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Is this the strategy Sunak should follow to win the election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Of course working class voters and non graduates were also more hit by low skilled immigration undercutting their wages, hence they voted Leave
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Sure.
    I am sure you wouldn't say that about Muslims, religious freedom of worship however is vital for all religions and should not be disrupted in this disrespectful way
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    This should be an easy win for Starmer.

    The BBC’s hopes of retaining the Six Nations have suffered a further blow after the Government refused calls to protect it from the threat of pay-TV.

    Ministers are also set to ignore those to have played in and broadcast the iconic competition, who want it added to the so-called ‘Crown Jewels’ list of sporting events that cannot be hidden behind a paywall.

    The calls came after the BBC’s outgoing director of sport, Barbara Slater, warned it faced a fight to retain the Six Nations and her counterpart at joint rights holder ITV, Niall Sloane, said fears the competition could be lost from terrestrial television were “well-founded”.

    That followed the news, first revealed by Telegraph Sport, that the tournament could be sold alongside a new world league, increasing the chances of it not remaining entirely free-to-air.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/11/23/bbc-six-nations-government-defies-pay-tv-crown-jewells/

    Voters are more interested in League in the Red Wall.
    Or football even more, the bluewall however prefers rugby union and it is those seats Sunak needs to preserve
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    We'll need something to give thanks for first, shirley?
    That the UK is awesome, so many Johnny Foreigners want to live here and the fact that Scotland, London, and the UK are ruled by non whites, hurrah for tolerance and diversity.
    Yet a white male born in Surrey looks like becoming next UK PM
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Three sources familiar with the duchy’s expenditure confirmed the estate was using revenues collected from dead citizens to refurbish its profitable property portfolio, making considerable savings for the estate. One said duchy insiders regarded the bona vacantia expenditure, which has until now not been publicly disclosed, as akin to “free money” and a “slush fund”

    Bona vacantia money either goes the the Treasury or to the Duchy.

    The Duchy appears to be using it to improve the environmental footprint of its properties and/or bring old properties back into use. I am not convinced that the Treasury uses it as productively.

    But in any event, it’s a little unpleasant of you to try and turn it into a personal attack on the King. This is a historical anomaly that know one has thought about in the past. I doubt he has particularly noticed it (you may have realised that the Duchy is overseen by a Cabinet Minister* appointed by the PM).

    * autocorrect changed that to “Cabinet Mobster”…
    Yes, it does seem to be a storm in a teacup.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,579

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    July 4th?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,873
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
    The problem for Wilders is if he goes into Government, how much compromising will he have to do to accommodate both the VVD and NSC? At what point does he stop becoming the outsider and become part of the establishment?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Why?
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
    Looked at another way, the winning post is 76/150 seats. If Wilders were to attempt to form a majority government, his party would need to be a minority in it, albeit a large one.

    Where's the fun in that?
  • This should be an easy win for Starmer.

    The BBC’s hopes of retaining the Six Nations have suffered a further blow after the Government refused calls to protect it from the threat of pay-TV.

    Ministers are also set to ignore those to have played in and broadcast the iconic competition, who want it added to the so-called ‘Crown Jewels’ list of sporting events that cannot be hidden behind a paywall.

    The calls came after the BBC’s outgoing director of sport, Barbara Slater, warned it faced a fight to retain the Six Nations and her counterpart at joint rights holder ITV, Niall Sloane, said fears the competition could be lost from terrestrial television were “well-founded”.

    That followed the news, first revealed by Telegraph Sport, that the tournament could be sold alongside a new world league, increasing the chances of it not remaining entirely free-to-air.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/11/23/bbc-six-nations-government-defies-pay-tv-crown-jewells/

    Yeah but rugger is for poshos...
    It has always amused my friends that normally I am a very calm non sweary person but that always changed when I watch rugby union match involving England.
    Well the way they play, kick kick kick kick kick...give the massive battering ram in the centre one touch a game....more kicking....no arm tackles....it could drive even a good Muslim boy like yourself to drink.
    I once shouted 'truck and fucking trailer' so loud people 15 street away heard it.
    As long as you didn't get De Kock out.
  • Sean_F said:

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Why?
    We shouldn’t be celebrating Thanksgiving
  • Sean_F said:

    Three sources familiar with the duchy’s expenditure confirmed the estate was using revenues collected from dead citizens to refurbish its profitable property portfolio, making considerable savings for the estate. One said duchy insiders regarded the bona vacantia expenditure, which has until now not been publicly disclosed, as akin to “free money” and a “slush fund”

    Bona vacantia money either goes the the Treasury or to the Duchy.

    The Duchy appears to be using it to improve the environmental footprint of its properties and/or bring old properties back into use. I am not convinced that the Treasury uses it as productively.

    But in any event, it’s a little unpleasant of you to try and turn it into a personal attack on the King. This is a historical anomaly that know one has thought about in the past. I doubt he has particularly noticed it (you may have realised that the Duchy is overseen by a Cabinet Minister* appointed by the PM).

    * autocorrect changed that to “Cabinet Mobster”…
    Yes, it does seem to be a storm in a teacup.
    It was too boring for me to even read.
  • carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    July 4th?
    I'd celebrate the anniversary of The Battle of Long Island.

    When we gave Washington a damn good thrashing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Yep.
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
    Careful, you'll have the Dutch secret service on your ass
  • kinabalu said:

    How about a No Leavers rule for this thread so we can have a nice elevated conversation?

    Less of a miasma of whiffy pants as well of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Yep.
    Yes, have another go at Christians, ha, ha, ha. How daring!

    If they had disrupted worship at a Mosque they would correctly have got short shrift. Anglican Christians are sometimes too tolerant for their own good
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241

    Sandpit said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    Not just you, Black Friday is a result of Thanksgiving, so it is inevitable.
    How long before “Black Friday” is racist?
    Already is.

    “BUT WHEN IS WHITE FRIDAY?”



    https://twitter.com/mnrrntt/status/1200122137178181633
    I want an Asian Friday!
    Black Friday.

    Blue Monday.

    We need a colour for each day of the week.
    We have White Wednesday (ERM exit) and Black Thursday (87 crash)

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.


    Setting up the PVV as the principal opposition to a coalition of all the other major parties would be a grievous error. Let them govern and f*** it up
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,071
    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Sean_F said:

    Three sources familiar with the duchy’s expenditure confirmed the estate was using revenues collected from dead citizens to refurbish its profitable property portfolio, making considerable savings for the estate. One said duchy insiders regarded the bona vacantia expenditure, which has until now not been publicly disclosed, as akin to “free money” and a “slush fund”

    Bona vacantia money either goes the the Treasury or to the Duchy.

    The Duchy appears to be using it to improve the environmental footprint of its properties and/or bring old properties back into use. I am not convinced that the Treasury uses it as productively.

    But in any event, it’s a little unpleasant of you to try and turn it into a personal attack on the King. This is a historical anomaly that know one has thought about in the past. I doubt he has particularly noticed it (you may have realised that the Duchy is overseen by a Cabinet Minister* appointed by the PM).

    * autocorrect changed that to “Cabinet Mobster”…
    Yes, it does seem to be a storm in a teacup.
    Tis not a problem but he should add saprophyte to his list of honorifics.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    HYUFD said:

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Yep.
    Yes, have another go at Christians, ha, ha, ha. How daring!

    If they had disrupted worship at a Mosque they would correctly have got short shrift. Anglican Christians are sometimes too tolerant for their own good
    My disdain for theists covers all and sundry equally
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    HYUFD said:

    Of course working class voters and non graduates were also more hit by low skilled immigration undercutting their wages, hence they voted Leave

    And have duly seen immigration go through the roof. Funny old world.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    July 4th?
    I'd celebrate the anniversary of The Battle of Long Island.

    When we gave Washington a damn good thrashing.
    Don’t you mean Brooklyn Heights?

    It wasn’t really Washington in command though - he was in Manhattan at the time IIRC. He organised the evacuation though
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    viewcode said:

    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.






    ...

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,071

    Sean_F said:

    Three sources familiar with the duchy’s expenditure confirmed the estate was using revenues collected from dead citizens to refurbish its profitable property portfolio, making considerable savings for the estate. One said duchy insiders regarded the bona vacantia expenditure, which has until now not been publicly disclosed, as akin to “free money” and a “slush fund”

    Bona vacantia money either goes the the Treasury or to the Duchy.

    The Duchy appears to be using it to improve the environmental footprint of its properties and/or bring old properties back into use. I am not convinced that the Treasury uses it as productively.

    But in any event, it’s a little unpleasant of you to try and turn it into a personal attack on the King. This is a historical anomaly that know one has thought about in the past. I doubt he has particularly noticed it (you may have realised that the Duchy is overseen by a Cabinet Minister* appointed by the PM).

    * autocorrect changed that to “Cabinet Mobster”…
    Yes, it does seem to be a storm in a teacup.
    Tis not a problem but he should add saprophyte to his list of honorifics.
    You can get pills for that. 😃
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course working class voters and non graduates were also more hit by low skilled immigration undercutting their wages, hence they voted Leave

    And have duly seen immigration go through the roof. Funny old world.
    From the EU it hasn't
    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/
  • Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932
  • HYUFD said:

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Sure.
    I am sure you wouldn't say that about Muslims, religious freedom of worship however is vital for all religions and should not be disrupted in this disrespectful way
    I am anti religion when it comes to all faiths.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    My word, I agree with Just Stop Oil in this instance.

    Just Stop Oil disrupt St Paul's Thanksgiving service with silent protest in front of hundreds of worshippers

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1727692288799707541

    Can we not just section these people? They have clearly lost their minds.
    Christians? Sure.
    I am sure you wouldn't say that about Muslims, religious freedom of worship however is vital for all religions and should not be disrupted in this disrespectful way
    I am anti religion when it comes to all faiths.
    Though I assume you wouldn't section your own Muslim parents?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
  • HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Taking a purely autarchic, protectionist approach to migration: we would have a points system that prioritises unskilled immigrants and keeps out graduates and skilled trades.

    Not great for long term economic growth, but the approach Germany, and more recently France, have taken. Or, on a completely caste system basis, the UAE.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    We'll need something to give thanks for first, shirley?
    That the UK is awesome, so many Johnny Foreigners want to live here and the fact that Scotland, London, and the UK are ruled by non whites, hurrah for tolerance and diversity.
    Yet a white male born in Surrey looks like becoming next UK PM
    It is an indication of just how tolerant we have become as a Nation that a white male born in Surrey can aspire to the highest political post in the Land.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I've noticed a tiny amount of Thanksgiving creep into the UK today, this year.

    Anyone else noticed this?

    Please tell me we're not going to be colonised by that as well.

    When my family moved back from America we held thanksgiving each year, at least until we all went our seperate ways.

    It's a lovely celebration. Family and friends, eating and drinking, a bit like Christmas without the materialism and consumerism.
    Don't care.

    We are not American.
    If we get another bank holiday out of it then I am all in favour of a UK Thanksgiving.
    We'll need something to give thanks for first, shirley?
    That the UK is awesome, so many Johnny Foreigners want to live here and the fact that Scotland, London, and the UK are ruled by non whites, hurrah for tolerance and diversity.
    Yet a white male born in Surrey looks like becoming next UK PM
    It is an indication of just how tolerant we have become as a Nation that a white male born in Surrey can rise to the hoghest political post in the Land.
    Son of a toolmaker.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,374
    viewcode said:

    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.

    Watched the first few minutes, my wife is not a fan but prepared to indulge me for a few minutes, the colourisation work looks decent. A few new effects, new music plus the Cloister Bell. Apparently there’s new dialogue too. I’ll watch it all tomorrow afternoon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
    The problem for Wilders is if he goes into Government, how much compromising will he have to do to accommodate both the VVD and NSC? At what point does he stop becoming the outsider and become part of the establishment?
    I'm sure Wilders can become Prime Minister if he wishes: the question is how much compromising he is willing to do to get to the top.

    Too much, and he will (a) become part of the establishment, and (b) create an opportunity for another party to his right.

    Too little, and he won't end up in government. Which might suit him well (the @HYUFD thesis), or it might mean that some other bunch of politicians take the credit for falling interest rates spurring economic growth. (And said other politicians may steal a few of his policies too.)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    24 hours on from the Dutch election and there still seems to be a sense of shock and "bewildersment" over what happened. The PVV got by far its best ever result with 23.5% of the vote and 37 seats.

    To this observer, the VVD leader Yesilgoz made the cardinal error of conceding she could work with the PVV which effectively legitimised voting for the PVV as they could be part or indeed lead the Government. Omtzigt's NSC, having been on course to win 30 seats a few weeks ago, ended up with 20, again, I think, due to equivocating on working with the PVV.

    Tindemanns and the Green-Labour Bloc had a decent night and could lead a Government consisting of themselves, the VVD and NSC plus perhaps D66 and the CDA (the lattre two having taken big losses). All the minor parties lost ground as 106 of the 150 seats went to the main four groups.

    A PPV-VVD-NSC coalition would also enjoy a majority in the House of Representatives so the question for both the VVD and NSC is whether they would rather be junior partners in a PVV Government or equals in a Green-Labour Government.

    Which would shoot Wilders fine, largest party, excluded from government by the establishment and with opposition largely to himself
    The problem for Wilders is if he goes into Government, how much compromising will he have to do to accommodate both the VVD and NSC? At what point does he stop becoming the outsider and become part of the establishment?
    I'm sure Wilders can become Prime Minister if he wishes: the question is how much compromising he is willing to do to get to the top.

    Too much, and he will (a) become part of the establishment, and (b) create an opportunity for another party to his right.

    Too little, and he won't end up in government. Which might suit him well (the @HYUFD thesis), or it might mean that some other bunch of politicians take the credit for falling interest rates spurring economic growth. (And said other politicians may steal a few of his policies too.)
    History suggests it’s best to keep people like him out of coalitions if possible.

    Extremes always do well in coalition government because they can blame their more moderate partners for failures. Centrist minor parties always do badly because the dominant party can blame them for compromises to the programme.

    Don’t do a deal with Wilders.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141
    As an aside, if it is true that the largest share of British immigration is coming from people on student visas, then that does suggest (given record numbers incoming) that there might a loophole or two there that is being exploited.

    (It also might mean that UK universities, who benefit from higher fees from foreign students, are prioritising revenues over educating the native population.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    TimS said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Taking a purely autarchic, protectionist approach to migration: we would have a points system that prioritises unskilled immigrants and keeps out graduates and skilled trades.

    Not great for long term economic growth, but the approach Germany, and more recently France, have taken. Or, on a completely caste system basis, the UAE.
    So great the AfD and Le Pen are surging in polls in both nations
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    No, import skilled workers we are short of and protect low paid workers wages
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    viewcode said:

    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.

    The special effects are risible, but it has worn well. Effects are no substitute for script and characterisation, and it has those.

    It's funny how the future looked from the Sixties.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.

    The special effects are risible, but it has worn well. Effects are no substitute for script and characterisation, and it has those.

    It's funny how the future looked from the Sixties.
    Especially when they took the plunger.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, if it is true that the largest share of British immigration is coming from people on student visas, then that does suggest (given record numbers incoming) that there might a loophole or two there that is being exploited.

    (It also might mean that UK universities, who benefit from higher fees from foreign students, are prioritising revenues over educating the native population.)

    Inflation means the costs of British students exceeds the revenue, at least for undergraduates. Hence the dumbing down of courses, overcrowding of teaching sessions and active importation of overseas students.

    It's just economics in action.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Someone at work had a go at figuring out how long it will take for the full expensing policy to actually become a net gain for the government and he thinks it will require 11 more years but after that inflection it will be hugely positive and he lamented that such a policy wasn't put in place in 2010 when the current lot took power rather than lowering corporation tax to 19%.

    The rating on this policy was the best I've ever seen in terms of economic multipliers but it will require quite a long time to become effective as the additional investment cumulates over many years and returns from the investment also cumulates.

    One change he said he would make is to use the Brexit freedoms to give British companies an incremental leg up of a 150% rebate so a domestic company gets £375m back for every £1bn invested and foreign companies get £250m back from £1bn invested. The additional cost probably wouldn't be very high and it would hugely benefit domestic companies and encourage smaller and medium sized foreign companies to redomicile in the UK.
  • rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, if it is true that the largest share of British immigration is coming from people on student visas, then that does suggest (given record numbers incoming) that there might a loophole or two there that is being exploited.

    (It also might mean that UK universities, who benefit from higher fees from foreign students, are prioritising revenues over educating the native population.)

    I think there's also a degree of COVID transient effects working through- fewer 2020/1 starters leaving, more 2022/3 starters joining.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Indeed, isn't that a large part of the resentment of the population in left behind areas?

    They go to the metropolis, or watch the TV and see upwardly mobile people of immigrant background, while their prospects stagnate or reverse.

    The problem with Meritocracy was clearly outlined in the book that invented the term. The world needs to look after the untalented as well as the talented. Everybody deserves a decent life.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited November 2023
    MaxPB said:

    Someone at work had a go at figuring out how long it will take for the full expensing policy to actually become a net gain for the government and he thinks it will require 11 more years but after that inflection it will be hugely positive and he lamented that such a policy wasn't put in place in 2010 when the current lot took power rather than lowering corporation tax to 19%.

    The rating on this policy was the best I've ever seen in terms of economic multipliers but it will require quite a long time to become effective as the additional investment cumulates over many years and returns from the investment also cumulates.

    One change he said he would make is to use the Brexit freedoms to give British companies an incremental leg up of a 150% rebate so a domestic company gets £375m back for every £1bn invested and foreign companies get £250m back from £1bn invested. The additional cost probably wouldn't be very high and it would hugely benefit domestic companies and encourage smaller and medium sized foreign companies to redomicile in the UK.

    How do you define a domestic company? Any entity claiming the 100% allowance will be a UK resident company or PE.

    You’d have to define this by ultimate ownership. Which would then nobble any hopes of increased investment by large UK subsidiaries of foreign owned groups. Which make up the majority of large capex spenders.

    And it would send a message to other potential sources of FDI to fuck off.

    A policy worthy of Venezuela, or Argentina.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    edited November 2023
    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.
  • Classic Thanksgiving movie "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" is on Film 4 at 9pm!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Looks pretty bad:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-67512628
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    I can't help but feel these investment allowances are going to be exploited. I presume capital expenses are fully deductible because they contribute to an increasing value of the business. Are we talking about companies being able to reduce their taxable profits or is the government effectively handing out grants to those that invest in capital?

    The latter starts to sound like corporate welfare.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    edited November 2023
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    I'm watching the colourised and edited Daleks on BBC2. I'm surprised by how well it holds up. The classic serials are far too long and slow for modern audiences, but upgrading them in this fashion works well.

    The special effects are risible, but it has worn well. Effects are no substitute for script and characterisation, and it has those.

    It's funny how the future looked from the Sixties.
    The editing has made the later part a bit frantic and hard to follow!

    Not sure modifying it for modern attention disordered audiences is progress.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    I can't help but feel these investment allowances are going to be exploited. I presume capital expenses are fully deductible because they contribute to an increasing value of the business. Are we talking about companies being able to reduce their taxable profits or is the government effectively handing out grants to those that invest in capital?

    The latter starts to sound like corporate welfare.

    Neither. It’s simply an acceleration of deductions they’d have got anyway. Sumtin-Nuttin.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Always satisfying to see someone pontificating about educational standards doing something as nonsensical as labelling a plot of "GDP per capita" in units of 1%.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,130
    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Singapore suggests the answer is low paid foreign workers from China, Indonesia, India, Malaysia, etc. "As of 2020, foreign workers make up some three quarters of the whole construction industry, half of manufacturing, and 30 per cent of services" so that's quite a lot of people.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Great new multi faith facility at Bristol airport

    https://x.com/BristolAirport/status/1727651705309876546?s=20
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    TimS said:

    I can't help but feel these investment allowances are going to be exploited. I presume capital expenses are fully deductible because they contribute to an increasing value of the business. Are we talking about companies being able to reduce their taxable profits or is the government effectively handing out grants to those that invest in capital?

    The latter starts to sound like corporate welfare.

    Neither. It’s simply an acceleration of deductions they’d have got anyway. Sumtin-Nuttin.
    A useful thread on this by some bloke:

    https://x.com/timsarson1/status/1727342711462908205?s=46
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    What is a "cashpoint" ????

    Sometimes it's better to adopt the American terms than invent neologisms for the sake of being different. There's nothing wrong with "cash machine", but ATM is better than "cashpoint".
    As they're largely made in Korea now, the U.S. usage is more appropriate.
  • TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
    Well, Chinese are 75% of the population (and have been for decades).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,820
    edited November 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    "Defence forces say suggestions of deployments are false

    "The Irish Defence Forces have clarified that certain images circulating online "are not from this evening but from a separate routine operation".

    "Images on social media showing army personnel carriers in Dublin had led to speculation soldiers have been deployed to tackle the disorder in the city. But the defence forces' post clarifies that these pictures "have no connection to this evening's events".

    "The post adds: "We ask everyone to be sensitive to the spreading disinformation, and to take care.""

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/status/1727791657309859960
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    "Defence forces say suggestions of deployments are false

    "The Irish Defence Forces have clarified that certain images circulating online "are not from this evening but from a separate routine operation".

    "Images on social media showing army personnel carriers in Dublin had led to speculation soldiers have been deployed to tackle the disorder in the city. But the defence forces' post clarifies that these pictures "have no connection to this evening's events".

    "The post adds: "We ask everyone to be sensitive to the spreading disinformation, and to take care.""

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/status/1727791657309859960
    They will be getting no tanks for their actions.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
    Well, Chinese are 75% of the population (and have been for decades).
    I should have added the nuance of Singapore born Chinese population vs recent Chinese migrants. Similar to Hong Kongers vs mainlanders.

    I am glad we don’t (yet) live in a country with a racially based caste system.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
    Well, Chinese are 75% of the population (and have been for decades).
    I should have added the nuance of Singapore born Chinese population vs recent Chinese migrants. Similar to Hong Kongers vs mainlanders.

    I am glad we don’t (yet) live in a country with a racially based caste system.
    Just wait for Nigel to get out of the jungle and he'll see what he can do for you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
    Well, Chinese are 75% of the population (and have been for decades).
    I should have added the nuance of Singapore born Chinese population vs recent Chinese migrants. Similar to Hong Kongers vs mainlanders.

    I am glad we don’t (yet) live in a country with a racially based caste system.
    Just wait for Nigel to get out of the jungle and he'll see what he can do for you.
    We're only making plans for Nigel. We only want what's best for him.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    This is from Conor McGregor, with 10 million followers on Twitter:

    https://x.com/thenotoriousmma/status/1727800056835621033

    Innocent children ruthlessly stabbed by a mentally deranged non-national in Dublin, Ireland today. Our chief of police had this to say on the riots in the aftermath. Drew, not good enough. There is grave danger among us in Ireland that should never be here in the first place, and there has been zero action done to support the public in any way, shape or form with this frightening fact. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Make change or make way. Ireland for the victory 🇮🇪 God bless those attacked today, we pray 🙏
  • HYUFD said:

    Great new multi faith facility at Bristol airport

    https://x.com/BristolAirport/status/1727651705309876546?s=20

    I struggle to see how it can be multifaith if there's only space for one person at a time. Unless, of course, it's specifically set aside for individuals who profess more than one faith simultaneously. We used to burn them at the stake so it's progress of a sort, I guess.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    "Defence forces say suggestions of deployments are false

    "The Irish Defence Forces have clarified that certain images circulating online "are not from this evening but from a separate routine operation".

    "Images on social media showing army personnel carriers in Dublin had led to speculation soldiers have been deployed to tackle the disorder in the city. But the defence forces' post clarifies that these pictures "have no connection to this evening's events".

    "The post adds: "We ask everyone to be sensitive to the spreading disinformation, and to take care.""

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/status/1727791657309859960
    Fake news spreading on Social Media?

    I am shocked to my core.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    "Defence forces say suggestions of deployments are false

    "The Irish Defence Forces have clarified that certain images circulating online "are not from this evening but from a separate routine operation".

    "Images on social media showing army personnel carriers in Dublin had led to speculation soldiers have been deployed to tackle the disorder in the city. But the defence forces' post clarifies that these pictures "have no connection to this evening's events".

    "The post adds: "We ask everyone to be sensitive to the spreading disinformation, and to take care.""

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/status/1727791657309859960
    They will be getting no tanks for their actions.
    You're very safe with that statement. The Óglaigh na hÉireann don't have any, since they got rid of old UK-supplied Comets in the 1970s (partly because someone didn't think to buy enough spares when the British stopped using them).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    Is the second part of this comment any more reliable than the first?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Looks pretty bad:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-67512628
    Looks like the army pictures are wrong.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    Is the second part of this comment any more reliable than the first?
    So it's been reported. But who knows. One attack does not normally result in riots so there must be more to this.
  • algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Great new multi faith facility at Bristol airport

    https://x.com/BristolAirport/status/1727651705309876546?s=20

    "Faintly reminiscent of the west front of Wells. A number of features borrowed from Walpole St Peter. Derivative, but on the whole a fine effort to create a space both awe inspiring and very clearly sacred. The borrowing of imagery from the legendary West Yorkshire bus stop style, especially those of the Gratton Porter Carstairs Partnership, alongside the curious Scunthorpe Pub Smoking Annexe design of Sasha Purlieu, with its translucent windows feature, renders this prizewinning design a specially worthy winner."
    Verily, a new Pevsner walks amongst us!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Army on the streets of Dublin tonight. Some serious anger out there.

    Edited: it's been confirmed that the attacker was an Algerian national. What his migration status was I don't know.

    Is the second part of this comment any more reliable than the first?
    So it's been reported. But who knows. One attack does not normally result in riots so there must be more to this.
    The far right have been making trouble for months over the number of refugees/asylum seekers arriving in Ireland. There was an attack on the tents of homeless asylum seekers. There are regularly demonstrations whenever the government finds some new accommodation to house arrivals in.

    Obviously the story has been put about that the perpetrator was from abroad, but it's irresponsible to repeat something like that which hasn't been confirmed.

    I'm surprised that you would do so.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    MaxPB said:

    Someone at work had a go at figuring out how long it will take for the full expensing policy to actually become a net gain for the government and he thinks it will require 11 more years but after that inflection it will be hugely positive and he lamented that such a policy wasn't put in place in 2010 when the current lot took power rather than lowering corporation tax to 19%.

    The rating on this policy was the best I've ever seen in terms of economic multipliers but it will require quite a long time to become effective as the additional investment cumulates over many years and returns from the investment also cumulates.

    One change he said he would make is to use the Brexit freedoms to give British companies an incremental leg up of a 150% rebate so a domestic company gets £375m back for every £1bn invested and foreign companies get £250m back from £1bn invested. The additional cost probably wouldn't be very high and it would hugely benefit domestic companies and encourage smaller and medium sized foreign companies to redomicile in the UK.

    That policy idea seems incredibly familiar. 🤣
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790

    Gone drinking in Chorlton.
    "Card only". Bloody hipsters.
    Still, I quite like the art on the wall:
  • Cookie said:


    Gone drinking in Chorlton.
    "Card only". Bloody hipsters.
    Still, I quite like the art on the wall:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo6C_CebBqc&t=6s
  • Cookie said:


    Gone drinking in Chorlton.
    "Card only". Bloody hipsters.
    Still, I quite like the art on the wall:

    Someone needs to get Forton's hexagonal restaurant tower back up and running. It symbolises the mood of national optimism last witnessed in the 1960s.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790

    This is from Conor McGregor, with 10 million followers on Twitter:

    https://x.com/thenotoriousmma/status/1727800056835621033

    Innocent children ruthlessly stabbed by a mentally deranged non-national in Dublin, Ireland today. Our chief of police had this to say on the riots in the aftermath. Drew, not good enough. There is grave danger among us in Ireland that should never be here in the first place, and there has been zero action done to support the public in any way, shape or form with this frightening fact. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Make change or make way. Ireland for the victory 🇮🇪 God bless those attacked today, we pray 🙏

    How does Conor McGregor - a commentator from a country with 5 million - gain 10 nillion followers? Apologies if I have grossly misunderstood.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    I see our header is back to the Brexit voters were thick as two planks ballix. Here's news, there is no sign of rejoining the EU, so tough shit.

    Regarding the incident in Dublin, as usual the street circulates information and fills the vacuum faster than the authorities.

    Authorities: The national origins of the offender was not mentioned, the initial claim was that it was not terror related

    The Street: Its this guy, he wasnt from here and hes stabbing kids

    The things that matter and the authorities do know 1. Is this guy known to the police 2.If so, what for, 3. Any medical ie possibly violent psychiatric history. They knew these things hours ago but as usual left the vacuum for the street to fill.









  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Cookie said:

    This is from Conor McGregor, with 10 million followers on Twitter:

    https://x.com/thenotoriousmma/status/1727800056835621033

    Innocent children ruthlessly stabbed by a mentally deranged non-national in Dublin, Ireland today. Our chief of police had this to say on the riots in the aftermath. Drew, not good enough. There is grave danger among us in Ireland that should never be here in the first place, and there has been zero action done to support the public in any way, shape or form with this frightening fact. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Make change or make way. Ireland for the victory 🇮🇪 God bless those attacked today, we pray 🙏

    How does Conor McGregor - a commentator from a country with 5 million - gain 10 nillion followers? Apologies if I have grossly misunderstood.
    He's an internationally famous sports person. He'll have lots of followers in the US and elsewhere.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    O/T

    Just back from Anatomy of a Fall. Anyone else seen it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,558
    Why is it always the poor trams that get it first?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019

    Why is it always the poor trams that get it first?
    All riots are secretly arranged by the tram manufacturers guild.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ugh, an actual Tory MP wrote this.

    On my new substack I write about the economics of migration.

    Britain should aim to be the "grammar school of the western world", with lower and more selective immigration.

    Recent high and unselective immigration has coincided with poor productivity growth in the UK (1/)


    https://twitter.com/NeilDotObrien/status/1727741350387310932

    Sounds perfectly sensible
    [Best Sgt WIlson voice]
    Are you fully sure you have checked that that's entirely wise, sir?

    Import immigrants to do the high pay, high prestige jobs, whilst ensuring that the lower paid, lower prestige jobs (which will inevitably still exist because they will still need doing) have to be done by native Britons?

    Isn't that almost the exact opposite of how other countries do it?
    Immigration is an incredibly hard thing to get right.

    If we did a really good job, like the Singaporeans, of getting everybody educated to a high level, then who would want to clean toilets or wipe bottoms?
    Who does it for the Singaporeans?
    If the rewards for doing that kind of work rise (relative to to the rewards to the highly educated), wouldn't there come a point where even the highly educated move into those jobs (assuming they are capable of doing them)?
    There are straws in the wind suggesting that is happening already. Graduates are, metaphorically, 10 a penny as a result of the "50% must have degrees" policy, and many of those unfortunates are finding jobs flipping burgers. While those who went through plumbing appenticeships and the like are coining it in.

    Singapore is essentially a London for SE Asia. A London with a somewhat stricter approach to chewing gum.

    London does this very well, but it’s not a solution that’s scaleable to a country like the UK. I’ve no doubt an independent London would do even better than Singapore.
    You've inverted the "London becoming Singapore-on-Thames" idea that esp German politicos feared would be the oucome of Brexit. But you haven't addressed my points.

    Who does it for Singaporeans? They have a UAE-style racial caste system. Basically.

    Chinese in the top jobs. European ex-pats in certain technical roles. South Asians doing lots of the support functions. Malays in public sector jobs. And everyone else doing the menial work.

    Not something I think we should be aiming to copy.
    Well, Chinese are 75% of the population (and have been for decades).
    I should have added the nuance of Singapore born Chinese population vs recent Chinese migrants. Similar to Hong Kongers vs mainlanders.

    I am glad we don’t (yet) live in a country with a racially based caste system.
    Singapore has a "single nationality" policy. Without it, it would be a colony of China.
  • Why is it always the poor trams that get it first?
    Because they don't believe in segregation... of rights of way.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790

    Cookie said:


    Gone drinking in Chorlton.
    "Card only". Bloody hipsters.
    Still, I quite like the art on the wall:

    Someone needs to get Forton's hexagonal restaurant tower back up and running. It symbolises the mood of national optimism last witnessed in the 1960s.
    I also quite liked the convention of naming service stations after the nearest tiny hamlet. None of this Lancaster or Birmingham North or Bolton West bollocks - which I'm happy to see was a fad which has been thought better of.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,071

    HYUFD said:

    Great new multi faith facility at Bristol airport

    https://x.com/BristolAirport/status/1727651705309876546?s=20

    I struggle to see how it can be multifaith if there's only space for one person at a time. Unless, of course, it's specifically set aside for individuals who profess more than one faith simultaneously. We used to burn them at the stake so it's progress of a sort, I guess.
    Indeed. Now they are just forced to be damp in a small steel shed that stinks of smoke and piss. Truly we are enlightened.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Why is it always the poor trams that get it first?
    I think they are missing a trick there, a burning bus has a more potent affect on the senses. The whiff of the tyre smoke from burning buses is a smell that I'll carry to the grave.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    RTE saying they've been told that the suspect in the case is an Irish citizen who came to Ireland 20 years ago.

    The racists who have creating so much trouble over asylum seeker arrivals say that this is because these arrivals are not "vetted", so it's not that they're against all foreigners, but anyone applying for citizenship would have to prove they were of good character.

    But I don't suppose we're likely to see any logical consistency from them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Cookie said:

    This is from Conor McGregor, with 10 million followers on Twitter:

    https://x.com/thenotoriousmma/status/1727800056835621033

    Innocent children ruthlessly stabbed by a mentally deranged non-national in Dublin, Ireland today. Our chief of police had this to say on the riots in the aftermath. Drew, not good enough. There is grave danger among us in Ireland that should never be here in the first place, and there has been zero action done to support the public in any way, shape or form with this frightening fact. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Make change or make way. Ireland for the victory 🇮🇪 God bless those attacked today, we pray 🙏

    How does Conor McGregor - a commentator from a country with 5 million - gain 10 nillion followers? Apologies if I have grossly misunderstood.
    He's an internationally famous sports person. He'll have lots of followers in the US and elsewhere.
    Dublin has no shortage of violent thugs. Around the nether regions of the boxing and MMA world, especially.

    Is this some kind of nativist SaveTheOrishHodlumsJobs thing?
This discussion has been closed.