Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I have, FWIW. And I've spent a great deal less time in London than you.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Don't many of the visitors to the British Museum go and see them ? And wonder afterwards what the fuss is all about.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I wouldn't open the curtains if they were in my back garden but I can see why Greece would like them back. I can also see why Sunak has to cock block it. The dim, proto-nationalist over-60s are the only reliable small-c constituency that the tories have left so he has to try to please them no matter how stupid and desperate it looks.
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Today's Post Office Inquiry witness. It begins with him not being able to remember the date he first worked for the organisation any more accurately than "the 80s".
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
Yet another defeat in the War on Woke.
They've been called the Parthenon Marbles for a long time, by those who want a neutral terminology.
It's not like calling them the Mercouri Marbles, is it?
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I've taken colleagues from overseas round the British Museum five years or so back but since I've no classical education, it was all a bit of a haze, tbh. The Rosetta Stone was probably more significant to this old tech nerd, and a Roman Emperor who looked like one of my old teachers (or was he Greek?).
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I wouldn't open the curtains if they were in my back garden but I can see why Greece would like them back. I can also see why Sunak has to cock block it. The dim, proto-nationalist over-60s are the only reliable small-c constituency that the tories have left so he has to try to please them no matter how stupid and desperate it looks.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Don't many of the visitors to the British Museum go and see them ? And wonder afterwards what the fuss is all about.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
I tend to find the Roman British and Assyrian sections the most interesting. There’s real, Lovecraftian, horror to the latter.
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Are there many people who can’t remember when they started and ended employment?
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Don't many of the visitors to the British Museum go and see them ? And wonder afterwards what the fuss is all about.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
I tend to find the Roman British and Assyrian sections the most interesting. There’s real, Lovecraftian, horror to the latter.
Back in the 70s it was a great disappointment to a megalith enthusiast to visit the "British" Museum. What you didn't really get in the displays was "British" archaeology, or rather English (it being illegal to export finds from Scotland and Ireland, in essence). Apart from the Library and MSS and Royal stamp collections, it was basically a warehouse of imported and not always paid for stuff with a small gallery of more local finds tacked on. I think it's improved since then!
The new National Parks idea has been around since 2019 and the Julian Glover report into National Parks and Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty. The report basically said that the management of these areas is crap and there should be new institutions to oversee them and that AONBs should be renamed Natural Landscapes and work together more. It also suggested that three AONBs be upgraded to National Parks. The Government was got at by the existing institutions who all responded that they are doing a jolly good job and so all that really remains is the name change to National Landscapes and the potential for a couple more National Parks.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I've taken colleagues from overseas round the British Museum five years or so back but since I've no classical education, it was all a bit of a haze, tbh. The Rosetta Stone was probably more significant to this old tech nerd, and a Roman Emperor who looked like one of my old teachers (or was he Greek?).
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
I've been many times, though tend to bypass the Marbles on grounds of being boring. There's a lot more interesting stuff in there, including the bogs.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I've taken colleagues from overseas round the British Museum five years or so back but since I've no classical education, it was all a bit of a haze, tbh. The Rosetta Stone was probably more significant to this old tech nerd, and a Roman Emperor who looked like one of my old teachers (or was he Greek?).
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
I've been many times, though tend to bypass the Marbles on grounds of being boring. There's a lot more interesting stuff in there, including the bogs.
Oh, does one get to meet interesting people like Pete Marsh in them?
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I've taken colleagues from overseas round the British Museum five years or so back but since I've no classical education, it was all a bit of a haze, tbh. The Rosetta Stone was probably more significant to this old tech nerd, and a Roman Emperor who looked like one of my old teachers (or was he Greek?).
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
I've been many times, though tend to bypass the Marbles on grounds of being boring. There's a lot more interesting stuff in there, including the bogs.
Oh, does one get to meet interesting people like Pete Marsh in them?
Haha. Though in all seriousness, as an adopted North Cestrian I hereby demand his return to Wilmslow.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I've taken colleagues from overseas round the British Museum five years or so back but since I've no classical education, it was all a bit of a haze, tbh. The Rosetta Stone was probably more significant to this old tech nerd, and a Roman Emperor who looked like one of my old teachers (or was he Greek?).
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
I've been many times, though tend to bypass the Marbles on grounds of being boring. There's a lot more interesting stuff in there, including the bogs.
Oh, does one get to meet interesting people like Pete Marsh in them?
Haha. Though in all seriousness, as an adopted North Cestrian I hereby demand his return to Wilmslow.
Things I don't think are important, number 86: The Elgin Marbles.
Oh I disagree with you there. They are massively important. What is not in any way important is keeping them in the British Museum or arguing with a friendly nation over who has them.
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
What on earth makes you think that people will be pleased to get put into a new national park? I've lived in two, in both cases the locals hated the park authority, mainly because of its unreasonable planning policies. The fact that it puts things like the planning system entirely into the hands of bureaucrats with no democratic mechanism to control them is particularly egregious.
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
More coverage since then. Notably of the nice gallery the Greeks have built. And the wire-brushing story was damaging to the British Museum. Plus other restitutions have taken place.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Are there many people who can’t remember when they started and ended employment?
Eh ? A reply to Andy's comment I'm guessing .
I can't but I keep old CVs in my email box in case I ever need to check.
On the politics, wouldn't Sunak have been better advised to go ahead with the Greek PM meeting, and then let it be known through his favoured news outlets that the Greek PM raised the Elgin Marbles issue and was issued with a firm rebuke from strong leader Sunak?
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Don't many of the visitors to the British Museum go and see them ? And wonder afterwards what the fuss is all about.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
I tend to find the Roman British and Assyrian sections the most interesting. There’s real, Lovecraftian, horror to the latter.
Rishi's premiership looks to be in a right old state. Has this Elgin Marbles lark won him any plaudits even from the crackpot element of the Tory/UKIP media?
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Are there many people who can’t remember when they started and ended employment?
Eh ? A reply to Andy's comment I'm guessing .
I can't but I keep old CVs in my email box in case I ever need to check.
Without checking, I might get the year wrong by 1 or at a push maybe even 2, but pretty confident I can get closer than simply guessing the nearest decade.....
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Are there many people who can’t remember when they started and ended employment?
Eh ? A reply to Andy's comment I'm guessing .
I can't but I keep old CVs in my email box in case I ever need to check.
Without checking, I might get the year wrong by 1 or at a push maybe even 2, but pretty confident I can get closer than simply guessing the nearest decade.....
Me too. THis seems to be happening often enough that one is, rightly or wrongly, beginning to wonder if it's a deliberate time-wasting, or " we DGAF what you want to know and we don't care", corporate strategy.
Things I don't think are important, number 86: The Elgin Marbles.
Oh I disagree with you there. They are massively important. What is not in any way important is keeping them in the British Museum or arguing with a friendly nation over who has them.
It certainly won't be a friendly nation now.
If it were Assyrian stuff I'd be calling it a wedge issue; as it is, the Elgin marbles hardly seem enough for a diplomatic incident. One wonders what Mr Sunak really didn't want to talk about.
The media showed Starmer flanked by Cooper and Lammy sitting opposite the Greek PM in an official meeting re the marbles apparently prior to the scheduled meeting with Sunak
Diplomatically silly by the Greek PM, but utterly childish and stupid by Sunak to abruptly cancel his meeting
I have no idea what he or his advisors were thinking, if indeed there were, but this unnecessary own goal speaks volumes why Sunak is not cutting through and is a disappointment
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I wouldn't open the curtains if they were in my back garden but I can see why Greece would like them back. I can also see why Sunak has to cock block it. The dim, proto-nationalist over-60s are the only reliable small-c constituency that the tories have left so he has to try to please them no matter how stupid and desperate it looks.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Don't many of the visitors to the British Museum go and see them ? And wonder afterwards what the fuss is all about.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
I tend to find the Roman British and Assyrian sections the most interesting. There’s real, Lovecraftian, horror to the latter.
I love a man in cuneiform.
Did those guys love to torture! Their kings bragged about the people they'd flayed, impaled, deported, raped, forced to grind up their own ancestors' bones.
Today's Post Office Inquiry witness. It begins with him not being able to remember the date he first worked for the organisation any more accurately than "the 80s".
You cannot help but being struck by the low quality of staff the PO was using for its persecution of Subpostmasters. We are currently seeing a parade of nonentities with few educational or professional qualifications, some jaw-droppingly stupid, and some malevolent with it. They are mostly using the 'we-were-only-obeying-orders' defence.
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
What on earth makes you think that people will be pleased to get put into a new national park? I've lived in two, in both cases the locals hated the park authority, mainly because of its unreasonable planning policies. The fact that it puts things like the planning system entirely into the hands of bureaucrats with no democratic mechanism to control them is particularly egregious.
I imagine some people in a potential national park would think it would lead to their houses becoming worth more and the possibility of new building being reduced.
Things I don't think are important, number 86: The Elgin Marbles.
Oh I disagree with you there. They are massively important. What is not in any way important is keeping them in the British Museum or arguing with a friendly nation over who has them.
It certainly won't be a friendly nation now.
If it were Assyrian stuff I'd be calling it a wedge issue; as it is, the Elgin marbles hardly seem enough for a diplomatic incident. One wonders what Mr Sunak really didn't want to talk about.
Crete is extremely pro-British, based upon shared wartime experiences. When it surrendered in 1941, quite a few British soldiers joined the partisans.
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
The Tories haven't got everything right but as a driver, this has been a big tick in the box compared to Labour's ridiculous "fuel escalator". One of the reasons they have got the car driver's vote in the 2010s.
And one of the main reasons we pay £100 billion a year servicing the national debt. The fuel escalator was brought in by the Tories in 1993.
Things I don't think are important, number 86: The Elgin Marbles.
Oh I disagree with you there. They are massively important. What is not in any way important is keeping them in the British Museum or arguing with a friendly nation over who has them.
It certainly won't be a friendly nation now.
If it were Assyrian stuff I'd be calling it a wedge issue; as it is, the Elgin marbles hardly seem enough for a diplomatic incident. One wonders what Mr Sunak really didn't want to talk about.
There's a real chance the Assyrian stuff would be destroyed by fanatics, in Iraq.
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
The Tories haven't got everything right but as a driver, this has been a big tick in the box compared to Labour's ridiculous "fuel escalator". One of the reasons they have got the car driver's vote in the 2010s.
And one of the main reasons we pay £100 billion a year servicing the national debt. The fuel escalator was brought in by the Tories in 1993.
If it wasn't this government, some other would have scrapped the fuel escalator.
Things I don't think are important, number 86: The Elgin Marbles.
Oh I disagree with you there. They are massively important. What is not in any way important is keeping them in the British Museum or arguing with a friendly nation over who has them.
It certainly won't be a friendly nation now.
If it were Assyrian stuff I'd be calling it a wedge issue; as it is, the Elgin marbles hardly seem enough for a diplomatic incident. One wonders what Mr Sunak really didn't want to talk about.
There's a real chance the Assyrian stuff would be destroyed by fanatics, in Iraq.
Or more likely still, looted and sold on the black market.
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
Just reminded me that most of the Lewis Chessmen are in the.... British Museum.
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
More coverage since then. Notably of the nice gallery the Greeks have built. And the wire-brushing story was damaging to the British Museum. Plus other restitutions have taken place.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
The major public schools and many grammar schools still do Latin, Classics and to a lesser extent Greek. Professor Beard has also done a good job promoting classics in state schools more broadly too.
Whether you support or oppose return of the Marbles knowledge of Greek and Ancient Greek in particular will help decipher inscriptions and archive records that put them in context.
I knew some in New Labour like Charles Clarke and some ultra business focused Thatcherites were Philistines when it comes to Classics but I didn't realise Scottish Nationalists were too!
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
The Tories haven't got everything right but as a driver, this has been a big tick in the box compared to Labour's ridiculous "fuel escalator". One of the reasons they have got the car driver's vote in the 2010s.
And one of the main reasons we pay £100 billion a year servicing the national debt. The fuel escalator was brought in by the Tories in 1993.
If it wasn't this government, some other would have scrapped the fuel escalator.
I expect Starmer will reintroduce duty rises on fuel. It's one of those things people have forgotten about now but won't be happy when it's reintroduced even though they voted for him.
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
Just reminded me that most of the Lewis Chessmen are in the.... British Museum.
On the politics, wouldn't Sunak have been better advised to go ahead with the Greek PM meeting, and then let it be known through his favoured news outlets that the Greek PM raised the Elgin Marbles issue and was issued with a firm rebuke from strong leader Sunak?
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
Even easier you say i am aware that there are proposals from the British Museum being investigated, early stages, they will in due course inform me of such suggestions, now lets talk about....
Ball, long grass, have it (trademark Peter Kay)...
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
Just reminded me that most of the Lewis Chessmen are in the.... British Museum.
RETURN THE CHESSMEN
Mate, it is quite clear that with far higher tourist numbers you will get not just those who plan to see the Chessmen at the British Museum, but also those having a stroll around London en passant.
Just finished the first Reith Lecture by Ben Ansell on Democracy. Good and clear thoughts on Democracy, current threats to democracy and voting systems.
Was amused however that in a lecture about democracy and the threat to different views and polarisation the only question that the host, Anita Annand, interrupted was by Bill Cash (don’t particularly like him and he’s not a sympathetic character) asking Ben Ansell if, based on his lecture, he thought it better to be governed solely by our country’s elected leaders rather than laws being introduced from other bodies.
Unfortunately Anita Annand didn’t feel it right he should be able to develop his whole question, unlike the questions regarding old voters having too much sway, the young not having enough say, the House of Lords “good or bad”, and decided to try and stop him and eventually said “I think we already know where you are going”. Just surprised she didn’t turn to the audience with a cry of “amirite” for a cheer. At least the whole lecture hadn’t been about the dangers of shutting down voices and trying to enable people to have their say.
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
Just reminded me that most of the Lewis Chessmen are in the.... British Museum.
On the politics, wouldn't Sunak have been better advised to go ahead with the Greek PM meeting, and then let it be known through his favoured news outlets that the Greek PM raised the Elgin Marbles issue and was issued with a firm rebuke from strong leader Sunak?
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
Even easier you say i am aware that there are proposals from the British Museum being investigated, early stages, they will in due course inform me of such suggestions, now lets talk about....
Ball, long grass, have it (trademark Peter Kay)...
He has only got to delay for a maximum of 14 months then he is all clear. Thankfully.
On the politics, wouldn't Sunak have been better advised to go ahead with the Greek PM meeting, and then let it be known through his favoured news outlets that the Greek PM raised the Elgin Marbles issue and was issued with a firm rebuke from strong leader Sunak?
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
Even easier you say i am aware that there are proposals from the British Museum being investigated, early stages, they will in due course inform me of such suggestions, now lets talk about....
Ball, long grass, have it (trademark Peter Kay)...
He has only got to delay for a maximum of 14 months then he is all clear. Thankfully.
Well yes obviously, but also every country has long standing issues about this and that with other nations, normally there are just standard diplomatic established procedures that raise the issue then move on e.g. West dealing with Saudi or China. I presume there is a very generic approach to we are raising the fact we don't like you human rights abuses, but about that mega billion dollar investment in...
Saudi and China know they will get this, the West know they have to raise it, its all virtue signalled and they move on.
I presume its the same anytime UK talks to Argentina, we want our Islands back, with diplomatic response effecticely saying go whistle, and its all part of the game.
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
The Tories haven't got everything right but as a driver, this has been a big tick in the box compared to Labour's ridiculous "fuel escalator". One of the reasons they have got the car driver's vote in the 2010s.
They have got the motorists' vote, not the car drivers' one. There is a big difference. It starts with gloves ;-)
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
More coverage since then. Notably of the nice gallery the Greeks have built. And the wire-brushing story was damaging to the British Museum. Plus other restitutions have taken place.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
I suspect that the more people who catch glimpse of how dull they are on the news, the more likely they won't care where they end up.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
To continue this theme, I’d recommend the Verulamiam Museum.
Vindolanda is probably the best museum of archaeology I've been to in the UK (perhaps anywhere tbh).
A few years ago I went to the Scottish Museum in Edinburgh and was very impressed. Reminded me of visiting museums when I was a child (I don't know if that is a good thing or not, but I have been disappointed by several visits to others as an adult).
Just reminded me that most of the Lewis Chessmen are in the.... British Museum.
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
More coverage since then. Notably of the nice gallery the Greeks have built. And the wire-brushing story was damaging to the British Museum. Plus other restitutions have taken place.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
The major public schools and many grammar schools still do Latin, Classics and to a lesser extent Greek. Professor Beard has also done a good job promoting classics in state schools more broadly too.
Whether you support or oppose return of the Marbles knowledge of Greek and Ancient Greek in particular will help decipher inscriptions and archive records that put them in context.
I knew some in New Labour like Charles Clarke and some ultra business focused Thatcherites were Philistines when it comes to Classics but I didn't realise Scottish Nationalists were too!
I studied Ancient Greek (to Standard Grade) and Latin (to Higher) at my Scottish comprehensive school. I'm not sure how useful any of it was but I did enjoy both subjects.
I heard on Today that George Osborne, head of the British Museum, was willing to lend them back to Greece in exchange for the loan of some stuff that is not normally allowed to leave Greece which sounds like a win win for the Museum.
The contrast between this competence and Sunak’s petulance is actually painful.
Not sure I'd put the words "competence" and "British Museum" in the same sentence, given what we've recently learnt about the latter's loss of artefacts. Osborne might have better spent his time ensuring the staff were not stealing.
Osborne is an ex-politician so grandstanding will be his priority.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
The BBC's report from your link credits an Amnesty International spox:-
Freed Palestinian prisoner had been accused of 'attempting scissor attack' As we've been reporting, 30 Palestinian prisoners were freed from Israeli jails yesterday as part of the current truce deal.
Budour Hassan, from Amnesty International, has been speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about one of those - a female prisoner called Nurhan.
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says.
Israeli forces shot at and injured Nurhan, and killed her cousin.
Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail, which Hassan describes as "an exceptionally disproportionate sentence".
She says Nurhan studied for her high school exams while in prison, and was supported throughout by other female prisoners, including political activists.
The first thing she did after being freed was visit her cousin's grave, Hassan says.
As we've been reporting, it's mostly women and teenage boys who've been released as part of the truce so far.
I dare say some will be complaining the biased BBC makes it sound like Israeli prisons are just glorified girls' boarding schools.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
The BBC's report from your link credits an Amnesty International spox:-
Freed Palestinian prisoner had been accused of 'attempting scissor attack' As we've been reporting, 30 Palestinian prisoners were freed from Israeli jails yesterday as part of the current truce deal.
Budour Hassan, from Amnesty International, has been speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about one of those - a female prisoner called Nurhan.
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says.
Israeli forces shot at and injured Nurhan, and killed her cousin.
Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail, which Hassan describes as "an exceptionally disproportionate sentence".
She says Nurhan studied for her high school exams while in prison, and was supported throughout by other female prisoners, including political activists.
The first thing she did after being freed was visit her cousin's grave, Hassan says.
As we've been reporting, it's mostly women and teenage boys who've been released as part of the truce so far.
I dare say some will be complaining the biased BBC makes it sound like Israeli prisons are just glorified girls' boarding schools.
Do these Israeli boarding schools teach Latin and Greek?
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
The BBC's report from your link credits an Amnesty International spox:-
Freed Palestinian prisoner had been accused of 'attempting scissor attack' As we've been reporting, 30 Palestinian prisoners were freed from Israeli jails yesterday as part of the current truce deal.
Budour Hassan, from Amnesty International, has been speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about one of those - a female prisoner called Nurhan.
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says.
Israeli forces shot at and injured Nurhan, and killed her cousin.
Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail, which Hassan describes as "an exceptionally disproportionate sentence".
She says Nurhan studied for her high school exams while in prison, and was supported throughout by other female prisoners, including political activists.
The first thing she did after being freed was visit her cousin's grave, Hassan says.
As we've been reporting, it's mostly women and teenage boys who've been released as part of the truce so far.
I dare say some will be complaining the biased BBC makes it sound like Israeli prisons are just glorified girls' boarding schools.
My point is they let this go unchallenged. 2 seconds of research find it out the truth and it was all captured on video. Its bias by omission. They let a sympathetic voice spout a certain position who is distorting the facts, the BBC should be adding the truthful context. They should take inspiration from twitter community notes, where you add facts / links.
I would say the sentence does seem harsh, but just letting it hang as vaguely about scissors and the fact it was ramage against cilvians and they took a plea deal is important information.
Just finished the first Reith Lecture by Ben Ansell on Democracy. Good and clear thoughts on Democracy, current threats to democracy and voting systems.
Was amused however that in a lecture about democracy and the threat to different views and polarisation the only question that the host, Anita Annand, interrupted was by Bill Cash (don’t particularly like him and he’s not a sympathetic character) asking Ben Ansell if, based on his lecture, he thought it better to be governed solely by our country’s elected leaders rather than laws being introduced from other bodies.
Unfortunately Anita Annand didn’t feel it right he should be able to develop his whole question, unlike the questions regarding old voters having too much sway, the young not having enough say, the House of Lords “good or bad”, and decided to try and stop him and eventually said “I think we already know where you are going”. Just surprised she didn’t turn to the audience with a cry of “amirite” for a cheer. At least the whole lecture hadn’t been about the dangers of shutting down voices and trying to enable people to have their say.
Haley is generally priced at:- 12/1 for the Presidency 8/1 - 10/1 for the GOP nomination 11/2 - 7/1 for the GOP vice-president nomination (Trump's running mate?)
Whether you can get on at these prices taken from Oddschecker is another question.
What is interesting though is the books (above) have Haley shortest to be the VP pick (and some on PB have wondered if she will be Trump's running mate). Not so on Betfair.
9/1 for the Presidency 13/2 for the GOP nomination 13/1 for GOP VP nomination.
Christie needs to stand aside now and give her N Hampshire.
What difference would that make? He's a never Trumper now, she's a Trump supporter in practice since despite running against him anyone with hopes of holding office again cannot be too much against him, how much overlap in voters would they have?
Indie voters can vote in N Hampshire. Christie has put everything he has into that state. It's his one and last stand.
Iowa: who knows. Trump wins easily, but if Haley comes a good 2nd? Santis is looking like he is out of it in that case.
N Hampshire: Haley could win.
S Carolina: her home state.
There is a possible but very thin path for Haley via a fantastic start in early three states. If she can become the only not-Trump candidate, then just maybe he can be stopped from destroying the country.
Trump will run as an independent anyway even if he doesn't get the nomination
That would be excellent.
For Biden.
There are a lot "sore loser" State laws that would make that difficult.
Do those include Arizona, Goergia, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, Maine or Nebraska ?
Are there many people who can’t remember when they started and ended employment?
Eh ? A reply to Andy's comment I'm guessing .
I can't but I keep old CVs in my email box in case I ever need to check.
Without checking, I might get the year wrong by 1 or at a push maybe even 2, but pretty confident I can get closer than simply guessing the nearest decade.....
Me too. THis seems to be happening often enough that one is, rightly or wrongly, beginning to wonder if it's a deliberate time-wasting, or " we DGAF what you want to know and we don't care", corporate strategy.
It's a deliberate fuck you policy by the Post Office. It does not care. 2 Business Ministers including Badenoch straight out lied to the Business Select Committee about their knowledge of the Post Office's bonus scheme - the one where they claimed they had complied with the inquiry's demands and the judge had approved the bonus scheme when neither of those were true.
Instead of being investigated for fraud by abuse of position nothing happened.
So that's the tone from the top. Little wonder the malevolent 3rd rate numpties at the bottom are behaving in the inquiry in the way they are.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
Using your hotline to Mark Regev again? Always more reliable than the BBC.
Anyway, while I am glad I went on Sunday's march I have now come down with an absolute stinker of a cold and sore throat, which is not great news as next week I am doing two talks. So hitting the chesty cough linctuses like an unreformed alcoholic.
Gorgeously cold and frosty day here. A fresh parcel of spring bulbs has been delivered but I might put that off for a day or two.
BBC at it again...like the woman claims her car malfunctioned causing facial disfigurement, Israeli claim it was an attack (it was a car bomb)....
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
Using your hotline to Mark Regev again? Always more reliable than the BBC.
ITV news and Times of Israel do you for sources?
As we keep seeing BBC is massively unreliable when it comes to this coverage and as Jeremy Bowen admits he isn't that bothered over the mistakes he has made...even ones that led to riots across the Middle East.
(a) The British Museum is very boring, and; (b) The Elgin Marbles are "meh", and I'm not sure I could care less
However, and it's a big however, they are the thin edge on the wedge on things like reparations, restitution and "cultural justice".
They are thus totemic for that reason and, therefore, such moves have to be resisted, even at Greece's expense, I'm afraid.
Or else there will be a flurry of claims, our museums will start to empty, and it will play into trade deals, power politics, and all sorts of things.
I think we should invade Greece, steal some more marbles, bring them back and point and go "nahh, nahh, nah nah nah" just to ram the point home. I'm sure there are very good reasons why country X should have thing Y which we own. I don't care. We don't have enough stuff and I want to keep the stuff we have. If they want it they can pay for it.
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
Just finished the first Reith Lecture by Ben Ansell on Democracy. Good and clear thoughts on Democracy, current threats to democracy and voting systems.
Was amused however that in a lecture about democracy and the threat to different views and polarisation the only question that the host, Anita Annand, interrupted was by Bill Cash (don’t particularly like him and he’s not a sympathetic character) asking Ben Ansell if, based on his lecture, he thought it better to be governed solely by our country’s elected leaders rather than laws being introduced from other bodies.
Unfortunately Anita Annand didn’t feel it right he should be able to develop his whole question, unlike the questions regarding old voters having too much sway, the young not having enough say, the House of Lords “good or bad”, and decided to try and stop him and eventually said “I think we already know where you are going”. Just surprised she didn’t turn to the audience with a cry of “amirite” for a cheer. At least the whole lecture hadn’t been about the dangers of shutting down voices and trying to enable people to have their say.
Some people find it hard to understand that the benefits of democracy (like the rule of law) are for people you find unsympathetic, as much as for people you find sympathetic.
Today's Post Office Inquiry witness. It begins with him not being able to remember the date he first worked for the organisation any more accurately than "the 80s".
You cannot help but being struck by the low quality of staff the PO was using for its persecution of Subpostmasters. We are currently seeing a parade of nonentities with few educational or professional qualifications, some jaw-droppingly stupid, and some malevolent with it. They are mostly using the 'we-were-only-obeying-orders' defence.
I doubt any of them would know about Nuremburg.
Only following orders, but none of them can name anyone specific. It's just a "general feeling" that the Horizon system was 100% reliable.
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
Why can't you give an inch and then just stop?
It's easier to ignore unreasonable demands than reasonable ones.
Apparently the public doesn't even want these marbles
This story is ancient history. We already have another freshly manufactured Hail Mary Pass in from Chez Rishi this morning.
This Government is going to save the world by creating a new National Park in either a) The Cotswolds, b) The Chilterns or c) Dorset. Nothing to do with 'normally' Conservative areas needing to be shored up.
A slightly sticky wicket for Rishi, remembering that:
a) National Park funding has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010. b) Excise Duty on petrol and diesel has been cut by 40% in real terms by the Conservative Government since 2010.
What on earth makes you think that people will be pleased to get put into a new national park? I've lived in two, in both cases the locals hated the park authority, mainly because of its unreasonable planning policies. The fact that it puts things like the planning system entirely into the hands of bureaucrats with no democratic mechanism to control them is particularly egregious.
I imagine some people in a potential national park would think it would lead to their houses becoming worth more and the possibility of new building being reduced.
I wonder if anyone has told Mr & Mrs Nimby-Sunak-Target-Voter what being in a National Park does to their permitted development rights ?
(Walmington-on-Sea Nimbyism applying only to things that OTHER people build.)
On the politics, wouldn't Sunak have been better advised to go ahead with the Greek PM meeting, and then let it be known through his favoured news outlets that the Greek PM raised the Elgin Marbles issue and was issued with a firm rebuke from strong leader Sunak?
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
That's a good point. If you're going to try and make political capital from being tough on the Marbles you should do it with strength and confidence. "They asked for them back. I said go whistle." As it is it looks like we're so brittle and nervy about the issue we can't bear to even talk about it. It's very Beta.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
You are quite staggeringly uncultured
I've seen them 15-20 times. I have also seen the new Athens museum which wants to house them
Sometimes I go and have a look and think Meh, boring, other times I am struck, emotionally, by their power and grace, and by their remarkable history
The best solution is Osborne's "loan and rotate". Otherwise we really will get every countyy asking for X and X back, and then one of the world's greatest collections will be dismembered by spineless virtue signalling Woke lefties (there will always be some particular emotive reason to return this or that)
This solution requires compromise on both sides. If we are prepared to compromise, so must the Greeks. Otherwise they can fuck off, and we won't protect them when Turkey comes invadin'
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
You are quite staggeringly uncultured
I've seen them 15-20 times. I have also seen the new Athens museum which wants to house them
Sometimes I go and have a look and think Meh, boring, other times I am struck, emotionally, by their power and grace, and by their remarkable history
The best solution is Osborne's "loan and rotate". Otherwise we really will get every countyy asking for X and X back, and then one of the world's greatest collections will be dismembered by spineless virtue signalling Woke lefties (there will always be some particular emotive reason to return this or that)
This solution requires compromise on both sides. If we are prepared to compromise, so must the Greeks. Otherwise they can fuck off, and we won't protect them when Turkey comes invadin'
A fair swap would see us giving them back the marbles, and them bestowing on us their cobalt blue skies, their fragrant herb-strewn hillsides and their wine-dark sea.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
The old 'slippery slope'? I rarely buy that and I certainly don't on this one. It's sui generous and can be treated as such. Just return them (which costs us nothing) and bank the Goodwill. It's a win for us. Goodwill has value. That's why you can find it sometimes on a balance sheet. Least you could back in my day as an accountant (chartered).
As for the politics of it, there's an opportunity for SKS here imo. It can't go in the manifesto because you don't want to give the Tories the chance to turn the GE into a referendum on the Elgin marbles but "We are returning them!" would work nicely as a big surprise announcement on the morning after the Labour landslide. A bit like Gordon Brown did with BoE independence.
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
The old 'slippery slope'? I rarely buy that and I certainly don't on this one. It's sui generous and can be treated as such. Just return them (which costs us nothing) and bank the Goodwill. It's a win for us. Goodwill has value. That's why you can find it sometimes on a balance sheet. Least you could back in my day as an accountant (chartered).
(Snip)
It'll gain us f'all goodwill. Those who care to have them back will say that it should have been done years ago / they should never have been 'stolen'; whilst those who don't care, won't care enough to give us any goodwill.
Evidence on face coverings is still uncertain, Harries says
As we've been reporting, the inquiry has just been talking about one of the most divisive policies of the pandemic: face masks.
Harries says there was little evidence on the effectiveness of homemade face coverings and she was concerned that recommending them could encourage people to socialise more and lead to a "false sense of security".
"If people just thought they could get a bit of t-shirt, put it around their face, and that would solve all our problems and we could go back to normal [then] that was not going to be a good public health intervention," she said.
But, more than three years later, she says the evidence on face coverings is still "uncertain", partly because it's so difficult to design a study to accurately test their effectiveness in real world conditions.
Another nonsense MRP poll - this time from Survation. Among the constituency results they have Labour winning Caithness and Sutherland and also Eastbourne.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
The old 'slippery slope'? I rarely buy that and I certainly don't on this one. It's sui generous and can be treated as such. Just return them (which costs us nothing) and bank the Goodwill. It's a win for us. Goodwill has value. That's why you can find it sometimes on a balance sheet. Least you could back in my day as an accountant (chartered).
(Snip)
It'll gain us f'all goodwill. Those who care to have them back will say that it should have been done years ago / they should never have been 'stolen'; whilst those who don't care, won't care enough to give us any goodwill.
Of course it will. There'll be plenty of people surprised and delighted. And 'better late then never' is a caveat which tempers rather than eliminates that sentiment.
On the other hand, I do think Sunak cocked it up with his "snub" to the Greek PM
He probably thought he could have turned it into a wedge issue - the Left will have over everything to everyone! - but he failed
Boris would, instinctuively, have handled it better: he could have done a photo shoot with the Greek PM telling him to fuck off in Ancient Greek (which he probably speaks better than the Greek PM)
Evidence on face coverings is still uncertain, Harries says
As we've been reporting, the inquiry has just been talking about one of the most divisive policies of the pandemic: face masks.
Harries says there was little evidence on the effectiveness of homemade face coverings and she was concerned that recommending them could encourage people to socialise more and lead to a "false sense of security".
"If people just thought they could get a bit of t-shirt, put it around their face, and that would solve all our problems and we could go back to normal [then] that was not going to be a good public health intervention," she said.
But, more than three years later, she says the evidence on face coverings is still "uncertain", partly because it's so difficult to design a study to accurately test their effectiveness in real world conditions.
The problem with masking was always thus:
If everyone wore a top-quality, medical grade mask perfectly at all times, then they would have had a major effect. However, in reality, almost nobody did so.
Thus the effectiveness of the policy was reduced so far that the negative social effects of masking (which were manifold) in the later, post-vax stages of the pandemic, probably outweighed any clinical benefits from the policies.
Anyone remember the policy whereby you only had to put a mask on in a pub when stood up, or when you had to attend a wedding in masks unless you were the bride and/or were eating??
One day, someone will produce an entire hit black comedy based on some of this stuff.
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
More coverage since then. Notably of the nice gallery the Greeks have built. And the wire-brushing story was damaging to the British Museum. Plus other restitutions have taken place.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
The major public schools and many grammar schools still do Latin, Classics and to a lesser extent Greek. Professor Beard has also done a good job promoting classics in state schools more broadly too.
Whether you support or oppose return of the Marbles knowledge of Greek and Ancient Greek in particular will help decipher inscriptions and archive records that put them in context.
I knew some in New Labour like Charles Clarke and some ultra business focused Thatcherites were Philistines when it comes to Classics but I didn't realise Scottish Nationalists were too!
I didn't give you any evidence that I was a Philistine - simply making a factual observation. You're projecting your Victorian and Carolingian values, as always, on your opposition.
Another nonsense MRP poll - this time from Survation. Among the constituency results they have Labour winning Caithness and Sutherland and also Eastbourne.
Those MRP polls are excellent propaganda for any Tory election campaign seeking to sow confusion about tactical voting.
Depressing overview of Russian and Ukranian tactics in late 2023
TLDR: Russians have the advantage in terms of mass. Ukranians have an advantage in terms of survivability. The Russians lose (far?) more in terms of men and materiel, but they have more to lose. The Ukranians lose less (vehicles are damaged and can be repaired) but have less. Hence the stalemate.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
I believe it’s the accepted terminology in Greece, which is understandable since we’re talking about one of the greatest expressions of Greek culture removed in murky circumstances (and is more accurate since there are more pieces than those held by the BM). Britain has tended to be a taker rather than a giver, but it would probably rub salt in the wound if some great cultural symbol which had been despoiled while Britain was powerless was named after the dodgy geezer that slipped a local official dosh to turn a blind eye.
Why not just return the Marbles to Greece? We look good and feel the glow of doing the right thing. They are happy and we earn a place in their hearts. Sorted. It's goodwill all round and peace on Earth. There's so many difficult problems in the world it seems a shame to make a meal out of the really easy ones.
Give an inch to A and many from B to Z will want to take a yard.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
The old 'slippery slope'? I rarely buy that and I certainly don't on this one. It's sui generous and can be treated as such. Just return them (which costs us nothing) and bank the Goodwill. It's a win for us. Goodwill has value. That's why you can find it sometimes on a balance sheet. Least you could back in my day as an accountant (chartered).
(Snip)
It'll gain us f'all goodwill. Those who care to have them back will say that it should have been done years ago / they should never have been 'stolen'; whilst those who don't care, won't care enough to give us any goodwill.
Of course it will. There'll be plenty of people surprised and delighted. And 'better late then never' is a caveat which tempers rather than eliminates that sentiment.
Nah, it won't. There'll also be people pi**ed off, as well. It will gain us nothing in international relations, and, in fact, cause us a lot more hassle in the future.
(That's not to say it shouldn't be done just that the 'goodwill' argument is specious.)
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
No one is 'changing words'; they've always been part of the Parthenon frieze - along with some metopes and pedimental figures. So 'Parthenon sculptures' tells you rather more about them than 'Elgin marbles'.
This whole episode is weird. It's as though we can go back to behaving as though we were still an imperial power, dealing with foreign leaders as mild inconveniences. While temperamentally that might appeal to to the Tory party, even most of Sunak's MPs are reportedly bemused by his stance, and can't understand what he's aiming to achieve.
I don't really care, but the Osborne/Starmer idea (not sure who thought of it first) of rotating them for Greek artifacts on loan seems a sensible solution. A question: since everyone seems to agree that these are very important artifacts which benefit enormously from being on view - how many of you have actually been to see them? I certainly haven't, and doubt if many have, but perhaps I'm wrong.
I wouldn't open the curtains if they were in my back garden but I can see why Greece would like them back. I can also see why Sunak has to cock block it. The dim, proto-nationalist over-60s are the only reliable small-c constituency that the tories have left so he has to try to please them no matter how stupid and desperate it looks.
Comments
And I've spent a great deal less time in London than you.
I certainly did.
I'd be curious to know what proportion of British people had been to the British Museum, National Gallery, Science Museum etc.
And what proportion of Londoners had been.
Its easy to find the number of visitors such places have but many of them will be repeat visitors and/or foreign tourists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbab7hMoNIs
It's not like calling them the Mercouri Marbles, is it?
One thing I do remember is large, organised groups of American and Chinese visitors, so we should bear in mind these are collections of international importance, not just to us and the Greeks.
https://cherwell.org/2022/01/15/old-boris-johnson-essay-argues-for-return-of-the-parthenon-marbles/
(He might not have espoused those views so strongly while PM: I wouldn't know.)
https://greekreporter.com/2014/10/20/37-of-yougov-respondents-want-the-parthenon-marbles-returned-to-greece/
Not sure what has changed peoples minds to that extent? I suspect the vast majority haven't given it any headspace and give instinctive answers.
I've lived in two, in both cases the locals hated the park authority, mainly because of its unreasonable planning policies. The fact that it puts things like the planning system entirely into the hands of bureaucrats with no democratic mechanism to control them is particularly egregious.
Also, the generation eddicated proper with Latin and Greek is dying out, a few archaic relicts such as the Etonians apart (do all of them even do Latin now)?
But only suiggestions!
PS Scrub the wire-brushing, strictly speaking (so to speak). THat came out in 2009 (but might have been recapped later).
I can't but I keep old CVs in my email box in case I ever need to check.
Instead, Sunak chose to be churlish and childish. Which he is.
My letter in ‘Private Eye’ today.
https://x.com/clarkemicah/status/1729794814160384309?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
If it were Assyrian stuff I'd be calling it a wedge issue; as it is, the Elgin marbles hardly seem enough for a diplomatic incident. One wonders what Mr Sunak really didn't want to talk about.
The media showed Starmer flanked by Cooper and Lammy sitting opposite the Greek PM in an official meeting re the marbles apparently prior to the scheduled meeting with Sunak
Diplomatically silly by the Greek PM, but utterly childish and stupid by Sunak to abruptly cancel his meeting
I have no idea what he or his advisors were thinking, if indeed there were, but this unnecessary own goal speaks volumes why Sunak is not cutting through and is a disappointment
I doubt any of them would know about Nuremburg.
The fuel escalator was brought in by the Tories in 1993.
RETURN THE CHESSMEN
An e-ballot scandal is brewing in Croydon East
BY MICHAEL CRICK
https://unherd.com/2023/11/did-labour-rig-its-selection-votes/
Whether you support or oppose return of the Marbles knowledge of Greek and Ancient Greek in particular will help decipher inscriptions and archive records that put them in context.
I knew some in New Labour like Charles Clarke and some ultra business focused Thatcherites were Philistines when it comes to Classics but I didn't realise Scottish Nationalists were too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc
Ball, long grass, have it (trademark Peter Kay)...
Was amused however that in a lecture about democracy and the threat to different views and polarisation the only question that the host, Anita Annand, interrupted was by Bill Cash (don’t particularly like him and he’s not a sympathetic character) asking Ben Ansell if, based on his lecture, he thought it better to be governed solely by our country’s elected leaders rather than laws being introduced from other bodies.
Unfortunately Anita Annand didn’t feel it right he should be able to develop his whole question, unlike the questions regarding old voters having too much sway, the young not having enough say, the House of Lords “good or bad”, and decided to try and stop him and eventually said “I think we already know where you are going”. Just surprised she didn’t turn to the audience with a cry of “amirite” for a cheer. At least the whole lecture hadn’t been about the dangers of shutting down voices and trying to enable people to have their say.
Saudi and China know they will get this, the West know they have to raise it, its all virtue signalled and they move on.
I presume its the same anytime UK talks to Argentina, we want our Islands back, with diplomatic response effecticely saying go whistle, and its all part of the game.
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says. Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail,
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67562488
Makes it sounds quite very innocent.
The facts - The prosecution secured Nurhan Awad’s agreement to a plea bargain, in which she confessed to attempted murder (hence the sentence). Two of them went around trying to stab a load of people including the elderly and a soldier.
(Or Narwhal, can't remember)
Freed Palestinian prisoner had been accused of 'attempting scissor attack'
As we've been reporting, 30 Palestinian prisoners were freed from Israeli jails yesterday as part of the current truce deal.
Budour Hassan, from Amnesty International, has been speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about one of those - a female prisoner called Nurhan.
Nurhan was 15 years old when she was accused of trying to carry out an attack with scissors, Hassan says.
Israeli forces shot at and injured Nurhan, and killed her cousin.
Nurhan was sentenced to 13 and-a-half years in jail, which Hassan describes as "an exceptionally disproportionate sentence".
She says Nurhan studied for her high school exams while in prison, and was supported throughout by other female prisoners, including political activists.
The first thing she did after being freed was visit her cousin's grave, Hassan says.
As we've been reporting, it's mostly women and teenage boys who've been released as part of the truce so far.
I dare say some will be complaining the biased BBC makes it sound like Israeli prisons are just glorified girls' boarding schools.
(a) The British Museum is very boring, and;
(b) The Elgin Marbles are "meh", and I'm not sure I could care less
However, and it's a big however, they are the thin edge on the wedge on things like reparations, restitution and "cultural justice".
They are thus totemic for that reason and, therefore, such moves have to be resisted, even at Greece's expense, I'm afraid.
Or else there will be a flurry of claims, our museums will start to empty, and it will play into trade deals, power politics, and all sorts of things.
I would say the sentence does seem harsh, but just letting it hang as vaguely about scissors and the fact it was ramage against cilvians and they took a plea deal is important information.
Instead of being investigated for fraud by abuse of position nothing happened.
So that's the tone from the top. Little wonder the malevolent 3rd rate numpties at the bottom are behaving in the inquiry in the way they are.
Gorgeously cold and frosty day here. A fresh parcel of spring bulbs has been delivered but I might put that off for a day or two.
As we keep seeing BBC is massively unreliable when it comes to this coverage and as Jeremy Bowen admits he isn't that bothered over the mistakes he has made...even ones that led to riots across the Middle East.
Its better to exchange rather than give things - you can always allow the other side to get slightly the better of the bargain if you're feeling generous.
I suppose the Elgin Marbles could be exchanged for Corfu returning to British rule.
It's easier to ignore unreasonable demands than reasonable ones.
Apparently the public doesn't even want these marbles
(Walmington-on-Sea Nimbyism applying only to things that OTHER people build.)
(It will be quite amusing when they find out.)
I've seen them 15-20 times. I have also seen the new Athens museum which wants to house them
Sometimes I go and have a look and think Meh, boring, other times I am struck, emotionally, by their power and grace, and by their remarkable history
The best solution is Osborne's "loan and rotate". Otherwise we really will get every countyy asking for X and X back, and then one of the world's greatest collections will be dismembered by spineless virtue signalling Woke lefties (there will always be some particular emotive reason to return this or that)
This solution requires compromise on both sides. If we are prepared to compromise, so must the Greeks. Otherwise they can fuck off, and we won't protect them when Turkey comes invadin'
If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill.
Proper first world problem.
As for the politics of it, there's an opportunity for SKS here imo. It can't go in the manifesto because you don't want to give the Tories the chance to turn the GE into a referendum on the Elgin marbles but "We are returning them!" would work nicely as a big surprise announcement on the morning after the Labour landslide. A bit like Gordon Brown did with BoE independence.
Evidence on face coverings is still uncertain, Harries says
As we've been reporting, the inquiry has just been talking about one of the most divisive policies of the pandemic: face masks.
Harries says there was little evidence on the effectiveness of homemade face coverings and she was concerned that recommending them could encourage people to socialise more and lead to a "false sense of security".
"If people just thought they could get a bit of t-shirt, put it around their face, and that would solve all our problems and we could go back to normal [then] that was not going to be a good public health intervention," she said.
But, more than three years later, she says the evidence on face coverings is still "uncertain", partly because it's so difficult to design a study to accurately test their effectiveness in real world conditions.
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
He probably thought he could have turned it into a wedge issue - the Left will have over everything to everyone! - but he failed
Boris would, instinctuively, have handled it better: he could have done a photo shoot with the Greek PM telling him to fuck off in Ancient Greek (which he probably speaks better than the Greek PM)
If everyone wore a top-quality, medical grade mask perfectly at all times, then they would have had a major effect. However, in reality, almost nobody did so.
Thus the effectiveness of the policy was reduced so far that the negative social effects of masking (which were manifold) in the later, post-vax stages of the pandemic, probably outweighed any clinical benefits from the policies.
Anyone remember the policy whereby you only had to put a mask on in a pub when stood up, or when you had to attend a wedding in masks unless you were the bride and/or were eating??
One day, someone will produce an entire hit black comedy based on some of this stuff.
TLDR: Russians have the advantage in terms of mass. Ukranians have an advantage in terms of survivability. The Russians lose (far?) more in terms of men and materiel, but they have more to lose. The Ukranians lose less (vehicles are damaged and can be repaired) but have less. Hence the stalemate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkpwTTR1wU
(That's not to say it shouldn't be done just that the 'goodwill' argument is specious.)