The whole thing with Elgin Marbles isn't even a gotcha out of left field. Everybody knows the situation, knows that highly likely to get mentioned. Its like the Falklands, you know they want them back, it will be raised, there is a standard response, everybody moves on.
Not just Sunak, but what morons do they have working in #10 for this to even become an issue.
Its like going to a North African market and being shocked you have to do the whole dance of everybody getting good deal after much back and forth.
Every time the Greeks ask for the Elgin Marbles we should chip a bit off of them and post it to them.
Or offer to return them to the country that gave them to Lord Elgin (Turkey)
Better yet, give them to the islands whose funds were looted by Pericles to build the Acropolis. It was imperialism - "Welcome to the Athenian Empire" - at sword point.
The Tudor Trust, one of the wealthiest charities in Britain, is dismissing its entire board as part of a diversity drive after branding itself “white and privileged”.
19. Cynical Genius Illusion: Cynical people are seen as smarter, but sizable research suggests they actually tend to be dumber. Cynicism is not a sign of intelligence but a substitute for it, a way to shield oneself from betrayal & disappointment without having to actually think.
I was just about to quote this because I think it's a particularly good one. I remember at school the most cynical people were usually the most stupid, but thought of themselves as more intelligent.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
You will have to name it. I'll be there in February. I was thinking of Cuisine Wat Damnak but will probably go to the one in Siem Reap
One of the more significant Prime Minister’s Questions…Starmer mocked and humiliated Sunak with a prime ministerial confidence…with echoes of Smith/ Blair re Major…will have further knocked Sunak’s confidence…Tory MPs will be more miserable..a misery that feeds on itself.
Northern Al said that too. I'm glad I didn't watch it. I hate seeing people getting verbally beaten up. It's just as painful as a punch in the nose. Still, Rishi will be free of all this soon. Just a bit more PMing to get through then the world's his oyster.
The whole thing with Elgin Marbles isn't even a gotcha out of left field. Everybody knows the situation, knows that highly likely to get mentioned. Its like the Falklands, you know they want them back, it will be raised, there is a standard response, everybody moves on.
Not just Sunak, but what morons do they have working in #10 for this to even become an issue.
Its like going to a North African market and being shocked you have to do the whole dance of everybody getting good deal after much back and forth.
Every time the Greeks ask for the Elgin Marbles we should chip a bit off of them and post it to them.
Or offer to return them to the country that gave them to Lord Elgin (Turkey)
Better yet, give them to the islands whose funds were looted by Pericles to build the Acropolis. It was imperialism - "Welcome to the Athenian Empire" - at sword point.
No. It is time to return the Elgin marbles to their true owners - the trillions of tiny organisms in ancient oceans who laid down their tiny little bodies to create the limestone that then metamorphosed into the marble that the evil, thoughtless Greeks carved into pointless arrogant humanoid shapes
Give them back to those that died to make them. The weird bits of krill in the sea 500 million years ago. Any other solution is racist
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Counterpoint - if you aren't enjoying a book and have hundreds of pages to go, give it up and start a new one. Sunk costs and all that.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Nope - It's is genuinely worth the money. I've been to plenty of high places where you feel that "Yes, it was good, but...."
First went there on someone else's dime, as well.
I have never had a Michelin star taster menu that hasn't been memorable and I have had quite a few.
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Black Lives Matter’s demonization of police led police to roll back activities in black communities, which caused murder rates to spike, and a net loss of thousands of black lives. BLM activists insist this effect is a myth, but multiple recent studies, such as Cheng & Long (2022) and Campbell (2023), suggest it’s real."
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
You will have to name it. I'll be there in February. I was thinking of Cuisine Wat Damnak but will probably go to the one in Siem Reap
I’ve got a picture of the restaurant
If you see this, as well, you’re definitely in the right place
The Tudor Trust, one of the wealthiest charities in Britain, is dismissing its entire board as part of a diversity drive after branding itself “white and privileged”.
Which is simply not true. The lunatics are nearly all on the left; they are often in power; this is a convenient lie, for them. Like pretending Tommy Robinson is as much a threat as jihadi- supporting Islamists and cultural Marxists
You’ve just sneered at the left’s lunatics. So it is true after all. It would be quite a push to suggest Jihadi-supporting Islamists or cultural Marxists are typical of the left. Just like left wingers choose to sneer at Trump or Milei.
The tweeter is right of centre himself so he’s not making a partisan jibe against the right.
Interesting anecdote time by the way.
I was on a call with a bunch of Argentinian colleagues yesterday, investigating what one of our clients could or couldn’t do in the face of regulatory and fiscal hurdles.
I asked whether the recent election of their own chainsaw wielding Truss might change any of our conclusions, and received a heartfelt message of hope for better times from my interlocutor, which her colleagues all seemed to echo.
So Milei seems popular among at least one little grouping of cosmopolitan urban professional types.
I think they have a point. Argentina badly needs to open itself up to international trade and norms. It’s just a shame its architect of change talks to his dead dog and wants to legalise the selling of children.
He's already de-prioritized establishing a market in children, I believe.
So much for principles and 'not like normal politicians'.
The whole thing with Elgin Marbles isn't even a gotcha out of left field. Everybody knows the situation, knows that highly likely to get mentioned. Its like the Falklands, you know they want them back, it will be raised, there is a standard response, everybody moves on.
Not just Sunak, but what morons do they have working in #10 for this to even become an issue.
Its like going to a North African market and being shocked you have to do the whole dance of everybody getting good deal after much back and forth.
Every time the Greeks ask for the Elgin Marbles we should chip a bit off of them and post it to them.
Or offer to return them to the country that gave them to Lord Elgin (Turkey)
Better yet, give them to the islands whose funds were looted by Pericles to build the Acropolis. It was imperialism - "Welcome to the Athenian Empire" - at sword point.
No. It is time to return the Elgin marbles to their true owners - the trillions of tiny organisms in ancient oceans who laid down their tiny little bodies to create the limestone that then metamorphosed into the marble that the evil, thoughtless Greeks carved into pointless arrogant humanoid shapes
Give them back to those that died to make them. The weird bits of krill in the sea 500 million years ago. Any other solution is racist
Little bastards polluted the atmosphere with oxygen though, and killed everything else.
Black Lives Matter’s demonization of police led police to roll back activities in black communities, which caused murder rates to spike, and a net loss of thousands of black lives. BLM activists insist this effect is a myth, but multiple recent studies, such as Cheng & Long (2022) and Campbell (2023), suggest it’s real."
"Why Labour may be forced to rejoin the European single market If the party wants strong economic growth it will need to think radically. By Andrew Marr"
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Or Harrods running out of your favourite chutney. You do get ones deserving of the label. But the notion that poor people don't or shouldn't care about (eg) the fine arts or (related) that rich people's social justice concerns are shallow and self-serving - this is the sort of pernicious nonsense I (and I think Tim) was thinking of.
Yes, but it’s a feature of the technocratic centre-left too. At times a major tenet of Blairism. There will be aspects of it in Starmer’s government as there were in Blair’s, particularly in education. Look out for constant emphasis on “STEM” and the importance of vocational qualifications.
And on the far left there’s a strain of anti-intellectualism - especially in the UK - that is forever in conflict with left wing intellectualism (and indeed intellectual snobbery).
Subjects such as medieval history are a waste of time and should not be funded by the taxpayer, Charles Clarke, the Education Secretary, has said.
He told a gathering at University College Worcester, a former polytechnic: “I don’t mind there being some medievalists around for ornamental purposes, but there is no reason for the State to pay for them.” Only subjects that had a “clear usefulness” should be publicly funded, he added.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Black Lives Matter’s demonization of police led police to roll back activities in black communities, which caused murder rates to spike, and a net loss of thousands of black lives. BLM activists insist this effect is a myth, but multiple recent studies, such as Cheng & Long (2022) and Campbell (2023), suggest it’s real."
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Black Lives Matter’s demonization of police led police to roll back activities in black communities, which caused murder rates to spike, and a net loss of thousands of black lives. BLM activists insist this effect is a myth, but multiple recent studies, such as Cheng & Long (2022) and Campbell (2023), suggest it’s real."
The cops refuse to police black areas unless they can asphyxiate people?
That's an unfair thing to say. The cops want to be able to *choose* between asphyxiation, shooting, or crippling them by chaining them up in a van and then driving over bumps at really high speed.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Counterpoint - if you aren't enjoying a book and have hundreds of pages to go, give it up and start a new one. Sunk costs and all that.
A good rule of thumb but you will sometimes miss out by applying it. There are books that take a while to grip but once they do they really do. Eg I had to persevere with my first Murakami novel and he's now one of my faves.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Nope - It's is genuinely worth the money. I've been to plenty of high places where you feel that "Yes, it was good, but...."
First went there on someone else's dime, as well.
I have never had a Michelin star taster menu that hasn't been memorable and I have had quite a few.
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Is that not just ... France?
I think it is wrong to suggest that only nose-in-the-air nobs care about the Elgin Marbles and similar.
For less pecunious Londoners, the range of free museums and attractions are an important potential cost-free enhancement to quality of life.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And this is why Plan A is for a 2nd May election. The bastards will be hesitant going on the attack knowing that he is trying to push a GE anyway. It gives him some protection.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Watching PMs questions I was left wondering whether we were watching another Neville Chamberlain end moment, the support and silence from his own party and cabinet was deafening.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
But there is zero prospect of anything better. Ride the next 6-7 months. lose and either be in a smaller opposition party or doing that lucrative post MP job you fancy.
Seriously - the Tories do NOT want to win in 2024 - the economy is struggling, everyone hates them. Better to get out and have some fun shouting at the government for a change.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
I disagree. Its hard for those like us to see how little PMQ's matters to the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Nope - It's is genuinely worth the money. I've been to plenty of high places where you feel that "Yes, it was good, but...."
First went there on someone else's dime, as well.
I have never had a Michelin star taster menu that hasn't been memorable and I have had quite a few.
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Is that not just ... France?
I think it is wrong to suggest that only nose-in-the-air nobs care about the Elgin Marbles and similar.
For less pecunious Londoners, the range of free museums and attractions are an important potential cost-free enhancement to quality of life.
The British Museum has 80,000 artifacts on display. And a further 8 million not on display. I think they could just about get by.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
I disagree. Its hard for those like us to see how little PMQ's matters to the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
The point is the effect on Tory confidence and how journalists see the parties. That does in turn definitely influence opinion.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And a decent clip played on WATO that confirmed the judgement of those who watched PMQs live: Starmer very good, Sunak floundering. Still, I guess nobody listens to R4 either.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
You will have to name it. I'll be there in February. I was thinking of Cuisine Wat Damnak but will probably go to the one in Siem Reap
I’ve got a picture of the restaurant
If you see this, as well, you’re definitely in the right place
Gosh that looks rough. Having said that in the early 90s I worked in Nicosia and was taken out to a number of places I would not have set foot in, if I was just passing, and had some great meals. Invariably the locals know their stuff.
Was the restaurant (if you can call it that) recommended @leon?
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Nope - It's is genuinely worth the money. I've been to plenty of high places where you feel that "Yes, it was good, but...."
First went there on someone else's dime, as well.
I have never had a Michelin star taster menu that hasn't been memorable and I have had quite a few.
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Is that not just ... France?
I think it is wrong to suggest that only nose-in-the-air nobs care about the Elgin Marbles and similar.
For less pecunious Londoners, the range of free museums and attractions are an important potential cost-free enhancement to quality of life.
The British Museum has 80,000 artifacts on display. And a further 8 million not on display. I think they could just about get by.
However…this summer we had a French family staying with us for a few nights on their way to Ireland, and they went to the British museum specifically to see the Elgin Marbles. So there’s no denying it is a tourist draw.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And this is why Plan A is for a 2nd May election. The bastards will be hesitant going on the attack knowing that he is trying to push a GE anyway. It gives him some protection.
I was commenting earlier today on twitter in a thread where someone pointed out that the Government Grant to St Helen’s was £130m in 2012 and is now £13m.
If Labour find a way of putting Local government finance reform on their manifesto that story is going to be front and center during the election campaign because the local councillors need to pin all the local Government finance issues on the Tory party to avoid losing their seats.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if going for a May 2nd election results in even fewer Tory MPs being returned
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And this is why Plan A is for a 2nd May election. The bastards will be hesitant going on the attack knowing that he is trying to push a GE anyway. It gives him some protection.
I was commenting earlier today on twitter in a thread where someone pointed out that the Government Grant to Oldham was £107m in 2010 and is now £7m.
If Labour find a way of putting Local government finance reform on their manifesto that story is going to be front and center during the election campaign because the local councillors need to pin all the local Government finance issues on the Tory party to avoid losing their seats.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if going for a May 2nd election results in even fewer Tory MPs being returned
If we had proper devolution councils should be able to raise or cut more of their council tax and be accountable for it without needing central government funding (and of course they can still increase council tax above 5% if a referendum approves it)
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
I believe it’s the accepted terminology in Greece, which is understandable since we’re talking about one of the greatest expressions of Greek culture removed in murky circumstances (and is more accurate since there are more pieces than those held by the BM). Britain has tended to be a taker rather than a giver, but it would probably rub salt in the wound if some great cultural symbol which had been despoiled while Britain was powerless was named after the dodgy geezer that slipped a local official dosh to turn a blind eye.
Interesting question as to what's the British Elgin/Parthenon Marbles. What great cultural symbol has been taken from the UK and we would like back?
I'd say the closest to Lord Elgin are probably Hollywood and the US tech industry. They've made off with quite a lot of our history and inventions and made them American. We should demand them back.
Cary Grant and Charlie Chaplin?
Maybe Magna Carta, although I think it's of more interest to Americans than it is to us.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And this is why Plan A is for a 2nd May election. The bastards will be hesitant going on the attack knowing that he is trying to push a GE anyway. It gives him some protection.
I was commenting earlier today on twitter in a thread where someone pointed out that the Government Grant to Oldham was £107m in 2010 and is now £7m.
If Labour find a way of putting Local government finance reform on their manifesto that story is going to be front and center during the election campaign because the local councillors need to pin all the local Government finance issues on the Tory party to avoid losing their seats.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if going for a May 2nd election results in even fewer Tory MPs being returned
If we had proper devolution councils should be able to raise or cut more of their council tax and be accountable for it without needing central government funding (and of course they can still increase council tax above 5% if a referendum approves it)
That requires reforming council tax - good luck trying to do that without revealing how different the North and South actually are
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
Having encountered the First World problem described (above), I would strongly advocate the tasting menu. With the matched wines. And the Chef's tasters.
It is one of the few high end restaurants I've been to where paying the bill feels like a reasonable deal - you definitely get your moneys worth there. Incredible food, tons of good staff.
lol. I never pay and I STILL hate them
I suggest you are a victim of Luxury Goods Syndrome. BECAUSE you pay a lot of money for all this faff and absurdity you cherish it more. Otherwise you’d feel horribly cheated
It’s like the way people always overrate 600 page books they’ve waded through. If you conclude at the end the book is crap that means you’ve wasted endless hours on crap
See: Veblen Goods
Nope - It's is genuinely worth the money. I've been to plenty of high places where you feel that "Yes, it was good, but...."
First went there on someone else's dime, as well.
I have never had a Michelin star taster menu that hasn't been memorable and I have had quite a few.
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Is that not just ... France?
I think it is wrong to suggest that only nose-in-the-air nobs care about the Elgin Marbles and similar.
For less pecunious Londoners, the range of free museums and attractions are an important potential cost-free enhancement to quality of life.
The British Museum has 80,000 artifacts on display. And a further 8 million not on display. I think they could just about get by.
However…this summer we had a French family staying with us for a few nights on their way to Ireland, and they went to the British museum specifically to see the Elgin Marbles. So there’s no denying it is a tourist draw.
I suspect people "particularly" go to see the most famous exhibit in the most famous museum in each city, regardless of what the exhibit happens to be.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
"Why Labour may be forced to rejoin the European single market If the party wants strong economic growth it will need to think radically. By Andrew Marr"
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
I disagree. Its hard for those like us to see how little PMQ's matters to the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
Causation and correlation. Sunak isn't going to lose because he was rubbish on PMQs. It's possible that he was rubbish on PMQs because he is going to lose. It's possible that he was rubbish and is going to lose, and these are what William Hills would call linked contingencies. And its possible that he was rubbish and he is going to lose and these are entirely unrelated facts.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
His MPs watch though.
And a decent clip played on WATO that confirmed the judgement of those who watched PMQs live: Starmer very good, Sunak floundering. Still, I guess nobody listens to R4 either.
As someone with significant (although hopefully improving) health issues I’ve got carers coming in for a couple of hours a day to support me. It’s sometimes very surprising the ignorance they display. I had occasion the other day to mention the Channel Islands; my carer, a normal, sensible woman brought up in UK didn’t appear to have heard of them.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
I believe it’s the accepted terminology in Greece, which is understandable since we’re talking about one of the greatest expressions of Greek culture removed in murky circumstances (and is more accurate since there are more pieces than those held by the BM). Britain has tended to be a taker rather than a giver, but it would probably rub salt in the wound if some great cultural symbol which had been despoiled while Britain was powerless was named after the dodgy geezer that slipped a local official dosh to turn a blind eye.
Interesting question as to what's the British Elgin/Parthenon Marbles. What great cultural symbol has been taken from the UK and we would like back?
I'd say the closest to Lord Elgin are probably Hollywood and the US tech industry. They've made off with quite a lot of our history and inventions and made them American. We should demand them back.
Cary Grant and Charlie Chaplin?
Maybe Magna Carta, although I think it's of more interest to Americans than it is to us.
In all seriousness, we should ask for the original Winnie the Pooh - and friends - who are imprisoned in the New York Public Library
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Nope. Barbecued dog. Served with salad and a dipping sauce. That’s it, no choice, you can’t even ask for it well done or “almost woofing”
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
The culture warriors, as always, are those trying to change things from things as they are - or were until yesterday to those as they think they ought to be. Always be very suspicious of anyone trying to change words.
I believe it’s the accepted terminology in Greece, which is understandable since we’re talking about one of the greatest expressions of Greek culture removed in murky circumstances (and is more accurate since there are more pieces than those held by the BM). Britain has tended to be a taker rather than a giver, but it would probably rub salt in the wound if some great cultural symbol which had been despoiled while Britain was powerless was named after the dodgy geezer that slipped a local official dosh to turn a blind eye.
Interesting question as to what's the British Elgin/Parthenon Marbles. What great cultural symbol has been taken from the UK and we would like back?
I'd say the closest to Lord Elgin are probably Hollywood and the US tech industry. They've made off with quite a lot of our history and inventions and made them American. We should demand them back.
Cary Grant and Charlie Chaplin?
Maybe Magna Carta, although I think it's of more interest to Americans than it is to us.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
Surely the people most likely to like the Elgan marbles would also like classical music.
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Nope. Barbecued dog. Served with salad and a dipping sauce. That’s it, no choice, you can’t even ask for it well done or “almost woofing”
On topic - That is a rather surprising poll. I can only assume that most people had heard Mr Sunak held one opinion and so decided to adopt the opposing one. It is sad that most of the time that seems a pretty sound strategy.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
His problem is that he’s trying to do Borisian Populism, and it’s simply not *him*
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Nope. Barbecued dog. Served with salad and a dipping sauce. That’s it, no choice, you can’t even ask for it well done or “almost woofing”
What does it taste like? (Don't say chicken.)
Like fibrous goose, or a sinewy duck. It’s actually not that bad. You would always prefer an Angus ribeye, but it isn’t hideous
The media showed Starmer flanked by Cooper and Lammy sitting opposite the Greek PM in an official meeting re the marbles apparently prior to the scheduled meeting with Sunak
Diplomatically silly by the Greek PM, but utterly childish and stupid by Sunak to abruptly cancel his meeting
I have no idea what he or his advisors were thinking, if indeed there were, but this unnecessary own goal speaks volumes why Sunak is not cutting through and is a disappointment
It speaks to the incompetency of those in Number 10 who are supposed to be helping Sunak. The diary for the week should have been locked down months in advance. There should have been no opportunity for Labour to get in first.
Do we actually know why the meeting was cancelled? It's pathetic if the reason given is that the Greek PM met with Labour first. That's the fault of those in Sunak's office in Number 10. Not the Greek PM. Not the Labour Party.
Is it because the Elgin Marbles/Parthenon Sculptures were raised? If so, it begs the question by whom? It is inconceivable that Sunak would think he could hold a one-on-one with this Greek counterpart and expect the issue not to be raised. It could have been a PR victory for both sides: "He raised it. I'm sympathetic but I said no. He said we should continue to work towards a solution. I agreed". Instead, it's a clusterfuck.
Of course, the only place I heard the issue raised was on Kuenssberg's show on Sunday morning. It's naive of the Government to think that a journalist wouldn't raise the issue. It was an open goal for the Greek PM and he put the ball in the back of the net.
If Number 10 have taken umbrage because they didn't like the comparison to the Mona Lisa or didn't like that a journalist raised the issue... tough.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
Surely the people most likely to like the Elgan marbles would also like classical music.
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
It is basically the Blue Wall retirees for whom he brought back Cameron to replace Braverman. A week later pisses them all off for nothing. I don't quite understand how he can be so unfocussed.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
His problem is that he’s trying to do Borisian Populism, and it’s simply not *him*
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
That might save a few seats
Does anyone truly know *why* Ronnie Radford is, though?
But this is true - people value authenticity; it's one of the reasons Boris got away with so much because he presented himself as a rascal, rather than pretending he wasn't.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
His problem is that he’s trying to do Borisian Populism, and it’s simply not *him*
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
That might save a few seats
You don't even have to go back as far as Ronnie Radford, some of the ruling classes don't even know who Conor McGregor is.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
Surely the people most likely to like the Elgan marbles would also like classical music.
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
It is basically the Blue Wall retirees for whom he brought back Cameron to replace Braverman. A week later pisses them all off for nothing. I don't quite understand how he can be so unfocussed.
This week the focus group liked XYZ so focus on that.
Next week the focus group hated X and Y so double down on Z..
On topic, @noneoftheabove makes a very good point - giving back the Marbles is not a costless exercise, it penalises the poor.
Those who get excited about returning the Marbles tend to be of a certain type, most importantly, they have money and the means to pop off to Athens to see the Marbles. They can indulge their morally superior stance while not losing anything - if anything, it is another excuse for another long weekend away.
The poor can't do that. Sure, the above may comment the poor can give up their two weeks in the Costa del Sol or the Canaries and spend it on a trip to see the Marbles if they mean that much but that is not how life works, especially given the CoL crisis etc. If the Marbles (or other artefacts) go abroad, then that effectively means they have been deprived of the right to see them.
That is especially the case when it comes to children where building cultural capital through things such as museum trips are so vital. Rich kids will be brought to see such artefacts by their parents on trips. Poor children will not.
So we should stop trying to make this out as a costless exercise. It is not, it is just that the cost is borne by the poorest of society.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
Surely the people most likely to like the Elgan marbles would also like classical music.
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
It is basically the Blue Wall retirees for whom he brought back Cameron to replace Braverman. A week later pisses them all off for nothing. I don't quite understand how he can be so unfocussed.
This week the focus group liked XYZ so focus on that.
Next week the focus group hated X and Y so double down on Z..
Cant we find him a focus group that feedbacks their dislike of focus groups?
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
*not* a new expression: just google for 'Parthenon Marbles'. It was in use by 2004.
Please don;'t gaslight me! I don't doubt that it has been used before, its just that up to this week I have not heard it used and heard Elgin marbles used hundreds of times. I suspect its arising from those who like to fight battles on behalf of others (Gays for Gaza etc), but that might just be me. Nevertheless I fully expect the BBC has an in house style guide updated just for this. (Item directly after 'Hamas, designated a terrorist organisation by the UK government, but not by us because we never use the word terrorist or terrorism except when we do, must say Parthenon Marbles, which are referred to by some as the Elgin marbles...)
On topic, @noneoftheabove makes a very good point - giving back the Marbles is not a costless exercise, it penalises the poor.
Those who get excited about returning the Marbles tend to be of a certain type, most importantly, they have money and the means to pop off to Athens to see the Marbles. They can indulge their morally superior stance while not losing anything - if anything, it is another excuse for another long weekend away.
The poor can't do that. Sure, the above may comment the poor can give up their two weeks in the Costa del Sol or the Canaries and spend it on a trip to see the Marbles if they mean that much but that is not how life works, especially given the CoL crisis etc. If the Marbles (or other artefacts) go abroad, then that effectively means they have been deprived of the right to see them.
That is especially the case when it comes to children where building cultural capital through things such as museum trips are so vital. Rich kids will be brought to see such artefacts by their parents on trips. Poor children will not.
So we should stop trying to make this out as a costless exercise. It is not, it is just that the cost is borne by the poorest of society.
My point was actually that the British Museum have 8 million artefacts not on display. Just 1% of what they have is on display, so they can probably get by without them. Sharing them seems fine too, probably get a decent influx of visitors each time they come back or are about to leave. Good marketing.
When you're comfortably off, have a secure future, nice house, kids in private school and holiday abroad 5 times a year, then the Elgin Marbles or whatever we're supposed to call them might become something you're interested in and want to keep or swap for some other coveted relic. If you're cold and skint, facing higher rent or mortgage, you're car has packed in and there ain't any convenient buses or trains to get you to your low paying job....you probably couldn't give a fuck and wonder why Sunak is dying on that particular hill. Proper first world problem.
It really isn't a first world problem
Think it through
London generates an enormous amount of tax for the UK Exchequer, which in the end goes to help those people who are cold and skint and waiting for a bus. You may believe the cold poor people don't get enough, or whatever, but that isn't the point. The UK needs London as one of the biggest money generating engines in the country, this is undisputed
Why is London so successful? Because it has a world class agglomeration of culture, restaurants, art, architecture, history, attractions, universities, museums - it is full of amazing things, which attract amazing people (as tourists or migrants) - they don't come to London for the weather and the beaches
Once you start to pull that apart then London declines in its allure. I know London haters will crow, but that is pure self harm, those who benefit from London tax money will all suffer in the end,. many of them far outside London
Right at the heart of all this is a place like the British Museum, which is almost as important to London as the Louvre is to Paris. The French know this, there is no way they would allow a truly pivotal exhibit in the Louvre to vanish to another country (thus ensuring the flow of many more, in the end, it won't stop with the Marbles)
So it may not matter immediately to the freezing person in Stockton, but it damn well matters once you dig a little deeper
I dislike the use of "first world problem" more generally because it does 2 things I think are socially damaging (you might even say they are bad for morale):
1. It's part of the same utilitarian approach to live, found among people on both the left and right, that says the only important thing in life is basic comfort and that beauty, the arts, you name it - are all symbols of decadence. That the only appropriate fun is proletarian fun. Taken to its logical end point it leads us to the sprawling shopping malls of middle America or the banlieue of Paris.
2. It's patronising and serves to make those beautiful things even more exclusive. It turns art and culture into a preserve for the rich. It forgets how many great artists, designers, musicians, writers in history have come from extreme poverty.
So I don't think the argument for restitution of the marbles should be about British people not caring or first world problems. It should be about putting an ancient work of art in its proper context and setting.
Comes from the same stable as 'luxury beliefs'.
No, there are problems which are not real problems. For any sensible value of real.
For example, you are at Le Montrachet. You are having the 9 course tasting menu. Due to the chefs tasters between courses and the wine, you lose track of whether you are on course 6 or 7.
This is Peak First World Problem.
Tasting Memus are an abomination
That is my Luxury Belief
The only abomination is the name and cost. The general idea of being able to sit down and get food brought without having to choose is brilliant. It makes trips to places like Japan or China so much more enjoyable and stress free.
There's a nice passage in Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential of him and a friend just going to a small street place, near the fish market in Tokyo IIRC, and asking for whatever they want to cook for the two Westerners who are interested in Japanese food, in succession.
Sometimes I live life on the edge, and order "soup of the day" as my starter without asking what it is first.
Is there an untapped market out there for eateries of whatever class where the customer eats what they are given and the place focusses on doing one thing really well, different every day? No choice. No faddists. Heaven.
Aren't there a few steak restaurants that do that? I was going to go to Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecote on my recent London trip but the queue was too fecking long, got pissed instead.
I can recommend a dog restaurant in Phnom Penh. Literally all it does is dog and people drive for many miles
If you like barbecued dog, it’s the place to be
Yeah but it might do different sorts of dog; dog on toast, dog and chips, chien avec veloute a la Agnes Sorel and so on. What you want is freedom from the tyranny of choice.
Nope. Barbecued dog. Served with salad and a dipping sauce. That’s it, no choice, you can’t even ask for it well done or “almost woofing”
What does it taste like? (Don't say chicken.)
Indeed, that’s cat, with the bonus of having four drumsticks.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
His problem is that he’s trying to do Borisian Populism, and it’s simply not *him*
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
That might save a few seats
Does anyone truly know *why* Ronnie Radford is, though?
But this is true - people value authenticity; it's one of the reasons Boris got away with so much because he presented himself as a rascal, rather than pretending he wasn't.
On topic, @noneoftheabove makes a very good point - giving back the Marbles is not a costless exercise, it penalises the poor.
Those who get excited about returning the Marbles tend to be of a certain type, most importantly, they have money and the means to pop off to Athens to see the Marbles. They can indulge their morally superior stance while not losing anything - if anything, it is another excuse for another long weekend away.
The poor can't do that. Sure, the above may comment the poor can give up their two weeks in the Costa del Sol or the Canaries and spend it on a trip to see the Marbles if they mean that much but that is not how life works, especially given the CoL crisis etc. If the Marbles (or other artefacts) go abroad, then that effectively means they have been deprived of the right to see them.
That is especially the case when it comes to children where building cultural capital through things such as museum trips are so vital. Rich kids will be brought to see such artefacts by their parents on trips. Poor children will not.
So we should stop trying to make this out as a costless exercise. It is not, it is just that the cost is borne by the poorest of society.
My point was actually that the British Museum have 8 million artefacts not on display. Just 1% of what they have is on display, so they can probably get by without them. Sharing them seems fine too, probably get a decent influx of visitors each time they come back or are about to leave. Good marketing.
I also want to know how come Sunak has such a low view of British history that he believes a load of boring foreign rocks should have pride of place in the BRITISH Museum.
Well PMQs today was extremely entertaining. Sunak looked crestfallen throughout much of it.
Some good lines delivered by Royale, albeit into an open goal. The gag about the Reverse Midas touch and the "everything turns to... maybe the Home Secretary can help me with the last line" follow-up to Clever Jimmy was inspired.
But – WTF is this policy about a 20% discount for employers to hire foreign brickies and plasterers? Is that widely known? Strikes me as utterly toxic for the government as creates a massive perverse incentive for companies to use foreign labour rather than homegrown workers.
Am I the only one on here noticing the increase in the phrase Parthenon frieze as opposed to Elgin marbles? Cannot recall it before this week. Does this come from somewhere? The old culture warriors turning their sights on the next big thing?
The 'culture warriors' are those seeking an argument rather than agreement with Greece, surely ?
I just think it’s striking how the use has changed and recently.
Sunak’s dire PMQ will have surely made his problems worse.
No one watches or cares, beyond weird obsessives like us.
It influences the mood in Westminster, and the morale of activists, and seems through to journalists and those who are watching. That it doesn’t directly influence many voters first hand is missing the point.
Yeah this is right. If he was being consistently impressive in the Commons that would influence the lobby journos and his party, which in turn would influence the general perception. Obviously it's not the most important thing, but it is significant.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
His problem is that he’s trying to do Borisian Populism, and it’s simply not *him*
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
That might save a few seats
You don't even have to go back as far as Ronnie Radford, some of the ruling classes don't even know who Conor McGregor is.
I have an extremely high regard for myself, but even I don’t see myself as a member of the “ruling classes”
I have no desire to rule anyone. Unless I am given the powers of a total dictator
PMQs summary for the 99.9% who don't watch it. Poor old Rishi, taken to the cleaners by an increasingly confident Starmer. The PM is a dead man walking, and I've no idea how he can turn it around.
Starmer's Midas quip was even borderline funny, which is a first from him.
Well PMQs today was extremely entertaining. Sunak looked crestfallen throughout much of it.
Some good lines delivered by Royale, albeit into an open goal. The gag about the Reverse Midas touch and the "everything turns to... maybe the Home Secretary can help me with the last line" follow-up to Clever Jimmy was inspired.
But – WTF is this policy about a 20% discount for employers to hire foreign brickies and plasterers? Is that widely known? Strikes me as utterly toxic for the government as creates a massive perverse incentive for companies to use foreign labour rather than homegrown workers.
It has been in place for a while. I would assume logic is if £30,000 is the national average salary for a particular job, then typical salaries for that job would be something like £25,000-£35,000 especially given regional cost of living differences. And new hires probably at the lower end of the range.
PMQs summary for the 99.9% who don't watch it. Poor old Rishi, taken to the cleaners by an increasingly confident Starmer. The PM is a dead man walking, and I've no idea how he can turn it around.
Starmer's Midas quip was even borderline funny, which is a first from him.
The quip itself was mildly amusing; the follow-up aimed at Cleverly was ROFL good.
Well PMQs today was extremely entertaining. Sunak looked crestfallen throughout much of it.
Some good lines delivered by Royale, albeit into an open goal. The gag about the Reverse Midas touch and the "everything turns to... maybe the Home Secretary can help me with the last line" follow-up to Clever Jimmy was inspired.
But – WTF is this policy about a 20% discount for employers to hire foreign brickies and plasterers? Is that widely known? Strikes me as utterly toxic for the government as creates a massive perverse incentive for companies to use foreign labour rather than homegrown workers.
It has been in place for a while. I would assume logic is if £30,000 is the national average salary for a particular job, then typical salaries for that job would be something like £25,000-£35,000 especially given regional cost of living differences. And new hires probably at the lower end of the range.
But, yes, politically hard to sell.
Sorry, still don't understand. Do employers get paid by the government to hire these blokes, or something else?
Why don't the Tories just call an election and put us all out of their misery?
Why didn't Brown do so in 2009? As he wanted to stay in power as long as he could, same as Sunak
Well, surely someone at No 10 can cite a bit of Modern History for Sunak and point out that holding on while hopeless and helpless does nobody, including the PM, and, more importantly, the country any good.
Keir Starmer "showed his true colours" when he chose Beethoven's Ode to Joy as a song that sums up Labour, says Rishi Sunak, adding it's "literally the anthem of the EU"
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
Bizarre. Starmer 'showed his true colours' by liking one of the greatest pieces of music ever, composed in 1824. Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It also shows the contempt of Sunak for the voters he's trying to appeal to with all this shit. He sees them as the sort of people who get a buzz out of hanging onto Greece's marbles and think liking Beethoven is unpatriotic. How jaundiced can you get about what us Brits are all about? Talk about the poverty of low expectations.
Surely the people most likely to like the Elgan marbles would also like classical music.
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
It is basically the Blue Wall retirees for whom he brought back Cameron to replace Braverman. A week later pisses them all off for nothing. I don't quite understand how he can be so unfocussed.
This week the focus group liked XYZ so focus on that.
Next week the focus group hated X and Y so double down on Z..
Cant we find him a focus group that feedbacks their dislike of focus groups?
The Tory party are down to a “get our core vote to vote” strategy. That can only be done by finding the triggers that will get them to go out the door on May 2 and vote.
And that needs focus groups - problem is the only thing these focus groups are demonstrating is that when combined there is no consensus in what is left of the Tory core vote.
Heck how can there be, the party doesn’t stand for anything and can’t offer anyone anything except a tiny bit of extra cash that will disappear instantly into February’s more expensive fuel bill
Well PMQs today was extremely entertaining. Sunak looked crestfallen throughout much of it.
Some good lines delivered by Royale, albeit into an open goal. The gag about the Reverse Midas touch and the "everything turns to... maybe the Home Secretary can help me with the last line" follow-up to Clever Jimmy was inspired.
But – WTF is this policy about a 20% discount for employers to hire foreign brickies and plasterers? Is that widely known? Strikes me as utterly toxic for the government as creates a massive perverse incentive for companies to use foreign labour rather than homegrown workers.
It has been in place for a while. I would assume logic is if £30,000 is the national average salary for a particular job, then typical salaries for that job would be something like £25,000-£35,000 especially given regional cost of living differences. And new hires probably at the lower end of the range.
But, yes, politically hard to sell.
Sorry, still don't understand. Do employers get paid by the government to hire these blokes, or something else?
No, it just allows you to bring in a cheaper overseas worker while forcing the local one to take a pay cut
PMQs summary for the 99.9% who don't watch it. Poor old Rishi, taken to the cleaners by an increasingly confident Starmer. The PM is a dead man walking, and I've no idea how he can turn it around.
Starmer's Midas quip was even borderline funny, which is a first from him.
The quip itself was mildly amusing; the follow-up aimed at Cleverly was ROFL good.
It wasn’t, tho, was it?
You weren’t actually “rolling on the floor laughing” at a joke by Sir Kir Royale
I doubt if anyone has ever rolled on the floor laughing at a joke by anyone, let alone Sir Royale
The closest I have come is being doubled over with laughter at an early Eddie Izzard gig (when he was so so good), when I laughed so much it genuinely hurt, even then I didn’t actually collapse to the ground and roll around in agony like I had some fucking kidney stone, you stupid fucking twat
Comments
Listening to Beethoven is anti British?
WTAFF?
Give them back to those that died to make them. The weird bits of krill in the sea 500 million years ago. Any other solution is racist
As far as meals without a choice are concerned I once went to a lorry drivers stop recommended to me in France. No choice, dead cheap and fantastic. Annoyingly we were there for a restaurant I wanted to go to in the evening and I was still stuffed.
On three occasions I have had superb meals in cheap places in France, although I have had some poor stuff that cost a lot more in France also.
Black Lives Matter’s demonization of police led police to roll back activities in black communities, which caused murder rates to spike, and a net loss of thousands of black lives. BLM activists insist this effect is a myth, but multiple recent studies, such as Cheng & Long (2022) and Campbell (2023), suggest it’s real."
https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/30-useful-principles-autumn-2023
If you see this, as well, you’re definitely in the right place
So much for principles and 'not like normal politicians'.
https://www.classical-music.com/articles/how-britain-censored-german-composers-during-ww1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event
#Justice4AnaerobicLife
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/medieval-history-is-bunk-says-clarke-czsggs5gsvc
Subjects such as medieval history are a waste of time and should not be funded by the taxpayer, Charles Clarke, the Education Secretary, has said.
He told a gathering at University College Worcester, a former polytechnic: “I don’t mind there being some medievalists around for ornamental purposes, but there is no reason for the State to pay for them.” Only subjects that had a “clear usefulness” should be publicly funded, he added.
Starmer accuses the prime minister of a "one-man war on reality" trib.al/WP9TLdm
https://x.com/business/status/1729838967866966130?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
between asphyxiation, shooting, or crippling them by chaining them up in a van and then driving over bumps at really high speed.
I think it is wrong to suggest that only nose-in-the-air nobs care about the Elgin Marbles and similar.
For less pecunious Londoners, the range of free museums and attractions are an important potential cost-free enhancement to quality of life.
Seriously - the Tories do NOT want to win in 2024 - the economy is struggling, everyone hates them. Better to get out and have some fun shouting at the government for a change.
Still, I guess nobody listens to R4 either.
Was the restaurant (if you can call it that) recommended @leon?
If Labour find a way of putting Local government finance reform on their manifesto that story is going to be front and center during the election campaign because the local councillors need to pin all the local Government finance issues on the Tory party to avoid losing their seats.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if going for a May 2nd election results in even fewer Tory MPs being returned
Edit found the tweet and got the correct figures https://x.com/paulmjlynch/status/1729828896596459648?s=46&t=cxkq0jndvkhIwWZCCEL3QQ
They may not be 100% accurate but it reflect similar things I’ve heard locally
Sunak's an idiot, isn't he?
It makes the film Die Hard a film for UK hating Europhiles.
When his troops see him floundering like this, and are already restive - it doesn't help.
*ever = the last 4 years, since it was built
OTOH he might of course win.
WE WANT POOH BEAR BACK
https://www.nypl.org/about/locations/schwarzman/childrens-center-42nd-street/pooh
I’m semi serious. For many people they are as iconic as the Elgin Marbles
Every day Sunak finds a more niche hill with an even smaller audience of believers to die on
He is a billionaire merchant banker with no deep rooted understanding of ordinary British society, I suspect. This is not a pejorative remark about his ethnicity, merely a fact, he’s the son of immigrants who went straight to Winchester College. I wonder if he has ever ordered a pint in a pub, for instance, or if he knows who Ronnie Radford is, and why
I don’t dislike him. He should just be himself. A rich guy with a good brain going down to defeat, who has quite right wing beliefs on economics and culture (I believe him on all that)
Scrap the populism, it will never work, leave it to others in the party. Be the dry but authentic technocrat and sneer at Starmer’s pathetic fence sitting, Corbyn-tolerance and economic ignorance (and Starmer is indeed an economic ignoramus with zero ideas)
That might save a few seats
I HAVE eaten some hideous foods, dog ain’t one
Do we actually know why the meeting was cancelled? It's pathetic if the reason given is that the Greek PM met with Labour first. That's the fault of those in Sunak's office in Number 10. Not the Greek PM. Not the Labour Party.
Is it because the Elgin Marbles/Parthenon Sculptures were raised? If so, it begs the question by whom? It is inconceivable that Sunak would think he could hold a one-on-one with this Greek counterpart and expect the issue not to be raised. It could have been a PR victory for both sides: "He raised it. I'm sympathetic but I said no. He said we should continue to work towards a solution. I agreed". Instead, it's a clusterfuck.
Of course, the only place I heard the issue raised was on Kuenssberg's show on Sunday morning. It's naive of the Government to think that a journalist wouldn't raise the issue. It was an open goal for the Greek PM and he put the ball in the back of the net.
If Number 10 have taken umbrage because they didn't like the comparison to the Mona Lisa or didn't like that a journalist raised the issue... tough.
But this is true - people value authenticity; it's one of the reasons Boris got away with so much because he presented himself as a rascal, rather than pretending he wasn't.
CTV News"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-zcHGWn31Y
Next week the focus group hated X and Y so double down on Z..
Those who get excited about returning the Marbles tend to be of a certain type, most importantly, they have money and the means to pop off to Athens to see the Marbles. They can indulge their morally superior stance while not losing anything - if anything, it is another excuse for another long weekend away.
The poor can't do that. Sure, the above may comment the poor can give up their two weeks in the Costa del Sol or the Canaries and spend it on a trip to see the Marbles if they mean that much but that is not how life works, especially given the CoL crisis etc. If the Marbles (or other artefacts) go abroad, then that effectively means they have been deprived of the right to see them.
That is especially the case when it comes to children where building cultural capital through things such as museum trips are so vital. Rich kids will be brought to see such artefacts by their parents on trips. Poor children will not.
So we should stop trying to make this out as a costless exercise. It is not, it is just that the cost is borne by the poorest of society.
BBC News - Nottingham City Council declares itself effectively bankrupt
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67380096
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67564479
Might as well just not bother with it, as its just going to be News at 10.30 now. How much have they pissed up the wall on BBC Three?
£1,607.76 will be going up to £1,768.54 next year. Band A
Some good lines delivered by Royale, albeit into an open goal. The gag about the Reverse Midas touch and the "everything turns to... maybe the Home Secretary can help me with the last line" follow-up to Clever Jimmy was inspired.
But – WTF is this policy about a 20% discount for employers to hire foreign brickies and plasterers? Is that widely known? Strikes me as utterly toxic for the government as creates a massive perverse incentive for companies to use foreign labour rather than homegrown workers.
I have no desire to rule anyone. Unless I am given the powers of a total dictator
But, yes, politically hard to sell.
And that needs focus groups - problem is the only thing these focus groups are demonstrating is that when combined there is no consensus in what is left of the Tory core vote.
Heck how can there be, the party doesn’t stand for anything and can’t offer anyone anything except a tiny bit of extra cash that will disappear instantly into February’s more expensive fuel bill
@tobyhornettIn 2 hours, @nickwallis will be delivering a keynote in this room on the role of lawyers in the #PostOfficeScandal - can't wait.
It's @CraftyCounselHQ's Disputes Day.
Thanks also to @RichardMoorhead and @LBCWiseCounsel for their contribution to this debate"
https://twitter.com/tobyhornett/status/1729763675605487883
You weren’t actually “rolling on the floor laughing” at a joke by Sir Kir Royale
I doubt if anyone has ever rolled on the floor laughing at a joke by anyone, let alone Sir Royale
The closest I have come is being doubled over with laughter at an early Eddie Izzard gig (when he was so so good), when I laughed so much it genuinely hurt, even then I didn’t actually collapse to the ground and roll around in agony like I had some fucking kidney stone, you stupid fucking twat