraits

    The portraits are there but the Express seems upset there was no unveiling ceremony.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited January 17

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm 100% certain now that Keir Starmer will be PM after the next election, because even a lot of Tories have had enough of the party after 14 years. But it could still be difficult for Lab to win a working majority for various reasons, one of which is the new boundaries.

    The assumption that the Tories will benefit from the boundary changes is weakened by the scaleof apparent change in voting intention since the last election.

    The only thing that can help the Tories in many seats will be a split opposition.
    The tactical voting battles will be more complex with boundary changes. It’ll be harder for voters to work out who the main challenger is in many cases.

    Given the importance of incumbency and past second places to the Lib Dems you’d think this will probably hinder their chances. The one counter to this being that in areas where Labour were second in the old seats last time but with no record on the new one, and Lib Dems are strong on the local council in those wards, tgis potentially helps with the bar charts.
    That is where I think Carol Vorderman comes in - I think her telling people who to vote for will ensure a fair few votes end up going in the direction she suggests.
    Really, apart from a few on twitter/social media who hang on her every word and were not likely to vote Tory anyway, will it really make a difference. She needs to influence people who are not receptive to her message and she comes over as somewhat unhinged in her posts.

    I cannot see it.
    She may come over as unhinged, but that isn't necessarily a problem, as large parts of the electorate are as unhinged. It is a matter of directing their anger at the real elite rather than some made up confection.
    "... as large parts of the electorate are as unhinged. "

    This sort of comment amuses me. The person who says it always, of course, puts themselves on the 'unhinged' side. :)
    Incoherent rage is a common political feeling at present, and many have political views that don't fit neatly into boxes, including me. Eclectic might be a polite term for it. An interesting article here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/17/british-politics-chaos-red-wall-voters-world

    Well worth a read. That's one of the best, most concise summaries of the complexities of current political views that I've seen. It also points to how hard it is these days to predict individuals', let along groups', voting behaviour. Superb.
    Indeed. Peoples politics may be assessed using a multi-axis approach. It's almost as if somebody wrote an article about it: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/07/classification/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Jonathan said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    People said that with Truss.
    But Sunak has no plan to trash the economy.
    Today’s inflation rise is being attributed to inherent vice in Sunak’s plan to ban cigarettes. That’s the thing with Sunak - you may say he had no plan to do such and such, but such and such seems to happen.

    The truth is, as the history books will state, Sunak’s record is the man that borrowed to record levels, the man that taxed to historically high levels, the man that handed billions away to fraudsters, lost billions through incompetence, and presided over fast lane sleaze.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    You got any snow yet down there in North Wales Big G?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    Jonathan said:

    I suspect that good old-fashioned Tories need to see what has happened in their own party, what happened in France, and what is happening in the US and realise that traditional right-of-centre, conservative politics is doomed for the time being.

    Macron (for example) doesn't seem doomed. The issue is more about a suitable successor.

    The biggest problem is understanding the difference between the question and the answer.

    The "Populists" have a number of grievances. Which actually exist. Their answers are rubbish. But that isn't the fault of the questions.

    If you want to win, come up with an answer to those question that works better. Rather than denying the question.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    I'm sorry to hear that, sending love to you and your family and the successful resolution of these health problems.
    Best wishes to all.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
    I am sure that the Tories can find a way if they want to. They are pretty good at bending the rules anyway and Boris (and his supporters) have zero shame.
    Well if the rules say "member of Parliament" rather than "member of the House of Commons" then that can be interpreted two ways. Members of the House of Lords are of course members of Parliament.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Jonathan said:

    I suspect that good old-fashioned Tories need to see what has happened in their own party, what happened in France, and what is happening in the US and realise that traditional right-of-centre, conservative politics is doomed for the time being.

    Macron (for example) doesn't seem doomed. The issue is more about a suitable successor.

    The biggest problem is understanding the difference between the question and the answer.

    The "Populists" have a number of grievances. Which actually exist. Their answers are rubbish. But that isn't the fault of the questions.

    If you want to win, come up with an answer to those question that works better. Rather than denying the question.
    Macron killed the French Tories and Labour, with a clever blend of pure centrist politics.
  • On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    You got any snow yet down there in North Wales Big G?
    We had some overnight the night before last but it soon cleared

    Unlike the mountains a few miles away, we tend to avoid snow being on the coast. Indeed in our case we live within 400 yards of the shoreline
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Scott_xP said:

    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.

    We are now at the point where Rwanda is worried that its association with the UK will damage its international standing.

    Are we getting to the point where Kagame will want to help the next PM rather than the outgoing? If he said " nah, this plan is dead", it would be helpful to Starmer.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Mortimer said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    LOL. The whipping operation has been far from good this whole parliament. I suspect partly institutional - how many Tory MPs were elected in the 1987 parliament, the last with a decent majority? Probably in the tens. Have any of these been involved in the whips office? Not that I know of.

    Accidental loss is far more likely than this comment credits.
    Let’s hope so! Because it would be flipping funny 🙂
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    Good luck @Big_G_NorthWales. Life really comes at you, when it comes at you.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Mr. NorthWales, hope he can make a full recovery.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    ClippP said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    Another Conservative success, Mr Mark. The Cummings-Gove reforms of education were particularly keen on not teaching children to read and even more, not to think.
    This was quite stark when we recently toured primary schools for our eldest.

    The most organised school proudly showed us that they sent kids home with two books each week: ‘here’s one on phonics, and here’s one they might actually want to read’. I paraphrase, but not by much.

    To be fair, I actually think the teaching of
    phonics is great, if done well. But it very clearly misses important aspects of kids early experiences of reading.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
    I am sure that the Tories can find a way if they want to. They are pretty good at bending the rules anyway and Boris (and his supporters) have zero shame.
    They'd need to change the constitution to make it bullet-proof, which is all-but impossible in the timeframe, particularly while Sunak is leader.

    Without that, any attempt to insert a non-MP onto the ballot would be vulnerable to a legal challenge (ironic given the Tories' aversion to that kind of thing but consistency rarely overrides interest with this current lot).
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    Much more likely is that the Tories will remould/rebrand as a hard right movement, I am sorry to say. The trajectory is already clear.

    Trajectories do not hold forever. We shouldn't confuse projection with predictions. After all, Labour was on a steadily leftwards trajectory from about 2005-19 - until it then wasn't. However, I do expect the Tories to continue rightwards on social issues (but not economic ones other than being in favour of 'cutting tax'), for the next 2-3 years at a minimum. Thereafter, who knows? A lot will turn on what Farage and Reform UK want to do, and whether Labour introduces PR (which they won't in a first term unless they seriously underperform and need the Lib Dems, but might well in a second one).
    Why would Labour introduce PR? Stramer opposes it, as does much of the Labour high command and most of its grandees. Given FPP is advantageous to the party, hard to see why it would abolish it!
    Labour conference supports PR; that may tell in time. There's also a belief on the left that PR would benefit the 'progressive cause'. This is pretty wishful thinking, IMO, but it *is* the thinking among many who happily add up Lab+LD+Grn as if they're all shades of the same movement, and who also dismiss the extent to which it would stress both Labour and the Tories, to the benefit of more radical movements (or perhaps not in the case of the Tories, if they fall to a Faragite reverse-takeover).

    FPTP is only beneficial to Labour in the sense that it usually gives them more seats than their share 'deserves'. It's not beneficial in the sense of delivering power - only one Labour leader has won a general election in almost half a century and only two in the last three-quarters. It's given them only five workable majorities in the last twenty elections.
    Labour conference supports lots of things the PLP have little interest in. Not Happening Event IMO.
    It could be a Happening Event if Labour loses its majority, which is quite possible in a 2028/9 election.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    edited January 17
    Since COVID, split-ticketing has taken off thanks to Trainline et al doing the hard work for customers. Yesterday's announcement by LNER on the pilot scheme which sees off-peak and super off-peak fares between London, Newcastle, Berwick and Edinburgh scrapped is likely to see lots of this kind of thing:

    https://twitter.com/RailUKForums/status/1747564269963530566

    If you are unsure if you want to travel at around 1800 or 1900 on this journey (London-Newcastle on Sat 17 Feb), LNER will only sell you an Anytime fare, at £192.80.

    Yes that is the only fare with any degree of flexibility on that Saturday.

    No Off Peak. No Semi Flex.


    https://twitter.com/seatsixtyone/status/1747597346060304575

    Easily solved by booking from Manors (one stop north of Newcastle) to London, a flexible & refundable Super Off-Peak costs £83.20 and can be used between Newcastle & London.
  • Jonathan said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    People said that with Truss.
    But Sunak has no plan to trash the economy.
    Today’s inflation rise is being attributed to inherent vice in Sunak’s plan to ban cigarettes. That’s the thing with Sunak - you may say he had no plan to do such and such, but such and such seems to happen.

    The truth is, as the history books will state, Sunak’s record is the man that borrowed to record levels, the man that taxed to historically high levels, the man that handed billions away to fraudsters, lost billions through incompetence, and presided over fast lane sleaze.
    Will the history books also state that he was regarded as a considerable improvement on his predecessors?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    edited January 17
    algarkirk said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic, FWIW my view is:

    1. Sunak goes within the next 2-3 months.
    2. Hunt will be PM with McVey * as his deputy with the express intention of getting the Conservatives through the GE.
    3. The next long-term leader will then be decided post-GE - probably not immediately but on a 2-3 year timescale

    * I say McVey because Hunt and McVey teamed up for the leadership post-Boris and the thesis is to unite the Blue and Red wall parts of the party. However, it is possible for example Badenoch would fit the pro-'Red Tory' wing.

    What would Hunt bring that Sunak doesn't, other than a load more confusion and delay? I see zero benefit to the Tories for them to swap one awkward managerial bod for another. If they do dump Sunak, it'll be for someone on the populist leader in the hope of recapturing the Spirit of Boris and banishing the Spectre of Reform.
    I am sure many look over the pond and think Boris is the answer. Not least Boris. Here's a scenario...

    Lord Boris of Downing Street becomes Tory leader and PM, immediately calls an election and stands in a safe seat. No need for a by-election since we are so close to the the wire now.

    It's important to note that in the 2020s the conventional rules of politics no longer apply.
    Why would he need a peerage at all then?

    But more relevantly, how does he become leader when the Conservative constitution bans non-MPs from being candidates? This isn't simply a matter of convention; is written in the rules and any attempt to ignore the rule would no doubt be challenged by those opposed to his return.
    I agree this is far fetched, but there is no such thing as a rule which cannot be changed. Internal Tory rules, as being those of a registered political party, may be governed by statute to some extent (no idea) but all rules/laws have procedures for changing them lawfully.
    Indeed. And the rules for changing the Tory constitution are particularly convoluted and impose a high threshold. To get that done *before* any leadership election in the next "2-3 months" - or even the next 5 months, to take it to after the local elections - is all but impossible. Particularly as Sunak has every reason to oppose the change.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,877
    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Jonathan said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    I agree and it is not only fanciful but plainly ridiculous to change the leader again - Sunak will fight the GE as PM
    People said that with Truss.
    But Sunak has no plan to trash the economy.
    Today’s inflation rise is being attributed to inherent vice in Sunak’s plan to ban cigarettes. That’s the thing with Sunak - you may say he had no plan to do such and such, but such and such seems to happen.

    The truth is, as the history books will state, Sunak’s record is the man that borrowed to record levels, the man that taxed to historically high levels, the man that handed billions away to fraudsters, lost billions through incompetence, and presided over fast lane sleaze.
    Will the history books also state that he was regarded as a considerable improvement on his predecessors?
    Let's just hope they don't also record he was a considerable improvement on his successors.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    @kateferguson4

    One Tory rebel tells me they only expect a hardcore of four or five MPs to actually vote against the Rwanda Bill tonight
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    China’s tactics will fail

    https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/01/17/2003812214
    Beijing’s retaliatory tactic of wooing former diplomatic ally Nauru away from Taipei after Taiwan elected Vice President William Lai (賴清德) of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) would only anger the nation, Taiwanese politicians and analysts said yesterday.

    Taiwan on Monday terminated diplomatic ties with Nauru with immediate effect after the Pacific island nation earlier in the day announced that it would recognize the People’s Republic of China.

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that Nauru’s government had asked for a large sum of money prior to the switch — a request that Taiwan refused...


    That's the other worrying thing about Trump.
    He can, quite obviously, be bought.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    That pays for half a century of Gary Lineker, so obviously money well spent!
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    edited January 17
    Mortimer said:

    On topic. It’s impossible for the Government to lose tonight, because if they feel they will lose, they will delay the vote, not proceed and lose, because defeat hurts government credibility and business far more than it would hurt the rebels.

    Sunak will lead the Conservatives into the general election. 100%. Not even a shred of doubt of that.

    LOL. The whipping operation has been far from good this whole parliament. I suspect partly institutional - how many Tory MPs were elected in the 1987 parliament, the last with a decent majority? Probably in the tens. Have any of these been involved in the whips office? Not that I know of.

    Accidental loss is far more likely than this comment credits.
    Five current Tory MPs have served continuously since the 1987 GE:

    Peter Bottomley (1975)
    Edward Leigh, Roger Gale, Bill Cash (1983)
    John Redwood (1987)

    David Davis was also first elected in 1987 but had that brief time out when he fought that odd by-election. There may be a small number of others who were elected in or before 1987 but haven't served continuously. Either way, it's almost certainly single figures.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.

    We are now at the point where Rwanda is worried that its association with the UK will damage its international standing.

    Are we getting to the point where Kagame will want to help the next PM rather than the outgoing? If he said " nah, this plan is dead", it would be helpful to Starmer.
    I think he just wants a new Lamborghini or three.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,134
    Scott_xP said:

    @kateferguson4

    One Tory rebel tells me they only expect a hardcore of four or five MPs to actually vote against the Rwanda Bill tonight

    I wonder how many will abstain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
    ...The price Axa will pay for the 16-acre site has not been disclosed, but the BBC was reportedly looking for £70m.
    It comes as the broadcaster has to find £500m in annual savings.
    "The sale of the Elstree Centre site is part of an ongoing review of the BBC's property portfolio in order to provide the best value for licence fee payers," chief financial officer Alan Dickson said.
    "As part of the sale, the EastEnders site has been secured on a long-term lease and Elstree will continue to be the home of Albert Square."
    The sale comes two years after the BBC finished rebuilding the EastEnders set at a cost of £87m, which was £27m over budget and four years late...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    A couple of years ago I went on holiday for a week, switched off the phone and the iPad completely, bringing a couple of books to read on the beach.

    I can still remember much of the contents of those books, in a way that I wouldn’t have remembered reading a few thousand words on the usual device.
    Proper books all the way for me. I don't own a tablet and wouldn't know how to read a book on it even if I wanted to. Lovely to have shelves filled with books, like a room full of old friends!
    https://www.gutenberg.org/

    lots of old, free stuff you can read on your phone...
    and more generally archive.org too.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,315

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    Sorry to hear that Big_G.

    Breathing issues seem to be one of the symptoms of whatever virus is currently sweeping the UK (probably a Covid variant? But could be something else) - they called the ambulance out for my aunt at the end of December & both my partner & I had a scary period of uncontrollable rapid breathing when we came down with it. Absolutely no fun at all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,776

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.

    We are now at the point where Rwanda is worried that its association with the UK will damage its international standing.

    Are we getting to the point where Kagame will want to help the next PM rather than the outgoing? If he said " nah, this plan is dead", it would be helpful to Starmer.
    I think he just wants a new Lamborghini or three.
    Why not, he's played a blinder so far. The Tories seem more than willing to chuck our money his way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited January 17

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm 100% certain now that Keir Starmer will be PM after the next election, because even a lot of Tories have had enough of the party after 14 years. But it could still be difficult for Lab to win a working majority for various reasons, one of which is the new boundaries.

    The assumption that the Tories will benefit from the boundary changes is weakened by the scaleof apparent change in voting intention since the last election.

    The only thing that can help the Tories in many seats will be a split opposition.
    The tactical voting battles will be more complex with boundary changes. It’ll be harder for voters to work out who the main challenger is in many cases.

    Given the importance of incumbency and past second places to the Lib Dems you’d think this will probably hinder their chances. The one counter to this being that in areas where Labour were second in the old seats last time but with no record on the new one, and Lib Dems are strong on the local council in those wards, tgis potentially helps with the bar charts.
    That is where I think Carol Vorderman comes in - I think her telling people who to vote for will ensure a fair few votes end up going in the direction she suggests.
    Really, apart from a few on twitter/social media who hang on her every word and were not likely to vote Tory anyway, will it really make a difference. She needs to influence people who are not receptive to her message and she comes over as somewhat unhinged in her posts.

    I cannot see it.
    She may come over as unhinged, but that isn't necessarily a problem, as large parts of the electorate are as unhinged. It is a matter of directing their anger at the real elite rather than some made up confection.
    "... as large parts of the electorate are as unhinged. "

    This sort of comment amuses me. The person who says it always, of course, puts themselves on the 'unhinged' side. :)
    Incoherent rage is a common political feeling at present, and many have political views that don't fit neatly into boxes, including me. Eclectic might be a polite term for it. An interesting article here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/17/british-politics-chaos-red-wall-voters-world

    Well worth a read. That's one of the best, most concise summaries of the complexities of current political views that I've seen. It also points to how hard it is these days to predict individuals', let along groups', voting behaviour. Superb.
    It’s interesting, and sets out some of the social trends that have been destabilising politics, but is not the entire story, surely, since it omits the role of the parties themselves. The Tories used to represent the better-off, better-educated, middle classes, Labour the converse, such that it used to be easy to ascribe most voters to the major party they leaned towards, the surprises being the occasional liberal. The tension that was always there for (many) poorer people to lean socially right and richer people socially left didn’t override a politics driven mainly by economic concerns.

    Somewhere along the line the Conservatives began chasing after pensioner votes at the expense of those of working age, giving social issues greater priority in their policy mix, losing interest in business (other than as a source of donations, and even then), championing a particularly harsh form of Brexit, and choosing a couple of leaders design to repel a slice of their traditional base. In the round, you’d say that they had become more ideological - except of course that Mrs T was ideological, and you could argue that the realignment started with her.

    At the same time, Labour sidelined much of its traditionally class-based and union-driven approach to economic policy, and began to champion more liberal social positions. Both of which date back to Blair, and reflect a decline in ideology. Such that when you look at the parties now, the Conservatives seem to be the ideologically-driven ones and Labour the economically pragmatic.
  • Phil said:

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    Sorry to hear that Big_G.

    Breathing issues seem to be one of the symptoms of whatever virus is currently sweeping the UK (probably a Covid variant? But could be something else) - they called the ambulance out for my aunt at the end of December & both my partner & I had a scary period of uncontrollable rapid breathing when we came down with it. Absolutely no fun at all.
    Thank you

    They are checking for blood clots and possible gallstones and lots of tests being done

    However, the junior doctors 3 day strike is in its final day and he has been told that due to this he will see the consultant surgeon once they have analysed all the data and made a decision on his treatment
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,557
    Phil said:

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    Sorry to hear that Big_G.

    Breathing issues seem to be one of the symptoms of whatever virus is currently sweeping the UK (probably a Covid variant? But could be something else) - they called the ambulance out for my aunt at the end of December & both my partner & I had a scary period of uncontrollable rapid breathing when we came down with it. Absolutely no fun at all.
    FWIW, a friend of a friend is an epidemiologist who says there is a variant of Covid doing the rounds that the existing testing kits don't pick up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,134
    edited January 17

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    I hope he comes through OK.

    I had one a little like that - I went in with breathing difficulties by private car for speed (asthma with an unusual trigger - inkjet printer fumes from lots of printing), and when I arrived they asked me to blow into a breath-strength tester, at which point I had a respiratory arrest. My friend who took me in said that at that point it suddenly became quite exciting.

    All the best.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Phil said:

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    Sorry to hear that Big_G.

    Breathing issues seem to be one of the symptoms of whatever virus is currently sweeping the UK (probably a Covid variant? But could be something else) - they called the ambulance out for my aunt at the end of December & both my partner & I had a scary period of uncontrollable rapid breathing when we came down with it. Absolutely no fun at all.
    I'm not sure that's Covid.
    A couple of my family were bedridden for a week with high temps and very nasty chest infections. It wasn't Covid (multiple tests), and the GP said it's rife locally.

    Whatever it is, all the best to Big_G and family.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,557
    Scott_xP said:

    @kateferguson4

    One Tory rebel tells me they only expect a hardcore of four or five MPs to actually vote against the Rwanda Bill tonight

    You'd think there were far more than that convinced their seat was lost - so go out in a blaze of glory....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    About time.
    His opponents ought to have worked out some time back that tearing lumps out of each other, while Trump snipes from the sidelines, helps only him.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,611
    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
  • Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    Trump was never going to debate her.

    I'd say the opposite; it's a sign of confidence from Haley. She feels she doesn't need to debate the also-rans now.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BenQuinn75
    💥 NEW:
    Rwanda’s president Paul Kagame warns there are limits to how long attempts to implement the deportation deal with Britain can 'drag on’

    .. adds that that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped entirely.

    We are now at the point where Rwanda is worried that its association with the UK will damage its international standing.

    Are we getting to the point where Kagame will want to help the next PM rather than the outgoing? If he said " nah, this plan is dead", it would be helpful to Starmer.
    I think he just wants a new Lamborghini or three.
    Arsenal could try to get a new striker out of it. £80M should do it.
    Starmer government giving Rwanda another £80M for doing absolutely nothing - and the £80M invested in Arsenal.

    Or would the new Tory HM Opposition, led by Braverman, not let any governmrnt get away with something so absurd with tax payers money as that! 😈
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,557

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    Trump is too busy with his various court cases...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Leon said:

    pm215 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT Dolly Parton has sent 5 million books to children in the UK. How do we have so many homes where a child doesn't have a single book?

    When she was head of a local primary, Mrs Capitano gave every kid an individually chosen book for Christmas. For several of them it was the only book they had at home. And this isn't even in a desperately poor area.
    I saw an article the other day that comprehension and retention is much better with physical books than with articles read on screen.

    I read it on screen (maybe The Atlantic?) so inevitably can't recall where...

    I make a point of only reading fiction on my kindle. If I want any other genre, I have to buy it in old skool paper format. Unfortunately, that often means Amazon but I have started looking in charity shops, where you find some absolute gems. I can't find Sled Driver anywhere though 😕
    I always read books on paper; I largely put this down to a forty decade habit being hard to break... Logically I know kindle and the like have a lot of practical advantages (especially for reading in a foreign language where the built in dictionary makes looking up the odd unknown word trivial), but I have too many fond memories of leafing through dead trees to want to change now :-)
    Out of deeply ingrained habit I still buy (& have bought for me) paper books, I just don't read them :(
    One of the minor tragedies of my life.
    Why don’t you read them?
    In my case, it's because I read about 20 pages a day and buy / are given about 20k pages a year.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    That's the Trump spin, so well done.

    In reality it's the only sensible decision, given an opponent who refuses to debate.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited January 17
    Nigelb said:

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
    ...The price Axa will pay for the 16-acre site has not been disclosed, but the BBC was reportedly looking for £70m.
    It comes as the broadcaster has to find £500m in annual savings.
    "The sale of the Elstree Centre site is part of an ongoing review of the BBC's property portfolio in order to provide the best value for licence fee payers," chief financial officer Alan Dickson said.
    "As part of the sale, the EastEnders site has been secured on a long-term lease and Elstree will continue to be the home of Albert Square."
    The sale comes two years after the BBC finished rebuilding the EastEnders set at a cost of £87m, which was £27m over budget and four years late...
    Ah, but when you allow for inflation in the intervening period that's... um... oh!... even worse than it appears at first glance :open_mouth:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    Trump was never going to debate her.

    I'd say the opposite; it's a sign of confidence from Haley. She feels she doesn't need to debate the also-rans now.
    Trump probably wont debate Biden either
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited January 17

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    Best of British to Big G, and indeed all PB-ers suffering through the miseries of the British winter

    And all best from a sultry wine bar in soft, languid, central Phnom Penh, 500 yards from the Royal Palace, where we sit outside and drink perfect lemongrass scented gin and tonics. Ahhhhhh. It is bliss. I cannot deny, and so cheap!

    I think the time is coming for me to move semi-permanently from the UK. Just can’t do the climate. My bones are too old. My aged ribs crave the ancestral warmth of the African plains (or Caucasian valleys)n where we evolved. Man was not meant to live in Manchester
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,611

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    Trump was never going to debate her.

    I'd say the opposite; it's a sign of confidence from Haley. She feels she doesn't need to debate the also-rans now.
    Trump probably wont debate Biden either
    I doubt that. If he didn't duck out of debating him in 2020 there's a lot less reason to now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Phil said:

    I know most know of my health issues since October which will see me having a pacemaker on 6th February but now to add to my family's worries my son in law is in A & E resus with serious breathing issues and my daughter and granddaughter at his bedside

    It never rains but it pours

    Sorry to hear that Big_G.

    Breathing issues seem to be one of the symptoms of whatever virus is currently sweeping the UK (probably a Covid variant? But could be something else) - they called the ambulance out for my aunt at the end of December & both my partner & I had a scary period of uncontrollable rapid breathing when we came down with it. Absolutely no fun at all.
    FWIW, a friend of a friend is an epidemiologist who says there is a variant of Covid doing the rounds that the existing testing kits don't pick up.
    That's an interesting suggestion - have you any links to evidence for that ?

    (Equally anecdotally, my mother had Covid (again) a couple of weeks back and it lit up the antigen test as strongly as the first time around.
    Definitely not the bug my wife had last week.)
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,421
    edited January 17
    Nigelb said:

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
    ...The price Axa will pay for the 16-acre site has not been disclosed, but the BBC was reportedly looking for £70m.
    It comes as the broadcaster has to find £500m in annual savings.
    "The sale of the Elstree Centre site is part of an ongoing review of the BBC's property portfolio in order to provide the best value for licence fee payers," chief financial officer Alan Dickson said.
    "As part of the sale, the EastEnders site has been secured on a long-term lease and Elstree will continue to be the home of Albert Square."
    The sale comes two years after the BBC finished rebuilding the EastEnders set at a cost of £87m, which was £27m over budget and four years late...
    It's only going to get worse, as people realise it isn't mandatory to watch TV as the BBC dictates. Other options are available.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
    ...The price Axa will pay for the 16-acre site has not been disclosed, but the BBC was reportedly looking for £70m.
    It comes as the broadcaster has to find £500m in annual savings.
    "The sale of the Elstree Centre site is part of an ongoing review of the BBC's property portfolio in order to provide the best value for licence fee payers," chief financial officer Alan Dickson said.
    "As part of the sale, the EastEnders site has been secured on a long-term lease and Elstree will continue to be the home of Albert Square."
    The sale comes two years after the BBC finished rebuilding the EastEnders set at a cost of £87m, which was £27m over budget and four years late...
    Ah, but when you allow for inflation in the intervening period that's... um... oh!... even worse than it appears at first glance :open_mouth:
    You can't make sensible long term plans when multi-year funding agreements are cut half way through, so it's not entirely the fault of management.

    But it does look pretty awful.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    Sandpit said:

    ABC New Hampshire debate off, after Haley pulled out because Trump wouldn’t commit.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/17/nikki-haley-demands-debate-trump-new-hampshire/

    That's a sign that her campaign is faltering. She must have hoped a strong second place in Iowa would force Trump into debating her head on.
    Trump was never going to debate her.

    I'd say the opposite; it's a sign of confidence from Haley. She feels she doesn't need to debate the also-rans now.
    Trump probably wont debate Biden either
    I think that was his original stance, but recently he has rowed back on it.

    I suspect he hopes it might be a platform for some Biden gaffes.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-68007571
    (two year old and dad found dead - father suspected to have had heart attack and two year old died from starvation* subsequently due to no one else around to look after him)

    This is absolutely horrendous from all angles. The poor boy.

    *given timings, may have been more dehydration - not that long between last contact and discovery; under two weeks. But maybe that is long enough for a two year old to starve - older child/adult would last much longer, I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited January 17
    On the whole digital vs print thing.
    Fairly small study, but interesting.

    Middle-schoolers’ reading and processing depth in response to digital and print media: An N400 study
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.30.553693v1
    We report the first use of ERP measures to identify text engagement differences when reading digitally or in print. Depth of semantic encoding is key for reading comprehension, and we predicted that deeper reading of expository texts would facilitate stronger associations with subsequently-presented related words, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to unrelated probe words and a graded attenuation of the N400 to related and moderately related words. In contrast, shallow reading would produce weaker associations between probe words and text passages, resulting in enhanced N400 responses to both moderately related and unrelated words, and an attenuated response to related words. Behavioral research has shown deeper semantic encoding of text from paper than from a screen. Hence, we predicted that the N400 would index deeper reading of text passages that were presented in print, and shallower reading of texts presented digitally.

    Middle-school students (n = 59) read passages in digital and print formats and high-density EEG was recorded while participants completed single-word semantic judgment tasks after each passage. Following digital text reading, the N400 response pattern anticipated for shallow reading was observed. Following print reading, the N400 response pattern expected for deeper reading was observed for related and unrelated words, although mean amplitude differences between related and moderately related probe words did not reach significance. These findings provide evidence of differences in brain responses to texts presented in print and digital media, including deeper semantic encoding for print than digital texts.


    If it bears out, another confounding factor for Leon's 'IQ is crashing' theory.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    BBC agrees to sell EastEnders set at Elstree to raise funds
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68004649

    Cash-strapped Auntie is selling off the family silver. Sale and lease back.

    Nu10kenomics.
    ...The price Axa will pay for the 16-acre site has not been disclosed, but the BBC was reportedly looking for £70m.
    It comes as the broadcaster has to find £500m in annual savings.
    "The sale of the Elstree Centre site is part of an ongoing review of the BBC's property portfolio in order to provide the best value for licence fee payers," chief financial officer Alan Dickson said.
    "As part of the sale, the EastEnders site has been secured on a long-term lease and Elstree will continue to be the home of Albert Square."
    The sale comes two years after the BBC finished rebuilding the EastEnders set at a cost of £87m, which was £27m over budget and four years late...
    Ah, but when you allow for inflation in the intervening period that's... um... oh!... even worse than it appears at first glance :open_mouth:
    You can't make sensible long term plans when multi-year funding agreements are cut half way through, so it's not entirely the fault of management.

    But it does look pretty awful.
    Yeah, more a highlighting of the daftness of the sudden cut in funding, forcing very sub-optimal decisions with long term costs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    That is concerning news about the Princess of Wales

    She’s young. Fit. Healthy. Three growing kids

    Two weeks in hospital is a LONG time for someone like that? Christ I hope it’s not something… grim

    Good luck to her
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Selebian said:

    Princess of Wales admitted to hospital for surgery and will return to duties around Easter

    I can't keep up with the Royals, given they've recently all changed title for the first time in my lifetime - that'll be Katherine, will it?

    ETA: And I don't like to repeat what others are saying rather than just liking relevant posts, but as I'm replying to you directly, I hope all goes well with your son in law and he is treated and home soon.
    Yes, it's Katherine. The Palace is always stupidly reticent with details but two weeks in hospital and 3 months recovering sounds pretty major.
This discussion has been closed.