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Time to write off a Mid-Beds by-election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,691
    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    You've done more than 99% of people, good for you
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Bob Seely: “Boris had a complicated relationship with the truth, I don’t deny that….”
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Some way for Cash to go before the record:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Young_(Irish_politician)

    Also: winner of the Ironic Surname competition.
    Until it is reveal Young Boozer III is a teetotaler.
    Lest we forget Randy Baumgardener

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Baumgardner#Sexual_Harassment
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    I'd vote in favour of this report, with a few minor reservations.

    But if Johnson gets censured to this degree about this, how did Blair remain in power for years after his lies over Iraq - something that had much greater effect on the country?

    The award for whatabout of the day goes to
    …Mr Whatabout!

    It’s not fair, though, he should stand aside and let others have a go.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited June 2023
    Now Bob Seely, trying ever so hard to chart a middle path and as a consequence damning Johnson all the more…..

    And straying way off topic. They need a button for that, like we have.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    Certainly does a good line in mixed metaphors
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Roger said:

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    Certainly does a good line in mixed metaphors
    I know, I'm struggling not to warm to him as a result.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707
    Roger said:

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    Certainly does a good line in mixed metaphors
    Needs more seagulls and trawlers for my liking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited June 2023
    Sign, Bridgen is next. Talking to an almost empty chamber.

    But he does admit that very few people outside the chamber now trust Boris Johnson
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Evening all :)

    Poor Redfield & Wilton for the Conservatives though the supplementaries could have been a lot worse.

    The England sub sample has Labour on 45%, Conservatives on 27.5%, Liberal Democrats on 13%, Reform on 7% and Greens on 6%. That's a swing of more than 15% from Conservative to Labour and more than 10% from Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    IanB2 said:

    Tory Julian Lewis challenges dinosaur Cash to divide the house, so that it will be made obvious what a minority view he has been expressing.

    I heard Starmer, who by the way is also absent, say there will be a division

    Unless a conservative shouts no then as I understand it a no from anyone who is voting yes will be judged contempt of parliament by the speaker

    Has anyone else heard of this technicality ?
    News to me. Certainly it's commonplace for the opposition to put up tellers for both sides of a vote so as to facilitate it. Generally, and especially on an issue like this, the Speaker will want the House to express an opinion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    IanB2 said:

    Sign, Bridgen is next. Talking to an almost empty chamber.

    Probably the illuminati thought police driving everyone away from him, or whatever he dribbles on about thesedays.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sign, Bridgen is next. Talking to an almost empty chamber.

    Probably the illuminati thought police driving everyone away from him, or whatever he dribbles on about thesedays.
    He’s making an anti-lockdown, anti-Johnson speech, on behalf of his new party Reclaim.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited June 2023
    I don't agree he might have become a grandee, but he did look as though he might have been able to be a relatively independent figure, with a focus on knowledge about the arcane procedures of the House.

    As it is, he junked that in to completely make up new constitutional concepts (like how it's outragous for MPs to remove a PM - not that it was wrong, but they shouldn't be able to) in slavish devotion to a man who didn't even trust him with a meaningful Cabinet post (being Leader of the Commons for years, and then an 'attends Cabinet' minister of state makework job). It was Truss who gave him an actual department to run, Boris did not trust him with one.

    One startling thing about Rees-Mogg is how far he has fallen from what once seemed to be his own ideals. There was a time when he looked destined to be a grandee. A figure who could be Speaker, even. Preposterous, but authoritative. But instead, he chose hyper-partisan hackery.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1670858214613581825
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240
    IanB2 said:

    Now Bob Seely, trying ever so hard to chart a middle path and as a consequence damning Johnson all the more…..

    And straying way off topic. They need a button for that, like we have.

    Only if we can get them for hesitation and repetition as well, and have the ghost of Nicholas Parsons as Speaker;

    "I'm sorry Jacob, but the audience didn't like your challenge there. So that's a bonus point to Harriet and she keeps the topic, which is 'Why Boris Johnson is a stinky liar'..."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sign, Bridgen is next. Talking to an almost empty chamber.

    Probably the illuminati thought police driving everyone away from him, or whatever he dribbles on about thesedays.
    He’s making an anti-lockdown, anti-Johnson speech, on behalf of his new party Reclaim.
    I have good news for him, as we are not in lockdown and we no longer have Boris in parliament, so he's already acheived his political goals then.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kle4 said:

    I don't agree he might have become a grandee, but he did look as though he might have been able to be a relatively independent figure, with a focus on knowledge about the arcane procedures of the House.

    As it is, he junked that in to completely make up new constitutional concepts (like how it's outragous for MPs to remove a PM) in slavish devotion to a man who didn't even trust him with a meaningful Cabinet post (being Leader of the Commons for years, and then an 'attends Cabinet' minister of state makework job). It was Truss who gave him an actual department to run, Boris did not trust him with one.

    One startling thing about Rees-Mogg is how far he has fallen from what once seemed to be his own ideals. There was a time when he looked destined to be a grandee. A figure who could be Speaker, even. Preposterous, but authoritative. But instead, he chose hyper-partisan hackery.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1670858214613581825

    Yep. But he’s such an obvious tw*t that he always was going to have a significantly time-limited spot in the limelight, which even he can sense is now drawing to an end.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited June 2023
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I don't agree he might have become a grandee, but he did look as though he might have been able to be a relatively independent figure, with a focus on knowledge about the arcane procedures of the House.

    As it is, he junked that in to completely make up new constitutional concepts (like how it's outragous for MPs to remove a PM) in slavish devotion to a man who didn't even trust him with a meaningful Cabinet post (being Leader of the Commons for years, and then an 'attends Cabinet' minister of state makework job). It was Truss who gave him an actual department to run, Boris did not trust him with one.

    One startling thing about Rees-Mogg is how far he has fallen from what once seemed to be his own ideals. There was a time when he looked destined to be a grandee. A figure who could be Speaker, even. Preposterous, but authoritative. But instead, he chose hyper-partisan hackery.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1670858214613581825

    Yep. But he’s such an obvious tw*t that he always was going to have a significantly time-limited spot in the limelight, which even he can sense is now drawing to an end.
    Several MPs carve out a niche as being that odd fellow pootling about for decades on the backbenches, and the unconventional ones can find external outlets to be a hero to, the libertarian crowd for example, or the radical left for Corbyn. He doesn't need limelight, and even when his faction was in power he had no major position, so he should have chosen a more dignified path.

    If he wanted to be a political snake but respected as a significant operator he should have gone the Govian route a long time ago.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Have we done the last four polls which seem to be edging Labour up to 20% leads?

    He was warned that promoting Suella wasn't going to make him look very desirable however much he spends on his suits

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    I wonder if May will actually stick around for the next election now Boris is gone. She might worry he will come back so she has to be there just in case.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
    It is at the start but you get used to it very quickly.

    I've never been good at waking up early, so this way I cover myself if I don't
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if May will actually stick around for the next election now Boris is gone. She might worry he will come back so she has to be there just in case.

    If we hear nothing to the contrary then we must assume that she will both stand and is likely to win - although I did read somewhere that the Lib Dems fancy their chances of wearing down the Tory majority in Maidenhead and capturing it in the election after next. Time will tell.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    edited June 2023
    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    I wonder if May will actually stick around for the next election now Boris is gone. She might worry he will come back so she has to be there just in case.

    If we hear nothing to the contrary then we must assume that she will both stand and is likely to win - although I did read somewhere that the Lib Dems fancy their chances of wearing down the Tory majority in Maidenhead and capturing it in the election after next. Time will tell.
    In the counterfactual where Remain had narrowly won the referendum, May would probably have beaten Osborne easily to win the leadership election after Cameron and might still be a relatively popular PM now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2023

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
    It is at the start but you get used to it very quickly.

    I've never been good at waking up early, so this way I cover myself if I don't
    I tend to run at 630ish.

    But it gets too hot in summer here. It’s possible I won’t run in July at all. In fact, I must be one of the few people who tends to put on weight in summer and lose it in winter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    I was really pleased to welcome @SwedishPM Ulf Kristersson to Downing Street today.

    We are historic friends and essential allies
    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1670869553528598528?s=20
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317
    In response to @Sandpit - "Genuine question, what’s your view on the suggestion that Starmer let Jimmy Savile off when he was DPP? Interested in how the process works at that level."

    This allegation by the Tories is based on a misapprehension of the DPP's powers. The DPP is not like an investigating magistrate able to order the police and commission investigations. The reason Savile was not charged was because the police never properly investigated him and so were never in a position where they had sufficient evidence to allow the CPS to lay charges against him. Starmer was never in a position where he could order the police to go and find evidence.

    The relationship between Savile and the police was a cosy one. He groomed them to protect himself. The attacks on Starmer over this are misplaced. There are better attacks to be made of Starmer over his actions as DPP.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,691
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Nah I acclimatise quickly and then I can run in up to 30 as previous years
    Sounds excessively sticky, but I've never been a fan of hot weather anyway.

    pigeon said:

    6K in tonight in the relative heat, shins behaving

    It'd be a lot more comfortable if you went out at five o'clock in the morning. It's the right time of year and the right conditions for it :smile:
    Yeah, I did my short runs early in the morning last week. I haven't done any long runs as the heat is just too oppressive - and I've missed my objective for the year anyway. :(
    Spare a thought for the chronically crocked: I've only just progressed from the misery of run/walking and back onto continuous running - and I'm still only allowed to do that for a limited distance, three times a week. The loss of fitness hasn't been catastrophic, but that's noticeable as well. Think it'll be at least August before I can race again, and I dread to think what my times are going to be like even then.
    I do spare a thought for them: I was chronically crocked (could not walk at times) between the ages of 13 and 25. It's why I'm keen not to stress times - in that "I ran a 10K in 45 minutes!" (*), but just that I did the distance.

    The external competitive aspect of leisure running is utterly counter-productive IMO. If you are an amateur you are not competing against others; you are competing against yourself.

    My son is now at just under 70 junior parkruns. He's not won a single one, and has been at the back on two occasions when the field has been sparse. But he turns up week after week and plods away. I'm prouder of him than if he had turned up for 5 and won 2.

    We all do what we can. we cannot all be record breaker, but they key thing is to stretch yourself in whatever ways you can; physically or mentally.

    (*) Which I never have.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Cyclefree said:

    In response to @Sandpit - "Genuine question, what’s your view on the suggestion that Starmer let Jimmy Savile off when he was DPP? Interested in how the process works at that level."

    This allegation by the Tories is based on a misapprehension of the DPP's powers. The DPP is not like an investigating magistrate able to order the police and commission investigations. The reason Savile was not charged was because the police never properly investigated him and so were never in a position where they had sufficient evidence to allow the CPS to lay charges against him. Starmer was never in a position where he could order the police to go and find evidence.

    The relationship between Savile and the police was a cosy one. He groomed them to protect himself. The attacks on Starmer over this are misplaced. There are better attacks to be made of Starmer over his actions as DPP.

    More utter bollocks from the mouth of Boris Johnson.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240
    HYUFD said:

    I was really pleased to welcome @SwedishPM Ulf Kristersson to Downing Street today.

    We are historic friends and essential allies
    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1670869553528598528?s=20

    I'm sure Rishi could have arranged to pop down to Parliament for ten minutes or so.

    The Killing is still available on iplayer.

    At least Boris arranged to be out of the country when he wanted to skip an embarassing vote.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    The dogs won't be barking or biting, but will be pissing up those trees.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    IanB2 said:

    Bob Seely: “Boris had a complicated relationship with the truth, I don’t deny that….”

    Boris actually has [present tense] a very simple relationship with the truth.

    Non-existent.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Some way for Cash to go before the record:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Young_(Irish_politician)

    Also: winner of the Ironic Surname competition.
    Until it is revealed Young Boozer III is a teetotaler.
    Great Boo's up!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bob Seely: “Boris had a complicated relationship with the truth, I don’t deny that….”

    Boris actually has [present tense] a very simple relationship with the truth.

    Non-existent.
    More like antagonistic.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    This thread has sent in the night-watchman
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,801
    FF43 said:

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    The dogs won't be barking or biting, but will be pissing up those trees.
    Dry humping them, more like...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edited June 2023

    Breaking - AP (via Seattle Times) - Search underway for missing submersible that takes people to see Titanic

    A search is underway for a missing submersible that carries people to view the wreckage of the Titanic, according to media reports.

    The U.S. Coast Guard told BBC News that a search was underway Monday off the coast of Newfoundland. OceanGate Expeditions confirmed it owned the missing vessel.

    “We are exploring and mobilising all options to bring the crew back safely,” the company said in a statement to BBC News. “Our entire focus is on the crewmembers in the submersible and their families.”

    The U.S. Coast Guard in Boston did not immediately return messages sent by The Associated Press. However, the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Halifax, Nova Scotia, said a Canadian military aircraft and a Canadian Coast Guard vessel are assisting the search effort, which is being led by the U.S. Coast Guard.

    In 2021, OceanGate Expeditions began what it expected to become an annual voyage to chronicle the deterioration of the iconic ocean liner that struck an iceberg and sank in 1912.

    The company said at the time that in addition to archaeologists and marine biologists, the expeditions also would include roughly 40 paid tourists who would take turns operating sonar equipment and performing other tasks in the five-person submersible.

    The initial group of tourists was funding the expedition by spending anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 apiece.

    This sad story is important. (I say 'sad', as I fear that it's not going to end well).

    There is a growing trend of people doing dangerous things, with the idea - or image - that they are safe. Whether it is going down to the Titanic as a tourist, or going to space, there are dangers that should not be ignored. After the Challenger disaster, NASA was rightly criticised because the risks of spaceflight had not been correctly passed onto astronauts. The same may well be sadly true of these private companies.
    Virgin Galactic is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Blue Origins suborbital system is decently engineered, though the flight rate is strangely low.

    Soyuz has increasing quality problems.

    Dragon/F9 is tested to a reasonable extent.

    Orion will never fly enough to be properly tested

    Starliner has an ugly vibe of continuing issues

    Dreamchaser isn’t ready yet
    That's all fair.

    I'd also add that the Chinese Shenzhou system has had about 15 flights, mostly crewed, with no failures.
    That they’ve admitted.

    We now know that a lot of Shuttle missions came very very close to disaster. Hell, John Young said if he’d had the full cockpit data on the body flap problem on the first launch, he would have aborted.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,691

    Breaking - AP (via Seattle Times) - Search underway for missing submersible that takes people to see Titanic

    A search is underway for a missing submersible that carries people to view the wreckage of the Titanic, according to media reports.

    The U.S. Coast Guard told BBC News that a search was underway Monday off the coast of Newfoundland. OceanGate Expeditions confirmed it owned the missing vessel.

    “We are exploring and mobilising all options to bring the crew back safely,” the company said in a statement to BBC News. “Our entire focus is on the crewmembers in the submersible and their families.”

    The U.S. Coast Guard in Boston did not immediately return messages sent by The Associated Press. However, the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Halifax, Nova Scotia, said a Canadian military aircraft and a Canadian Coast Guard vessel are assisting the search effort, which is being led by the U.S. Coast Guard.

    In 2021, OceanGate Expeditions began what it expected to become an annual voyage to chronicle the deterioration of the iconic ocean liner that struck an iceberg and sank in 1912.

    The company said at the time that in addition to archaeologists and marine biologists, the expeditions also would include roughly 40 paid tourists who would take turns operating sonar equipment and performing other tasks in the five-person submersible.

    The initial group of tourists was funding the expedition by spending anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 apiece.

    This sad story is important. (I say 'sad', as I fear that it's not going to end well).

    There is a growing trend of people doing dangerous things, with the idea - or image - that they are safe. Whether it is going down to the Titanic as a tourist, or going to space, there are dangers that should not be ignored. After the Challenger disaster, NASA was rightly criticised because the risks of spaceflight had not been correctly passed onto astronauts. The same may well be sadly true of these private companies.
    Virgin Galactic is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Blue Origins suborbital system is decently engineered, though the flight rate is strangely low.

    Soyuz has increasing quality problems.

    Dragon/F9 is tested to a reasonable extent.

    Orion will never fly enough to be properly tested

    Starliner has an ugly vibe of continuing issues

    Dreamchaser isn’t ready yet
    That's all fair.

    I'd also add that the Chinese Shenzhou system has had about 15 flights, mostly crewed, with no failures.
    That they’ve admitted.

    We now know that a lot of Shuttle missions came very very close to disaster. Hell, John Young said if he’d had the full cockpit data on the body flap problem on the first launch, he would have aborted.
    We'd know if they'd had a failure on a crewed mission. This isn't the 1960s.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    I'd vote in favour of this report, with a few minor reservations.

    But if Johnson gets censured to this degree about this, how did Blair remain in power for years after his lies over Iraq - something that had much greater effect on the country?

    The award for whatabout of the day goes to
    🤣

    But did Boris eat a curry?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    RESPECT LOL.

    Sir Bill Cash tells the Commons: “Those who say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on miss the wood for the trees. The caravan of this House, having moved on, will certainly come back, and then the dogs will not only merely bark, but they will bite.”

    Me neither.


    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1670855828050526208

    Not so much cash as American Express.

    Idolised in certain quarters but nobody else likes them or can see the point.
    Suddenly Anabob’s desire for a Cashless society is looking great.
    I wouldn’t ban Cash - I just think he’s pointless, outdated and stupid.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,317

    Margaret Hodge talking about speaking truth to power.

    Tell that to the victims of child abuse at Islington Council.

    Well said! Another steaming great hypocrite.

    The White Report into the Islington child homes scandal is here - https://islingtonsurvivorsnetwork2.files.wordpress.com/2021/03/the-white-report-redacted.pdf
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Theresa May next!

    Will vote in favour; commends the committee. Looks like she is taking on the challenge of rising above the minutiae…

    “debate strikes at the heart of the bond of trust between the public and this parliament”

    Tobias Elwood intervenes to indicate his support.

    May: “with leadership comes responsibility….”

    Yes, May just confirmed she will vote in favour of the report condemning Boris.

    I am sure the former PM will enjoy every moment of it too!
    And so she should. Amuses me that Johnson expected loyalty to him but has never shown loyalty to anyone else, including his own family
    Loyalty to people is a mugs' game. You're just giving them license to use you as a doormat. If you ever face a choice between abandoning a well-thought-out principle at the request of a person, treat the person as though they've been grooming you. Otherwise you'll be left clearing up the mess they caused you to make, looking like a twat because you knew better but did the wrong thing anyway.
    Okay not implying any judgement here..I have always assumed you to be fairly left wing. Is not what you are saying pretty right wing here....loyalty to self over loyalty to the collective. I am genuinely asking because to me left wing thought is you dont matter and you should subjugate what you want for the greater good?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    kle4 said:

    I don't agree he might have become a grandee, but he did look as though he might have been able to be a relatively independent figure, with a focus on knowledge about the arcane procedures of the House.

    As it is, he junked that in to completely make up new constitutional concepts (like how it's outragous for MPs to remove a PM - not that it was wrong, but they shouldn't be able to) in slavish devotion to a man who didn't even trust him with a meaningful Cabinet post (being Leader of the Commons for years, and then an 'attends Cabinet' minister of state makework job). It was Truss who gave him an actual department to run, Boris did not trust him with one.

    One startling thing about Rees-Mogg is how far he has fallen from what once seemed to be his own ideals. There was a time when he looked destined to be a grandee. A figure who could be Speaker, even. Preposterous, but authoritative. But instead, he chose hyper-partisan hackery.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1670858214613581825

    Hugo Rifkind accusing someone else of partisan hackery is gamey to say the least.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Cyclefree said:

    In response to @Sandpit - "Genuine question, what’s your view on the suggestion that Starmer let Jimmy Savile off when he was DPP? Interested in how the process works at that level."

    This allegation by the Tories is based on a misapprehension of the DPP's powers. The DPP is not like an investigating magistrate able to order the police and commission investigations. The reason Savile was not charged was because the police never properly investigated him and so were never in a position where they had sufficient evidence to allow the CPS to lay charges against him. Starmer was never in a position where he could order the police to go and find evidence.

    The relationship between Savile and the police was a cosy one. He groomed them to protect himself. The attacks on Starmer over this are misplaced. There are better attacks to be made of Starmer over his actions as DPP.

    Thank you, makes sense now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fury at Reclaim leader Lawrence Fox after he burns LGBTQ+ flags in his garden in Pride month
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12210047/Laurence-Fox-burns-LGBT-bunting-garden-Pride-Month-disgusting.html

    I'm beginning to wonder if some of these right wing populists aren't very nice people at all.
    The whole “Pride Month” in the US, has blown up in quite spectacular fashion, with a number of riots, and large corporates trying to distance themselves from the extremists on both sides.

    It’s turned from a celebration of gay rights into a movement that, to its opponents, appears to be aimed specifically at children, prompting a backlash from more socially conservative parents.
    Because the Republican Party, unable to offer any solutions to America’s problems, has deliberately ramped up culture wars and lies about Pride Month.
    It wasn’t the Republican Party who proposed the legislation in California, that proposes to remove children from their parents, into the care of the State, if the parents disagree with the gender transition process of pre-pubescent children.

    It wasn’t the Republican Party who decided that sex shows in front of primary school children were now somehow okay, so long as the performers were in drag.

    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1669469433025159169
    It was the Republican Party that convinced you that anyone was doing sex shows in front of primary children.
    Nope, it was the sex workers putting on shows in front of children, that convinced me that people were doing sex shows in front of children.
    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1666142149732192257
    The entire raison d'etre of libsoftiktok is to take either fake or out of context videos and put the worst spin on them and claim it is evidence of children viewing sex shows.

    Pride was not originally a "celebration of gay rights" it was always a protest against oppression and heteronormativity, and has always had shouts of "what about straight pride month" or "why do they need a whole month" from people who (whilst not saying it out loud) probably don't like gay people that much.

    This is all clearly a manufactured outrage created in a post same-sex marriage, post Roe environment where the GOP keep trying to find wedge culture issues to divide people and keep the most violent members of their base riled up to do random acts of terror. Trump in the 2016 primary got on stage with a pride flag and made the argument that protecting LGBT+ people was important because only those evil Muslims want to hurt the gays, whilst the US is all for freedom. If he did that now he'd be called a groomer. (He also noted at a recent rally that people clapped more when he mentioned trans people than they did for tax cuts or other things, and that 5 years ago people didn't care and had never heard about the trans issue).

    If you like tiktok so much as a source, maybe you should look up this lawyer who has started doing a weekly round up of individuals arrested for child sex abuse and noting their occupation / relation to their victim (lots of pastors, priests and even police - no drag queens):

    https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/03/17/kristen-prata-browde-tiktok-drag-queens-child-sex-abuse/

    The groomer rhetoric is projection - US conservatives love grooming, and are more than happy for adults to marry 14 year olds and consummate the marriage, or carry their rapists baby to term, or give fathers the ultimate power over the family (considering that the vast majority of child sexual abuse happens within the family and not outside of it). Indeed you need only look at examples like the Duggar's where one of the sons was sexually abusing his sisters and they and the church covered it up and blamed the girls for being too enticing to him. The inability for conservatives to really confront where most child sexual abuse happens - the conservative bastions of the family and the church - forces them to create fake enemies who must really be the perpetrators for them to blame. And it always happens to be people they hate anyway; what a surprise!
    The LibsOfTikTok account is publishing nothing original, simply re-publishing what these people themselves post, but for a different audience.
    Accounts like LibsOfTikTok (on all sides of the political debate) are essentially brain cancer. They're uninformative, damaging and extremist. I try to keep away from them.
    It’s also really important that we can see what others are saying, especially to relatively small audiences on social media.

    This account originally spent most of its time reporting what teachers were saying to children, with a very large contrast to what the parents of these same children were expecting.
    It's bullshit. I mean, the other week you came out with a claim that Budweiser's parent company's share price had 'crashed'. Which it had not, by any objective measure. Where did you get that misinformation from, except from such horseshit channels?

    And that's the problem you need to be careful of - and that goes for me as much as it does you, or anyone else.
    The stock price dropped 10% in a week, at the end of April. It’s dropped nearly 20% since then, with sales of the Bud Light range down nearly 30%.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,691
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fury at Reclaim leader Lawrence Fox after he burns LGBTQ+ flags in his garden in Pride month
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12210047/Laurence-Fox-burns-LGBT-bunting-garden-Pride-Month-disgusting.html

    I'm beginning to wonder if some of these right wing populists aren't very nice people at all.
    The whole “Pride Month” in the US, has blown up in quite spectacular fashion, with a number of riots, and large corporates trying to distance themselves from the extremists on both sides.

    It’s turned from a celebration of gay rights into a movement that, to its opponents, appears to be aimed specifically at children, prompting a backlash from more socially conservative parents.
    Because the Republican Party, unable to offer any solutions to America’s problems, has deliberately ramped up culture wars and lies about Pride Month.
    It wasn’t the Republican Party who proposed the legislation in California, that proposes to remove children from their parents, into the care of the State, if the parents disagree with the gender transition process of pre-pubescent children.

    It wasn’t the Republican Party who decided that sex shows in front of primary school children were now somehow okay, so long as the performers were in drag.

    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1669469433025159169
    It was the Republican Party that convinced you that anyone was doing sex shows in front of primary children.
    Nope, it was the sex workers putting on shows in front of children, that convinced me that people were doing sex shows in front of children.
    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1666142149732192257
    The entire raison d'etre of libsoftiktok is to take either fake or out of context videos and put the worst spin on them and claim it is evidence of children viewing sex shows.

    Pride was not originally a "celebration of gay rights" it was always a protest against oppression and heteronormativity, and has always had shouts of "what about straight pride month" or "why do they need a whole month" from people who (whilst not saying it out loud) probably don't like gay people that much.

    This is all clearly a manufactured outrage created in a post same-sex marriage, post Roe environment where the GOP keep trying to find wedge culture issues to divide people and keep the most violent members of their base riled up to do random acts of terror. Trump in the 2016 primary got on stage with a pride flag and made the argument that protecting LGBT+ people was important because only those evil Muslims want to hurt the gays, whilst the US is all for freedom. If he did that now he'd be called a groomer. (He also noted at a recent rally that people clapped more when he mentioned trans people than they did for tax cuts or other things, and that 5 years ago people didn't care and had never heard about the trans issue).

    If you like tiktok so much as a source, maybe you should look up this lawyer who has started doing a weekly round up of individuals arrested for child sex abuse and noting their occupation / relation to their victim (lots of pastors, priests and even police - no drag queens):

    https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/03/17/kristen-prata-browde-tiktok-drag-queens-child-sex-abuse/

    The groomer rhetoric is projection - US conservatives love grooming, and are more than happy for adults to marry 14 year olds and consummate the marriage, or carry their rapists baby to term, or give fathers the ultimate power over the family (considering that the vast majority of child sexual abuse happens within the family and not outside of it). Indeed you need only look at examples like the Duggar's where one of the sons was sexually abusing his sisters and they and the church covered it up and blamed the girls for being too enticing to him. The inability for conservatives to really confront where most child sexual abuse happens - the conservative bastions of the family and the church - forces them to create fake enemies who must really be the perpetrators for them to blame. And it always happens to be people they hate anyway; what a surprise!
    The LibsOfTikTok account is publishing nothing original, simply re-publishing what these people themselves post, but for a different audience.
    Accounts like LibsOfTikTok (on all sides of the political debate) are essentially brain cancer. They're uninformative, damaging and extremist. I try to keep away from them.
    It’s also really important that we can see what others are saying, especially to relatively small audiences on social media.

    This account originally spent most of its time reporting what teachers were saying to children, with a very large contrast to what the parents of these same children were expecting.
    It's bullshit. I mean, the other week you came out with a claim that Budweiser's parent company's share price had 'crashed'. Which it had not, by any objective measure. Where did you get that misinformation from, except from such horseshit channels?

    And that's the problem you need to be careful of - and that goes for me as much as it does you, or anyone else.
    The stock price dropped 10% in a week, at the end of April. It’s dropped nearly 20% since then, with sales of the Bud Light range down nearly 30%.
    Coming back to this *very* late, as I've only just seen it, but you really need to look at the variability in their share price. IMV you're seeing a false correlation.
This discussion has been closed.