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Can the Tories get hope from opposition to ULEZ? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    This is a weird story
    What gives ?

    The Mystery of How Tim Scott’s Campaign Is Spending Its Millions
    Most of the money spent by the senator’s presidential campaign has gone to newly formed companies whose addresses are Staples stores in suburban strip malls.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/28/us/politics/tim-scott-money-campaign-funds.html
    … Campaign finance experts said that among increasingly brazen moves by political candidates, Mr. Scott’s new financial disclosures stood out as exhibit A...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited July 2023

    TimS said:

    Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne?

    They're already here:

    While it may be too soon to say there is a corner of England that is forever France, there is certainly a Gallic thrust towards coming over here and buying up our vineyards.

    And with good reason, say the experts, with England’s southern counties being in the vanguard of a boom in sparkling wine production that rivals the best champagne made 100 miles across the Channel.

    Leading champagne houses have been snapping up land in southern England, where the chalky soils – similar to those in northern France, and changing climate are yielding top-class bubbly. And the production of top quality red wines may not be far behind.


    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/heatwave-english-england-sparkling-wine-boom-french-champagne-uk-vineyards-1814496
    Taittinger’s vineyard is about 10 minutes drive from mine.

    But that doesn’t explain the attitude of the masses. Which is just weirdly open minded and respectful. I do wonder if some of the downright scary canicules of recent years have got them more focused on climate change than some others. And unlike Italy there’s nowhere else obvious to their north.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246
    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Food for thought...

    https://twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/1684958948443447296

    Michael Rosen 💙💙🎓🎓
    @MichaelRosenYes
    7/ Meanwhile, as the actors' strike is telling us, it can't be long before we could go to a movie about a long-dead guy like Oppenheimer and AI has reconstructed him from photos and film of the time. Oppenheimer played by Oppenheimer!

    I haven't seen the film yet, and no particular desire to see Oppenheimer, but isn't part of their success down to conventional special effects rather than AI?
    Unfortunately, yes. Nolan is famous for doing everything in camera if and when he can, which is why his films look really real. But it can lead to weirdness: the Dunkirk in "Dunkirk" is obviously 21st century Dunkirk, for example. In "Oppenheimer" he recreates the nuke with conventional explosives, and with the best will in the world the explosion is obviously *not* a real nuke.
    I'm sure you spotted this error...


    A 50-state solution.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Food for thought...

    https://twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/1684958948443447296

    Michael Rosen 💙💙🎓🎓
    @MichaelRosenYes
    7/ Meanwhile, as the actors' strike is telling us, it can't be long before we could go to a movie about a long-dead guy like Oppenheimer and AI has reconstructed him from photos and film of the time. Oppenheimer played by Oppenheimer!

    I haven't seen the film yet, and no particular desire to see Oppenheimer, but isn't part of their success down to conventional special effects rather than AI?
    Unfortunately, yes. Nolan is famous for doing everything in camera if and when he can, which is why his films look really real. But it can lead to weirdness: the Dunkirk in "Dunkirk" is obviously 21st century Dunkirk, for example. In "Oppenheimer" he recreates the nuke with conventional explosives, and with the best will in the world the explosion is obviously *not* a real nuke.
    I'm sure you spotted this error...


    I didn't, in the sense that I haven't seen the film (the nuke scene is on youtube). Although I think I may have spotted that the number of stars on the flag was wrong. :)

    Before Alaska and Hawaii joined there were only 48 stars on the flag - 6 rows of eight - not 50, which was 4 rows of 5 and 5 rows of 6 alternating.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    Thirteen years, in one fairly recent case -1994-2007.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Peck said:

    If they want to hit the drivers of ~10% of cars for being dirty polluters, why don't they do it using a higher rate of road tax?

    It's as if they get off on ringing cities with signs saying "You are now entering ... Zone".

    You're missing the point - it's not about hitting the drivers, it's about reducing the number of polluting car journeys in London.

    Car sharing, using public transport, wfh, replacing a polluting car with a ULEZ-compliant model, these are all ways people can reduce pollution and reduce any ULEZ charges they might face.
    But if you pay, you can still drive and thereby NOT reduce pollution!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir? The jury’s out. I have a horrible feeling he may be going on a journey. The journey that many middle aged men go on. I hope not.

    Davey though. Rock solid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne?

    They're already here:

    While it may be too soon to say there is a corner of England that is forever France, there is certainly a Gallic thrust towards coming over here and buying up our vineyards.

    And with good reason, say the experts, with England’s southern counties being in the vanguard of a boom in sparkling wine production that rivals the best champagne made 100 miles across the Channel.

    Leading champagne houses have been snapping up land in southern England, where the chalky soils – similar to those in northern France, and changing climate are yielding top-class bubbly. And the production of top quality red wines may not be far behind.


    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/heatwave-english-england-sparkling-wine-boom-french-champagne-uk-vineyards-1814496
    Taittinger’s vineyard is about 10 minutes drive from mine.

    But that doesn’t explain the attitude of the masses. Which is just weirdly open minded and respectful. I do wonder if some of the downright scary canicules of recent years have got them more focused on climate change than sone others. And unlike Italy there’s nowhere else obvious to their north.
    The New World stuff made it pretty clear that sneering at other producers is for morons.

    There is only one test for wine. Do you like it?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir? The jury’s out. I have a horrible feeling he may be going on a journey. The journey that many middle aged men go on. I hope not.

    Davey though. Rock solid.
    Davey's rocks are between his ears.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited July 2023
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
    Objectively I don’t think so. We’ve moved left economically as a nation in the intervening years, and left socially too. The one area we’ve moved sharply to the right is on nationalism.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    If it all goes wrong for Keir and the expected LAB government doesn't materialise at the next GE, then Wes will win the subsequent leadership contest and lead LAB to victory for sure in 2029 ish.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    If it all goes wrong for Keir and the expected LAB government doesn't materialise at the next GE, then Wes will win the subsequent leadership contest and lead LAB to victory for sure in 2029 ish.
    And if a Starmer government swiftly becomes very unpopular, Streeting will also be ready to replace him then too
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To be fair, the campaign against ULEZ, led, not so much by the Conservative Party, but by elements in the media who seem a) resistant to the notion of climate change and b) very hostile to Sadiq Khan, has been a very successful example of how to engender fear and hostility among groups, many of whom won't be in any way affected by the coming of ULEZ.

    The Conservatives have, quite late in the day and after being in Boris Johnson's time quite supportive of the concept, seized on ULEZ as the only stick with which they can beat Labour. After all, campaigning on their record in Government sounds like a really good move, doesn't it?

    Since the U&SR by-election, Khan has been forced into putting more into the scrappage scheme but today's legal victory probably means it'll come to Outer London in the autumn - whether it will have much salience after introduction remains to be seen - it hasn't in Inner London.

    As more people come to realise they won't be affected, it's going to be harder for the Conservatives to maintain the momentum of opposition .

    There is evidence of an online campaign against ulez that was probably not funded by the media. Specifically, that genuine anti-ulez content was amplified by a network of fake re-tweeters.
    https://twitter.com/valent_projects/status/1684591764160536578
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
    Objectively I don’t think so. We’ve moved left economically as a nation in the intervening years, and left socially too. The one area we’ve moved sharply to the right is on nationalism.
    We are still right economically on where we were under Heath certainly, left socially maybe and yes right nationally of where we were under both Heath and Major + Clarke
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)
    That was my impression too - but the EU still dominates UK wine imports, and of that, France & Italy:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/303519/uk-wine-imports-value-by-continent/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)
    That was my impression too - but the EU still dominates UK wine imports, and of that, France & Italy:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/303519/uk-wine-imports-value-by-continent/
    Value yes. IIRC on volume it's different.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)
    That was my impression too - but the EU still dominates UK wine imports, and of that, France & Italy:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/303519/uk-wine-imports-value-by-continent/
    Australia really shot itself in the foot in the 1990s and 2000s. Same mistake German hock, Beaujolais, muscadet and Lambrusco made before them. Overproduction and brand debasement. It’s taken years for Australia to regain some prestige.

    And Prosecco. That’s a bubble waiting to burst spectacularly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    Sweden - the state systembolaget. The closest in the wine world to our NHS. They have an incredible, and very high quality (but painfully expensive) range.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)
    That was my impression too - but the EU still dominates UK wine imports, and of that, France & Italy:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/303519/uk-wine-imports-value-by-continent/
    Value yes. IIRC on volume it's different.
    Yes. By volume it is Oz


    “Data published jointly by Vinexpo and IWSR shows that Australia exports the most still wine to the UK, by volume. In 2016, the UK imported 24.5 million nine litre cases of Australian wines, equivalent to nearly 300 million bottles of wine.”
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Ulez again. Again! For crying out loud.

    The extension will be in force in a month then suddenly most of those who have been told by the Tories they are going to be paying £52,000 extra a year to drive to Sainsbury’s will realise that that their cara are compliant and they will be paying £0 extra.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    As it happens I am lying here in Bukovina, Ukraine, drinking an absolutely delicious Moldovan red. Purcari 1827

    On the nose it comes across like pomegranate vinegar. It tastes like rough leathery nectar. Delicious

    It is also pretty much the best wine you can buy in Chernovtsi. £8
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited July 2023

    ….
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    FPT
    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    Thanks.

    The strangest thing, I found, was that the standard measure for wine, at least where I went, is 100ml. Or, as they love to write it 1dl.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    The Swiss make excellent wine and yes the cost is an issue for export - the cost of anything in Switzerland is obvs ridiculous - but it’s one of those things where they just buy it all. It’s generally wonderful at all price ranges if you live there and are paid there.

    The “caves ouvertes” would be an experience for a British journalist working for a quality journal. A long weekend where all the vineyards are open for tastings - you can choose an area of vineyards which you can hop by bike, drink for free or find a vineyard or chateau that works for you then eat and buy bottles at cost and drink in the grounds, it might be one where there is a dj playing dance remixes of The Cure or Swiss country, or go on the “Irish bus” where all the Paddies who work for the UN go round vineyards on a coach from 9am. Either are wonderful.

    Swiss wine is very good. Worth paying for when you get it but it’s never going to take over the world because the price.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    My vines in their summer regalia last week


    Australian too, I see.
    Yes weird that. Have deleted until I can figure out what the hell is going on.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    All the hype about Oppenheimer and bloody Barbie (Barbie?!) has put me off watching either film.

    And Cillian Murphy was also in Peaky Blinders, which was largely overrated crap.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    The Spectator 'How Labour won back Britain’s millionaires'.

    '...Last year represented a breakthrough: the first year since records began that Labour was given more by private donors and businesses (£6.4 million) than by the unions (£5.1 million). It was also the highest amount the party has raised from private sources in a single year since 2008.'
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-labour-won-back-britains-millionaires/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    As it happens I am lying here in Bukovina, Ukraine, drinking an absolutely delicious Moldovan red. Purcari 1827

    On the nose it comes across like pomegranate vinegar. It tastes like rough leathery nectar. Delicious

    It is also pretty much the best wine you can buy in Chernovtsi. £8

    Notably the backbone of the skilled migrant viticultural labour force in England and much of Northern Europe is made up of Moldovans and Romanians. Massive skills base.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    All the hype about Oppenheimer and bloody Barbie (Barbie?!) has put me off watching either film.

    And Cillian Murphy was also in Peaky Blinders, which was largely overrated crap.

    I could never get into Peaky Blinders. Barbie was decent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To be fair, the campaign against ULEZ, led, not so much by the Conservative Party, but by elements in the media who seem a) resistant to the notion of climate change and b) very hostile to Sadiq Khan, has been a very successful example of how to engender fear and hostility among groups, many of whom won't be in any way affected by the coming of ULEZ.

    The Conservatives have, quite late in the day and after being in Boris Johnson's time quite supportive of the concept, seized on ULEZ as the only stick with which they can beat Labour. After all, campaigning on their record in Government sounds like a really good move, doesn't it?

    Since the U&SR by-election, Khan has been forced into putting more into the scrappage scheme but today's legal victory probably means it'll come to Outer London in the autumn - whether it will have much salience after introduction remains to be seen - it hasn't in Inner London.

    As more people come to realise they won't be affected, it's going to be harder for the Conservatives to maintain the momentum of opposition .

    There is evidence of an online campaign against ulez that was probably not funded by the media. Specifically, that genuine anti-ulez content was amplified by a network of fake re-tweeters.
    https://twitter.com/valent_projects/status/1684591764160536578
    Yes, it seems the future is shitposting stamping on a human face forever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Scott_xP said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

    Opinel have wonderful blades, They sharpen superbly. The problem is the wood. It gets damp, and rots, and expands, and so on, and fucks the whole knife

    They are still my go-to for picnics. They are so cute and look great next to a wheel of Brie

    But should be treated as disposable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
    In 5 or 10 years he could be PM, he is certainly more charismatic than Starmer and at heart a Blairite whereas Starmer is at heart a Brownite
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    I can't believe how little cricket talk there is

    This match is set up beautifully: three days (minus weather) for two innings

    I think we need to bat all day tomorrow and we'll win

    My hunch is it'll be close again but Australia will win.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
    In 5 or 10 years he could be PM
    Sure, one of many potential PMs, but I can see no reason to vote for him. I wouldn't trust him to take the bin to the end of the drive.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
    Have you met him? I have. He’s a nice chap.

    But this is fun. Will Streeting be to you what Gove us to Ydoethur? Mortal enemy of the profession.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
    In 5 or 10 years he could be PM, he is certainly more charismatic than Starmer and at heart a Blairite whereas Starmer is at heart a Brownite
    Probably fair analysis. Quite like Wes. And he strikes me as a tough cookie.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    There are people who stop from time to time to acknowledge what the other side think, and people who just look at polls and decide what to say. I think Wes is the former. So is Lisa Nandy, my favourite Labourite. I think he gets the trans issue from both sides and is an intelligent triangulator. He’s gay himself and immersed in queer culture, but I think because of that he probably feels he’s able to do the Nixon in China thing and reach across the aisle.
    Streeting is probably the closest to a genuine Blairite in the current Shadow Cabinet
    Streeting is awful. I couldn't vote for a party that gives him a serious position.
    Have you met him? I have. He’s a nice chap.

    But this is fun. Will Streeting be to you what Gove us to Ydoethur? Mortal enemy of the progression.
    No, I have formed my opinion based on his public performances. He is a slimy toad, and not trustworthy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Germans have always liked the idea of adding France to their possessions. Thailand would be a stretch.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Of course parts of France are lovely in December. Reunion, New Caledonia, Tahiti etc.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

    Opinel have wonderful blades, They sharpen superbly. The problem is the wood. It gets damp, and rots, and expands, and so on, and fucks the whole knife

    They are still my go-to for picnics. They are so cute and look great next to a wheel of Brie

    But should be treated as disposable
    Does any other PBer find it strange/sad that one of Britain's (or at least Far West Cornwall's) finest (alleged) flint knappers, habitually uses METAL tools?

    Is he NOT knapping on the job?

    AND what about the credulous consumer of flint dildos and other implements of entertainment (broadly defined) who rely upon the (alleged) authenticity and (ditto) quality of his (alleged) knapping???

    To top it off (in a manner of speaking) note that northern Bukovina, at that sweat (spealling correct) spot where Moldavia meets Galicia (and visa versa) is notorious hub for the fake flint tickler trade!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
    On a sort of related topic my friend wants me to join him on a week’s tour of Djibouti in November. Anyone been? Not sure I’m convinced the cost of travel is equal to the exotic treats in store. Lake Assal looks interesting but otherwise it’s just a big container port isn’t it? I enquired whether we could hop across into Somaliland but that’s apparently not on the itinerary.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    ohnotnow said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    A question for the collective.

    I’m on holiday - rented house.

    As usual, the kitchen gear includes a cheap block of knifes. Unusually, there was a steel in the drawer.

    Over a period of a week, I’ve sharpened one knife to what I refer to as useable. Slices through meat and fish cleanly, without effort.

    It occurs to me that this is a dangerous thing. If you assume it’s the usual blunt thing…. Almost a bobby trap. But it seems very wrong to blunt a knife.

    What should I do?

    Leave a note

    I’ve had the same experience as you, so many times: rented apartment/house = shitty knives. It gets quite annoying

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    https://ontario-knife-store.com/rat-knives/

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch. They all fit in a small bag like them ones they give away in Biz class

    In another bag I always bring with me: a bottle of sriracha, a bottle of soy, a peppercorn grinder (full), sea salt (ditto), Tabasco

    These can save almost any meal. I was pleased a few years ago to discover that Byron did the same on his travels. Brought spicy sauces from London to rescue bad meals. Kind of reverses expectations
    Right (cracks knuckles)

    If you go to Boots you can get those little transparent plastic make-up bags that are easily repurposed thus:
    • Tbag 1: strong and weak antihistamines, painkillers, various disease-specific medications
    • Tbag 2: Oragel, bojela, clove oil, cotton buds
    • Tbag 3: shampoo, moisturising soap, allergen-free soap, hairbrush, toothbrush and paste, razors, washing-up liquid (always useful)
    • Tbag 4: three USB-C chargers, nail-clippers
    They go into Gobag 1, which contains the four Tbags, one medium Lenovo tablet, one wallet containing a map, facemask, lanyards and log-in details, another containing notes for that week's work. The external pockets includes an improving book (this month: Duty of Care by David Hennessy), a small bottle of Diet coke, and a telescopic umbrella

    In Gobag 2 there is two laptops: one secure for secure work, one personal for non-secure work and personal use. The external pockets contain two brick chargers, a four-way plug, two mice and one set of earphones.

    In right-hand internal coat pocket is the small Lenovo tablet and three pens which I get from the RSS conference each year

    In left hand internal coat pocket is the wallet and phone.

    Duplicate keys are in my trousers and coat. The ID badge goes around my neck with a plain lanyard to minimise the shitkicking in trains.

    I can get packed in under 30 mins and I carry all that over one hundred miles twice a week via busy trains, which I hate with a passion.

    Ya wusses.


    If you fancy a bit of knife-ogling, https://blenheimforge.co.uk/ is worth a poke. I've got one of their knives and.... it's lovely.
    Bloody hell. You could buy a ULEZ-compliant car for the price of some of those.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
    I don’t ski; I scuba

    For my tastes and purposes all of Europe is shite from early November til mid March. I am willing to spend December in London because, Christmas, and midwinter fun, but by January 1 you need to fuck the hell outa there

    I would be quite content if I never spend another winter in Europe til my dying day

  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

    Opinel have wonderful blades, They sharpen superbly. The problem is the wood. It gets damp, and rots, and expands, and so on, and fucks the whole knife

    They are still my go-to for picnics. They are so cute and look great next to a wheel of Brie

    But should be treated as disposable
    Just keep them dry. My main no 8 is over 30 years old and it's lovely to see what shape 30 years of sharpening gives the blade Vs a brand new one
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
    On a sort of related topic my friend wants me to join him on a week’s tour of Djibouti in November. Anyone been? Not sure I’m convinced the cost of travel is equal to the exotic treats in store. Lake Assal looks interesting but otherwise it’s just a big container port isn’t it? I enquired whether we could hop across into Somaliland but that’s apparently not on the itinerary.
    if you can hop over to Ethiopia and the Darfur (and its volcanoes and geo-sites) then OMFG you must GO

    Otherwise, no, from what I have heard. Boring and very very very hot
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Miklosvar said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

    Opinel have wonderful blades, They sharpen superbly. The problem is the wood. It gets damp, and rots, and expands, and so on, and fucks the whole knife

    They are still my go-to for picnics. They are so cute and look great next to a wheel of Brie

    But should be treated as disposable
    Just keep them dry. My main no 8 is over 30 years old and it's lovely to see what shape 30 years of sharpening gives the blade Vs a brand new one
    For the man-about-the-world, constantly in war zones, and the polar regions, and truly challenging urban and wild environments, ie me, I’m afraid the drying out thing is a dealbreaker. I need a knife that is gonna take any punishment and come out fighting

    I appreciate that a gentleman foxhunter, who restricts himself to tropical yachts and Dartmoor hedges, has less to worry about

    That said, it is amazing Opinel can still produce such a quality knife for a tenner. I suspect China is involved, somewhere
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Yes

    And with that, goodnight from Ukraine
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    Indeed that is a fascinating chart.

    Note that in USA, Dems supporting car ban significantly exceeds Dems supporting excessive airplane use tax; methinks reason is the love of (increasingly) college-educated Dems to gad about the world via air.

    Also note the wider distances between left v right in US and Germany, compared to UK and esp. France.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    It doesn’t look extraordinary at all. I’m fact, it’s not even the smallest gap in two of the three questions.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Yes

    And with that, goodnight from Ukraine
    Good night, Sleep tight. Don’t let the bombs bite.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch.

    You could slim down your carry with either or both of these

    https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Wine-Master/p/0.9701.64

    Best corkscrew, and also stupidly sharp blade (and technically Swiss Army)

    https://www.opinel.com/en/nomad-cooking/picnic-plus-complete-set

    Fork, spoon, and another superb blade

    Opinel have wonderful blades, They sharpen superbly. The problem is the wood. It gets damp, and rots, and expands, and so on, and fucks the whole knife

    They are still my go-to for picnics. They are so cute and look great next to a wheel of Brie

    But should be treated as disposable
    Just keep them dry. My main no 8 is over 30 years old and it's lovely to see what shape 30 years of sharpening gives the blade Vs a brand new one
    For the man-about-the-world, constantly in war zones, and the polar regions, and truly challenging urban and wild environments, ie me, I’m afraid the drying out thing is a dealbreaker. I need a knife that is gonna take any punishment and come out fighting

    I appreciate that a gentleman foxhunter, who restricts himself to tropical yachts and Dartmoor hedges, has less to worry about

    That said, it is amazing Opinel can still produce such a quality knife for a tenner. I suspect China is involved, somewhere
    You are obv a posho because you fly with hold baggage. I am a carry on peasant, so I travel knifeless.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,634
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
    On a sort of related topic my friend wants me to join him on a week’s tour of Djibouti in November. Anyone been? Not sure I’m convinced the cost of travel is equal to the exotic treats in store. Lake Assal looks interesting but otherwise it’s just a big container port isn’t it? I enquired whether we could hop across into Somaliland but that’s apparently not on the itinerary.
    The film Beau Travail was filmed and set there if you want to get an idea. A mesmerising film.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    RobD said:

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    It doesn’t look extraordinary at all. I’m fact, it’s not even the smallest gap in two of the three questions.
    I suspect to that journalist "extraordinary consensus" might mean "consensus in the direction I like". But perhaps I am being too harsh.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
    Some of which are edible.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    Ahem. jburnmudoch includes only two parties for UK, US and France, but three for Ger. I'm sure it made sense to him, but I would not have done that. This is a good case where a number would have been better than a graph
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
    Some of which are edible.
    Personally, I don't think I've ever come across a crisp I found inedible. Some are dull though, which is unforgiveable in a crisp. I am sure it's got a bit better now but in Germany you used to only get plain or paprika flavour. :grimace: The phillistines.

    I also have a theory that crisps aren't at all fattening, as really you're only getting about a potato's worth. And of that a lot of the starches will be resistant starch because of the cooking process.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    RobD said:

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    It doesn’t look extraordinary at all. I’m fact, it’s not even the smallest gap in two of the three questions.
    Doesn't look like much enthusiasm in France or Germany for banning new petrol and diesel cars after 2030, nor from Republican US voters there. US voters not keen on taxing flights either but general consensus in western nations for increasing investment in renewables
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    Yes I think this is probably so. Germany also has multiple layers of (arguably originally well earned) national complacency and we know best which have been exposed since Russia’s invasion.

    It’s also possible the French I mix with are unrepresentative. But so are the Italians and Germans.
    I met an elderly German travel journalist in America last autumn who was so determined that “French is best” he insisted you could have a magnificent winter holiday on the Riviera, with sea swimming, that would be superior to, say, Thailand or the Maldives or the Seychelles or Penang or anywhere tropical in the European winter

    Er, what?

    Some Germans have internalized a weird inferiority complex that means France should lead culturally and Russia must be respected politically and Germany can quietly go on making money. And that’s it. A hangover from the end of WW2?

    Not everyone enjoys Thailand as much as you.
    Well, ok, but swimming in the Med in January is not fun. Indeed holidaying in the Riviera in January is not fun. It is drizzly, grey, and cool, and stays that way til April. It is just better than London, which is why aristo Brits went there in Victorian times. But they had no choice

    Thailand (or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Sri Lanka, or the Caribbean, or the Maldives, or the Seychelles, or Zanzibar, and so on and so forth) is the place to be in the European winter
    Or skiing. But that’s better in late February and March. January I would concur you’re best off out of Europe.
    I don’t ski; I scuba

    For my tastes and purposes all of Europe is shite from early November til mid March. I am willing to spend December in London because, Christmas, and midwinter fun, but by January 1 you need to fuck the hell outa there

    I would be quite content if I never spend another winter in Europe til my dying day

    If climate change continues those who are rich enough to choose where they spend each season may spend summers in northern Europe or Canada and winter in SE Asia, the Indian Ocean or Caribbean (with maybe the Alps for skiing still)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    They learned the lesson re: California wines, decades ago/

    BTW, do PBers run across any Washington State wines?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited July 2023
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    A question for the collective.

    I’m on holiday - rented house.

    As usual, the kitchen gear includes a cheap block of knifes. Unusually, there was a steel in the drawer.

    Over a period of a week, I’ve sharpened one knife to what I refer to as useable. Slices through meat and fish cleanly, without effort.

    It occurs to me that this is a dangerous thing. If you assume it’s the usual blunt thing…. Almost a bobby trap. But it seems very wrong to blunt a knife.

    What should I do?

    Leave a note

    I’ve had the same experience as you, so many times: rented apartment/house = shitty knives. It gets quite annoying

    Indeed as someone who travels endlessly I’ve learned to bring a couple of my own super sharp knives wherever I go. Simple Every Day Carry handknives, the Ontario Rat or something: sharpened to a hard edge

    https://ontario-knife-store.com/rat-knives/

    I also bring: a small fork, a small spoon, a proper corkscrew, a Swiss Army Knife, a multi tool, and a head torch. They all fit in a small bag like them ones they give away in Biz class

    In another bag I always bring with me: a bottle of sriracha, a bottle of soy, a peppercorn grinder (full), sea salt (ditto), Tabasco

    These can save almost any meal. I was pleased a few years ago to discover that Byron did the same on his travels. Brought spicy sauces from London to rescue bad meals. Kind of reverses expectations
    Right (cracks knuckles)

    If you go to Boots you can get those little transparent plastic make-up bags that are easily repurposed thus:
    • Tbag 1: strong and weak antihistamines, painkillers, various disease-specific medications
    • Tbag 2: Oragel, bojela, clove oil, cotton buds
    • Tbag 3: shampoo, moisturising soap, allergen-free soap, hairbrush, toothbrush and paste, razors, washing-up liquid (always useful)
    • Tbag 4: three USB-C chargers, nail-clippers
    They go into Gobag 1, which contains the four Tbags, one medium Lenovo tablet, one wallet containing a map, facemask, lanyards and log-in details, another containing notes for that week's work. The external pockets includes an improving book (this month: Duty of Care by David Hennessy), a small bottle of Diet coke, and a telescopic umbrella

    In Gobag 2 there is two laptops: one secure for secure work, one personal for non-secure work and personal use. The external pockets contain two brick chargers, a four-way plug, two mice and one set of earphones.

    In right-hand internal coat pocket is the small Lenovo tablet and three pens which I get from the RSS conference each year

    In left hand internal coat pocket is the wallet and phone.

    Duplicate keys are in my trousers and coat. The ID badge goes around my neck with a plain lanyard to minimise the shitkicking in trains.

    I can get packed in under 30 mins and I carry all that over one hundred miles twice a week via busy trains, which I hate with a passion.

    Ya wusses.


    That all sounds quite sensible.

    My only comment would be wrt knives with blades that lock open may give trouble in eg Belgium, France, Germany, UK - and I assume that the knives at least go in hold luggage.

    I've never taken one abroad, so I'll bow to Leon's experience on security checks.

    For extreme weightsaving if that is your thing, Bikepackers are the ones to learn from !
    Yep. Always in the hold. In a bright bag ideally. Easy to find

    Forgot to add: I also bring a small metal cup. Amazingly useful


    I always wondered how pterodactyls drank.
    That’s the Spyderco Tenacious. A magnificent knife. That particular one is ten years old and as good as new. Sharpens fast

    I note they are now absurdly pricey. Mine cost about £25, now they are £75? Maybe illegal?

    https://heinnie.com/spyderco-tenacious
    This is the list of banned knives. Not entirely sure if this would be deemed to fall into one of these categories:
    https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives#Basic laws on knives and weapons
    It's not banned, but the 3.5" blade and blade lock means you need a good, immediate reason for having it in your possession that the coppers believe. Not something to have in a nightclub or nightlife area - off for a camping weekend 'for food prep' may convince.

    I have one of these, which falls within the non-locking blade / blade less than 3" exception. As Leon says - sharpens beautifully and keeps the edge.
    https://heinnie.com/spyderco-ukpk-frn-drop-point-flat-grind

    Yes - the prices are pokey - I'd say they are marketing to collectors.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    edited July 2023
    deleted because I can't make the imaging work!


  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
    Some of which are edible.
    Personally, I don't think I've ever come across a crisp I found inedible. Some are dull though, which is unforgiveable in a crisp. I am sure it's got a bit better now but in Germany you used to only get plain or paprika flavour. :grimace: The phillistines.

    I also have a theory that crisps aren't at all fattening, as really you're only getting about a potato's worth. And of that a lot of the starches will be resistant starch because of the cooking process.
    What are your views on popcorn, flavored, plain, and/or buttered?

    Sublime treat OR grotesque Americanism?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
    Objectively I don’t think so. We’ve moved left economically as a nation in the intervening years, and left socially too. The one area we’ve moved sharply to the right is on nationalism.
    What does moving left socially mean? It's not necessarily the same thing as becoming more libertarian.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
    Some of which are edible.
    Personally, I don't think I've ever come across a crisp I found inedible. Some are dull though, which is unforgiveable in a crisp. I am sure it's got a bit better now but in Germany you used to only get plain or paprika flavour. :grimace: The phillistines.

    I also have a theory that crisps aren't at all fattening, as really you're only getting about a potato's worth. And of that a lot of the starches will be resistant starch because of the cooking process.
    No-one in the world does crisps as good as the British.

    I would also argue that we lead the world in mid-range confectionery. Sure, the Belgians can craft luxury chocolate. But where is their equivalent of the Twirl? And the less said about German or American confectionery the better.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    edited July 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    This is a big deal in part because Streeting is extremely politically astute. He's a very reliable indicator of the way the wind is blowing. Well bloody done to all the women who've got things here, keep going!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1685014637480124416?s=20

    Wes Streeting apologises to Rosie Duffield for treatment by Labour over gender views

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views?CMP=share_btn_tw

    My local MP, that Wes :)
    I think probably Labour’s next leader, unless they take a big change of direction.
    Can a wind vane be a leader?

    The current one is.....
    Sunak? Sadly I think he actually believes some of the shit he spouts.
    So Keir's a Tory?
    Keir is probably right of Ted Heath and Ken Clarke on his current policy positions, even if not quite as right as Blair was
    Objectively I don’t think so. We’ve moved left economically as a nation in the intervening years, and left socially too. The one area we’ve moved sharply to the right is on nationalism.
    And yet at that time we had a centre-left government that regularly floated policies to the right of Suella Braverman, so I would contend that we've actually moved left on nationalism. Remember when Gordon Brown said we should expect immigrants to do community service to demonstrate their loyalty to Britain before getting citizenship?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6399457.stm

    Brown said: "Being a British citizen is about more than a test, more than a ceremony. It's a kind of contract between the citizen and the country involving rights but also involving responsibilities that will protect and enhance the British way of life."
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Is it safe to come in? Have people stopped talking about knives? Even the D'Hondt method would be more interesting and less incelly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023
    O/T

    Watching the bi-centennial test match between Australia and England in Sydney in 1988, it's interesting to note how nearly all the flags being waved in the crowd by England fans are Union Jacks, not England flags. Slightly different to the situation today. See 10 mins, 17 secs for example.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8JXZU7CYnk
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    They learned the lesson re: California wines, decades ago/

    BTW, do PBers run across any Washington State wines?
    Not in supermarkets generally. Chateau Ste. Michelle turns up in independent wine shops a bit.

    I don't think any USA wines other than californian ones are widely known here. Mostly big brand cheapies: my 99 year old grandmother drinks californian merlot. It's £5 a bottle and very smooth, for good or ill.

    Young ladies get fat drinking californian Rosé thinking it's a table wine when it's actually stuffed full of sugar. They would be very surprised to try a dry rosé.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    viewcode said:

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    Ahem. jburnmudoch includes only two parties for UK, US and France, but three for Ger. I'm sure it made sense to him, but I would not have done that. This is a good case where a number would have been better than a graph
    He replied to a “where’s UKIP”? Gotcha pointing out that he was using parties that had over 15% support.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    I'd love to know what the Swiss think about wine. They have their own, which doesn't tend to get exported due to domestic demand and perhaps uncompetitive costs - but they are sandwiched between three great wine producing nations.

    I’ve done a Gazette piece on Swiss wine (and been to producers)

    They make some nice stuff. They simply can’t export it due to currency pressures. The Franc is too strong

    Their supermarkets are not very exciting places to buy wine. Very little from the New World

    We are blessed in the UK with an astounding variety of wine in even a medium sized Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury’s. Chile to South Africa, Spain to Portugal, France to New Zealand. You will struggle to find similar variety anywhere else on earth; in fact, I haven’t ever found it
    A combination of - until recently- not being a wine producing country ourselves and empire/commonwealth giving us access to wines from around the world?
    Also crisp flavours. Nobody on earth can rival us for sheer variety and exoticism of crisp flavours.
    Some of which are edible.
    Personally, I don't think I've ever come across a crisp I found inedible. Some are dull though, which is unforgiveable in a crisp. I am sure it's got a bit better now but in Germany you used to only get plain or paprika flavour. :grimace: The phillistines.

    I also have a theory that crisps aren't at all fattening, as really you're only getting about a potato's worth. And of that a lot of the starches will be resistant starch because of the cooking process.
    No-one in the world does crisps as good as the British.

    I would also argue that we lead the world in mid-range confectionery. Sure, the Belgians can craft luxury chocolate. But where is their equivalent of the Twirl? And the less said about German or American confectionery the better.
    Tyrells crisps are a staple of posh food shops in Asia. Need something to fill up those empty containers going back east.

    Cheap british chocolate is great. Posh belgian chocolate is great. Cheap belgian chocolate is greasy muck.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Has Leon infiltrated the Financial Times?


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Andrew Neil is having an awakening on trans issues:

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1685029046915063808

    This is heartbreaking. It is barbaric. What have we become?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2023
    The Republican right is simply not representative of public opinion on Ukraine.

    A new poll finds that 76% of Americans — including 71% of Republicans — agree it’s important to the US that Ukraine wins the war."
    https://twitter.com/KatyaYushchenko/status/1684990758032420877
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    Has Leon infiltrated the Financial Times?


    The article by Henry Mance is here: https://archive.is/5RxLv

    The FT actually pay people for writing articles that begin semi-literately like this:

    "On Wednesday, a respected former US intelligence official told a congressional committee that, in effect, aliens exist."

    That's sub-Dan Brown! It's even worse than saying "renowned".

    I stopped reading at this bit:

    "(E)vidence of non-human intelligence (technically non-animal intelligence) would be a massive story, larger even than climate change or the banking arrangements of a former Brexit campaigner."

    Probably larger than a film star getting out of a taxi too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    The Ukrainian soldiers operating multiple-launch rocket systems said the North Korean rockets had been “seized” from a ship by a “friendly” country before being delivered to Ukraine. They declined to provide further details.

    ...One Ukrainian Grad unit member warned ⁦
    @ChristopherJM⁩ not to get too close to the rocket launcher when the crew fired the North Korean munitions because “they are very unreliable and do crazy things sometimes”.

    https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1685033238035652608
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    This is a really interesting thread.
    The molecular analysis and global evolutionary tracking of Covid is absolutely unprecedented (the technology simply wasn't sufficiently available or efficient before).

    Scientists are learning a lot about viral evolution.

    SARS-CoV-2 is a tricky little bastard. We caught it trying to re-engineer itself again...
    https://twitter.com/SolidEvidence/status/1684931557352722432
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Most of the lab leak propaganda is bollocks - thoiugh I don't dismiss the possibility, and lab security is a serious issue.

    This is potentially a much more worrying one for the future.

    It’s time to close the gene synthesis loophole that could lead to a human-made pandemic
    Congress is grappling with the security concerns of the DNA synthesis revolution.
    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2023/7/27/23808920/gene-dna-synthesis-biotechnology-pandemic-viruses-twist-bioscience-pathogens-ginkgo-bioworks
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited July 2023
    Peck said:

    Has Leon infiltrated the Financial Times?


    The article by Henry Mance is here: https://archive.is/5RxLv

    The FT actually pay people for writing articles that begin semi-literately like this:

    "On Wednesday, a respected former US intelligence official told a congressional committee that, in effect, aliens exist."

    That's sub-Dan Brown! It's even worse than saying "renowned".

    I stopped reading at this bit:

    "(E)vidence of non-human intelligence (technically non-animal intelligence) would be a massive story, larger even than climate change or the banking arrangements of a former Brexit campaigner."

    Probably larger than a film star getting out of a taxi too.
    Or somebody being able to hit or kick a ball slightly better than somebody else.

    Or an overpaid autocue reader's internet browsing history, which dominated the news in this country for three days a few weeks back.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Peck said:

    Has Leon infiltrated the Financial Times?


    The article by Henry Mance is here: https://archive.is/5RxLv

    The FT actually pay people for writing articles that begin semi-literately like this:

    "On Wednesday, a respected former US intelligence official told a congressional committee that, in effect, aliens exist."

    That's sub-Dan Brown! It's even worse than saying "renowned".

    I stopped reading at this bit:

    "(E)vidence of non-human intelligence (technically non-animal intelligence) would be a massive story, larger even than climate change or the banking arrangements of a former Brexit campaigner."

    Probably larger than a film star getting out of a taxi too.
    Depends on the film star, surely.

    If it was Marilyn Monroe, that'd be a pretty big story.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    It doesn’t look extraordinary at all. I’m fact, it’s not even the smallest gap in two of the three questions.
    Doesn't look like much enthusiasm in France or Germany for banning new petrol and diesel cars after 2030, nor from Republican US voters there. US voters not keen on taxing flights either but general consensus in western nations for increasing investment in renewables
    Calling it 'investment' - which it is not, is distorting that result.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    Incredible chart from @jburnmurdoch in @FT which shows how extraordinary the UK’s climate consensus is. Working in an organisation that looks at polarisation in different countries I get to see how despite our problems, we’re relatively far less polarised. on.ft.com/3Dxxy1F



    https://twitter.com/luketryl/status/1684843643545190400

    It doesn’t look extraordinary at all. I’m fact, it’s not even the smallest gap in two of the three questions.
    Doesn't look like much enthusiasm in France or Germany for banning new petrol and diesel cars after 2030, nor from Republican US voters there. US voters not keen on taxing flights either but general consensus in western nations for increasing investment in renewables
    Calling it 'investment' - which it is not, is distorting that result.
    People who are richer than me (sorry: take more flights than me) should pay more tax is hardly neutral either
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Counter-intuitive note about the French.

    I have a family staying from Limoges this weekend. Friends of friends, never met them before. I gave them (bien sur) some English wine: a Nyetimber 2015 blanc de blancs, along with - of course - shepherds pie.

    This is the nth time I’ve either talked about or given English wine to French people. They are never surprised, they don’t turn their noses up, they don’t even go the other way and feign fascination. They approach it like they might approach say Croatian or Greek wine. Slightly exotic but to be respected.

    Every time this happens it shocks me. Compare that with Germans. Several times I’ve talked about or attempted to proffer English wine to Germans. Each time utter disbelief and amused bafflement. Sniggering at the back. Fundamentally unserious. Same with the Italians. Laughter and mockery.

    Why? Is it that France is that much closer to us so they can do the mental maths to add a few decades of climate change on to champagne? Is it that France has a similar attitude to all foreign impersonations of actual proper wine that England is just another vin étranger? Are they just more polite?

    You’d think the French would by reputation be THE most dismissive of English wine but time after time they’re not at all.

    Because the French people generally know about wine. And that the “only French wine is real wine” is horseshit from the domestic industry. Who have lost several markers as a result.

    Many Germans simply buy into the French Is The Only Wine thing.
    Yes, I think that’s it

    The French wine industry is massive, yet it has been calamitously damaged by New World wine, eg Australia (which, I think, now has more of the massive UK market than France)

    They have seen that wine from new countries does well, if marketed properly (or, indeed, marketed better than theirs - 19 Crimes, Jacob’s Creek) and a lot of French wine makers have suffered. Not the posh claret or Burgundy guys but the middle and lower ranks

    So, a new country offering good wine deserves respect. That is simple commercial sense. Germany exports very little wine, so they don’t understand the pressures

    Italians don’t care to understand anything and therefore veer between frivolity and Fascism. It is their genius
    19 Crimes and Jacob's Creek is shit though.
This discussion has been closed.