To start an interesting conversation about a possible early election, which you haven't helped with. Stop being so grumpy.
You didn't say, "when do we think an early election might be?", you literally just asked "What's the earliest date for a general election?" and then answered it.
To start an interesting conversation about a possible early election, which you haven't helped with. Stop being so grumpy.
Assuming the Conservatives only have a partial death wish (I mean, an election campaign with a Christmas Truce... really?), Parliament resumes on Monday 8th January 2024. So say Thursday 11th plus 5 weeks... Takes us to Thursday 15th February.
So not quite a Valentine's Day Massacre for the Conservatives.
To start an interesting conversation about a possible early election, which you haven't helped with. Stop being so grumpy.
I think the answer to your question is dependent not so much on the minimum number of days notice (25 working days as per RobD), but on how soon might Sunak be prompted to push for an election, and what would be that prompt?
I cannot see losing the Rwanda bill as prompting Sunak to call a GE. Why on earth would he - on the basis of what platform? If the Rwanda bill fails to pass it's because the Tories are disunited, so he would be hard-pressed to call a 'back Rwanda' election.
On the air is obviously wrong, off the air for a news presenter is something I would probably also object to as he's supposed to be impartial. It's quite different to Lineker who isn't paid for his views on politics.
To start an interesting conversation about a possible early election, which you haven't helped with. Stop being so grumpy.
Assuming the Conservatives only have a partial death wish (I mean, an election campaign with a Christmas Truce... really?), Parliament resumes on Monday 8th January 2024. So say Thursday 11th plus 5 weeks... Takes us to Thursday 15th February.
So not quite a Valentine's Day Massacre for the Conservatives.
Please no! Not that week!
I am taking Mrs P. on a romantic trip to Paris - I don't think me sitting up all night watching the GE results was on the itinerary.
@matt_dathan NEW: A meeting of 40 right-wing MPs tonight agreed to vote against or abstain in tomorrow's Rwanda bill vote unless Rishi Sunak offers concessions.
They claim they have the numbers to defeat the government.
MPs included Braverman and Jenrick.
Surely Braverman, Jenrick and the ERG must go nuclear on this. If they can defenestrate Sunak that really isn't enough of itself. If we leave the ECHR, a Labour victory means Starmer can rejoin in a year. Surely something has to be done to prevent a Labour Government at all costs, by hook or by crook.
As frequently pointed out on here, instead of bigging up the relative improvement in boat numbers this year, he has focused on it as major issue and is now busily failing to deliver a solution. Supremely bad politics.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
As frequently pointed out on here, instead of bigging up the relative improvement in boat numbers this year, he has focused on it as major issue and is now busily failing to deliver a solution. Supremely bad politics.
He is legitimately bad at politics. I don't think we've had a recent PM as bad at it as him.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It was my Buddhist temple's Christmas Party on Saturday. It was pretty much like any other one. Less alcohol and meat, mind.
Curious to see the Johnsonian diehards and the Corbynites speaking almost with one voice. It's almost as though the past is an anchor trying to pull us back.
Deltapoll and Redfield & Wilton have gone in different directions this evening - for Deltapoll, it's their lowest Labour VI since March 2022. R&W are much more within their comfort zone with an 18-point Labour lead. There's no indication of the fall in Labour share going straight back to the Conservatives - it's being shared through all parties and perhaps none.
Interesting to hear Sunak's evidence at the Covid hearing today. I'm not interested in EOTHO as I am in the extent of fraudulent appropriation of Covid funds by individuals and organisations. It's clear billions were handed out often on the most rudimentary evidence of need and unfortunately the opportunity to get free money from the Government has proven too much for some. I've seen figures varying from £5 billion to £15 billion in terms of public money given out either in error or obtained via fraud. Let's hope someone asks the former Chancellor of the Exchequer about that.
And if frontline services had not got PPI, some would have been screeching about how the government had procurement so much in a bureaucracy they let people die.
There was a worldwide demand for goods *in a hurry*. 'Normal' processes would never fit the situation.
Was there waste? Certainly. Was there fraud? Some, perhaps. The legal eagles will sort that out. Did frontline services get PPI they would not otherwise have got? IMV yes.
The question is who you weigh those up. And I might suggest the way you weigh them up now is very different from how they would have been weighed up in April or May 2020.
This is such a false dichotomy.
We wasted oodles of money and *precious time* procuring PPE from people with no experience who never supplied nor could have supplied what we wanted. While actual suppliers got left out because they didn't know the right MP.
Yet look at what Labour were calling for at the time, with equally untried companies being named as potential sources. "Why haven't you tried them?"
"While actual suppliers got left out because they didn't know the right MP."
Source, please, as I haven't heard that. Remember, virtually every country in the world was after the *same* PPE.
It’s bullshit
We did deals with Molnlycke but the French seized the goods we had purchased
The US banned 3M from exporting their products.
There was some fairly awful behaviour, as countries turned very insular. The US, the French and the Germans all ripped up export orders at one point or another.
As far as I'm aware, the UK did not ban export of either PPE or vaccines. Which - I would hope - will payoff in the future. Companies want to manufacture in places which recognise contractual obligations.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
Usually Christmas cards. My experience of the In-Laws in Connecticut leads me to observe that it’s the proximity of Thanksgiving to Christmas that has led to the ubiquity of a “Holiday Season” in the US. We don’t do Thanksgiving (despite the maddeningly insane attempts of retailers here to get us “celebrating” Black Friday) so I think Christmas remains the ubiquitous term.
As frequently pointed out on here, instead of bigging up the relative improvement in boat numbers this year, he has focused on it as major issue and is now busily failing to deliver a solution. Supremely bad politics.
The hope is that the Conservative Wets have done the calculation and are making sure that there isn't a repeat of the first part of 2019... If this falls because of overreach on the right, the only fingerprints will be those of the ERG+.
The fear is that the Wets aren't called the Wets for nothing. (Was that jibe Maggie, or someone Maggie-adjacent?)
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Curious to see the Johnsonian diehards and the Corbynites speaking almost with one voice. It's almost as though the past is an anchor trying to pull us back.
Deltapoll and Redfield & Wilton have gone in different directions this evening - for Deltapoll, it's their lowest Labour VI since March 2022. R&W are much more within their comfort zone with an 18-point Labour lead. There's no indication of the fall in Labour share going straight back to the Conservatives - it's being shared through all parties and perhaps none.
Interesting to hear Sunak's evidence at the Covid hearing today. I'm not interested in EOTHO as I am in the extent of fraudulent appropriation of Covid funds by individuals and organisations. It's clear billions were handed out often on the most rudimentary evidence of need and unfortunately the opportunity to get free money from the Government has proven too much for some. I've seen figures varying from £5 billion to £15 billion in terms of public money given out either in error or obtained via fraud. Let's hope someone asks the former Chancellor of the Exchequer about that.
And if frontline services had not got PPI, some would have been screeching about how the government had procurement so much in a bureaucracy they let people die.
There was a worldwide demand for goods *in a hurry*. 'Normal' processes would never fit the situation.
Was there waste? Certainly. Was there fraud? Some, perhaps. The legal eagles will sort that out. Did frontline services get PPI they would not otherwise have got? IMV yes.
The question is who you weigh those up. And I might suggest the way you weigh them up now is very different from how they would have been weighed up in April or May 2020.
This is such a false dichotomy.
We wasted oodles of money and *precious time* procuring PPE from people with no experience who never supplied nor could have supplied what we wanted. While actual suppliers got left out because they didn't know the right MP.
Yet look at what Labour were calling for at the time, with equally untried companies being named as potential sources. "Why haven't you tried them?"
"While actual suppliers got left out because they didn't know the right MP."
Source, please, as I haven't heard that. Remember, virtually every country in the world was after the *same* PPE.
It’s bullshit
We did deals with Molnlycke but the French seized the goods we had purchased
The US banned 3M from exporting their products.
There was some fairly awful behaviour, as countries turned very insular. The US, the French and the Germans all ripped up export orders at one point or another.
As far as I'm aware, the UK did not ban export of either PPE or vaccines. Which - I would hope - will payoff in the future. Companies want to manufacture in places which recognise contractual obligations.
I think the EU going apeshit over U.K. vaccines was a defining moment in showing that the EU was not always the good guys in Brexit negotiations.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
Christmas cards.
For local festive decorations, it's hard to beat Dunbar. The lights are sponsored by local businesses, so instead of snowflakes and tress you get a taxicab, or plumbers.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
Why are some left-wingers so grumpy at the moment, despite being 20% ahead in the polls? I can only assume they still wish Corbyn was leader instead of Starmer.
Why are some left-wingers so grumpy at the moment, despite being 20% ahead in the polls? I can only assume they still wish Corbyn was leader instead of Starmer.
We're fed up of waiting, whilst watching the Tories continue to fail the arse-elbow identification test.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
Strong: withdraw it immediately upon being elected, dare the party to do something about it.
Weak: allow it to drag on, and withdraw it when forced.
I wonder what percentage chance Sunak and his advisors ascribed to the court case going their way. If we knew that, the behaviour would be easier to understand.
Garage says there's a vacuum at the centre right of politics? I prefer to think I have a vacuum cleaner in the centre left of my airing cupboard...
There's a a vacuum at the centre right of politics because he's sucked them all off to the far right.
There's an image to conjure with.
The BBC TV series Ghosts is pretty lightweight family viewing but does have a few sniggerable lines, in particular the idea that ghosts haunt this world until they are 'sucked-off' to the next one.
Why are some left-wingers so grumpy at the moment, despite being 20% ahead in the polls? I can only assume they still wish Corbyn was leader instead of Starmer.
As frequently pointed out on here, instead of bigging up the relative improvement in boat numbers this year, he has focused on it as major issue and is now busily failing to deliver a solution. Supremely bad politics.
He is legitimately bad at politics. I don't think we've had a recent PM as bad at it as him.
Starmer! So shit at politics he didn't even realise he was the Prime Minister until LoTo Sunak pointed it out to him at PMQs
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
Christmas cards.
For local festive decorations, it's hard to beat Dunbar. The lights are sponsored by local businesses, so instead of snowflakes and tress you get a taxicab, or plumbers.
Christmas in Canterbury is very picture postcard. When the puritans tried to abolish it a a riot descended into a City wide game of mob-football. If you go there today one of the “goals” (the Westgate Tower) is still there.
Why are some left-wingers so grumpy at the moment, despite being 20% ahead in the polls? I can only assume they still wish Corbyn was leader instead of Starmer.
The disease of the left is ideological purity. One caught by the right over Brexit mind.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
I think it was Henry VIII who originally banned Ye Olde Black Friday in 1538, only for it to reappear 470 years later.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It was my Buddhist temple's Christmas Party on Saturday. It was pretty much like any other one. Less alcohol and meat, mind.
@matt_dathan NEW: A meeting of 40 right-wing MPs tonight agreed to vote against or abstain in tomorrow's Rwanda bill vote unless Rishi Sunak offers concessions.
They claim they have the numbers to defeat the government.
MPs included Braverman and Jenrick.
Abstain means the Bill easily goes through . I would be flabbergasted if the government lost the vote .
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
I think it was Henry VIII who originally banned Ye Olde Black Friday in 1538, only for it to reappear 470 years later.
Indeed. As part of my degree I studied the famous Primark Riots of 1539. People were outraged they couldn’t get 2 for 1 Ruffs
@matt_dathan NEW: A meeting of 40 right-wing MPs tonight agreed to vote against or abstain in tomorrow's Rwanda bill vote unless Rishi Sunak offers concessions.
They claim they have the numbers to defeat the government.
MPs included Braverman and Jenrick.
Abstain means the Bill easily goes through . I would be flabbergasted if the government lost the vote .
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's Merry Christmas. None of this happy holiday stuff here.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
I think it was Henry VIII who originally banned Ye Olde Black Friday in 1538, only for it to reappear 470 years later.
Indeed. As part of my degree I studied the famous Primark Riots of 1539. People were outraged they couldn’t get 2 for 1 Ruffs
@matt_dathan NEW: A meeting of 40 right-wing MPs tonight agreed to vote against or abstain in tomorrow's Rwanda bill vote unless Rishi Sunak offers concessions.
They claim they have the numbers to defeat the government.
MPs included Braverman and Jenrick.
Abstain means the Bill easily goes through . I would be flabbergasted if the government lost the vote .
To avoid defeat in Tuesday’s parliamentary vote, Sunak will need to keep the rebellion below 56 abstentions or 28 votes against.
There does seem to be a discernible medium term trend downwards in Labour VI, even as Tory support bounces around the mid to high 20s. The absolute gaps remain big but the peaks of Labour support are much lower than they were. What is causing that?
I don't buy that it's the "not sealed the deal" phenomenon. Labour has as many (or as few) well known policies now as it had a year ago when it was touching 50% in the polls. And I can't see it being to do with Starmer support for Israel and apparent prevarication over Gaza. That's surely only an issue for a small minority of the Left, and we would expect to see Green VI rising if this were really a big driver.
I do wonder if it's actually a measure of some (very limited) success by the conservatives in getting bread and butter issues off the table and moving the news agenda back on to culture war and immigration. It might not be helping the Tories massively given all the internal chaos, but it's not notably harming their support either. Whereas for Labour I wonder if it's unhelpful.
I mentioned they could be losing support to Reform. How? Take your average disgruntled voter somewhere in the Red Wall who thinks the country's going to the dogs and the Tories deserve a kicking. A year or 6 months ago they might have argued that the country's going to the dogs because inflation is rampant, nobody's getting a decent pay rise, the roads are full of pot holes and it takes 6 months to get seen on the NHS. Now they might be saying the country's going to the dogs because the government has failed to stop the boats or control immigration. Before the obvious place to move your vote would be Labour. Now perhaps that's Reform.
Once a voter has shifted to Reform is it possible the Tories could then win them back rather than them slipping back to Labour? Possibly, if they can then make the next election about cultural issues rather than the pound in your pocket.
All this seasoned with just a touch of Labour not seeming to be any different on economic or public spending policy now.
I would say Labour needs the political weather to move back on to economy and (particularly) crumbling public services, and it needs to offer something for people to grab on to in this respect.
It could be somewhat similar to the months leading up to June 2010, when Conservative support began to slip.
Putting in Labour 37%, to 30% Conservative still gives Labour a majority of 50, because the Lib Dems only win a third of the seats they got in 2010.
37-30 is quite plausible...
However the next 33% has to go somewhere. If we give 4 percentage points to the SNP (which may be generous), that leaves a staggering 29% to split between Reform, the LibDems, Green and Other.
That would reflect the public not much liking either alternative.
That said, I suspect if could be more like 39/32, with both Reform and Greens going to Conservative and Labour respectively.
The electorate has been volatile since 2010, with Con/Lab getting 67% in 2010, 70% in 2015, 83% in 2017 and 78% in 2019, but likely dropping back in this coming election.
For chunks of the electorate SKS is simply more of the same policies weve had since 1997 irrespective of who is in office. If you were a loser in the globalisation push why would you vote for more ?
Globalisation didn't start for the UK in 1997.
It was a major inflection point though.
Remember that James Goldsmith's Euroscepticism was primarily in opposition to their turn towards global free trade which he saw as shattering the balance between capital and labour in the developed world.
Did he really. Workers of the world unite and listen to Jimmy Goldsmith.
Well if the politicians had listened, we might not have ended up with the wave of populism that you dislike so much.
Given migration is at a record high, but public concern about it is lower than before the EU referendum, I suspect populism is largely independent of *the facts*.
In other news, the frog has never been happier with the temperature of the water.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
I'm an atheist.
God doesn't exist.
Sad, but there you are. If he did exist, no way would he allow the shit to happen that happens in his name.
But do you know how much the concept of "Christmas Cards" bother me? Not a jot. This time of year is the approach to Christmas. I give my kids Christmas presents. Christmas exists. We should celebrate it.
I really don't understand why people want to change it to "Happy Holidays". That's wank, that is. It's Christmas time. And, for what it's worth, I wouldn't get upset if someone sent me a "Glorious Diwali" or "Splendid Chanukah" card, because - whether you believe in God or not - these festivals exist. And people believe them and celebrate them, and good for them.
@matt_dathan NEW: A meeting of 40 right-wing MPs tonight agreed to vote against or abstain in tomorrow's Rwanda bill vote unless Rishi Sunak offers concessions.
They claim they have the numbers to defeat the government.
MPs included Braverman and Jenrick.
Abstain means the Bill easily goes through . I would be flabbergasted if the government lost the vote .
To avoid defeat in Tuesday’s parliamentary vote, Sunak will need to keep the rebellion below 56 abstentions or 28 votes against.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's Merry Christmas. None of this happy holiday stuff here.
People vary - some institutions play safe and wish happy holidays, but in my experience most people (including Muslim friends) go with the flow and say happy Christmas. It's perhaps easier because most people aren't actually Christian in any serious sense of the word - we maybe go to church for a wedding or a funeral - so it's clear that we're mostly just enjoying the general spirit of the thing.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's Merry Christmas. None of this happy holiday stuff here.
People vary - some institutions play safe and wish happy holidays, but in my experience most people (including Muslim friends) go with the flow and say happy Christmas. It's perhaps easier because most people aren't actually Christian in any serious sense of the word - we maybe go to church for a wedding or a funeral - so it's clear that we're mostly just enjoying the general spirit of the thing.
As Jesus is considered a prophet of Mohammad, I wouldn’t expect Muslims to have an issue with Christmas. The ones I know are certainly ok with Christmas.
Aaron Rupar @atrupar · Dec 10 Al Gore on CNN on Trump: "Well, I saw the other day where he pledged to be a dictator on day one. And you kind of wonder what it will take for people to believe him when he tells us what he is"
Whenever I go away for a longish time, I STILL expect everything to have entirely changed when I return. The city in ruins. Britain invaded and conquered without my wise protection
I am simultaneously insulted and relieved when it is consistently revealed that the UK manages just fine without me
Whenever I go away for a longish time, I STILL expect everything to have entirely changed when I return. The city in ruins. Britain invaded and conquered without my wise protection
I am simultaneously insulted and relieved when it is consistently revealed that the UK manages just fine without me
You avoided the Elizabeth Line breaking down a few days ago.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
I think it was Henry VIII who originally banned Ye Olde Black Friday in 1538, only for it to reappear 470 years later.
Indeed. As part of my degree I studied the famous Primark Riots of 1539. People were outraged they couldn’t get 2 for 1 Ruffs
Were Iceland doing cod pieces then?
No, but a replica of The Great Seal was a hit seller.
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
And how does that help them either? A delayed defeat for him at their hands is not much good given there's little time left.
Aaron Rupar @atrupar · Dec 10 Al Gore on CNN on Trump: "Well, I saw the other day where he pledged to be a dictator on day one. And you kind of wonder what it will take for people to believe him when he tells us what he is"
I think plenty of his followers believe him. They just happen to like it. It's the tiny minority of what used to be establishment Republicans claiming it is no big deal that are fooling themselves.
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
And how does that help them either? A delayed defeat for him at their hands is not much good given there's little time left.
I’m still partly convinced that the government want to keep losing over Rwanda in order to have a reaction against the blob at the election. Now that’s bullish!t but it might be their plan.
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's Merry Christmas. None of this happy holiday stuff here.
The irony is that we call it Christmas and mostly don’t believe in it, and the Americans don’t call it Christmas but mostly do
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
Christmas hasn't become part of the culture wars here, thank God. I grew up in an atheist household celebrating Christmas. My wife's Buddhist family always made a big deal of it too. Left or right, religious or not, people are mostly happy to have an excuse to stay home and spend time with family at this time of year, have Christmas trees, send Christmas cards, eat, drink and be merry. Long may it last!
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
Win tomorrow and it's possible to kick things on to March and an election in May..
Out of curiosity: These Christmas cards that are being sent out in the UK: Are they Christmas cards, or "Holiday" cards, or does that depend on the party and/or sender?
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
It's still pretty much Christmas here, with Christmas trees, Christmas cards, we'll nearly all be sitting down to Christmas dinner on the 25th.
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
Ironically, Pre-Reformation, All Hallows Day on 1 November and its Eve (Halloween) on 31 October were a huge deal in England. Being reintroduced by our former colony it seems.
I think it was Henry VIII who originally banned Ye Olde Black Friday in 1538, only for it to reappear 470 years later.
Indeed. As part of my degree I studied the famous Primark Riots of 1539. People were outraged they couldn’t get 2 for 1 Ruffs
Were Iceland doing cod pieces then?
No, but a replica of The Great Seal was a hit seller.
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
And how does that help them either? A delayed defeat for him at their hands is not much good given there's little time left.
I’m still partly convinced that the government want to keep losing over Rwanda in order to have a reaction against the blob at the election. Now that’s bullish!t but it might be their plan.
I think many have been confused by the strategy of amping up an issue which has indeed been a concern for many, especially on the right, but doing so when they really don't have many options for quick wins, hence the hail mary option of Rwanda in the first place, which only even focuses on one element of it.
Comments
MSM gave birth to the chimera by its own behaviour.
Contribute something, you're quite interesting!
Hypothetically.
Or maybe not if you just wait for the exit poll.
So not quite a Valentine's Day Massacre for the Conservatives.
I cannot see losing the Rwanda bill as prompting Sunak to call a GE. Why on earth would he - on the basis of what platform? If the Rwanda bill fails to pass it's because the Tories are disunited, so he would be hard-pressed to call a 'back Rwanda' election.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/dec/11/rishi-sunak-covid-inquiry-conservatives-rwanda-asylum-bill-uk-politics-live
@YvetteCooperMP tells @LabourTogether event that @JamesCleverly "knows the Rwanda policy is batshit, Tory MPs are going apeshit and they'll soon be in deep sh....ambles"
I am taking Mrs P. on a romantic trip to Paris - I don't think me sitting up all night watching the GE results was on the itinerary.
As frequently pointed out on here, instead of bigging up the relative improvement in boat numbers this year, he has focused on it as major issue and is now busily failing to deliver a solution. Supremely bad politics.
(Here in my little suburb, we officially celebrate a "holiday". So the town puts up a fancy tree that looks much like a Christmas tree, but has no religious symbols on it. For example, at the top, instead of a star or angel, there is a snowflake.
Last year, the local Google topped the town by putting up what I would call a "designer tree". (I think I have a picture or two of it.)
What would I do were I running things? I would allow the local churches to rent spaces during the season, and put up their own trees with -- if they share my tastes -- many home-made ornaments.
people against him
I prefer to think I have a vacuum cleaner in the centre left of my airing cupboard...
It was pretty much like any other one.
Less alcohol and meat, mind.
As far as I'm aware, the UK did not ban export of either PPE or vaccines. Which - I would hope - will payoff in the future. Companies want to manufacture in places which recognise contractual obligations.
The fear is that the Wets aren't called the Wets for nothing. (Was that jibe Maggie, or someone Maggie-adjacent?)
Some mention of 'holiday season' every year but it generally gets ridiculed.
But, it's probably another of your wonderful traditions that will swamp us in time (I'm still struggling with Halloween tbh.)
For local festive decorations, it's hard to beat Dunbar. The lights are sponsored by local businesses, so instead of snowflakes and tress you get a taxicab, or plumbers.
Labour with 122 overall majority. Tories down to 204 seats.
Weak: allow it to drag on, and withdraw it when forced.
I wonder what percentage chance Sunak and his advisors ascribed to the court case going their way. If we knew that, the behaviour would be easier to understand.
https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co.uk/how-an-attempt-to-cancel-christmas-and-a-game-of-football-led-to-an-english-revolution/
By the end of the day, er... maybe that's not such a crazy idea.
Report stage / 3rd Reading though... ?
Foot 1983: 209 seats, 27.6%
Major 1997: 165 seats, 30.7%
Hague 2001: 166 seats, 31.7%
Corbyn 2019: 202 seats, 32.1%
Thinking about Sunak in 2024/5, Brucie asked the key question? Higher or lower?
Well, Sunak didn't really play his cards right, did he?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/11/tory-mp-groups-could-derail-rishi-sunak-rwanda-plan
God doesn't exist.
Sad, but there you are. If he did exist, no way would he allow the shit to happen that happens in his name.
But do you know how much the concept of "Christmas Cards" bother me? Not a jot. This time of year is the approach to Christmas. I give my kids Christmas presents. Christmas exists. We should celebrate it.
I really don't understand why people want to change it to "Happy Holidays". That's wank, that is. It's Christmas time. And, for what it's worth, I wouldn't get upset if someone sent me a "Glorious Diwali" or "Splendid Chanukah" card, because - whether you believe in God or not - these festivals exist. And people believe them and celebrate them, and good for them.
Astonishingly shit at politics.
Welcome, AverageNinja, or is it welcome back?
Aaron Rupar
@atrupar
·
Dec 10
Al Gore on CNN on Trump: "Well, I saw the other day where he pledged to be a dictator on day one. And you kind of wonder what it will take for people to believe him when he tells us what he is"
I am simultaneously insulted and relieved when it is consistently revealed that the UK manages just fine without me
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/elizabeth-line-trains-delayed-london-b2460725.html
NEW: On the point I’ve been making about a win tomorrow being a crisis delayed not resolved. Senior right winger tells me tonight: “The best the PM can hope for tomorrow is a phyrric victory.”
No way am I voting Labour now.
Now that’s bullish!t but it might be their plan.
They'd then hope they could avoid a repeat of standing still for a term, and so recovery in 2-3 elections rather than 4.
It's sometimes easy to forget, for us youngsters, how little they had recovered even by 2005, how much work Cameron still had in front of him.
Benefit claimants doubled during the lockdowns, and never came down again.
You'd think this *might* be relevant to the Covid enquiry 🧐
https://x.com/freddiesayers/status/1734239508449653159?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Even if you’re more than averagely skeptical it begins to have an effect. Such that you expect total mayhem, ever so slightly, when you land
And what you encounter is a rich clean calm orderly highly evolved capital city, gleaming with nice shops and pleasant young people being polite