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Why I’m reluctant to bet on a LAB majority – pt1 – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Classic children TV show, Children of the stones, was filmed in Avebury.

    Terrific show.
    Indeed.
    First show I was genuinely scared by.
  • More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.

    A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.

    Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.

    Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.

    When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.

    His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.

    Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/05/school-student-white-nationalists-bomb-instructions-court/
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I like that they actually renamed the gorge after the first iron bridge, such a big deal it was.
    And quite right too. Ironbridge and Coalbrookdale are remarkable places. You can genuinely sense that the world fundamentally *changed here*

    That is true of vanishingly few places on earth

    The Tas Tepeler - the Neolithic Revolution
    Jerusalem - monotheism
    Athens - the first Democracy (however flawed)
    Florence - the Renaissance
    Ironbridge - the Industrial Revolution

    Perhaps also Silicon Valley?


    Chatsworth, in Los Angeles's San Fernando Valley is the birthplace of the modern porn industry
    You mean I screwed up by moving to Derbyshire?!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Classic children TV show, Children of the stones, was filmed in Avebury.

    Terrific show.
    Indeed.
    First show I was genuinely scared by.
    Yes, so was I. Iain Cuthbertson was wonderfully sinister and as the story evolved more and more of the village ended up,under the ‘happy day’ influence. The Bare bones DVD release didn’t do it justice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Rather proves the point, however. All those countries in the top 10-15 are much bigger than the UK

    And that’s despite the UK being weirdly bad, or diffident, at getting places UNESCO listed

    Eg why the F aren’t Oxford and Cambridge both listed, separately? They are globally unique, overwhelmingly important. When you look at 98% of the sites that ARE listed it is ridiculous these two are not

    I can only presume there is resistance in both cities because a UNESCO listing can hinder development and turn towns/sites into fossilised museums

    There are dozens of other UK sites that should be contenders. Eg the Happisburgh footprints. The oldest human footprints outside Africa. They’re in Norfolk. How many Britons even know about them?

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/07/oldest-human-footprints-happisburgh-norfolk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Friends of mine have done the entire Ridgeway and rave about it. And they are experienced travellers

    https://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/en_GB/trails/the-ridgeway/route/

    if you have two weeks you can step off the path to endless fascinating towns and villages and ancient sites en route. Also lots of great pubs with good food
    Doing the whole Ridgeway would be cool (ditto the Wansdyke ) but I don't want to go "away" for two weeks so close to home

    Part of the reason I want to stay at home is so I can do the odd shift at work and pay for my "holiday" as I go

    I can also get the bus home from places like Avebury, rather than paying for a room

    And at Stonehenge, my best mate lives about four miles away. I can stay a couple of nights at his place and have a day walking there, a day exploring locally, and a day walking back by a different route
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Rather proves the point, however. All those countries in the top 10-15 are much bigger than the UK

    And that’s despite the UK being weirdly bad, or diffident, at getting places UNESCO listed

    Eg why the F aren’t Oxford and Cambridge both listed, separately? They are globally unique, overwhelmingly important. When you look at 98% of the sites that ARE listed it is ridiculous these two are not

    I can only presume there is resistance in both cities because a UNESCO listing can hinder development and turn towns/sites into fossilised museums

    There are dozens of other UK sites that should be contenders. Eg the Happisburgh footprints. The oldest human footprints outside Africa. They’re in Norfolk. How many Britons even know about them?

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/07/oldest-human-footprints-happisburgh-norfolk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    ... except Italy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Classic children TV show, Children of the stones, was filmed in Avebury.

    Terrific show.
    Indeed.
    First show I was genuinely scared by.
    Yes, so was I. Iain Cuthbertson was wonderfully sinister and as the story evolved more and more of the village ended up,under the ‘happy day’ influence. The Bare bones DVD release didn’t do it justice.
    Theme music was summat else for a kid's show!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I like that they actually renamed the gorge after the first iron bridge, such a big deal it was.
    You'll be telling us next that they renamed a gorge after the cheese.
    Of course! Very deserved too.
    Speaking of Cheddar, I tasted a Welsh expression of Cheddar today, called 'Rockstar' - should be banned it's so good.
    The Welsh also make Black Bomber, which is my favorite, but I'll look out for Rockstar.

    Can't beat top quality cheddar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Rather proves the point, however. All those countries in the top 10-15 are much bigger than the UK

    And that’s despite the UK being weirdly bad, or diffident, at getting places UNESCO listed

    Eg why the F aren’t Oxford and Cambridge both listed, separately? They are globally unique, overwhelmingly important. When you look at 98% of the sites that ARE listed it is ridiculous these two are not

    I can only presume there is resistance in both cities because a UNESCO listing can hinder development and turn towns/sites into fossilised museums

    There are dozens of other UK sites that should be contenders. Eg the Happisburgh footprints. The oldest human footprints outside Africa. They’re in Norfolk. How many Britons even know about them?

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/07/oldest-human-footprints-happisburgh-norfolk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    ... except Italy.
    Italy is 300,000 sq km, UK 248,000 sq km

    So Italy is not much bigger, agreed. But it is notably bigger
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Friends of mine have done the entire Ridgeway and rave about it. And they are experienced travellers

    https://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/en_GB/trails/the-ridgeway/route/

    if you have two weeks you can step off the path to endless fascinating towns and villages and ancient sites en route. Also lots of great pubs with good food
    Doing the whole Ridgeway would be cool (ditto the Wansdyke ) but I don't want to go "away" for two weeks so close to home

    Part of the reason I want to stay at home is so I can do the odd shift at work and pay for my "holiday" as I go

    I can also get the bus home from places like Avebury, rather than paying for a room

    And at Stonehenge, my best mate lives about four miles away. I can stay a couple of nights at his place and have a day walking there, a day exploring locally, and a day walking back by a different route
    I used to work on the Ridgeway... Mill Hill :lol:
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I like that they actually renamed the gorge after the first iron bridge, such a big deal it was.
    You'll be telling us next that they renamed a gorge after the cheese.
    Of course! Very deserved too.
    Speaking of Cheddar, I tasted a Welsh expression of Cheddar today, called 'Rockstar' - should be banned it's so good.
    The Welsh also make Black Bomber, which is my favorite, but I'll look out for Rockstar.

    Can't beat top quality cheddar.
    Same company makes it. It's more intense than Black Bomber. Both are good.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    Most surprising decision in the reshuffle was Lisa Nandy losing levelling up to Angela Rayner, and getting international development. I assume she was getting troublesome and not following the party line: she was certainly enthusiastic about the brief. A shame, that one.

    I’m glad Johnny Reynolds and David Lammy both remained in their jobs. And Bridget Phillipson too, but Ydoethur will be along shortly to tell us why she’s a disaster.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Foxy said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    Let's go to work.
    Starmer and Rayner are looking to the right - coincidence?
  • Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    “You”*** (Lib Dems)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
    Like labelling a political cartoon.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I've decided on a staycation for my next holiday - two weeks at the end of this month, beginning of next

    I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hook Of Holland ferry and having a walk around the Netherlands, but have changed my mind

    I can walk to Avebury or Amesbury in a day, mostly on footpaths, and I've never done either
    Classic children TV show, Children of the stones, was filmed in Avebury.

    Terrific show.
    Both senses.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
  • Looking like a seriously good cabinet SKS
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Someone once told me that Germany has so many UNESCO World Heritage Sites is that they get off their arses and apply for it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    I’m with a @Cyclefree on this, I think Italy edges it because of the multitude of overlapping cultures and histories, invaders and settlers in such a small country.

    However, others disagree:

    “...it occurred to me, not for the first time, what a remarkably small world Britain is. That is its glory, you see--that it manages at once to be intimate and small scale, and at the same time packed to bursting with incident and interest. I am constantly filled with admiration at this--at the way you can wander through a town like Oxford and in the space of a few hundred yards pass the home of Christopher Wren,... or how you can stand on Snow's Hill at Windsor and see, in a single sweep, Windsor Castle, the playing fields of Eton, the churchyard where Gray wrote his "Elegy," the site where The Merry Wives of Windsor was performed. Can there anywhere on earth be, in such a modest span, a landscape more packed with centuries of busy, productive attainment?”

    Bill Bryson, Notes from a small island.
  • The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    I thought Keir Starmer was taller than that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    Let's go to work.
    Starmer and Rayner are looking to the right - coincidence?
    To the left of the viewer.
  • This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in

    I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    Let's go to work.
    Starmer and Rayner are looking to the right - coincidence?
    To the left of the viewer.
    To fool us.
  • Foxy said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    Let's go to work.
    Not a bad slogan for next year.

    All in all, it's a clever image. In part because it's hard to imagine the current Cabinet managing a group shot like this without at least one back-stabbing incident.

    (Plus the whole how-do-you-hide-Rishi's-stature? thing)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    eristdoof said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Someone once told me that Germany has so many UNESCO World Heritage Sites is that they get off their arses and apply for it.
    Yes, that is what it is

    The Brits are ridiculously lazy on this. And it’s a damn shame, because I know, as a pro, that UNESCO listing really helps tourism

    Here are some utterly shit German UNESCO sites that they managed to get listed

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1239/

    “Berlin Modernism Housing Estates” - what really??

    Then why not list an English garden city, which influenced architecture and urbanism around the world??

    A fucking factory. One factory

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1368/

    And what in the name of Holy Fuckery is this doing on the list? What even is it?

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1614/

    And look, a park with some nice buildings

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1127/
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
    I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****

    ***who I think is well'ard
    ****just for the hell of it
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Now you're changing the rules. It was historical events / places within walking / short driving distances. Now you're adding influence.

    And who influenced the world - Europe - most? The Greeks and Romans have a strong claim to that. They made Europe. The Renaissance and the Baroque gave it its culture. Britain helped make the modern world, and taught its public servants how to emulate the Roman Empire. Italy taught the world how to enjoy life - la dolce vita - and the English how to make the gardens in which to enjoy life.

    There! Sorted!

    I - lucky old me - have the best of both. And, let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    rcs1000 said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
    I think the only Transgender MP is Jamie Wallis, who is Conservative.

    Of course, there may be others unknown to the public.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited September 2023
    Dude, whinging about people criticising you just makes it worse, just admit you couldn't say no to bags full of cash if you aren't going to be silent about it. Laughably claiming you went to Saudia Arabia for, what, the football, is just pathetic.

    England midfielder Jordan Henderson says he was "really hurt" after being criticised for joining Al-Ettifaq.

    Henderson, who moved to the Saudi club from Liverpool in July, has been a vocal ally of the LGBTQ+ community. His move has been criticised by some LGBTQ+ campaigners, as same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Saudi Arabia.

    "My intention was never, ever to hurt anyone. My intention has always been to help causes and communities," Henderson told the Athletic. "I do care about different causes that I've been involved in, and different communities… I do care. And for people to criticise and say that I'd turned my back on them really, really hurt me.

    "All I can say is that I apologise, I'm sorry that I've made them feel that way. But I haven't changed as a person."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66714875

    This bit is pretty hilarious though. Yeah, sure, Jordan, you had no idea it might happen because you know nothing about the religion, it's not as though anyone might have mentioned something about the laws in that area.

    When his switch to Al-Ettifaq was announced, the club released a welcome video on social media with a montage of Henderson's career, but it appeared that his rainbow armband had been greyed out.

    "I didn't know anything about it until it was out," Henderson said. "It's hard for me to know and understand everything because it is part of the religion.
  • In a rare moment of honesty, Putin's stooges inside the left explain exactly what they are trying to achieve...a Tory victory. 👇🏽



    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1699138822364078174
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
    "We"?

    You, maybe.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Now you're changing the rules. It was historical events / places within walking / short driving distances. Now you're adding influence.

    And who influenced the world - Europe - most? The Greeks and Romans have a strong claim to that. They made Europe. The Renaissance and the Baroque gave it its culture. Britain helped make the modern world, and taught its public servants how to emulate the Roman Empire. Italy taught the world how to enjoy life - la dolce vita - and the English how to make the gardens in which to enjoy life.

    There! Sorted!

    I - lucky old me - have the best of both. And, let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    If you are going for influence then Israel and Palestine, surely?
  • In a rare moment of honesty, Putin's stooges inside the left explain exactly what they are trying to achieve...a Tory victory. 👇🏽



    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1699138822364078174

    Is that you, BJO?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited September 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
    "We"?

    You, maybe.
    I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Leon said:

    eristdoof said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    I'm not sure. I'd have thought places like Italy or Israel/Palestine might give us a run for our money in terms of historical and cultural sites in a relatively compact space.
    Yeah, Italy sprang to mind for me.

    Germany is bursting with lovely stuff as well.
    UNESCO World Heritage Sites by country:

    image

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site
    Someone once told me that Germany has so many UNESCO World Heritage Sites is that they get off their arses and apply for it.
    Yes, that is what it is

    The Brits are ridiculously lazy on this. And it’s a damn shame, because I know, as a pro, that UNESCO listing really helps tourism

    Here are some utterly shit German UNESCO sites that they managed to get listed

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1239/

    “Berlin Modernism Housing Estates” - what really??

    Then why not list an English garden city, which influenced architecture and urbanism around the world??

    A fucking factory. One factory

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1368/

    And what in the name of Holy Fuckery is this doing on the list? What even is it?

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1614/

    And look, a park with some nice buildings

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1127/
    I agree, although... the factory's quite nice, definite Bauhaus vibes there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
    I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****

    ***who I think is well'ard
    ****just for the hell of it
    Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
    She is a star. The only one with real charisma in the Shadow Cabinet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Now you're changing the rules. It was historical events / places within walking / short driving distances. Now you're adding influence.

    And who influenced the world - Europe - most? The Greeks and Romans have a strong claim to that. They made Europe. The Renaissance and the Baroque gave it its culture. Britain helped make the modern world, and taught its public servants how to emulate the Roman Empire. Italy taught the world how to enjoy life - la dolce vita - and the English how to make the gardens in which to enjoy life.

    There! Sorted!

    I - lucky old me - have the best of both. And, let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    No, I mean you can go see the places which inspired these people, or shaped them


    I was led down this rabbit hole by my discovery over dinner that Darwin was born in Shrewsbury - 3 miles from where I type this - and that he was inspired by a weird stone in Shrewsbury, the Bellstone, which moulded his thinking on planetary history, and led him ultimately to the Theory of Evolution


    https://originalshrewsbury.co.uk/blog/the-history-of-shrewsburys-bellstone

    Galileo? PFF!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    rcs1000 said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
    If Michael Madsen was born a woman, I will have to re-evaluate my view of the world.

    :):)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
    I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****

    ***who I think is well'ard
    ****just for the hell of it
    Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
    She is quite a beauty in that photo and together with the lady in the orange suit - Thangam Debonaire, I think - the most elegant.

    Rachel Reeves needs to find a jacket, indeed a trouser suit that fits. The one she wears there does her no favours. Starmer looks quite short.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Incidentally, can this be true?


    “Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”


    If so, we win on geology as well


    IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
    I think the only Transgender MP is Jamie Wallis, who is Conservative.

    Of course, there may be others unknown to the public.
    He's not really, though, is he? He's a man who dresses up as a woman for his own private purposes. He's not, I don't think, going the whole chop-your-cock-off hog? He's claiming he wants to be trans because he thought it would get him some sympathy/attention.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    kle4 said:

    Dude, whinging about people criticising you just makes it worse, just admit you couldn't say no to bags full of cash if you aren't going to be silent about it. Laughably claiming you went to Saudia Arabia for, what, the football, is just pathetic.

    England midfielder Jordan Henderson says he was "really hurt" after being criticised for joining Al-Ettifaq.

    Henderson, who moved to the Saudi club from Liverpool in July, has been a vocal ally of the LGBTQ+ community. His move has been criticised by some LGBTQ+ campaigners, as same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Saudi Arabia.

    "My intention was never, ever to hurt anyone. My intention has always been to help causes and communities," Henderson told the Athletic. "I do care about different causes that I've been involved in, and different communities… I do care. And for people to criticise and say that I'd turned my back on them really, really hurt me.

    "All I can say is that I apologise, I'm sorry that I've made them feel that way. But I haven't changed as a person."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66714875

    This bit is pretty hilarious though. Yeah, sure, Jordan, you had no idea it might happen because you know nothing about the religion, it's not as though anyone might have mentioned something about the laws in that area.

    When his switch to Al-Ettifaq was announced, the club released a welcome video on social media with a montage of Henderson's career, but it appeared that his rainbow armband had been greyed out.

    "I didn't know anything about it until it was out," Henderson said. "It's hard for me to know and understand everything because it is part of the religion.

    Yes, all comes across as a bit disingenuous from Jordan. Wanting the cash but wanting to be liked too.

    He should take a leaf out of our very own ageing star Leon, who turned the Saudi millions down in the end, for reasons of conscience.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, can this be true?


    “Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”


    If so, we win on geology as well


    IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE

    Where's Richard_Tyndall when you need him?
  • Taz said:

    I feel like with this latest crisis the government has crossed the Rubicon into the kind of territory where there is no way back. I wouldn't bet against a Labour majority.

    It is error after error both forced and unforced.

    I do not buy into Heatheners "It's 97 on Steroids" view but I think a small majority is in the offing. The Polls are not shifting back to the Tories and the news is continually not good for them,
    Noone in their right mind should

    More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.

    A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.

    Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.

    Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.

    When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.

    His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.

    Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/05/school-student-white-nationalists-bomb-instructions-court/

    You think it unlikely that a scrote from state school.might behave similarly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Honestly shocked that some Republicans have found an example of public conduct that they don't think is acceptable. Paxton may well be shady as hell but they've defended worse.

    AUSTIN, Texas — Attorney General Ken Paxton pleaded not guilty to 20 articles of impeachment alleging corruption, abuse of public trust, misuse of public funds and more, as the Texas Senate began a historic impeachment trial Tuesday.

    The Republican firebrand was impeached in May by an overwhelming vote in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives over his involvement with real estate developer and donor Nate Paul. Now, the state Senate — convened as a high court of impeachment — will determine whether or not to remove him from office.


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-republicans-trump-ally-attorney-general-ken-paxton-impeachment-rcna102601
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655

    Taz said:

    I feel like with this latest crisis the government has crossed the Rubicon into the kind of territory where there is no way back. I wouldn't bet against a Labour majority.

    It is error after error both forced and unforced.

    I do not buy into Heatheners "It's 97 on Steroids" view but I think a small majority is in the offing. The Polls are not shifting back to the Tories and the news is continually not good for them,
    Noone in their right mind should

    More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.

    A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.

    Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.

    Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.

    When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.

    His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.

    Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/05/school-student-white-nationalists-bomb-instructions-court/

    You think it unlikely that a scrote from state school.might behave similarly?
    I think his point is that a Comprehensive lad (like me) would have been less competent.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,865

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    Italy is a long thin peninsula whose connection to its continent is mostly over a huge mountain range. A pet theory, for which I have little evidence, is that socially, or politically, that has given it some of the characteristics of an island.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
    I think the only Transgender MP is Jamie Wallis, who is Conservative.

    Of course, there may be others unknown to the public.
    He's not really, though, is he? He's a man who dresses up as a woman for his own private purposes. He's not, I don't think, going the whole chop-your-cock-off hog? He's claiming he wants to be trans because he thought it would get him some sympathy/attention.
    That doesn't seem to be the case:

    https://news.sky.com/story/jamie-wallis-mp-says-he-wants-to-begin-gender-transition-process-as-quickly-as-possible-as-he-describes-rape-and-blackmail-ordeal-12596079
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Taz said:

    I feel like with this latest crisis the government has crossed the Rubicon into the kind of territory where there is no way back. I wouldn't bet against a Labour majority.

    It is error after error both forced and unforced.

    I do not buy into Heatheners "It's 97 on Steroids" view but I think a small majority is in the offing. The Polls are not shifting back to the Tories and the news is continually not good for them,
    Noone in their right mind should

    More evidence showing Thatcher was right to close so many grammars.

    A grammar school student with a “deep seated interest in Right-wing extremism” sent white nationalists instructions to make bombs in the hope of encouraging a terrorist attack, a court heard.

    Malakai Wheeler allegedly shared guides on the manufacture of explosives and firearms with an online group of white nationalists dedicated to violent racism.

    Wheeler, a pupil at Marling School in Stroud, Gloucestershire, was 15 when he began sharing terrorist manifestos, a jury heard.

    When his home was searched by police they allegedly discovered publications titled the Terrorist Handbook, the Anarchist Cookbook and Homemade Detonators.

    His electrical devices were also seized and revealed to contain a “hoard” of Right-wing material, literature and manifestos of known terrorists, the court heard.

    Footage of the mass shootings in Christchurch mosques in New Zealand in 2019, overdubbed with Queen’s Don’t Stop Me Now playing, was also found on his phone, the jury was told.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/05/school-student-white-nationalists-bomb-instructions-court/

    You think it unlikely that a scrote from state school.might behave similarly?
    Marling is a state school.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Now you're changing the rules. It was historical events / places within walking / short driving distances. Now you're adding influence.

    And who influenced the world - Europe - most? The Greeks and Romans have a strong claim to that. They made Europe. The Renaissance and the Baroque gave it its culture. Britain helped make the modern world, and taught its public servants how to emulate the Roman Empire. Italy taught the world how to enjoy life - la dolce vita - and the English how to make the gardens in which to enjoy life.

    There! Sorted!

    I - lucky old me - have the best of both. And, let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    No, I mean you can go see the places which inspired these people, or shaped them


    I was led down this rabbit hole by my discovery over dinner that Darwin was born in Shrewsbury - 3 miles from where I type this - and that he was inspired by a weird stone in Shrewsbury, the Bellstone, which moulded his thinking on planetary history, and led him ultimately to the Theory of Evolution


    https://originalshrewsbury.co.uk/blog/the-history-of-shrewsburys-bellstone

    Galileo? PFF!
    Will you be venturing up the weird Long Mynd? Carding Mill valley is like a strange, steep Precambrian twin of Dovedale (but without the Muslim pilgrims). Those are the oldest rocks In Shropshire.

    It feels a bit like being on the high slopes of somewhere in the Kenyan rift valley.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    How many of them are cisgender?
    I think the only Transgender MP is Jamie Wallis, who is Conservative.

    Of course, there may be others unknown to the public.
    He's not really, though, is he? He's a man who dresses up as a woman for his own private purposes. He's not, I don't think, going the whole chop-your-cock-off hog? He's claiming he wants to be trans because he thought it would get him some sympathy/attention.
    He's on twitter. You can ask him (them?). It's not like it's difficult.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
    "We"?

    You, maybe.
    I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
    Fair enough.

    I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
  • This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in

    I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight


    Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited September 2023
    kle4 said:

    Dude, whinging about people criticising you just makes it worse, just admit you couldn't say no to bags full of cash if you aren't going to be silent about it. Laughably claiming you went to Saudia Arabia for, what, the football, is just pathetic.

    England midfielder Jordan Henderson says he was "really hurt" after being criticised for joining Al-Ettifaq.

    Henderson, who moved to the Saudi club from Liverpool in July, has been a vocal ally of the LGBTQ+ community. His move has been criticised by some LGBTQ+ campaigners, as same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Saudi Arabia.

    "My intention was never, ever to hurt anyone. My intention has always been to help causes and communities," Henderson told the Athletic. "I do care about different causes that I've been involved in, and different communities… I do care. And for people to criticise and say that I'd turned my back on them really, really hurt me.

    "All I can say is that I apologise, I'm sorry that I've made them feel that way. But I haven't changed as a person."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66714875

    This bit is pretty hilarious though. Yeah, sure, Jordan, you had no idea it might happen because you know nothing about the religion, it's not as though anyone might have mentioned something about the laws in that area.

    When his switch to Al-Ettifaq was announced, the club released a welcome video on social media with a montage of Henderson's career, but it appeared that his rainbow armband had been greyed out.

    "I didn't know anything about it until it was out," Henderson said. "It's hard for me to know and understand everything because it is part of the religion.

    That is, indeed, utter cringe

    What a lying twat. And I can think of worse words that would also be justified
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    That's a very Labour-ed metaphor

    😀😀😀
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    No.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    The Reservoir Dogs remake looks a bit different.


    (Clowns to the left of me*, jokers to the right**)
    Stuck in the middle with you

    *Corbynite wing
    **Conservative party
    The joke loses its hilarity somewhat with the frantic asterisk work to stay on message.
    I didn't want to risk being seen to be dissing Rayner*** or PB favourite Reeves****

    ***who I think is well'ard
    ****just for the hell of it
    Rayner is undoubtedly slay (I believe that’s what the youngsters call it these days) and becoming more so. She’s honed her persona very effectively: partying Manc and woman of the people who makes killer cocktails, yet serious minded (but doesn’t take herself too seriously), fierce but approachable, loyal to the leadership but independent minded.
    She is a star. The only one with real charisma in the Shadow Cabinet.
    I think Angela Rayner is great . I would be happier to see her as leader as she would give the Tories both barrels . Starmer needs to stop being so polite .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited September 2023

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, can this be true?


    “Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”


    If so, we win on geology as well


    IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE

    Where's Richard_Tyndall when you need him?
    http://www.shropshiregeology.org.uk/shropshirerocks/geologicaltime/index.htm

    I see they claim little more than fossil earth in a single quarry for the entire Palaeogene and Neogene, and none at all for the Cretaceous ...
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    edited September 2023
    Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.

    Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This is quite ridiculous

    22C at 10pm in rural Shropshire. September 5th

    Must be breaking some night time minima records here
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.

    Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.

    He does need her as a sidekick too.

    Like Attlee, if you are charisma free but in command, then surround yourself with strong characters.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,865
    Tucker Carlson taking advantage of not having to meet even Fox News' journalistic standards:

    "Tucker Carlson will release an interview with a man who claims he had sex with Barack Obama in 1999"

    https://x.com/tpostmillennial/status/1699144917333790957
  • viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.

    Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    edited September 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
    "We"?

    You, maybe.
    I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
    Fair enough.

    I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
    This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.

    Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
    James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, can this be true?


    “Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”


    If so, we win on geology as well


    IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE

    From memory alone, I think the Arran (the island off the west coast of Scotland) has the most extraordinary spread of geological time outcropping on its surface than anywhere else.

    Britain as a whole does have fairly interesting geology (and again, to the extraordinary variety point it’s more the breadth than the depth - there are more interesting fossils, caves, formations etc in loads of other places, but like a sort of geological It’s A Small World After All we have tasters of most of it).

    EDIT to add source: a mostly forgotten ‘D’ in A-level geology from 25 years ago.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    Yeah, "tiny" is a bit of a stretch

    But both the UK and Italy are relatively tiny countries compared to Russia, and the UK is relatively tinier

    Both are relatively tiny compared to their global impact

    I agree with Leon that the relatively tiny UK has had the greatest influence on the world
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.

    Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
    James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
    Philistine

    I’ve read Ulysses twice. In fact it is the ONLY book I’ve read twice. And I did it for pleasure

    I confess I couldn’t get beyond page 6 of Finnegan’s Wake but then Joyce pretty much admitted the same, of his own book
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Leon said:

    This is quite ridiculous

    22C at 10pm in rural Shropshire. September 5th

    Must be breaking some night time minima records here

    Camborne in Cornwall looks to have broken one last night, and Valentia observatory in Kerry appears to have had a minimum of 23C last night.

    We also have Saharan dust which is why the sky looked a bit Dubai-like this afternoon.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
    Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Now you're changing the rules. It was historical events / places within walking / short driving distances. Now you're adding influence.

    And who influenced the world - Europe - most? The Greeks and Romans have a strong claim to that. They made Europe. The Renaissance and the Baroque gave it its culture. Britain helped make the modern world, and taught its public servants how to emulate the Roman Empire. Italy taught the world how to enjoy life - la dolce vita - and the English how to make the gardens in which to enjoy life.

    There! Sorted!

    I - lucky old me - have the best of both. And, let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    No, I mean you can go see the places which inspired these people, or shaped them


    I was led down this rabbit hole by my discovery over dinner that Darwin was born in Shrewsbury - 3 miles from where I type this - and that he was inspired by a weird stone in Shrewsbury, the Bellstone, which moulded his thinking on planetary history, and led him ultimately to the Theory of Evolution


    https://originalshrewsbury.co.uk/blog/the-history-of-shrewsburys-bellstone

    Galileo? PFF!
    Hmm.

    Hell of a story there.

    Evolution - you have the wrong Darwin. Hus grandpa Erasmus was writing about it. AS were others before him.

    And as for "It was only when he studied geology at Edinburgh that Darwin learned that during the last ice age moving glaciers had transported massive rocks across the country."

    C. Darwin = student in Edinburgh in the late 1820s. After there had been speculation about massive floods, icebergs etc moving rocks.

    He read Lyell's Principles of Geology, 1830-33. That was the key event in his view of planetary history, arguably.

    And so far as I can recall Agassiz's glacial theory didn't come till later.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
    Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
    To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.

    Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
    James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
    Philistine

    I’ve read Ulysses twice. In fact it is the ONLY book I’ve read twice. And I did it for pleasure

    I confess I couldn’t get beyond page 6 of Finnegan’s Wake but then Joyce pretty much admitted the same, of his own book
    [Deleted]
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, can this be true?


    “Shropshire has rocks from more periods of geology than anywhere else in the world,”


    If so, we win on geology as well


    IN YOUR FACE, EVERYWHERE ELSE

    From memory alone, I think the Arran (the island off the west coast of Scotland) has the most extraordinary spread of geological time outcropping on its surface than anywhere else.

    Britain as a whole does have fairly interesting geology (and again, to the extraordinary variety point it’s more the breadth than the depth - there are more interesting fossils, caves, formations etc in loads of other places, but like a sort of geological It’s A Small World After All we have tasters of most of it).

    EDIT to add source: a mostly forgotten ‘D’ in A-level geology from 25 years ago.
    Even in the SE we have some sedimentary geology that’s extremely complex in a small area. My profile picture is from the geological map of the Kent downs south of Canterbury where my vineyard is. Multiple very different soils and bedrock types even on this predominantly chalk formation. Wealden sands to the South West, upper, middle and lower chalk, periglacial drift deposits (head), loess, London clay beds and even a coal seam over Thanet.
  • Foxy said:

    Nah Rayner is better as deputy. She’s get eaten alive as leader.

    Keir is the right leader. Boring competence is just what Labour needs. An Attlee or Wilson type but with the longevity of Blair: Brown without being useless.

    He does need her as a sidekick too.

    Like Attlee, if you are charisma free but in command, then surround yourself with strong characters.
    One of the differences between now and 2021 seems to be that Starmer and Rayner have an understanding (maybe that one is a Sordid Deal) of what each brings to the table and why they each need the other.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    ... let's face it, Shakespeare aside, the best literature in English has been written by the Irish. 😉
    I'm playing outside my sphere of competence here, but isn't it the Americans?

    Hmmm....not sure they have anyone to match James Joyce.

    Russians might have been a better shot. Tolstoy was quite good, and Dostoyevsky could turn a nice phrase or two.
    James Joyce is to carry, or put on your bookshelf. No one actually reads it.
    Philistine

    I’ve read Ulysses twice. In fact it is the ONLY book I’ve read twice. And I did it for pleasure

    I confess I couldn’t get beyond page 6 of Finnegan’s Wake but then Joyce pretty much admitted the same, of his own book
    Don't wish to argue with either of you, but you gotta admit Portrait Of The Artist is a ripping good read as well as a great work of art.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    And yet all we remember about them is Romans, Pizza, and medieval banking.
    "We"?

    You, maybe.
    I was speaking on behalf of the culturally ignorant average Briton - what are the cliches that are regurgitated etc, I think that's pretty clear from the context, given you comment was about what 'Britain' was edging on ahead on. It was a lament.
    Fair enough.

    I feel immensely privileged to have been brought up in Naples. Though if you mentioned that to most English people at the time they'd politely recoil in horror, assuming that you were some sort of peasant working for the Mafia. Add in the barely disguised contempt for the Irish - and our family may as well have worn T-shirts with the word "troll" on them. There is nothing like being on the receiving end of middle class English contempt to inoculate you against it for the rest of your born days.
    This is definitely the weirdest question you've ever been asked, but have you seen Equaliser 3? It's set in Italy (Sicily?) And the village it's set in is extraordinarily beautiful. We all see the tourism stuff but I am constantly amazed by the beauty of even poor places in the Mediterranean. Leon is wandering thru chocolate-box Britain and ignoring the rat-holes, but in Italy even the rat-holes look good.
    But I am not wandering through chocolate box Britain. I am not far from Telford, Redditch, Brum…

    And trust me, rat-hole Italy is fucking horrible. You don’t know what you are talking about. There are entire slum towns in Calabria which make Egypt look tolerable. Infested with Mafiosi, half built due to corruption,3/4 ruined due to earthquakes, deeply poor and ugly, and no amount of sun can save the concrete, squalor, litter and torpor

    See also the burbs around Naples, many towns in Puglia, some of the shanty towns around Genoa, the ugly suburban sprawl in the Veneto (bleak as fuck), the worst bits of Sicily, and much else

    You haven’t been to any of these places, have you?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    Agreed; the UK has nigh-on 70m people. That is not small by really anyone’s measure, let alone tiny. We’re nudging into the top 10% of countries ranked by population. If I was in the top ten 10% of adult men by height*, I would not be small. I’d be quite tall.

    Britain’s a decent sized island as well, and whole the UK is not actually that physically big a country it’s not like we all live on the Isle of Man or something.



    *I am not
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
    Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
    To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
    It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    This is what's in a day's walk between me and Avebury. Two days' walk to fit it all in

    I could get the bus back, and out again in the morning, or stay there overnight


    Make sure you get to the West Kennet barrow, and walk around Silbury while you're nearby. If it makes sense, do those on the way to Avebury. Haven't been to The sanctuary but it's another important part of the Sacred Landscape.
    Silbury is a place I’m particularly awestruck by.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
    Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
    To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
    It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
    Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    I’m appreciative of the love being shown for British history and heritage this evening.

    Reinforces my desire to bin off those bloody boring ‘marbles’ from the BM and put something decent in instead. Do it before someone (else) nicks them anyway.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a thought. Is there “more to see per square mile” in the UK than anywhere else on earth?

    I suspect that might be true

    I am in Upton Magna, Shropshire

    I am 12 miles from Ironbridge, UNESCO listed, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, one of the most important places on earth

    I am 3 miles from Shrewsbury, a splendidly preserved Medieval-Georgian English market town, childhood home of Darwin. I am half an hour from Ludlow, which is even better

    I am right next door to Attingham Park, a glorious 18th century mansion, on a site with 4000 years of human history, Bronze Age, Roman, you name it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attingham_Park

    I am 2 minutes from Haughmond Abbey, an exquisite ruin of a 12th century abbey

    I am 20 minutes from incredible Stokesay Castle

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokesay_Castle

    I am a short drive from eerie Clee Hill, with - again - millennia of history

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/titterstone-clee-hill

    I am surrounded by medieval churches and Iron Age hill forts and weird Manor Houses and the like

    I don’t believe any other country on earth offers this variety of history, scenery, culture, weirdness, beauty, ugliness, packed into such a tiny space

    Italy.

    Take Naples for instance - in one street you can be above Greek and Roman ruins, within a few minutes walk of Norman castles and castles built by the Anjou, and the Spanish quarter built by the Spanish Hapsburgs, palaces built by the Bourbons and inhabited by Napoleon's brother and Nelson and William Hamilton who took vases from Pompei which inspired Wedgwood in England and a bank building with Caravaggio paintings in it. You have Vesuvius nearby and Amalfi, where the law of the sea was first formulated, and the first railway line built in Italy, and so on. An awful lot of history and art and culture is packed into a small place.

    Much the same could be said for many other places in Italy.
    yes, I agree the World Cup final of “most interesting place per sq m” is between the UK and Italy

    They have the edge in ancient and Renaissance history but we have the edge in more modern history

    So far on this road trip I’d say our food is better. I have been superbly well fed
    And Baroque and 18th C history. Plus WW battlefields. They probably win on criminal history too! Fiats. Films - especially post-War: Rossellini vs Ealing Comedies.

    Though I think Britain is probably now edging it on public / political scandals!
    But we trounce them on global influence post 1700. The English language, the British Empire, all our colonial adventures, and all those incredible inventions which changed the world, all coming from this relatively tiny island (and you can’t move without bumping into the birthplace of such and such a person who transformed this or that). The British basically invented the modern world

    So I reckon WE edge it, but they have nicer ice cream. And, yes, I am biased. And also a little tipsy
    Can I just pull you up on 'relatively tiny island'? Great Britain is the 8th largest island in the world (out of roughly 900,000). And, I think, roughly the 5th most populous (out of roughly 16,000 inhabited). As islands go, its a humdinger.
    We're a relatively tiny country, that is also an island

    I think "relatively tiny island" is fair and fine, when comparing to Italy
    We're not really a relatively tiny country, though. We're above the middle in terms of area, and pretty close to the top in terms of population. It's like saying a human is a relatively tiny mammal because much bigger ones exist. Sure, it's not the biggest, but tiny? San Marino is tiny. Moldova could be decribed, arguably, as relatively tiny. The UK cannot, really.
    I appreciate Leon was using a rhetorical flourish but I can't let the 'tiny island' bit go past without comment from him or anyone else. If anyone ever uses it without comment from me you can assume I am elsewhere.
    All Bryson’s fault for calling it notes from a small island. But he’s American do everything over here is small.
    Bryson's later book(s) on Britain are not so complimentary. He hates fly-tipping.
    To stay on theme, the only developed country with worse fly tipping than Britain is Southern Italy.
    It’s absolutely revolting. I have vivid recollections of a drive along the Eastern slopes of Etna where the entire roadside was strewn with rubbish bags, for mile upon mile. British fly tipping is far more localised.
    Can't remember the last time I saw any fly-tipping in this part of the UK.
    Plenty around me. It happens most weeks.
This discussion has been closed.