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Just imagine if Boris Johnson was still PM – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited November 2023 in General
Just imagine if Boris Johnson was still PM – politicalbetting.com

I am a gobby bastard but even I am lost for words.Boris Johnson "wanted to be injected with Covid-19 on television" to calm public fears, an ex-aide has said.The claim – by Lord Lister – came in a witness statement to the Covid inquiry.https://t.co/pdlwdANoB9

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    First, like India in the cricket
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    This 'Britain's Trump' stuff does worry me, given that Trump is currently favourite to be the next leader of his country :open_mouth:
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.
  • BoJo = Trump Light
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    FPT

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m bored of Israel/Gaza now

    Have you heard of Brexit ?
    What takes this off the front page in the near future? What potential news event? Short of a real black swan I think there are a few options to mull over:

    - A financial crisis (US bonds have been very volatile, maybe a sudden stockmarket rout)
    - A huge natural disaster - but it would have to be truly huge, and probably close to home. Floods in Somerset or a bad earthquake in Mexico wouldn't be enough. Campi Phlaegri erupting perhaps
    - A Tory leadership bid with letters going into the 1922.
    - A snap general election
    - Trump going to jail
    - A surprise death: Trump (again), Biden, Putin, Zelenskyy
    - A horrific UK crime e.g. child abduction or mass shooting
    - Major breakthrough for either side in the Ukraine war

    Otherwise I think we're stuck with Israel-Hamas and its allied topics (pro-Palestine protests, Labour resignations, antisemitism) for a couple of weeks at least.
    Heavy Ukraine weaponry is moving over to the left bank of the Dnipro. If you want a "surprise" scenerio, then all parties having worked together to secretly deliver F-16s to Ukraine to support a winter offensive towards Crimea would be a good one.
    I don't quite get what Russia is up to in allowing this, unless it's all a bit Admiral Akbar (though of course it should be noted that yes, it was a trap but the trap failed to close around its target).

    Russian civil unrest leading to revolution is not out of the question though. It seems more likely to me that if there is a definitive outcome to the Ukraine War, it will be decided on the home front rather than the battlefield.
    IMV Russia want another win to sell to the population. They got Bakhmut, but that was not a big win, and it was massively costly. Adviika would give them another win, which they can hope they sell as less bloody. That salient has also been an annoyance to the Russians for years, as it allows artillery to attack Donetsk city and Makiivka.

    Therefore Russia concentrate on 'winning' Adviika, and they're too stretched atm to defend strongly everywhere.
    My question is whether they're stretched because they're short of material, or because they're preparing a bigger offensive.
    There are some rumours coming through that Ukraine is about to start a major offensive over the Dnipro into the Kherson area. Ukraine has been making a bridgehead for some time and had been building up mechanised troops behind. Now they are closing down the airspace with complete aerial superiority. This is what you would do right before an attack. Apparently the Russians have almost no mechanisation in this direction because of the domination of Ukrainian FPV drones and the Russian focus on Andriivka. Worth keeping an eye on over the next couple of weeks!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Sandpit said:

    Sad that such an important inquiry is being totally consumed by the who-said-what-when, rather than trying to actually understand what happened, and to genuinely learn lessons useful for the next emergency.

    Moreover, the focus is on the process by which the decisions are arrived at, not the wisdom or otherwise of those decisions.

    When will Professor Sir Chris Whitty be called to the dock to explain why he ignored the entire South African medical profession and deliberately brought hospitality to its knees with his comments in Christmas 2021?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sad that such an important inquiry is being totally consumed by the who-said-what-when, rather than trying to actually understand what happened, and to genuinely learn lessons useful for the next emergency.

    That’s part of the next modules.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    *looks nervously behind him and then rereads*

    Oh, spouse initiated clearouts. Whew.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    Doing that as well. Old Beano annuals not as valuable as I had hoped.

    And - my god - who'd a thought you could accumulate so many chargers and leads without having a scooby for which appliance they are intended for.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?
  • Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    The chance of seeing records broken two nights in a row, is now diminishing rapidly.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    AlistairM said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m bored of Israel/Gaza now

    Have you heard of Brexit ?
    What takes this off the front page in the near future? What potential news event? Short of a real black swan I think there are a few options to mull over:

    - A financial crisis (US bonds have been very volatile, maybe a sudden stockmarket rout)
    - A huge natural disaster - but it would have to be truly huge, and probably close to home. Floods in Somerset or a bad earthquake in Mexico wouldn't be enough. Campi Phlaegri erupting perhaps
    - A Tory leadership bid with letters going into the 1922.
    - A snap general election
    - Trump going to jail
    - A surprise death: Trump (again), Biden, Putin, Zelenskyy
    - A horrific UK crime e.g. child abduction or mass shooting
    - Major breakthrough for either side in the Ukraine war

    Otherwise I think we're stuck with Israel-Hamas and its allied topics (pro-Palestine protests, Labour resignations, antisemitism) for a couple of weeks at least.
    Heavy Ukraine weaponry is moving over to the left bank of the Dnipro. If you want a "surprise" scenerio, then all parties having worked together to secretly deliver F-16s to Ukraine to support a winter offensive towards Crimea would be a good one.
    I don't quite get what Russia is up to in allowing this, unless it's all a bit Admiral Akbar (though of course it should be noted that yes, it was a trap but the trap failed to close around its target).

    Russian civil unrest leading to revolution is not out of the question though. It seems more likely to me that if there is a definitive outcome to the Ukraine War, it will be decided on the home front rather than the battlefield.
    IMV Russia want another win to sell to the population. They got Bakhmut, but that was not a big win, and it was massively costly. Adviika would give them another win, which they can hope they sell as less bloody. That salient has also been an annoyance to the Russians for years, as it allows artillery to attack Donetsk city and Makiivka.

    Therefore Russia concentrate on 'winning' Adviika, and they're too stretched atm to defend strongly everywhere.
    My question is whether they're stretched because they're short of material, or because they're preparing a bigger offensive.
    There are some rumours coming through that Ukraine is about to start a major offensive over the Dnipro into the Kherson area. Ukraine has been making a bridgehead for some time and had been building up mechanised troops behind. Now they are closing down the airspace with complete aerial superiority. This is what you would do right before an attack. Apparently the Russians have almost no mechanisation in this direction because of the domination of Ukrainian FPV drones and the Russian focus on Andriivka. Worth keeping an eye on over the next couple of weeks!
    If that's the plan then they need to get on with it, otherwise it ceases to be a surprise. I'd have thought it's very risky to attack from that direction with the river behind you and crossings within artillery range. And it's a long way from Kherson to anywhere.

    Ukraine certainly needs to bring back the element of surprise because the last few months have been a bit predictable (sure, Russia is predictable too but with a brute style that can still be effective in an ugly way, a bit like England's Rugby team).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I understand that the key score is 271. If England restrict the Netherlands to that they not only bounce off the bottom of the table, they will leap over the mighty Bangladesh. Glory days indeed.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    Netherlands still might get more than 271 though. That's the magic number that England need to restrict Netherlands to so that their NRR goes above Bangladesh.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    Netherlands still might get more than 271 though. That's the magic number that England need to restrict Netherlands to so that their NRR goes above Bangladesh.
    Have to say that this is looking somewhat less likely than it did 20 minutes ago. England need wickets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I understand that the key score is 271. If England restrict the Netherlands to that they not only bounce off the bottom of the table, they will leap over the mighty Bangladesh. Glory days indeed.
    The peak of English cricket, chasing the Netherlands and Bangladesh for the wooden spoon in a 10-team competition.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    AlistairM said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m bored of Israel/Gaza now

    Have you heard of Brexit ?
    What takes this off the front page in the near future? What potential news event? Short of a real black swan I think there are a few options to mull over:

    - A financial crisis (US bonds have been very volatile, maybe a sudden stockmarket rout)
    - A huge natural disaster - but it would have to be truly huge, and probably close to home. Floods in Somerset or a bad earthquake in Mexico wouldn't be enough. Campi Phlaegri erupting perhaps
    - A Tory leadership bid with letters going into the 1922.
    - A snap general election
    - Trump going to jail
    - A surprise death: Trump (again), Biden, Putin, Zelenskyy
    - A horrific UK crime e.g. child abduction or mass shooting
    - Major breakthrough for either side in the Ukraine war

    Otherwise I think we're stuck with Israel-Hamas and its allied topics (pro-Palestine protests, Labour resignations, antisemitism) for a couple of weeks at least.
    Heavy Ukraine weaponry is moving over to the left bank of the Dnipro. If you want a "surprise" scenerio, then all parties having worked together to secretly deliver F-16s to Ukraine to support a winter offensive towards Crimea would be a good one.
    I don't quite get what Russia is up to in allowing this, unless it's all a bit Admiral Akbar (though of course it should be noted that yes, it was a trap but the trap failed to close around its target).

    Russian civil unrest leading to revolution is not out of the question though. It seems more likely to me that if there is a definitive outcome to the Ukraine War, it will be decided on the home front rather than the battlefield.
    IMV Russia want another win to sell to the population. They got Bakhmut, but that was not a big win, and it was massively costly. Adviika would give them another win, which they can hope they sell as less bloody. That salient has also been an annoyance to the Russians for years, as it allows artillery to attack Donetsk city and Makiivka.

    Therefore Russia concentrate on 'winning' Adviika, and they're too stretched atm to defend strongly everywhere.
    My question is whether they're stretched because they're short of material, or because they're preparing a bigger offensive.
    There are some rumours coming through that Ukraine is about to start a major offensive over the Dnipro into the Kherson area. Ukraine has been making a bridgehead for some time and had been building up mechanised troops behind. Now they are closing down the airspace with complete aerial superiority. This is what you would do right before an attack. Apparently the Russians have almost no mechanisation in this direction because of the domination of Ukrainian FPV drones and the Russian focus on Andriivka. Worth keeping an eye on over the next couple of weeks!
    I haven't seen a convincing antidote to the Russian glide bombs yet, unless they bring something in with a 40-50 mile range.

    Is there one that is affordable and effective?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I understand that the key score is 271. If England restrict the Netherlands to that they not only bounce off the bottom of the table, they will leap over the mighty Bangladesh. Glory days indeed.
    The peak of English cricket, chasing the Netherlands and Bangladesh for the wooden spoon in a 10-team competition.
    It's been a shocking WC right enough.
  • Wa-hey! Cum-shitshow! That sounds INCREDIBLY rude!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908

    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    Doing that as well. Old Beano annuals not as valuable as I had hoped.

    And - my god - who'd a thought you could accumulate so many chargers and leads without having a scooby for which appliance they are intended for.
    I have a boxed Hornby train set somewhere.

    And some Biggles first editions, which were a surprise to find.

    And a mint Mamod Steam Engine, which I am keeping.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    TimS said:

    AlistairM said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ok I’m bored of Israel/Gaza now

    Have you heard of Brexit ?
    What takes this off the front page in the near future? What potential news event? Short of a real black swan I think there are a few options to mull over:

    - A financial crisis (US bonds have been very volatile, maybe a sudden stockmarket rout)
    - A huge natural disaster - but it would have to be truly huge, and probably close to home. Floods in Somerset or a bad earthquake in Mexico wouldn't be enough. Campi Phlaegri erupting perhaps
    - A Tory leadership bid with letters going into the 1922.
    - A snap general election
    - Trump going to jail
    - A surprise death: Trump (again), Biden, Putin, Zelenskyy
    - A horrific UK crime e.g. child abduction or mass shooting
    - Major breakthrough for either side in the Ukraine war

    Otherwise I think we're stuck with Israel-Hamas and its allied topics (pro-Palestine protests, Labour resignations, antisemitism) for a couple of weeks at least.
    Heavy Ukraine weaponry is moving over to the left bank of the Dnipro. If you want a "surprise" scenerio, then all parties having worked together to secretly deliver F-16s to Ukraine to support a winter offensive towards Crimea would be a good one.
    I don't quite get what Russia is up to in allowing this, unless it's all a bit Admiral Akbar (though of course it should be noted that yes, it was a trap but the trap failed to close around its target).

    Russian civil unrest leading to revolution is not out of the question though. It seems more likely to me that if there is a definitive outcome to the Ukraine War, it will be decided on the home front rather than the battlefield.
    IMV Russia want another win to sell to the population. They got Bakhmut, but that was not a big win, and it was massively costly. Adviika would give them another win, which they can hope they sell as less bloody. That salient has also been an annoyance to the Russians for years, as it allows artillery to attack Donetsk city and Makiivka.

    Therefore Russia concentrate on 'winning' Adviika, and they're too stretched atm to defend strongly everywhere.
    My question is whether they're stretched because they're short of material, or because they're preparing a bigger offensive.
    There are some rumours coming through that Ukraine is about to start a major offensive over the Dnipro into the Kherson area. Ukraine has been making a bridgehead for some time and had been building up mechanised troops behind. Now they are closing down the airspace with complete aerial superiority. This is what you would do right before an attack. Apparently the Russians have almost no mechanisation in this direction because of the domination of Ukrainian FPV drones and the Russian focus on Andriivka. Worth keeping an eye on over the next couple of weeks!
    If that's the plan then they need to get on with it, otherwise it ceases to be a surprise. I'd have thought it's very risky to attack from that direction with the river behind you and crossings within artillery range. And it's a long way from Kherson to anywhere.

    Ukraine certainly needs to bring back the element of surprise because the last few months have been a bit predictable (sure, Russia is predictable too but with a brute style that can still be effective in an ugly way, a bit like England's Rugby team).
    I've been wondering about underwater bridges, a la Zhukov.

    But not on the Dnieper - it's huge, and fast where slightly less huge.

    Somebody must have pontoon bridges that can be sunk slightly during the day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,475

    Wa-hey! Cum-shitshow! That sounds INCREDIBLY rude!

    That's how we like to be screwed by the Tory Party.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,474
    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Much more likely, I agree. Boris must be kicking himself for bringing about his own downfall.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Moeen Ali finally gets a wicket in this competition!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    Doing that as well. Old Beano annuals not as valuable as I had hoped.

    And - my god - who'd a thought you could accumulate so many chargers and leads without having a scooby for which appliance they are intended for.
    I have a boxed Hornby train set somewhere.

    And some Biggles first editions, which were a surprise to find.

    And a mint Mamod Steam Engine, which I am keeping.
    Saw a working Commodore 64 on sale for £80 at a charity shop the other day. Was very tempted...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,474
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I understand that the key score is 271. If England restrict the Netherlands to that they not only bounce off the bottom of the table, they will leap over the mighty Bangladesh. Glory days indeed.
    The peak of English cricket, chasing the Netherlands and Bangladesh for the wooden spoon in a 10-team competition.
    Just be relieved it wasn't a 12-team competition. Then we could have been below West Indies and Ireland as well.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069

    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Much more likely, I agree. Boris must be kicking himself for bringing about his own downfall.
    He can't change who he is though. Acting the way he does is in his nature. God knows what he would have done had he remained PM.
  • As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    edited November 2023
    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    edited November 2023
    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    Netherlands still might get more than 271 though. That's the magic number that England need to restrict Netherlands to so that their NRR goes above Bangladesh.
    Have to say that this is looking somewhat less likely than it did 20 minutes ago. England need wickets.
    Well there’s two of them in as many overs.

    Edit: did I say two when I meant to say three?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    CatMan said:

    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Much more likely, I agree. Boris must be kicking himself for bringing about his own downfall.
    He can't change who he is though. Acting the way he does is in his nature. God knows what he would have done had he remained PM.
    Back when he was MoL, I said that he was unfit to be in a position of power because of the Garden Bridge debacle. The same poor behaviour and bad decisions that led to the Garden Bridge debacle were the root of his downfall as PM. He simply did not learn.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    In our house, I'm the spouse who (tries to) initiate the clearouts.

    Not going well so far. I think our upstairs ceilings might collapse due to stuff in the loft. On the plus side, we've now effectively got a uniform 6-foot thick layer of insulation up there.
  • isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Much more likely, I agree. Boris must be kicking himself for bringing about his own downfall.
    Hell no. BoJo, like his evil twin Trump, has NEVER blamed himself for ANYTHING.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    Doing that as well. Old Beano annuals not as valuable as I had hoped.

    And - my god - who'd a thought you could accumulate so many chargers and leads without having a scooby for which appliance they are intended for.
    I have a boxed Hornby train set somewhere.

    And some Biggles first editions, which were a surprise to find.

    And a mint Mamod Steam Engine, which I am keeping.
    Very cool.

    My parents are going to be downsizing next year, and I am going to have to decide what to do with a whole load of stuff. I basically emigrated with a couple of suitcases, a decade and a half ago, and emptied my own house into parents’ loft so I could rent it out!
  • And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....
  • CatMan said:

    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Much more likely, I agree. Boris must be kicking himself for bringing about his own downfall.
    He can't change who he is though. Acting the way he does is in his nature. God knows what he would have done had he remained PM.
    Back when he was MoL, I said that he was unfit to be in a position of power because of the Garden Bridge debacle. The same poor behaviour and bad decisions that led to the Garden Bridge debacle were the root of his downfall as PM. He simply did not learn.
    Worse, he cancelled the East London River Crossing between Beckton and Thamesmead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    Netherlands still might get more than 271 though. That's the magic number that England need to restrict Netherlands to so that their NRR goes above Bangladesh.
    Have to say that this is looking somewhat less likely than it did 20 minutes ago. England need wickets.
    Well there’s two of them in as many overs.

    Edit: did I say two when I meant to say three?
    Did I say three when I meant to say four?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,629
    So proud of England: they're on the cusp on not being last in the Cricket World Cup.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
  • I think we’ll call that a value bet, ahem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....

    And, as GWB pointed out, those are the ones you want.
  • Its just another Boris lie. An egregious, outrageous, wholly unfit for that office lie. And up pop all the Tory ministers to not just repeat the lie, but pretend to be outraged that anyone would suggest such a thing.

    Unfortunately, the public grew bored of the lies and grifting. It has been suggested above that if he were still PM he would lead the Tories to a better result. Really? This enquiry would be wall to wall, with continued denials and that is out of context and actually the villain is Starmer actually.

    Why is this part of the enquiry focused on "who-said-what-when" - because its critically important for our politics. The remaining handful of PB Tories may not care, but voters do. I did say at the time that "kill your granny for Christmas" wouldn't be popular. It wasn't then, its hugely damaging now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    200 runs, 20 overs, 5 wickets. Feeling lucky, Mr Eagles?

    I am always confident.

    I am confident I am losing this bet.
    Netherlands still might get more than 271 though. That's the magic number that England need to restrict Netherlands to so that their NRR goes above Bangladesh.
    Have to say that this is looking somewhat less likely than it did 20 minutes ago. England need wickets.
    Well there’s two of them in as many overs.

    Edit: did I say two when I meant to say three?
    Did I say three when I meant to say four?
    …or four when I meant to say five?!?

    Well done with the ball at the end, at least we’re now unlikely to be last in the tournament!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I’ve just given my wife the Christmas wish list…
    The greatest aircraft of all time.
    https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/concorde-10318
  • And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....

    They're not fooling them. Current Tory support is a coalition of:

    - the "always voted Tory and don't care what they're doing";
    - pensioners and home-owners with small or no mortgages doing quite nicely, thank-you;
    - Brexit / anti-woke 'values' voters not willing to move to Reform, on tactical or other grounds;
    - right-of-centre voters with an instinctive or residual distrust of Labour;
    - disillusioned Conservatives who, despite the Tories' behaviour and lack of delivery, don't want Labour to have too large a majority / want the party to have a future base to build from;
  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    edited November 2023
    Sandpit said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I’ve just given my wife the Christmas wish list…
    The greatest aircraft of all time.
    https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/concorde-10318
    Supposedly it's a boring kit to make...

    Between the family we are getting

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/hokusai-the-great-wave-31208

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/vincent-van-gogh-the-starry-night-21333

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/motorised-lighthouse-21335

    and https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/land-rover-classic-defender-90-10317

    for Christmas.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    Sandpit said:

    Sad that such an important inquiry is being totally consumed by the who-said-what-when, rather than trying to actually understand what happened, and to genuinely learn lessons useful for the next emergency.

    Yes. Although one of the very biggest lessons about handling a public health crisis is hopefully being learnt - not to have a PM like Boris Johnson when it happens.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    It must be the time of year for spouse-initiated clearouts. Similar happening here, but with children's clothes and toys.
    Doing that as well. Old Beano annuals not as valuable as I had hoped.

    And - my god - who'd a thought you could accumulate so many chargers and leads without having a scooby for which appliance they are intended for.
    I have a boxed Hornby train set somewhere.

    And some Biggles first editions, which were a surprise to find.

    And a mint Mamod Steam Engine, which I am keeping.
    You are really exploding the myth of the typical PBer there Matt
  • On topic, I'm not sure I buy the premise. If Johnson had survived Paterson, Pincher and Partygate, it would have meant that Tory MPs had shown remarkable loyalty to him for no obvious reason given the polling and his behaviour. The mass resignations simply could not have happened because they alone placed Johnson in an untenable position - and by not acting, the Party and its MPs would have been irretrievably tied to Johnson's behaviour (and, by extension, Pincher's and anyone else Johnson attempted to protect).

    The polling consequence of all that would indeed be that the Tories would be miles behind - but that being the case, why wouldn't MPs act? Why would they show such loyalty when maybe half of them could be looking at redundancy? I can't really answer that.

    Put simply, had he not been brought down when he was, he'd have been brought down later.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661
    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Probably right on the 2nd point, although it'd still be unlikely. Right on the 1st point too, but "let the bodies pile high" is spectacularly crass.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sad that such an important inquiry is being totally consumed by the who-said-what-when, rather than trying to actually understand what happened, and to genuinely learn lessons useful for the next emergency.

    It also seems entirely focussed on the health aspects of government decision-making, to the exclusion of other legitimate considerations. (So far, but I'm not hopeful of a more rounded approach later).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Chris said:

    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
    For someone who was once famous for using her brain, she’s gone a very long way down the social media clickbait rabbithole in the past few years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,661

    And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....

    They're not fooling them. Current Tory support is a coalition of:

    - the "always voted Tory and don't care what they're doing";
    - pensioners and home-owners with small or no mortgages doing quite nicely, thank-you;
    - Brexit / anti-woke 'values' voters not willing to move to Reform, on tactical or other grounds;
    - right-of-centre voters with an instinctive or residual distrust of Labour;
    - disillusioned Conservatives who, despite the Tories' behaviour and lack of delivery, don't want Labour to have too large a majority / want the party to have a future base to build from;
    Good split that. With overlap between some of the categories obviously.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,622
    edited November 2023
    Good afternoon

    I have just returned from a visit to my medical centre re my recent dvt and have a series of further investigations as the medics work to resolve my issues, and I have absolute confidence in them. The good news is my wife is improving from her dreadful covid infection

    I have to say the combination of the witness statements about Johnson at the covid enquiry timed with the idiotic release of the Johnson sycophant Dorries's book makes one despair at the way these two and others have trashed the conservative brand and should hang their heads in shame

    I have lost my appetite for the to and fro in politics and despair at the wars in Ukraine and Israel/Gaza

    If I could influence anything I would want a peace settlement in both conflicts and an early general election but my efforts are entirely directed at my family and recovery
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Probably right on the 2nd point, although it'd still be unlikely. Right on the 1st point too, but "let the bodies pile high" is spectacularly crass.
    "Spectacularly Crass" sounds like an amazingly apt title for biography of Boris Johnson.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I've got that book, and it is excwllent.

    I have to disagree on the Victor though: it's fugly. The frontal view is awful IMV, with those windows between the massive intakes. The Valiant looked better, albeit a less adventurous and successful design. And of course, the Vulcan beats them all.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Were any people infected by Boris Johnson, after he got COVID? Directly, or one or two removed?

    (I've been wondering about the Loser's record on spreading COVID, and thinking the total must be at least in the double digits, but haven't seen any counts.)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
    For someone who was once famous for using her brain, she’s gone a very long way down the social media clickbait rabbithole in the past few years.
    Not having followed her on social media (or anywhere else), I can only bow to your superior knowledge.

    But evidently the scales have fallen from her eyes as far as the Tories are concerned.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,973
    Don't know if it affects anyone but the French Senate have backed automatic visas for second home owners. So the roll back of Brexit has started. Hopefully it passes and is just the beginning of a dismantling which will be speeded up when we get a Labour government
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    And, of course, there was Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, who, thinking he might have COVID, went to the Senate gym to exercise, without telling anyone there, or wearing a mask.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited November 2023
    Roger said:

    Don't know if it affects anyone but the French Senate have backed automatic visas for second home owners. So the roll back of Brexit has started. Hopefully it passes and is just the beginning of a dismantling which will be speeded up when we get a Labour government

    Interesting. Presumably still ones you have to apply and pay for?

    EDIT: looked it up and does indeed look good news https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/French-senate-backs-automatic-visa-right-for-UK-second-home-owners#

    Ideally that could help me avoid the increasingly frequent holdups at immigration (in other countries, the French never bother) while passport people count up my stamps.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    edited November 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
    For someone who was once famous for using her brain, she’s gone a very long way down the social media clickbait rabbithole in the past few years.
    Is it known what triggered Vorders' change of mind about the Tories? I note her Twix bio mentions free school meals.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,839
    TimS said:

    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.

    I assume the cat allergy check is optional.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,629
    Totally separately, it was a surprisingly good night for the Democrats last night.

    They held the Kentucky Governorship by a decent margin in the end (albeit they missed in Mississippi by an identical one).

    They held onto the Virginia Senate, while taking the House of Delegates from the Republicans.

    In the House Special elections, the Dems increased their vote share slightly in Rhode Island.

    Plus, after the Ohio legislature enacted a six week abortion ban, the voters amended the State constitution to guarantee access. I really do think that the Republican focus on abortion is a major vote loser. You can, I think, restrict access to 15 weeks without much electoral consequence, but when you go beyond there, voters tend to shout "No", even in Red States.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    For fans of the Post Office Inquiry shitshow - this summary of Elaine Cottam's evidence yesterday by the wonderful Nick Wallis is a must read. The last paragraph pretty much sums it up - https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/what-was-she-drinking-the-elaine-cottam-experience/.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,474

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    I’m sure there’s always been things said behind closed doors by Prime Ministers that would sound awful if they were disclosed to the public.

    The Tories would still be more likely be in govt after the next GE if Boris was PM than they are now

    Probably right on the 2nd point, although it'd still be unlikely. Right on the 1st point too, but "let the bodies pile high" is spectacularly crass.
    "Spectacularly Crass" sounds like an amazingly apt title for biography of Boris Johnson.
    You could save a few letters and settle for "Spectacular Ass".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,399

    TimS said:

    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.

    I assume the cat allergy check is optional.
    I read it as cooking for the cat. "And my darling Kitty, tonight's main course is lamb broth. Wait. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T HOLD A SPOON? I worked HOURS on this!!!" before collapsing into the corner sobbing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....

    They're not fooling them. Current Tory support is a coalition of:

    - the "always voted Tory and don't care what they're doing";
    - pensioners and home-owners with small or no mortgages doing quite nicely, thank-you;
    - Brexit / anti-woke 'values' voters not willing to move to Reform, on tactical or other grounds;
    - right-of-centre voters with an instinctive or residual distrust of Labour;
    - disillusioned Conservatives who, despite the Tories' behaviour and lack of delivery, don't want Labour to have too large a majority / want the party to have a future base to build from;
    Just the same in reverse, as the 30% who voted Labour in 2010.

    I've always voted Labour
    Pensioners and home-owners with small or no mortgages, who'd done very well from the rise in house prices from 1997-2007.
    Left wing "values" voters
    Left of centre voters with a residual distrust of the Tories
    Disillusioned Labour voters who nevertheless, didn't want the Tories coming in with a big majority.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,973
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Don't know if it affects anyone but the French Senate have backed automatic visas for second home owners. So the roll back of Brexit has started. Hopefully it passes and is just the beginning of a dismantling which will be speeded up when we get a Labour government

    Interesting. Presumably still ones you have to apply and pay for?

    EDIT: looked it up and does indeed look good news https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/French-senate-backs-automatic-visa-right-for-UK-second-home-owners#

    Ideally that could help me avoid the increasingly frequent holdups at immigration (in other countries, the French never bother) while passport people count up my stamps.
    It should do that and improve the saleability of French properties. Many people I know who like to base themselves there will be delighted.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
    For someone who was once famous for using her brain, she’s gone a very long way down the social media clickbait rabbithole in the past few years.
    Is it known what triggered Vorders' change of mind about the Tories? I note her Twix bio mentions free school meals.
    It's discussed in this hatchet job published in the Telegraph in July:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/28/carol-vorderman-conservative-row-david-cameron/
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    And yet, TSE, 25% of voters are still supporting his Party....

    It seems you can fool a quarter of the people all of the time.....

    They're not fooling them. Current Tory support is a coalition of:

    - the "always voted Tory and don't care what they're doing";
    - pensioners and home-owners with small or no mortgages doing quite nicely, thank-you;
    - Brexit / anti-woke 'values' voters not willing to move to Reform, on tactical or other grounds;
    - right-of-centre voters with an instinctive or residual distrust of Labour;
    - disillusioned Conservatives who, despite the Tories' behaviour and lack of delivery, don't want Labour to have too large a majority / want the party to have a future base to build from;
    You can add, north of the border, unionists who appreciate the unyielding Tory stance which has actually proven pretty effective.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,399

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    MattW said:

    Most important news of the afternoon.

    Carol Vorderman has lost her BBC Radio Show, as she lives in contravention of their social media policies.

    You can't have both Radio Carol and Twitter Carol, anymore. 2 into1 will not go.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67357877

    Worth bearing in mind that she had previously been well enough disposed to the Tories to head a task force on maths teaching, before Cameron became prime minister.
    For someone who was once famous for using her brain, she’s gone a very long way down the social media clickbait rabbithole in the past few years.
    Is it known what triggered Vorders' change of mind about the Tories? I note her Twix bio mentions free school meals.
    Cameron's Conservatives ("Vote Blue. Go Green") is not the same as Sunak.xls's ("Vote Blue. Fuck The Environment"). Does that explain it?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023

    Its just another Boris lie. An egregious, outrageous, wholly unfit for that office lie. And up pop all the Tory ministers to not just repeat the lie, but pretend to be outraged that anyone would suggest such a thing.

    Unfortunately, the public grew bored of the lies and grifting. It has been suggested above that if he were still PM he would lead the Tories to a better result. Really? This enquiry would be wall to wall, with continued denials and that is out of context and actually the villain is Starmer actually.

    Why is this part of the enquiry focused on "who-said-what-when" - because its critically important for our politics. The remaining handful of PB Tories may not care, but voters do. I did say at the time that "kill your granny for Christmas" wouldn't be popular. It wasn't then, its hugely damaging now.

    By “the public” do you mean opinion poll respondents, civil servants, or MPs?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004
    Roger said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Don't know if it affects anyone but the French Senate have backed automatic visas for second home owners. So the roll back of Brexit has started. Hopefully it passes and is just the beginning of a dismantling which will be speeded up when we get a Labour government

    Interesting. Presumably still ones you have to apply and pay for?

    EDIT: looked it up and does indeed look good news https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/French-senate-backs-automatic-visa-right-for-UK-second-home-owners#

    Ideally that could help me avoid the increasingly frequent holdups at immigration (in other countries, the French never bother) while passport people count up my stamps.
    It should do that and improve the saleability of French properties. Many people I know who like to base themselves there will be delighted.
    The French authorities finally realising that border pedantry only harms their own economy, and that the British are are great source of money no longer worth pissing off just for the hell of it?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited November 2023
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.

    I assume the cat allergy check is optional.
    I read it as cooking for the cat. "And my darling Kitty, tonight's main course is lamb broth. Wait. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T HOLD A SPOON? I worked HOURS on this!!!" before collapsing into the corner sobbing.
    My cats are in the doghouse so to speak, so nothing nice like lamb broth for them. Since it got cold and wet Florence has been shitting and pissing on various beds around the house and refusing to go outside. So we’ve now been forced to get the litter tray back out of storage. Gross.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,347
    edited November 2023
    TimS said:

    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.

    Mm, nice. Personally I'd gently cook the potato and onion with a little gravy and dripping in a covered pan to make stovies = pommes de terre etouffees = labskaus, and serve with the cold meat and pickled beetroot. But very much a matter of taste.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,894
    If Boris was still PM the Conservatives would at least be polling over 30% and Reform would not be polling the 5-10% they are on (if anything RefUK voters think Boris was too strict on lockdowns so would welcome the fact it seems he was more reticent on that after all).

    Labour would also not be polling as high as it is now in the redwall, albeit the LDs might be doing a bit better again in the bluewall
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,894
    edited November 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Totally separately, it was a surprisingly good night for the Democrats last night.

    They held the Kentucky Governorship by a decent margin in the end (albeit they missed in Mississippi by an identical one).

    They held onto the Virginia Senate, while taking the House of Delegates from the Republicans.

    In the House Special elections, the Dems increased their vote share slightly in Rhode Island.

    Plus, after the Ohio legislature enacted a six week abortion ban, the voters amended the State constitution to guarantee access. I really do think that the Republican focus on abortion is a major vote loser. You can, I think, restrict access to 15 weeks without much electoral consequence, but when you go beyond there, voters tend to shout "No", even in Red States.

    And Trump was not on the ballot and he did not endorse the GOP candidate in Kentucky but only in Mississippi, so a reasonable night for him too, he can say his voters only came out where he told them too (he also fell out with Youngkin's Virginia GOP).

    Trump is also not as hardline against abortion as DeSantis is or Pence was so Trump won't be at all bothered by the Ohio ballot result either
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,347
    Cyclefree said:

    For fans of the Post Office Inquiry shitshow - this summary of Elaine Cottam's evidence yesterday by the wonderful Nick Wallis is a must read. The last paragraph pretty much sums it up - https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/what-was-she-drinking-the-elaine-cottam-experience/.

    Indeed.

    'It appears that Elaine Cottam genuinely didn’t know what a witness statement was, nor had she worked out what it might be by the end of her inquiry session.

    Beer’s questioning concluded shortly thereafter. He had, without being derailed, successfully demonstrated that Fujitsu had kept a serious software problem from a Subpostmaster who then lost money and subsequently her livelihood as a result of the callous ineptitude of Elaine Cottam and her colleagues at the Post Office. Having achieved this, it seems someone at the Post Office went on to produce a misleading witness statement supposedly authored by someone without the capacity or capability of being responsible for it.'
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    I wonder if there will ever be another Boris Johnson? - a Tory who wins the London Mayoralty twice, the first when he began as rank outsider, wins a referendum vs the establishment who were 1/4f, then a landslide at a GE, yet still have all his opponents refusing to admit he was really a threat, and kidding themselves they only wanted rid of him because he was a liability, rather than the bloke who kept beating them every time
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I've got that book, and it is excwllent.

    I have to disagree on the Victor though: it's fugly. The frontal view is awful IMV, with those windows between the massive intakes. The Valiant looked better, albeit a less adventurous and successful design. And of course, the Vulcan beats them all.
    Tbf the Vulcan was impressive at air shows. The way it could just roll forward what seemed just a few yards and then, whoosh, up it went. Them were the days. (You had to cover your ears for the F-104s though).
  • eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I’ve just given my wife the Christmas wish list…
    The greatest aircraft of all time.
    https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/concorde-10318
    Supposedly it's a boring kit to make...

    Between the family we are getting

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/hokusai-the-great-wave-31208

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/vincent-van-gogh-the-starry-night-21333

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/motorised-lighthouse-21335

    and https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/land-rover-classic-defender-90-10317

    for Christmas.
    Yours truly is NOT a fan of the wretched excess of modern Lego.

    However, do have my own collection of 3-D models made of what look mostly like crossword puzzle pieces mad of thinish foam rubber or similar, that I got and assembled over a decade ago.

    Including (in my order of preference) Empire State Building, Chrysler Building, Flatiron Building; also the skyscraper in Taipei that looks like either a) bamboo stalk; or b) stack of Chinese takeout boxes (personally think b, but will defer to the eminent PBer who is former Taipei resident but whose name escapes me.)

    Also the butt-ugly, Darth-Vaderesque Sears Tower in Chicago, which is what I still call it, officially the Willis Tower, but reckon that in the Windy City only corporate suckup types use the W-word.

    One practical advantage to models of skyscrapers is that they have relatively small footprints, which is helpful when your space is limited. Which is NOT the case for, say, the US Capitol, of which I also have a foam 3-D model.

    Note that I have model of St Basil's Cathedral on Red Square, Moscow that's still in its box, not having a suitable place to display it if I put it together.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,866

    TimS said:

    Off topic cookery tip. This evening I’ve returned to the perfect midweek dinner that’s both quick and seasonally appropriate, and sort of healthy.

    Lamb broth: leftover roast lamb from Sunday, cubes of potato, large chunks of carrot, roughly chopped onion, the leftover Sunday gravy, pearl barley, lots of black pepper and chopped parsley, and about 2 litres of water. Salt to be added to taste later.

    Took me 5 minutes to get all the ingredients peeled, chopped and in the pan and that was it. Now it simmers while I go off to hospital to be tested for a cat allergy and when I return it’ll be ready to serve.

    I assume the cat allergy check is optional.
    I remove cat from all recipes which obviates the problem.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    HYUFD said:

    If Boris was still PM the Conservatives would at least be polling over 30% and Reform would not be polling the 5-10% they are on (if anything RefUK voters think Boris was too strict on lockdowns so would welcome the fact it seems he was more reticent on that after all).

    Labour would also not be polling as high as it is now in the redwall, albeit the LDs might be doing a bit better again in the bluewall

    That’s a matter of conjecture. They were down at that level already by the time he left, and history up to then would suggest things were only going to get worse. For a start his backbenchers would continue to be restive and voters don’t like divided parties. And the Covid enquiry would see him plumbing the depths.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,894
    edited November 2023
    isam said:

    I wonder if there will ever be another Boris Johnson? - a Tory who wins the London Mayoralty twice, the first when he began as rank outsider, win a referendum vs the establishment who were 1/4f, then a landslide at a GE, yet still have all his opponents refusing to admit he was really a threat, and kidding themselves they only wanted rid of him because he was a liability, rather than the bloke who kept beating them every time

    The left wanted Boris gone as he was the most charismatic Conservative election winner since Thatcher, leaders like him only come round once a generation. The Tories may regret the day he left No 10 and Parliament unless a future Labour government completely wrecks the economy and they get in again by default (ironically much like Starmer is now due to cost of living primarily, he is no charismatic election winner for Labour like Blair was either)
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,133
    edited November 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Sad that such an important inquiry is being totally consumed by the who-said-what-when, rather than trying to actually understand what happened, and to genuinely learn lessons useful for the next emergency.

    Moreover, the focus is on the process by which the decisions are arrived at, not the wisdom or otherwise of those decisions.
    That's the trouble with having it controlled by judges, lawyers and other parasites. They are completely ignorant of, and uninterested in, the important policy issues, but are obsessed with process because it's what allows them to string things out in legal matters and charge extortionate fees. Bunch of crooks the lot of them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,973
    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Don't know if it affects anyone but the French Senate have backed automatic visas for second home owners. So the roll back of Brexit has started. Hopefully it passes and is just the beginning of a dismantling which will be speeded up when we get a Labour government

    Interesting. Presumably still ones you have to apply and pay for?

    EDIT: looked it up and does indeed look good news https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/French-senate-backs-automatic-visa-right-for-UK-second-home-owners#

    Ideally that could help me avoid the increasingly frequent holdups at immigration (in other countries, the French never bother) while passport people count up my stamps.
    It should do that and improve the saleability of French properties. Many people I know who like to base themselves there will be delighted.
    The French authorities finally realising that border pedantry only harms their own economy, and that the British are are great source of money no longer worth pissing off just for the hell of it?
    More likely they felt they owed us after an enormous increase in 'Tax Habitation' charges now abolished for non second home owners
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    HYUFD said:

    If Boris was still PM the Conservatives would at least be polling over 30% and Reform would not be polling the 5-10% they are on (if anything RefUK voters think Boris was too strict on lockdowns so would welcome the fact it seems he was more reticent on that after all).

    Labour would also not be polling as high as it is now in the redwall, albeit the LDs might be doing a bit better again in the bluewall

    If only your omniscience of what would have been could be converted into omniscience of what will be, you could make a fortune out of political betting!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,360
    isam said:

    I wonder if there will ever be another Boris Johnson? - a Tory who wins the London Mayoralty twice, the first when he began as rank outsider, wins a referendum vs the establishment who were 1/4f, then a landslide at a GE, yet still have all his opponents refusing to admit he was really a threat, and kidding themselves they only wanted rid of him because he was a liability, rather than the bloke who kept beating them every time

    Do you think he'd lead the Tories to victory again in 2024?

    I think he probably wouldn't, but he does have something special so hard to count him out.

    I do think there's an argument that he's a one off and essentially can't be copied.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited November 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    For fans of the Post Office Inquiry shitshow - this summary of Elaine Cottam's evidence yesterday by the wonderful Nick Wallis is a must read. The last paragraph pretty much sums it up - https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/what-was-she-drinking-the-elaine-cottam-experience/.

    Indeed.

    'It appears that Elaine Cottam genuinely didn’t know what a witness statement was, nor had she worked out what it might be by the end of her inquiry session.

    Beer’s questioning concluded shortly thereafter. He had, without being derailed, successfully demonstrated that Fujitsu had kept a serious software problem from a Subpostmaster who then lost money and subsequently her livelihood as a result of the callous ineptitude of Elaine Cottam and her colleagues at the Post Office. Having achieved this, it seems someone at the Post Office went on to produce a misleading witness statement supposedly authored by someone without the capacity or capability of being responsible for it.'
    "When asked about this sentence, Cottam said she didn’t remember asking for any call logs, didn’t remember receiving them and didn’t know why she needed them, because she wouldn’t understand them. She seemed utterly mystified at the idea she might be able to offer any analysis of them, and with the air of someone looking at hieroglyphics on a piece of wood, told the Inquiry:"

    That would be funny were this not so serious. This piece of work repeatedly tried to insinuate dishonesty by the husband of the SPM on no basis whatsoever despite being repeatedly challenged by the KC referring to it as the "suspicion without proof issue raising its head again?”

    Ropes and lampposts are too good for these people.

    Cottam has also thrown the lawyer under the bus here. This lawyer has given evidence already but will likely need to be recalled because it appears that she wrote the witness statement and/or coached the witness in a way which should get her struck off. Though my guess is that the SRA will prove even more ineffectual than the Met at nailing any of these bastards.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    HYUFD said:

    If Boris was still PM the Conservatives would at least be polling over 30% and Reform would not be polling the 5-10% they are on (if anything RefUK voters think Boris was too strict on lockdowns so would welcome the fact it seems he was more reticent on that after all).

    Labour would also not be polling as high as it is now in the redwall, albeit the LDs might be doing a bit better again in the bluewall

    Nope. If we was "still PM" the government would be in crisis after all these revelations. Anyway its a pointless hypothesis because even if he hadn't have been removed when he was, it would just have happened a bit later. Rishi would have struck and the chancellor going would have been terminal whatever. Thank goodness Sunak did what had to be done.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited November 2023

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    As @leon might argue, life is to be experienced in all its richness and diversity.

    In that spirit, and because Mrs Burgessian is having a clear-out, I've just for the very first time in my life put some items on ebay for sale.

    After just a few minutes already some action! Christ, this is exciting!

    (£5 bid for an Airfix 1:32 scale Triumph Herald, and an offer below starting bid price for a 1:72 scale Britten Norman Islander).

    This is how to while away winter afternoons for sure.

    Handley Page Victor? Cool!
    Was there ever a more striking and glamorous-looking aircraft? That crescent-shaped wing and the fluted tail. Extraordinary.

    The Vulcan gets all the kudos but for my money, the grace of the Victor outclasses it.

    Of the smaller planes there was the Hawker Hunter.

    There's a very good book on the post-war British aviation industry and the depressingly large number of opportunities that were squandered. "Empire of the Clouds" by James Hamilton-Paterson.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Clouds-Golden-Britains-Aircraft/dp/0571341489
    I’ve just given my wife the Christmas wish list…
    The greatest aircraft of all time.
    https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/concorde-10318
    Supposedly it's a boring kit to make...

    Between the family we are getting

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/hokusai-the-great-wave-31208

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/vincent-van-gogh-the-starry-night-21333

    https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/motorised-lighthouse-21335

    and https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/land-rover-classic-defender-90-10317

    for Christmas.
    Yours truly is NOT a fan of the wretched excess of modern Lego.

    However, do have my own collection of 3-D models made of what look mostly like crossword puzzle pieces mad of thinish foam rubber or similar, that I got and assembled over a decade ago.

    Including (in my order of preference) Empire State Building, Chrysler Building, Flatiron Building; also the skyscraper in Taipei that looks like either a) bamboo stalk; or b) stack of Chinese takeout boxes (personally think b, but will defer to the eminent PBer who is former Taipei resident but whose name escapes me.)

    Also the butt-ugly, Darth-Vaderesque Sears Tower in Chicago, which is what I still call it, officially the Willis Tower, but reckon that in the Windy City only corporate suckup types use the W-word.

    One practical advantage to models of skyscrapers is that they have relatively small footprints, which is helpful when your space is limited. Which is NOT the case for, say, the US Capitol, of which I also have a foam 3-D model.

    Note that I have model of St Basil's Cathedral on Red Square, Moscow that's still in its box, not having a suitable place to display it if I put it together.
    One of my favourite things in PB is being able to recognise a poster just by tone of voice. About half of the posters are identifiable in this way.

    Within the couple of seconds it took to read “yours truly is NOT a fan” I knew this was @SeaShantyIrish2
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,474
    isam said:

    I wonder if there will ever be another Boris Johnson? - a Tory who wins the London Mayoralty twice, the first when he began as rank outsider, wins a referendum vs the establishment who were 1/4f, then a landslide at a GE, yet still have all his opponents refusing to admit he was really a threat, and kidding themselves they only wanted rid of him because he was a liability, rather than the bloke who kept beating them every time

    But that's not true. There's lots of us lefties, like me, who readily admit that Boris was a threat and a formidable electoral machine who was very hard to beat. We may have been baffled by his huge appeal, but we never denied it.

    And yes, we wanted rid of him because he was a winner. But we failed - it wasn't us who got rid of him. It was his own party, with ample help from Boris himself.
This discussion has been closed.