Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
But I am not wandering through chocolate box Britain. I am not far from Telford, Redditch, Brum…
And trust me, rat-hole Italy is fucking horrible. You don’t know what you are talking about. There are entire slum towns in Calabria which make Egypt look tolerable. Infested with Mafiosi, half built due to corruption,3/4 ruined due to earthquakes, deeply poor and ugly, and no amount of sun can save the concrete, squalor, litter and torpor
See also the burbs around Naples, many towns in Puglia, some of the shanty towns around Genoa, the ugly suburban sprawl in the Veneto (bleak as fuck), the worst bits of Sicily, and much else
You haven’t been to any of these places, have you?
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Harold was quite the card. He was immensely clever and a rather witty raconteur. Wilson would pass the, "could they keep me entertained down the pub for an hour" test. Starmer couldn't, but come to think of it, I can't think of many on either side of the house who could. Johnson by the way doesn't count, My rules are pithy bar- leaner and not "boorish tw*t".No, Michael Gove doesn't, he is too earnest, but 30p Lee might.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
Plenty around me. It happens most weeks.
Like littering no one knows anyone who does it, yet it's everywhere.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
But I am not wandering through chocolate box Britain. I am not far from Telford, Redditch, Brum…
And trust me, rat-hole Italy is fucking horrible. You don’t know what you are talking about. There are entire slum towns in Calabria which make Egypt look tolerable. Infested with Mafiosi, half built due to corruption,3/4 ruined due to earthquakes, deeply poor and ugly, and no amount of sun can save the concrete, squalor, litter and torpor
See also the burbs around Naples, many towns in Puglia, some of the shanty towns around Genoa, the ugly suburban sprawl in the Veneto (bleak as fuck), the worst bits of Sicily, and much else
You haven’t been to any of these places, have you?
No. That's why I asked. I'm funny like that.
Well, consider yourself informed. Urban Italy can easily be as ugly and depressing as anywhere in the advanced world
This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in
I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight
Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
I've been to both, on a school trip. And a few times since, in a car, with visiting friends
But I've never walked to them from The Mound where Merlin was buried - 'ubi nunc sapientis ossa Merlini'
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
Nandy is utterly banal and uninspiring. Starmer was right to demote her
Rayner is much more interesting
As a newly paid up Labour voter manque I am excited by our upcoming Cabinet
This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in
I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight
Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
I've been to both, on a school trip. And a few times since, in a car, with visiting friends
But I've never walked to them from The Mound where Merlin was buried - 'ubi nunc sapientis ossa Merlini'
Not been to that one. I'm told I was taken to Silbury Hill back when you could walk on it, but I have no active memory of it.
There was a lot of strange happenings up on and around the Plain back in the day, clearly.
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
He clearly rates her because she’s still in the shadow cab and her role now is at a similar level in the hierarchy. But I suspect they had “artistic differences”. She was always keener on major regional devolution than him.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
Plenty around me. It happens most weeks.
How are you both defining fly tipping?
I mean it does vary from leaving waste next to a full public litter bin, through to dumping a van load of crap in a local beauty spot. I don't condone either, but how often you see it does depend quite a lot on how you define it.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
They didn't write in English though.
Oops, missed that. Bet they could have done though if they'd liked.
(Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**) Stuck in the middle with you
*Corbynite wing **Conservative party
The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****
***who I think is well'ard ****just for the hell of it
Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
As well as having the same favourite night club as her, another reason I’m a fan of Ange is the weird and revealing response she draws from *some* Tories, who seem driven to frothing rage in their bath chairs at the very thought of a vowel-dropping normal person being allowed within a mile radius of the House of Commons (clue’s in the name, eh?).
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
Nandy is utterly banal and uninspiring. Starmer was right to demote her
Rayner is much more interesting
As a newly paid up Labour voter manque I am excited by our upcoming Cabinet
I’ve met a few of them and Nandy was one of the most engaging in conversation, and also one of the least scripted / most human. Lammy is too - both have their views and are not afraid to express them to random members of the public.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
Nandy is utterly banal and uninspiring. Starmer was right to demote her
Competition for his schtick?
I kid, I don't think either are that dull. Workmanlike, sure. Rayner seems to have more personality, at least more than most politicians dare reveal (many are actually nice, funny people for instance, but you'd never know it from media profile).
I feel like with this latest crisis the government has crossed the Rubicon into the kind of territory where there is no way back. I wouldn't bet against a Labour majority.
It is error after error both forced and unforced.
I do not buy into Heatheners "It's 97 on Steroids" view but I think a small majority is in the offing. The Polls are not shifting back to the Tories and the news is continually not good for them,
More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.
A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.
Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.
Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.
When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.
His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.
Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
To be sure, it's the specific talking points in how they are saying sorry which must drag - the done with politics one seems like a weird mitigation, since they definitely weren't done with when they committed their crimes, and it doesn't strike me as adding much to an apology. Might be better to say you have learned your lesson and will engage with politics appropriately in future.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
Plenty around me. It happens most weeks.
How are you both defining fly tipping?
I mean it does vary from leaving waste next to a full public litter bin, through to dumping a van load of crap in a local beauty spot. I don't condone either, but how often you see it does depend quite a lot on how you define it.
I mean country laybys having a van load of building waste, house clearances etc dumped in them. Particularly those within a few miles drive from the city.
Bit late on this, isn't it basically already done for?
Wagner, the Russian mercenary group, is set to be proscribed as a terrorist group by the UK government - meaning it will be illegal to be a member or support the organisation.
(Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**) Stuck in the middle with you
*Corbynite wing **Conservative party
The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****
***who I think is well'ard ****just for the hell of it
Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
She is a star. The only one with real charisma in the Shadow Cabinet.
I think Angela Rayner is great . I would be happier to see her as leader as she would give the Tories both barrels . Starmer needs to stop being so polite .
I mean, she’s popular with some because she’s one of the very few people in Westminster knows how to let her hair down. But it’s a relatively limited group. She’s turn off lots of Middle England, who find a filthy mouthed, partying Manc somewhat challenging.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
As true today as when Priestley wrote about them in English Journey in the 1930s..
"The places I saw had names, but these names were merely so much alliteration: Wolverhampton, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, Willenhall and Walsall. You could call them all wilderness and have done with it.”
Urban and suburban West Midlands where I grew looks very tired. And in East Midlands "Lawrence Country", one can understand why they voted for Brexit.
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
Nandy is utterly banal and uninspiring. Starmer was right to demote her
Rayner is much more interesting
As a newly paid up Labour voter manque I am excited by our upcoming Cabinet
I’ve met a few of them and Nandy was one of the most engaging in conversation, and also one of the least scripted / most human. Lammy is too - both have their views and are not afraid to express them to random members of the public.
Then it’s a shame she never showed it. I only get Woke-vibes and tepid centre-leftism - and all from a fairly privileged background
Rayner’s authentic WWC buzz is a refreshing change; Enough Etonians, give the comp lass single mum a go
Lammy I find weirdly anonymous, and I have no desire to know more. Which is probably my fault
(Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**) Stuck in the middle with you
*Corbynite wing **Conservative party
The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****
***who I think is well'ard ****just for the hell of it
Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
She is a star. The only one with real charisma in the Shadow Cabinet.
I think Angela Rayner is great . I would be happier to see her as leader as she would give the Tories both barrels . Starmer needs to stop being so polite .
I mean, she’s popular with some because she’s one of the very few people in Westminster knows how to let her hair down. But it’s a relatively limited group. She’s turn off lots of Middle England, who find a filthy mouthed, partying Manc somewhat challenging.
I feel like Deputys can't really harm a leader all that much though, can they? If they have specific appeal, great, but if someone is leaning toward Starmer will they be put off by his deputy, who he cannot choose, being a foul mouthed partier?
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
If that's what you think of the A11, don't even try the A13.
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Basildon.
This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in
I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight
Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
I've been to both, on a school trip. And a few times since, in a car, with visiting friends
But I've never walked to them from The Mound where Merlin was buried - 'ubi nunc sapientis ossa Merlini'
Not been to that one. I'm told I was taken to Silbury Hill back when you could walk on it, but I have no active memory of it.
There was a lot of strange happenings up on and around the Plain back in the day, clearly.
I'm not so sure that it was so strange; what is strange is that it has survived there
I reckon that Britain was covered with stone circles. Most got used for building over the ages
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
If that's what you think of the A11, don't even try the A13.
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Bsildon.
I may indeed be thinking of the A13, which is even worse, as you say. A shocker
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
He clearly rates her because she’s still in the shadow cab and her role now is at a similar level in the hierarchy. But I suspect they had “artistic differences”. She was always keener on major regional devolution than him.
International development is not a cabinet position now, as it is part of the FCO.
Incidentally, 30% of the ID budget is spent on housing asylum seekers here. As much of the rest is long term commitment to international bodies there has been massive cuts to smaller projects.
This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in
I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight
Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
Silbury is a place I’m particularly awestruck by.
The last time I was there, it was after some heavy rain. The 'moat' around it had a significant amount of water in it - not enough to turn the hill into an island, but enough to get the effect. It was impressively different like that.
More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.
A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.
Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.
Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.
When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.
His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.
Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
You kicked this off mentioning you were close to a UNESCO world heritage site - on this Italy easily beats the UK, 53 sites in Italy to just 28 in the UK.
This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in
I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight
Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
Silbury is a place I’m particularly awestruck by.
The last time I was there, it was after some heavy rain. The 'moat' around it had a significant amount of water in it - not enough to turn the hill into an island, but enough to get the effect. It was impressively different like that.
On the subject of rain, it is pretty soggy in Greece at present.
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
Nandy is utterly banal and uninspiring. Starmer was right to demote her
Rayner is much more interesting
As a newly paid up Labour voter manque I am excited by our upcoming Cabinet
Is it Rayner’s politics you like about her, or something else?
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
If that's what you think of the A11, don't even try the A13.
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Basildon.
Most bizarre fly tip I have heard of this week. Packaging for an entire picnic abandoned in formation - London Fields. It's almost a Rachel Whiteread art installation.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
I go there all the time. Haven't noticed any fly tipping.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
From the clip, the interviewee sounds spectacularly unreliable.
There have been claims about this for years and that same guy put out a video claiming the same thing a few years ago. The more interesting question is why this is being rehashed now. David Garrow wrote 'Rising Star' back in 2016 and noted the story then. So why is he being interviewed in 2023 about it and the claims getting more attnetion?
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
If that's what you think of the A11, don't even try the A13.
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Basildon.
Most bizarre fly tip I have heard of this week. Packaging for an entire picnic abandoned in formation - London Fields. It's almost a Rachel Whiteread art installation.
How can you even do that? Just dump it all there and walk away?
Name them, shame them, fine them. And if they do it again: jail them
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Some of that might actually be genuine, after all you can be done for careless driving for a momentary glance at a text message leading to a crash, probably at least half of drivers in the UK have done that even if they avoided a crash
From the clip, the interviewee sounds spectacularly unreliable.
There have been claims about this for years and that same guy put out a video claiming the same thing a few years ago. The more interesting question is why this is being rehashed now. David Garrow wrote 'Rising Star' back in 2016 and noted the story then. So why is he being interviewed in 2023 about it and the claims getting more attnetion?
Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.
Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
Why doesn't Starmer like/rate Nandy?
Asked for some serious money for levelling up?
He clearly rates her because she’s still in the shadow cab and her role now is at a similar level in the hierarchy. But I suspect they had “artistic differences”. She was always keener on major regional devolution than him.
International development is not a cabinet position now, as it is part of the FCO.
Incidentally, 30% of the ID budget is spent on housing asylum seekers here. As much of the rest is long term commitment to international bodies there has been massive cuts to smaller projects.
It’s still a cabinet post despite the FCDO merger. Mitchell is listed as a cabinet member and Nandy is shadow cabinet on Labour’s homepage. It just doesn’t have its own department (nor do others, like chief sec to the treasury).
(Jk, Trump wouldn't pardon this one, he blubbered and apologised for what he did).
Twice as long as you normally get for murder in the UK.
Murder is an automatic life sentence in England. There is a minimum amount of time spent in jail before you are eligible for parole but that is not the same thing as a fixed sentence.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Some of that might actually be genuine, after all you can be done for careless driving for a momentary glance at a text message leading to a crash, probably at least half of drivers in the UK have done that even if they avoided a crash
These seditious conspiracy cases though it's obviously nonsense, since they tended to brag about and be proud of their activity, right up until an epiphany at sentencing, which makes it not very useful as mitigation.
"I'm sorry now I'm about to be punished, so please don't punish me".
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Some of that might actually be genuine, after all you can be done for careless driving for a momentary glance at a text message leading to a crash, probably at least half of drivers in the UK have done that even if they avoided a crash
I'd say we've all done it tbh.
The scandalous ones are where Dangerous Driving, or assault using a motor vehicle as a weapon, is plea bargained down to "I will plead guilty for careless", or Manslaughter / Causing Death by Dangerous Driving is bargained down to Death by Careless, and there is an obvious proof of intention and a course of action.
Happens every week.
The definition of Careless and Dangerous driving are a mess - Careless is "below the standard expected of a careful and comnpetent driver". Dangerous is just "far below the standard...".
I'd say they are totally different categories, not a scale. Careless is a lapse of attention. Dangerous is something that cannot be a lapse of attention.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
I have a little list of things I would do to our motoring laws - continuing education for all drivers at photocard renewal is one of them !
“Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”
If so, we win on geology as well
IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE
From memory alone, I think the Arran (the island off the west coast of Scotland) has the most extraordinary spread of geological time outcropping on its surface than anywhere else.
Britain as a whole does have fairly interesting geology (and again, to the extraordinary variety point it’s more the breadth than the depth - there are more interesting fossils, caves, formations etc in loads of other places, but like a sort of geological It’s A Small World After All we have tasters of most of it).
EDIT to add source: a mostly forgotten ‘D’ in A-level geology from 25 years ago.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
Our roads are incredibly safe, but there's nothing wrong with getting any miniscule ignorant minority of drivers or those too impaired to see properly anymore off the road. 👍
Combine it with increasing the speed limit where safe to do so. So many words default to 30 today which really ought to be 40s or more.
A nice balanced proposal that I think, and one we can all agree with hopefully.
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
Our roads are incredibly safe, but there's nothing wrong with getting any miniscule ignorant minority of drivers or those too impaired to see properly anymore off the road. 👍
Combine it with increasing the speed limit where safe to do so. So many words default to 30 today which really ought to be 40s or more.
A nice balanced proposal that I think, and one we can all agree with hopefully.
There are so many country lanes that are 60s and should be 20s
The next group on the Tory hit list are those on sickness or disability benefits . Although Mel Stride assured MPs that those terminally ill won’t be forced to look for work . How lovely of him , he’s all heart !
In a desperate attempt to throw some meat to the baying mob , kicking people of benefits and into destitution should please the Daily Mails readership .
Although there was some disappointment amongst the readership when no 10 ruled out weekly hangings for the alleged benefit scroungers!
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
Our roads are incredibly safe, but there's nothing wrong with getting any miniscule ignorant minority of drivers or those too impaired to see properly anymore off the road. 👍
Combine it with increasing the speed limit where safe to do so. So many words default to 30 today which really ought to be 40s or more.
A nice balanced proposal that I think, and one we can all agree with hopefully.
There are so many country lanes that are 60s and should be 20s
I actually agree with that.
Busy through road through town, currently most are 30 and unless narrow they really should default to 40.
Single lane country lane with hedges either side blocking vision and where oncoming traffic uses same lane as you do - 60 is insane.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Personally I wouldn't give tuppence for Woolf, Lawrence or Dickens. Or Tolkien.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson
Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Personally I wouldn't give tuppence for Woolf, Lawrence or Dickens. Or Tolkien.
(Jk, Trump wouldn't pardon this one, he blubbered and apologised for what he did).
Twice as long as you normally get for murder in the UK.
Pre meditated murderers of a child, a police officer, those who commit acts of terrorism leading to mass loss of life and serial killers now face whole life terms as standard in the UK however
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Although the relative population weight of England is much greater than it was when most of these people were writing.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Best absorbed as an audio book . . . read by Rodney Dangerfield . . . in an "Irish" accent . . .
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Although the relative population weight of England is much greater than it was when most of these people were writing.
That's a great chart, albeit it probably should be log scale.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Although the relative population weight of England is much greater than it was when most of these people were writing.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Although the relative population weight of England is much greater than it was when most of these people were writing.
The same data explains the Scots' alleged overperfomance in industry and innovation in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson
Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Personally I wouldn't give tuppence for Woolf, Lawrence or Dickens. Or Tolkien.
(Jk, Trump wouldn't pardon this one, he blubbered and apologised for what he did).
During the trial, prosecutors portrayed the Proud Boys as having served as “Donald Trump’s army” on Jan. 6. Racked with despair over Mr. Trump’s defeat to Mr. Biden, the prosecutors said, the group was “thirsting for violence and organizing for action” and ultimately fought at the Capitol “to keep their preferred leader in power no matter what the law or the courts had to say about it.”
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
"We"?
You, maybe.
I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
Fair enough.
I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?
Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.
Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
Portrait of the Artist is superb.
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
They did but, with all due respect, they do not match
Chaucer Spenser Milton Donne Locke Wordsworth Shelley Byron Coleridge Jane Austen Charlotte Brontë Emily Brontë Dickens Tennyson Hopkins Keats Hardy Woolf Lawrence Orwell Larkin Tolkien Blake Lewis Carroll Wodehouse Pinter Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
More - much more - than a footnote, especially given the respective sizes of the populations.
Although the relative population weight of England is much greater than it was when most of these people were writing.
Wow, that is bonkers. Never knew that.
Scotland's population constituted 12% of the UK's in 1901. Now down to around 8%.
Living, as I do, in a nation in which the journalists routinely get the color coding wrong for our parties and politicians, I was interested to see that some of the Labour leaders in that photograph got it right.
It is easier for the men, who can just wear a red tie, but what about the women in the picture?
Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?
I suspect that might be true
I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire
I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth
I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better
I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it
I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like
I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space
Italy.
Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.
Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy
They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history
So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.
Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world
So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island
I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really. I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
It varies massively
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
Most of the Midlands is fairly clean. It's probably a London and south-east England problem.
Been to Birmingham recently?
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
The A11 is one long fly-tip from beginning to end. It is gross
If that's what you think of the A11, don't even try the A13.
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Basildon.
Most bizarre fly tip I have heard of this week. Packaging for an entire picnic abandoned in formation - London Fields. It's almost a Rachel Whiteread art installation.
How can you even do that? Just dump it all there and walk away?
Name them, shame them, fine them. And if they do it again: jail them
We don’t agree on much but totally with you on this . I absolutely loathe people who do this . How dare they just fxck off and leave their rubbish lying all over the place .
I see they're about to sentence another of the Proud Boy Trumpists, Enrique Tarrario. It's fascinating how when they are up for sentencing they suddenly discover they are no longer interested in politics. I get their defence lawyers will have them say specific things to try to mitigate the sentence, but when the same judges hear it over and over it must get pretty boring. Guidelines say you can get up to 30 years for these things, but those are not binding and the most so far I think has been around 18.
To be fair, most criminals suddenly find remorse and say sorry to the victim when it is time for sentencing
Lawyers' pleas in mitigation for crims - I read a fair number of extracts from mitigation statements for criminal drivers as reported in local media - are one of the great comedy performances of our country, filled with 'moments of madness', 'momentary inattention' and 'of good character'.
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
Can't imagine the victims appreciate the comedic impact too much...
Dark humour is somewhat necessary.
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
I think everyone should have to retake a driving test every ten years at least, probably shorter once you get to an age when eyesight deterioration is increasingly common.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
Our roads are incredibly safe, but there's nothing wrong with getting any miniscule ignorant minority of drivers or those too impaired to see properly anymore off the road. 👍
Combine it with increasing the speed limit where safe to do so. So many words default to 30 today which really ought to be 40s or more.
A nice balanced proposal that I think, and one we can all agree with hopefully.
There are so many country lanes that are 60s and should be 20s
I actually agree with that.
Busy through road through town, currently most are 30 and unless narrow they really should default to 40.
Single lane country lane with hedges either side blocking vision and where oncoming traffic uses same lane as you do - 60 is insane.
Not sure putting the speed limit up where there are more pedestrians, traffic and junctions is particularly smart.
Our safe roads are something to celebrated, not sacrificed on the altar of impatience.
Bit late on this, isn't it basically already done for?
Wagner, the Russian mercenary group, is set to be proscribed as a terrorist group by the UK government - meaning it will be illegal to be a member or support the organisation.
From the clip, the interviewee sounds spectacularly unreliable.
I must admit, I'm not sure why Carlson is doing this: it's exactly the kind of thing that makes advertisers say "I don't want my product being showing next to that".
Comments
I’ve noticed how clean Shropshire is
But south Essex is really BAD. London is fairly bad
If we are determined to have Europe’s largest population on this RELATIVELY small island (compared to other major European nations by size) we have to up our game in maintaining the public realm
tw*t".No, Michael Gove doesn't, he is too earnest, but 30p Lee might.
😀😀😀
Calabria is especially grim
But I've never walked to them from The Mound where Merlin was buried - 'ubi nunc sapientis ossa Merlini'
And Leon is wrong about South Essex. It isn't bad, it's much, much worse than that.
Rayner is much more interesting
As a newly paid up Labour voter manque I am excited by our upcoming Cabinet
There was a lot of strange happenings up on and around the Plain back in the day, clearly.
I mean it does vary from leaving waste next to a full public litter bin, through to dumping a van load of crap in a local beauty spot. I don't condone either, but how often you see it does depend quite a lot on how you define it.
Time for bed.
Nite all.
I kid, I don't think either are that dull. Workmanlike, sure. Rayner seems to have more personality, at least more than most politicians dare reveal (many are actually nice, funny people for instance, but you'd never know it from media profile).
The Doctors Plot terrorism attacks (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-bomb-profile-idUKL0336389420070703) showed a fairly profound lack of knowledge of basic chemistry by the doctors involved.
Wagner, the Russian mercenary group, is set to be proscribed as a terrorist group by the UK government - meaning it will be illegal to be a member or support the organisation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66724396
"The places I saw had names, but these names were merely so much alliteration: Wolverhampton, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, Willenhall and Walsall. You could call them all wilderness and have done with it.”
Urban and suburban West Midlands where I grew looks very tired. And in East Midlands "Lawrence Country", one can understand why they voted for Brexit.
Rayner’s authentic WWC buzz is a refreshing change; Enough Etonians, give the comp lass single mum a go
Lammy I find weirdly anonymous, and I have no desire to know more. Which is probably my fault
The local hoods used to contract with the local authorities to take away lorry loads of garbage but there was no check on what they were doing with it. They'd just drive a few miles down towards Tilbury and drop it by the roadside. It was an epidemic.
Not sure it happens now but it's still a tip, from Barking to Basildon.
I reckon that Britain was covered with stone circles. Most got used for building over the ages
So many other good Irish writers: Burke, Goldsmith, Wilde, Yeats, William Trevor, John McGahern, Heaney, Brian Friel, Flann O'Brien, Swift, Beckett, Banville, Jennifer Johnston, Molly Keane, Shaw, Bowen, McDonagh, Hugh Leonard, Synge, O'Casey, Sheridan etc.,.
The Irish took the language of their invaders and turned it into something magical and wild and enchanting.
Incidentally, 30% of the ID budget is spent on housing asylum seekers here. As much of the rest is long term commitment to international bodies there has been massive cuts to smaller projects.
https://www.devex.com/news/uk-aid-budget-totally-transformed-as-another-1-5b-cut-looms-105249
https://www.gloucestershire.police.uk/news/gloucestershire/news/gloucestershire-boy-sentenced-for-terrorism-offences/.
Of course by the end of the Thatcher and Major years there were more pupils in grammar schools than there had been in 1979
As are the sentencing comments made by certain Judges.
BBC News - Greece: Skiathos and Volos hit by flash floods
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66721381
Chaucer
Spenser
Milton
Donne
Locke
Wordsworth
Shelley
Byron
Coleridge
Jane Austen
Charlotte Brontë
Emily Brontë
Dickens
Tennyson
Hopkins
Keats
Hardy
Woolf
Lawrence
Orwell
Larkin
Tolkien
Blake
Lewis Carroll
Wodehouse
Pinter
Shakespeare
Not in a trillion years. There is no comparison. The Irish contribution to English literature is a vivid and colourful footnote. But a footnote
Try my Twitter thread on people able to read a number plate as little as 5m away who kill pedestrians with their cars - I was looking into whether we need to go for "optician test" rather than "self-declaration to the DVLA" for eyesight for elderly drivers. IMO to lie to keep the license is too tempting at present.
(There's currently a consultation out on what changes are needed in regulation of medical driving licenses.)
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1698280649939992593
That sentence could keep Tarrio behind bars thru next 5 Presidential elections
https://nitter.net/MacFarlaneNews/status/1699177993988440391#m
Or just the next 1, depending on outcome.
(Jk, Trump wouldn't pardon this one, he blubbered and apologised for what he did).
Name them, shame them, fine them. And if they do it again: jail them
"I'm sorry now I'm about to be punished, so please don't punish me".
The scandalous ones are where Dangerous Driving, or assault using a motor vehicle as a weapon, is plea bargained down to "I will plead guilty for careless", or Manslaughter / Causing Death by Dangerous Driving is bargained down to Death by Careless, and there is an obvious proof of intention and a course of action.
Happens every week.
The definition of Careless and Dangerous driving are a mess - Careless is "below the standard expected of a careful and comnpetent driver". Dangerous is just "far below the standard...".
I'd say they are totally different categories, not a scale. Careless is a lapse of attention. Dangerous is something that cannot be a lapse of attention.
Would I pass a driving test today? I'm not 100% sure I would on the first go.
Off to Con Home with you!
Combine it with increasing the speed limit where safe to do so. So many words default to 30 today which really ought to be 40s or more.
A nice balanced proposal that I think, and one we can all agree with hopefully.
In a desperate attempt to throw some meat to the baying mob , kicking people of benefits and into destitution should please the Daily Mails readership .
Although there was some disappointment amongst the readership when no 10 ruled out weekly hangings for the alleged benefit scroungers!
Busy through road through town, currently most are 30 and unless narrow they really should default to 40.
Single lane country lane with hedges either side blocking vision and where oncoming traffic uses same lane as you do - 60 is insane.
Personally I wouldn't give tuppence for Woolf, Lawrence or Dickens. Or Tolkien.
And you've missed Thackeray.
But that's a whole other debate.
Night x
NY Times
"In Sweden, 48% of households consist of a single adult living alone." [The figures are 20% in the UK, and around 30% in the USA].
https://louiseperry.substack.com/p/we-will-all-become-boring
It is easier for the men, who can just wear a red tie, but what about the women in the picture?
@mikeysmith
So rare for the official photographer to capture the exact moment a Prime Minister realises exactly how monumentally screwed he is…
…and that none of the people he’s assembled around him can help.
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1699062053112361419
(This Alvin being a hoon, in David Brin's Uplift Universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_Universe
And he was, to be fair, comparing Twain to hoonish authors.)
Finland is Nordic, but not Scandinavian.
Our safe roads are something to celebrated, not sacrificed on the altar of impatience.
Associated fun fact: Norway and Finland both border Russia, but Sweden, sandwiched between, does not.
https://wincollsoc.org/news/kingsgate-park-updates/54/54-February-