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Can the Tories get hope from opposition to ULEZ? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:




    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do feel sorry for anyone who has taken/is taking a British holiday this July/August

    My Cornish relatives say it’s the worst July they can remember. And some of them have seen a few

    Drizzle at the British seaside or fry in 45c temperatures on the Med while dodging forest fires?
    There are alternatives. Chernivtsi today. Absolutely perfect



    Indeed, as long as you avoid the risk of the occasional Russian missile or mortar shell!
    I’m not sure Chernivtsi has been hit even once during the entire war. I’ve seen a few sandbags but they look gestural. There is, however, the standard, striking absence of young men

    I’ve decided I’m coming back to do Odesa and Kyiv and maybe even a bit closer to the lines, if it wasn’t for a few friend & fam commitments I’d stay out here until September

    It’s ridiculously cheap, endlessly interesting, and the weather is generally lovely (albeit with some weird cold storms now and again). Missiles,
    Meh
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    3/10 for your reading.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Who do you think produces wealth? Or to put it another way, where do you think the wealth owned by the rich comes from?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    Keep the faith. You just need to wait for the ground to freeze or thaw. Or the F-16s or the Abrams. Or the ATACMS or the Mustard Gas.

    I've played 800 hours of Europa Universalis IV and here's why Ukraine will win. 1/43 🧵
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    I read that out of context. I thought @TimS had cracked or we had a decent troll for a change with a similar name.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
    Rereading that, it's perhaps a little too inviting.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Verstappen was nearly a second quicker, and didn't even look to be pushing hard.
    I've almost stopped watching this season. It is so boringly uncompetitive. I no longer plan even race day around F1 as I used to.
    Even the period of Mercedes domination at least had a couple of years of serious needle between Rosberg and Hamilton.
    This is like the worst years of the Schumacher era, where you pretty much know who’s going to win in advance.

    Thankfully there’s a good fight behind, with at least four teams capable of gettting a podium finish.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Found this on the inter webs

    Q - “I can't remember - is the Dromedary Camel the SI camel or the imperial camel?”

    A - “The imperial one, since that is the one Lawrence of Arabia rode in the movies. The Bactrian with the two humps is obviously designed by a committee, and is therefore the SI one.”
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Only 30 minutes to the cricket 👍
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Almost 50 years and no justice on contaminated blood. Is that really ‘at pace’, Rishi Sunak?
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/29/contaminated-blood-rishi-sunak-compensation-scheme
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Saturday morning is e-bukkake at that guy from the 77th who plays the balalaika and makes all of his mates laugh time. I think his name is Ванька.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Boris Johnson watches The Road: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Boris Johnson watches Newsnight: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Boris Johnson watches paint dry: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Etc


    Could you not have substituted "Boris Johnson" for "humans" in this context?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    I am fascinated how they distinguished between high intensity manatee sex and regular manatee sex. Shows my prejudices in presuming they could not switch up their style.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    A
    Cyclefree said:
    Lessons Will Be Learned.

    The Senior Management Team at GMP will shortly receive the Child Safe Guarding Award for their outstanding compliance to regulations and paperwork. The cost of increasing the size of the cabinets in which they keep such awards will be £26,456.75 (inc VAT)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited July 2023
    kle4 said:

    I am fascinated how they distinguished between high intensity manatee sex and regular manatee sex. Shows my prejudices in presuming they could not switch up their style.
    14.5 cm rip in his colon counts as high intensity sex.

    Sub 10cm and it counts as regular sex.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Cyclefree said:
    Maybe it's time to give that lawless anarchy thing a try. We can't seemingly afford to investigate or try most crimes anyway and it seems like the police are a bit preoccupied.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    boulay said:

    nico679 said:

    boulay said:

    nico679 said:

    This issue will have less impact in the GE as the Tory scaremongering meets the reality that drivers will know whether their car is compliant.

    Khan though does seem to have been very stubborn and really should have extended the time for people to get a compliant car.

    That’s fine in London which is strong Labour, the Tories will just say to the rest of the country that if Labour get in then this is coming to a small town near you soon.
    To use an obvious pun I’m not sure how much mileage you can get out of this issue. Labours messaging in Uxbridge was poor and surely they must have learnt lessons from that .
    Negative messaging is easier - “Vote Labour and pay £12.50 a week to drive your car to town. Under Labour’s Mayor Khan Londoners are having to aly £x to drive their car on the roads they’ve already paid their road tax for.” It’s disingenuous but if you live in Stoke etc and you start thinking, “yes, that Labour guy who runs London is charging everyone a fortune to drive to work or shop” it’s not only a financial burden but nanny state - don’t tell me I can’t drive to the shops, pick up my kids from school without paying more money.

    Whilst ULEZ is in reality a good thing it’s very easy to spin it as nanny state, green BS, extra tax. It happened in London under Labour, under Keir Starmer it’s coming to you.

    So journos say to SKS “are you rolling out ULEZ everywhere?” If he says no then Londoners ask why they have it but nowhere else, if he says yes he’s fucked and if he tries some BS maybe answer he looks shifty.
    shifty it will be
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    It's not small but huge. In a situation that can only be solved globally, and there being no global authority to implement things, at every level from globe to individual you can say:

    We need to do X and/but

    I wouldn't do it that way

    or

    My bit is OK, your's is the problem

    Just watch.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
    Objectively I don’t think so. We’ve moved left economically as a nation in the intervening years, and left socially too. The one area we’ve moved sharply to the right is on nationalism.
    What does moving left socially mean? It's not necessarily the same thing as becoming more libertarian.
    Keir's strategy is working given so many people are taken in by it.

    He is a typical north-London left-winger who is cosplaying one-nation. Not even very convincingly in my view as I think his views of the nation and the flag are the same as Emily Thornberry's; he just wants to win so he's playing the role he needs to.

    Meanwhile, he's actually got several leftwing policies he's already chalked up in his embryonic manifesto, which people seem quite happy to dismiss or ignore.

    He is no Tony Blair.
    He is crap but most people are sick of the Tories and will vote for a donkey against them
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Peck said:

    Saturday morning is e-bukkake at that guy from the 77th who plays the balalaika and makes all of his mates laugh time. I think his name is Ванька.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd4VoqK0f0

    At least 50% of the Telegram videos of people getting their limbs blown off are accompanied by this song. Vanka Vstanka is a Soviet era toy that looks like Therese Coffey and can't be knocked over. It only stands up, hence the hilarity of combining the song with a video of somebody with a bit of raggy bacon where their leg used to be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited July 2023

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    ULEZ extension has been badly promoted.

    ULEZ extension affects predominantly pre 2017 diesel cars and vans. So yes there will be losers. There might be winners too. Children not dying of respiratory failure to name but one.

    However current political objectors to an extension to ULEZ, which now appears to be extending to all of ULEZ tend to support (and or lead) parties which promote regressive taxation measures such as freezing tax allowance thresholds and reducing higher rate income tax rates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    The Ukrainian refugees at my daughters school, in the 6th form, are almost frightening in their determination. Their plan is to finish their A levels, then go back to join the Ukrainian Army.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    ULEZ extension has been badly promoted.

    It affects predominantly pre 2017 diesel cars and vans. So yes there will be losers. There might be winners too. Children not dying of respiratory failure to name but one.

    However current political objectors to an extension to ULEZ, which now appears to be extending to all of ULEZ tend to support (and or lead) parties which promote regressive taxation measures such as freezing tax allowance thresholds and reducing higher rate income tax rates.
    It's about time for those who don't support regressive taxation measures to get stuck into opposing ULEZ then.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    Point 3 (opponents being demonic, rather than people with a different view) is a newish feature to our politics. It has existed at times before, the end of Thatcher for example, but it is another legacy of Brexit and social media, that we take for granted that we are divided, when in reality we have more in common than we think.

    I am pretty sure support for ULEZ implemented properly could have been closer to 70% rather than 53% if complainers were listened to and some tweaks were made.

    That should be really important to ULEZ fans, as if we get a Tory mayor (Corbyn standing) or there is a non payment rebellion (already 70% of fines unpaid and system can't address those), ULEZ will fail.

    But it is more comforting to assume those who think differently are demonic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:




    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do feel sorry for anyone who has taken/is taking a British holiday this July/August

    My Cornish relatives say it’s the worst July they can remember. And some of them have seen a few

    Drizzle at the British seaside or fry in 45c temperatures on the Med while dodging forest fires?
    There are alternatives. Chernivtsi today. Absolutely perfect



    Indeed, as long as you avoid the risk of the occasional Russian missile or mortar shell!
    I’m not sure Chernivtsi has been hit even once during the entire war. I’ve seen a few sandbags but they look gestural. There is, however, the standard, striking absence of young men

    I’ve decided I’m coming back to do Odesa and Kyiv and maybe even a bit closer to the lines, if it wasn’t for a few friend & fam commitments I’d stay out here until September

    It’s ridiculously cheap, endlessly interesting, and the weather is generally lovely (albeit with some weird cold storms now and again). Missiles,
    Meh
    This place tempted me when I was planning a Ukraine holiday some years ago. Not so far from Chernivitsi either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianets-Podilskyi

    One day, maybe.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    On thread, what I do object to is Sadiq Khan's attempt to conflate ULEZ with action against climate change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/sadiq-khan-says-climate-crisis-more-important-than-party-politics-after-ulez-victory

    Ulez is about tackling air quality (NO2).
    Tackling global warming requires action against greenhouse gases (including CO2, but not NO2).

    Older diesel cars produce less greenhouse gases than the older petrol cars that most people will have in reality to switch to, as the only affordable alternative, because their mpg is far better.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    5 star, you will be banned shortly
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades
    This article is about Ukrainians in Poland, but it reflects something broader: Ukrainians are more entrepreneurial, more tech-savvy than most Europeans, because they have had to be


    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1684491302069477376?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    ULEZ extension has been badly promoted.

    It affects predominantly pre 2017 diesel cars and vans. So yes there will be losers. There might be winners too. Children not dying of respiratory failure to name but one.

    However current political objectors to an extension to ULEZ, which now appears to be extending to all of ULEZ tend to support (and or lead) parties which promote regressive taxation measures such as freezing tax allowance thresholds and reducing higher rate income tax rates.
    It's about time for those who don't support regressive taxation measures to get stuck into opposing ULEZ then.
    You are using the same formula someone here cited the other day about Farage's banking woes "I have a banking problem+ I am anti woke = banks are woke".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    No skill in that direction.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    One has to hope that the newly introduced extension of the scrappage scheme will make the extension of ULEZ seem less inequitable. On the new scrappage scheme, eligibility extends to all families receiving child benefit and to all small businesses registered in London and with up to 50 employees who are in line for ULEZ charges.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    "Stuttering offensive" is good.

    That was used by the BBC in their report.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
    :blush:
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
    Rereading that, it's perhaps a little too inviting.
    :hushed:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    No skill in that direction.
    All students breathe a sigh of relief
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited July 2023
    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    "Stuttering offensive" is good.

    That was used by the BBC in their report.
    As if the F***ing useless BBC would know anything about it , takes them years to spot dodgy employees. Just about their level of commentary.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    alednam said:

    One has to hope that the newly introduced extension of the scrappage scheme will make the extension of ULEZ seem less inequitable. On the new scrappage scheme, eligibility extends to all families receiving child benefit and to all small businesses registered in London and with up to 50 employees who are in line for ULEZ charges.

    The original scrappage scheme was £7,000 (for those cars that went into the zone at least once a week).

    Second hand car prices have increased signficantly since then.

    The current scrappage scheme is £2,000.

    I wonder why the original ULEZ implementation was far less controversial than this expansion?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
    :blush:
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If this article is correct, this is absolutely outrageous:

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/25/government-cancel-culture-the-department-for-education-speaker-blacklist/

    The DfE is full of people who are totally incompetent, stupid, liars, bullies and fools. We all knew that. but it appears they are also thin-skinned cowards and Orwellian control freaks as well.

    They are utterly unfit to manage the nation's educational affairs. The sooner they are all stood down and sacked the better.

    Obviously, the DfE are all those things, but it's wider government policy;

    The report quoted allies of the Cabinet Office minister Jacob Rees-Mogg as saying the due diligence policy, which took effect this week, was “very sensible” and should be implemented straight away, since “there have been far too many examples recently where essentially extremist speakers have been invited to speak to civil servants and staff networks”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/new-cabinet-office-rules-ban-speakers-who-have-criticised-government-policy
    That they are implementing a policy designed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, another who has always taken the view that rules only apply to other people, is if anything even worse.
    Bit much for HMG to complain about banks trawling social media to get rid of people they don't want as customers, when they do it themselves for people they don't want ...
    A government that includes Suella Braverman and Grant Shapps is full of stupid hypocrites?

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
    Well that post puts you on the naughty list.

    JRM is most likely cancelling your bank account as I write
    I do hope so, because then I can sue him, make a fortune and retire.
    I am not sure it works like that. Only for national treasures like Nigel. Unless of course you are a national treasure.
    I'm happy to make room for ydoethur on my pedestal.
    Rereading that, it's perhaps a little too inviting.
    :hushed:
    Be afraid ydoethur
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    No skill in that direction.
    You could be an OFSTED inspector instead, if it weren't for the fact you're obviously intelligent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:




    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do feel sorry for anyone who has taken/is taking a British holiday this July/August

    My Cornish relatives say it’s the worst July they can remember. And some of them have seen a few

    Drizzle at the British seaside or fry in 45c temperatures on the Med while dodging forest fires?
    There are alternatives. Chernivtsi today. Absolutely perfect



    Indeed, as long as you avoid the risk of the occasional Russian missile or mortar shell!
    I’m not sure Chernivtsi has been hit even once during the entire war. I’ve seen a few sandbags but they look gestural. There is, however, the standard, striking absence of young men

    I’ve decided I’m coming back to do Odesa and Kyiv and maybe even a bit closer to the lines, if it wasn’t for a few friend & fam commitments I’d stay out here until September

    It’s ridiculously cheap, endlessly interesting, and the weather is generally lovely (albeit with some weird cold storms now and again). Missiles,
    Meh
    This place tempted me when I was planning a Ukraine holiday some years ago. Not so far from Chernivitsi either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianets-Podilskyi

    One day, maybe.
    Hoping to go there in the next day or two. It has an incredible history
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    It's strange how Jerusalem is always played before a day's play when the opposition team doesn't have any music or anthem played for them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited July 2023

    On thread, what I do object to is Sadiq Khan's attempt to conflate ULEZ with action against climate change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/sadiq-khan-says-climate-crisis-more-important-than-party-politics-after-ulez-victory

    Ulez is about tackling air quality (NO2).
    Tackling global warming requires action against greenhouse gases (including CO2, but not NO2).

    Older diesel cars produce less greenhouse gases than the older petrol cars that most people will have in reality to switch to, as the only affordable alternative, because their mpg is far better.

    "Most people" won't have to switch to anything, since half of households do not have motor vehicles, and of the motor vehicles around 90% are already compliant.

    So switchers will be in the low single %s at max.

    On the other point, ULEZ in central London reduced traffic CO2 emissions by by 6% within a couple of years, so it is perhaps quite reasonable to consider it an intervention on climate change.
    https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-transformational-impact-expanded-ultra-low-emission-zone-so-far
  • Very poor by the Daily Mail, when they have the former PM as star columnist, that they wasted his talents writing some fluff about the Barbie film when he could have added real insight and value by sharing his thoughts and experiences on this story.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    No skill in that direction.
    You could be an OFSTED inspector instead, if it weren't for the fact you're obviously intelligent.
    Suggesting I could be an OFSTED inspector?!?

    Right. Pistols for 2 in Hyde Park. Breakfast for 1 at Simpsons.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    Spreadex are currently trading two cricket matches in play.

    England v Australia at the Oval
    Czechia v Greece in the 10 over a side European Cricket Series

    It is a funny old world.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    I agree, at least to an extent: it's not faltering, it's just very slow. Look at the headlines: "Andriivka has been freed!", celebrating an advance of 6km over two-three days. A front that moves at a tenth-of-a-mile a hour is going to take years to win. As to the running-out-of-men thing, it's a good point but countries if sufficiently motivated will absorb enormous losses: witness France in WWI. Will contribute further later in the day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    1) Too many capital letters
    2) Too much punctuation
    3) No use of “mate”
    4) No mention of vaccines, gays, trans
    5) No slightly off references to poster to give the impression you are part of The Gang.

    3/10
    You are hard to please Malmesbury, hopefully you are not a teacher.
    No skill in that direction.
    You could be an OFSTED inspector instead, if it weren't for the fact you're obviously intelligent.
    Suggesting I could be an OFSTED inspector?!?

    Right. Pistols for 2 in Hyde Park. Breakfast for 1 at Simpsons.
    Could the breakfast be at Morrisons instead? I've always preferred their full English.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    alednam said:

    One has to hope that the newly introduced extension of the scrappage scheme will make the extension of ULEZ seem less inequitable. On the new scrappage scheme, eligibility extends to all families receiving child benefit and to all small businesses registered in London and with up to 50 employees who are in line for ULEZ charges.

    The original scrappage scheme was £7,000 (for those cars that went into the zone at least once a week).

    Second hand car prices have increased signficantly since then.

    The current scrappage scheme is £2,000.

    I wonder why the original ULEZ implementation was far less controversial than this expansion?
    Child benefit seems to me to be a very strange criterion, since it has no link to household wealth.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    On thread, what I do object to is Sadiq Khan's attempt to conflate ULEZ with action against climate change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/sadiq-khan-says-climate-crisis-more-important-than-party-politics-after-ulez-victory

    Ulez is about tackling air quality (NO2).
    Tackling global warming requires action against greenhouse gases (including CO2, but not NO2).

    Older diesel cars produce less greenhouse gases than the older petrol cars that most people will have in reality to switch to, as the only affordable alternative, because their mpg is far better.

    Hillingdon Council’s response to ULEZ:

    The council also submitted its own response to the consultation opposing the extension of the zone on the grounds that a one-size-fits-all approach for the whole of London doesn't work and targeted action would be more meaningful.

    Other factors for the council's opposition include:

    - the impact on those unable to pay the charge and least able to replace older, non-compliant cars during the cost of living crisis

    - Hillingdon's lack of public transport services in comparison to central London

    - the impact on local businesses and services, including the recruitment and retention of workforces

    - poor air quality impacts are not boroughwide; it's more about raising money.

    https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/council-response#cookie-consents-updated


  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    In the medium-long term the war is a Total Catastrophe for Putin and Russia. He has unified the west and NATO, he has extended his border with NATO by 1000km next to Finland. He has ensured we all up our defence spending. He has fucked his gas and oil leverage over Europe. He has severed relations with the west - even Germany. The Eastern Europeans despise him. And now he’s alienating Africa with this grain embargo

    And most of all he has turned a previously “friendly” nation - into a bitter well armed enemy of 40m people right on his doorstep, with 3m more Ukrainians inside Russia who might do what?

    I’ve no doubt about all that in the long term. It’s the short term I have worries for Ukraine. I fear they might have to accept an armistice in the mud as they recover in men and material. Then round 2?

    Or Putin falls and the next guy accepts the invasion is a terrible, epochal error and sues for a truce

    🙏
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    What can they do? It's impossible to pursue and apprehend a motorcyclist without a high risk of killing them. If the filth did start doing this and killed a few chavs we and our Internet service providers would have to suffer through a Cyclefree header on the subject longer than À la recherche du temps perdu. Everyone loses.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    The hatred of Russia in almost all Eastern Europe is a sight to behold. I suppose it’s inevitable if you have a brutal empire, then lose it, but instead of acknowledging a bit of guilt and attempting to make friends with your former colonies, commonwealth style, you noisily covet your lost territories and repeatedly tell them they’re not real countries.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Very poor by the Daily Mail, when they have the former PM as star columnist, that they wasted his talents writing some fluff about the Barbie film when he could have added real insight and value by sharing his thoughts and experiences on this story.
    It's especially disappointing when you think of all the awesome puns they missed out on how he had a full buffet. Or died after a finger* from Buffet. Or finished with hot Buffet.

    *that doesn't quite work due to manatees not having fingers, of course.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    What can they do? It's impossible to pursue and apprehend a motorcyclist without a high risk of killing them. If the filth did start doing this and killed a few chavs we and our Internet service providers would have to suffer through a Cyclefree header on the subject longer than À la recherche du temps perdu. Everyone loses.
    Follow them by drone, so they don't notice.

    And then arrest them at home and seize the bike.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    I agree, at least to an extent: it's not faltering, it's just very slow. Look at the headlines: "Andriivka has been freed!", celebrating an advance of 6km over two-three days. A front that moves at a tenth-of-a-mile a hour is going to take years to win. As to the running-out-of-men thing, it's a good point but countries if sufficiently motivated will absorb enormous losses: witness France in WWI. Will contribute further later in the day.
    Look at the Romans after Cannae.

    Ukraine can't win outright (or something approaching it) without increased and ongoing support, but if they get that they appear to have the unified will. Hence the Russian hope slow progress and apocalyptic threats will cause the support to slow. It might yet work.

    Would be nice if they displayed a bit more incompetence though, but sadly it appears they do have people who learn things.
  • On thread, what I do object to is Sadiq Khan's attempt to conflate ULEZ with action against climate change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/sadiq-khan-says-climate-crisis-more-important-than-party-politics-after-ulez-victory

    Ulez is about tackling air quality (NO2).
    Tackling global warming requires action against greenhouse gases (including CO2, but not NO2).

    Older diesel cars produce less greenhouse gases than the older petrol cars that most people will have in reality to switch to, as the only affordable alternative, because their mpg is far better.

    Actually, nitrous oxide is a greenhouse gas - the third most important after carbon dioxide and methane. But you are probably right that the increase in CO2 emissions resulting from the switch away from diesels will more than make up for the reduction in nitrous oxide emissions from a climate perspective.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
    Green policies aren't right-wing but they're often authoritarian.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:




    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do feel sorry for anyone who has taken/is taking a British holiday this July/August

    My Cornish relatives say it’s the worst July they can remember. And some of them have seen a few

    Drizzle at the British seaside or fry in 45c temperatures on the Med while dodging forest fires?
    There are alternatives. Chernivtsi today. Absolutely perfect



    Indeed, as long as you avoid the risk of the occasional Russian missile or mortar shell!
    I’m not sure Chernivtsi has been hit even once during the entire war. I’ve seen a few sandbags but they look gestural. There is, however, the standard, striking absence of young men

    I’ve decided I’m coming back to do Odesa and Kyiv and maybe even a bit closer to the lines, if it wasn’t for a few friend & fam commitments I’d stay out here until September

    It’s ridiculously cheap, endlessly interesting, and the weather is generally lovely (albeit with some weird cold storms now and again). Missiles,
    Meh
    This place tempted me when I was planning a Ukraine holiday some years ago. Not so far from Chernivitsi either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianets-Podilskyi

    One day, maybe.
    Hoping to go there in the next day or two. It has an incredible history
    I don't know if you have read either "The Good Soldier Svejk" by Hasek or "The World of Yesterday," by Zweig. Both have a real flavour of late Hapsburg Austria-Hungary, with sections set in Galicia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    What can they do? It's impossible to pursue and apprehend a motorcyclist without a high risk of killing them. If the filth did start doing this and killed a few chavs we and our Internet service providers would have to suffer through a Cyclefree header on the subject longer than À la recherche du temps perdu. Everyone loses.
    Follow them by drone, so they don't notice.

    And then arrest them at home and seize the bike.
    Think American. Anti-material rifle…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    The hatred of Russia in almost all Eastern Europe is a sight to behold. I suppose it’s inevitable if you have a brutal empire, then lose it, but instead of acknowledging a bit of guilt and attempting to make friends with your former colonies, commonwealth style, you noisily covet your lost territories and repeatedly tell them they’re not real countries.
    We're not exactly fantastic at dealing with post imperial decline, but perhaps most of our former territories being a long way away helped us reorient. Russia looks over the border and sees many former possessions doing great, can't touch most of them, so concentrates on destroying those it can.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Thing is, the cyclists I'm talking about won't, because they don't have licence plates (or if they do, they're cloned) so can't be identified (as Dura Ace has pointed out).

    Unless you do a major policing operation to identify them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    that doesn't quite work due to manatees not having fingers, of course.

    But they do have fingernails (at least some do), although dugongs don't. It's a genetic fossil from the days when they used to have fingers. As a rough rule of thumb, manatees are dugong drag queens who emigrated to the States to make their fortune.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHSe_9ahp8

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    In the medium-long term the war is a Total Catastrophe for Putin and Russia. He has unified the west and NATO, he has extended his border with NATO by 1000km next to Finland. He has ensured we all up our defence spending. He has fucked his gas and oil leverage over Europe. He has severed relations with the west - even Germany. The Eastern Europeans despise him. And now he’s alienating Africa with this grain embargo

    And most of all he has turned a previously “friendly” nation - into a bitter well armed enemy of 40m people right on his doorstep, with 3m more Ukrainians inside Russia who might do what?

    I’ve no doubt about all that in the long term. It’s the short term I have worries for Ukraine. I fear they might have to accept an armistice in the mud as they recover in men and material. Then round 2?

    Or Putin falls and the next guy accepts the invasion is a terrible, epochal error and sues for a truce

    🙏
    Next but one maybe. Good chance a replacement for Putin is more aggressive?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Thing is, the cyclists I'm talking about won't, because they don't have licence plates (or if they do, they're cloned) so can't be identified (as Dura Ace has pointed out).

    Unless you do a major policing operation to identify them.
    It is a recipe for disaster as cyclists overtake drivers in 20 mph zones
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
    Green policies aren't right-wing but they're often authoritarian.
    And often the complete opposite in terms of local action. Green politics do not fit neatly on a left right spectrum nor a libertarian-authoritarian axis.

    What they do recognise is that society and planet wide action is needed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Interesting comment on the VoteUK forum.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/16985/spanish-general-election-2023?page=13

    "Looks like the PSOE has lost their last seat in Madrid to the PP. This means they’d need Junts to vote yes rather than abstain, and surely confirms new elections.

    Edit - sounds like a recount. Must be extremely tight.

    Edit 2 - apparently lost due to a (not unexpected) Sumar overperformance."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    MattW said:

    alednam said:

    One has to hope that the newly introduced extension of the scrappage scheme will make the extension of ULEZ seem less inequitable. On the new scrappage scheme, eligibility extends to all families receiving child benefit and to all small businesses registered in London and with up to 50 employees who are in line for ULEZ charges.

    The original scrappage scheme was £7,000 (for those cars that went into the zone at least once a week).

    Second hand car prices have increased signficantly since then.

    The current scrappage scheme is £2,000.

    I wonder why the original ULEZ implementation was far less controversial than this expansion?
    Child benefit seems to me to be a very strange criterion, since it has no link to household wealth.
    £250m outstanding in fines vs £25m spent on scrappage scheme......
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
    Green policies aren't right-wing but they're often authoritarian.
    And often the complete opposite in terms of local action. Green politics do not fit neatly on a left right spectrum nor a libertarian-authoritarian axis.

    What they do recognise is that society and planet wide action is needed.
    I think we all recognise that but planet wide action is the problem
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson watches The Road: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Boris Johnson watches Newsnight: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Boris Johnson watches paint dry: It's a rallying cry for humans to have more babies!
    Etc


    He cannot see a blonde that he doesn't want to impregnate.
    I thought Michael Fabricant was looking worried!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    The hatred of Russia in almost all Eastern Europe is a sight to behold. I suppose it’s inevitable if you have a brutal empire, then lose it, but instead of acknowledging a bit of guilt and attempting to make friends with your former colonies, commonwealth style, you noisily covet your lost territories and repeatedly tell them they’re not real countries.
    We're not exactly fantastic at dealing with post imperial decline, but perhaps most of our former territories being a long way away helped us reorient. Russia looks over the border and sees many former possessions doing great, can't touch most of them, so concentrates on destroying those it can.
    The Russian Government, quite literally, want the Empire back. At gun point is entirely OK with them

    This seems weird and wacky, because to us, this is thinking from over a hundred years ago.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades
    Interesting. I suspected the position was currently like that and might remain like that for a while. There's also the history of slaughter, barbarism, and famine in the region, which surely gives added force to strong propaganda by the government when it's connected with war, given also the apocalypticism that is relished in all kinds of Orthodoxy. (Let's hope Belarus doesn't get sucked in.) There are no atheists in foxholes. Perhaps many who were surprised in 2014 have grown less and less surprised.

    Then again a lot of the rich have left, as happens in most wars, and there's a ban on adult men under 60 leaving the country and there don't have to be rules against little boys stealing apples unless some little boys would otherwise steal apples. Up to 60% of Ukrainians have refused SARSCoV2 vaccination (a significantly higher rate than in Russia) which however one reads it shows there's a widespread scepticism about the honesty of those who run the state.

    Putin may have caused the language that Servant of the People was made in to change to Ukrainian, but he's 70. I doubt he'll make it to 75 in office.

    Do you speak Ukrainian or Russian or are you dependent on interpreting when you meet people who only speak those languages?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Thing is, the cyclists I'm talking about won't, because they don't have licence plates (or if they do, they're cloned) so can't be identified (as Dura Ace has pointed out).

    Unless you do a major policing operation to identify them.
    It is a recipe for disaster as cyclists overtake drivers in 20 mph zones
    Well, at the moment what's happening with them is a disaster anyway.

    So I'm not sure that's going to make a lot of practical difference in that aspect.

    There are other very good reasons for thinking the 20mph limit isn't going to help - not least, without fixed speed cameras nobody will obey it so it will bring low speed limits where they are useful (like outside schools at the start and end of the day) into disrepute.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Should've used lube. A valuable life lesson for Mail readers.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Why? They don’t comply with any other rules of the road.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
    Green policies aren't right-wing but they're often authoritarian.
    And often the complete opposite in terms of local action. Green politics do not fit neatly on a left right spectrum nor a libertarian-authoritarian axis.

    What they do recognise is that society and planet wide action is needed.
    Not locally they don't, as you partly note, they often galvanise local society to oppose action like solar farms and the like.

    They talk about society and planet wide action, like any other party they recognise the need for it far more inconsistently. As such I think plaudits for 'recognising' would be over generous.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Electric bikes need to be regulated as mopeds, as in effect thar is what they are. Legitimate users will not be troubled, but the anti-social hoons will be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Peck said:

    On topic (are you sure - ed.?) - I think the lesson from Uxbridge (and also the Green evisceration on Brighton Council) is not that people are fundamentally opposed to improvements to the environment - as seen in the FT JB Murdoch graphs above - the UK is less polarised than US/Germany and Con voters are more pro-environment than many of their left wing peers in other countries - but what people won't thole is having solutions imposed upon them without adequate consultation. In Brighton it was cycle lanes (and virtue signalling instead of basic competence), in Uxbridge ULEZ.

    Let's hope the parties learn the correct lessons, rather than the wrong ones. With Labour's u-turn evolution on trans/women's rights issues we may be dodging a damaging culture war which has descended into an unholy mess in the USA - lets hope "the environment" also avoids a similar fate.

    There is a small but growing problem in environmental policy.

    1) we need to do X for the environment.
    2) the policy we have chosen is Y
    3) if you oppose Y you are demonic

    This will cause problems down the line. Lots of people aren’t impressed with the *implementation* of ULEZ, but support ULEZ.

    I am in a position where I get all the benefit of ULEZ, but (directly) pay nothing for implantation. People considerably less well off than me are paying. This seems inequitable.
    Isn't that always the case, though? Being rich gives you more options and padding because that's the point of being rich.

    One of the discomforting things about ULEZ expansion is that it makes something implicit explicit.
    You get the impression that if the Poll Tax was reintroduced tomorrow, as an environmental tax, there would be people in the left demanding that tanks be used to enforce it.
    That's a very astute comment.

    The same could be said if we imagined there was still a lot of coalmining and a government wanted to shut it down. Most of the left (including anarchists) would support the government. They would echo push the official line about dirt, cleanliness, and stopping the Earth turning on its axis climate changing.

    Green is far right. It always has been far right. I f***ing detest the greens. Richard Walther Darré says hello. See also Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth, English Mistery, when and why and by whom the Green party was started in West Germany, and so on. Underneath, the message is that it's too late for class struggle so we call for a strong government to take everything in hand - in cooperation with big business of course - and everyone should mobilise to support it, or else you're an enemy of the people and an agent of filth and planetary destruction.
    Green policies aren't right-wing but they're often authoritarian.
    And often the complete opposite in terms of local action. Green politics do not fit neatly on a left right spectrum nor a libertarian-authoritarian axis.

    What they do recognise is that society and planet wide action is needed.
    This can end up as “This is too important to leave to democracy. We need implementation by fiat with no opposition possible.”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023
    So many things today seem to take on a quasi-religious tone, maybe in order to make up for the relative collapse in established religions. So even something like Bazball takes on a religious feel, and people who refuse to believe in it are almost treated like heretics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Electric bikes need to be regulated as mopeds, as in effect thar is what they are. Legitimate users will not be troubled, but the anti-social hoons will be.
    But that's the point. Already, most of them are. E.g. the bike involved in that crash in Cardiff.

    But the regulations are not being enforced.
  • ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Who's going to police it? The feds don't respond to burglaries around here, so how are they going to nab a cyclist doing 25 in a 20?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Dull on here this morning - wine and weather.

    Where's our regular Saturday morning guest contributor to liven things up?

    Didn't they do their shift one evening this week? Even Russian trolls want a bit of a holiday.

    Things are looking increasingly difficult on the stuttering Ukrainian counterattack. Sources within the armed forces report that almost the entire fleet of Western tanks supplied with much fanfare earlier this year have been destroyed. Ukraine is losing soldiers at a rate of 10 for every Russian soldier. Meanwhile any hope of making significant advances in drying up.

    The West will need to start facing the grim truth soon - it’s been pouring billions of dollars into a losing battle and taxpayers are starting to notice. Within a month or two Ukraine will be out of weapons and artillery. NATO will need to accept the inevitable and abandon its proxy war. Perhaps then the West can start focusing on the very real crises at home including poisoning from Covid vaccines and the societal degradation from homosexual propaganda.

    How did I do?
    That’s very good. Not least coz some of it is unfortunately true. Read between the lines and the counter attack is faltering. I don’t see a breakthrough - and nor do Ukrainians I talk to. It’s a stalemate. And Ukraine is running out of men
    How long has Zelensky got?

    I fear he might have a while yet, given that the population who once voted for braidy-haired Star Wars girl voted a generation later for the Lowly Teacher character in Servant of the People.

    Have you met anybody in the west of the country who says f*** the eastern territories because they're not worth our lives? Many in GB outside of sectarian areas of Glasgow, Manchester, etc., said that about Northern Ireland.
    No. I’ve met nothing but universal determination to pursue the war. And total hatred of Putin

    Now I’m sure there is an element of groupthink here. And of course basic patriotism. Their young men are dying and losing limbs. Who is going to stand up and say This is pointless or Let’s make peace

    However their single minded pugnacity is absolute. It seems to me. Every missile and bomb makes them angrier

    They also seem to have accepted that the war is going to be brutally expensive in human lives - but the alternative is worse. Rule by Russia. So they will keep fighting to the last Ukrainian

    They accept the war won’t end soon. “Another year or two at least” is what they say, with a fatalistic shrug

    It’s a fascinating mindset and highly impressive. Putin has taken on an entire nation and unified it in hatred of him and his people. So he cannot win. Even if he “wins” the Ukrainians will be back for revenge for decades


    He has soiled any possibility of good relations for decades. Even if he holds on to the current lines his is a defeat.

    "Denazification" (regime change) total failure.

    "Demilitarisation" has only happened to Russian forces. Ukraine is now at least Russias equal militarily, and arguably evolving into the most effective military in Europe, albeit with a hotch-potch of NATO systems.
    The hatred of Russia in almost all Eastern Europe is a sight to behold. I suppose it’s inevitable if you have a brutal empire, then lose it, but instead of acknowledging a bit of guilt and attempting to make friends with your former colonies, commonwealth style, you noisily covet your lost territories and repeatedly tell them they’re not real countries.
    We're not exactly fantastic at dealing with post imperial decline, but perhaps most of our former territories being a long way away helped us reorient. Russia looks over the border and sees many former possessions doing great, can't touch most of them, so concentrates on destroying those it can.
    Yes we’re both divorced ex husbands. Britain generally manages, we have the kids over every other weekend, there’s the occasional bit of passive aggressive tension and quibbles over maintenance payments but people are getting on with life.

    Russia on the other hand is the jealous ex, determined to destroy her if he can’t have her. Turning up on the doorstep drunk from time to time and getting slapped with non molestation orders. Threatening the new boyfriend in an increasingly embarrassing way.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Good morning

    With Wales having a 20mph limit, down from 30mph, in September I assume cyclists will also have to comply which could be interesting
    Thing is, the cyclists I'm talking about won't, because they don't have licence plates (or if they do, they're cloned) so can't be identified (as Dura Ace has pointed out).

    Unless you do a major policing operation to identify them.
    It is a recipe for disaster as cyclists overtake drivers in 20 mph zones
    The scariest part of driving in London now is when being overtaken on both the inside and outside by different cyclists at the same time, which never used to be a thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Sunak wanted to do something useful, rather than randomly obsessing about small boats, how about a major nationwide crackdown on illegal motorcycling especially by underage cyclists?

    So we don't get any more tragedies like this:

    Young girl killed in Walsall hit-and-run was mum's 'star'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974

    I think that would both be popular and very effective at improving people's lives in a way they might notice.

    At least those idiots in Cardiff only killed themselves.

    Also, it would mean the police were also doing something useful, rather than spending their time covering up for the sick perverts in their ranks.

    The combination of “electric bikes” that have the looks, acceleration, performance up to 40-50 of a motorcycle, no safety gear and young men will soon be reaping a harvest, I reckon. The cheap Chinese batteries will add to the fun, when they are smashed in a crash…

    Around the area where I live, they are using pedestrian areas for their delivery runs. In addition, the new bike lanes are built with both directions together. Each lane 3 foot or so wide.
    Electric bikes need to be regulated as mopeds, as in effect thar is what they are. Legitimate users will not be troubled, but the anti-social hoons will be.
    Which will require licensing and registration for *all* bikes, I reckon. Tons of these are soup-ups done at home. Quite a few are from unpowered bikes.

    Won’t happen until the death toll gets high enough, of course.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:




    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do feel sorry for anyone who has taken/is taking a British holiday this July/August

    My Cornish relatives say it’s the worst July they can remember. And some of them have seen a few

    Drizzle at the British seaside or fry in 45c temperatures on the Med while dodging forest fires?
    There are alternatives. Chernivtsi today. Absolutely perfect



    Indeed, as long as you avoid the risk of the occasional Russian missile or mortar shell!
    I’m not sure Chernivtsi has been hit even once during the entire war. I’ve seen a few sandbags but they look gestural. There is, however, the standard, striking absence of young men

    I’ve decided I’m coming back to do Odesa and Kyiv and maybe even a bit closer to the lines, if it wasn’t for a few friend & fam commitments I’d stay out here until September

    It’s ridiculously cheap, endlessly interesting, and the weather is generally lovely (albeit with some weird cold storms now and again). Missiles,
    Meh
    This place tempted me when I was planning a Ukraine holiday some years ago. Not so far from Chernivitsi either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianets-Podilskyi

    One day, maybe.
    Hoping to go there in the next day or two. It has an incredible history
    I don't know if you have read either "The Good Soldier Svejk" by Hasek or "The World of Yesterday," by Zweig. Both have a real flavour of late Hapsburg Austria-Hungary, with sections set in Galicia.
    I haven’t; I should. These days I don’t really like novels, is the problem!

    We were discussing great art and books about the old Austro-Hungarian world the other day, and I mentioned Gregor von Rezzori’s “fiction-memoir” Memoirs of an Anti Semite

    It’s a fabulous book and I had the pleasure of meeting Von Rezzori at a literary party many years ago. He’s dead now. He was very funny

    Anyway last night as I was googling I discovered that Von Rezzori was brought up here: in Chernovtsi. And the town in the book is a very lightly fictionalised version of this here city

    One of my favourite books! Serendipitous indeed
This discussion has been closed.