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How Corbyn could give the Mayoralty to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Not a vintage all blacks side, more a table wine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Exactly so. Yet somehow one aristocratic ancestor is held to trump all others. Most of all royalty (allegedly helped along by divine right and organic olive oil).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Good win for France

    NZ won't be too worried. They will be back.

    I think they will be a bit. Also in NZ there will be national inquests. I know - I was there in 1998-99 when the ABs were going through a rough patch.

    Early days, but Frances to lose? Unless SA really are that good…
  • Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    The all blacks have not recently played as clinically as in the past, for sure

    The all blacks and France are probably the only two natiinal teams that do not drop their heads when they are 2-3 try scores behind, with 10.mins to go.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited September 2023
    Bit weird to see the fitting final at the start of a tournament, but pfui, France in the groove.

    Used to be a massive Patrick O’Brien fan and still get a wee jag when I see the name Beauden Barrett, so close to one of my favourite of his characters, Barret Bonden. Assume Patrick would be with Les Bleus.

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Farooq - Here's a typical table for you: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls (According to reports to the FBI, which are not complete, but probably the best single source of data we have on murders.)

    In 2019, almost as many blacks were murdered as whites, though blacks are only about 13 percent of the US population. (As you can see from the table, most of the murderers were of the same race.)

    I care about this because I want to see our governments do better at protecting everyone in the US from beng killed, but especially the most vulnerable (blacks and Native Americans). Regardless of the race of the murderer.

    I would like to think you agree with me on that.

    As for coverage, you can easily research that for yourself. Just search on George Floyd, and then search on a phrase like "black on black murders" and see which gets the most hits.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Bit weird to see the final at the start of a tournament, but PFI. France in the groove.

    Used to be a massive Patrick O’Brien fan and still get a wee jag when I see the name Beauden Barrett, so close to one of my favourite of his characters, Barret Bonden. Assume Patrick would be with Les Bleus.

    That is not the final. No way these are the two best teams in the world

    Springboks took New Zealand to their worst defeat ever two weeks ago. This is (by their standard) a mediocre kiwi side
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    Except perhaps in one way. If the US were to disengage completely from the conflict, as opposed to attempting to dictate Ukraine's action in the war, then I do wonder if the European powers might be in a position to help Ukraine win anyway. Is Russia's conventional military now that much more powerful than a Ukraine supplied by the UK, France, Germany, Sweden and the rest of Europe? And Macron would be very keen to demonstrate strategic autonomy. "Very well, alone".

    That doesn't seem likely. The Ukrainians have had $77bn off the US to go to the end of the street in Robotyne so I doubt the Coalition of Euro Super Friends are going to be able to fill that gap in full.



    It depends on what the US intentions are. If they just don't care and want to stop shovelling dollars into the Ukrainian money furnace then that's one thing. If they actually want the conflict to stop then it wouldn't be very difficult for them to peel off the usual suspects from Team Europe and collapse that effort.
    Who would the 'usual suspects' be? Are you suggesting Robotyne is the only gain Ukraine has made. Forgotten about Kherson and Kharkiv have we?

    I'll say this, you'd be a better Russian propagandist than most of Putin's spokesmen.
  • Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    We humans are all "family". Maybe that's why we fall out so much
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Exactly so. Yet somehow one aristocratic ancestor is held to trump all others. Most of all royalty (allegedly helped along by divine right and organic olive oil).
    Largely because the aristocratic ones are better documented.

    We all have aristocratic and non-aristocratic ancestors. Anyone who was alive in Britain ten centuries ago and has descendents, we're all descended from them. But it's only the aristocratic ones who kept family trees.

    My aristocratic ancestors don't trump my non-aristocratic ones. Far from it: I'd far rather descend from Anglo-Saxons than Normans. Of course like everyone I'm descended from both. But it's the Normans I know about.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Good win for France

    NZ won't be too worried. They will be back.

    I think they will be a bit. Also in NZ there will be national inquests. I know - I was there in 1998-99 when the ABs were going through a rough patch.

    Early days, but Frances to lose? Unless SA really are that good…
    More than “a bit”

    All blacks have just suffered their worst ever defeat in all rugby and now have their worst ever defeat in World Cup rugby. They will be deeply unhappy. And recently they were defeated at home by Ireland in a test series

    But I’m not sure they can do much about it. Apart from some scintillating running they simply don’t look that good. Not any more
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Didn't we want to still be part of Horizon but they said we couldn't?
    It was in the withdrawal agreement, and reiterated in the TCA. The EU witheld final formal association as leverage over NI. The UK was suing the EU at the ECJ over this, claiming it broke the WA.

    Hardcore Remainers' attempts to magic a Rejoin narrative into existence by claiming that Horizon membership is some sort of undoing of Brexit, including on PB, have been strange. It's not clear whether they don't know the above facts, or whether they do and have just spotted an opportunity.
    Yes, so Horizon got suspended because Britain refused to implement the NI protocol. Once we agreed to abide by our agreements, Horizon was back on the table.

    The lesson learned is that our government cannot unilaterally rip up treaties without consequence.
    Which is fine, but is still not the escape from Brexit that I keep seeing it protrayed as then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I believe that genetically speaking your average cornishman is 1/3 cornish, 1/3 other english, 1/3 second home, somehow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    After my rather excessive working last week, in the three days so far this week (nb I had Tuesday off, so my 'week' started Wednesday) I've already done thirty eight hours (twelve on Wednesday, fifteen yesterday and eleven today), And I'm working the next five days

    The hours have been long, and the heat has been pretty heavy. What's been rather heartening about that is just how many drinks I've been offered; there isn't a street where I haven't been offered one, and I got offered five this evening on one quite long road

    Sadly when, after 6pm, I reply "Oh, is it Pimms O'clock?", they all think I'm joking!

    The worst thing this week has been the spiders

    OMFG, I've never seen anything like it. I must have walked through twenty five spiders' webs a day. The ones I've seen I've skilfully taken down with my envelope machete. Most I haven't noticed until I've felt them on my legs, my arms or my face

    Then with my hands full of mail I've tried to brush them off me, and then started searching for the spider. Each day I've found at least ten dangling from me, or on me

    They've all been the same kind of spider, in varying sizes. Hidden for arachnophobes




    Garden Spider (Araneus diadematus)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Mecurial has always seemed an apt description when it comes to the French team.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    We humans are all "family". Maybe that's why we fall out so much
    Spoken like a true optimist.
  • Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    I guess they all are? I don't know much about my ancestry, we're just normal working and lower middle class people as far as I can see, and I know further back in some directions than others, but it's struck me, among the bits I know, how mobile they seem to be. I'm definitely not one of those people with four grandparents from the same village.
  • A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    I always thought it was slightly sad that Tonga and Samoa's best players went off to play for NZ. Though the Pacific Islanders punch well, well above their weight, losing that many players has an impact.
  • Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I've got a lot of Cornish ancestors, Leon and I are probably cousins.
  • kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    We humans are all "family". Maybe that's why we fall out so much
    Spoken like a true optimist.
    Bugger. Rumbled again.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
  • Leon said:

    Bit weird to see the final at the start of a tournament, but PFI. France in the groove.

    Used to be a massive Patrick O’Brien fan and still get a wee jag when I see the name Beauden Barrett, so close to one of my favourite of his characters, Barret Bonden. Assume Patrick would be with Les Bleus.

    That is not the final. No way these are the two best teams in the world

    Springboks took New Zealand to their worst defeat ever two weeks ago. This is (by their standard) a mediocre kiwi side
    I’m pretty sure it won’t be Scotland in the final, and it definitely won’t be England. I am enjoying the plaintive features on BBC Rugby England most mornings asking when normal service will resumed with the low swinging chariots though.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,068
    Why does the US allow Musk the power of veto on Ukraine military operations ?

    Elon Musk says he withheld Starlink over Crimea to avoid escalation
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66752264
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    I guess they all are? I don't know much about my ancestry, we're just normal working and lower middle class people as far as I can see, and I know further back in some directions than others, but it's struck me, among the bits I know, how mobile they seem to be. I'm definitely not one of those people with four grandparents from the same village.
    Me too. My grandparents are from Edinburgh, London, Manchester and Birmingham (strangely city-based). Going back another two generations you can add in Anglesey, the Staffordshire Moorlands, Derbyshire, Cornwall, Sheffield, Perthshire, and the Black Country.

    I find normal people and their stories even more fascinating than the aristocrats. It's just that there are comparatively few stories from normal people have been preserved.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    On a similar note Vodka-Calpol.

    Be sure to choose the infant version as that allows for a few shots without overdosing on paracetamol.

    Double shot of cold vodka
    10 ml of infant calpol

    Goes down a treat.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Actually.
    On reflection.
    Please don't.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Surely agent Corbyn has done enough and is entitled to peaceful retirement for keeping Labour out of power for the best part of a decade?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Actually.
    On reflection.
    Please don't.
    Quite right. You must have been necking some Buckie and Calpol to let the feline out of the sack.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I've got a lot of Cornish ancestors, Leon and I are probably cousins.
    Most of my family have done family trees, but we failed to make it of pubs in SW London for generations. Sadly we finally made it out just as SW London moved from poverty to gentrification and completely missed the boat..
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Farooq said:

    Farooq - Here's a typical table for you: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls (According to reports to the FBI, which are not complete, but probably the best single source of data we have on murders.)

    In 2019, almost as many blacks were murdered as whites, though blacks are only about 13 percent of the US population. (As you can see from the table, most of the murderers were of the same race.)

    I care about this because I want to see our governments do better at protecting everyone in the US from beng killed, but especially the most vulnerable (blacks and Native Americans). Regardless of the race of the murderer.

    I would like to think you agree with me on that.

    As for coverage, you can easily research that for yourself. Just search on George Floyd, and then search on a phrase like "black on black murders" and see which gets the most hits.

    Yebbut the thing about the phrase "black on black murders" is that it's a term freighted with... meaning. If a Black person kills a Black person, it doesn't necessarily get reported with that phrase, does it? People sometimes use that phrase when engaging in particular types of conversations.

    As for George Floyd you must understand, surely, that a story about repressive and violent policing is intrinsically more newsworthy than some commonplace domestic aggro that got out of hand. If you think about the role journalism plays in speaking truth to power, then it's a good thing that racist killer cops and their racist killings get a lot of news coverage. I don't think some random White dude killing some random Black dude is anywhere near as newsworthy as a White cop crushing the neck of a handcuffed Black man for nine minutes, even if the racial aspect is the same.
    Yes, but - wasn't it shown to be bollocks? i.e. the American police are violent and unpleasant to everyone they suspect of criminal activity, and actually proportionally more so to white suspects? And then the report that showed this quickly hushed up hecause it didn't fit the zeitgeist, and its authors quickly cancelled?
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    What, drinking a grapple and swimming in the grand canal, or being held back by your gf? :-))))
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I've got a lot of Cornish ancestors, Leon and I are probably cousins.
    Most of my family have done family trees, but we fail to make it of pubs in SW London. Sadly we finally made it out just as SW London moved from poverty to gentrification and completely missed the boat..
    My paternal side is similar. One small village in Leicestershire, with the odd culinary name of Quorn, as far back as records go. Always yeoman farmers until one of the clan went down to London to become a wine merchant in the 19th century.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited September 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:



    Except perhaps in one way. If the US were to disengage completely from the conflict, as opposed to attempting to dictate Ukraine's action in the war, then I do wonder if the European powers might be in a position to help Ukraine win anyway. Is Russia's conventional military now that much more powerful than a Ukraine supplied by the UK, France, Germany, Sweden and the rest of Europe? And Macron would be very keen to demonstrate strategic autonomy. "Very well, alone".

    That doesn't seem likely. The Ukrainians have had $77bn off the US to go to the end of the street in Robotyne so I doubt the Coalition of Euro Super Friends are going to be able to fill that gap in full.



    It depends on what the US intentions are. If they just don't care and want to stop shovelling dollars into the Ukrainian money furnace then that's one thing. If they actually want the conflict to stop then it wouldn't be very difficult for them to peel off the usual suspects from Team Europe and collapse that effort.
    Or Russia can just stop illegally occupying its neighbours' (plural!) territory!


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I've got a lot of Cornish ancestors, Leon and I are probably cousins.
    Most of my family have done family trees, but we fail to make it of pubs in SW London. Sadly we finally made it out just as SW London moved from poverty to gentrification and completely missed the boat..
    My paternal side is similar. One small village in Leicestershire, with the odd culinary name of Quorn, as far back as records go. Always yeoman farmers until one of the clan went down to London to become a wine merchant in the 19th century.
    Did Quorn the food come from the place?
    Idly wondered that the other day.
    And yes I can Google.
  • TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    26.7 degrees at 10.30 INSIDE my living room with the FAN ON is definitely NOT fantastic!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited September 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
    Average attendance English rugby premier division: 12,800

    Average attendance French equivalent: 14,800

    Almost the same. So yes English rugby can sustain itself as French rugby does. And offer decent salaries. English club rugby overreached, is the problem
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    You're not moaning.
    Others...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
    But why should that be so? Surely there are far more paying spectators in England than in Ireland? The English club game isn't in great health, but it's not clear why it can't be.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited September 2023
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Bit weird to see the final at the start of a tournament, but PFI. France in the groove.

    Used to be a massive Patrick O’Brien fan and still get a wee jag when I see the name Beauden Barrett, so close to one of my favourite of his characters, Barret Bonden. Assume Patrick would be with Les Bleus.

    That is not the final. No way these are the two best teams in the world

    Springboks took New Zealand to their worst defeat ever two weeks ago. This is (by their standard) a mediocre kiwi side
    I’m pretty sure it won’t be Scotland in the final, and it definitely won’t be England. I am enjoying the plaintive features on BBC Rugby England most mornings asking when normal service will resumed with the low swinging chariots though.
    There it is again. The weird and abject inferiority complex


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Did New Zealand deserve to lose that match?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
    But why should that be so? Surely there are far more paying spectators in England than in Ireland? The English club game isn't in great health, but it's not clear why it can't be.
    Quite so. See my stats
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    Shotting extreme amounts of energy drinks is something I highly do not recommend.

    A few years back I had an incredibly stupid night out where I was dared to drink 14 Jagerbombs in half an hour, in a challenge to raise money for charity. Something I duly completed, and was then egged on that each further shot would equal a further £10 per shot for my charity I was raising money for.

    The next day I felt the worst I ever have in my entire life. It wasn't the alcohol, I must have drank over a litre of Jager that night but I've drank comparable amounts of alcohol before. It was the mixer, figured out the next day that must have consumed about 7-8 cans of red bull in that half an hour and looking back, that could have killed me. I was having heart palpitations the whole of the next day and didn't feel right for a couple of days. Perhaps should have gone to a hospital, but didn't.

    A few days later I sheepishly walked in to donate ~£340 from memory I'd raised for my chosen charity. The charity were impressed and said they would like to post about it and thank me online and how did I raise the money - my wife explained and they said that on second thought they would accept the money anonymously but they wouldn't advertise how it was raised.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Andy_JS said:

    Did New Zealand deserve to lose that match?

    I'd say France were the better team, but not by as much as the scoreline suggests.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,068
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    A lot more, though perhaps not nearly all.

    Nice on Jeju at the moment.
    https://www.bbc.com/weather/1846266

    I’m flying back to Seoul on Monday, which is good timing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
    But why should that be so? Surely there are far more paying spectators in England than in Ireland? The English club game isn't in great health, but it's not clear why it can't be.
    Quite so. See my stats
    Do those stats include the three clubs which went bust? Presumably without them the stats are rather healthier?

    Sale continue to attract approximately no one to their home games at the worst-located stadium in the country. It's a mystery how they stay afloat. Sale: come back to rugby union territory, put your ground somewhere accessible for drinkers, and people will come again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
    And you didn't even visit Newent...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    RIP Mike Yarwood.

    Before my time but I understand his political impressions were quite the thing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
    Yeah, the food has improved out of all recognition from even 10 years ago. And there is so much to see. We loved Igtham Mote (thanks for the recommendation), Canterbury, a vineyard, Rye, the Battle of Britain memorial and Dover Castle but my favourite was Chartwell. Just a superb exhibition of a house in spectacular grounds. We could have had another week here and filled it without problems. The density of things to see in the UK is pretty much unmatched and we are getting much better at showing them off.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This sums up my trip. Outside my yurt in the golden valley. A blissful beer



    Then I went to meet my host. Glyn. Who is distilling spiffing gin and roasting award winning coffee. In a tiny farm under the Black Hill



    And in his garden he has a sculpture of a Liberty Cap mushroom. Psilocybin Semilanceata. We drank his gin and swapped stories of mushroom trips



  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    France are pretty impressive tbh. They can play any way you like to take them on.

    Or the All blacks are really not good. Remember they suffered their worst ever defeat just before this (to the boks)

    Kiwi rugby may be running on fumes
    Perhaps. They are losing a lot of their youngsters (particularly Pacific immigrants) to the NRL.
    Money talks.
    Yep. And a lot are going back to the islands to play nationally. Samoa, Fiji, etc

    Or they are enticed to Europe

    We may be witnessing the end of the all blacks remarkable hegemony
    Yeah. They don't really have the infrastructure for a well paid successful pro league at the level below International which naturally feeds and supports the National team. Sadly. It appears, neither do England. Nor Wales.
    France do.
    Ireland having 4 Provinces, which aren't artificial in any way do.
    England absolutely does. They’ve just fucked up the structure, for now

    Remember the French team seriously underperformed for at least a decade until about 3 years ago
    They don't though.
    It's reliant on extremely rich owners losing millions each year until they get fed up and the clubs go bust.
    Average attendance English rugby premier division: 12,800

    Average attendance French equivalent: 14,800

    Almost the same. So yes English rugby can sustain itself as French rugby does. And offer decent salaries. English club rugby overreached, is the problem
    So, better than League 1 football, about 2/3 of Championship attendance.
  • Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq - Here's a typical table for you: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls (According to reports to the FBI, which are not complete, but probably the best single source of data we have on murders.)

    In 2019, almost as many blacks were murdered as whites, though blacks are only about 13 percent of the US population. (As you can see from the table, most of the murderers were of the same race.)

    I care about this because I want to see our governments do better at protecting everyone in the US from beng killed, but especially the most vulnerable (blacks and Native Americans). Regardless of the race of the murderer.

    I would like to think you agree with me on that.

    As for coverage, you can easily research that for yourself. Just search on George Floyd, and then search on a phrase like "black on black murders" and see which gets the most hits.

    Yebbut the thing about the phrase "black on black murders" is that it's a term freighted with... meaning. If a Black person kills a Black person, it doesn't necessarily get reported with that phrase, does it? People sometimes use that phrase when engaging in particular types of conversations.

    As for George Floyd you must understand, surely, that a story about repressive and violent policing is intrinsically more newsworthy than some commonplace domestic aggro that got out of hand. If you think about the role journalism plays in speaking truth to power, then it's a good thing that racist killer cops and their racist killings get a lot of news coverage. I don't think some random White dude killing some random Black dude is anywhere near as newsworthy as a White cop crushing the neck of a handcuffed Black man for nine minutes, even if the racial aspect is the same.
    Yes, but - wasn't it shown to be bollocks? i.e. the American police are violent and unpleasant to everyone they suspect of criminal activity, and actually proportionally more so to white suspects? And then the report that showed this quickly hushed up hecause it didn't fit the zeitgeist, and its authors quickly cancelled?
    I've heard this before, and if you're referring to the same thing then it's a case of Simpson's Paradox:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/11/opinion/statistical-paradox-police-killings/

    In short, police are more likely to kill Black people in the US in the same scenario.
    That's a really good and clear example of where confounding variables matter and how you can draw the wrong conclusions from statistics.

    As well as being a really good and clear demonstration of how American Police are not fit for purpose.
  • RIP Mike Yarwood.

    Before my time but I understand his political impressions were quite the thing.

    Definitely part of my childhood TV viewing. RIP.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
    Yeah, the food has improved out of all recognition from even 10 years ago. And there is so much to see. We loved Igtham Mote (thanks for the recommendation), Canterbury, a vineyard, Rye, the Battle of Britain memorial and Dover Castle but my favourite was Chartwell. Just a superb exhibition of a house in spectacular grounds. We could have had another week here and filled it without problems. The density of things to see in the UK is pretty much unmatched and we are getting much better at showing them off.
    We really are. If I may be excused one more anecdote and photo

    I went to visit a cider brewery in east Herefordshire. Pomona. They were completely passionate about their artisan product and entirely confident of its quality and they knew how to sell it. Pairing it - Perry, perrikin, ciderkin, damson wine - with superb British cheeses I’ve never tried before. Uplifting!





  • Re Topic - you might equally say the Tory might win because the Lib Dems and / or Greens are standing. Unfortunately reverting to a simple first past the post only helps the Tories - which is why they changed the rules
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
    Yeah, the food has improved out of all recognition from even 10 years ago. And there is so much to see. We loved Igtham Mote (thanks for the recommendation), Canterbury, a vineyard, Rye, the Battle of Britain memorial and Dover Castle but my favourite was Chartwell. Just a superb exhibition of a house in spectacular grounds. We could have had another week here and filled it without problems. The density of things to see in the UK is pretty much unmatched and we are getting much better at showing them off.
    We really are. If I may be excused one more anecdote and photo

    I went to visit a cider brewery in east Herefordshire. Pomona. They were completely passionate about their artisan product and entirely confident of its quality and they knew how to sell it. Pairing it - Perry, perrikin, ciderkin, damson wine - with superb British cheeses I’ve never tried before. Uplifting!





    I have spent many happy days in rural Herefordshire thanks to family links.

    England's secret gem frankly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    edited September 2023

    RIP Mike Yarwood.

    Before my time but I understand his political impressions were quite the thing.

    So well known that Dennis Healey copied Yarwoods impression of Healey by using the term "silly Billy", not having used it previously.

    Yarwood was finished off by having a female PM. It ruined the centrepiece of his act.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,783
    edited September 2023

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    Shotting extreme amounts of energy drinks is something I highly do not recommend.

    A few years back I had an incredibly stupid night out where I was dared to drink 14 Jagerbombs in half an hour, in a challenge to raise money for charity. Something I duly completed, and was then egged on that each further shot would equal a further £10 per shot for my charity I was raising money for.

    The next day I felt the worst I ever have in my entire life. It wasn't the alcohol, I must have drank over a litre of Jager that night but I've drank comparable amounts of alcohol before. It was the mixer, figured out the next day that must have consumed about 7-8 cans of red bull in that half an hour and looking back, that could have killed me. I was having heart palpitations the whole of the next day and didn't feel right for a couple of days. Perhaps should have gone to a hospital, but didn't.

    A few days later I sheepishly walked in to donate ~£340 from memory I'd raised for my chosen charity. The charity were impressed and said they would like to post about it and thank me online and how did I raise the money - my wife explained and they said that on second thought they would accept the money anonymously but they wouldn't advertise how it was raised.

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    Shotting extreme amounts of energy drinks is something I highly do not recommend.

    A few years back I had an incredibly stupid night out where I was dared to drink 14 Jagerbombs in half an hour, in a challenge to raise money for charity. Something I duly completed, and was then egged on that each further shot would equal a further £10 per shot for my charity I was raising money for.

    The next day I felt the worst I ever have in my entire life. It wasn't the alcohol, I must have drank over a litre of Jager that night but I've drank comparable amounts of alcohol before. It was the mixer, figured out the next day that must have consumed about 7-8 cans of red bull in that half an hour and looking back, that could have killed me. I was having heart palpitations the whole of the next day and didn't feel right for a couple of days. Perhaps should have gone to a hospital, but didn't.

    A few days later I sheepishly walked in to donate ~£340 from memory I'd raised for my chosen charity. The charity were impressed and said they would like to post about it and thank me online and how did I raise the money - my wife explained and they said that on second thought they would accept the money anonymously but they wouldn't advertise how it was raised.
    I knew a guy who lived off triple-quadruple-whatever coffee's when he was studying for his exams. Spent several years in a cell just painting vaguely bird-shaped things on the walls.

    Oddly enough tonight I have been rewatching some old psychedelic/hippy/trippy era films.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwS4kjGIRP8

  • Chris Williamson
    @DerbyChrisW
    If you want to stop Starmer, join us. The campaign launch takes place tomorrow at Conway Hall in London.

    We don't have to accept the Labour and Tory neoliberal warmongers. We deserve better, and together, we can make it happen.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1700140549318021165
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bit weird to see the final at the start of a tournament, but PFI. France in the groove.

    Used to be a massive Patrick O’Brien fan and still get a wee jag when I see the name Beauden Barrett, so close to one of my favourite of his characters, Barret Bonden. Assume Patrick would be with Les Bleus.

    That is not the final. No way these are the two best teams in the world

    Springboks took New Zealand to their worst defeat ever two weeks ago. This is (by their standard) a mediocre kiwi side
    I’m pretty sure it won’t be Scotland in the final, and it definitely won’t be England. I am enjoying the plaintive features on BBC Rugby England most mornings asking when normal service will resumed with the low swinging chariots though.
    There it is again. The weird and abject inferiority complex


    Once you have another country’s psychodrama piped incessantly through your bedside radio you might have a better overview of the ‘complexity’. Not going to happen though, is it?
  • Matt Zarb-Cousin
    @mattzarb
    ·
    8h
    Corbyn should run for City Hall. Fuck those guys, he owes them nothing
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986


    Chris Williamson
    @DerbyChrisW
    If you want to stop Starmer, join us. The campaign launch takes place tomorrow at Conway Hall in London.

    We don't have to accept the Labour and Tory neoliberal warmongers. We deserve better, and together, we can make it happen.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1700140549318021165

    He manages to encapsulate his lot’s antisemitism and Putinism in two pithy words, “neoliberal” and “warmongers”

    Is there anything more untrue than “together we can make it happen”?

    They should fuck off to America and get a room with fellow travellers Trump and Tucker.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552

    Matt Zarb-Cousin
    @mattzarb
    ·
    8h
    Corbyn should run for City Hall. Fuck those guys, he owes them nothing

    This is why FPTP is so entertaining.
  • ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    Shotting extreme amounts of energy drinks is something I highly do not recommend.

    A few years back I had an incredibly stupid night out where I was dared to drink 14 Jagerbombs in half an hour, in a challenge to raise money for charity. Something I duly completed, and was then egged on that each further shot would equal a further £10 per shot for my charity I was raising money for.

    The next day I felt the worst I ever have in my entire life. It wasn't the alcohol, I must have drank over a litre of Jager that night but I've drank comparable amounts of alcohol before. It was the mixer, figured out the next day that must have consumed about 7-8 cans of red bull in that half an hour and looking back, that could have killed me. I was having heart palpitations the whole of the next day and didn't feel right for a couple of days. Perhaps should have gone to a hospital, but didn't.

    A few days later I sheepishly walked in to donate ~£340 from memory I'd raised for my chosen charity. The charity were impressed and said they would like to post about it and thank me online and how did I raise the money - my wife explained and they said that on second thought they would accept the money anonymously but they wouldn't advertise how it was raised.

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A French try, with panache

    I shandy ni it.
    A few years ago I orded a panache in France because it sounded interesting, and was very disappointed to recieve a shandy...
    Shandy is, though, a drink far better than its unfortunate reputation. As is lager and lime, or indeed port and lemon.
    “Grapple” = double shot of grappa and Red Bull

    I invented it personally on a trip to Venice and after three Grapples I was absolutely determined to swim the Grand Canal at midnight. Only my long suffering girlfriend held me back

    Recommended
    Shotting extreme amounts of energy drinks is something I highly do not recommend.

    A few years back I had an incredibly stupid night out where I was dared to drink 14 Jagerbombs in half an hour, in a challenge to raise money for charity. Something I duly completed, and was then egged on that each further shot would equal a further £10 per shot for my charity I was raising money for.

    The next day I felt the worst I ever have in my entire life. It wasn't the alcohol, I must have drank over a litre of Jager that night but I've drank comparable amounts of alcohol before. It was the mixer, figured out the next day that must have consumed about 7-8 cans of red bull in that half an hour and looking back, that could have killed me. I was having heart palpitations the whole of the next day and didn't feel right for a couple of days. Perhaps should have gone to a hospital, but didn't.

    A few days later I sheepishly walked in to donate ~£340 from memory I'd raised for my chosen charity. The charity were impressed and said they would like to post about it and thank me online and how did I raise the money - my wife explained and they said that on second thought they would accept the money anonymously but they wouldn't advertise how it was raised.
    I knew a guy who lived off triple-quadruple-whatever coffee's when he was studying for his exams. Spent several years in a cell just painting vaguely bird-shaped things on the walls.

    Oddly enough tonight I have been rewatching some old psychedelic/hippy/trippy era films.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwS4kjGIRP8
    I'm fortunate, I've spent years living off strong coffees and its never done me any harm. Others might disagree ~ Ed
  • Peak Guardian:



    Carlton Reid @carltonreid

    I cycled to @StormTea
    to get my coffee beans earlier and took my pet self-flying drone with me. This 1 minute video is the result.

    https://twitter.com/carltonreid/status/1700241965428752741
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited September 2023
    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So far in the oldest-family-in-the-same-place stakes (non royal) we have the Berkeleys of Berkeley Castle, and the Eltzs of Eltz Castle

    Plus maybe some Japanese hoteliers who pre-date both of them by about 500 years

    It’s surprisingly hard to find an Italian family which goes back, in situ, before about 1200

    My family seems to be the kind to up sticks and move somewhere completely different every generation.
    Philosophical question: what is 'my family'? If you go back 10 generations you have 1,024 ancestors (ignoring a bit of in-breeding). Which of those is 'your family'?
    Leon's from Cornwall. He's probably got more fingers on one hand than he has great grandparents.
    I've got a lot of Cornish ancestors, Leon and I are probably cousins.
    Most of my family have done family trees, but we fail to make it of pubs in SW London. Sadly we finally made it out just as SW London moved from poverty to gentrification and completely missed the boat..
    My paternal side is similar. One small village in Leicestershire, with the odd culinary name of Quorn, as far back as records go. Always yeoman farmers until one of the clan went down to London to become a wine merchant in the 19th century.
    Coincidence. We were there today, just after visiting the beer festival on the Great Central Railway. Quorn and Woodhouse station.

    https://www.gcrailway.co.uk/special-events/beer-festival/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    The simple flaw in that plan is that we’d then have to live up north.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    26.7 degrees at 10.30 INSIDE my living room with the FAN ON is definitely NOT fantastic!
    Indeed. It’s absolutely horrible and how anyone can like it is completely beyond me.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    You're not moaning.
    Others...
    I need something to do, given i haven’t had a decent night’s sleep in over a week.
  • TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    26.7 degrees at 10.30 INSIDE my living room with the FAN ON is definitely NOT fantastic!
    Indeed. It’s absolutely horrible and how anyone can like it is completely beyond me.
    Looking forward to Tuesday when it should be around 10 degrees cooler.
  • TimS said:


    Chris Williamson
    @DerbyChrisW
    If you want to stop Starmer, join us. The campaign launch takes place tomorrow at Conway Hall in London.

    We don't have to accept the Labour and Tory neoliberal warmongers. We deserve better, and together, we can make it happen.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1700140549318021165

    He manages to encapsulate his lot’s antisemitism and Putinism in two pithy words, “neoliberal” and “warmongers”

    Is there anything more untrue than “together we can make it happen”?

    They should fuck off to America and get a room with fellow travellers Trump and Tucker.
    Conway Hall has seen a lot of campaign launches. They've not been uniformly successful.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    We've had a week in Ashford which sadly comes to an end tomorrow when we are moving on to Oxford. All week has felt genuinely Mediterranean and walking home from the restaurant tonight was positively balmy.

    In Scotland we have not had a single day like this week all summer. Even periods of bright sunshine have been consistently interrupted with sharp showers. The food has been very good too, mainly Italian although last night I had a paella to die for. Just superb.

    To be honest, if you could be confident of weather like this I am pretty sure nearly all our holidays would be in the UK and would not involve going anywhere near an airport.
    The last 5 days I’ve spent tootling down the Welsh marches have been borderline sublime, to be frank. Great history, great landscapes, great castles, great hikes and drinks and fun. Lots of friendly people. Fascinating stories. Roman ruins and drovers inns. Ruined abbeys and Michelin restaurants. Craft beers in the hills and superb English wine in the valleys

    Britain is magnificent when it wants to be and this week HEREFORD APART has been exceptional. The weather has been pretty helpful. And so has the food. Consistently excellent. Like a French holiday in the 1980s where all the food is surprisingly good
    Yeah, the food has improved out of all recognition from even 10 years ago. And there is so much to see. We loved Igtham Mote (thanks for the recommendation), Canterbury, a vineyard, Rye, the Battle of Britain memorial and Dover Castle but my favourite was Chartwell. Just a superb exhibition of a house in spectacular grounds. We could have had another week here and filled it without problems. The density of things to see in the UK is pretty much unmatched and we are getting much better at showing them off.
    We really are. If I may be excused one more anecdote and photo

    I went to visit a cider brewery in east Herefordshire. Pomona. They were completely passionate about their artisan product and entirely confident of its quality and they knew how to sell it. Pairing it - Perry, perrikin, ciderkin, damson wine - with superb British cheeses I’ve never tried before. Uplifting!





    I have spent many happy days in rural Herefordshire thanks to family links.

    England's secret gem frankly.
    Absolutely. Just a beautiful, wonderful county. And nobody knows about it!
  • TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    No it's not summer until the equinox. Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
  • Also if you wanted to define seasons based on the solstices and equinoxes then they would be in the middle of seasons and not the start and end. Your astronomical seasons would then start and end at the cross-quarter days, which is roughly how the Irish/Celtic seasons are defined.

    That way the winter season is clearly the darkest season.
  • TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Southerners!
    Stop moaning about the weather and move north.
    17°C here and lovely. May get 25°C tomorrow.
    You could sell your house and buy a street too.

    Who’s moaning? 26C at 10.30 is fantastic. I’m writing this from the patio, twinkling fairy lights on, the sound of raucous celebration on the airwaves from the Wickham Arms, glass of English red wine in hand (Maud Heath, Wiltshire), ruing the fact we’re going back to Northern summer style weather next week.
    26.7 degrees at 10.30 INSIDE my living room with the FAN ON is definitely NOT fantastic!
    Bah, that's nothing. When I lived down under we could experience 30s plus and it was perfectly normal and easy to sleep with.

    But the big difference is that it was a dry heat there. The problem here is that our humidity magnifies both how hot and cold feel, a damp cold feels like a more bitter cold, while a damp heat feels like a more sweaty heat. Hence why saunas run much, much hotter than steam rooms - and why adding water onto the coals in a sauna makes you feel hotter even if drops the temperature.

    If you're struggling, an offbeat suggestion is to run a dehumidifier in your room. It won't make your room any cooler, but it will make it much cooler and much, much more comfortable.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Also if you wanted to define seasons based on the solstices and equinoxes then they would be in the middle of seasons and not the start and end. Your astronomical seasons would then start and end at the cross-quarter days, which is roughly how the Irish/Celtic seasons are defined.

    That way the winter season is clearly the darkest season.

    Would be a nonsense, as summer would end in early August - on average the warmest part of the year!
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    My wife and I have a never ending (good natured) spat about the seasons.
    I say March-May is Spring and so on and so forth each three months. She insists Spring starts on 21st March (and so on). I understand one is the metrological convention and the other is the astronomical convention, but I still do say to her that she expects me to classify the 20th December, one of the darkest days of the year, and often very cold, as Autumn still. When it usually clearly isn't.

    My brother decided to upend all conventions. He runs a 4-2-4-2 system. Spring is March and April, Summer May to August, Autumn only September and October and Winter for the rest.
  • TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
    This is a rare situation where the Met Office are completely wrong. It's illogical to use the autumn equinox as the beginning of autumn.
  • TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
    It does actually, its based upon the weather which coincides rather interestingly with the Gregorian Calendar. 1 June is on average warmer than 22 September.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    No it's not summer until the equinox. Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    No it's not summer until the equinox. Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.
    That’s just a Met Office term used so the ‘seasons’ fall neatly into months, it has no basis in science, as I note above.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
  • Also if you wanted to define seasons based on the solstices and equinoxes then they would be in the middle of seasons and not the start and end. Your astronomical seasons would then start and end at the cross-quarter days, which is roughly how the Irish/Celtic seasons are defined.

    That way the winter season is clearly the darkest season.

    Would be a nonsense, as summer would end in early August - on average the warmest part of the year!
    Your supposed system starts summer on MIDsummer's day and you're calling other systems nonsense?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
    It does actually, its based upon the weather which coincides rather interestingly with the Gregorian Calendar. 1 June is on average warmer than 22 September.
    September has many more hot days on record than June. Still, the seasons are set by the cosmos, not the government .

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
  • TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
    This is a rare situation where the Met Office are completely wrong. It's illogical to use the autumn equinox as the beginning of autumn.
    No, its entirely logical.

    The reason is the way the earth traps and loses heat. The winter solstice is just a few days before Christmas so why isn't November a part of winter, and why is February? Because February is much colder than November.

    There's a delayed reaction to the build up and loss of heat, which means that each season roughly starts at what you'd think astronomically should be its midpoint.

    In practice it starts a few weeks before that midpoint rather than starting exactly at the midpoint, which is why meteorological seasons don't align with astronomical ones.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    TimS said:

    It’s insanely warm. 26.2C at the nearest weather station, at 10.30pm on a calm night. In September (Autumn, for the avoidance of doubt).

    I would be saying it’s insanely warm if this were the 20th July.

    It’s summer until the equinox on 22/23 September, although this is hot even for high summer in this country. Absolutely grim. Impossible to sleep. I have tried everything, but it’s like tucking up in a slightly faulty sauna.
    Meteorological summer ended at the end of August.

    Considering the weather follows meteorological seasons and not astronomical ones, its the more relevant definition too.
    That’s just a definition the Met Office uses so their statistics fall neatly into months. It has no basis whatsoever in science.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/autumn/when-does-autumn-start
    This is a rare situation where the Met Office are completely wrong. It's illogical to use the autumn equinox as the beginning of autumn.
    LOL
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