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Why This Fight? Why Now? – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    Sandpit said:

    10 overs in, and Ireland are 28/2, effectively 28/3 after McCollum retired hurt with a twisted ankle.

    Still 20 overs to bowl this evening, the two-day Test is still on.

    It’s difficult to have a meaningful conversation when someone is standing by the window looking out shouting at the ducks.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
    As mentioned several times in my previous posts, for me it is absolutely not about the age gap or the sexuality of the parties involved.

    For the record, I have precisely zero problem with consenting adults of any gender choosing to enter into a relationship with each other.

    I do have questions over the appropriateness of someone in their late 40s meeting a 15 year old, then having a "friendship" that blossoms into a sexual relationship when they come of age, but I would have the same questions about a man in his 40s and a schoolgirl. It's not about gender - the power dynamic feels a little off here. However, I also accept it's none of my business, and stranger relationships blossom, where adults consent.

    What I have a problem with is where the older person uses their influence to get the younger person a job at their company, then starts a sexual relationship with them while being their boss, and uses their influence to promote their partner's career, then lies about the relationship when asked by their HR department.

    Normally, this sort of thing would not be front page news, except for the fact that the boss in question is a celeb with a "squeaky clean" reputation they have monetised (see the ads I posted below).

    One can be outraged by this story without being either homophobic or in denial that cross-generational relationships do sometimes happen between consenting adults.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    I highly doubt that is true now given the average UK house price is £372,894 according to Rightmove and £696k in London

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    On the avoidance: that's why I would have a lifetime gifts (including inheritance) allowance, and tax the recipient, not the estate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2023

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
    There is another issue here. His coming out was to silence this scandal in 2020, and he took steps to shut down the media reporting on this. The young man then appears to have been chucked under the bus. Given how difficult can still be for regular people, that appears incredibly cynical from Schofield.

    Now saying he is making a big deal that is it all down to homophobia. Well when he came out the reaction went from rather OTT about his bravery, to rather dismissive, I thought he was gay, I didn't know he was married to a woman. Either way, bloke in telly in 2020 is gay, nobody cared / switched off This Morning because of it.

    Secondly, he points to Leo as whataboutery, well lots of people regularly point out this is very dodgy behaviour...and the young ladies he dates, they aren't working for him.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    I highly doubt that is true now given the average UK house price is £372,894 according to Rightmove and £696k in London

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    Presumably, though, half of all estates are simple husband-to-wife, or wife-to-husband, where there is no inheritance tax to pay. That seriously cuts down the number paying it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.

    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    I highly doubt that is true now given the average UK house price is £372,894 according to Rightmove and £696k in London

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/
    Presumably, though, half of all estates are simple husband-to-wife, or wife-to-husband, where there is no inheritance tax to pay. That seriously cuts down the number paying it.
    Yes, the Osborne exemption effectively raised the threshold to £1 million for married couples' primary residence which made a difference
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,477
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    Not really my subject - I was a CT man - but in my days in the tax biz I recall that Inheritance Tax was widely regarded as the most easily avoidable. It was paid largely by the careless.

    Perhaps times have changed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    FF43 said:

    This commentator makes a good point. The public generally give governments the benefit of the doubt on Covid. While the public recognise governments may have made the wrong calls at times, they also accept they were dealing with challenging and unclear situations. In any case the public doesn't agree on what the right calls should have been.

    Given that, it's intriguing what the government is trying to hide.

    https://twitter.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1664612971794911232

    Possibly nothing, and they just don't want a precedent set, so they are seeking a legal ruling to clarify.

    Or possibly something...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    edited June 2023
    Typical example would be a married couple - one dies. Their spouse 'inherits' tax free. The survivor then goes into a care home and has to pay the fees. What is left of the estate is below the threshold. They could be pretty affluent without having to pay anything.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited June 2023
    "total insouciance now and a desire to give everything (apart from the material he conveniently no longer has for 15 crucial months)"

    Not quite. As far as one old phone is concerned, it's only material on it that he considers "relevant", and which is accessible to him, that Johnson has said he will give to the inquiry.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    If I could bother getting around to it I'd probably leave something to my nieces and nephew. Currently my estate would be some way below the threshold but you never know in the future.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited June 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    So do I. Nothing worse than w*nkers who want to build up an ever larger pile of capital so as to pass it on. It's as if they haven't got the sense to spend their own money on stuff they like.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    edited June 2023
    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    Carlotta posted a link yesterday which, when followed, led to an Ipsos poll. I think as a rough rule of thumb it's age: Gen Z (1997+)>Millennials (1981-1996)>Gen X (1965-1980)>Boomers (1948-1964), with boomers the most agin.

    Although I have to ask: you, as a Conservative member, may have access to datasets that the rest of us do not. Does the Party track these things by class?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    If I could bother getting around to it I'd probably leave something to my nieces and nephew. Currently my estate would be some way below the threshold but you never know in the future.
    I’ve got four god daughters two of whom are also my nieces who will do OK - but no more than that - out of my will.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited June 2023
    This is what a cricket side being buggered looks like.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    Carlotta posted a link yesterday which, when followed, led to an Ipsos poll. I think as a rough rule of thumb it's age: Gen Z (1997+)>Millennials (1981-1996)>Gen X (1965-1980)>Boomers (1948-1964), with boomers the most agin.

    Although I have to ask: you, as a Conservative member, may have access to datasets that the rest of us do not. Does the Party track these things by class?
    No, the Tory party isn't interested in class at all. (Have you ever met any of them?)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch. Sympathies.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424

    Secondly, he points to Leo as whataboutery...

    For a second I thought you meant Varadkar

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    According to many on the left, it's less selfish to spend all your money on yourself than to pass it on to other people.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    ydoethur said:

    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.

    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.

    For the rather more wealthy, who don't have most of their wealth tied up in the family home: Agricultural Relief. Business Relief. Trusts (but these aren't as effective as they used to be, thanks to Osborne). Most AIM-listed shares. Passing a pension fund completely tax-free to beneficiaries (that one is Osborne's fault!). Forestry.

    There are reasons for most of these exemptions/allowances, but the overall picture is a mess.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    Westie said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    Carlotta posted a link yesterday which, when followed, led to an Ipsos poll. I think as a rough rule of thumb it's age: Gen Z (1997+)>Millennials (1981-1996)>Gen X (1965-1980)>Boomers (1948-1964), with boomers the most agin.

    Although I have to ask: you, as a Conservative member, may have access to datasets that the rest of us do not. Does the Party track these things by class?
    No, the Tory party isn't interested in class at all. (Have you ever met any of them?)
    I *meant* in an proper analytical way.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    The fall in house prices was some welcome news the other day. With wages going up by 6% that should mean a nice rebalancing of the earnings to prices ratio.

    5 years of earnings growth at 5% p/a and a further 5% fall in house prices would see the ratio go back to something like 6:1 which would probably be reasonable. The idea that the housing affordability issue cannot be dealt with is baloney.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    The truth is people simply don't die often enough for inheritance tax to be of much value. What we need is something that can be paid every year like a land value tax.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    The trick is not dying too early
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    carnforth said:

    FF43 said:

    This commentator makes a good point. The public generally give governments the benefit of the doubt on Covid. While the public recognise governments may have made the wrong calls at times, they also accept they were dealing with challenging and unclear situations. In any case the public doesn't agree on what the right calls should have been.

    Given that, it's intriguing what the government is trying to hide.

    https://twitter.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1664612971794911232

    Possibly nothing, and they just don't want a precedent set, so they are seeking a legal ruling to clarify.

    Or possibly something...
    The only precedent they are setting is to refuse providing evidence to a statutory enquiry, probably illegally.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    The trick is not dying too early
    Or, even worse, too late.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch. Sympathies.
    He needs to read the small print; they probably didn’t lose anything but helped themselves to a nice wodge of his savings by way of congratulation for their sterling efforts.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    Not really my subject - I was a CT man - but in my days in the tax biz I recall that Inheritance Tax was widely regarded as the most easily avoidable. It was paid largely by the careless.

    Perhaps times have changed.
    When I was working it was described as the only voluntary tax.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    Not really my subject - I was a CT man - but in my days in the tax biz I recall that Inheritance Tax was widely regarded as the most easily avoidable. It was paid largely by the careless.

    Perhaps times have changed.
    When I was working it was described as the only voluntary tax.
    That was the case, until house price rises caught many more people in the net, who often weren’t expecting it and didn’t plan. That it’s so easy for the genuinely wealthy to avoid, suggests that it’s better off either being scrapped or made difficult to avoid.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    "Forty refugees in standoff with Home Office over cramped London hotel

    Westminster Council leader Adam Hug has written to the Home Secretary demanding to know why the town hall was not informed the ‘vulnerable group’ had been moved to the borough"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/refugees-home-office-london-hotel-suella-braverman-westminster-council-b1085158.html
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    I like reading about them specifically because of reading about those who stood firm. Admiral Canaris, the White Rose movement and many others. Reading about what they did in the face of overwhelming odds is both inspirational and instructive. The same goes for those from the Antebellum South who chose to fight against their own states as a matter of principle. It puts thelie to those who claimed they either did not know or had no choice but to comply and become complicit.
    Canaris was a anti-democratic hard core nationalist who was up for conquering Europe. He was involved in the Rosa Luxemburg murder and the coverup.

    Reinhard Heidrich was a protégée - some suspect Heidrich was an infiltrator into the Nazi party, run by Canaris, initially. They remained good friends, despite becoming rivals in the Nazi secret police establishment, until Heidrich was assassinated.
    Canaris used the Abwehr as a vehicle to get jews out of Germany. He was also opposed to Hitler from the very start and is credited with having used his contacts within the Spanish military to warn Franco about Hitler and being the cause of the Spanish not joining the war on the German side. He also sent warnings to the British about Hitler in the 1930s but was ignored. By the standards of the time he was as close as you were going to get on the German side to a democrat and he was certainly no Nazi.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    ydoethur said:

    This is what a cricket side being buggered looks like.

    I can't get excited about England rolling over the Irish in cricket or San Marino in football. These grotesque mismatches have no place in modern sport. It's as bad as last Saturday's concluding race at Ffos Las where the 1/100 shot beat the 20/1 outsider by 31 lengths - not exactly racing.

    Will tomorrow's Cup Final be a similar mismatch? You can get 3/10 City and 3/1 United to win outright - in 90 minutes, it's 1/2 City, 9/2 United and 7/2 the Draw.

    I think I'll stick to puzzling out the Derby - my idea of the winner is MILITARY ORDER and I've backed WAIPIRO at 25s each way.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch.

    What is their mandate?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch.

    What is their mandate?
    Presumably inheritance tax planning.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Good for you. You can't take it with you at the end of the day...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    Sean Thomas spoiled an excellent and sensitive article by the last few paragraphs where he clearly felt he ought to pay lip service to the politics of his hosts. It feels like it was written by two separate hands. A real shame.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    They were often talking about Pol Pot on children's TV show Blue Peter in the late 80s / early 90s if I remember correctly, because they were doing money raising campaigns for Cambodia on a regular basis.

    For example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G4dHRN2Dug
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch. Sympathies.
    The supposed no-brainer strategy of "VTSAX and relax" would be down 20% in the last 18 months, so...

    Problem with exiting one strategy and entering another one is often the capital gains to pay down on exiting the fund so... meh. 25% loss given market conditions isn't disastrously worse than general market conditions.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
    There is another issue here. His coming out was to silence this scandal in 2020, and he took steps to shut down the media reporting on this. The young man then appears to have been chucked under the bus. Given how difficult can still be for regular people, that appears incredibly cynical from Schofield.

    Now saying he is making a big deal that is it all down to homophobia. Well when he came out the reaction went from rather OTT about his bravery, to rather dismissive, I thought he was gay, I didn't know he was married to a woman. Either way, bloke in telly in 2020 is gay, nobody cared / switched off This Morning because of it.

    Secondly, he points to Leo as whataboutery, well lots of people regularly point out this is very dodgy behaviour...and the young ladies he dates, they aren't working for him.
    Yea, right of course. It isn't about homophobia at all. Well maybe not in your case, cos I am happy to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, even if you do not offer that to Schofield, but if you believe that The Sun, Mail and Express aren't loving the fact that they have outraged their small minded bigoted often homophobic readership then you are a little naïve
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    Sean Thomas spoiled an excellent and sensitive article by the last few paragraphs where he clearly felt he ought to pay lip service to the politics of his hosts. It feels like it was written by two separate hands. A real shame.
    Wow, diplomacy from Sean Thomas. Well I never.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    The trick is not dying too early
    ..or too late if you have already spent it all
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Looks like everyone has gone to the pub. I ought to go to
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    The trick is not dying too early
    Or, even worse, too late.
    Yes, but there’s always a way round that one.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Clearly everyone has tuned into the cricket highlights.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    On topic: great article, @Cyclefree !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited June 2023

    The fall in house prices was some welcome news the other day. With wages going up by 6% that should mean a nice rebalancing of the earnings to prices ratio.

    5 years of earnings growth at 5% p/a and a further 5% fall in house prices would see the ratio go back to something like 6:1 which would probably be reasonable. The idea that the housing affordability issue cannot be dealt with is baloney.

    Is there a wage series anywhere ?

    I can find for house prices, inflation, interest rates but anything for wages ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    They were often talking about Pol Pot on children's TV show Blue Peter in the late 80s / early 90s if I remember correctly…
    I first heard about it reading about John Dawson Dewhirst in (I think) a Sunday Times magazine, some time in my late teens.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dawson_Dewhirst

    I’m not sure it’s a forgotten genocide as much as a frequently ignored one - the US at the time had some interest in that.
    The time around The Killing Fields movie is an obvious exception to that.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961
    edited June 2023

    Clearly everyone has tuned into the cricket highlights.

    When Ireland bowled out England for 85 at Lords in 2019, they shouldn't have had to wait so long for another match. This is what happens if you don't get enough practice at this level.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Pulpstar said:

    The fall in house prices was some welcome news the other day. With wages going up by 6% that should mean a nice rebalancing of the earnings to prices ratio.

    5 years of earnings growth at 5% p/a and a further 5% fall in house prices would see the ratio go back to something like 6:1 which would probably be reasonable. The idea that the housing affordability issue cannot be dealt with is baloney.

    Is there a wage series anywhere ?

    I can find for house prices, inflation, interest rates but anything for wages ?
    Have a look on here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Evening all :)

    While everyone is down the pub or enjoying the mismatch that is the cricket, some thoughts on tomorrow's big sporting event - not Wembley but Epsom, home of that other iconic British sporting event, the Derby.

    This year's renewal looks wide open. AUGUSTE RODIN is the one who could be a superstar in hiding - the trouble is, he flopped badly in the Guineas and were he with any other trainer, he'd be 10s or bigger but he's with Aidan O'Brien and the combination of that trainer's skills, a half mile further to gallop and some fast ground could just turn this equine equivalent of the ugly duckling into a swan. He was 11/4 at the start of the week but is now 9/2 and that's starting to get towards backable.

    The money has come for Frankie Dettori's mount ARREST and there won't be a dry eye on the Downs if he wins the Derby in his final year. ARREST won well on the soft at Chester and he has fast ground form from his juvenile days but at Sandown and how he'll take to the fast ground and the downhill at Epsom I don't know. He was a bit of value at 6s but not at 3s.

    MILITARY ORDER would be my choice for a winner - he looked good at Lingfield, albeit on the Polytrack, and as a full brother to Adayar, the 2021 winner, we can perhaps hope he'll handle the ground and the track well.

    SPREWELL is another Irish challenger with claims but he's never gone on anything as quick as this.

    The first three in the Dante turn up and while the Dante does throw up the odd winner, it can be a bit of a dead end and it's not as deep as you think. THE FOXES won well but WHITE BIRCH was finishing strongly while PASSENGER was arguably an unlucky third. They all have claims but I'm just not convinced the race is as strong as people think.

    DUBAI MILE was fifth in the Guineas and that's often considered the best Derby trial but he was always up there and while I think he could make the running tomorrow, I'd be surprised if he stays there but of course Serpentine managed it in 2020.

    My outsider is WAIPIRO who chased home MILITARY ORDER at Lingfield and I'm on at 25s. He shouldn't be good enough but Ed Walker is a decent trainer and I could see this one finishing well.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:


    @trussliz
    has backed the Daily Telegraph’s campaign for Rishi Sunak to scrap inheritance tax which she believes penalises those who “work hard to earn money”
    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1664360407295832065?s=20

    Damned nonsense. IHT abolition penalises the very people who work hard to earn money. Not Tory-votingf pensioners sitting on their thumbs as their houses go up in price, pampered by thge current IHT allowances.
    You do realise the AVERAGE detached home in Scotland is worth £349,000 now? So over the £325k IHT threshold too.

    So plenty of SNP and Scottish Labour and LD voting pensioners and their heirs hit by it too now
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-index-for-august-2022/uk-house-price-index-scotland-august-2022
    Inheritance isn't very meritocratic though, now is it? Surely as an aspirational Tory you want everyone to go to a grammar school, work hard and make their own way in life. No legs up from the bank of mum and dad.

    P S. I've had mine and spent it.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    While everyone is down the pub or enjoying the mismatch that is the cricket, some thoughts on tomorrow's big sporting event - not Wembley but Epsom, home of that other iconic British sporting event, the Derby.

    This year's renewal looks wide open. AUGUSTE RODIN is the one who could be a superstar in hiding - the trouble is, he flopped badly in the Guineas and were he with any other trainer, he'd be 10s or bigger but he's with Aidan O'Brien and the combination of that trainer's skills, a half mile further to gallop and some fast ground could just turn this equine equivalent of the ugly duckling into a swan. He was 11/4 at the start of the week but is now 9/2 and that's starting to get towards backable.

    The money has come for Frankie Dettori's mount ARREST and there won't be a dry eye on the Downs if he wins the Derby in his final year. ARREST won well on the soft at Chester and he has fast ground form from his juvenile days but at Sandown and how he'll take to the fast ground and the downhill at Epsom I don't know. He was a bit of value at 6s but not at 3s.

    MILITARY ORDER would be my choice for a winner - he looked good at Lingfield, albeit on the Polytrack, and as a full brother to Adayar, the 2021 winner, we can perhaps hope he'll handle the ground and the track well.

    SPREWELL is another Irish challenger with claims but he's never gone on anything as quick as this.

    The first three in the Dante turn up and while the Dante does throw up the odd winner, it can be a bit of a dead end and it's not as deep as you think. THE FOXES won well but WHITE BIRCH was finishing strongly while PASSENGER was arguably an unlucky third. They all have claims but I'm just not convinced the race is as strong as people think.

    DUBAI MILE was fifth in the Guineas and that's often considered the best Derby trial but he was always up there and while I think he could make the running tomorrow, I'd be surprised if he stays there but of course Serpentine managed it in 2020.

    My outsider is WAIPIRO who chased home MILITARY ORDER at Lingfield and I'm on at 25s. He shouldn't be good enough but Ed Walker is a decent trainer and I could see this one finishing well.

    More importantly what odds those Animal Rebellion clowns turning up ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    When I first got together with my now wife I watched that shit on a Friday night. The only film worse we saw together was Ps I Love You.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I plan on avoiding inheritance tax by the simple expedient of spending all my money before I die.

    Since I don’t have any descendants, I just don’t give a shit.

    Mind you, I’ll probably have emulated you by spending it all as well.
    I'm emulating you both not by spending my savings but by having fund managers who have somehow managed to lose more than a quarter in the past two years.
    Ouch.

    What is their mandate?
    It's a pension fund so I assume they lost half of it in "safe, defensive" bonds and lost the other half in shares. They'd have done better buying lottery scratchcards but there was a queue at the newsagents.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    They were often talking about Pol Pot on children's TV show Blue Peter in the late 80s / early 90s if I remember correctly…
    I first heard about it reading about John Dawson Dewhirst in (I think) a Sunday Times magazine, some time in my late teens.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dawson_Dewhirst

    I’m not sure it’s a forgotten genocide as much as a frequently ignored one - the US at the time had some interest in that.
    The time around The Killing Fields movie is an obvious exception to that.

    The Dead Kennedys did a good song about it too.

    It was over 40 years ago, so not surprised if the youngsters don't know about Pol Pot any more than they do about Biafra or Mengistu.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    They were often talking about Pol Pot on children's TV show Blue Peter in the late 80s / early 90s if I remember correctly…
    I first heard about it reading about John Dawson Dewhirst in (I think) a Sunday Times magazine, some time in my late teens.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dawson_Dewhirst

    I’m not sure it’s a forgotten genocide as much as a frequently ignored one - the US at the time had some interest in that.
    The time around The Killing Fields movie is an obvious exception to that.

    The Dead Kennedys did a good song about it too.

    It was over 40 years ago, so not surprised if the youngsters don't know about Pol Pot any more than they do about Biafra or Mengistu.
    Years not been terribly kind to old Jello, though the fire still burns strong.




  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    Brown's Central Hotel
    Rua da Assunção nº75, Lisboa, Lisboa, 1100-042, Portugal
    +351 213 470 964

    reservations@brownshotelgroup.com

    We booked a small room and it was, but so what. Nice central location, very friendly, no complaints.

    Note - There are two Brown's hotels and I can't speak for the other one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Clearly everyone has tuned into the cricket highlights.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited June 2023
    Just had a great woke moment.

    Joined a call to discuss throwing a party next week for Pride month.

    One of the young team members suggested that to do so short notice might cause offence to the LGBTQI+ community as it seemed too frivolous.

    Everyone solemnly agreed.

    Conclusion, party goes ahead, but it’ll be about summer instead.

    Pride will make do with a “something later in the month”, “maybe a guest speaker”. Save us from these new puritans.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited June 2023
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    There should be a sane way to insure against care costs otherwise you just end up penalising the prudent (or unlucky).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I don’t know any trans people.
    But, if it’s not my imagination, I see a reasonable amount of trans people in NYC.

    Which is odd because the demographic of Manhattan skews older than Central London. But there appear to be more (young) trans people here.

    Could just be anecdata.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I don’t know any trans people.
    But, if it’s not my imagination, I see a reasonable amount of trans people in NYC.

    Which is odd because the demographic of Manhattan skews older than Central London. But there appear to be more (young) trans people here.

    Could just be anecdata.
    Man-ecdata
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,961

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I stayed here about 5 years ago.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g189158-d4067231-Reviews-Olissippo_Saldanha-Lisbon_Lisbon_District_Central_Portugal.html
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes but I wonder how life-transforming the inheritance would actually be, given that probably anyone whose parents are well-off are probably better off themselves, they'd probably be sharing any legacy with siblings, and are probably also past middle age.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,730
    edited June 2023
    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes. And it isn't even treated as a disease, even though it clearly is one.

    The NHS won't provide any care for a dementia sufferer, but if you get cancer, it is a different matter.

    I know it will be expensive, but there needs to be an equitable solution instead of a lottery.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Lisbon: Might be a bit pricey, but you can sneak up to the roof terrace. And the restaurant is good.

    https://www.bairroaltohotel.com/en/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I’ve only been there once, but did Airbnb, and it was great. FWIW.

    Do not miss visiting the Gulbenkian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    Just had a great woke moment.

    Joined a call to discuss throwing a party next week for Pride month.

    One of the young team members suggested that to do so short notice might cause offence to the LGBTQI+ community as it seemed too frivolous.

    Everyone solemnly agreed.

    Conclusion, party goes ahead, but it’ll be about summer instead.

    Pride will make do with a “something later in the month”, “maybe a guest speaker”. Save us from these new puritans.

    Bit different here where Pride seems to be an all weekend party.
  • FffsFffs Posts: 76
    Nigelb said:

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I’ve only been there once, but did Airbnb, and it was great. FWIW.

    Do not miss visiting the Gulbenkian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
    I can recommend the Memmo Alfama Hotel - and yes, absolutely echo the comment on the Gulbenkian, spend at least half a day there if you can.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
    They were often talking about Pol Pot on children's TV show Blue Peter in the late 80s / early 90s if I remember correctly…
    I first heard about it reading about John Dawson Dewhirst in (I think) a Sunday Times magazine, some time in my late teens.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dawson_Dewhirst

    I’m not sure it’s a forgotten genocide as much as a frequently ignored one - the US at the time had some interest in that.
    The time around The Killing Fields movie is an obvious exception to that.

    The Dead Kennedys did a good song about it too.

    It was over 40 years ago, so not surprised if the youngsters don't know about Pol Pot any more than they do about Biafra or Mengistu.
    Brings to mind a delightful Dead Kennedy's cover by Nouvelle Vague :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DElRqo8u1vQ

    (Rather less horrific than the theme, I admit)

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    Taz said:

    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    When I first got together with my now wife I watched that shit on a Friday night. The only film worse we saw together was Ps I Love You.
    This seems ripe for a "Worst film you've ever seen in the cinema" series.

    For me - "Triple Bogey on a Par Five Hole". Apart from being awful, when I walked - as the single viewer - into the room the ticket person asked in confidential tones ".... Are you... sure?".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    When I first got together with my now wife I watched that shit on a Friday night. The only film worse we saw together was Ps I Love You.
    This seems ripe for a "Worst film you've ever seen in the cinema" series.

    For me - "Triple Bogey on a Par Five Hole". Apart from being awful, when I walked - as the single viewer - into the room the ticket person asked in confidential tones ".... Are you... sure?".
    Easy peasy:

    The four worst, all of which were so bad I couldn't make it through to the end, were:

    - The Da Vinci Code
    - Wimbledon
    - Boat Trip
    - Second Exotic Marigold Yawnfest

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes but I wonder how life-transforming the inheritance would actually be, given that probably anyone whose parents are well-off are probably better off themselves, they'd probably be sharing any legacy with siblings, and are probably also past middle age.
    Self-evidently this is going to vary wildly depending on the number of heirs and the value of the home; however, let's say that the average deceased pensioner house is worth about £300,000 and the average number of heirs is two (siblings, receiving half each.) That's £150,000 which, depending on the circumstances of said late-middle aged heir, might pay off the mortgage, go towards a substantial deposit for kids trapped renting, purchase a flat to provide rental income, or accelerate the glidepath to early retirement. And there could very easily be two potential such fat inheritances coming to a couple, one from each set of parents.

    Yes. And it isn't even treated as a disease, even though it clearly is one.

    The NHS won't provide any care for a dementia sufferer, but if you get cancer, it is a different matter.

    I know it will be expensive, but there needs to be an equitable solution instead of a lottery.

    Oh yes, dementia care on the state would be very expensive, and realistically the only way to pay for it - given that incomes are already being taxed to buggery - would be... substantially higher taxation of assets. The obvious choices being things such as land value taxation of homeowners, and higher and more broad-based taxation of legacies.

    The grey vote, it would seem, resents and despises such suggestions. In effect, they'd rather keep a grip on all their loot and trust to pot luck that they don't end up demented, rather than contributing to what would amount to a collective insurance scheme to levy a chunk of all estates, so as to ensure that no estates are wiped out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Nigelb said:

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    I’ve only been there once, but did Airbnb, and it was great. FWIW.

    Do not miss visiting the Gulbenkian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
    Also. Read The Prize before you visit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
    The only Trans person I know well is a friend of Fox jr2, and whose father is a smallholder and works in engineering too.

    I think working class Trans people are like working class guys, under recognised rather than non existent.
    I have no idea who the parents are of the very few trans people I know. It seems utterly irrelevant. Why would anyone want to make a point about this?
    Opportunity to use the word “smallholder”.
    They're dad farms about 40 acres, so a reasonable description I would think, and hence the need for a second job in engineering. I have known them since Fox Jr was in Beavers together.

    HYUFD was rather implying that being Trans is a middle class affectation. I don't think it is.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    Just had a great woke moment.

    Joined a call to discuss throwing a party next week for Pride month.

    One of the young team members suggested that to do so short notice might cause offence to the LGBTQI+ community as it seemed too frivolous.

    Everyone solemnly agreed.

    Conclusion, party goes ahead, but it’ll be about summer instead.

    Pride will make do with a “something later in the month”, “maybe a guest speaker”. Save us from these new puritans.

    When is Sloth month? That's the one I'm really looking forward to.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    Yes but if they have a major capital asset, why shouldn't they pay rather than the tax payer?
    I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that the notion peddled by Liz Truss, HYUFD and their disciples that everyone has a million pound plus property to bequeath to their nearest and dearest is somewhat scuppered, not by inheritance tax but by residential care costs.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    edited June 2023

    Any seasoned travellers, in Lisbon would you recommend hotel or Airbnb?

    Airbnb. Public Transport and taxis are good, English is widely spoken, food is decent and well-priced. No need for the protections of a hotel.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes. And it isn't even treated as a disease, even though it clearly is one.

    The NHS won't provide any care for a dementia sufferer, but if you get cancer, it is a different matter.

    I know it will be expensive, but there needs to be an equitable solution instead of a lottery.
    But Dementia is treated as a disease by the NHS.

    If someone winds up in Social Care because of a stroke, or blindness or Schizophrenia, they also have to pay for it.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    About Time is the most underrated film released since 2000.

    When I first got together with my now wife I watched that shit on a Friday night. The only film worse we saw together was Ps I Love You.
    This seems ripe for a "Worst film you've ever seen in the cinema" series.

    For me - "Triple Bogey on a Par Five Hole". Apart from being awful, when I walked - as the single viewer - into the room the ticket person asked in confidential tones ".... Are you... sure?".
    Easy peasy:

    The four worst, all of which were so bad I couldn't make it through to the end, were:

    - The Da Vinci Code
    - Wimbledon
    - Boat Trip
    - Second Exotic Marigold Yawnfest

    Goodness - you need to watch 'Triple Bogey...'. Those are all high-octane engaging masterpieces in comparison.

    The only film I've nearly walked out on is 'Dog Days' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Days_(2001_film) ) which is... utterly soul destroying. And repulsive. And... any other grim term you care to throw around.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    edited June 2023
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is Inheritance Tax levied on estates and not recipients? It seems it would be much more logical for the recipients of inheritance to be taxed, rather than the estates themselves.

    And why not simply have a lifetime gift allowance, that includes pre-inheritance gifts?

    You're absolutely right.

    But, of course, the people who complain most loudly about Inheritance Tax aren't really complaining because of their deep sympathy for poor old grandma, whose dearest last wish is to pass on her earned estate (which definitely didn't result from house price rises since 1970 but the sweat of her dear old brow) to her nearest and dearest.

    No, they just want a fat cheque when the old coffin dodger croaks at last. The complainants, to a large extent, ARE the recipients, and they don't want gran spreading her inheritence to a load of great-grand-nephews and whatever, as would be the incentive in your proposal.

    I accept that is a generalisation, and people oppose IHT for various reasons. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.
    I'm amazed that only 1-in-20 estates are over £325,000 in the UK. I would have thought the number would be more like 1-in-5 or 1-in-6.
    That 325000 does not include the first 180,000 of the value of the primary residence.

    Plus, it's one of the easiest taxes to avoid.

    Your figure would probably be correct if it weren't for that.
    What a ridiculous exemption. Just make the threshold £500k, and get rid of the primary residence absurdity.
    Actually, I forgot another exemption. A married couple get a double allowance and there is no tax on an estate passing to the survivor.

    So effectively the nil rate band for a widow/widower leaving an estate including a house to their children/grandchildren is around £830,000.


    Not that hard for most people to make sure their assets come in under or close to that even with a very nice house in a rich area.
    If the home owner requires nursing home residency the average house value will be consumed in around five years at costs of around 6 grand a month per person. If they are a couple riddled with dementia make that two and a half years before the family home is reduced to c28 grand per person and a pile of dust.
    This is basically right - there are certain wheezes that can be used to protect at least some of the value of a house from the grasping mitts of the local council under very particular circumstances, but basically it's pot luck as to whether the heirs of elderly homeowners receive a life-transforming fortune or the last few grand.

    It's one of the myriad ways in which dementia is oh so very cruel. Sufferers, particularly as the rot becomes more advanced, frequently linger on with no quality of life for years, AND burn almost everything they wanted to leave to their kids in the process.
    Yes but I wonder how life-transforming the inheritance would actually be, given that probably anyone whose parents are well-off are probably better off themselves, they'd probably be sharing any legacy with siblings, and are probably also past middle age.
    Self-evidently this is going to vary wildly depending on the number of heirs and the value of the home; however, let's say that the average deceased pensioner house is worth about £300,000 and the average number of heirs is two (siblings, receiving half each.) That's £150,000 which, depending on the circumstances of said late-middle aged heir, might pay off the mortgage, go towards a substantial deposit for kids trapped renting, purchase a flat to provide rental income, or accelerate the glidepath to early retirement. And there could very easily be two potential such fat inheritances coming to a couple, one from each set of parents.
    Life-enhancing rather than life-changing in most cases, I should think, owing to the likely age and life-circumstance of the beneficiaries.
This discussion has been closed.