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Why This Fight? Why Now? – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I’ve only been there once, but did Airbnb, and it was great. FWIW.

    Do not miss visiting the Gulbenkian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
    Also. Read The Prize before you visit.
    The Lusiads are also quite an interesting tale, and give a perspective on the country's history.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes. And it isn't even treated as a disease, even though it clearly is one.

    The NHS won't provide any care for a dementia sufferer, but if you get cancer, it is a different matter.

    I know it will be expensive, but there needs to be an equitable solution instead of a lottery.
    But Dementia is treated as a disease by the NHS.

    If someone winds up in Social Care because of a stroke, or blindness or Schizophrenia, they also have to pay for it.
    All part of a broader discussion as to the extent to which the severely ill or disabled should receive help to cope with their misfortune, and the extent to which they should be left to fend for themselves. There are, as always, no easy answers.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Thanks all, we plan to go for 4 days to Lisbon, what should we do in that time?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    When I first got together with my now wife I watched that shit on a Friday night. The only film worse we saw together was Ps I Love You.
    This seems ripe for a "Worst film you've ever seen in the cinema" series.

    For me - "Triple Bogey on a Par Five Hole". Apart from being awful, when I walked - as the single viewer - into the room the ticket person asked in confidential tones ".... Are you... sure?".
    Easy peasy:

    The four worst, all of which were so bad I couldn't make it through to the end, were:

    - The Da Vinci Code
    - Wimbledon
    - Boat Trip
    - Second Exotic Marigold Yawnfest

    You saw the first and went back for more ??
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    Avoid holidays in Canada.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    So what you are saying is that…

    I should wait until November before I re-mortgage rather than lock in now?

    To be honest, that was my plan anyway.
    I think inflation has been surprisingly tenacious, but once it falls it will fall rapidly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I’ve only been there once, but did Airbnb, and it was great. FWIW.

    Do not miss visiting the Gulbenkian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
    Also. Read The Prize before you visit.
    Not a quick read.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Some of us were saying as much even before the BoE raised base rates which were the wrong tool to fight commodity price shocks (even if they might have been needed to defend exchange rates).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Handy backdrop for the PM to an election in autumn 2024....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Thanks all, we plan to go for 4 days to Lisbon, what should we do in that time?

    Gulbenkian
    Custard tarts
    Cascais
    Sintra
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    My children have full power of attorney over both of us and our funeral plans are in our wills

    Practical measures but we do intend to try to stay around a wee while longer but we have been very blessed with a wonderful family and 5 adorable grandchildren
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    My children have full power of attorney over both of us and our funeral plans are in our wills

    Practical measures but we do intend to try to stay around a wee while longer but we have been very blessed with a wonderful family and 5 adorable grandchildren
    Five adorable ones - out of how many? :wink:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    Start leaving bequest forms for the Donkey Sanctuary around the house.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    My children have full power of attorney over both of us and our funeral plans are in our wills

    Practical measures but we do intend to try to stay around a wee while longer but we have been very blessed with a wonderful family and 5 adorable grandchildren
    Five adorable ones - out of how many? :wink:
    Unusually maybe, but all 5 ranging from 20 years to 9 months
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?
    When the time arrives if you are wise you will have blown all your hard earned on birds, booze and fast cars, and just squandered the rest, George Best style. Get the kids to stick you on an economy flight back to blighty and let the appropriate local authority of their choice pick up the tab. No need for Dignitas.

    There was a story in the Hereford Times a while back of a man with dementia deposited outside a care home in Hereford. Herefordshire Council footed the bill whilst searching for the man's identity. After a significant number of months they traced his origins back some Midwest state. Due to exorbitant US care costs the family did just as I advised in paragraph one. In his case Herefordshire Council paid for a return ticket.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    edited June 2023

    Thanks all, we plan to go for 4 days to Lisbon, what should we do in that time?

    Gulbenkian
    Custard tarts
    Cascais
    Sintra
    Jerónimos Monastery. Helpfully, I think that's also where the original branch of Pastéis de Belém is, for the custard tarts.

    If you only want to do one day trip, make it Sintra. You can do Cascais in an evening - it's an hour, but the trains are frequent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Handy backdrop for the PM to an election in autumn 2024....
    As people wonder what all that was for...

    Putting up interest rates just doesn't work to control a price spike in commodities. All it does is cause pain and near-recession.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
    They're dad farms about 40 acres, so a reasonable description I would think, and hence the need for a second job in engineering. I have known them since Fox Jr was in Beavers together.

    HYUFD was rather implying that being Trans is a middle class affectation. I don't think it is.
    Only 38% of working class C2DE voters think adults should be able to change their legal gender, compared to 42% of middle class ABC1s who think they should be able to.

    18% of ABC1s think you should not need a doctor's approval to change gender while only 15% of C2DEs think that
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    In my opinion, a long way to go before CPI is under control in the UK at least.

    With regard to interest rates, a return to sensible pricing of money ie having real interest rates ie where the rate exceeds inflation would be welcome.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    @trussliz
    has backed the Daily Telegraph’s campaign for Rishi Sunak to scrap inheritance tax which she believes penalises those who “work hard to earn money”
    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1664360407295832065?s=20

    Damned nonsense. IHT abolition penalises the very people who work hard to earn money. Not Tory-votingf pensioners sitting on their thumbs as their houses go up in price, pampered by thge current IHT allowances.
    You do realise the AVERAGE detached home in Scotland is worth £349,000 now? So over the £325k IHT threshold too.

    So plenty of SNP and Scottish Labour and LD voting pensioners and their heirs hit by it too now
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-index-for-august-2022/uk-house-price-index-scotland-august-2022
    Inheritance isn't very meritocratic though, now is it? Surely as an aspirational Tory you want everyone to go to a grammar school, work hard and make their own way in life. No legs up from the bank of mum and dad.

    P S. I've had mine and spent it.
    Meritocracy and the free market is ultimately a Liberal concept, inherited wealth and tradition is largely a Tory key principle. The 2 just combined to form today's Conservative Party to keep out Labour socialism
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    Yep, they've reloaded the gun. No need to use the bullets now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    Schofield leading the news on nearly all the news channels. Bloody hell.
  • FffsFffs Posts: 76

    Thanks all, we plan to go for 4 days to Lisbon, what should we do in that time?

    Gulbenkian
    Custard tarts
    Cascais
    Sintra
    Good list. Also:
    - Jeronimos
    - Azulejo museum, if you are into your decorative arts
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    rcs1000 said:

    My children have started leaving Dignitas brochures around the house. Should I be worried?

    Southern California, are you not just gonna freeze your head until they invent a cure for death?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
    They're dad farms about 40 acres, so a reasonable description I would think, and hence the need for a second job in engineering. I have known them since Fox Jr was in Beavers together.

    HYUFD was rather implying that being Trans is a middle class affectation. I don't think it is.
    Only 38% of working class C2DE voters think adults should be able to change their legal gender, compared to 42% of middle class ABC1s who think they should be able to.

    18% of ABC1s think you should not need a doctor's approval to change gender while only 15% of C2DEs think that
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

    Looks to me like class based envy.

    Just because C2DE's can't afford gender reassignment they are spoiling the party for everyone else.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Andy_JS said:

    Schofield leading the news on nearly all the news channels. Bloody hell.

    It is utterly ridiculous and I see the channels are now referencing the Samaritans

    The cult of celebrity is out of control and the media have a lot to answer for in over the top reporting
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited June 2023

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    One of the “interesting” effects of interest rate hikes is that mortgages are now only paid by a subset of the population - maybe a third.

    A third - typically retired - own outright, and a third rent.

    So interest rates bash the the struggling middle (crassly expressed) most of all. This never used to be so starkly the case.

    Even at 4%, interest rates are probably too toppy for homeowners, even if they are “about right” from a corporate borrowing perspective.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    All these whopping tax cuts and social care cost increases to ensure you keep your family home, who pays? Another 5% on VAT? A flat rate of income tax at 30p?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    Rents are up crazy amounts, by anecdata around 25% in the last 2 years from everyone I know outside of London, more within London, and very tight supply.

    Mortgages of course will be going up too as people move off fixed deals.

    Meanwhile most people's incomes have in no way kept pace with inflation over the last couple of years, while the labour market remains tight. This tells me a lot of people will be either quitting their job to move somewhere else for better pay, or else able to secure a significant pay rise this year - therefore we haven't seen the second order effects of inflation yet.

    RCS's economist friend might be right that the first order causes of inflation we've seen over the last couple of years - supply chain disruption, sanctions, etc, might be almost over. But the second order effects - e.g. people demanding pay increases in a tight labour market - are yet to really kick in.

    IMHO only a really ugly recession is going to knock inflation on the head.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Ruth Davidson calls Rishi 'an earnest Chinchilla on his wheel' on Have I Got News for You
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    All these whopping tax cuts and social care cost increases to ensure you keep your family home, who pays? Another 5% on VAT? A flat rate of income tax at 30p?
    National Insurance, which was originally set up to fund things like health, care costs and welfare by a Liberal, Lloyd George no less
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    One of the “interesting” effects of interest rate hikes is that mortgages are now only paid by a subset of the population - maybe a third.

    A third - typically retired - own outright, and a third rent.

    So interest rates bash the the struggling middle (crassly expressed) most of all. This never used to be so starkly the case.

    Even at 4%, interest rates are probably too toppy for homeowners, even if they are “about right” from a corporate borrowing perspective.
    The real problem is renters who have not acquired a home and who by retirement will still have rent to pay, unlike most homeowners whose mortgage will have matured
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited June 2023
    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    Rents are up crazy amounts, by anecdata around 25% in the last 2 years from everyone I know outside of London, more within London, and very tight supply.

    Mortgages of course will be going up too as people move off fixed deals.

    Meanwhile most people's incomes have in no way kept pace with inflation over the last couple of years, while the labour market remains tight. This tells me a lot of people will be either quitting their job to move somewhere else for better pay, or else able to secure a significant pay rise this year - therefore we haven't seen the second order effects of inflation yet.

    RCS's economist friend might be right that the first order causes of inflation we've seen over the last couple of years - supply chain disruption, sanctions, etc, might be almost over. But the second order effects - e.g. people demanding pay increases in a tight labour market - are yet to really kick in.

    IMHO only a really ugly recession is going to knock inflation on the head.
    You may well be right and the return of negative equity

    It happened in the late 1980s to 1994 as explained in this Guardian article

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/18/housingmarket.houseprices?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Andy_JS said:

    Schofield leading the news on nearly all the news channels. Bloody hell.

    Mark Dolan (of Balls of Steel fame) discussing Trans overload on GB News right now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    One of the “interesting” effects of interest rate hikes is that mortgages are now only paid by a subset of the population - maybe a third.

    A third - typically retired - own outright, and a third rent.

    So interest rates bash the the struggling middle (crassly expressed) most of all. This never used to be so starkly the case.

    Even at 4%, interest rates are probably too toppy for homeowners, even if they are “about right” from a corporate borrowing perspective.
    The real problem is renters who have not acquired a home and who by retirement will still have rent to pay, unlike most homeowners whose mortgage will have matured
    The way to help renters is reform planning in order to build more houses.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    What is he hiding?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    I said this and you told me I was letting the hubris get to my head???
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023

    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    Whilst Johnson has claimed to have handed all his evidence directly to Hallet. Johnson is doing Sunak up like a kipper. What a good boy Boris is!

    Except of course for the minor detail of Johnson's phone with all the crucial information held therein which he still has.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752
    Andy_JS said:

    Schofield leading the news on nearly all the news channels. Bloody hell.

    It's enough to make you root for the humanity-destroying AIs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
    So they too would have been helped by Boris' proposed £86k cap on social care costs payments from estates
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    You’re too old for him anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
    So they too would have been helped by Boris' proposed £86k cap on social care costs payments from estates
    Another empty Johnson promise. 40 new hospitals...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    You’re too old for him anyway.
    No, that's his brother :naughty:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    ...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    15 Events that Defined the War in Ukraine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB-fUwNFkNo
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    One of the “interesting” effects of interest rate hikes is that mortgages are now only paid by a subset of the population - maybe a third.

    A third - typically retired - own outright, and a third rent.

    So interest rates bash the the struggling middle (crassly expressed) most of all. This never used to be so starkly the case.

    Even at 4%, interest rates are probably too toppy for homeowners, even if they are “about right” from a corporate borrowing perspective.
    The real problem is renters who have not acquired a home and who by retirement will still have rent to pay, unlike most homeowners whose mortgage will have matured
    The way to help renters is reform planning in order to build more houses.
    Yes - but it is something promised but not achieved and I expect it to continue that way whoever is in government
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
    So they too would have been helped by Boris' proposed £86k cap on social care costs payments from estates
    Depends on Welsh labour
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
    This is probably the worst of all possible worlds for a government facing a GE next year: headline inflation falling to zero while rising housing costs mean most people feel much worse off. Telling the electorate 'we have beaten inflation - vote Tory' isn't going to cut it.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Fffs said:

    Thanks all, we plan to go for 4 days to Lisbon, what should we do in that time?

    Gulbenkian
    Custard tarts
    Cascais
    Sintra
    Good list. Also:
    - Jeronimos
    - Azulejo museum, if you are into your decorative arts
    And also:
    - No 12 circular tram. Or any of the little old trams really, they're all great.
    - Museu de marinha
    - Jardim botanico
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    The media have totally lost the plot with their Schofield obsession.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited June 2023

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    It is also keeping the sleeze in Labour out of the headlines with not only Geraint Davies suspended, but allegations made again today that the party are covering up a shadow minister unacceptable behaviour

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    As if we need telling that!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
    So they too would have been helped by Boris' proposed £86k cap on social care costs payments from estates
    Depends on Welsh labour
    I don't believe the Welsh Government are proposing this threshold increase, although, and I may be wrong it is currently higher than currently is the case in England. Speaking from experience there were quite substantial care benefits available in Wales which weren't in England.

    The problem I have with all of Johnson and Truss's freebies, freebies that HY is on board with, is how do we pay for them?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
    They're dad farms about 40 acres, so a reasonable description I would think, and hence the need for a second job in engineering. I have known them since Fox Jr was in Beavers together.

    HYUFD was rather implying that being Trans is a middle class affectation. I don't think it is.
    Only 38% of working class C2DE voters think adults should be able to change their legal gender, compared to 42% of middle class ABC1s who think they should be able to.

    18% of ABC1s think you should not need a doctor's approval to change gender while only 15% of C2DEs think that
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

    Pretty much MOE then between classes!

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
    They're dad farms about 40 acres, so a reasonable description I would think, and hence the need for a second job in engineering. I have known them since Fox Jr was in Beavers together.

    HYUFD was rather implying that being Trans is a middle class affectation. I don't think it is.
    Only 38% of working class C2DE voters think adults should be able to change their legal gender, compared to 42% of middle class ABC1s who think they should be able to.

    18% of ABC1s think you should not need a doctor's approval to change gender while only 15% of C2DEs think that
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

    So, pretty much the same across the classes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    And how many of that 25% have homes to sell? A decreasing percentage now, thanks to Conservative [sic] policies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    "you leftwingers"

    That's you told.

    Ofg course, a decreasing percentage have full equity in their houses. It's no good havingf a house worth over 325K when one dies, if one has a mortage for half of it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    Another train crash in India:

    India train crash: At least 50 dead after Odisha incident
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-65793257

    Railway accidents in India seem to be the equivalent of mass shootings in the US.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    Boris of course correctly wanted to cap residential care costs at £86k max payment per estate, for the 25% who will need social care for dementia
    My son in law and his sister paid in excess of £200,000 for dementia care costs for his mother and father both of whom have now passed away. The money came from their home which was sold to pay the cost
    So they too would have been helped by Boris' proposed £86k cap on social care costs payments from estates
    Depends on Welsh labour
    I don't believe the Welsh Government are proposing this threshold increase, although, and I may be wrong it is currently higher than currently is the case in England. Speaking from experience there were quite substantial care benefits available in Wales which weren't in England.

    The problem I have with all of Johnson and Truss's freebies, freebies that HY is on board with, is how do we pay for them?
    My sister had 2 year care costs paid by the Welsh NHS under their continuing health care scheme when she was diagnosed terminally ill with cancer and died 2 years later.

    However that scheme is no longer available and did not apply to dementia

    I do not agree with @HYUFD quest for IHT increases beyond those already available, and certainly it is not the place of the taxpayer to subsidise house purchase
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    That will no doubt lead to the Tories winning by a landslide in the next GE then.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Andy_JS said:

    The media have totally lost the plot with their Schofield obsession.

    O, To be in England now that Schofield’s queer.
    And whoever wakes in England sees This Morning’s gay affair
    Dominate the news and the radio waves
    While the Johnson lies and the Truss doth rave
    And the PM covers up a Covid row
    In England - now!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited June 2023

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    It is also keeping the sleeze in Labour out of the headlines with not only Geraint Davies suspended, but allegations made again today that the party are covering up a shadow minister unacceptable behaviour

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
    No. R4 PM led on Charlotte Nichols and Stella Creasey explaining that when they arrived in Parliament in 2019 and 2010 respectively they were warned that 30 MPs were a danger to young female MPs. They were both highly critical of the Labour Party hierarchy who ignored common knowledge regarding Davies. It was couched as an exclusively Labour Party problem by Evan Davies. It clearly isn't and I was expecting the usual BBC balance caveats, perhaps referencing Rob Roberts or Pincher, but he didn't. I think BBC balance only applies to negative stories involving Boris Johnson.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    I think his point was more subtle.

    If interest rates chase headline inflation down, it will be adding a lot of inflationary fuel to the fire. Essentially people will have more disposable income from lower gas and electricity (and food) bills, and if you combine that with falling interest rates, then you will create a big surge in demand.

    Better to cut rates now, to relieve pressure on households, and then be in a position to tighten next year.

    (More generally, I agree that ultra loose monetary policy is bad for everyone in the medium term. However, it's very rare that real interest rates - i.e. the gap between what is paid on debt and inflation - exceeds 3 or 4%.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    "you leftwingers"

    That's you told.

    Ofg course, a decreasing percentage have full equity in their houses. It's no good havingf a house worth over 325K when one dies, if one has a mortage for half of it.
    I disagree with @HYUFD and while I am a one nation conservative I am not a left winger
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    I think his point was more subtle.

    If interest rates chase headline inflation down, it will be adding a lot of inflationary fuel to the fire. Essentially people will have more disposable income from lower gas and electricity (and food) bills, and if you combine that with falling interest rates, then you will create a big surge in demand.

    Better to cut rates now, to relieve pressure on households, and then be in a position to tighten next year.

    (More generally, I agree that ultra loose monetary policy is bad for everyone in the medium term. However, it's very rare that real interest rates - i.e. the gap between what is paid on debt and inflation - exceeds 3 or 4%.)
    Yes, that does make more sense.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
    That's right. While eliminating shortage driven inflation is welcome and inevitable in the end, it will lock in high prices. Rents are already sky high, fuel seems to have settled at about twice what it was before and a bit smaller but still very large increase is likely for food as well. Which is the bulk of people's cost of living. People will continue to feel poorer.

    But take @rcs1000 point about cutting interest rates sooner rather than later.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    It seems the increases, which by the way are low anyway, are having the effect of house price reductions which many want but at the same time is fracturing the buy to let market putting pressure on rents, just when that is a great worry for many
    One of the “interesting” effects of interest rate hikes is that mortgages are now only paid by a subset of the population - maybe a third.

    A third - typically retired - own outright, and a third rent.

    So interest rates bash the the struggling middle (crassly expressed) most of all. This never used to be so starkly the case.

    Even at 4%, interest rates are probably too toppy for homeowners, even if they are “about right” from a corporate borrowing perspective.
    The real problem is renters who have not acquired a home and who by retirement will still have rent to pay, unlike most homeowners whose mortgage will have matured
    The way to help renters is reform planning in order to build more houses.
    Build houses until they are giving them away. Build. Build. Build.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    I think his point was more subtle.

    If interest rates chase headline inflation down, it will be adding a lot of inflationary fuel to the fire. Essentially people will have more disposable income from lower gas and electricity (and food) bills, and if you combine that with falling interest rates, then you will create a big surge in demand.

    Better to cut rates now, to relieve pressure on households, and then be in a position to tighten next year.

    (More generally, I agree that ultra loose monetary policy is bad for everyone in the medium term. However, it's very rare that real interest rates - i.e. the gap between what is paid on debt and inflation - exceeds 3 or 4%.)
    But that's my point. Just because inflation is back under control is bluntly no reason to cut interest rates.

    In particular, if they even think about cutting them back down to low levels they'll bugger pensions again.

    It seems to me a ridiculous assumption that interest rates *should* come down merely because official inflation does. Rather, they should not rise further from what remain pretty low levels.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
    That's right. While eliminating shortage driven inflation is welcome and inevitable in the end, it will lock in high prices. Rents are already sky high, fuel seems to have settled at about twice what it was before and a bit smaller but still very large increase is likely for food as well. Which is the bulk of people's cost of living. People will continue to feel poorer.

    But take @rcs1000 point about cutting interest rates sooner rather than later.
    How is fuel twice what it was before? It’s not been 70p a litre for decades.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    edited June 2023
    I think the poll was posted earlier, but I do like the way Omnisis tweeted it:

    1/ With the relentless intensity of a Skynet Terminator, Labour continues to lead our voter intention poll, increasing its lead from 19 to 21 points this week:

    🔴 Lab 46% (-1)
    🔵 Con 25% (-3)
    🟠 LD 10% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 3% (NC)
    ⚪ Ref 6% (NC)
    🟢 Green 7% (+2)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648855567179777?t=8o7R2nX8M848nV2xKFsFfA&s=19

    2/ Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s popularity hasn’t been terminated just yet, but his negative net approval rate has plunged six points to -15…

    👍 Approve: 28% (-3)
    👎 Disapprove: 43% (+3)
    🤷 Neither: 28% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648858419228675?t=AAS1fM--Ubw3GNanDC-Emw&s=19

    (The rest of the thread is good too)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    It is also keeping the sleeze in Labour out of the headlines with not only Geraint Davies suspended, but allegations made again today that the party are covering up a shadow minister unacceptable behaviour

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
    No. R4 PM led on Charlotte Nichols and Stella Creasey explaining that when they arrived in Parliament in 2019 and 2010 respectively they were warned that 30 MPs were a danger to young female MPs. They were both highly critical of the Labour Party hierarchy who ignored common knowledge regarding Davies. It was couched as an exclusively Labour Party problem by Evan Davies. It clearly isn't and I was expecting the usual BBC balance caveats, perhaps referencing Rob Roberts or Pincher, but he didn't. I think BBC balance only applies to negative stories involving Boris Johnson.
    The point though is Schofield is dominating everything in the media and now they are giving out the Samaritans phone number

    The reporting has been disgraceful and it demotes other stories including covid and Labour’s sleeze

    It is across all parties but Starmer and labour are covering up allegations about a shadow minister which is not acceptable in the present climate
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    That rather assumes that low interest rates are the way to go. Is that the view of everyone?

    Personally, speaking as somebody who is not an economist, I would have said that after 14 years of ridiculous lows they need to stay up.
    I think his point was more subtle.

    If interest rates chase headline inflation down, it will be adding a lot of inflationary fuel to the fire. Essentially people will have more disposable income from lower gas and electricity (and food) bills, and if you combine that with falling interest rates, then you will create a big surge in demand.

    Better to cut rates now, to relieve pressure on households, and then be in a position to tighten next year.

    (More generally, I agree that ultra loose monetary policy is bad for everyone in the medium term. However, it's very rare that real interest rates - i.e. the gap between what is paid on debt and inflation - exceeds 3 or 4%.)
    Not sure how this works. People will have a bit more disposable income compared with six months earlier but a LOT LESS than they had two years earlier.
  • About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    I really liked About Time, too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    "you leftwingers"

    That's you told.

    Ofg course, a decreasing percentage have full equity in their houses. It's no good havingf a house worth over 325K when one dies, if one has a mortage for half of it.
    I disagree with @HYUFD and while I am a one nation conservative I am not a left winger
    He'll be back on in a minute to explain why you're not a true Tory because you didn't fight Cromwell in defence of King Charles II, or something similar.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ydoethur said:

    Another train crash in India:

    India train crash: At least 50 dead after Odisha incident
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-65793257

    Railway accidents in India seem to be the equivalent of mass shootings in the US.

    Not to dismiss the gravity of your post, Sunak has overseen several train wrecks in just the last 48 hours.
  • pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes. And it isn't even treated as a disease, even though it clearly is one.

    The NHS won't provide any care for a dementia sufferer, but if you get cancer, it is a different matter.

    I know it will be expensive, but there needs to be an equitable solution instead of a lottery.
    Do I recall a proposal that there should be some kind of insurance offered for people that would pay out for care if you got dementia? Of course that would only be available for those who could afford the premiums.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Foxy said:

    I think the poll was posted earlier, but I do like the way Omnisis tweeted it:

    1/ With the relentless intensity of a Skynet Terminator, Labour continues to lead our voter intention poll, increasing its lead from 19 to 21 points this week:

    🔴 Lab 46% (-1)
    🔵 Con 25% (-3)
    🟠 LD 10% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 3% (NC)
    ⚪ Ref 6% (NC)
    🟢 Green 7% (+2)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648855567179777?t=8o7R2nX8M848nV2xKFsFfA&s=19

    2/ Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s popularity hasn’t been terminated just yet, but his negative net approval rate has plunged six points to -15…

    👍 Approve: 28% (-3)
    👎 Disapprove: 43% (+3)
    🤷 Neither: 28% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648858419228675?t=AAS1fM--Ubw3GNanDC-Emw&s=19

    (The rest of the thread is good too)

    This looks pretty painful to Sunak in that poll:

    10a/ In January, the Prime Minister unveiled five key priorities. We asked how people think the Government was performing on each priority:

    📈 Halving inflation – 62% badly | 13% well | 20% neither | 5% DK
    📉 Reducing Debt – 58% badly | 12% well | 22% neither | 7% DK

    10b/ And your views on the other three Government priorities...

    💷 Growing the Economy – 55% badly | 16% well | 23% neither | 5% DK
    ⚕️ Cut NHS waiting lists – 66% badly | 12% well | 17% neither | 5% DK
    🛶 Stopping small boats – 57% badly | 12% well | 22% neither | 9% DK

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648869588631553?t=s3HWtkf5mgSlczGgZUVREw&s=19

    It really is quite hard to figure out where that swingback is going to come from as Sunaks honeymoon draws to an ignoble close.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    It is also keeping the sleeze in Labour out of the headlines with not only Geraint Davies suspended, but allegations made again today that the party are covering up a shadow minister unacceptable behaviour

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
    No. R4 PM led on Charlotte Nichols and Stella Creasey explaining that when they arrived in Parliament in 2019 and 2010 respectively they were warned that 30 MPs were a danger to young female MPs. They were both highly critical of the Labour Party hierarchy who ignored common knowledge regarding Davies. It was couched as an exclusively Labour Party problem by Evan Davies. It clearly isn't and I was expecting the usual BBC balance caveats, perhaps referencing Rob Roberts or Pincher, but he didn't. I think BBC balance only applies to negative stories involving Boris Johnson.
    The point though is Schofield is dominating everything in the media and now they are giving out the Samaritans phone number

    The reporting has been disgraceful and it demotes other stories including covid and Labour’s sleeze

    It is across all parties but Starmer and labour are covering up allegations about a shadow minister which is not acceptable in the present climate
    If Starmer is covering up allegations, it is unacceptable.
    But do you have any evidence for that, or is it just another one of your Starmer witch-hunts?

    I am more concerned frankly that Labour HQ have de-selected the North East Mayor for standing again, apparently for consorting with Ken Loach.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Foxy said:

    I think the poll was posted earlier, but I do like the way Omnisis tweeted it:

    1/ With the relentless intensity of a Skynet Terminator, Labour continues to lead our voter intention poll, increasing its lead from 19 to 21 points this week:

    🔴 Lab 46% (-1)
    🔵 Con 25% (-3)
    🟠 LD 10% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 3% (NC)
    ⚪ Ref 6% (NC)
    🟢 Green 7% (+2)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648855567179777?t=8o7R2nX8M848nV2xKFsFfA&s=19

    Broken, sleazy Labour AND Tories on the slide!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    .

    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    I said this and you told me I was letting the hubris get to my head???
    It’s traditional politeness to let PMs prove they’re rubbish before saying so.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
    That's right. While eliminating shortage driven inflation is welcome and inevitable in the end, it will lock in high prices. Rents are already sky high, fuel seems to have settled at about twice what it was before and a bit smaller but still very large increase is likely for food as well. Which is the bulk of people's cost of living. People will continue to feel poorer.

    But take @rcs1000 point about cutting interest rates sooner rather than later.
    How is fuel twice what it was before? It’s not been 70p a litre for decades.
    Presumably meant domestic rather than motor fuel.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    ydoethur said:

    Another train crash in India:

    India train crash: At least 50 dead after Odisha incident
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-65793257

    Railway accidents in India seem to be the equivalent of mass shootings in the US.

    When was the last serious one? Seems like it's been a while.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    ...



    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    Whilst Johnson has claimed to have handed all his evidence directly to Hallet. Johnson is doing Sunak up like a kipper. What a good boy Boris is!

    Except of course for the minor detail of Johnson's phone with all the crucial information held therein which he still has.
    What's significant about this new development is that it indicates that the 'irrelevant information' argument was a complete lie. It is now obvious, if anyone was naive enough to believe that argument, that the motivation was the concealment of information from the public, whether or not that information is relevant to the enquiry or not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
    What utter rubbish. You do realise the AVERAGE house is now worth just £372K and OVER the inheritance tax threshold of £325k.

    It is no wonder therefore most voters want the threshold for it raised to £1 million as not all of them are even married couples who benefit from Osborne's allowance. Were it not for Osborne's allowance even more would have been hit by it. No wonder you leftwingers don't have a clue how the average voter feels on this issue?
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    "you leftwingers"

    That's you told.

    Ofg course, a decreasing percentage have full equity in their houses. It's no good havingf a house worth over 325K when one dies, if one has a mortage for half of it.
    I disagree with @HYUFD and while I am a one nation conservative I am not a left winger
    He'll be back on in a minute to explain why you're not a true Tory because you didn't fight Cromwell in defence of King Charles II, or something similar.
    Indeed, BigG would definitely have been a Roundhead and then a Whig!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had a call with a moderately well known economist today, who is just back in the US after spending a lot of time at the BoE. He's of the view that inflation is going to fall very quickly from here, because almost all of the external elements (i.e. gas / electricity / grains / etc) are in freefall at the wholesale level. It essentially guarantees - in his view - that inflation will be close to zero by the middle of next year as peoples' utility bills register big year-over-year declines.

    His view is that the BoE should be cutting now, rather than doing so next year, when they will be chasing a falling inflation rate.

    He was very persuasive.

    Let's assume that he is correct. Whilst inflation dropping towards zero is very welcome after this period of madness, that doesn't mean that prices fall. Just that prices stop rising.

    The "how can we afford this" narrative that has possessed so many voters is just embossed into the marble on the Tories' tombstone...
    That's right. While eliminating shortage driven inflation is welcome and inevitable in the end, it will lock in high prices. Rents are already sky high, fuel seems to have settled at about twice what it was before and a bit smaller but still very large increase is likely for food as well. Which is the bulk of people's cost of living. People will continue to feel poorer.

    But take @rcs1000 point about cutting interest rates sooner rather than later.
    How is fuel twice what it was before? It’s not been 70p a litre for decades.
    I was thinking more of domestic energy. You pay 70p a litre for vehicle fuel?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    I don't give a fuck about Philip Schofield.

    He's an excellent smokescreen for all the Heather Hallet nonsense. If the news outlets all lead on Schofield no one will notice what arses Johnson, Case and Sunak have been.
    It is also keeping the sleeze in Labour out of the headlines with not only Geraint Davies suspended, but allegations made again today that the party are covering up a shadow minister unacceptable behaviour

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
    No. R4 PM led on Charlotte Nichols and Stella Creasey explaining that when they arrived in Parliament in 2019 and 2010 respectively they were warned that 30 MPs were a danger to young female MPs. They were both highly critical of the Labour Party hierarchy who ignored common knowledge regarding Davies. It was couched as an exclusively Labour Party problem by Evan Davies. It clearly isn't and I was expecting the usual BBC balance caveats, perhaps referencing Rob Roberts or Pincher, but he didn't. I think BBC balance only applies to negative stories involving Boris Johnson.
    The point though is Schofield is dominating everything in the media and now they are giving out the Samaritans phone number

    The reporting has been disgraceful and it demotes other stories including covid and Labour’s sleeze

    It is across all parties but Starmer and labour are covering up allegations about a shadow minister which is not acceptable in the present climate
    If Starmer is covering up allegations, it is unacceptable.
    But do you have any evidence for that, or is it just another one of your Starmer witch-hunts?

    I am more concerned frankly that Labour HQ have de-selected the North East Mayor for standing again, apparently for consorting with Ken Loach.
    I have already posted the link and it has been reported for a while now

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-says-opposition-frontbencher-still-in-post-despite-being-reported-to-police-for-alleged-sexual-assault-12895013
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    ...



    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    Whilst Johnson has claimed to have handed all his evidence directly to Hallet. Johnson is doing Sunak up like a kipper. What a good boy Boris is!

    Except of course for the minor detail of Johnson's phone with all the crucial information held therein which he still has.
    What's significant about this new development is that it indicates that the 'irrelevant information' argument was a complete lie. It is now obvious, if anyone was naive enough to believe that argument, that the motivation was the concealment of information from the public, whether or not that information is relevant to the enquiry or not.
    One of the bizarre things about this affair is Sunak’s unwillingness to provide an honest view on why the government is attempting to suppress information.

    It only leaves one conclusion.

    Cover up.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I think the poll was posted earlier, but I do like the way Omnisis tweeted it:

    1/ With the relentless intensity of a Skynet Terminator, Labour continues to lead our voter intention poll, increasing its lead from 19 to 21 points this week:

    🔴 Lab 46% (-1)
    🔵 Con 25% (-3)
    🟠 LD 10% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 3% (NC)
    ⚪ Ref 6% (NC)
    🟢 Green 7% (+2)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648855567179777?t=8o7R2nX8M848nV2xKFsFfA&s=19

    2/ Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s popularity hasn’t been terminated just yet, but his negative net approval rate has plunged six points to -15…

    👍 Approve: 28% (-3)
    👎 Disapprove: 43% (+3)
    🤷 Neither: 28% (-1)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648858419228675?t=AAS1fM--Ubw3GNanDC-Emw&s=19

    (The rest of the thread is good too)

    This looks pretty painful to Sunak in that poll:

    10a/ In January, the Prime Minister unveiled five key priorities. We asked how people think the Government was performing on each priority:

    📈 Halving inflation – 62% badly | 13% well | 20% neither | 5% DK
    📉 Reducing Debt – 58% badly | 12% well | 22% neither | 7% DK

    10b/ And your views on the other three Government priorities...

    💷 Growing the Economy – 55% badly | 16% well | 23% neither | 5% DK
    ⚕️ Cut NHS waiting lists – 66% badly | 12% well | 17% neither | 5% DK
    🛶 Stopping small boats – 57% badly | 12% well | 22% neither | 9% DK

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1664648869588631553?t=s3HWtkf5mgSlczGgZUVREw&s=19

    It really is quite hard to figure out where that swingback is going to come from as Sunaks honeymoon draws to an ignoble close.
    The little shit doesn't even seem to have much support among tories in here. Casino is the only real Sunak fan boi while BigG and HYUFD half-heartedly go along with it out of some glum sense of duty.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    ...



    Oh FFS, Rishi is utterly rubbish.

    The Government has launched a fresh legal bid to prevent the Covid public inquiry from making public key documents on its handling of the pandemic, i can reveal.

    A preliminary hearing next Tuesday is expected to reveal that the Cabinet Office has applied for a so-called Section 19 order to tightly restrict the publication of even redacted messages, diary entries and other papers.

    If the Inquiry agrees to the order, such documents cannot be shared with “core participants”, including the Covid Bereaved Families For Justice group.

    The affected documents would be used to ‘inform’ the inquiry’s recommendations, but would not be cited in any open hearings and would not be made public for years.

    The new bid for secrecy may spark fresh accusations of an attempted cover-up, just days after the Government defied a request from Lady Hallett to hand over uncensored versions of all Whitehall documents linked to the Covid period and launched a judicial review instead.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/government-in-new-legal-bid-to-stop-bereaved-families-ever-reading-redacted-covid-whatsapps-2384005

    Whilst Johnson has claimed to have handed all his evidence directly to Hallet. Johnson is doing Sunak up like a kipper. What a good boy Boris is!

    Except of course for the minor detail of Johnson's phone with all the crucial information held therein which he still has.
    What's significant about this new development is that it indicates that the 'irrelevant information' argument was a complete lie. It is now obvious, if anyone was naive enough to believe that argument, that the motivation was the concealment of information from the public, whether or not that information is relevant to the enquiry or not.
    One of the bizarre things about this affair is Sunak’s unwillingness to provide an honest view on why the government is attempting to suppress information.

    It only leaves one conclusion.

    Cover up.
    But the Government is confident in its position, and has released tens of thousands of documents. *fake grin*
This discussion has been closed.