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The Tories working hard to be the nasty party once again – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    o/t, sorry, but missed from last time:

    Carnyx said:

    One for the train and legal geeks:

    "Here’s a little known Eurostar fact for you all, we’re required to provide space for the national authorities to move someone under arrest on our services, thus each of our trains has a private space with these points to attach handcuffs"

    https://twitter.com/TMBlakeEurostar/status/1676973181297410049

    Like the brig on, IIRC, HMS Warrior.
    Really? I cannot remember that, Mind you, I got married on Warrior, so I've been on a life sentence ever since... ;)

    (Seriously though, what are you referring to?)
    The ship's 2 (?) cells on the ?orlop deck at the bow. Prison, or cells, the RN would call it rather than the American 'brig'? I can't find a decent photo apart from this odd sounding website|:

    https://raeltv.rael.info/flickr_52514255709.html

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Any more details? source?
    Twitter, obvs.
    People are hastily deleting posts etc.
    It was definitely very odd. I couldn't read more than a couple of sentences without losing interest and scrolled down to see a wall of links to tweets.
    I scanned it quickly. It seemed salacious.
    I read it again. It seemed very dull.

    As I posted last night, it’s a tawdry attempt to ruin someone’s day (and perhaps life). No surprises to me that it seems to be part of a broader campaign of harassment.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @whatukthinks
    With the publication of today's
    @Omnisis
    poll, our post-#Brexit poll of polls now stands at 'In EU' 58 (+1); 'Out EU' 42 (-1).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Pulpstar said:

    Both teams completely carried by the non batsmen.

    Not really - Marsh is a batsman with three test centuries.
    And Stokes is most definitely not a bowler these days.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Berlusconi left €30M to an old mafia friend in his will.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Berlusconi left €30M to an old mafia friend in his will.

    Cheapskate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Carnyx said:

    o/t, sorry, but missed from last time:

    Carnyx said:

    One for the train and legal geeks:

    "Here’s a little known Eurostar fact for you all, we’re required to provide space for the national authorities to move someone under arrest on our services, thus each of our trains has a private space with these points to attach handcuffs"

    https://twitter.com/TMBlakeEurostar/status/1676973181297410049

    Like the brig on, IIRC, HMS Warrior.
    Really? I cannot remember that, Mind you, I got married on Warrior, so I've been on a life sentence ever since... ;)

    (Seriously though, what are you referring to?)
    The ship's 2 (?) cells on the ?orlop deck at the bow. Prison, or cells, the RN would call it rather than the American 'brig'? I can't find a decent photo apart from this odd sounding website|:

    https://raeltv.rael.info/flickr_52514255709.html

    Edit: but also thinking of this on HMS Victory. Much more fun on a train - you could pelt the criminal to while away the trip.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/31068574@N05/7758406852
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Are the Tories just down to their core pensioner vote now?

    Would be interested to see what exactly will be in their manifesto. Expect some proper red meat like the ECHR withdrawal, compulsory service for the young and proposals to make office working mandatory
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Scott_xP said:

    @whatukthinks
    With the publication of today's
    @Omnisis
    poll, our post-#Brexit poll of polls now stands at 'In EU' 58 (+1); 'Out EU' 42 (-1).

    It's irrelevant until you can produce some mainstream politicians willing to campaign to join the Euro.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,190
    edited July 2023
    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    The redoubts will be in Essex and Lincolnshire I think if that happens.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @JohnRentoul
    Great long post by
    @benwansell
    on the parallels between Prohibition 1920-33 and Brexit 2020-?

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1677248684474478592?s=20
  • novanova Posts: 690
    Scott_xP said:

    @whatukthinks
    With the publication of today's
    @Omnisis
    poll, our post-#Brexit poll of polls now stands at 'In EU' 58 (+1); 'Out EU' 42 (-1).

    That's still 42% (minus some don't know's I assume) who are happy to stay out, many of whom would be pretty angry if we had another poll so quickly.

    I doubt any Labour politicians will look at the GE polls, and think they'd prefer to go back to splitting the electorate on Brexit lines. Much better to get into power, and gradually soften the relationship to something a little more rational.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
    Whilst he's been found out at the top level by being promoted too quickly, a lot of it isn't his fault, really. You could reanimate a fusion of Thatcher, Churchill and Disraeli and they would struggle to lead the Conservative government right now.

    The fallout of N years of poor decisions (where N is somewhere between 1 and 78, possibly more, depending on your political taste) is managing to land on Sunak all at once. Some of it is down to policies and people he has supported, but quite a lot isn't.
    But Sunak hasn’t been powerless the last 5 years. As Chief Secretary he was sent out for Conservatives in the last big debate during last election. Before becoming PM he was Chancellor for most of this parliament.

    If UK is trailing most of our equivalent world rivals across range of key economic metrics, growth, inflation, debt, quality of public services, how much of that should he own - just the bit from when he became Primeminister? Likewise, if his own rightwing tribe unhappy with borrowing, debt, interest rates, inflation and levels of tax right now, how much of that should Rishi Sunak own - just the bit since he became Primeminister?

    It’s not just his awful record and unconvincing performances since becoming Primeminister; all things dragging the Tory polling down, years in the making, have Sunak’s fingerprints all over them.
    Yes and no.

    There are lots of things where Rishi has screwed up horribly. He gets much less flack than he deserves for backing Brexit, Boris and (now) Braverman. I really don't like the way he has let inflation muck around with the income tax system- it's dishonest and transfers burden from richer to poorer tax payers. He's also flat out bad at communication, seems poor at empathy and has been incredibly cowardly when facing up to the scandals in his party.

    But some of the problems we face are things that have been ticking away for decades, and were always going to blow up on someone's watch. It's not Sunak's fault that the UK has done too little investment for decades. It's not his fault that we have repeatedly looked for one-off windfalls to pay for current spending. It's not his fault that we fund way too much of our national lifestyle by slicing 0.1% off transactions in the City. It's not his fault that we have a stupid planning system that stops people doing stuff. He's gone along with those things, and more, but they have been part of the system for as long as I can remember.

    He's playing the hand he has been dealt badly. But even if he, or someone else, were to play it better, it would still be a terrible hand, and almost certainly a losing one.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
    Whilst he's been found out at the top level by being promoted too quickly, a lot of it isn't his fault, really. You could reanimate a fusion of Thatcher, Churchill and Disraeli and they would struggle to lead the Conservative government right now.

    The fallout of N years of poor decisions (where N is somewhere between 1 and 78, possibly more, depending on your political taste) is managing to land on Sunak all at once. Some of it is down to policies and people he has supported, but quite a lot isn't.
    But Sunak hasn’t been powerless the last 5 years. As Chief Secretary he was sent out for Conservatives in the last big debate during last election. Before becoming PM he was Chancellor for most of this parliament.

    If UK is trailing most of our equivalent world rivals across range of key economic metrics, growth, inflation, debt, quality of public services, how much of that should he own - just the bit from when he became Primeminister? Likewise, if his own rightwing tribe unhappy with borrowing, debt, interest rates, inflation and levels of tax right now, how much of that should Rishi Sunak own - just the bit since he became Primeminister?

    It’s not just his awful record and unconvincing performances since becoming Primeminister; all things dragging the Tory polling down, years in the making, have Sunak’s fingerprints all over them.
    One of your best posts.
    Rishi supported and then went on to administer, manage, and now leads, the government’s entire economic strategy.
    And, of course, was a supporter of Brexit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,190
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    I can see the Opeds from Hodges and Lilco now:

    "Why Starmer's 450 seat majority will make governing difficult"
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Farooq said:

    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    I've no idea what you're talking about

    Elaborate
    I’d rather he didn’t, frankly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "New Ofsted report rates Ruth Perry's school as good

    The school run by a head teacher who took her own life after a critical Ofsted report has been rated as good after a new inspection. Ruth Perry died in January after being told Caversham Primary School in Berkshire was being downgraded from outstanding to inadequate. The school was re-inspected after Ms Perry's death, which prompted an outpouring of anger about the system. Ofsted has defended its one-word grades, which are not being scrapped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-66133695
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    I can see the Opeds from Hodges and Lilco now:

    "Why Starmer's 450 seat majority will make governing difficult"
    In all seriousness, if he gets an insane majority like that, anything over 250 - let alone 400 - then it will come with *some* difficulties

    He will come under a lot of pressure from his Remainery set to take us right back into the EU as far as he can (without a referendum) - Single Market and CU? And he would personally want to do that

    There will be other favourite Labour causes that many will want him to force through, given that it is likely Labour will never have such immense power ever again

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    No.idea if its been covered but just had an e mail from Kessler in the Standard...Labour 8pts ahead in Uxbridge. Usual caveats about single constituency polling.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    Are the Tories just down to their core pensioner vote now?

    Would be interested to see what exactly will be in their manifesto. Expect some proper red meat like the ECHR withdrawal, compulsory service for the young and proposals to make office working mandatory

    Why do you always look at things in terms of age and not class?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Leon said:

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor

    Sunak will not be leader after the election. He may not be leader before the election. He may not be an MP...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    nova said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @whatukthinks
    With the publication of today's
    @Omnisis
    poll, our post-#Brexit poll of polls now stands at 'In EU' 58 (+1); 'Out EU' 42 (-1).

    That's still 42% (minus some don't know's I assume) who are happy to stay out, many of whom would be pretty angry if we had another poll so quickly.

    I doubt any Labour politicians will look at the GE polls, and think they'd prefer to go back to splitting the electorate on Brexit lines. Much better to get into power, and gradually soften the relationship to something a little more rational.
    Key thing is the age profile:
    18-24: 20% out, 80% rejoin
    23-34: 28% out, 72% rejoin
    35-44: 38% out, 62% rejoin
    45-44: 37% out, 63% rejoin
    55-64: 51% out, 49% rejoin
    65-74: 63% out, 37% rejoin
    75+: 73% out, 27% rejoin

    (Last week's Omnisis, at https://omnisis.co.uk/poll-results/vi-41-results-30-06-2023/)

    Starmer isn't going to push hard on Europe on those figures. But "stay out" has to run awfully fast to stand still, and right now it isn't even doing that.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    But aren’t things expected to get worse? There’s hardly going to be swingback if interest rates continue to rise, the boats aren’t stopped, public debt continues to increase and NHS waiting lists continue to be too high. Oh - and an expected recession.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    I am thinking that the key factor in determining whether the next GE is a defeat or a disaster might be the number of foot soldiers the LibDems can muster.

    1. The base assumption has to be, at the moment, that Labour will hoover up pretty much all the Con-Lab marginals, and beyond in the next election - but...
    2. There are a lot of seats where Labour will struggle in the next GE, but where LibDems could potentially cause the Cons bother - but the key is potential. Outside election time, there will be a target list of seats which will be getting regular LibDem messaging, with an active candidate building their profile.
    3. But there will be other seats -quite a lot of them - where Labour voters may be willing to vote tactically, and hacked off Tory voters will be willing to vote against the Con but not for Labour, and the LibDems are in a position to benefit.
    4. A lot is normally made of how good the LibDems are at by elections, in particular their tactical adroitness, and their ability to spend right up to the limit (not beyond it, right up to it, never beyond it, oh no). But a key factor is getting their leaflets, newspapers and just message to the voters - making them realise the LibDems are in with a shot.
    5. How many workers do the LibDems need - not to run a by election campaign, but to run something between a target seat campaign and a development campaign? How many do they have? How many of those not-currently-a-target-but-vulnerable-to tactical-voting seats can they run a campaign in? Because in the current environment, any and every such seat will be very, very vulnerable.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    I can see the Opeds from Hodges and Lilco now:

    "Why Starmer's 450 seat majority will make governing difficult"
    In all seriousness, if he gets an insane majority like that, anything over 250 - let alone 400 - then it will come with *some* difficulties

    He will come under a lot of pressure from his Remainery set to take us right back into the EU as far as he can (without a referendum) - Single Market and CU? And he would personally want to do that

    There will be other favourite Labour causes that many will want him to force through, given that it is likely Labour will never have such immense power ever again

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor
    Sunak will have it relatively easy because he will be leaving politics to spend more time with his wife's money. He wouldn't be staying as LOTO in any situation worse than a mild defeat. And if the Tories have any sense he won't even be fighting the election.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor

    Sunak will not be leader after the election. He may not be leader before the election. He may not be an MP...
    You obvious make a living out of talking shite
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Are the Tories just down to their core pensioner vote now?

    Would be interested to see what exactly will be in their manifesto. Expect some proper red meat like the ECHR withdrawal, compulsory service for the young and proposals to make office working mandatory

    Why do you always look at things in terms of age and not class?
    Because that's what the Cons are down to - the grey vote.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    I can see the Opeds from Hodges and Lilco now:

    "Why Starmer's 450 seat majority will make governing difficult"
    In all seriousness, if he gets an insane majority like that, anything over 250 - let alone 400 - then it will come with *some* difficulties

    He will come under a lot of pressure from his Remainery set to take us right back into the EU as far as he can (without a referendum) - Single Market and CU? And he would personally want to do that

    There will be other favourite Labour causes that many will want him to force through, given that it is likely Labour will never have such immense power ever again

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor
    Things could become dysfunctional very quickly. He'll be trying to implement fairly controversial Brownite constitutional reforms while facing pressure from disparate single-issue factions and dealing with a difficult economic situation.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    In my less enlightened moments, after a skin full, I like the idea that the punishment matches the crime in murder, so that chap who killed the mother and children gets a nice bonfire send off.

    When I’m feeling fluffy and kind I think that anyone convicted of murder, where it’s beyond all doubt, gets used as a human Guinea pig for various treatments for illnesses where the illness can be induced in them. If they die then, as HYuFD would say “it’s what god would have wanted”, but if they live and the tests they were part of save lives then they have given back to society that they damaged by their actions.

    This is why I am not a politician or an ethics professor.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Farooq said:

    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    I've no idea what you're talking about

    Elaborate
    Two prominent sentencing decisions today, both cases abominations. Both borderline whole life orders. Neither is all that far out of line, but whole life could be justified. But it's a good idea to keep it for very rare cases or we go even more like USA. Both cases reflect the rising tariff in recent years. One tells the general public not to take the machine gun when going out. The other, don't set fire to next door house when they are in it. But we knew that, apart from those who didn't.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    boulay said:

    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    In my less enlightened moments, after a skin full, I like the idea that the punishment matches the crime in murder, so that chap who killed the mother and children gets a nice bonfire send off.

    When I’m feeling fluffy and kind I think that anyone convicted of murder, where it’s beyond all doubt, gets used as a human Guinea pig for various treatments for illnesses where the illness can be induced in them. If they die then, as HYuFD would say “it’s what god would have wanted”, but if they live and the tests they were part of save lives then they have given back to society that they damaged by their actions.

    This is why I am not a politician or an ethics professor.
    Be careful what you wish for

    The Disappearance of Willie Bingham
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_flYlbBpSok
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    But aren’t things expected to get worse? There’s hardly going to be swingback if interest rates continue to rise, the boats aren’t stopped, public debt continues to increase and NHS waiting lists continue to be too high. Oh - and an expected recession.

    Ok that’s fair. But I still think the Tories will easily get over 10 seats, so all this panic is overblown
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    I've no idea what you're talking about

    Elaborate
    Two prominent sentencing decisions today, both cases abominations. Both borderline whole life orders. Neither is all that far out of line, but whole life could be justified. But it's a good idea to keep it for very rare cases or we go even more like USA. Both cases reflect the rising tariff in recent years. One tells the general public not to take the machine gun when going out. The other, don't set fire to next door house when they are in it. But we knew that, apart from those who didn't.
    They are juxtaposed on the front page of sky news. My own view is both are terrible, but the burning is worse by a factor of 10. But 4 years less.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882
    geoffw said:

    "Five large objects have been photographed on the roof of Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, increasing fears that Russia may be preparing to blow it up."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/07/objects-roof-ukraine-nuclear-plant-fears-russia-attack/

    Could they just fucking not, it's a Friday.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    edited July 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    Are the Tories just down to their core pensioner vote now?

    Would be interested to see what exactly will be in their manifesto. Expect some proper red meat like the ECHR withdrawal, compulsory service for the young and proposals to make office working mandatory

    Why do you always look at things in terms of age and not class?
    Because that's what the Cons are down to - the grey vote.
    Pretty much this. I get the cons have done nothing for the less well off as well - but the policy dividing line by age is so stark now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Andy_JS said:

    "New Ofsted report rates Ruth Perry's school as good

    The school run by a head teacher who took her own life after a critical Ofsted report has been rated as good after a new inspection. Ruth Perry died in January after being told Caversham Primary School in Berkshire was being downgraded from outstanding to inadequate. The school was re-inspected after Ms Perry's death, which prompted an outpouring of anger about the system. Ofsted has defended its one-word grades, which are not being scrapped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-66133695

    What Jafar's parrot said.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Miklosvar said:

    48 years for shooting an innocent bystander

    44 years for burning to death a mother and 2 small children

    Discuss

    In my less enlightened moments, after a skin full, I like the idea that the punishment matches the crime in murder, so that chap who killed the mother and children gets a nice bonfire send off.

    When I’m feeling fluffy and kind I think that anyone convicted of murder, where it’s beyond all doubt, gets used as a human Guinea pig for various treatments for illnesses where the illness can be induced in them. If they die then, as HYuFD would say “it’s what god would have wanted”, but if they live and the tests they were part of save lives then they have given back to society that they damaged by their actions.

    This is why I am not a politician or an ethics professor.
    I guess the main difficulty comes when you have burned a murderer to death and then you find out you got the wrong guy. I presume you wouldn't then similarly cast yourself into the flames.
    Absolutely - I’m horrible but always fair.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    I agree. But I suspect it would end up with the upper class on top. :(
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "New Ofsted report rates Ruth Perry's school as good

    The school run by a head teacher who took her own life after a critical Ofsted report has been rated as good after a new inspection. Ruth Perry died in January after being told Caversham Primary School in Berkshire was being downgraded from outstanding to inadequate. The school was re-inspected after Ms Perry's death, which prompted an outpouring of anger about the system. Ofsted has defended its one-word grades, which are not being scrapped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-66133695

    What Jafar's parrot said.
    Re. Ruth Perry, that new grade makes it feel worse somehow…such a sad situation
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Farooq said:

    nova said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @whatukthinks
    With the publication of today's
    @Omnisis
    poll, our post-#Brexit poll of polls now stands at 'In EU' 58 (+1); 'Out EU' 42 (-1).

    That's still 42% (minus some don't know's I assume) who are happy to stay out, many of whom would be pretty angry if we had another poll so quickly.

    I doubt any Labour politicians will look at the GE polls, and think they'd prefer to go back to splitting the electorate on Brexit lines. Much better to get into power, and gradually soften the relationship to something a little more rational.
    Key thing is the age profile:
    18-24: 20% out, 80% rejoin
    23-34: 28% out, 72% rejoin
    35-44: 38% out, 62% rejoin
    45-44: 37% out, 63% rejoin
    55-64: 51% out, 49% rejoin
    65-74: 63% out, 37% rejoin
    75+: 73% out, 27% rejoin

    (Last week's Omnisis, at https://omnisis.co.uk/poll-results/vi-41-results-30-06-2023/)

    Starmer isn't going to push hard on Europe on those figures. But "stay out" has to run awfully fast to stand still, and right now it isn't even doing that.
    Age of 44 year olds by age bracket:
    18-24: 0%
    23-34: 0%
    35-44: 91%
    45-44: 9%
    55-64: 0%
    65-74: 0%
    75+: 0%
    Don't know about that one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    There should be a convention that if a party wins >500 seats, it has to split and provide both the government and the opposition.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    I don’t think copyright is a slam dunk. You can use copyrighted materials in the U.K. if you can apply one or more of a number of ‘fair dealing’ exceptions to copyright law, which means that certain uses of an artistic work do not require permission from the copyright owner so long as the use is considered to be
    ‘fair’. It’s possible (although this is outside my area) this use could fall within “educational” in that it is intended to create a calmer environment for children out of their native environment to play and learn.

    More relevant, given that no possible commercial advantage was being gained by anyone by this use, it’s hard to see what damage Disney could suffer, and thus what remedy they could claim. Quite the opposite in fact - if anything HMG was freely advertising their products. Does Disney want a situation where every school, youth group etc up and down the U.K. is too scared to put The Mouse on their walls?
    Sorry for picking this up again late.

    I would imagine there are Disney-licensed posters, maybe even large wall stickers etc. The exceptions, particularly in UK are quite narrow (US has a bit more formalised fair use compared to here). Essentially, if Disney has in the past licensed the characters for large wall art and been paid then that, surely, is the case for loss? Clearer perhaps if someone was paid to do the work (who should then have given Disnet a cut) rather than if it was purely a volunteer thing.

    IANAL (I know that you are, so if you have expertise in this area then I bow to you) but I did work - quite some time ago - in intellectual property, on the government side, including a bit of policy (although not much on copyright). Remembering the difficulties over things like format shifting, I'm not convinced that Disney would have problems in law if they had wanted to pursue this and the mural was a pretty direct copy/very clearly derived work of something from Disney, rather than just a mouse and other characters who look a bit like Mickey and co.

    The bigger question would be whether Disney would be stupid enough to want to look as mean and nasty as Scar the UK Tory Party :wink:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Sorry if this should be obvious - but which email?
    I have added you to THE SECRET CLUB OF THOSE WHO KNOW (see vf.politicalbetting.com). It's not very interesting
    Ha - I see. Gardenwalker's comment now makes sense and I agree.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    Why? Genuinely - why should class be the dividing line in politics, more than any other factor?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Meanwhile, Sunak will have it relatively easy, as his Shadow Cabinet will consist of three people, not including him, as there will only be two Tory MPs left, and one will bring his dog to act as Shadow Chancellor

    Sunak will not be leader after the election. He may not be leader before the election. He may not be an MP...
    You obvious make a living out of talking shite
    ...like most tory politicians perhaps?....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    . . . speaking of politics and elections . . .

    Yesterday, in a BIG open room, on secured second floor of an even bigger building, King County Elections conducted legally-required Logic and Accuracy testing of ballot tabulation equipment being used to count votes for the August 1, 2023 primary.

    Testing was observed by local Democratic observers (no Republicans showed up) plus three candidates. Results of test matched expected results, with every race and ballot style tested, for every tabulating machine being used to count votes for the primary. Then all machines were cleared, with "zero report" run confirming this, and sealed until scanning of returned AND verified ballots begins in just over a week.

    Note that the main "drop" of outgoing ballots to all active registered voters is next week, as per state law; ballots to military and overseas voters have already gone out, and some of these have already come back.

    Off-year primary is limited to local candidate races and ballot measures, for example some county council seats, and all Seattle district (as opposed to at-large) members of city council.

    One wrinkle is that for many offices, if only two candidates file, the race is NOT on primary ballot, instead will be voted on only in fall general election. Including King County Director of Elections, for which only two candidates filed: the nonpartisan incumbent, and a perennially unsuccessful GOP candidate and elections critic, part of civil suit alleging election fraud versus KC Elections Director that was just laughed out of court.

    Punters, draw your own conclusions!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    edited July 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "New Ofsted report rates Ruth Perry's school as good

    The school run by a head teacher who took her own life after a critical Ofsted report has been rated as good after a new inspection. Ruth Perry died in January after being told Caversham Primary School in Berkshire was being downgraded from outstanding to inadequate. The school was re-inspected after Ms Perry's death, which prompted an outpouring of anger about the system. Ofsted has defended its one-word grades, which are not being scrapped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-66133695

    What Jafar's parrot said.
    Re. Ruth Perry, that new grade makes it feel worse somehow…such a sad situation
    They had decided both grades before ever they set foot in the school. Which is one reason why their grading system has become utterly worthless.

    The tragedy in this case is that it cost somebody's life.

    The wider tragedy is that they remain perversely and wilfully blind to their own failings.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    Yes yes yes, all very amusing. But that's not actually going to happen is it?

    For a start, and most importantly it ignores the reality of Swingback. Which always happens. Once you factor in that, then the Tories will almost certainly get more than 20 seats. In fact I can see them retaining maybe 28 or 29, so Labour's potential overall majority would be slashed to about 489, with Starmer gravely weakened
    waahayyy...Libdems third again!!!

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Just turned my computer on and Australia now 8 down! How did that happen? Ah, I see, the browser hasn't been refreshed since halfway through the Lord's game. Oh.

    Anyway - anticipating a quiet session here, I have made the last minute decision to take some daughters off to Old Trafford for the T20 quarter final against Surrey. Regrettably, my good luck daughter - who in eleven sporting events she has watched live has never seen her chosen team lose - cannot make it, which bodes ill for Lancs. But it is a glorious evening for it and I am looking forward to it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    There should be a convention that if a party wins >500 seats, it has to split and provide both the government and the opposition.
    This version of the Tories have been doing that with 365 seats, and even giving all the various oppositions a go at playing cabinet.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "How the Conservative "moderates" opened the door for extremists
    If they were serious, they would support Labour now
    Nick Cohen"

    https://nickcohen.substack.com/p/how-the-conservative-moderates-opened
  • lintolinto Posts: 38
    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    It's worth noting that at the size of swings we're looking at, any simple model predicting seats can be wildly wrong because the margin of error for regional variation is so large.

    But regardless, we're back in a situation where the Tories need a significant turnaround just to bring themselves back to a 10pt defeat.

    And the economic and political outlook for Sunak looks dire. And we seem to be at a Tory MP sleaze story a month.

    I think Labour majority remains value at 1.5.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "New Ofsted report rates Ruth Perry's school as good

    The school run by a head teacher who took her own life after a critical Ofsted report has been rated as good after a new inspection. Ruth Perry died in January after being told Caversham Primary School in Berkshire was being downgraded from outstanding to inadequate. The school was re-inspected after Ms Perry's death, which prompted an outpouring of anger about the system. Ofsted has defended its one-word grades, which are not being scrapped."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-66133695

    What Jafar's parrot said.
    Re. Ruth Perry, that new grade makes it feel worse somehow…such a sad situation
    They had decided both grades before ever they set foot in the school. Which is one reason why their grading system has become utterly worthless.

    The tragedy in this case is that it cost somebody's life.

    The wider tragedy is that they remain perversely and wilfully blind to their own failings.
    When I was a young teacher I used to be frightened to death of Ofsted Inspections and always doubted my methods and ideals because of them. In my latter years before retirement I got to couldn't care less status because if my school didn't like my methods, they'd sack me anyway. My standards and expectations have varied very little. As far as I was concerned, it was what I always believed in, whatever they said.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    Except that the upper middle class as a socio economic group and the over 50s overlap very considerably. Most of the nation's vast store of property wealth is held by the grey vote, as those who own outright or only have small balances left outstanding on their mortgages, and have made an absolute killing on the housing market simply through decades of near-continuous price inflation.

    The broad story of the century so far is that asset prices have run well ahead of wages; that house price increases have largely beaten the rate of inflation, whereas salaries have lagged it or outright stagnated; and that the taxation of earned incomes has been relentlessly ramped to pay for old age pensions and health care, whereas the taxation of assets has been kept deliberately low (and cut considerably in the case of legacies.) It's a system structured to redistribute wealth upwards over time, from the young-poor to the old-rich.

    The fact that a sizeable minority of the elderly - those who are not owner-occupiers - are hard-up doesn't negate the wider picture: the age divide observed in voting intention is also broadly indicative of the class divide. The older you are, the more likely you are to be economically strong and secure, and thus the more likely you are to stick with the Conservatives.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    linto said:

    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776

    linto said:

    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776

    Indeed, but it'll more likely be used as a stick to beat the Scottish governing parties. However, some of the proposals eg supervised drug consumption facilities have already been put forward and vetoed by UKG, and Mr Sunak seems even less interested in social issues than the May and Johnson administrations (no idea re Ms Truss, that wasn't long enough).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Andy_JS said:

    "How the Conservative "moderates" opened the door for extremists
    If they were serious, they would support Labour now
    Nick Cohen"

    https://nickcohen.substack.com/p/how-the-conservative-moderates-opened

    Would expect some crossover to happen in the next couple of years, even if just temporary support for Starmer in 24 from ex Tory grandees.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    ...
    linto said:

    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776

    It strikes me being completely defeated by illegal drug use, so trying to gussy it up as some sort of progressive reform.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    What should those of us who don't know or care which class we are in do? At least I know my age, although on roughly the boundary between the shafted and shaftees.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    Except that the upper middle class as a socio economic group and the over 50s overlap very considerably. Most of the nation's vast store of property wealth is held by the grey vote, as those who own outright or only have small balances left outstanding on their mortgages, and have made an absolute killing on the housing market simply through decades of near-continuous price inflation.

    The broad story of the century so far is that asset prices have run well ahead of wages; that house price increases have largely beaten the rate of inflation, whereas salaries have lagged it or outright stagnated; and that the taxation of earned incomes has been relentlessly ramped to pay for old age pensions and health care, whereas the taxation of assets has been kept deliberately low (and cut considerably in the case of legacies.) It's a system structured to redistribute wealth upwards over time, from the young-poor to the old-rich.

    The fact that a sizeable minority of the elderly - those who are not owner-occupiers - are hard-up doesn't negate the wider picture: the age divide observed in voting intention is also broadly indicative of the class divide. The older you are, the more likely you are to be economically strong and secure, and thus the more likely you are to stick with the Conservatives.
    Class and wealth are surely quite separate in 2023 Britain?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766

    Genuine LOL.

    But why doesn't she strike every day of the year so her constituents don't have to put up with her?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We need to get back to class-based politics, not based on age.

    Except that the upper middle class as a socio economic group and the over 50s overlap very considerably. Most of the nation's vast store of property wealth is held by the grey vote, as those who own outright or only have small balances left outstanding on their mortgages, and have made an absolute killing on the housing market simply through decades of near-continuous price inflation.

    The broad story of the century so far is that asset prices have run well ahead of wages; that house price increases have largely beaten the rate of inflation, whereas salaries have lagged it or outright stagnated; and that the taxation of earned incomes has been relentlessly ramped to pay for old age pensions and health care, whereas the taxation of assets has been kept deliberately low (and cut considerably in the case of legacies.) It's a system structured to redistribute wealth upwards over time, from the young-poor to the old-rich.

    The fact that a sizeable minority of the elderly - those who are not owner-occupiers - are hard-up doesn't negate the wider picture: the age divide observed in voting intention is also broadly indicative of the class divide. The older you are, the more likely you are to be economically strong and secure, and thus the more likely you are to stick with the Conservatives.
    Class and wealth are surely quite separate in 2023 Britain?
    As sung by "The Countess" on Real Housewives of NYC: 'Money can't buy you class'.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    Good afternoon Leon. Need to pass on an anecdote: 8am this morning, walking through Central Manchester, I passed a woman in her early 40s dressed in pink crocs, small pink shorts and a t-shirt bearing the slogan 'Yes Daddy'.
    I don't really have anyone in real life who I can think of who would be interested - so you were the first person who came to mind to share this with.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
    So the ghost of Cheryl Gillan, in a seat held by the Liberal Democrats, rides out the apocalypse?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
    So the ghost of Cheryl Gillan, in a seat held by the Liberal Democrats, rides out the apocalypse?
    These calculators don't usually take by-elections into account.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
    So the ghost of Cheryl Gillan, in a seat held by the Liberal Democrats, rides out the apocalypse?
    They could do a lot worse, even from that list.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    Good afternoon Leon. Need to pass on an anecdote: 8am this morning, walking through Central Manchester, I passed a woman in her early 40s dressed in pink crocs, small pink shorts and a t-shirt bearing the slogan 'Yes Daddy'.
    I don't really have anyone in real life who I can think of who would be interested - so you were the first person who came to mind to share this with.
    I don’t think Catherine, Princess of Wales, would be interested in Leon to be honest.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    COME ON ANDY!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    linto said:

    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776

    I suspect motives when a word like 'decriminalise' is used when it looks like 'legalise'.

    Use, possession and distribution need to be looked at in tandem. It is hopeless to make use lawful but trading illegal. As with prostitution if there are no users there are no suppliers. With theft, if there are no handlers big thefts would not happen. It is very unfashionable to say that use of drugs is the problem, not supply but it's true.

    We treat users as if they are innocent automata. they are not. They, not suppliers are the problem.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    boulay said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    Good afternoon Leon. Need to pass on an anecdote: 8am this morning, walking through Central Manchester, I passed a woman in her early 40s dressed in pink crocs, small pink shorts and a t-shirt bearing the slogan 'Yes Daddy'.
    I don't really have anyone in real life who I can think of who would be interested - so you were the first person who came to mind to share this with.
    I don’t think Catherine, Princess of Wales, would be interested in Leon to be honest.
    Stable Diffusion, please produce the following image... :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
    Yeah, we live in Brentwood and Ongar now so would still have a Tory MP in the excellent Alex Burghart even then
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    COME ON ANDY!

    I'd rather not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023
    148grss said:

    Are the Tories going the way of the Canadian Liberals in '93?

    https://twitter.com/leftiestats/status/1677313967402745860?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ

    "Interestingly, this would be a 19pt swing to Labour, almost exactly the same as the swing to the Canadian Liberals in 1993 that saw the Canadian Tories wiped out.

    Stats for Lefties 🏳️‍⚧️
    @LeftieStats
    🗳️ Changes from the 2019 election:

    [ % ]
    🔴 LAB 51% (+18)
    🔵 CON 25% (-20)
    🟠 LD 8% (-4)
    🟣 REF 5% (+3)
    🟢 GRN 5% (+2)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)

    [ Seats ]
    🔴 LAB 566 (+364)
    🟡 SNP 24 (-24)
    🟠 LD 20 (+9)
    🔵 CON 17 (-348)
    🟢 GRN 1 (-)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , 6-7 Jul (+/- vs 29-30 Jun)"

    No as the Tories in Canada in 1993 were overtaken by Reform as the main party of the right as well as losing the election to the Liberals.

    52 Tory seats actually on those numbers anyway

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=25&LAB=51&LIB=8&Reform=5&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.5&SCOTLAB=31.5&SCOTLIB=7.8&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=1.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.4&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766

    She has a point given how hard teachers claim to have to work during the holiday periods!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    COME ON ANDY!

    I'd rather not.
    You have such a dirty mind :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Johnny Bairstow couldn't catch the clap in a brothel.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @KevinASchofield
    Boris Johnson criticising London's Ultra Low Emission Zone as "an odious, unjustified tax on driving" in the Daily Mail.

    Only snag is he set it up eight years ago ...

    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1677348648730992640?s=20
  • Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766

    Wow, just wow.

    Just a thought but how about teachers get a pay rise that is at least as high as inflation?

    If there's enough money to give an inflationary pay rise to those on welfare, there ought to be more than enough for those working like teachers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    felix said:

    Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766

    She has a point given how hard teachers claim to have to work during the holiday periods!
    Will Ms. Jenkyns be working during the summer holidays?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    felix said:

    Speaking of education, from Wednesday, Andrea Jenkyns advises striking teachers:-

    Children suffered enough with their education during lockdown, teachers should put children first and not strike. Why dont they strike during summer holidays when kids wont have to miss lessons!
    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1676702779736309766

    She has a point given how hard teachers claim to have to work during the holiday periods!
    Will Ms. Jenkyns be working during the summer holidays?
    Does she work during term time?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield
    Boris Johnson criticising London's Ultra Low Emission Zone as "an odious, unjustified tax on driving" in the Daily Mail.

    Only snag is he set it up eight years ago ...

    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1677348648730992640?s=20

    Nah that is just an AI inspired lie. Trust the one true and real Boris only!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    For the purposes of BANTZ alone, seeing the Tories reduced to 15 seats would be intensely entertaining

    Imagine the backwoods cranks and weirdos that would survive, like Japs deep in the Indonesian jungle

    I reckon the party would die at that point. New right wing parties would emerge

    If you go full on bantz with Electoral Claculus (50:25 or something bonkers like that plus a slug of tactical voting), and squeeze the Conservatives down to 23 seats, you get:

    Surrey East Claire Coutinho
    Louth and Horncastle Victoria Atkins
    Cotswolds South Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    Arundel and South Downs Andrew Griffith
    Chesham and Amersham Cheryl Gillan
    Dorset North Simon Hoare
    Essex North West Kemi Badenoch
    Surrey Heath Michael Gove
    East Grinstead and Uckfield Unknown (new seat)
    New Forest West Desmond Swayne
    South Holland and The Deepings John Hayes
    Wetherby and Easingwold Alec Shelbrooke
    Stratford-on-Avon Nadhim Zahawi
    Hampshire East Damian Hinds
    Hampshire North East Ranil Jayawardena
    Beaconsfield Joy Morrissey
    Rayleigh and Wickford Mark Francois
    Kingswinford and South Staffordshire Gavin Williamson
    Christchurch Christopher Chope
    Castle Point Rebecca Harris
    Maldon John Whittingdale
    Weald of Kent Unknown (new seat)
    Brentwood and Ongar Alex Burghart
    Exmouth and Exeter East Simon Jupp
    Godalming and Ash Unknown (new seat)
    Dorset Mid and Poole North Michael Tomlinson
    Dumfries and Galloway Alister Jack
    Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Andrew Bowie
    Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey Unknown (changed seat)
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale David Mundell
    Gordon and Buchan Unknown (changed seat)
    Aberdeenshire North and Moray East David Duguid
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk John Lamont

    Good luck getting a shadow cabinet out of that.
    Yeah, we live in Brentwood and Ongar now so would still have a Tory MP in the excellent Alex Burghart even then
    Turned your back on Epping, I see. No wonder you lost your seat on EFDC!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Farooq said:

    COME ON ANDY!

    I'd rather not.
    We are talking about tennis, nothing rude.

    We just want to see Andy lobbing one over Stefanos's head; why do you have to snigger about it?
    Australia now about to give England some Head before Cummins.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    BBC News - Ofcom investigates complaint against GB News over its Don't Kill Cash campaign
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66130773

    Sky News is wall to wall eco campaign platform, with special shows & campaigns dedicated to it. How is that that different?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Smith gone....

    Let me just say this now, its the hope that kills you.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    linto said:

    Don't see how the Scottish government can bring this to fruition but good to see that it is being properly looked at.
    I would welcome the UK government being similarly open and not just instinctively going for the stick that has failed us for the last 50 years.
    https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-government-calls-on-westminster-to-decriminalise-personal-drug-use-12916776

    HMG have already knocked it back. One might almost think it suits them to have the horrendous drug problem in Scotland fester on as they blame the SG for it while abnegating their own responsibility.
    In case anyone was wondering* Reeves has also echoed Rishi’s line on this.

    *Gentle reader, no one was wondering.


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    BBC News - Ofcom investigates complaint against GB News over its Don't Kill Cash campaign
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66130773

    Sky News is wall to wall eco campaign platform, with special shows & campaigns. How us that that different?

    Does anyone know what @Anabobazina does for a day job?

    I'm just wondering if he works for Ofcom...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    Smith gone....

    Let me just say this now, its the hope that kills you.

    I wouldn't know. I lost all hope when Duckett played that cow shot in the first innings at Lord's.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    ydoethur said:

    Smith gone....

    Let me just say this now, its the hope that kills you.

    I wouldn't know. I lost all hope when Duckett played that cow shot in the first innings at Lord's.
    We all know now that England chasing down a getable target will quickly be in the shit, and one legged Stokes will be required to score 150 in 6s to win it.
  • BBC News - Ofcom investigates complaint against GB News over its Don't Kill Cash campaign
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66130773

    Sky News is wall to wall eco campaign platform, with special shows & campaigns dedicated to it. How is that that different?

    That the environment needs to be looked after isn't a matter of public controversy, all parties agree on that principle. Which is why even the monarchy is openly pro-environment. How parties think you need to do so varies, but that the environment matters is not a matter of controversy.

    That cash matters is not unanimously settled opinion. It is a political view and thus out of bounds for a broadcaster to take a view on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023

    BBC News - Ofcom investigates complaint against GB News over its Don't Kill Cash campaign
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66130773

    Sky News is wall to wall eco campaign platform, with special shows & campaigns dedicated to it. How is that that different?

    That the environment needs to be looked after isn't a matter of public controversy, all parties agree on that principle. Which is why even the monarchy is openly pro-environment. How parties think you need to do so varies, but that the environment matters is not a matter of controversy.

    That cash matters is not unanimously settled opinion. It is a political view and thus out of bounds for a broadcaster to take a view on.
    In reality I think it is more likely that a handful of crazies from twitter have complained. Its not the same as the fake news covid stuff they got done for.
  • BBC News - Ofcom investigates complaint against GB News over its Don't Kill Cash campaign
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66130773

    Sky News is wall to wall eco campaign platform, with special shows & campaigns dedicated to it. How is that that different?

    That the environment needs to be looked after isn't a matter of public controversy, all parties agree on that principle. Which is why even the monarchy is openly pro-environment. How parties think you need to do so varies, but that the environment matters is not a matter of controversy.

    That cash matters is not unanimously settled opinion. It is a political view and thus out of bounds for a broadcaster to take a view on.
    In reality I think it is more likely that a handful of crazies from twitter have complained. Its not the same as the fake news covis sruff they got done for.
    That's true with almost all complaints.

    But it doesn't make them wrong.

    And anyway, non-crazies don't watch GB News anyway.
This discussion has been closed.