Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Still make the LD's third favourite. Sorry OGH. If I had to be pushed I'd say Tory hold. With Labour third. But the value is laying the LD's. It is very complex. A rogue poll could have a lot of influence. Expect the Tory press have one prepared.
French President Emmanuel Macron slammed the two-term constitutional limit that means he must step down in 2027 as “damnable bullshit” in a meeting with party leaders yesterday.
Indeed, with Macron ineligible to be her opponent again Marine Le Pen has a real chance of winning the French Presidency in her third attempt at the run off stage
If Le Pen wins it will be hilarious to see the contortions of the Remoaners
Why . Le Pen has ditched her proposals for a referendum . The French aren’t leaving the EU no matter how desperate Leavers are to see some validation for their idiocy !
What more validation do they need?! Aren't the glories of the Truss premiership enough?
@Foxy actually makes a good point about Meloni, even if I replied sardonically
Meloni has been forced to retreat, quite significantly, now she has been elected
I wonder if Le Pen will do the same if she wins? Tack to the centre right, from the hard right? (she is no longer in any sense "far right" like her dad)
Quite possibly. Tho the difference is she has pressure from her right, as well as her left. Zemmour gets few votes but he is an influential figure
It's not only the left who get mugged by reality; the right does too. Within the various constraints of western Europe and the EU the area of what is possible in government is highly restricted by common moral sense, and by pre existing patterns of development.
Both left and right populism suffer from the defect that while each individual populist proposal (stop the boats, family values, whatever) may even have some merit and certainly support, governments have to run entire states including all the contradictions and over simplifications inherent in the totality of populist positions.
Indeed. But I point you to the success of Poland - almost zero immigration (absent Ukraine), specifically zero Muslim/black immigration (that is a blunt fact, even if we find it racist or offensive), and they have a relatively thriving economy, bustling cities, and one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world
They really don't want to end up as fucked as Sweden
Polish crime rate:
"Poland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in Europe, with particularly low levels of vandalism and arson. Its homicide rate is also one of the lowest in the world"
I can vouch for this feeling of safety. You can walk around a Polish city and you don't worry about having your phone stolen. Sadly, London is very different
Immigration can deliver against demographic challenges but can also deliver social change.
Japan isn't bothered by either, Sweden (hitherto) really likes the latter, Canada likes both, and we essentially like just the former.
Poland thinks there's another way, and there is if you can home grow the skills and up your birth/ growth rate.
Sweden is rapidly changing its mind on the whole "immigration is great for social change!" thing
"Sweden rocked by four blasts in one night. Swedish cities were rocked by 4 explosions in an hour, with the country struggling to rein in a surge of gang-related violence.
"Gang related violence" didn't exist in Sweden 30 years ago. Police are baffled."
Labour are polling higher than they have since the early Blair years and on the Selby by election swing would win Mid Beds, so will not give the LDs a clear run
Not that massive swings are not interesting, who doesn't love a bit of drama after all, but despite lip service in those seats it was always clear who the main opponent to the Tories would be. This one I really doubt will be a close three way or anything, it's just not immediately clear who benefits.
My gut feeling is that Labour will now claim the mantle of principal opposition in the seat. Something in the general nature of reporting just doesn't feel like a LD triumph to me.
Central Bedfordshire council is currently formulating their 4th Local Transport Plan. The first document of the plan, published before the Tories lost half their seats in the 2023 election, discusses reducing on-street parking to encourage more walking and cycling for shorter journeys, and for longer journeys encourage more sustainable options such as using public transport wherever possible.
French President Emmanuel Macron slammed the two-term constitutional limit that means he must step down in 2027 as “damnable bullshit” in a meeting with party leaders yesterday.
Indeed, with Macron ineligible to be her opponent again Marine Le Pen has a real chance of winning the French Presidency in her third attempt at the run off stage
If Le Pen wins it will be hilarious to see the contortions of the Remoaners
Why . Le Pen has ditched her proposals for a referendum . The French aren’t leaving the EU no matter how desperate Leavers are to see some validation for their idiocy !
What more validation do they need?! Aren't the glories of the Truss premiership enough?
@Foxy actually makes a good point about Meloni, even if I replied sardonically
Meloni has been forced to retreat, quite significantly, now she has been elected
I wonder if Le Pen will do the same if she wins? Tack to the centre right, from the hard right? (she is no longer in any sense "far right" like her dad)
Quite possibly. Tho the difference is she has pressure from her right, as well as her left. Zemmour gets few votes but he is an influential figure
It's not only the left who get mugged by reality; the right does too. Within the various constraints of western Europe and the EU the area of what is possible in government is highly restricted by common moral sense, and by pre existing patterns of development.
Both left and right populism suffer from the defect that while each individual populist proposal (stop the boats, family values, whatever) may even have some merit and certainly support, governments have to run entire states including all the contradictions and over simplifications inherent in the totality of populist positions.
Indeed. But I point you to the success of Poland - almost zero immigration (absent Ukraine), specifically zero Muslim/black immigration (that is a blunt fact, even if we find it racist or offensive), and they have a relatively thriving economy, bustling cities, and one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world
They really don't want to end up as fucked as Sweden
Polish crime rate:
"Poland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in Europe, with particularly low levels of vandalism and arson. Its homicide rate is also one of the lowest in the world"
I can vouch for this feeling of safety. You can walk around a Polish city and you don't worry about having your phone stolen. Sadly, London is very different
Immigration can deliver against demographic challenges but can also deliver social change.
Japan isn't bothered by either, Sweden (hitherto) really likes the latter, Canada likes both, and we essentially like just the former.
Poland thinks there's another way, and there is if you can home grow the skills and up your birth/ growth rate.
Sweden is rapidly changing its mind on the whole "immigration is great for social change!" thing
"Sweden rocked by four blasts in one night. Swedish cities were rocked by 4 explosions in an hour, with the country struggling to rein in a surge of gang-related violence.
"Gang related violence" didn't exist in Sweden 30 years ago. Police are baffled."
Labour are polling higher than they have since the early Blair years and on the Selby by election swing would win Mid Beds, so will not give the LDs a clear run
Which means the Tories' chances go from about 1% to around 50%.
French President Emmanuel Macron slammed the two-term constitutional limit that means he must step down in 2027 as “damnable bullshit” in a meeting with party leaders yesterday.
Indeed, with Macron ineligible to be her opponent again Marine Le Pen has a real chance of winning the French Presidency in her third attempt at the run off stage
If Le Pen wins it will be hilarious to see the contortions of the Remoaners
Why . Le Pen has ditched her proposals for a referendum . The French aren’t leaving the EU no matter how desperate Leavers are to see some validation for their idiocy !
What more validation do they need?! Aren't the glories of the Truss premiership enough?
@Foxy actually makes a good point about Meloni, even if I replied sardonically
Meloni has been forced to retreat, quite significantly, now she has been elected
I wonder if Le Pen will do the same if she wins? Tack to the centre right, from the hard right? (she is no longer in any sense "far right" like her dad)
Quite possibly. Tho the difference is she has pressure from her right, as well as her left. Zemmour gets few votes but he is an influential figure
It's not only the left who get mugged by reality; the right does too. Within the various constraints of western Europe and the EU the area of what is possible in government is highly restricted by common moral sense, and by pre existing patterns of development.
Both left and right populism suffer from the defect that while each individual populist proposal (stop the boats, family values, whatever) may even have some merit and certainly support, governments have to run entire states including all the contradictions and over simplifications inherent in the totality of populist positions.
Indeed. But I point you to the success of Poland - almost zero immigration (absent Ukraine), specifically zero Muslim/black immigration (that is a blunt fact, even if we find it racist or offensive), and they have a relatively thriving economy, bustling cities, and one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world
They really don't want to end up as fucked as Sweden
Polish crime rate:
"Poland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in Europe, with particularly low levels of vandalism and arson. Its homicide rate is also one of the lowest in the world"
I can vouch for this feeling of safety. You can walk around a Polish city and you don't worry about having your phone stolen. Sadly, London is very different
Immigration can deliver against demographic challenges but can also deliver social change.
Japan isn't bothered by either, Sweden (hitherto) really likes the latter, Canada likes both, and we essentially like just the former.
Poland thinks there's another way, and there is if you can home grow the skills and up your birth/ growth rate.
Sweden is rapidly changing its mind on the whole "immigration is great for social change!" thing
"Sweden rocked by four blasts in one night. Swedish cities were rocked by 4 explosions in an hour, with the country struggling to rein in a surge of gang-related violence.
"Gang related violence" didn't exist in Sweden 30 years ago. Police are baffled."
Labour are polling higher than they have since the early Blair years and on the Selby by election swing would win Mid Beds, so will not give the LDs a clear run
Which means the Tories' chances go from about 1% to around 50%.
Well so what, Starmer wants to be PM of a Labour government with an overall majority, not a minority Labour government reliant on the LDs which from his perspective would be more likely if the LDs won a Tory seat Labour were second in in 2019
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
French President Emmanuel Macron slammed the two-term constitutional limit that means he must step down in 2027 as “damnable bullshit” in a meeting with party leaders yesterday.
Indeed, with Macron ineligible to be her opponent again Marine Le Pen has a real chance of winning the French Presidency in her third attempt at the run off stage
If Le Pen wins it will be hilarious to see the contortions of the Remoaners
Why . Le Pen has ditched her proposals for a referendum . The French aren’t leaving the EU no matter how desperate Leavers are to see some validation for their idiocy !
What more validation do they need?! Aren't the glories of the Truss premiership enough?
@Foxy actually makes a good point about Meloni, even if I replied sardonically
Meloni has been forced to retreat, quite significantly, now she has been elected
I wonder if Le Pen will do the same if she wins? Tack to the centre right, from the hard right? (she is no longer in any sense "far right" like her dad)
Quite possibly. Tho the difference is she has pressure from her right, as well as her left. Zemmour gets few votes but he is an influential figure
It's not only the left who get mugged by reality; the right does too. Within the various constraints of western Europe and the EU the area of what is possible in government is highly restricted by common moral sense, and by pre existing patterns of development.
Both left and right populism suffer from the defect that while each individual populist proposal (stop the boats, family values, whatever) may even have some merit and certainly support, governments have to run entire states including all the contradictions and over simplifications inherent in the totality of populist positions.
Indeed. But I point you to the success of Poland - almost zero immigration (absent Ukraine), specifically zero Muslim/black immigration (that is a blunt fact, even if we find it racist or offensive), and they have a relatively thriving economy, bustling cities, and one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world
They really don't want to end up as fucked as Sweden
Polish crime rate:
"Poland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in Europe, with particularly low levels of vandalism and arson. Its homicide rate is also one of the lowest in the world"
I can vouch for this feeling of safety. You can walk around a Polish city and you don't worry about having your phone stolen. Sadly, London is very different
Immigration can deliver against demographic challenges but can also deliver social change.
Japan isn't bothered by either, Sweden (hitherto) really likes the latter, Canada likes both, and we essentially like just the former.
Poland thinks there's another way, and there is if you can home grow the skills and up your birth/ growth rate.
Sweden is rapidly changing its mind on the whole "immigration is great for social change!" thing
"Sweden rocked by four blasts in one night. Swedish cities were rocked by 4 explosions in an hour, with the country struggling to rein in a surge of gang-related violence.
"Gang related violence" didn't exist in Sweden 30 years ago. Police are baffled."
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
You got back from Basildon, alive? Lucky kid.
Well, technically it's in Rochefort
Don't you have to go past Basildon to get there....and without an armed guard?
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
The problem is Labour just don't have the base to win a seat like Mid Beds. You can see this from the 1997 election result where they only managed 32.5% to the Tories' 46%.
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
The problem is Labour just don't have the base to win a seat like Mid Beds. You can see this from the 1997 election result where they only managed 32.5% to the Tories' 46%.
On the Selby swing Labour would win Mid Beds and Labour were second in the seat in 1997 and 2019, not the LDs
French President Emmanuel Macron slammed the two-term constitutional limit that means he must step down in 2027 as “damnable bullshit” in a meeting with party leaders yesterday.
Indeed, with Macron ineligible to be her opponent again Marine Le Pen has a real chance of winning the French Presidency in her third attempt at the run off stage
If Le Pen wins it will be hilarious to see the contortions of the Remoaners
Why . Le Pen has ditched her proposals for a referendum . The French aren’t leaving the EU no matter how desperate Leavers are to see some validation for their idiocy !
What more validation do they need?! Aren't the glories of the Truss premiership enough?
@Foxy actually makes a good point about Meloni, even if I replied sardonically
Meloni has been forced to retreat, quite significantly, now she has been elected
I wonder if Le Pen will do the same if she wins? Tack to the centre right, from the hard right? (she is no longer in any sense "far right" like her dad)
Quite possibly. Tho the difference is she has pressure from her right, as well as her left. Zemmour gets few votes but he is an influential figure
It's not only the left who get mugged by reality; the right does too. Within the various constraints of western Europe and the EU the area of what is possible in government is highly restricted by common moral sense, and by pre existing patterns of development.
Both left and right populism suffer from the defect that while each individual populist proposal (stop the boats, family values, whatever) may even have some merit and certainly support, governments have to run entire states including all the contradictions and over simplifications inherent in the totality of populist positions.
Indeed. But I point you to the success of Poland - almost zero immigration (absent Ukraine), specifically zero Muslim/black immigration (that is a blunt fact, even if we find it racist or offensive), and they have a relatively thriving economy, bustling cities, and one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world
They really don't want to end up as fucked as Sweden
Polish crime rate:
"Poland has one of the lowest violent crime rates in Europe, with particularly low levels of vandalism and arson. Its homicide rate is also one of the lowest in the world"
I can vouch for this feeling of safety. You can walk around a Polish city and you don't worry about having your phone stolen. Sadly, London is very different
Immigration can deliver against demographic challenges but can also deliver social change.
Japan isn't bothered by either, Sweden (hitherto) really likes the latter, Canada likes both, and we essentially like just the former.
Poland thinks there's another way, and there is if you can home grow the skills and up your birth/ growth rate.
Sweden is rapidly changing its mind on the whole "immigration is great for social change!" thing
"Sweden rocked by four blasts in one night. Swedish cities were rocked by 4 explosions in an hour, with the country struggling to rein in a surge of gang-related violence.
"Gang related violence" didn't exist in Sweden 30 years ago. Police are baffled."
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
The problem is Labour just don't have the base to win a seat like Mid Beds. You can see this from the 1997 election result where they only managed 32.5% to the Tories' 46%.
You may be right, and personally I'd be surprised if Labour win it. But I don't think the 1997 election result has any relevance.
Fwiw, I think Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy, especially in contrast to next door Norway. But there's a lot of hyperbole in some posts...
The banter outcome for Mid Beds is Con 1st, LD 2nd, Lab 3rd.
That allows the LibDems to accuse Labour of splitting the vote and opens up the usual Labour civil war of “too beige” vs “too socialist” vs “all the fault of someone in LOTO’s office who I don’t like” vs (contd. p94)
Fwiw, I think Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy, especially in contrast to next door Norway. But there's a lot of hyperbole in some posts...
Do you want to do rapes, and sexual offences? No? OK, I’ll do them
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
The problem is Labour just don't have the base to win a seat like Mid Beds. You can see this from the 1997 election result where they only managed 32.5% to the Tories' 46%.
On the Selby swing Labour would win Mid Beds and Labour were second in the seat in 1997 and 2019, not the LDs
Since 1987, LDs came second only in 2005 and 2010.
Fwiw, I think Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy, especially in contrast to next door Norway. But there's a lot of hyperbole in some posts...
Do you want to do rapes, and sexual offences? No? OK, I’ll do them
There won't be a mid-Beds by election: Sunak to announce an October GE just before the Tory Party conference, on the basis that 'it's not going to get any better than now'.
Fwiw, I think Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy, especially in contrast to next door Norway. But there's a lot of hyperbole in some posts...
Do you want to do rapes, and sexual offences? No? OK, I’ll do them
As I said, I agree that Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy.
The reason Sweden is significant is because of how badly they've managed immigration compared to similar countries like Denmark and Norway.
That's certainly true. Indeed, it's hard to think of anywhere that has managed to fuck it up so badly.
And the crazy bit is, the Swedes haven't actually taken that many asylum seekers compared to - say - Spain or Switzerland. And yet, they've managed to ghettoize them and completely fail any kind of assimilation, or fitting in with local norms.
Fwiw, I think Sweden has really fucked up its immigration policy, especially in contrast to next door Norway. But there's a lot of hyperbole in some posts...
How could you have allowed this to happen?! A line neverbefore crossed, gone in an instant...
There won't be a mid-Beds by election: Sunak to announce an October GE just before the Tory Party conference, on the basis that 'it's not going to get any better than now'.
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2023
or
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2024
It still seems an easy choice to me, from his perspective. Party prospects? Eh, why care about that, he might retain his seat but he'll be taking it easy on the backbenches for the next 3-5 years anyway.
That correlation between immigration into Sweden, and murders in Sweden, and rapes/sexual offences in Sweden, is one of the most startling I have ever seen - in terms of nation-scale statistics
The immigration starts, big time, in about 2012? The surge in rapes, homicides, begins soon after, and follows it with exactitude
Swedes are not dim. This is presumably why they have started voting for the far right Sweden Democrats, to the extent they are now propping up the Swedish government
Did all the murderers leave after they joined the EU?
Nope: but young men are people who commit murders, and the young men left when they joined the EU.
The preponderance of young men among those applying for asylum explains a lot of the opposition to it, as well as the different attitude to refugees from Ukraine.
I mean. Just look at the graphs. The first graph shows swedish sexual offences against women, including rape
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
If it's *all* about immigration, how do you explain why Norway (with very similar immigration trends) has seen these trends:
I won't argue that detailed point. I don't know the granular facts about Norway and Denmark v Sweden. Clearly - as you say - something has gone uniquely bad with immigration into Sweden. Nonetheless it IS immigration, mainly Muslim (AIUI)
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
Did all the murderers leave after they joined the EU?
Nope: but young men are people who commit murders, and the young men left when they joined the EU.
The preponderance of young men among those applying for asylum explains a lot of the opposition to it, as well as the different attitude to refugees from Ukraine.
The numbers are even more lopsided than I thought. Over half of all asylum seekers in the UK last year were males under 30, and the majority of the rest were also male. Females make up less than a quarter overall.
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
Yes, I've just signed up for the canvass session emails - they're doing three a day in different part of mid-Beds. Hoping to spend some time there in September.
On topic, Labour are certainly going full blaze for Mid Beds. A 'personal' email from Labour's candidate has gone out to all members tonight, seeking support both financial and on the doorstep. I don't recall getting one of those for either Selby or Somerton & Frome.
The problem is Labour just don't have the base to win a seat like Mid Beds. You can see this from the 1997 election result where they only managed 32.5% to the Tories' 46%.
On the Selby swing Labour would win Mid Beds and Labour were second in the seat in 1997 and 2019, not the LDs
The swing is Selby is quite irrelevant, young HY. Do you think that the Lib Dems were pulling out all the stops there? They most certainly are in Mid Beds.
There won't be a mid-Beds by election: Sunak to announce an October GE just before the Tory Party conference, on the basis that 'it's not going to get any better than now'.
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2023
or
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2024
It still seems an easy choice to me, from his perspective. Party prospects? Eh, why care about that, he might retain his seat but he'll be taking it easy on the backbenches for the next 3-5 years anyway.
2022-2025 also available, though I don't expect it.
That correlation between immigration into Sweden, and murders in Sweden, and rapes/sexual offences in Sweden, is one of the most startling I have ever seen - in terms of nation-scale statistics
The immigration starts, big time, in about 2012? The surge in rapes, homicides, begins soon after, and follows it with exactitude
Swedes are not dim. This is presumably why they have started voting for the far right Sweden Democrats, to the extent they are now propping up the Swedish government
But they don't correlate.
What is your thesis, and how does the data compare to the thesis? Is your thesis that immigrants cause rapes?
Why is there a drop-off in rapes at the end of the chart? Is it because there's fewer immigrants in Sweden, if your thesis is that immigrants cause rapes?
Because no, there aren't fewer immigrants in Sweden. There may be somewhat fewer migrating in the final years, but the ones who already migrated are still there. There are more immigrants in Sweden in the final years than a couple of years earlier, but fewer rapes, so immigration now is reducing rapes by your logic.
You've correlated a first and second order variable and called them the same. It doesn't work that way.
There won't be a mid-Beds by election: Sunak to announce an October GE just before the Tory Party conference, on the basis that 'it's not going to get any better than now'.
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2023
or
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2024
It still seems an easy choice to me, from his perspective. Party prospects? Eh, why care about that, he might retain his seat but he'll be taking it easy on the backbenches for the next 3-5 years anyway.
2022-2025 also available, though I don't expect it.
Only a few months desperate, but clinging on to 2025 is just that extra level of desperation that I think his dignity (no laughter please) would not support it.
Did all the murderers leave after they joined the EU?
Nope: but young men are people who commit murders, and the young men left when they joined the EU.
The preponderance of young men among those applying for asylum explains a lot of the opposition to it, as well as the different attitude to refugees from Ukraine.
I mean. Just look at the graphs. The first graph shows swedish sexual offences against women, including rape
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
If it's *all* about immigration, how do you explain why Norway (with very similar immigration trends) has seen these trends:
I won't argue that detailed point. I don't know the granular facts about Norway and Denmark v Sweden. Clearly - as you say - something has gone uniquely bad with immigration into Sweden. Nonetheless it IS immigration, mainly Muslim (AIUI)
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
I would suggest that - as I have said before - it is not to do with where the immigrants come from but how they are hanlded once they arrive in the country. There are very large numbers of immigrants arriving in Norway from the countries you mention. The difference is that the Norwegian Government has what you might call a 'tough love' system. Anyone wanting to settle in Norway has to undertake 300 hours (up from 200 hours when I worked there) of compulsory Norwegian language and culture lessons. Even if you are doing a couple of hours every single week that is still nearly 3 years of compulsory lessons.
And asylum seekers are not allowed to just live anywhere. To avoid the formation of ghettos or areas of dominant immigrant population they are told which county they have to live in for the first few years.
The system works. I have never been in a country where the immigrant population was so well integrated. And it is a ciculcular thing. Because the integration is so good the acceptance of large numbers of immigrants is very high amongst the Norwegian population in general. So the immigrants feel more welcome and so there is a much better relationship.
Of course I am sure it is nopt all plain sailing all the time and sadly you still get lunatics like Anders Brevik. But as I said at the time - indeed I think in conversation with you - it is ironic that he was railing against immigration when Norway is one of the most integrated countries in Europe - and thoroughly Norwegian.
The reason Sweden is significant is because of how badly they've managed immigration compared to similar countries like Denmark and Norway.
That's certainly true. Indeed, it's hard to think of anywhere that has managed to fuck it up so badly.
And the crazy bit is, the Swedes haven't actually taken that many asylum seekers compared to - say - Spain or Switzerland. And yet, they've managed to ghettoize them and completely fail any kind of assimilation, or fitting in with local norms.
At the latest count refugees/asylum seekers make up 4.4% of Norways population. Not all immigrants - just refugees/asylum seekers
I mean. Just look at the graphs. The first graph shows swedish sexual offences against women, including rape
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
If it's *all* about immigration, how do you explain why Norway (with very similar immigration trends) has seen these trends:
I won't argue that detailed point. I don't know the granular facts about Norway and Denmark v Sweden. Clearly - as you say - something has gone uniquely bad with immigration into Sweden. Nonetheless it IS immigration, mainly Muslim (AIUI)
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
So why has Sweden had terrible trouble, while Norway has had - essentially - none?
Basically: Norway (and to a lesser extent Denmark and Finland) puts a massive amount of emphasis on integration and getting immigrants speaking Norwegian. IIRC Mr Tyndall, when he was living there (and even as a highly paid oil industry worker) was required to take Norwegian lessons. They also go to a great deal of trouble to make sure that they don't let ghettos form. Basically, if you're a Syrian refugee, you probably won't find yourself with other Syrian refugees. But on the other hand, this seems to work: employment rates for Eritreans / Syrians / are pretty close to those for the native born.
Sweden, by contrast, welcomed everyone and then chucked them in grim housing estates in Lund and the outskirts of Stockholm, without any skills or any significant likelihood of integrating or even earning a living.
The reason Sweden is significant is because of how badly they've managed immigration compared to similar countries like Denmark and Norway.
That's certainly true. Indeed, it's hard to think of anywhere that has managed to fuck it up so badly.
And the crazy bit is, the Swedes haven't actually taken that many asylum seekers compared to - say - Spain or Switzerland. And yet, they've managed to ghettoize them and completely fail any kind of assimilation, or fitting in with local norms.
At the latest count refugees/asylum seekers make up 4.4% of Norways population. Not all immigrants - just refugees/asylum seekers
It is worth noting that Norway has taken asylum seekers from Poland. As in, Poles who found themselves oppressed by the government there.
The reason Sweden is significant is because of how badly they've managed immigration compared to similar countries like Denmark and Norway.
That's certainly true. Indeed, it's hard to think of anywhere that has managed to fuck it up so badly.
And the crazy bit is, the Swedes haven't actually taken that many asylum seekers compared to - say - Spain or Switzerland. And yet, they've managed to ghettoize them and completely fail any kind of assimilation, or fitting in with local norms.
At the latest count refugees/asylum seekers make up 4.4% of Norways population. Not all immigrants - just refugees/asylum seekers
(Yeah, but I was looking for countries that started with "S" because they scanned better.)
I mean. Just look at the graphs. The first graph shows swedish sexual offences against women, including rape
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
If it's *all* about immigration, how do you explain why Norway (with very similar immigration trends) has seen these trends:
I won't argue that detailed point. I don't know the granular facts about Norway and Denmark v Sweden. Clearly - as you say - something has gone uniquely bad with immigration into Sweden. Nonetheless it IS immigration, mainly Muslim (AIUI)
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
I would suggest that - as I have said before - it is not to do with where the immigrants come from but how they are hanlded once they arrive in the country. There are very large numbers of immigrants arriving in Norway from the countries you mention. The difference is that the Norwegian Government has what you might call a 'tough love' system. Anyone wanting to settle in Norway has to undertake 300 hours (up from 200 hours when I worked there) of compulsory Norwegian language and culture lessons. Even if you are doing a couple of hours every single week that is still nearly 3 years of compulsory lessons.
And asylum seekers are not allowed to just live anywhere. To avoid the formation of ghettos or areas of dominant immigrant population they are told which county they have to live in for the first few years.
The system works. I have never been in a country where the immigrant population was so well integrated. And it is a ciculcular thing. Because the integration is so good the acceptance of large numbers of immigrants is very high amongst the Norwegian population in general. So the immigrants feel more welcome and so there is a much better relationship.
Of course I am sure it is nopt all plain sailing all the time and sadly you still get lunatics like Anders Brevik. But as I said at the time - indeed I think in conversation with you - it is ironic that he was railing against immigration when Norway is one of the most integrated countries in Europe - and thoroughly Norwegian.
You know, I went to a lot of trouble to write a post, and then I see you have written a better one.
Apart from possibly laying the LDs, I don’t at the moment see any outstanding betting opportunity in Mid Beds. Safest bet ATM seems to be not to bet.
What's the reason for laying the LDs?
The theory espoused by some is that market participants are overestimating their probability of winning, perhaps based on recent by-election successes where they have made a big effort. The difference being that Lab are also making a big effort, and start in 2nd place. Laying the LDs obviously also covers the not-inconsiderable chance of the Tories sneaking back in through the middle.
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Protection money offers something in return. ULEZ is just extortion
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Protection money offers something in return. ULEZ is just extortion
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Protection money offers something in return. ULEZ is just extortion
Surely the point of protection money is precisely that you get nothing in return? It's what you get if you fail to pay that is the issue.
Apart from possibly laying the LDs, I don’t at the moment see any outstanding betting opportunity in Mid Beds. Safest bet ATM seems to be not to bet.
What's the reason for laying the LDs?
They were third in the election and were third in the last polling in (I think) July. Unless a new poll comes out with them in first or second, there's no reason to think they'll win.
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
Protection money offers something in return. ULEZ is just extortion
Surely the point of protection money is precisely that you get nothing in return? It's what you get if you fail to pay that is the issue.
Protection money is about proving a negative - if you pay up then you won’t get beaten up… if you don’t then we won’t protect you…
I have been in Switzerland for the last couple of weeks, mixing work and pleasure, exclusively in the German-speaking part. Overall, it's as spotless, safe and pleasant as it has been every other time I've visited. Here are my more detailed impressions for those interested:
- relations with the EU: most I discussed it with were happy with the status quo, but uneasy about the future. Most also expected that the EU would eventually find a way to renege on the thicket of bilateral agreements that Switzerland has and force it into a situation more like Norway's. No sign of this happening at the moment, though. - economy: doing fairly well despite the very strong franc. But everybody watching the situation in Germany, which Switzerland tends to track, very closely. - Brexit: this was followed suprisingly closely in Switzerland. Opinion followed broadly the same left-right split as in Britain, with my left-wing friends saying they can't believe we did it, and my conservative contacts wondering what took us so long. - politics: unlike every other country I've visited recently, most people seem reasonably happy with the current government, which, as usual in Switzerland, is a broad coalition. After been untouchable twenty years ago, the conservative and anti-immigrant SVP is now seen as part of the establishment. There are no distinctive and compelling political issues at the moment. - the army: there was an amusing and so very Swiss moment when my train crossed the border from Germany and at the first stop a couple of dozen soldiers, whose weekend training had just ended, got on in full camouflage with their rifles over their shoulders. In most countries I'd feel threated by that, but somehow in Switzerland I even felt slightly safer. Everybody seems to hate their military training, but nobody thinks it'll stop soon, and those that absolutely despise it can get out of it by claiming to be gay and having psychological problems. And when you ask them who exactly the army defends against, you never get a clear answer. - Ukraine. Everybody is very pro-Ukrainian, across the political spectrum, but also concerned not to jeopardise Switzerland's neutrality. So the government's rather two-faced policy of selling Germany tanks that Germany then passes on to Ukraine has broad support. - immigration. Amusing to hear that in Switzerland German doctors and nurses keep the hospitals running, as Filipinos do here (and in Germany I hear). There is a big divide, common in Europe, between Ukrainian refugees, who have been welcomed, and brown and black refugees, whose reception is much more split along political lines. - prices. That's the thing that most foreigners feel all the time now that the Franc is almost at parity with the pound, which means that everything is three or four times what it costs back home. But Switzerland is so small that most can mitigate it by crossing the border for their shopping, as workers go in the opposite direction.
I mean. Just look at the graphs. The first graph shows swedish sexual offences against women, including rape
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
If it's *all* about immigration, how do you explain why Norway (with very similar immigration trends) has seen these trends:
I won't argue that detailed point. I don't know the granular facts about Norway and Denmark v Sweden. Clearly - as you say - something has gone uniquely bad with immigration into Sweden. Nonetheless it IS immigration, mainly Muslim (AIUI)
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
I would suggest that - as I have said before - it is not to do with where the immigrants come from but how they are hanlded once they arrive in the country. There are very large numbers of immigrants arriving in Norway from the countries you mention. The difference is that the Norwegian Government has what you might call a 'tough love' system. Anyone wanting to settle in Norway has to undertake 300 hours (up from 200 hours when I worked there) of compulsory Norwegian language and culture lessons. Even if you are doing a couple of hours every single week that is still nearly 3 years of compulsory lessons.
And asylum seekers are not allowed to just live anywhere. To avoid the formation of ghettos or areas of dominant immigrant population they are told which county they have to live in for the first few years.
The system works. I have never been in a country where the immigrant population was so well integrated. And it is a ciculcular thing. Because the integration is so good the acceptance of large numbers of immigrants is very high amongst the Norwegian population in general. So the immigrants feel more welcome and so there is a much better relationship.
Of course I am sure it is nopt all plain sailing all the time and sadly you still get lunatics like Anders Brevik. But as I said at the time - indeed I think in conversation with you - it is ironic that he was railing against immigration when Norway is one of the most integrated countries in Europe - and thoroughly Norwegian.
Some societies are going to have to study Norway's success as a matter of some urgency.
Ukraine. Everybody is very pro-Ukrainian, across the political spectrum, but also concerned not to jeopardise Switzerland's neutrality. So the government's rather two-faced policy of selling Germany tanks that Germany then passes on to Ukraine has broad support...
They've sold a small number of (German) tanks back to Germany, on the understanding that they won't be used in Ukraine. And refused a recent request for a larger number
Comments
Just paid our first tranche of protection money to Sadiq - two-days' worth of ULEZ charge (£25) to cover our journey from Ilford to my brother's place just the other side of Basildon. We left yesterday and got back an hour or so ago.
The Tories have a healthy majority anyway, so its not as if "letting in" someone else changes the Parliamentary arithmetic.
If you win, then fantastic, and you can try to keep the seat next time.
If you lose, you've not lost anything.
Go for it.
Sorry OGH.
If I had to be pushed I'd say Tory hold. With Labour third. But the value is laying the LD's.
It is very complex. A rogue poll could have a lot of influence. Expect the Tory press have one prepared.
Thirty years ago was the Nordic Biker War. Of course gang related violence existed. They were launching anti tank missiles at each other
Over 8 games in this European round, lost six, drawn two. By an aggregate of 26-7.
And well done to the BMA. This is a battle to save the NHS. If any of you actually want to have a functioning NHS, now is the time to support them.
Not that massive swings are not interesting, who doesn't love a bit of drama after all, but despite lip service in those seats it was always clear who the main opponent to the Tories would be. This one I really doubt will be a close three way or anything, it's just not immediately clear who benefits.
My gut feeling is that Labour will now claim the mantle of principal opposition in the seat. Something in the general nature of reporting just doesn't feel like a LD triumph to me.
Here we go!
The Nordic Biker Wars resulted in nine people dead (7 bikers) over three years, and that stretched across Finland, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War
The reality today?
"Sweden hits record with 60 shot dead in 2022
Reuters
December 19, 2022"
One year alone, 60 dead, in just Sweden, and most of them gang related
Here:
"How Peaceful Sweden Became Europe’s Gun-Murder Capital
Scandinavia’s answer to Pablo Escobar orchestrates much of the growing violence from Turkey"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-peaceful-sweden-became-europes-gun-murder-capital-a5b500a7
This piffling whataboutery no longer works
In this one, I'd want to see a little more liquidity though, and a tighter overround.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SWE/sweden/murder-homicide-rate#:~:text=Sweden murder/homicide rate for,a 5.4% decline from 2017.
But I don't think the 1997 election result has any relevance.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/POL/poland/murder-homicide-rate
That allows the LibDems to accuse Labour of splitting the vote and opens up the usual Labour civil war of “too beige” vs “too socialist” vs “all the fault of someone in LOTO’s office who I don’t like” vs (contd. p94)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
The second graph shows Swedish immigration. The purple line is migration into Sweden
And the crazy bit is, the Swedes haven't actually taken that many asylum seekers compared to - say - Spain or Switzerland. And yet, they've managed to ghettoize them and completely fail any kind of assimilation, or fitting in with local norms.
I thangyou, I thangyou. Try the fish, etc
or
Rishi Sunak - PM from 2022-2024
It still seems an easy choice to me, from his perspective. Party prospects? Eh, why care about that, he might retain his seat but he'll be taking it easy on the backbenches for the next 3-5 years anyway.
The immigration starts, big time, in about 2012? The surge in rapes, homicides, begins soon after, and follows it with exactitude
Swedes are not dim. This is presumably why they have started voting for the far right Sweden Democrats, to the extent they are now propping up the Swedish government
Perhaps it is the source of the migrants?
Setting aside Poles (I don't think they are letting off bombs), most recent Swedish immigrants have been from Iraq, Iran, Syria and Somalia, it looks like. Perhaps this is a different profile to Norway? I genuinely dunno
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-december-2022/how-many-people-do-we-grant-protection-to
Bring back piracy to end global warming.
A manana
Could also go with how deadly ice cream is. Ice cream causes shark attacks after all.
What is your thesis, and how does the data compare to the thesis? Is your thesis that immigrants cause rapes?
Why is there a drop-off in rapes at the end of the chart? Is it because there's fewer immigrants in Sweden, if your thesis is that immigrants cause rapes?
Because no, there aren't fewer immigrants in Sweden. There may be somewhat fewer migrating in the final years, but the ones who already migrated are still there. There are more immigrants in Sweden in the final years than a couple of years earlier, but fewer rapes, so immigration now is reducing rapes by your logic.
You've correlated a first and second order variable and called them the same. It doesn't work that way.
And asylum seekers are not allowed to just live anywhere. To avoid the formation of ghettos or areas of dominant immigrant population they are told which county they have to live in for the first few years.
The system works. I have never been in a country where the immigrant population was so well integrated. And it is a ciculcular thing. Because the integration is so good the acceptance of large numbers of immigrants is very high amongst the Norwegian population in general. So the immigrants feel more welcome and so there is a much better relationship.
Of course I am sure it is nopt all plain sailing all the time and sadly you still get lunatics like Anders Brevik. But as I said at the time - indeed I think in conversation with you - it is ironic that he was railing against immigration when Norway is one of the most integrated countries in Europe - and thoroughly Norwegian.
So why has Sweden had terrible trouble, while Norway has had - essentially - none?
Basically: Norway (and to a lesser extent Denmark and Finland) puts a massive amount of emphasis on integration and getting immigrants speaking Norwegian. IIRC Mr Tyndall, when he was living there (and even as a highly paid oil industry worker) was required to take Norwegian lessons. They also go to a great deal of trouble to make sure that they don't let ghettos form. Basically, if you're a Syrian refugee, you probably won't find yourself with other Syrian refugees. But on the other hand, this seems to work: employment rates for Eritreans / Syrians / are pretty close to those for the native born.
Sweden, by contrast, welcomed everyone and then chucked them in grim housing estates in Lund and the outskirts of Stockholm, without any skills or any significant likelihood of integrating or even earning a living.
Operation code red now activated by the no 10 spin machine . It’s migrants fault , the French , leftie lawyers , the blob ....
This rancid government needs to be put out of its misery . The next GE can’t come soon enough .
Laying the LDs obviously also covers the not-inconsiderable chance of the Tories sneaking back in through the middle.
BBC More Or Less programme. Around 22 min, 50 secs.
"China has emitted more CO2 in the last 8 years than the UK has done since 1750".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001q0s6
- relations with the EU: most I discussed it with were happy with the status quo, but uneasy about the future. Most also expected that the EU would eventually find a way to renege on the thicket of bilateral agreements that Switzerland has and force it into a situation more like Norway's. No sign of this happening at the moment, though.
- economy: doing fairly well despite the very strong franc. But everybody watching the situation in Germany, which Switzerland tends to track, very closely.
- Brexit: this was followed suprisingly closely in Switzerland. Opinion followed broadly the same left-right split as in Britain, with my left-wing friends saying they can't believe we did it, and my conservative contacts wondering what took us so long.
- politics: unlike every other country I've visited recently, most people seem reasonably happy with the current government, which, as usual in Switzerland, is a broad coalition. After been untouchable twenty years ago, the conservative and anti-immigrant SVP is now seen as part of the establishment. There are no distinctive and compelling political issues at the moment.
- the army: there was an amusing and so very Swiss moment when my train crossed the border from Germany and at the first stop a couple of dozen soldiers, whose weekend training had just ended, got on in full camouflage with their rifles over their shoulders. In most countries I'd feel threated by that, but somehow in Switzerland I even felt slightly safer. Everybody seems to hate their military training, but nobody thinks it'll stop soon, and those that absolutely despise it can get out of it by claiming to be gay and having psychological problems. And when you ask them who exactly the army defends against, you never get a clear answer.
- Ukraine. Everybody is very pro-Ukrainian, across the political spectrum, but also concerned not to jeopardise Switzerland's neutrality. So the government's rather two-faced policy of selling Germany tanks that Germany then passes on to Ukraine has broad support.
- immigration. Amusing to hear that in Switzerland German doctors and nurses keep the hospitals running, as Filipinos do here (and in Germany I hear). There is a big divide, common in Europe, between Ukrainian refugees, who have been welcomed, and brown and black refugees, whose reception is much more split along political lines.
- prices. That's the thing that most foreigners feel all the time now that the Franc is almost at parity with the pound, which means that everything is three or four times what it costs back home. But Switzerland is so small that most can mitigate it by crossing the border for their shopping, as workers go in the opposite direction.
🇰🇷 South Korea fertility rate:
2015: 1.24
2016: 1.17
2017: 1.05
2018: 0.98
2019: 0.92
2020: 0.84
2021: 0.81
2022: 0.78
2023: 0.70
Of course being a very wealthy country probably helps, too.
They've sold a small number of (German) tanks back to Germany, on the understanding that they won't be used in Ukraine.
And refused a recent request for a larger number
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66671397
In both instances it will actually be about pay and jobs.