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The Tories working hard to be the nasty party once again – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 2023
    People should understand that this, any government has no interest in stopping the boats, reducing immigration, or anything which restricts entry to this country in a meaningful way for many people.

    I mean what was that definition of insanity again?

    Since the 10s of thousands of pledges, the Labour "controls on immigration" mugs, Rwanda, mouseless detention centres, and what have you.

    It ain't going to happen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    ydoethur said:

    Unfortunately, from 188-1 at Lord's and arguably also in the second innings at Edgbaston, England's batting has been poor. They simply have not shown enough application. They've made fantastic opportunities and let them slip with dumb shots. Coupled with some very ordinary fielding they have literally thrown away the Ashes. First defeat on home soil since 2001.

    Probably but Stokes can get a 1st innings lead at this rate
    Sighs.

    Why do you lot never learn?

    (And I think we needed a *large* first innings lead if we were to be competitive as tomorrow looks a bad day for batting and pitch maintenance.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    Conservative crossover with Refuk is closer than with Labour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375
    edited July 2023

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    Conservative crossover with Refuk is closer than with Labour.
    Being boiled alive is preferable to being slow sliced.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Both teams completely carried by the non batsmen.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    edited July 2023
    Deleted - Bart already said the same
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/07/study-finds-english-libraries-generate-at-least-34bn-in-yearly-value

    On the wider issue of kicking children in the teeth and stamping on their necks:

    "Libraries in England generate at least £3.4bn in value a year through services supporting children’s literacy, digital inclusion and health, a study has found.

    Researchers at the University of East Anglia discovered that the services that a typical branch provides in a year are worth £1m, and that libraries’ value could equate to six times their running costs."

    We should have ten times as many libraries then. This kind of analysis is always so speculative. in this case they include rates and social care that would otherwise have been delivered anyway.
    Would they ?
    Where, and how, and at what cost ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    Only the most complacent of pensioners - that stubborn rump of owner-occupiers who don’t perceive anything outside the darkened windows of the Daily Mail - still profess to supporting the Tories.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    Forget interest rates, pay rates and the cost of living.

    If Sunak just says "stop the boats" one more time that will turn things around.

    5674th time is the charm.
    If Sunak was serious about stopping the boats, he would employ Transport Scotland.
    Trans Pennine Express managers could be re-employed under a Trans Manche banner.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I actually have no issue with Rwanda on human rights grounds.

    My issue is that it is an expensive and futile boondoggle, dreamed up solely to “own the libs”.

    It ain’t working.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    England aren't a one man team.....they are a one man one legged team.....

    If Stokes hadn't thrown his wicket away...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    We're in the match because our bowlers are better than their bowlers at batting, and quite honestly if you include Stokes better than our own batsmen at batting too.

    Aus top 5 99-5
    Mitch Marsh 118
    Bottom 5 23-5

    Eng top 5 69-5
    Stokes 80
    Bottom 5 67-5
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
  • Remarkable that Travis Head's 39 is the third highest score across the first two innings of this Test.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    Only the most complacent of pensioners - that stubborn rump of owner-occupiers who don’t perceive anything outside the darkened windows of the Daily Mail - still profess to supporting the Tories.

    And HYUFD.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    But that’s the USA.

    Meanwhile, here in the U.K. we’re at the fag end of a tired incompetent government which chances are won’t be in power a year from now. The likely alternative may not be sparkly and exciting, but we’ll settle for competent and dull.

    What are you going to end up with?

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).

    Mm, you'll get the Dawlish coast and Teign Estuary. Is it the direct line? It's a nice trundle past the Crofton pumping station and along the Kennet and Avon Canal.
    Yes, the direct line, and always the great Dawlish warren run.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Pulpstar said:

    We're in the match because our bowlers are better than their bowlers at batting, and quite honestly if you include Stokes better than our own batsmen at batting too.

    Aus top 5 99-5
    Mitch Marsh 118
    Bottom 5 23-5

    Eng top 5 69-5
    Stokes 80
    Bottom 5 67-5

    That's not quite right, as both Marsh and Stokes were out - so 118/1 and 80/1.
  • Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We're in the match because our bowlers are better than their bowlers at batting, and quite honestly if you include Stokes better than our own batsmen at batting too.

    Aus top 5 99-5
    Mitch Marsh 118
    Bottom 5 23-5

    Eng top 5 69-5
    Stokes 80
    Bottom 5 67-5

    That's not quite right, as both Marsh and Stokes were out - so 118/1 and 80/1.
    Indeed, you could suggest our Bottom 5 at 67-4 could have done better than our top 5 at 69-5
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    edited July 2023

    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    Only the most complacent of pensioners - that stubborn rump of owner-occupiers who don’t perceive anything outside the darkened windows of the Daily Mail - still profess to supporting the Tories.

    I expect I will still vote Tory, not because I think they've been good but because I expect the other lot to make it worse. I'd love to have an alternative government which I could see running things better, but I just don't see one. Labour's instinct always appears to be to regulate more, spend more, borrow more, hector more and export less. Not that the Tories have covered themselves in any sort of glory in any of this, it should be stressed.
    Credit to Labour for exploring ways of building more houses, mind you. That sort-of policy announcement, at least, I thought was worthy of consideration. The fact that it wasn't exactly what I would do doesn't alter the fact that it is possibly better than what we have now.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We're in the match because our bowlers are better than their bowlers at batting, and quite honestly if you include Stokes better than our own batsmen at batting too.

    Aus top 5 99-5
    Mitch Marsh 118
    Bottom 5 23-5

    Eng top 5 69-5
    Stokes 80
    Bottom 5 67-5

    That's not quite right, as both Marsh and Stokes were out - so 118/1 and 80/1.
    Your right. That means our bowlers were definitely better than our batsmen averaging 16.75 against 13.8 for the batsmen.

    13.8 ! Shocking.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?

    No.
    Then we'd have no chance in the cricket.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Scott_xP said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    When the world ends I want you there to give a positive spin for the Tories. “YouGov’s last survey before Selby became an irradiated wasteland put the Tories 2% ahead amongst cockroaches and other species most likely to survive a nuclear inferno.”
    The cockroaches though had a higher approval rating...
    And a more humane position on unescorted child refugees.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375

    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?

    Or make Rishi Sunak captain of the Test team?

    Preferably the Aussie test team...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    God love you HYUFD. You will be the last man standing. It's genuinely impressive.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We're in the match because our bowlers are better than their bowlers at batting, and quite honestly if you include Stokes better than our own batsmen at batting too.

    Aus top 5 99-5
    Mitch Marsh 118
    Bottom 5 23-5

    Eng top 5 69-5
    Stokes 80
    Bottom 5 67-5

    That's not quite right, as both Marsh and Stokes were out - so 118/1 and 80/1.
    Your right. That means our bowlers were definitely better than our batsmen averaging 16.75 against 13.8 for the batsmen.

    13.8 ! Shocking.
    With both Robinson and Stokes seeming to be injured and unlikely to bowl much, I wonder if Root will end up having to bowl a fair bit and end up doing more with the ball than he did with the bat?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Nigelb said:

    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?

    No.
    Then we'd have no chance in the cricket.
    2nd jobs are still allowed....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?

    Sunak unlikely to score as many runs if they job swap.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2023
    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    Only the most complacent of pensioners - that stubborn rump of owner-occupiers who don’t perceive anything outside the darkened windows of the Daily Mail - still profess to supporting the Tories.

    And a plurality of Leavers
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    Was that because Major went after the Referendum Party vote?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Can we just make Ben Stokes PM instead?

    Rishi is probably a better test batsman than he is PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Just put my entire fortune* on Australia to win this at the astonishingly generous odds of 1.73. Stokes can barely walk, Robinson can barely move, Wood can only bowl in spells of five overs at a time, Moeen is expensive. Hard to see how we're going to take 10 wickets from here. Come on Joe Root's competent spin!

    *£44.30. The whole of my skybet account.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Bit concerning we're not giving Wood the cherry first up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Cookie said:

    Just put my entire fortune* on Australia to win this at the astonishingly generous odds of 1.73. Stokes can barely walk, Robinson can barely move, Wood can only bowl in spells of five overs at a time, Moeen is expensive. Hard to see how we're going to take 10 wickets from here. Come on Joe Root's competent spin!

    *£44.30. The whole of my skybet account.

    Sounds like a winning bet.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    “Stonewall Law” just keeps getting more expensive:

    BREAKING: Allison Bailey wins 20K costs in rare cost award by employment tribunal, Garden Court fails entirely in costs claim against her.



    https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1677308251057139721?s=20

    £20k is the maximum that can be awarded without a detailed investigation. Garden Court were claiming ~£250k from Bailey
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    Was that because Major went after the Referendum Party vote?
    No because most of the Conservative core vote returned.

    The Referendum Party and UKIP still got almost a million votes combined in 1997 however and cost the Tories several seats
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Oof right into the Khawajas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Bit concerning we're not giving Wood the cherry first up.

    England never open the bowling with Wood...no idea why....who would you rather face 78mph Robinson or 96mph Wood.....yeah bowl the "enforcer" Robbo.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,217

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
    Whilst he's been found out at the top level by being promoted too quickly, a lot of it isn't his fault, really. You could reanimate a fusion of Thatcher, Churchill and Disraeli and they would struggle to lead the Conservative government right now.

    The fallout of N years of poor decisions (where N is somewhere between 1 and 78, possibly more, depending on your political taste) is managing to land on Sunak all at once. Some of it is down to policies and people he has supported, but quite a lot isn't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Nigelb said:

    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)

    12% of his test runs have come from sixes.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)

    12% of his test runs have come from sixes.
    Southee at 25%!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Just put my entire fortune* on Australia to win this at the astonishingly generous odds of 1.73. Stokes can barely walk, Robinson can barely move, Wood can only bowl in spells of five overs at a time, Moeen is expensive. Hard to see how we're going to take 10 wickets from here. Come on Joe Root's competent spin!

    *£44.30. The whole of my skybet account.

    I'm giving you credit for Warner, then.

    (Broad should bring a carrot to hand to him next time.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    David Warner gone to Broad, AGAIN...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    If the Right (in one sense anyway) Honorable (???) wishes to foster a LESS welcoming environment for pint-sized asylum-seekrs, then he ought to order that his official portrait be plastered prominently and frequently in all juvenile alien detention centres?

    Terrified tots would be screaming for immediate deportation . . . on next flight to Orlando . . .

    Giving Gov. Ron DeSantis yet another stick to beat up . . . his own so-called presidential campaign . . .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Warner's average against Broad must be the worst for any opener against any bowler anywhere, ever.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Nigelb said:

    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)

    In terms of sixes per balls faced Southee must be top. Afridi top per match.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    But Blair was a once in a century political genius in the right place at the right time, while Starmer is an overpromoted medocrity in the right place at the right time (so far).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Australia in spot of bother here.

    How many can this England side chase down if they set themselves to it? 250?

    Pitch could get even flatter rather than stay seamy.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited July 2023
    FPT
    viewcode said:

    Peck said:

    Somebody should run a poll in which they include a fake choice just for a laugh.

    They do do this occasionally! It's not for a laugh, it's a way of checking. From memory a fictional individual or party will get about 2-4% in a poll.

    I've just tried googling for this phenom but cannot find it[1]. Can some kind person remind me?

    [1] Google does not work for me as well as it did, and the deterioration is noticable

    Good afternoon Peck
    Thank you for your query of 07Jul2023 in which you mentioned pollsters using fake choices. You may be interested that there is a long history of pollsters using fictional candidates/bills/acts to assess their polls. Please see below for details.

    Fictitious names used by opinion pollsters to check their polls
    * Stewart Lewis
    * Stuart Lewis

    Fictitious bills/acts used by opinion pollsters to check their polls
    * ‘Monetary Control Bill/Act"
    * ‘Agricultural Trade Bill/Act"
    * "Metallic Metals Bill/Act"
    * "Public Affairs Bill/Act"

    Some later became real.

    Links
    * https://twitter.com/jamesrwithers/status/1626652144337096707
    * https://order-order.com/2015/06/18/ipsos-mori-stewart-lewis-polling-surprisingly-well/
    * https://pollingreport.uk/articles/ipsos-moristandard-con-39-lab-30-ld-9-ukip-8-grn-6
    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzrB-koRDGA

    Cites:
    * "Opinions on Fictitious Issues: The Pressure to Answer Survey Questions", Bishop et al (1986), Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2748887
    * "Fictitious Issues Revisited: Political Interest, Knowledge and the Generation of Nonattitudes", Sturgis and Smith (2010), POLITICAL STUDIES: 2010 VOL 58, 66–84, doi: 10.1111/j.1467-9248.2008.00773.x, link http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2008.00773.x/abstract
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    Was that because Major went after the Referendum Party vote?
    No because most of the Conservative core vote returned.

    The Referendum Party and UKIP still got almost a million votes combined in 1997 however and cost the Tories several seats
    So you’re saying that, after Sunak goes after the Reform UK vote, the Tories will lose on a similar scale to 1997, but it will be even worse if they don’t go after the Reform UK vote?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Pulpstar said:

    Warner's average against Broad must be the worst for any opener against any bowler anywhere, ever.

    Broad has got him out 17 times in test cricket.
  • Nigelb said:

    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)

    In terms of sixes per balls faced Southee must be top. Afridi top per match.
    What's remarkable considering how many 6s Stokes has, is just how low his Strike Rate is versus many others on that list.

    Stokes is great because he's a clever player. He can play 'Bazball', but he's equally confident to bat slowly and defend his wicket.
  • Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    But Blair was a once in a century political genius in the right place at the right time, while Starmer is an overpromoted medocrity in the right place at the right time (so far).
    Starmer may be an overpromoted mediocrity, but he's facing an even more overpromoted mediocrity rather than John Major.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited July 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Warner's average against Broad must be the worst for any opener against any bowler anywhere, ever.

    Broad has got him out 17 times in test cricket.
    So one two short of a certain Australian quick and a certain English opener.

    http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerDismissBat.asp?PlayerID=0101
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Nigelb said:

    That is an amazing test record.
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-sixes-in-career-283122

    Only Rohit Sharma, with 70 in only 50 tests, hit at anything like the same rate.

    (And Pant, of course - 55 in 33 - and Afridi, 52 in 27.)

    In terms of sixes per balls faced Southee must be top. Afridi top per match.
    What's remarkable considering how many 6s Stokes has, is just how low his Strike Rate is versus many others on that list.

    Stokes is great because he's a clever player. He can play 'Bazball', but he's equally confident to bat slowly and defend his wicket.
    Pretty sure he has the biggest gap in scoring tempo of any modern batsman by a distance. Struggling to even think of contenders from that list, they are either blast it merchants or just top level all round but steady tempo batters.

    Angelo Matthews maybe closest, but less explosive and less often.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    This is a nice little article which takes a skeptical look at New Labour’s constitutional reform, and potential changes proposed by Gordon Brown - from a left wing perspective.

    https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/july-2023/dont-hobble-the-house/

    I like the point that there’s actually very little reflection on what New Labour’s reforms have delivered and the prudence of going further.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BREAKING: Junior doctor strike in Scotland is off - pay deal of 12.4% agreed with the British Medical Association

    Members to be consulted, so strike action suspended.

    Gov says the deal is worth £61.3m in additional pay for junior doctors. £3.5k increase for new doctors in 23/24


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1677317337907691522?s=20
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    New YouGov Germany poll.

    CDU/CSU 27%
    AfD 21%
    SPD 18%
    Green 14%
    FDP 6%
    Left 6%
    Free Voters 1%
    Others 6%

    https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/1677280239745990656
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Warner's average against Broad must be the worst for any opener against any bowler anywhere, ever.

    Broad has got him out 17 times in test cricket.
    So one two short of a certain Australian quick and a certain English opener.

    http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerDismissBat.asp?PlayerID=0101
    Root is statistically terrible against Cummins too.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Australia in spot of bother here.

    How many can this England side chase down if they set themselves to it? 250?

    Pitch could get even flatter rather than stay seamy.

    All the way through Edgbaston and Lords I was optimistic for England. But I just can't see a way to victory from here I'm afraid.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Just put my entire fortune* on Australia to win this at the astonishingly generous odds of 1.73. Stokes can barely walk, Robinson can barely move, Wood can only bowl in spells of five overs at a time, Moeen is expensive. Hard to see how we're going to take 10 wickets from here. Come on Joe Root's competent spin!

    *£44.30. The whole of my skybet account.

    I'm giving you credit for Warner, then.

    (Broad should bring a carrot to hand to him next time.)
    Broad getting Warner out was almost a given!
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @Omnisis
    , 06 - 07 Jul

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1677304929394864128
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    New YouGov Germany poll.

    CDU/CSU 27%
    AfD 21%
    SPD 18%
    Green 14%
    FDP 6%
    Left 6%
    Free Voters 1%
    Others 6%

    https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/1677280239745990656

    So centre right v nationalist right in Germany. SPD collapsed to 3rd and the other governing parties even further behind
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?

    I don't think Truss and Kwarteng did much for mortgage holders.

    Minimum wage, state pension and benefits all up 10% however
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @Omnisis
    , 06 - 07 Jul

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1677304929394864128

    Conservatives are still the official opposition on these figures.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,830

    Scott_xP said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    When the world ends I want you there to give a positive spin for the Tories. “YouGov’s last survey before Selby became an irradiated wasteland put the Tories 2% ahead amongst cockroaches and other species most likely to survive a nuclear inferno.”
    The cockroaches though had a higher approval rating...
    And a more humane position on unescorted child refugees.
    Apart from nibbling their toes, though.
  • HYUFD said:

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?

    I don't think Truss and Kwarteng did much for mortgage holders.

    Minimum wage, state pension and benefits all up 10% however
    Today's Tory party is a party for those on welfare, just the welfare is the pension.

    Work for a living, and today's Tories don't care about you.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,217
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories get all of those 9% saying RefUK to vote Conservative, ceteris paribus, they still massively lose, 47% to 31%, so by 16%, a bigger margin than the 1997 loss.
    However don't forget Blair's New Labour was polling at 60%+ in a few polls pre 1997, levels Starmer Labour has never reached and ended up with only 43% on polling day 1997
    Those polls (very high Labour figures, big swingback) were done without trying to account for Shy Tories. The only firm doing that properly at the time (Gold Standard ICM) got systematically lower figures mid term (their highest was 53%) and much less swingback.

    Now everyone does some variant of that correction. Labour's peak at the height of the Trusstershambles was 57% and they've just had a poll rating of 51% from Omnisis.

    The future is not ours to see in advance, but right now the Conservatives are doing about as badly, and Labour about as well as in the mid 90s, if we don't compare apples with bananas.

    And the worst of it for the Conservatives? They aren't losing badly to a genius of retail politics, they're losing badly to a boring old lefty lawyer.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,830
    HYUFD said:

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?

    I don't think Truss and Kwarteng did much for mortgage holders.

    Minimum wage, state pension and benefits all up 10% however
    But not in real terms. In fact, rather less, as the past year's massive rise won't have been compensated for properly.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
    Whilst he's been found out at the top level by being promoted too quickly, a lot of it isn't his fault, really. You could reanimate a fusion of Thatcher, Churchill and Disraeli and they would struggle to lead the Conservative government right now.

    The fallout of N years of poor decisions (where N is somewhere between 1 and 78, possibly more, depending on your political taste) is managing to land on Sunak all at once. Some of it is down to policies and people he has supported, but quite a lot isn't.
    But Sunak hasn’t been powerless the last 5 years. As Chief Secretary he was sent out for Conservatives in the last big debate during last election. Before becoming PM he was Chancellor for most of this parliament.

    If UK is trailing most of our equivalent world rivals across range of key economic metrics, growth, inflation, debt, quality of public services, how much of that should he own - just the bit from when he became Primeminister? Likewise, if his own rightwing tribe unhappy with borrowing, debt, interest rates, inflation and levels of tax right now, how much of that should Rishi Sunak own - just the bit since he became Primeminister?

    It’s not just his awful record and unconvincing performances since becoming Primeminister; all things dragging the Tory polling down, years in the making, have Sunak’s fingerprints all over them.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    .

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @Omnisis
    , 06 - 07 Jul

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1677304929394864128

    If you give all the Reform vote to the Tories and plug these numbers into Electoral Calculus, you get Labour 483 to Con 109.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Any more details? source?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
    Nothing to admire there, comparing apples with pears became Psephologicaly embarrassing before I was even born! YouGov fruit has ref and green on 9 at expense of larger parties. Overall picture is this slide for the Tories is becoming alarming now.

    To be analytical, there was a commentary in “I” newspaper this week that Sunak has reshuffle problem because his cabinet is unpopular. I think he hasn’t even been in hot seat a year, much of this is electorate summing him up. I think Sunak is the Tory problem, immaturely over promising and under delivering really turning voters off.

    What made people think Sunak was a wunderkind? His financial decision making in this parliament has been dire.
    Whilst he's been found out at the top level by being promoted too quickly, a lot of it isn't his fault, really. You could reanimate a fusion of Thatcher, Churchill and Disraeli and they would struggle to lead the Conservative government right now.

    The fallout of N years of poor decisions (where N is somewhere between 1 and 78, possibly more, depending on your political taste) is managing to land on Sunak all at once. Some of it is down to policies and people he has supported, but quite a lot isn't.
    But Sunak hasn’t been powerless the last 5 years. As Chief Secretary he was sent out for Conservatives in the last big debate during last election. Before becoming PM he was Chancellor for most of this parliament.

    If UK is trailing most of our equivalent world rivals across range of key economic metrics, growth, inflation, debt, quality of public services, how much of that should he own - just the bit from when he became Primeminister? Likewise, if his own rightwing tribe unhappy with borrowing, debt, interest rates, inflation and levels of tax right now, how much of that should Rishi Sunak own - just the bit since he became Primeminister?

    It’s not just his awful record and unconvincing performances since becoming Primeminister; all things dragging the Tory polling down, years in the making, have Sunak’s fingerprints all over them.
    One of your best posts.
    Rishi supported and then went on to administer, manage, and now leads, the government’s entire economic strategy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Andy_JS said:

    New YouGov Germany poll.

    CDU/CSU 27%
    AfD 21%
    SPD 18%
    Green 14%
    FDP 6%
    Left 6%
    Free Voters 1%
    Others 6%

    https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/1677280239745990656

    The AfD are leading in Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Pomerania, Saxony and Thuringia.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Any more details? source?
    Twitter, obvs.
    People are hastily deleting posts etc.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    "Mickey Mouse Minister orders obliteration of Mickey Mouse Mural"?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    I was so depressed by this morning's cricket that I did some gardening after lunch. Just switched on to find that I've missed the excitement.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Sorry if this should be obvious - but which email?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?

    I don't think Truss and Kwarteng did much for mortgage holders.

    Minimum wage, state pension and benefits all up 10% however
    Today's Tory party is a party for those on welfare, just the welfare is the pension.

    Work for a living, and today's Tories don't care about you.
    Trying to buy or pay off a house?
    Have kids?
    Running a British business?
    Work for a living?

    Then fuck off and join the Labour Party.
  • The weekly polling average is out.



    A good week for Labour gaining from the Conservatives and Lib Dems.

    The weekly average for the Conservatives is the lowest that it has been based on the weekly polls from all these six polling companies (ie December 2022).

    Omnisis this week had Labour on 51%. The last poll with Labour on 51% was Omnisis on 12 May and then before then the next highest was again Omnisis with Labour on 50% at the end of March. For the past 3 months Omnisis has consistently had Labour more than 2% higher than the average.

    Over the same period YouGov has the Conservatives 1.5-3% lower than average.

    As the difference between polling companies is more than the statistical margin of error (6% for Conservatives this week), it is clear that there are particular house effects on the numbers. Consequently the trend for each polling company is worth considering, whilst comparing Conservative % between polling companies is like comparing Granny Smiths and Bramley Apples - they are similar but with noticeable differences.



  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cookie said:

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Sorry if this should be obvious - but which email?
    The one causing excitement last night in Twitter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    “The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey

    Seems that current Conservative HMG and Party is (at best) 0.5 of 3 by this scorecard.

    Seeing as how the only ones mentioned that today's "true" Tories give a hoot about, are mortgage -holding elders?

    I don't think Truss and Kwarteng did much for mortgage holders.

    Minimum wage, state pension and benefits all up 10% however
    Today's Tory party is a party for those on welfare, just the welfare is the pension.

    Work for a living, and today's Tories don't care about you.
    More working for a living than the Tories inherited however.

    8% unemployment under the last Labour government in 2010, now just 4%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @Omnisis
    , 06 - 07 Jul

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1677304929394864128

    We're looking at a January 2025 election with figures like this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    “Stonewall Law” just keeps getting more expensive:

    BREAKING: Allison Bailey wins 20K costs in rare cost award by employment tribunal, Garden Court fails entirely in costs claim against her.



    https://twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1677308251057139721?s=20

    £20k is the maximum that can be awarded without a detailed investigation. Garden Court were claiming ~£250k from Bailey

    But without Lawfare, how can we progress to the enlightened civic settlement that its the modern US?

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941
    Chris said:

    "Mickey Mouse Minister orders obliteration of Mickey Mouse Mural"?

    Mickey Mouse has a Robert Jenrick mural on his wall.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via
    @Omnisis
    , 06 - 07 Jul

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1677304929394864128

    Polls seem to hold steady at 30% Con/Ref 65% Lab/LD/Green. The numbers shift around a bit within those groups.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Cookie said:

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Sorry if this should be obvious - but which email?
    I have added you to THE SECRET CLUB OF THOSE WHO KNOW (see vf.politicalbetting.com). It's not very interesting
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    I look at the polls and I see a country that is fucking traumatised and desperate.

    Only the most complacent of pensioners - that stubborn rump of owner-occupiers who don’t perceive anything outside the darkened windows of the Daily Mail - still profess to supporting the Tories.

    I want to try my "pay undocumented workers hundred of thousands of pounds and give them unlimited leave to remain, while giving them *legal* revenge on those who exploited them" policy.

    I really relish the idea of someone trying to portray that as inhumane.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Apparently the writer of “the email” is some kind of pest. There’s a harassment case.

    Any more details? source?
    Twitter, obvs.
    People are hastily deleting posts etc.
    It was definitely very odd. I couldn't read more than a couple of sentences without losing interest and scrolled down to see a wall of links to tweets.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    The weekly polling average is out.



    A good week for Labour gaining from the Conservatives and Lib Dems.

    The weekly average for the Conservatives is the lowest that it has been based on the weekly polls from all these six polling companies (ie December 2022).

    Omnisis this week had Labour on 51%. The last poll with Labour on 51% was Omnisis on 12 May and then before then the next highest was again Omnisis with Labour on 50% at the end of March. For the past 3 months Omnisis has consistently had Labour more than 2% higher than the average.

    Over the same period YouGov has the Conservatives 1.5-3% lower than average.

    As the difference between polling companies is more than the statistical margin of error (6% for Conservatives this week), it is clear that there are particular house effects on the numbers. Consequently the trend for each polling company is worth considering, whilst comparing Conservative % between polling companies is like comparing Granny Smiths and Bramley Apples - they are similar but with noticeable differences.



    very useful @NickyBreakspear , thank you
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    edited July 2023
    "Five large objects have been photographed on the roof of Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, increasing fears that Russia may be preparing to blow it up."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/07/objects-roof-ukraine-nuclear-plant-fears-russia-attack/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No change in tactics from England.

    I think doubling down on smashing it round the park is probably a good idea at this point in the innings. Wood's going to end up our 3rd highest scorer. Woakes is an allrounder, Wood is a 90 MPH+ pace bowler. He'd have been out for less than 24 with a less aggressive approach.
    Australia are a better side than England atm. It's as simple as that.
    Basically all fielding and confidence. Thats been the difference.
    Taken their chances better and marginally better bowling attack (at least in the first two matches).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    "Mickey Mouse Minister orders obliteration of Mickey Mouse Mural"?

    Mickey Mouse has a Robert Jenrick mural on his wall.
    Well Walt Disney was allegedly rather an admirer of fascism...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Pulpstar said:

    Both teams completely carried by the non batsmen.

    Not really - Marsh is a batsman with three test centuries.
This discussion has been closed.