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The polling chart that won’t help Sunak keep his job – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    But which different leader? It's all very well speculating about Penny Morduant, and were there a vacancy she may well win. But then again, she may not. It could be a nutcase or chancer or ideological zealot. But I repeat myself.

    Tory MPs have no idea what number is going to come up if they roll the leadership dice and dumping Sunak will only help if his replacement can clearly do a better job. Firstly, can someone do a better job of both articulating an attractive vision and running a government, and secondly, if there is such a person (or such people) what are their chances of winning and what are the risks if they don't?

    I think that barring an almighty screw-up over a particular issue, Sunak is there for the duration now. It's just too disruptive and too risky for too little return to change leader yet again - particularly when running a leadership contest is, of itself, likely to hit Tory polling merely for the navel-gazing.

    The problem is not the leader; the problem is the party.

    It's time.

    Her time.


    Was this covered already?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/15/liz-truss-growth-commission-alternative-growth-budget/

    "Liz Truss task force to challenge Treasury orthodoxy with alternative ‘Growth Budget’"
    She's doing an amazing job driving this agenda forward.
    Hm. Count me as agenda-critical, I'm afraid.
    It's a very good idea to introduce greater awareness of the impact of taxation on behaviour to our official economical forecasts. Hopefully this will make it harder for the OBR to get away with spouting so much shite.
    "We used to think that you could spend your way [to faster growth]... by cutting taxes and boosting Government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and that in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked... by injecting a bigger dose of infla­tion into the economy"

    Of course, it's entirely possible that balanced books no longer matter, and that one can cut one's way to prosperity.

    But Johnny Foreigner is under no obligation to buy the debt of the United Kingdom.

    It's also worth remembering that cutting taxes almost always goes into the trade deficit. More money in your pocket? New iPhone!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    Has this just happened?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Leon said:

    And it's still going on


    Children attacked by XL Bully

    https://x.com/BullyWatchUK/status/1712881957300740155?s=20

    Two women mauled by XL Bully - hospitalised

    https://x.com/BBCNews/status/1713158373502263313?s=20



    The government being overwhelmed by lots of different things: XL bully attacks, running out of prison places, possible recall petitions, etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    I wouldn't be too critical of "scum". After all, that's one of the places cyanobacteria live -- and we should be grateful to them, every time we take a breath.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

    And, admitedly, cautious about too much contact with some types of them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @estwebber

    I heard part of the reason Liz Truss did not reappoint Peter Bone as a minister last year was because she'd been made aware of the flashing allegation.

    Therese Coffey delivered the news to Bone, who was furious and believed he'd been improperly sacked
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Scott_xP said:

    @estwebber

    I heard part of the reason Liz Truss did not reappoint Peter Bone as a minister last year was because she'd been made aware of the flashing allegation.

    Therese Coffey delivered the news to Bone, who was furious and believed he'd been improperly sacked

    “Reappoint”? Did I miss him being one the first time? Christ, did Boris get that desperate?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,783
    edited October 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @estwebber

    I heard part of the reason Liz Truss did not reappoint Peter Bone as a minister last year was because she'd been made aware of the flashing allegation.

    Therese Coffey delivered the news to Bone, who was furious and believed he'd been improperly sacked

    Nicely done.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    malcolmg said:

    Sturgeon's denies being SNP's Liz Truss as she eclipses Yousaf at conference



    https://x.com/HTScotPol/status/1713914933560180846?s=20

    She was really successful, 15K at conference when she started and now down to a few hundred, fantastic record.
    Nicola Sturgeon pays a visit to the SNP conference to check up on the condition of her party


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to twenty percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 27% (-1)
    Lab 47% (+4)
    Lib Dem 10% (-2)
    Other 16% (-1)
    Fieldwork: 13th-16th October 2023
    Sample: 1,568 GB adults
    (Changes from 5th - 6th October 2023)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Andy_JS said:

    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    Has this just happened?
    Yes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,783
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    And it's still going on


    Children attacked by XL Bully

    https://x.com/BullyWatchUK/status/1712881957300740155?s=20

    Two women mauled by XL Bully - hospitalised

    https://x.com/BBCNews/status/1713158373502263313?s=20



    The government being overwhelmed by lots of different things: XL bully attacks, running out of prison places, possible recall petitions, etc.
    .. Where they left their coffee. What was it they were supposed to get at the shop on the way home.

    It's all too much for the current cabinet.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sturgeon's denies being SNP's Liz Truss as she eclipses Yousaf at conference



    https://x.com/HTScotPol/status/1713914933560180846?s=20

    She was really successful, 15K at conference when she started and now down to a few hundred, fantastic record.
    Nicola Sturgeon pays a visit to the SNP conference to check up on the condition of her party




    Sturgeon causes a rise in nationalist sentiment.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    The motive was “to avenge the Muslims”.

    https://x.com/mediavenir/status/1713992271752757514
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,783

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    I've met Penny a few times, she's engaging company, she even follows me on Twitter.

    Edit - She and I share a similar sense of humour, that's the sort of PM we want.
    She has all the elements, but when placed in a situation where she needs to perform (sword-carrying aside) she crumbles. Conference was her chance to showcase her leadership bid - everyone knew that's what it was. Suella grabbed the chance and delivered her speech brilliantly (regardless of the contents), and PM didn’t. It's sad.
    I felt rather the opposite - I found Suella a bit ranty, Kemi a bit underwhelming, and Penny quite rounded and humorous.

    They might make a good shadow cabinet mind you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    You don’t half bear a grudge! Rayner made a full public apology for that comment, didn’t she? And it was two years ago. Give the lass a break.
    My point is that she made a 'full public apology' - which some on here startlingly think was superb - after:

    *) After she doubled down on the comments.
    *) A month.
    *) After a Conservative MP was murdered.

    It was a typical 'forced' apology.

    If posters on here did not laud her for it, I would not feel the need to point out it was a really, rally poor thing for her to have done, and which showed her to have the political instincts of a Dodo.
    Istr that you're quite attached to the word scum yourself. Is it different for non politicians?
    Also exceedingly unfair to Didus ineptus. It wasn't the dodo's fault that lots of buccaneering Brexiters avant la lettre ate them all.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    viewcode said:

    In a world full of badness, here is some niceness

    BBC Press Office @bbcpress

    Blue Peter is 65 years young today! The very first broadcast of the longest running children’s TV show in the world was on 16 October 1958 - Happy Birthday. Read more at https://bbc.in/400f5Fy


    https://nitter.net/bbcpress/status/1713839725398692306#m

    Children's show hits state retirement age.

    Not quite, State Retirement Age is currently 66 years.

    #pedant
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Since you are discussing political cartoonists, here's an example from my favorite American cartoonist, Michael Ramirez:
    https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2023/10/11
    I thought he got that difficult subject just right.

    (Oh, and I smiled at his Modi cartoon, which was published on the 14th.)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Since you are discussing political cartoonists, here's an example from my favorite American cartoonist, Michael Ramirez:
    https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2023/10/11
    I thought he got that difficult subject just right.

    (Oh, and I smiled at his Modi cartoon, which was published on the 14th.)

    That’s powerful.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sturgeon's denies being SNP's Liz Truss as she eclipses Yousaf at conference



    https://x.com/HTScotPol/status/1713914933560180846?s=20

    She was really successful, 15K at conference when she started and now down to a few hundred, fantastic record.
    Nicola Sturgeon pays a visit to the SNP conference to check up on the condition of her party




    Sturgeon causes a rise in nationalist sentiment.
    Well, yet another cock up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Andy_JS said:

    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    Has this just happened?
    Yes. He had an AK47

    TBH we might be thankful only 2 have died (or so it seems). You'd think with an AK47 in a crowded place you could kill a lot more than that

    I wonder if, at the end of this horror, some left wing Jews who promoted mass migration and multiculturalism will start feeling a tad regretful
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,074
    Nigelb said:
    Holy shit, that's rubbish!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Its absolutely inhumane that people keep talking about getting just "a humanitarian corridor to Gaza".

    There ought to be a "humanitarian corridor from Gaza" to let people seek refuge in neighbouring states.

    Shame on the Arab world for turning their backs on their brethren and denying them refuge, while claiming to support Palestinians.

    Your ignorance of this subject is breathtaking. Instead of writing non stop nonsense why not try reading. There's plenty out there
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:
    Holy shit, that's rubbish!
    It appears he is normally employed by... The Morning Star


    I shit ye no shit


    "Multi Non-Award winning political cartoonist and illustrator. Published in the Morning Star. "

    https://twitter.com/thisisbilly_b
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    Penny is a great Commons performer, witty, forceful and able to command an audience. Its a pity she is so useless outside. She could be a very effective LOTO.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Matt always manages to find a genuinely funny take on the political story of the day.He is a national treasure.

    Matt is the Don Bradman of newspaper cartoonists, not just a bit better, but absolutely miles in front of second place.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    Penny is a great Commons performer, witty, forceful and able to command an audience. Its a pity she is so useless outside. She could be a very effective LOTO.

    You think ?

    I’m afraid I share Cyclefree’s assessment; she’s content free.
    That conference speech was embarrassing to watch.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    As a long-time Guardian reader and subscriber I have rarely found Steve Bell's cartoons funny and often found them puerile, sometimes offensive.

    He's no loss imo although I know he does have his fans and no doubt there will be letters of protest but I'm sure the Guardian will just shrug and move on.
    He had his moments, a long time ago, with the Falkland penguins etc. Not seen his stuff for a long time and not too surprised if he's just traded in the sometimes inspired humour for shock. A bit surprised the editor didnt just pull the offending cartoon tbh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited October 2023
    It appears the Guardian have done the incredible. Having sacked the worst cartoonist in history, Steve Bell, they have now, somehow, found someone even worse. "Billy B". I've just been thru his backlist on Morning Star. OMFG

    Chapeau to the Guardian editor for the pure dedication
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    Penny is a great Commons performer, witty, forceful and able to command an audience. Its a pity she is so useless outside. She could be a very effective LOTO.

    You think ?

    I’m afraid I share Cyclefree’s assessment; she’s content free.
    That conference speech was embarrassing to watch.
    Like I said: useless outside.

    It's very hard to see who else could do a better job as LOTO, as not exactly strong competition.

    On current polling she is a gonner anyway.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    Matt always manages to find a genuinely funny take on the political story of the day.

    He is a national treasure.
    No, he doesn’t. Most of his cartoons are mediocre. It’s just that every six to ten days he produces sheer genius: an enviable hit rate.
  • Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    Penny is a great Commons performer, witty, forceful and able to command an audience. Its a pity she is so useless outside. She could be a very effective LOTO.

    You think ?

    I’m afraid I share Cyclefree’s assessment; she’s content free.
    That conference speech was embarrassing to watch.
    She looks OK :blush:
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    His Princess Diana cartoons were the best and most daring anywhere. On form he's one of the best and he's prepared to tread where others wont
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    Has this just happened?
    Yes. He had an AK47

    TBH we might be thankful only 2 have died (or so it seems). You'd think with an AK47 in a crowded place you could kill a lot more than that

    I wonder if, at the end of this horror, some left wing Jews who promoted mass migration and multiculturalism will start feeling a tad regretful
    Sounds like the match has been abandoned at half time with the players refusing to come out for the second half. Stadium locked down and no one allowed to leave.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    The recent episode was, however, genuinely jarring and startling. Obviously competing for the next election for Tory leader and never mind the wider issues. Rather like the other competitots, admittedly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Can somebody suggest the likely timeline for Bone's Commons ban, recall petition, and the likely Wellingborough by-election?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:
    Holy shit, that's rubbish!
    Terrible.
    Yet actually I'd put that slightly above the average effort from Steve Bell.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yes the Tories may get more seats with Mordaunt as leader.
    The issue is they wouldn't get her as leader.

    Why on earth does anyone still rate her after her ludicrous and vacuous speech during the party conference? It was an embarrassment.
    She carried a sword. She doesn't represent the Badenoch or Braverman wings.
    Ah, so she represents the Empty Headed Wing and is the one the male members would like to f***. If only they could.

    I see it now.
    That line is beneath you - and it is one you have said the likes of before. Saying the *only* reason someone could have support is because of her attractiveness says more about you than her, or them.

    I actually rate her, but don't fancy her. Now, if I was to go solely on attractiveness I'd be firmly on team Rayner (*), but I think she's not particularly good, the 'scum' comment being an example.

    I'd rather have Mordaunt than Rayner as PM. But preferably neither.

    (*) I lived with a lovely redhead for four years.
    I could collect all the comments on here from the male members of this forum that show precisely that it was her attractiveness which interested them in her. It was embarrassing seeing it. But not at all unexpected. Though quite interesting seeing how many different ways of saying "phwoar - I fancy her" men could come up with.

    (Snip).
    Please do collect them, and compare them about comments made about other politicians.

    If you think she has 'vacuity of thinking', by all means attack that. Discounting her because you think her only appeal is that men find her attractive is not a valid or attractive argument, and one that says more about you than her.
    Sorry, but Cyclefree is right on this.
    You can argue she’s wrong to generalise in that manner, but it’s not as though there wasn’t plenty of evidence to generalise from.
    Most extraordinarily vicious remarks about Scotland a few weeks ago. Not exactly eirenic.

    Edit: I mean Ms Mordaunt not Cyclefree! But the change of tone was dramatic. As if she was trying to outcompete someone else.
    Vicious? Really? Didn't see that. She certainly enjoys winding up the SNP at Westminster though.
    Penny is a great Commons performer, witty, forceful and able to command an audience. Its a pity she is so useless outside. She could be a very effective LOTO.

    You think ?

    I’m afraid I share Cyclefree’s assessment; she’s content free.
    That conference speech was embarrassing to watch.
    She looks OK :blush:
    Spoken like a true 13 year old.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    His Princess Diana cartoons were the best and most daring anywhere. On form he's one of the best and he's prepared to tread where others wont
    His Scottish guinea pigs at the time of the Poll Tax were brilliant. Ditto the socialist Mesozoic mammals underfoot with Thatchasaurus roaming around. But admittedly a long time ago.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    AlistairM said:

    Apparently 2 dead in Brussels shooting. Both are Swedish football fans there for a match. Shooter still on the loose, videos are out there on Twitter. I think we are likely to see many more incidents like this, sadly.

    Has this just happened?
    Yes. He had an AK47

    TBH we might be thankful only 2 have died (or so it seems). You'd think with an AK47 in a crowded place you could kill a lot more than that

    I wonder if, at the end of this horror, some left wing Jews who promoted mass migration and multiculturalism will start feeling a tad regretful
    Sounds like the match has been abandoned at half time with the players refusing to come out for the second half. Stadium locked down and no one allowed to leave.
    This is grim as fuck, and it's going to get grimmer
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    Wulfrun Phil
    Thanks for your response, of course you are having a laugh. Me a troll working at Lib Dem HQ, one has to be kidding, and as for moving the markets I would not know where to start or frankly care.. I have posted on the site since before Cameron became leader!! Me and her indoors have been laughing about it for the last half an hour. All I can say is do not be so touchy.

    You will have observed that I was only saying what appears to be the case, I might be wrong, appearances can be deceptive but reports of doorstep body language are reports. You will note that I did not say the Lib Dems would win, they would have a mountain to climb bearing in mind a lot of the Labour vote from the General will be sticking with their party. This all gives the Conservative a good chance, but the Lib Dems may have another weapon, their candidate being the only woman, one who speaks well and gets her point across in a very succinct manner. 35% is probably the winning line, which should be withing the range of the Con and/or the Lib Dem.

    By the way the last time I voted in a General Election was 8 years ago and I voted tactically Conservative!!!!!!

    Hope you feel happier
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    His Princess Diana cartoons were the best and most daring anywhere. On form he's one of the best and he's prepared to tread where others wont
    hahahahahah

    This is why you never got beyond ad director (tampons)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    BELGIUM ELEVATES TERROR ALERT IN BRUSSELS TO HIGHEST LEVEL, INSTRUCTS CROWD AT BELGIUM-SWEDEN SOCCER MATCH TO REMAIN INSIDE STADIUM


    (not my caps, before you shout at me IN CAPS)

    https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1714011090726617296?s=20

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Why are people getting so triggered by a newspaper’s choice of cartoonist? I mean, why do they care so much? Most cartoonists are shit
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Oh for Gods sake you’re so dramatic ! Why don’t you give up the writing and embark on a stage career !
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Has anyone talked about the Steve Bell sacking? My feeling is that it's a poor decision by the Guardian. Cartoonists should be given the leeway to challenge anything they want particularly in a so called radical paper like the Guardian. The template should be Charlie Hebdo.

    The 'Je suis Charlie' campaign which attracted 1,300,000 demonstrators and most world leaders was about free speech not the sensitivity of assorted countries. Nor about bad taste a line which Steve Bell sometimes crosses. But that's what cartoonists are for

    Employed cartoonists are there to entertain their readers.
    There’s no right to lifetime employment, and he ceased being an asset to the publication quite some time back.

    This was paid for, not free speech, and it’s risible to equate the two things.
    Yes: you can get away with being offensive if you're funny. I'm not sure anything Steve Bell has ever produced has been funny. (He's not alone in this, of course. Almost no political cartoonists are ever funny.) It's hard to see what the Guardian are paying him for.
    His Princess Diana cartoons were the best and most daring anywhere. On form he's one of the best and he's prepared to tread where others wont
    His Scottish guinea pigs at the time of the Poll Tax were brilliant. Ditto the socialist Mesozoic mammals underfoot with Thatchasaurus roaming around. But admittedly a long time ago.
    To be honest, I don't think I took in much by him before New Labour. My first memory is one of Gus O'Donnell as a dog, the humour coming from the similarity of the words 'Bonio' (i.e. dog treats) and 'Cronio' (or croney, as everyone else on earth says). I goggled at the astonishing weakness of this for ooh, minutes. The weakness of it has stayed with me for years.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Yes silly blue hats as opposed to the white hoods that wouldn’t look out of place at those ridiculous no deal Brexit rallies, full of thick inbred trailer trash !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    I don’t see “remain” as an option? You’re talking about those who always bang on about Europe and want to join the EU. A very different thing, and not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    LOL. This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing. And will do with even greater vigour with the upcoming terror assault on all our cities
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    I don’t see “remain” as an option? You’re talking about those who always bang on about Europe and want to join the EU. A very different thing, and not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.
    Brexit is as popular as a turd in a swimming pool.

    It's only a matter of time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    rcs1000 said:

    But which different leader? It's all very well speculating about Penny Morduant, and were there a vacancy she may well win. But then again, she may not. It could be a nutcase or chancer or ideological zealot. But I repeat myself.

    Tory MPs have no idea what number is going to come up if they roll the leadership dice and dumping Sunak will only help if his replacement can clearly do a better job. Firstly, can someone do a better job of both articulating an attractive vision and running a government, and secondly, if there is such a person (or such people) what are their chances of winning and what are the risks if they don't?

    I think that barring an almighty screw-up over a particular issue, Sunak is there for the duration now. It's just too disruptive and too risky for too little return to change leader yet again - particularly when running a leadership contest is, of itself, likely to hit Tory polling merely for the navel-gazing.

    The problem is not the leader; the problem is the party.

    It's time.

    Her time.


    Was this covered already?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/15/liz-truss-growth-commission-alternative-growth-budget/

    "Liz Truss task force to challenge Treasury orthodoxy with alternative ‘Growth Budget’"
    She's doing an amazing job driving this agenda forward.
    Hm. Count me as agenda-critical, I'm afraid.
    It's a very good idea to introduce greater awareness of the impact of taxation on behaviour to our official economical forecasts. Hopefully this will make it harder for the OBR to get away with spouting so much shite.
    "We used to think that you could spend your way [to faster growth]... by cutting taxes and boosting Government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and that in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked... by injecting a bigger dose of infla­tion into the economy"

    Of course, it's entirely possible that balanced books no longer matter, and that one can cut one's way to prosperity.

    But Johnny Foreigner is under no obligation to buy the debt of the United Kingdom.

    It's also worth remembering that cutting taxes almost always goes into the trade deficit. More money in your pocket? New iPhone!
    Cutting taxes is not expenditure, and if that was Thatcher (assume it was) I disagree with the basis of her remark.

    Nobody is against balancing of the books, but the current Government isn't doing that anyway - they're using what fiscal headroom to have to fund the Bank's fiscal tightening mania. Borrowing only to piss the money straight up a wall. That money would be better off given to Michelle Mone in exchange for useless PPE - at least there might be a residual economical benefit as she buys a new yacht. Meanwhile, our ability to service our debt in the long term diminishes.

    Foreign lenders are far likelier to want to lend to a country with strong growth, not one with a flatlining economy and worsening public finances - that is where the real risk lies.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Can somebody suggest the likely timeline for Bone's Commons ban, recall petition, and the likely Wellingborough by-election?

    I think the Commons gets a vote on the proposed suspension. I just wonder if Tory MPs decide enough is enough and vote for a reduced suspension below the theshold for a recall. The results of Mid Beds and Tamworth may concentrate minds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited October 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Apparently to be let out early. You know, this law and order regime in Westminster being in their words "soft on criminals" when NuLab did exactly the same.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/16/thousands-of-prisoners-in-england-and-wales-could-be-released-up-to-18-days-early

    Though I don't know whether to be more startled at how little good it will do in practice. At a very rough estimate of an average sentence of 2 years for those affected (range is 0 to 4 years) that makes about 2.5% of places available. And that doesn't allow for places occupied by longer term prisoners.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    nico679 said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Yes silly blue hats as opposed to the white hoods that wouldn’t look out of place at those ridiculous no deal Brexit rallies, full of thick inbred trailer trash !
    Yes my teasing definitely marks me out as a member of the Ku Klux Clan, like everyone who voted leave…

    I would call you what you deserve to be called for that insult, but to do so is beneath me. I’m not down at your level.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    biggles said:

    not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.

    Nobody studied anything last time.

    When we are once again the sick man of Europe, the calls to rejoin will be loud enough that politicians can't ignore them, and the fuckwits who "delivered Brexit" will get short shrift
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Scott_xP said:

    @estwebber

    I heard part of the reason Liz Truss did not reappoint Peter Bone as a minister last year was because she'd been made aware of the flashing allegation.

    Therese Coffey delivered the news to Bone, who was furious and believed he'd been improperly sacked

    As I mentioned earlier Bone went to the same school as myself, although many years later. This afternoon I was talking to someone who has recently retired from teaching there, and is still in touch with the place. Apparently Bone was invited to speak at the Old Boys dinner a few years ago and an acquaintance of my friend had to sit next to him. The report was that it was the worst such event our informant had ever attended and certainly if Bone went again he certainly would not.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    LOL. This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing. And will do with even greater vigour with the upcoming terror assault on all our cities
    If it swings hard right then even Brexiters will want to Rejoin!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    I don’t see “remain” as an option? You’re talking about those who always bang on about Europe and want to join the EU. A very different thing, and not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.
    Brexit is as popular as a turd in a swimming pool.

    It's only a matter of time.
    You really believe that don’t you? My god you’re in for a life of disappointment politically speaking.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Leon said:

    This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing.

    Like Poland...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    LOL. This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing. And will do with even greater vigour with the upcoming terror assault on all our cities
    If it swings hard right then even Brexiters will want to Rejoin!
    A piquant paradox, I agree. But I am right. The soft left social democrat EU we left is already a memory, and a memory that will become evermore distant in coming years
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing.

    Like Poland...
    I refer you to the clip of Tusk above. PiS actually had a liberal immigration policy in practice and Tusk ran in opposition to it.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited October 2023
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
    Well yes it is in one way. I have no idea what it is about overly dramatic threatening language out of the middle east and most often zero delivery, but Israel does face strategic dilemma over its Northern border. In short, how involved will Hizbollah and the other Iranian backed militias get on the Syrian and Lebanon interfaces. If a report in the Israeli press is correct, one of the delays on the move into Gaza is a need to bolster its Northern defences. The kind of skirmishing going on at the moment is manageable but they havent cratered three airports in Syria to disrupt Iranian supply chains for nothing. They are concerned about something bigger up North.

    The under reported thing here is the Americans. The carrier groups in the Med are well publicised but there is a bigger build up, less visble. A lot of assets beyond the Navy are moving in, a lot, in order to deter or indeed, if rumour is to be believed, act in the event of a true multi-front war.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    I don’t see “remain” as an option? You’re talking about those who always bang on about Europe and want to join the EU. A very different thing, and not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.
    Brexit is as popular as a turd in a swimming pool.

    It's only a matter of time.
    You really believe that don’t you? My god you’re in for a life of disappointment politically speaking.
    The polling cannot be ignored forever. Not by a party wanting to win anyway.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Scott_xP said:

    biggles said:

    not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.

    Nobody studied anything last time.

    When we are once again the sick man of Europe, the calls to rejoin will be loud enough that politicians can't ignore them, and the fuckwits who "delivered Brexit" will get short shrift
    You lot don’t want to join the EU, you want to rejoin the 1990s. You have a nostalgia for a world that never was, just like UKIP used to for the 1950s. You’re the Conservatives now.

    I think Labour will end up moving on and being progressive like it always does (especially with a new load of Red Wall MPs) and you will end up in a sad little UKIP like pressure group or a pro-EU Tory party full of your nostalgic mates.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
    Well yes it is in one way. I have no idea what it is about overly dramatic threatening language out of the middle east and most often zero delivery, but Israel does face strategic dilemma over its Northern border. In short, how involved will Hizbollah and the other Iranian backed militias get on the Syrian and Lebanon interfaces. If a report in the Israeli press is correct, one of the delays on the move into Gaza is a need to bolster its Northern defences. The kind of skirmishing going on at the moment is manageable but they havent cratered three airports in Syria to disrupt Iranian supply chains for nothing. They are concerned about something bigger up North.

    The under reported thing here is the Americans. The carrier groups in the Med are well publicised but there is a bigger build up, less visble. A lot of assets beyond the Navy are moving in, a lot, in order to deter or indeed, if rumour is to be believed, act in the event of a true multi-front war.
    As I say, balls. Your last paragraph is the answer - Iran won’t instigate a direct confrontation because it wants there to still be an Iran.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Yes silly blue hats as opposed to the white hoods that wouldn’t look out of place at those ridiculous no deal Brexit rallies, full of thick inbred trailer trash !
    Yes my teasing definitely marks me out as a member of the Ku Klux Clan, like everyone who voted leave…

    I would call you what you deserve to be called for that insult, but to do so is beneath me. I’m not down at your level.
    I was being admittedly a bit over the top but if gobby can get away with it !
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
    Well yes it is in one way. I have no idea what it is about overly dramatic threatening language out of the middle east and most often zero delivery, but Israel does face strategic dilemma over its Northern border. In short, how involved will Hizbollah and the other Iranian backed militias get on the Syrian and Lebanon interfaces. If a report in the Israeli press is correct, one of the delays on the move into Gaza is a need to bolster its Northern defences. The kind of skirmishing going on at the moment is manageable but they havent cratered three airports in Syria to disrupt Iranian supply chains for nothing. They are concerned about something bigger up North.

    The under reported thing here is the Americans. The carrier groups in the Med are well publicised but there is a bigger build up, less visble. A lot of assets beyond the Navy are moving in, a lot, in order to deter or indeed, if rumour is to be believed, act in the event of a true multi-front war.
    What role do you expect Turkey to play?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    Misleading if terms of rejoin are not explicit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Misleading if terms of rejoin are not explicit.

    The terms of leaving were imaginary
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    Misleading if terms of rejoin are not explicit.
    Oh indeed, just like Brexit terms were (and still are, as the cvustoms controls have carefully not been finished).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing.

    Like Poland...
    Look at the facts, you idiot. Look at what Tusk said on immigration

    "Tusk started by referring to the riots sweeping France — echoing the same language used by Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki during last month’s European leaders’ summit dealing with the migration issue. To the fury of France, Morawiecki tweeted about the riots and said: “We don’t want such scenes in any city in Europe … stop illegal migration. Safety first.”

    Pivoting off the French riots, Tusk said that Kaczyński is “preparing a document that will allow even more people to come from countries like Saudi Arabia, India, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Nigeria and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.” He went on to accuse the government of bringing in 130,000 people from those countries last year, 50 times more than when Tusk’s party was in power in 2015."

    https://www.politico.eu/article/polish-politicians-donald-tusk-attack-migrants-for-electoral-gain/

    You're just a cretin driven mad by Brexit
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Scott_xP said:

    biggles said:

    not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.

    Nobody studied anything last time.

    When we are once again the sick man of Europe, the calls to rejoin will be loud enough that politicians can't ignore them, and the fuckwits who "delivered Brexit" will get short shrift
    The great hope of remainers? That the U.K. does so poorly it is forced cap in hand to beg for a return to the EU?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    ...

    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
    Well yes it is in one way. I have no idea what it is about overly dramatic threatening language out of the middle east and most often zero delivery, but Israel does face strategic dilemma over its Northern border. In short, how involved will Hizbollah and the other Iranian backed militias get on the Syrian and Lebanon interfaces. If a report in the Israeli press is correct, one of the delays on the move into Gaza is a need to bolster its Northern defences. The kind of skirmishing going on at the moment is manageable but they havent cratered three airports in Syria to disrupt Iranian supply chains for nothing. They are concerned about something bigger up North.

    The under reported thing here is the Americans. The carrier groups in the Med are well publicised but there is a bigger build up, less visble. A lot of assets beyond the Navy are moving in, a lot, in order to deter or indeed, if rumour is to be believed, act in the event of a true multi-front war.
    What role do you expect Turkey to play?
    Supporting each side on alternate days until America gives them lots of money would be my wild stab in the dark.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    edited October 2023
    For "winners" the Brexiteers are still really, really fucking touchy about it...

    You guys need to have a group hug, although I guess liking each others posts will have to do for now
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Scott_xP said:

    Misleading if terms of rejoin are not explicit.

    The terms of leaving were imaginary
    Also irrelevant. We are where we are, but simply asking ‘rejoin’ vs ‘stay out’ without knowing the bill is pointless.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to change as it becomes obvious the entire EU swings hard right, as it is already doing.

    Like Poland...
    I refer you to the clip of Tusk above. PiS actually had a liberal immigration policy in practice and Tusk ran in opposition to it.
    You mean the one where they were flogging off visas for money and where they were droning on about the evil EU.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Well done to all those younger people in Poland for taking back control !

    Remarkable turnout in younger people was key to removing the PiS bigots and hate mongers .

    This is a great day for Liberal democracies who are under constant attack from the right wing who seek to peddle hate and division and try and trash democracy .

    And a warm welcome back to Donald Tusk , who should become the next PM. He was always a champion for Remainers , and was very effected by the vote . A truly lovely man.

    Tusk’s anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign went further than Suella Braverman.

    https://x.com/donaldtusk/status/1675381156513038336
    He did what he had to do to remove the PiS .

    Tusk will always be loved by Remainers.
    I remember Remainers. Didn’t they used to be the ones in the silly blue hats? Whatever happened to them and their campaign?
    Funny that you should say that:


    Misleading if terms of rejoin are not explicit.
    Oh indeed, just like Brexit terms were (and still are, as the cvustoms controls have carefully not been finished).
    I don’t disagree - Brexit was exactly whatever you wanted it to be. A chimera, a mirage. But this kind of polling is not realistic.
  • Scott_xP said:

    biggles said:

    not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.

    Nobody studied anything last time.

    When we are once again the sick man of Europe, the calls to rejoin will be loud enough that politicians can't ignore them, and the fuckwits who "delivered Brexit" will get short shrift
    The great hope of remainers? That the U.K. does so poorly it is forced cap in hand to beg for a return to the EU?
    Yep. Some of them like Scott would rather see the UK completely crash and burn as punishment for daring to vote Leave.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    simply asking ‘rejoin’ vs ‘stay out’ without knowing the bill is pointless.

    Asking leave without knowing the bill* worked a charm

    *actually we did know the bill. It was mischaracterized as Project Fear.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Scott_xP said:

    biggles said:

    not something that would survive a referendum campaign when folk studied the EU they’d be joining and what was involved.

    Nobody studied anything last time.

    When we are once again the sick man of Europe, the calls to rejoin will be loud enough that politicians can't ignore them, and the fuckwits who "delivered Brexit" will get short shrift
    The great hope of remainers? That the U.K. does so poorly it is forced cap in hand to beg for a return to the EU?
    Not going to happen. We will continue to grow at least as fast as average, more probably a tad faster given our demographic advantages. But no doubt it will be argued that we would have done even better.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Can somebody suggest the likely timeline for Bone's Commons ban, recall petition, and the likely Wellingborough by-election?

    I think the Commons gets a vote on the proposed suspension. I just wonder if Tory MPs decide enough is enough and vote for a reduced suspension below the theshold for a recall. The results of Mid Beds and Tamworth may concentrate minds.
    The lesson from Tamworth is that Johnson might still be PM if he hadn't tried to find a way out for a disgraced MP. Surely Sunak wouldn't dare to try to repeat the trick and try and find a way out for Bone?

    And anyway, some Tory MPs who have all but given up on their own seats might be quite interested in jumping ship to stand in Wellingborough to try and retake it at the GE after a by-election loss. Sacrificing Bone could open up an opportunity for one of them.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:
    Holy shit, that's rubbish!
    Terrible.
    Yet actually I'd put that slightly above the average effort from Steve Bell.
    So many of today's political cartoons are stupendously poor, I am tempted to have a go myself. It's only my lack of talent and ambition that holds me back.
    I'm sure you could come up with something clever or pointed, Ben.
    Most of these fellas have mistaken an undoubted ability with a characature (sp?) as an ability with biting political satire.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Heathener said:

    @MikeSmithson well, yes they would.

    They would win most seats with Boris Johnson. But he's no longer an MP. Not sure he has to be?

    As a left-of-centre pragmatist it's Johnson whom I fear. Everyone else = Labour majority, probable landslide. Penny Mordaunt is getting like Liz Truss Mk II. I mean, she's really a bit ... strange at times. Perhaps most of the time. Holding a phallus doesn't a good PM make.

    *This is not an endorsement of Boris Johnson. He's a shit. But he is a shit who reaches parts no other tories can.

    How are we the only two people on here who think this? It seems so obvious
    Lots of people (inc me) think the Cons would be trailing by less in the polls if Boris Johnson had somehow survived. But he made that impossible by his conduct. It was so bad that even Tory MPs could stomach it no longer.
    I think it is incorrect to think the party would be doing better if they'd kept Boris, because it omits to take into account what would have happened in the intervening year. It would not have been a static situation; the utter chaos which characterised the latter part of his premiership would only have got worse, the Standards Committee issue would have been a gigantic problem, further partygate scandals and other chickens would have been coming back to roost, he would probably not have defused the NI Protocol ticking bomb as Sunak did, and behind the scenes there would still have been Carrie.
    Kinabalu's is a self fulfilling argument:

    "The Cons would be trailing by less in the polls if Boris Johnson had somehow survived..."

    Possibly true. Because to have somehow survived, Johnson would have had to not do the things which, since he did do them, meant he didn't survive.
    Yes that's also true.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    From the vids it is quite hard to believe only two are dead in Brussels. I hope, however, that this is the case

    It seems the Belgian police have yet to catch the infernal miscreant. He bugged out on a scooter and is still at large. With an AK47
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran is joining in the fun

    🇮🇷🇵🇸🇱🇧⚔️🇮🇱🏴‍ Iranian Foreign Minister: It is expected that in the coming hours, the Axis of Resistance or the Islamic Republic of Iran will take any preemptive action against the Zionist entity.

    https://x.com/Hawkeye1745/status/1714006462232510902?s=20

    This is it lads, the big one. Time for a group hug. It's been a gas

    Balls.
    Well yes it is in one way. I have no idea what it is about overly dramatic threatening language out of the middle east and most often zero delivery, but Israel does face strategic dilemma over its Northern border. In short, how involved will Hizbollah and the other Iranian backed militias get on the Syrian and Lebanon interfaces. If a report in the Israeli press is correct, one of the delays on the move into Gaza is a need to bolster its Northern defences. The kind of skirmishing going on at the moment is manageable but they havent cratered three airports in Syria to disrupt Iranian supply chains for nothing. They are concerned about something bigger up North.

    The under reported thing here is the Americans. The carrier groups in the Med are well publicised but there is a bigger build up, less visble. A lot of assets beyond the Navy are moving in, a lot, in order to deter or indeed, if rumour is to be believed, act in the event of a true multi-front war.
    What role do you expect Turkey to play?
    No idea, If I stuck a tenner on it, it would be to bet on 'next to none'.
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