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How Corbyn could give the Mayoralty to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,216
edited September 2023 in General
How Corbyn could give the Mayoralty to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Jeremy Corbyn would deny Sadiq Khan a third term if he runs for London mayor next year, new polling suggestsWithout Corbyn, Khan beats Hall 33 per cent to 32 per centWhen included, JC polls 15 per cent – Khan 25 per cent, Hall 30 per cent Hear more on @TimesRadio shortly pic.twitter.com/EruUnrzlim

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Comments

  • Corbyn should stand for parliament in Keir Starmer's constituency, for the lols. He might even win it.
  • OT Goodwood Revival livestream for fans of very old cars driving round in circles. No penny-farthings decked yet.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxohhpX2kfM
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    On Topic No chance if Jezza stands he wins
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    Seems like the Government's plans for housing asylum seekers are running into yet more trouble.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/west-lindsey-district-council-issues-notice-at-raf-scampton-for-contractors-to-cease-all-works/ar-AA1gqzsg?

    The thing is, whatever your view on asylum seekers, or where to house them, or indeed on the planning laws, the Government is duty bound to obey the existing laws as they stand. Simply thinking they can ride roughshod over their legal obligations and ignore all the other authorities involved shows a degree of arrogance and incompetance that I would have called remarkable had it been any other organisation. It just seems to be par for the course with this lot.

    (FPT) I see the archaeology is part of the issue - contractors digging and shovelling and dozing regardless.

    You'd have thought this Government of all governments would know the cultural and historical significance of RAF Scampton.

    *hums Dambusters March in an ironical fashion*
  • On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    Prsesumably the drop in Ms Hall's score when Mr C runs is MoE rather than a real thing?
  • This should be a prime example of 'bs polls'.

    Like people answering that they have been beheaded.

    I may be putting too much faith in Londoners but I don't think there's a snowballs chance in today's weather that this would actually happen. Expressing discontentment with Khan/Starmer in a bs poll and actually voting accordingly are two very different things.
  • Carnyx said:

    Seems like the Government's plans for housing asylum seekers are running into yet more trouble.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/west-lindsey-district-council-issues-notice-at-raf-scampton-for-contractors-to-cease-all-works/ar-AA1gqzsg?

    The thing is, whatever your view on asylum seekers, or where to house them, or indeed on the planning laws, the Government is duty bound to obey the existing laws as they stand. Simply thinking they can ride roughshod over their legal obligations and ignore all the other authorities involved shows a degree of arrogance and incompetance that I would have called remarkable had it been any other organisation. It just seems to be par for the course with this lot.

    (FPT) I see the archaeology is part of the issue - contractors digging and shovelling and dozing regardless.

    You'd have thought this Government of all governments would know the cultural and historical significance of RAF Scampton.

    *hums Dambusters March in an ironical fashion*
    There is also at least one Roman villa on the site and numerous other RB remains. The A15 (The Roman Ermine Way) was actually diverted around Scampton when the airfield was built so the main Roamn road linking London to York and Hardrians Wall runs underneath the airbase.
  • On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    It is part of this tired "London is a Labour city" meme. There have been six Mayoral elections and Labour has won just three of them. 50 per cent in old money.
  • Carnyx said:

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    Prsesumably the drop in Ms Hall's score when Mr C runs is MoE rather than a real thing?
    Could be real if we posit an anti-Khan, anti-Ulez vote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    Seems like the Government's plans for housing asylum seekers are running into yet more trouble.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/west-lindsey-district-council-issues-notice-at-raf-scampton-for-contractors-to-cease-all-works/ar-AA1gqzsg?

    The thing is, whatever your view on asylum seekers, or where to house them, or indeed on the planning laws, the Government is duty bound to obey the existing laws as they stand. Simply thinking they can ride roughshod over their legal obligations and ignore all the other authorities involved shows a degree of arrogance and incompetance that I would have called remarkable had it been any other organisation. It just seems to be par for the course with this lot.

    It's the same when ministers deride legal challenges. Yes you get Jolyon tykes engaging in lawfare, politics by other means, but a lot of the time when challenges succeed its sloppy work by the government which failed to account for other laws it put in place.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587
    I don't think Corbyn will run. He might as well, it's the kind of role and campaign he'd probably like, but he's stuck with the party all this time. He's going to quit niw rather than be the suffering martyr? I don't think personality wise he'd do a Livingstone.
  • On Topic No chance if Jezza stands he wins

    Bollards.

    Starmer is more popular in London than Corbyn.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    Carnyx said:

    Seems like the Government's plans for housing asylum seekers are running into yet more trouble.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/west-lindsey-district-council-issues-notice-at-raf-scampton-for-contractors-to-cease-all-works/ar-AA1gqzsg?

    The thing is, whatever your view on asylum seekers, or where to house them, or indeed on the planning laws, the Government is duty bound to obey the existing laws as they stand. Simply thinking they can ride roughshod over their legal obligations and ignore all the other authorities involved shows a degree of arrogance and incompetance that I would have called remarkable had it been any other organisation. It just seems to be par for the course with this lot.

    (FPT) I see the archaeology is part of the issue - contractors digging and shovelling and dozing regardless.

    You'd have thought this Government of all governments would know the cultural and historical significance of RAF Scampton.

    *hums Dambusters March in an ironical fashion*
    There is also at least one Roman villa on the site and numerous other RB remains. The A15 (The Roman Ermine Way) was actually diverted around Scampton when the airfield was built so the main Roamn road linking London to York and Hardrians Wall runs underneath the airbase.
    My, you're quite right (never doubted it, I hasten to add, but the maps do show it). And also RFC(?)/RAF Great War, and Cold WAr (the Blue Steel Vulcans) too.

    https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/raf-scampton-historic-characterisation/figures-1-5/

    What next, are Mdmes/Messrs Braverman and Jenrick et al going to dig up Dover Castle or Housesteads fort?
  • The thread could just as easily be titled: "How the Greens and LDs could give the Mayorality to the Tories." There's only 1 point in it even without Corbyn, and between them those two parties would poll 25% between them.

    I would be interested in seeing GE voting intention across London which may well have also been a question asked in this poll. I think it would confirm that Khan is a serious drag on his party in London now.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    The thread could just as easily be titled: "How the Greens and LDs could give the Mayorality to the Tories." There's only 1 point in it even without Corbyn, and between them those two parties would poll 25% between them.

    I would be interested in seeing GE voting intention across London which may well have also been a question asked in this poll. I think it would confirm that Khan is a serious drag on his party in London now.

    'Now' is the issue. Time yet for it to adjust after the mendacious ULEZ hysteria.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,061
    Carnyx said:

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    Prsesumably the drop in Ms Hall's score when Mr C runs is MoE rather than a real thing?
    Some of her vote could be Anyone But Khan.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited September 2023

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    ULEZ effect on the outer London boroughs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,930
    Even without Corbyn it is near neck and neck between Khan and Hall. Showing he will have a tough time becoming the first London Mayor to get a 3rd term
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,387
    edited September 2023

    On Topic No chance if Jezza stands he wins

    Bollards.

    Starmer is more popular in London than Corbyn.
    Starmers not standing for Mayor though? Isn't it possible Londoners might want Corbyn for Mayor and SKS for PM?

    Same scenario happened with Livingstone and Blair in the 2000s.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    It is part of this tired "London is a Labour city" meme. There have been six Mayoral elections and Labour has won just three of them. 50 per cent in old money.
    And the Tories have one just two of them. 33% in round numbers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Corbyn should stand for parliament in Keir Starmer's constituency, for the lols. He might even win it.

    One thing is for certain if SKS stood in Islington North he would be out
  • On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    It is part of this tired "London is a Labour city" meme. There have been six Mayoral elections and Labour has won just three of them. 50 per cent in old money.
    And the Tories have one just two of them. 33% in round numbers.
    The Conservatives should have done better last time but CCHQ convinced itself Shaun Bailey could not win (although as Bailey later got mixed up in partygate, some Tories may see this as a lucky escape).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    GIN1138 said:

    On Topic No chance if Jezza stands he wins

    Bollards.

    Starmer is more popular in London than Corbyn.
    Starmers not standing for Mayor though? Isn't it possible Londoners might want Corbyn for Mayor and SKS for PM?

    Same scenario happened with Livingstone and Blair in the 2000s.
    File under 'technically possible but not going to happen'.
  • novanova Posts: 695

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    Almost certainly ULEZ related, as there's a big change since the last polling, which was before Uxbridge.

    However, I'd assume that tactical voting would be a lot more obvious in an actual election - especially since past elections weren't FPTP. You'd hope the message would get through that it's Tory v Labour, and people vote in that race, rather than lots of votes for no hopers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited September 2023
    GIN1138 said:

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    ULEZ effect on the outer London boroughs?
    ULEZ will have a major impact in 8 months' time given the way it has stayed firmly in the headlines with daily rioting on the streets and...

    Oh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



  • HYUFD said:

    Even without Corbyn it is near neck and neck between Khan and Hall. Showing he will have a tough time becoming the first London Mayor to get a 3rd term

    Or showing how ridiculous this poll is.

    65% combined for first two candidates is ridiculously low, especially given next time is FPTP. For context it was 75% last time and I see no reason to believe 10% extra would go to third parties next time.

    For further context that would be a lower combined share for top two candidates than has ever occurred, even in 2000 when Livingstone ran against the Labour Party.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    On Topic No chance if Jezza stands he wins

    Bollards.

    Starmer is more popular in London than Corbyn.
    Susan Hall is more popular in London than Corbyn. Look on my works ye mighty and despair.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    HYUFD said:

    Even without Corbyn it is near neck and neck between Khan and Hall. Showing he will have a tough time becoming the first London Mayor to get a 3rd term

    Or showing how ridiculous this poll is.

    65% combined for first two candidates is ridiculously low, especially given next time is FPTP. For context it was 75% last time and I see no reason to believe 10% extra would go to third parties next time.

    For further context that would be a lower combined share for top two candidates than has ever occurred, even in 2000 when Livingstone ran against the Labour Party.
    It is a R&W poll, not a Daily Wotsit voodoo poll ...
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even without Corbyn it is near neck and neck between Khan and Hall. Showing he will have a tough time becoming the first London Mayor to get a 3rd term

    Or showing how ridiculous this poll is.

    65% combined for first two candidates is ridiculously low, especially given next time is FPTP. For context it was 75% last time and I see no reason to believe 10% extra would go to third parties next time.

    For further context that would be a lower combined share for top two candidates than has ever occurred, even in 2000 when Livingstone ran against the Labour Party.
    It is a R&W poll, not a Daily Wotsit voodoo poll ...
    So?

    Midterm polls often produce bullshit results that bear no resemblance to the actual outcome of the election.

    Just ask EICIPM. Or Theresa landslide majority May.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan
  • Carnyx said:

    On topic

    I am amazed at those numbers. Not the Corbyn effect but the fact that even without him the race is so tight. I had though Khan was likely to walk it.

    Prsesumably the drop in Ms Hall's score when Mr C runs is MoE rather than a real thing?
    It will be base effects. I expect there are lots of don't knows in a race between Khan and Hall, and somewhat fewer when Corbyn stands.
  • HYUFD said:

    Even without Corbyn it is near neck and neck between Khan and Hall. Showing he will have a tough time becoming the first London Mayor to get a 3rd term

    Khan is undoubtedly unpopular in many parts of outer London, as Labour mayors often are but more so. I suspect he'll win reelection especially as the ULEZ broohaha recedes but I think his unpopularity goes beyond ULEZ and I can easily imagine it being close despite the Tory candidate being an absolute whack job.
  • Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    Surely Susan Hall is joyful enough?

    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?
  • If Hall wins, there will be a lot of hysteria about FPTP and calls for Starmer to introduce PR for Westminster.
  • Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
  • If Hall wins, there will be a lot of hysteria about FPTP and calls for Starmer to introduce PR for Westminster.

    You say hysteria I say justifiable rage!
  • kle4 said:

    I don't think Corbyn will run. He might as well, it's the kind of role and campaign he'd probably like, but he's stuck with the party all this time. He's going to quit niw rather than be the suffering martyr? I don't think personality wise he'd do a Livingstone.

    Would he enjoy being Mayor? I rather doubt it.

    Firstly, it's about boring but necessary things, like transport and policing. Ken, for all his posing, actually got that and played the game- advancing international socialism by introducing the Oyster card. I don't see Jezza having that ability or inclination.

    Secondly, it's about compromising with reality, not just giving everyone what they want. No sign at all of Corbyn ever having done that.

    Fortunately, it doesn't matter. This poll puts him neck-and-neck with the Lib Dems, and they aren't going to win either.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Yes, they are one of a few good producers in that area. I've not tried their wine but it's well marketed.

    It's a sort of secondary hub for English wine after the Hants-Sussex-Kent-Essex core. From NW Somerset up through the Marches to mid Herefordshire with a lot of the best land on the Hereford/Gloucs borders, and along the Wye Valley in Monmouthshire.

    Alongside the grande dame 3 Choirs which makes the best value cheap wine in England, my favourite ones are Ancre Hill (in process of being sold I think) and Sixteen Ridges which is incredibly innovative and pretty large scale.
  • Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    Khan = power-hungry Marxist!
  • If Hall wins, there will be a lot of hysteria about FPTP and calls for Starmer to introduce PR for Westminster.

    You say hysteria I say justifiable rage!
    If Hall wins, and it's a ridiculous if but let's ride with it, then it'll be because Hall attracted more votes than any other candidate.

    If that happens, she'd deserve the win.

    Don't blame the system, just win more votes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
  • Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    https://mymodernmet.com/cheddar-man-relative/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215

    If Hall wins, there will be a lot of hysteria about FPTP and calls for Starmer to introduce PR for Westminster.

    Hall winning might be helpful for the broader centre-left on a number of fronts:

    - It means there's an incumbent Tory Labour can point to as failing, and she's not the most exciting character (assuming that happens - but it's certainly helped the Tories having Khan on the throne)
    - It makes PR more likely to bubble up in debate
    - It signals to the rest of the country that the Tories are a London and SE elite party
    - For Labour, it reduces the risk of red-on-red squabbles under a Labour government (as they may experience with Burnham in Manchester)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Yes, they are one of a few good producers in that area. I've not tried their wine but it's well marketed.

    It's a sort of secondary hub for English wine after the Hants-Sussex-Kent-Essex core. From NW Somerset up through the Marches to mid Herefordshire with a lot of the best land on the Hereford/Gloucs borders, and along the Wye Valley in Monmouthshire.

    Alongside the grande dame 3 Choirs which makes the best value cheap wine in England, my favourite ones are Ancre Hill (in process of being sold I think) and Sixteen Ridges which is incredibly innovative and pretty large scale.
    I may have been in an overly good mood - sunshine, beautiful countryside and free booze can do that - but the white wine came over as rather marvellous. Premium price point, however
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Precisely, trying to bring your stuff to the world is typically the petty bureaucratic way to behave.

    For people who just want to live their own lives bringing joy to their family and friends, not their petty bureaucratic "joy" imposed upon the rest of the world, then yes outside London is a good place to look.
  • Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    Trouble is that there isn't one. I guess they would really like a younger Steve Norris- extrovert, interested in transport, tolerant of the exuberances of youth. But they don't have one that I can think of.

    At some point in the mid 2010s, the Conservatives decided that there were more votes to be had being against the idea of London than for it. That has consequences that would fit well in one of those "How it started" / "How it's going" memes.

    The other odd thing is that nobody is really questioning Khan's ongoing Mayorality on the red team.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    kle4 said:

    I don't think Corbyn will run. He might as well, it's the kind of role and campaign he'd probably like, but he's stuck with the party all this time. He's going to quit niw rather than be the suffering martyr? I don't think personality wise he'd do a Livingstone.

    Would he enjoy being Mayor? I rather doubt it.

    Firstly, it's about boring but necessary things, like transport and policing. Ken, for all his posing, actually got that and played the game- advancing international socialism by introducing the Oyster card. I don't see Jezza having that ability or inclination.

    Secondly, it's about compromising with reality, not just giving everyone what they want. No sign at all of Corbyn ever having done that.

    Fortunately, it doesn't matter. This poll puts him neck-and-neck with the Lib Dems, and they aren't going to win either.
    I would think, in the event of a Corbyn run (or, indeed, without) the LD vote is very squeezable. The LD is not going to win (as you post) and Khan is a hell of a lot more acceptable to most LDs than Hall, surely.

    The voting system change is low. There's no reason for it at all other than to give the Tories the chance of chance (and, perhaps, to encourage some scrapping between the other parties).
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    If he does stand I'd have him focus on housing, really pushing affordable rents for the little people of London. Large surcharges on shiny developments to subsidise council housing. Keeping communities together etc etc

    Big, almost universally popular ideas that means he stands out from Khan & the crazy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Precisely, trying to bring your stuff to the world is typically the petty bureaucratic way to behave.

    For people who just want to live their own lives bringing joy to their family and friends, not their petty bureaucratic "joy" imposed upon the rest of the world, then yes outside London is a good place to look.
    Absolute lol. The rebel yell from a semi near Macclesfield
  • If he does stand I'd have him focus on housing, really pushing affordable rents for the little people of London. Large surcharges on shiny developments to subsidise council housing. Keeping communities together etc etc

    Big, almost universally popular ideas that means he stands out from Khan & the crazy.

    If you want affordable rents why would you surcharge developments? It's the relative lack of the supply of developments for the demand that makes housing expensive.

    Have many and more shiny developments and everyone could afford to live in an affordable shiny development.

    Building slums is not the solution to the lack of housing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,587

    If Hall wins, there will be a lot of hysteria about FPTP and calls for Starmer to introduce PR for Westminster.

    You say hysteria I say justifiable rage!
    If Hall wins, and it's a ridiculous if but let's ride with it, then it'll be because Hall attracted more votes than any other candidate.

    If that happens, she'd deserve the win.

    Don't blame the system, just win more votes.
    I think the pretext to moving to FPTP for mayoralties was weak, but it's not like there was something sacred about the supplemental vote approach.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    Trouble is that there isn't one. I guess they would really like a younger Steve Norris- extrovert, interested in transport, tolerant of the exuberances of youth. But they don't have one that I can think of.

    At some point in the mid 2010s, the Conservatives decided that there were more votes to be had being against the idea of London than for it. That has consequences that would fit well in one of those "How it started" / "How it's going" memes.

    The other odd thing is that nobody is really questioning Khan's ongoing Mayorality on the red team.
    It’s a very good point. Surely someone in Labour must think “London mayor is a fun job, khan is a charmless dork who could lose, I’d like a pop”?

    Ed balls? He’s got the sort of ebullient persona which might suit the job
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
    Presumably a close relation of Anthea McIntyre, a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, who according to Wikipedia is a partner in the estate and lives there or nearby.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,947
    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    When I used to visit the walled city in Sana'a, Yemen, many of the houses there were over a thousand years old. And lived in by the same families that built them.

    It is possible some of those houses have now been rased to the ground in the conflict, mind.

    By the by, loving the idea that the Tories lose two points when Corbyn stands. Shy Blue-Marxists?

  • I just do not see Corbyn standing and letting in the conservative, but the reaction of a likely labour civil war is really rather funny

    And first sighting of escaped prisoner apparently
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
    Presumably a close relation of Anthea McIntyre, a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, who according to Wikipedia is a partner in the estate and lives there or nearby.
    Sister, I believe. Lives in “the cider house”

    I noticed a photo of William Hague with the family in the downstairs loo
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    Trouble is that there isn't one. I guess they would really like a younger Steve Norris- extrovert, interested in transport, tolerant of the exuberances of youth. But they don't have one that I can think of.

    At some point in the mid 2010s, the Conservatives decided that there were more votes to be had being against the idea of London than for it. That has consequences that would fit well in one of those "How it started" / "How it's going" memes.

    The other odd thing is that nobody is really questioning Khan's ongoing Mayorality on the red team.
    It’s a very good point. Surely someone in Labour must think “London mayor is a fun job, khan is a charmless dork who could lose, I’d like a pop”?

    Ed balls? He’s got the sort of ebullient persona which might suit the job
    I'd back term limits for mayors. Two terms is enough - after that there's space for some new ideas, even if from the same party.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    When I used to visit the walled city in Sana'a, Yemen, many of the houses there were over a thousand years old. And lived in by the same families that built them.

    It is possible some of those houses have now been rased to the ground in the conflict, mind.

    By the by, loving the idea that the Tories lose two points when Corbyn stands. Shy Blue-Marxists?

    Impressive. Definitely a contender

    I know there are Japanese family firms that date back to absurdly early times. 650AD or something. But I wonder if they’ve always lived in the same house..
  • I just do not see Corbyn standing and letting in the conservative, but the reaction of a likely labour civil war is really rather funny

    And first sighting of escaped prisoner apparently

    I hope each and every one of you is doing a hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area. Checkpoints go up at fifteen miles.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    If it's never been bought or sold since time immemorial the house won't appear on the Land Registry file. But if it receives post it will appear on the Postal Address File. Download both datasets (you'll have to pay I think?) and find those on one but not the other. Have a look at them and pick the rich ones in nice places so you can talk to them without crying. Go to your editor at the Flint Knappers Gazette, tell them you've found a way to talk to poshos whilst doing The State Of This copy, trouser the X thousand and go write some more words ("I was struck by the contrast between this 13th century barn and this Heinz tin. Oh, my country, I weep for you"). There y'go.

    Oh, bear in mind each file will have tens of millions of addresses and some versions of Excel can't(?) handle that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
    Presumably a close relation of Anthea McIntyre, a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, who according to Wikipedia is a partner in the estate and lives there or nearby.
    Sister, I believe. Lives in “the cider house”

    I noticed a photo of William Hague with the family in the downstairs loo
    Strange place to be photographed with the family.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,953
    YouGov, Germany

    CDU/CSU 29%
    AfD 23%
    SPD 16%
    Greens 14%
    FDP 5%
    Left 5%

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
    Presumably a close relation of Anthea McIntyre, a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, who according to Wikipedia is a partner in the estate and lives there or nearby.
    Sister, I believe. Lives in “the cider house”

    I noticed a photo of William Hague with the family in the downstairs loo
    Strange place to be photographed with the family.
    Droll
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    We need to remember that Susan Hall only has any chance at all because the Conservative Government changed the voting system to FPTP to give themselves that chance.
  • OT.

    Sadly after the discussions yesterday about helicoter safety, a chopper has gone down in the Gulf en route to a rig off UAE. No passengers but two crew missing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    edited September 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    What "rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world" need on "suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington", essentially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/may/31/pampas-grass-secret-symbol-swingers-turn-off-sales-plummeting

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited September 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/3701254/signs-of-swingers-plants-rings-flamingos/
    (definitive guide)

    ETA: Puts a whole new angle on Gnomeo and Juliet when you read the gnomes and flamingos bit

    E2TA: And on wedding rings, there's an awful lot of swinger activity in Eastern Europe if that's true https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/wedding-rings/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,684
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    What "rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world" need on "suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington", essentially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/may/31/pampas-grass-secret-symbol-swingers-turn-off-sales-plummeting

    Dear God, my recently passed mother in law had a huge one outside her bungalow...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,405
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    One for @TimS

    Have you ever heard of these guys? Wythall Estate wine near Ross. Just been to their vineyards and house. Jamie Wythall took me round and explained that the house is 600 years old and has always been occupied by the Wythalls. It’s incredible

    Also their white wine is superb, the rose is excellent and they even make a decent Pinot Noir

    Yay English wine



    Are you sure he is not called Jamie McIntyre?
    He is. I got confused. But he is a direct descendant of the Wythalls. I think he explained this as I was guzzling his Orion Fizz and I was distracted

    It is the real deal tho

    “Wythall is a half-timbered, 16th century, Tudor Manor House. The estate sits in 28 acres of land, comprised of large gardens, vineyards, woodland and outbuildings located in rural Herefordshire. Wythall Estate is privately owned and has been since it was built circa 1520.”

    https://giggster.com/uk/listing/tudor-manor-house-with-large-grounds-and-vineyard
    Presumably a close relation of Anthea McIntyre, a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, who according to Wikipedia is a partner in the estate and lives there or nearby.
    Sister, I believe. Lives in “the cider house”

    I noticed a photo of William Hague with the family in the downstairs loo
    Strange place to be photographed with the family.
    It was a big downstairs loo. It had a bidet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    Some German ex-nobility?

    There are a lot of German ex-nobility.
  • MattW said:

    We need to remember that Susan Hall only has any chance at all because the Conservative Government changed the voting system to FPTP to give themselves that chance.

    I do find it strange when you use that kind of an excuse

    Just collect more votes
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    What "rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world" need on "suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington", essentially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/may/31/pampas-grass-secret-symbol-swingers-turn-off-sales-plummeting

    Dear God, my recently passed mother in law had a huge one outside her bungalow...
    TMI.

    And did she have any flowers growing there too?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    O/T but not a nice thing to do. The difference between reporting one works 15 hours 59 min 59 seconds, and 16 hours ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit
  • Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    Yep Japan.

    The oldest family run business in the world. Hoshi Ryokan. A hotel run by the same family since 718AD

    https://famoushotels.org/news/hoshi-ryokan-the-worlds-oldest-guest-house
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    Is there any pampas grass?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    Some German ex-nobility?

    There are a lot of German ex-nobility.
    Awful lot of wars, invasions and revolutions
    however. These tend to displace families

    That’s why England and Japan have so much old stuff. Both are Islands that have rarely been invaded or conquered and are generally (but not totallty) immune to revolutions

    I appreciate this is not an insight for the ages but it is 31C and I am in the Forest of Dean looking for wild boar
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915

    MattW said:

    We need to remember that Susan Hall only has any chance at all because the Conservative Government changed the voting system to FPTP to give themselves that chance.

    I do find it strange when you use that kind of an excuse

    Just collect more votes
    I don't see any excuse.

    It's just what they did.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    What "rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world" need on "suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington", essentially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/may/31/pampas-grass-secret-symbol-swingers-turn-off-sales-plummeting

    I have no idea about that but our pampas grass is wonderful taken from my late mother's garden and loved by her as well as all our family
  • Carnyx said:

    O/T but not a nice thing to do. The difference between reporting one works 15 hours 59 min 59 seconds, and 16 hours ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit

    This is the problem with the benefits system.

    It changes the system from supporting those who need it, to saying to people who can work that they're "not allowed" to work more than 16 hours "or they'll lose their benefits".

    It also leads to a lot of people working for cash businesses which can put down their working hours as 15 then pay cash in hand the rest of the time and they can then keep their benefits and employer doesn't need to pay Employer NICs.

    Cliff edges should never exist.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Terrible numbers for Khan, any which way. No point dressing it up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    Yep Japan.

    The oldest family run business in the world. Hoshi Ryokan. A hotel run by the same family since 718AD

    https://famoushotels.org/news/hoshi-ryokan-the-worlds-oldest-guest-house
    But that’s a business not a home. Tho I guess if they’ve lived in their own Ryokan that’s definitely the winner

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited September 2023

    MattW said:

    We need to remember that Susan Hall only has any chance at all because the Conservative Government changed the voting system to FPTP to give themselves that chance.

    I do find it strange when you use that kind of an excuse

    Just collect more votes
    The Cons didn't like the previous need to collect the majority of votes?

    image

    Of course, under AV it might turn out that the cafe is indeed the majority choice, because the pubs are all very different, which is the beauty of AV.

    I have concerns about pure PR for parliament, with party lists dominating etc, lack of direct link to representative, but that doesn't applywhen you are electing one named mayor.

    ETA: AV, as suggested for Westminster, not being PR, of course
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215

    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    When I used to visit the walled city in Sana'a, Yemen, many of the houses there were over a thousand years old. And lived in by the same families that built them.

    It is possible some of those houses have now been rased to the ground in the conflict, mind.

    By the by, loving the idea that the Tories lose two points when Corbyn stands. Shy Blue-Marxists?

    I know it's not the biggest tragedy of the Yemen civil war, but it is still tragic that the world doesn't get to see the incredible architecture of the inland cities of Yemen because the country is a no-go area.

    One of my best friends spent a whole year there as a student during an Arabic degree and his photos were epic. (He then went on to be an officer in the British army and served in the Iraq war. Then worked in Saudi for a while. I often wonder what he was really up to in those years. His father had been a spy during the cold war.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If the stupid Tories had a decent candidate they would walk this. London is tired of the tedious, mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little prick that is Sadiq Khan

    That's amusing.

    I thought that London was the mothership that all mediocre, joyless, bureaucratic little pricks from across the country get drawn to.

    Maybe Khan wins as they recognise him as one of their own.
    I am pretty sure there is rather more mediocrity and joylessness outside London than inside. Probably more bureaucracy though, I'll give you that.
    We all know that suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington are THE place to go if you want to meet exceptional, talented, rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world
    Do they still plant pampas grass outside?
    My gran had pampas grass in the front garden :open_mouth:

    I don't think she knew the significance.
    There's a LARGE tuft outside a house on the corner along from me. I sometimes wonder too.
    New one on me - the significance is what, exactly?
    What "rebellious individuals who bring unique joy to the world" need on "suburban new build redbrick Barratt estates outside Warrington", essentially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/may/31/pampas-grass-secret-symbol-swingers-turn-off-sales-plummeting

    Hmm, your information comes from a slightly more highbrow source than mine, but it lacks the breadth of the Sun's analysis, I think :wink:
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    edited September 2023
    Selebian said:

    MattW said:

    We need to remember that Susan Hall only has any chance at all because the Conservative Government changed the voting system to FPTP to give themselves that chance.

    I do find it strange when you use that kind of an excuse

    Just collect more votes
    The Cons didn't like the previous need to collect the majority of votes?

    image

    Of course, under AV it might turn out that the cafe is indeed the majority choice, because the pubs are all very different, which is the beauty of AV.

    I have concerns about pure PR for parliament, with party lists dominating etc, lack of direct link to representative, but that doesn't applywhen you are electing one named mayor.
    The same old straw man about PR.

    Single Transferable Vote! More local representation than FPTP. No party list. No safe seats. Easier to kick out an MP who's not working hard.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    Carnyx said:

    O/T but not a nice thing to do. The difference between reporting one works 15 hours 59 min 59 seconds, and 16 hours ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit

    This is the problem with the benefits system.

    It changes the system from supporting those who need it, to saying to people who can work that they're "not allowed" to work more than 16 hours "or they'll lose their benefits".

    It also leads to a lot of people working for cash businesses which can put down their working hours as 15 then pay cash in hand the rest of the time and they can then keep their benefits and employer doesn't need to pay Employer NICs.

    Cliff edges should never exist.
    The problem here is jobsworths with read only minds

    Instructional video on flipping to learn mode - https://youtu.be/2t_wrtyxFp8?si=YcSqTmTFyS9kQqRu
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Leon said:

    Friday afternoon quiz

    I was questioning the Wythall wine dude and marvelling at the longevity and stasis of his family, living in the same house for five centuries

    He said “that’s nothing, there’s a Scudamore living in a house down the road and they’ve been there since at least 1100. Almost a thousand years”

    That must be close to the world record. For a non-royal family occupying the same house for the longest time. Tho I remember once reading - and my memory might be faulty - about a family, plus house, that claimed to date back before
    1066. Anglo Saxon origins

    Is there an even older lineage anywhere? Japan?

    When I used to visit the walled city in Sana'a, Yemen, many of the houses there were over a thousand years old. And lived in by the same families that built them.

    It is possible some of those houses have now been rased to the ground in the conflict, mind.

    By the by, loving the idea that the Tories lose two points when Corbyn stands. Shy Blue-Marxists?

    bigjohnowls-alikes, before he went over to the Green Side?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    Carnyx said:

    O/T but not a nice thing to do. The difference between reporting one works 15 hours 59 min 59 seconds, and 16 hours ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/08/dwp-stops-womans-benefits-after-she-said-she-worked-one-second-over-limit

    This is the problem with the benefits system.

    It changes the system from supporting those who need it, to saying to people who can work that they're "not allowed" to work more than 16 hours "or they'll lose their benefits".

    It also leads to a lot of people working for cash businesses which can put down their working hours as 15 then pay cash in hand the rest of the time and they can then keep their benefits and employer doesn't need to pay Employer NICs.

    Cliff edges should never exist.
    If someone on 16 hours a week moves to a 40 hour week, we should give them more money. On top of not withdrawing benefit.
This discussion has been closed.