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The Tories working hard to be the nasty party once again – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited July 2023 in General
The Tories working hard to be the nasty party once again – politicalbetting.com

Ffs. pic.twitter.com/wPfKXmaPh4

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    SKS fans - please don't gloat.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    I hesitate to link to pure filfth on here, but this is a video of a Big Boy giving some rear-end assistance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgH_3dXdOU
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @nicholascecil
    EXCLUSIVE: Labour ahead in Uxbridge and Selby, polls find in by-elections double blow for Rishi Sunak

    https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1677280248201617409?s=20
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour is more trusted than the Conservatives on EVERY issue.

    Which party do voters trust the most on...? (Labour | the Conservatives)

    NHS (41% | 18%)
    Housing (38% | 16%)
    Education (38% | 19%)
    Immigration (30% | 23%)
    The Economy (33% | 27%)
    Ukraine (29% | 27%)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Topping, I recall from university reading that most people will go along with most symptom lists for psych conditions, partly because most of us feel X emotion or have Y quirk at some point.

    Medical student syndrome applies to non-psychological illnesses too. Serious writers on behaviour, persuasion, and social psychology all reference it. Ditto the Werther effect. (That's why newspapers don't describe the details of suicides.)

    To avoid this, I listed (without telling her what it was) the symptom list for psychopathology to my mother and asked how many applied to me. She said all but one and a half out of about 17.

    Quite a high score then! I doubt there's any (sane) person who wouldn't give themselves at least a few ticks for some of the symptoms of the officially defined or almost officially defined personality disorders. A bit of perfectionism get in the way of task completion sometimes? An occasional bit of splitting? A person would be a right gormless sod if they didn't merit any ticks IMO.

    Scoring enough ticks to pass the bar for even one of those disorders is a different matter though.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    I hesitate to link to pure filfth on here, but this is a video of a Big Boy giving some rear-end assistance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgH_3dXdOU

    That's amazing. Working on the century.

    Those boxpok wheels :smiley:

    And the wheelspin!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Disney are shithot on copyright issues so this immediately sprang to mind.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    On topic, it's a genuinely deranged decision.

    And this government simply hasn't a leg to stand on here. Immigration has vastly increased, legal and illegal, under Boris-Liz-Rishi. Simply being inhumane to migrants is pretty much all they have left now (unsurprising really, as they more than any other government I can recall, have massively prioritised optics over substance).

    I don't think the public will be fooled though. Ironically, Rishi's own pledges have spotlighted his governments key failures.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited July 2023
    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.
    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Disney are shithot on copyright issues so this immediately sprang to mind.
    Tell that to the ice cream van and travelling funfair community.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    Harumph. Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is a minor abomination. The through spirit of Pooh is captured by E H Shephard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil
    EXCLUSIVE: Labour ahead in Uxbridge and Selby, polls find in by-elections double blow for Rishi Sunak

    https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1677280248201617409?s=20

    Full S&A tables here:
    https://jlpartners.com/s/Selby_Ainsty_byelection_tables.xlsx

    Interesting that Con leads with males, who are a substantially smaller part of the unweighted sample. It's smallish (500) but the difference is outside MoE (random error) so depends on whether they've got their weighting right.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    The point *was* to stick it to migrant kids though. And in any case, I think as a kinda private building they can paint what they like on the wall? Or will the Disney lawyers start prowling primary schools to tear down felt-pen daubings of Lilo & Stitch?
  • HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories aim for RefUK's 9% then that is what the Tories deserve at the next election.

    9%
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Absurd but reading one report of the mass of cartoonists offering to help I was for some reason reminded of that great cartoon of two soldiers in a WWI trench with one saying to the other: "it's very bad, we're down to our last poet".
  • Wood did not come to play.

    5 wickets with the ball.

    With the bat: 6, 4, 6 first three balls he faced this innings.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    By @Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low. The tits are being tucked back under
    the t-shirt.

    However, LLG 63 plays REFCON 31 is pretty good.

    Yougov clearly have a problem with sampling though because there’s no way REF and Greens are on anything close to 9% and 7%. Oversampling politically hyper-engaged nutters.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Scott_xP said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour is more trusted than the Conservatives on EVERY issue.

    Which party do voters trust the most on...? (Labour | the Conservatives)

    NHS (41% | 18%)
    Housing (38% | 16%)
    Education (38% | 19%)
    Immigration (30% | 23%)
    The Economy (33% | 27%)
    Ukraine (29% | 27%)

    Labour Only 33% on economy, people rating Rishi and his government to sort it out so just 5% behind isn’t great for Labour at all. Not bad, but only 5% lead on what most people will vote on come general election day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited July 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil
    EXCLUSIVE: Labour ahead in Uxbridge and Selby, polls find in by-elections double blow for Rishi Sunak

    https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1677280248201617409?s=20

    Labour only ahead by 8% in Uxbridge though compared to 12% in Selby.

    In fact the 41% Labour are on in Uxbridge is not much higher than the 38% Labour got in Uxbridge in 2019.

    So plenty of scope for the Tories to squeeze undecideds with the ULEZ issue
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    The Conservative difficulty is this.

    There is a proportion of the population that is, for want of a better word, nasty. Selfish, cruel. Lacking the imagination to think that they might ever be at the bottom of the heap through no real fault of their own.

    They're not all Conservatives- think of trade unionists who are happy to screw over other workers to get more of the pie for themselves. And even now, most Conservatives aren't nasty. And most of us reveal streaks of nasty when threatened, and these are threatening times.

    But when a big party is scrabbling round in the low to mid twenties percent in the polls, the temptation to go after the nasty vote is blooming strong. Because they're votes and they're not hard to grab.

    And right now, they're the most reliable votes the Conservatives have got.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    "original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess"

    I shouldn't have put 'I guess' as it's not a guess, but my intention was to point out that is indeed the earliest version, so everything is still covered until 2024. After that it will get more hazy as e.g. a direct copy of the out of copyright one would be fine. Any drawing that wasn't a blatant copy of a later version might be ok too, if argued to be a derived work of the original, rather than of a later, still in copyright, version.

    But anyway, you'd think comms would have put out that the real reason was concern about possible infringement, not making it as grim as possible for you arrivees. Unless the desire was to be seen to be making it as grim as possible for young arrivees.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    It's not a hard line on illegal immigration, you doughnut. It's a hard line on vulnerable, needy, and likely terrified children.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    No change in tactics from England.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Bloody hell

    Mark Wood c Marsh b Cummins 24 (8b 1x4 3x6) SR: 300
  • DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    The Conservative difficulty is this.

    There is a proportion of the population that is, for want of a better word, nasty. Selfish, cruel. Lacking the imagination to think that they might ever be at the bottom of the heap through no real fault of their own.

    They're not all Conservatives- think of trade unionists who are happy to screw over other workers to get more of the pie for themselves. And even now, most Conservatives aren't nasty. And most of us reveal streaks of nasty when threatened, and these are threatening times.

    But when a big party is scrabbling round in the low to mid twenties percent in the polls, the temptation to go after the nasty vote is blooming strong. Because they're votes and they're not hard to grab.

    And right now, they're the most reliable votes the Conservatives have got.
    If you go after the nasty vote you may get it.

    But that's all you'll get. And all you'll deserve.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    Selebian said:

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    "original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess"

    I shouldn't have put 'I guess' as it's not a guess, but my intention was to point out that is indeed the earliest version, so everything is still covered until 2024. After that it will get more hazy as e.g. a direct copy of the out of copyright one would be fine. Any drawing that wasn't a blatant copy of a later version might be ok too, if argued to be a derived work of the original, rather than of a later, still in copyright, version.

    But anyway, you'd think comms would have put out that the real reason was concern about possible infringement, not making it as grim as possible for you arrivees. Unless the desire was to be seen to be making it as grim as possible for young arrivees.
    Though ice cream vans have always managed to deal with the copyright thing by having slightly wrongly-drawn characters.

    From the wonderful John Finnemore:

    https://youtu.be/Lray-9F1WP4
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    TimS said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    By @Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low. The tits are being tucked back under
    the t-shirt.

    However, LLG 63 plays REFCON 31 is pretty good.

    Yougov clearly have a problem with sampling though because there’s no way REF and Greens are on anything close to 9% and 7%. Oversampling politically hyper-engaged nutters.
    What is a Dutch salute? I'm guessing you're not using either of the definitions listed in the Urban Dictionary.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    The Conservative difficulty is this.

    There is a proportion of the population that is, for want of a better word, nasty. Selfish, cruel. Lacking the imagination to think that they might ever be at the bottom of the heap through no real fault of their own.

    They're not all Conservatives- think of trade unionists who are happy to screw over other workers to get more of the pie for themselves. And even now, most Conservatives aren't nasty. And most of us reveal streaks of nasty when threatened, and these are threatening times.

    But when a big party is scrabbling round in the low to mid twenties percent in the polls, the temptation to go after the nasty vote is blooming strong. Because they're votes and they're not hard to grab.

    And right now, they're the most reliable votes the Conservatives have got.
    No there isn't.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil
    EXCLUSIVE: Labour ahead in Uxbridge and Selby, polls find in by-elections double blow for Rishi Sunak

    https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1677280248201617409?s=20

    Labour only ahead by 8% in Uxbridge though compared to 12% in Selby.

    In fact the 41% Labour are on in Uxbridge is not much higher than the 38% Labour got in Uxbridge in 2019.

    So plenty of scope for the Tories to squeeze undecideds with the ULEZ issue
    Sounds like extremely efficient vote distribution. Smaller swing in London, larger one in the marginal provinces. Nice.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215

    DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    The Conservative difficulty is this.

    There is a proportion of the population that is, for want of a better word, nasty. Selfish, cruel. Lacking the imagination to think that they might ever be at the bottom of the heap through no real fault of their own.

    They're not all Conservatives- think of trade unionists who are happy to screw over other workers to get more of the pie for themselves. And even now, most Conservatives aren't nasty. And most of us reveal streaks of nasty when threatened, and these are threatening times.

    But when a big party is scrabbling round in the low to mid twenties percent in the polls, the temptation to go after the nasty vote is blooming strong. Because they're votes and they're not hard to grab.

    And right now, they're the most reliable votes the Conservatives have got.
    If you go after the nasty vote you may get it.

    But that's all you'll get. And all you'll deserve.
    And that's the doom loop the Conservatives are in.

    And why, though they should (surely?) return in time, there's a non-trivial risk that they won't.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited July 2023

    Selebian said:

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    "original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess"

    I shouldn't have put 'I guess' as it's not a guess, but my intention was to point out that is indeed the earliest version, so everything is still covered until 2024. After that it will get more hazy as e.g. a direct copy of the out of copyright one would be fine. Any drawing that wasn't a blatant copy of a later version might be ok too, if argued to be a derived work of the original, rather than of a later, still in copyright, version.

    But anyway, you'd think comms would have put out that the real reason was concern about possible infringement, not making it as grim as possible for you arrivees. Unless the desire was to be seen to be making it as grim as possible for young arrivees.
    Though ice cream vans have always managed to deal with the copyright thing by having slightly wrongly-drawn characters.

    From the wonderful John Finnemore:

    https://youtu.be/Lray-9F1WP4
    Just need to employ whoever does the packaging design for Aldi and Lidl :wink:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories aim for RefUK's 9% then that is what the Tories deserve at the next election.

    9%
    Most of the current Tory voters will also back a harder line on illegal immigration too
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Peck said:

    TimS said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    By @Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low. The tits are being tucked back under
    the t-shirt.

    However, LLG 63 plays REFCON 31 is pretty good.

    Yougov clearly have a problem with sampling though because there’s no way REF and Greens are on anything close to 9% and 7%. Oversampling politically hyper-engaged nutters.
    What is a Dutch salute? I'm guessing you're not using either of the definitions listed in the Urban Dictionary.
    I’ll leave it to the original positor of this polling theory to reveal all.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories aim for RefUK's 9% then that is what the Tories deserve at the next election.

    9%
    Most of the current Tory voters will also back a harder line on illegal immigration too
    Will you?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited July 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    No change in tactics from England.

    I think doubling down on smashing it round the park is probably a good idea at this point in the innings. Wood's going to end up our 3rd highest scorer. Woakes is an allrounder, Wood is a 90 MPH+ pace bowler. He'd have been out for less than 24 with a less aggressive approach.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil
    EXCLUSIVE: Labour ahead in Uxbridge and Selby, polls find in by-elections double blow for Rishi Sunak

    https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1677280248201617409?s=20

    Labour only ahead by 8% in Uxbridge though compared to 12% in Selby.

    In fact the 41% Labour are on in Uxbridge is not much higher than the 38% Labour got in Uxbridge in 2019.

    So plenty of scope for the Tories to squeeze undecideds with the ULEZ issue
    Sounds like extremely efficient vote distribution. Smaller swing in London, larger one in the marginal provinces. Nice.
    The only region of the UK Rishi is polling better than Boris was last summer is in London that is why
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    The Conservative difficulty is this.

    There is a proportion of the population that is, for want of a better word, nasty. Selfish, cruel. Lacking the imagination to think that they might ever be at the bottom of the heap through no real fault of their own.

    They're not all Conservatives- think of trade unionists who are happy to screw over other workers to get more of the pie for themselves. And even now, most Conservatives aren't nasty. And most of us reveal streaks of nasty when threatened, and these are threatening times.

    But when a big party is scrabbling round in the low to mid twenties percent in the polls, the temptation to go after the nasty vote is blooming strong. Because they're votes and they're not hard to grab.

    And right now, they're the most reliable votes the Conservatives have got.
    No there isn't.
    No there isn't what? If I have you right, how do you explain Honest Bob Jenrick?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No change in tactics from England.

    I think doubling down on smashing it round the park is probably a good idea at this point in the innings. Wood's going to end up our 3rd highest scorer. Woakes is an allrounder, Wood is a 90 MPH+ pace bowler. He'd have been out for less than 24 with a less aggressive approach.
    Australia are a better side than England atm. It's as simple as that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    I hesitate to link to pure filfth on here, but this is a video of a Big Boy giving some rear-end assistance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgH_3dXdOU

    Apparently this is the enormous train that stalled, with one diesel loco dead.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No change in tactics from England.

    I think doubling down on smashing it round the park is probably a good idea at this point in the innings. Wood's going to end up our 3rd highest scorer. Woakes is an allrounder, Wood is a 90 MPH+ pace bowler. He'd have been out for less than 24 with a less aggressive approach.
    Absolutely, the afternoon session is already going better than the morning session did to be frank.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No change in tactics from England.

    I think doubling down on smashing it round the park is probably a good idea at this point in the innings. Wood's going to end up our 3rd highest scorer. Woakes is an allrounder, Wood is a 90 MPH+ pace bowler. He'd have been out for less than 24 with a less aggressive approach.
    Australia are a better side than England atm. It's as simple as that.
    Basically all fielding and confidence. Thats been the difference.
  • algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Cookie said:

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    Harumph. Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is a minor abomination. The through spirit of Pooh is captured by E H Shephard.
    DavidL said:

    Commented on this on the last thread. Anyone who thinks that this is a reasonable way to behave really shouldn’t be allowed to take any decisions that affect vulnerable people about anything. Period. They do not have the basic humanity to do so.

    Makes me wonder about their other decisions. Such as the way childrten are schooled and fed. Or adults, for that matter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Swings implied by the opinion polls

    Uxbridge 11.5%
    Selby 24%
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    With RefUK on 9% and tied with the LDs for 3rd in today's Yougov, Jenrick's comments may not show much compassion but will be firmly focused on the hard line on illegal immigration Sunak needs to win back 2019 Conservatives voters now voting Reform

    If the Tories aim for RefUK's 9% then that is what the Tories deserve at the next election.

    9%
    Most of the current Tory voters will also back a harder line on illegal immigration too
    The problem you have is a hard line on boat people which allows in more boat people is counter- intuitive.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Carnyx said:

    I hesitate to link to pure filfth on here, but this is a video of a Big Boy giving some rear-end assistance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgH_3dXdOU

    Apparently this is the enormous train that stalled, with one diesel loco dead.
    Diesels! Pfft! Who needs them?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
    I think describing many conservatives as "nasty" is probably counterproductive for the left.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    IS the high score for Reform just down to sampling? And is HYUFD correct that Sunak simply has to 'bring them back' to the Cons to make his party's figures respectable?

    Maybe so, but maybe not.

    Taking the latter point first:
    It is always worth remembering that the Brexit vote, and UKIP/Reform/Reclaim support, does not draw exclusively from previous Cons. A considerable chunk of that vote is from Labour (remember the Red Wall Con gains). If Reform are on 9%, then even a low ex-Labour figure of 2% means that instead of having a potential 9% gain, Sunak is looking at 5% (7 Con - 2 Lab). Not looking so good.
    Then, as any smaller party activist will tell you, there are odd crossovers all the time on canvassing sheets: the former BNP voter now voting Green, the former LibDem now voting UKIP, and so on. Add another 1% for that, and now the Cons pool is 4%.
    FInally there are the NOTA voters who simply drift away when there's no suitable option available: in other words the Reform voters who won't turn out for the Cons just because that's the 'next best thing'. Those can be really significant in number: say another 2%. That leaves the Cons with 2% to play with, instead of the 9% they 'started with' as a target.
    So, without making any ridiculous estimates, the Con target pool has all but vanished. And I think my estimates, particularly of NOTA voters, are very cautious.

    All of this applies to the question of sampling, plus one other factor. If, as I think we all assume, Reform has hardly reached the awareness of most voters, who tend to be low information between elections, what would the impact be on such a voter of seeing 'Reform' as a party name alongside Con, Lab, LDm and Green? 'Reform' sounds good, right? We all think our political system needs reform? Yes we'd like a party called 'Reform' that presumably wants to reform things. But come election time, and people find out what 'Reform' actually stands for, and it isn't hard to see some voters deciding that the reform they want is the LibDem, or Green, or PC/SNP (all right, not SNP)
    sort of reform.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
    Are you suggesting Farage should go back to someone else's constituency and prepare for government?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    No, even on today's Yougov the Tories still hold 59 seats after the boundary changes

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=22&LAB=47&LIB=9&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.5&SCOTLAB=31.5&SCOTLIB=7.8&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=1.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.4&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
    I think describing many conservatives as "nasty" is probably counterproductive for the left.
    Actually being nasty is far, far more counterproductive, whether it be right or left that are being nasty.

    Calling out Corbyn's antisemitism and nastiness didn't do the Tories any harm. Nor should calling out the Tories nastiness harm Labour.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    No, even on today's Yougov the Tories still hold 59 seats after the boundary changes

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=22&LAB=47&LIB=9&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.5&SCOTLAB=31.5&SCOTLIB=7.8&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=1.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.4&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    So just a flesh wound really.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    I hesitate to link to pure filfth on here, but this is a video of a Big Boy giving some rear-end assistance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgH_3dXdOU

    Apparently this is the enormous train that stalled, with one diesel loco dead.
    Diesels! Pfft! Who needs them?
    "Electric" trains in The Little Book of Department-for-Transport Thought.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    No, even on today's Yougov the Tories still hold 59 seats after the boundary changes

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=22&LAB=47&LIB=9&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.5&SCOTLAB=31.5&SCOTLIB=7.8&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=1.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.4&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    ‘Twould be but a flesh wound!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited July 2023
    TimS said:

    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).

    Mm, you'll get the Dawlish coast and Teign Estuary. Is it the direct line? It's a nice trundle past the Crofton pumping station and along the Kennet and Avon Canal.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    TimS said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    By @Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low. The tits are being tucked back under
    the t-shirt.

    However, LLG 63 plays REFCON 31 is pretty good.

    Yougov clearly have a problem with sampling though because there’s no way REF and Greens are on anything close to 9% and 7%. Oversampling politically hyper-engaged nutters.
    “By Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low.”

    Absolutely. It’s not that size of your LLG what matters, it’s what you do with it.

    Uniform swing models put the Tories around 200 seats. Which HY will be very happy with on GE Nite. The difference between Tories 200+ seats or 160- seats is not a Con v Lab battle.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    If the reporting is genuine, then yes this is utterly vile.

    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    Not quite. The original Steamboat Willie version of the Mouse will expire in 2024, but more recognisable versions of the Mouse including all in colour will still be subject to copyright.

    And yes of course TM still applies.

    A bit like Winnie the Pooh - the original book is already in public domain, but Winnie the Pooh as drawn by Disney is under copyright still.
    "original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess"

    I shouldn't have put 'I guess' as it's not a guess, but my intention was to point out that is indeed the earliest version, so everything is still covered until 2024. After that it will get more hazy as e.g. a direct copy of the out of copyright one would be fine. Any drawing that wasn't a blatant copy of a later version might be ok too, if argued to be a derived work of the original, rather than of a later, still in copyright, version.

    But anyway, you'd think comms would have put out that the real reason was concern about possible infringement, not making it as grim as possible for you arrivees. Unless the desire was to be seen to be making it as grim as possible for young arrivees.
    Though ice cream vans have always managed to deal with the copyright thing by having slightly wrongly-drawn characters.

    From the wonderful John Finnemore:

    https://youtu.be/Lray-9F1WP4
    Just need to employ whoever does the packaging design for Aldi and Lidl :wink:
    And caterpillars.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
    I think describing many conservatives as "nasty" is probably counterproductive for the left.
    It is the centre right describing the govt as nasty on pb today.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    I hate drawing parallels with prior elections (each election is unique) but if the Tories decide to go for the nasty party vote, then Canada 1993 is the only worthy parallel for what should occur.
    The opposite. In Canada 1993 all the 'nasty' vote went to the Reform Party and the Canadian Tories not only lost power to the Liberals but were overtaken as the main party of the right and Opposition by the Reform Party and lost almost all their seats
    I think describing many conservatives as "nasty" is probably counterproductive for the left.
    Actually being nasty is far, far more counterproductive, whether it be right or left that are being nasty.

    Calling out Corbyn's antisemitism and nastiness didn't do the Tories any harm. Nor should calling out the Tories nastiness harm Labour.
    In Sunak, I see a doomed attempt to try to please perceived potential voters by pretending to be something he is not. Similar to how Miliband tried to please perceived potential voters by pretending to be something he is not. Both pandered/ing rather more to the social conservatives than their natural instincts would suggest and putting off social liberals by doing so while also looking weak and dishonest.

    Miliband is much better when he's being honest. Sunak perhaps would be too. Or perhaps he is just an empty suit. If you're going to pretend to be something you're not, you need to be a good liar. Johnson was, of course, the master of that. Blair too, to an extent. Brown also tried and failed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/07/study-finds-english-libraries-generate-at-least-34bn-in-yearly-value

    On the wider issue of kicking children in the teeth and stamping on their necks:

    "Libraries in England generate at least £3.4bn in value a year through services supporting children’s literacy, digital inclusion and health, a study has found.

    Researchers at the University of East Anglia discovered that the services that a typical branch provides in a year are worth £1m, and that libraries’ value could equate to six times their running costs."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    TimS said:

    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).

    If we'd only had some batsmen rather than headless chickens.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    There is a tiny further straw in the wind for Labour (36) against the SNP (33) in the (of course unreliable) Scottish sub sample.
    I think it’s quite possible FPTP is about to deliver one of its unique specials in the next election.
    If you Baxter these figures (which won't happen of course) the Tories end up clinging on in South Holland and the Deepings and not much else.

    No, even on today's Yougov the Tories still hold 59 seats after the boundary changes

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=22&LAB=47&LIB=9&Reform=9&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.5&SCOTLAB=31.5&SCOTLIB=7.8&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=1.3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.4&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    So just a flesh wound really.
    That's on UNS. And as Duke Ellington didn't write, It Don't Mean A Thing If It's Uniform Swing (doo wop doo wop doo wop doo wop doo wop).

    Even 20% LibLab tactical slosh takes the Conservatives down to 42.

    At 50%, they are down to 21, behind both the Lib Dems and the SNP. The Conservative leadership election would be between Jeremy Hunt, Damian Hinds, Sir Gavin Williamson and Mark Francois.

    #justabitof fun
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Selebian said:

    On topic, if the Mousey one was in the mural, then there could have been copyright*/trademark** issues which would have been a much better spin to put on things than sticking it to the migrant kids.

    *original copyright expires in 2024, so all depictions since then would be covered, I guess
    **not sure whether registered trade mark and can't be bothered to check, but I'd expect so

    I don’t think copyright is a slam dunk. You can use copyrighted materials in the U.K. if you can apply one or more of a number of ‘fair dealing’ exceptions to copyright law, which means that certain uses of an artistic work do not require permission from the copyright owner so long as the use is considered to be
    ‘fair’. It’s possible (although this is outside my area) this use could fall within “educational” in that it is intended to create a calmer environment for children out of their native environment to play and learn.

    More relevant, given that no possible commercial advantage was being gained by anyone by this use, it’s hard to see what damage Disney could suffer, and thus what remedy they could claim. Quite the opposite in fact - if anything HMG was freely advertising their products. Does Disney want a situation where every school, youth group etc up and down the U.K. is too scared to put The Mouse on their walls?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    TimS said:

    Peck said:

    TimS said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    Fantastic poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is screwed

    LAB: 47% (+1)
    CON: 22% (-2)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    REF: 9% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @YouGov, 05 - 06 Jul

    By @Moonrabbit Dutch salute standards this is bad for Labour because the Lib Dem score is low. The tits are being tucked back under
    the t-shirt.

    However, LLG 63 plays REFCON 31 is pretty good.

    Yougov clearly have a problem with sampling though because there’s no way REF and Greens are on anything close to 9% and 7%. Oversampling politically hyper-engaged nutters.
    What is a Dutch salute? I'm guessing you're not using either of the definitions listed in the Urban Dictionary.
    I’ll leave it to the original positor of this polling theory to reveal all.
    I’m a bit busy watching the cricket. 😃

    England can end up chasing a smallish total in the 4th innings.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/07/study-finds-english-libraries-generate-at-least-34bn-in-yearly-value

    On the wider issue of kicking children in the teeth and stamping on their necks:

    "Libraries in England generate at least £3.4bn in value a year through services supporting children’s literacy, digital inclusion and health, a study has found.

    Researchers at the University of East Anglia discovered that the services that a typical branch provides in a year are worth £1m, and that libraries’ value could equate to six times their running costs."

    We should have ten times as many libraries then. This kind of analysis is always so speculative. in this case they include rates and social care that would otherwise have been delivered anyway.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited July 2023

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    Forget interest rates, pay rates and the cost of living.

    If Sunak just says "stop the boats" one more time that will turn things around.

    5674th time is the charm.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Omnisis
    1/ With Wimbledon in full swing, Labour smashed it in the polls this week. They’ve served up a 26-point lead over the Tories according to our latest voter intention poll.

    🔴 Lab 51% (+3)
    🔵 Con 25% (-1)
    🟠 LD 8% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 3% (-1)
    ⚪ Ref 5% (-2)
    🟢 Green 5% (NC)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    BJO fans please explain?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    edited July 2023

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    Terrible Dutch Salute there.

    What’s wrong with LLG voters - are they just plain stupid 🤷‍♀️
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    TimS said:

    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).

    We're off to Southwold tomorrow for the weekend. I'm a bit of a connoisseur of the British seaside, and IMV Southwold is the nearest you can get to perfection.

    Sadly I can't get the train there, unless they hurry up and rebuild the Southwold Railway...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    England aren't a one man team.....they are a one man one legged team.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited July 2023
    Unfortunately, from 188-1 at Lord's and arguably also in the second innings at Edgbaston, England's batting has been poor. They simply have not shown enough application. They've made fantastic opportunities and let them slip with dumb shots. Coupled with some very ordinary fielding they have literally thrown away the Ashes. First defeat on home soil since 2001.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited July 2023
    The percentage of 6s in this England innings must be one of the highest in the history of test cricket. Andy Saltzman might have something to say about it later on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    England aren't a one man team.....they are a one man one legged team.....

    Appropriate given they were stumped at Lord's.
  • England aren't a one man team.....they are a one man one legged team.....

    A one legged all-rounder has now scored more runs than the entire batting lineup combined.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    ydoethur said:

    Unfortunately, from 188-1 at Lord's and arguably also in the second innings at Edgbaston, England's batting has been poor. They simply have not shown enough application. They've made fantastic opportunities and let them slip with dumb shots. Coupled with some very ordinary fielding they have literally thrown away the Ashes. First defeat on home soil since 2001.

    Probably but Stokes can get a 1st innings lead at this rate
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Anyone with tickets for Sunday at Headingley is going to be a bit worried that the match will be over by then.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited July 2023
    I mean, if the rumours that Mickey Mouse wears a Robert Jenrick watch are true. then I can see Jenrick's pov.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    England aren't a one man team.....they are a one man one legged team.....

    A one legged all-rounder has now scored more runs than the entire batting lineup combined.
    Herculean efforts from Stokes.
  • HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    I have to admire that response!
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    Forget interest rates, pay rates and the cost of living.

    If Sunak just says "stop the boats" one more time that will turn things around.

    5674th time is the charm.
    If he'd actually been 'stopping the boats' rather than overseeing a significant increase since making his ridiculous pledges, then it might actually have some purchase (even so, it's nowt next to people being hundreds of pounds worse off every month).
  • Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    Under any other leader Lab would be 20% ahead. Hang on...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    TimS said:

    Talking of trains I’m on the 14.03 to Penzance, getting off at Totnes. A definite holiday vibe among the passengers. Beautiful weather today (which should have been good for batting, alas).

    Fools gold weather today sadly 😕 forecast for rest of July is rubbish
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Scott_xP said:

    @RedfieldWilton
    Labour is more trusted than the Conservatives on EVERY issue.

    Which party do voters trust the most on...? (Labour | the Conservatives)

    NHS (41% | 18%)
    Housing (38% | 16%)
    Education (38% | 19%)
    Immigration (30% | 23%)
    The Economy (33% | 27%)
    Ukraine (29% | 27%)

    Ouch. Not that they don't deserve it and some of those are margin of error territory, but that's damning if they can't even win on traditional Tory territory or on Ukraine!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    When the world ends I want you there to give a positive spin for the Tories. “YouGov’s last survey before Selby became an irradiated wasteland put the Tories 2% ahead amongst cockroaches and other species most likely to survive a nuclear inferno.”
    The cockroaches though had a higher approval rating...
  • DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even better poll for SKS Party

    Rishi is even more screwed

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 25% (-1)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    REF: 5% (-2)
    GRN: 5% (-)

    via @Omnisis, 06 - 07 Jul

    25% for the Tories there though is higher than the 22% with Yougov
    When the world ends I want you there to give a positive spin for the Tories. “YouGov’s last survey before Selby became an irradiated wasteland put the Tories 2% ahead amongst cockroaches and other species most likely to survive a nuclear inferno.”
    Either that or he'll be saying that the imminent cockroach takeover of the world is a reason for the Tories to aim for the ReFUK vote.
This discussion has been closed.