Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Why This Fight? Why Now? – politicalbetting.com

12467

Comments

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,208

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    The fact Greta parents are also super well connected wealthy people in Sweden is something rarely mentioned.
    Really? By some mischance I think I’ve escaped the conspiracy of silence and seen it mentioned quite a bit.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862
    edited June 2023
    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,361
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I've got a US road trip coming up for the Gazette, and I want to explore Virginia, Maryland maybe Kentucky, especially Civil War sites. Anyone got any recommendations? What are the most resonant battlefields? Gettysburg? Atietam?

    Gettysburg is the classic, but of course swamped by Americans on trips or paying their homage. Giant flag, giant car park, lots of coaches, etc.

    In Virginia down by Richmond yacht basin there is a wealth of under-visited civil war sites that will give you a good feel for how the war played out away from the big battles.

    In Kentucky, not so much by way of battle sites, but the people are mighty friendly and the Kentucky Lakes region is worth exploring (if you ignore the dead fish floating about due pollution).

    Maryland, get yourself down to St Michael’s. There’s no civil war stuff down there, but if you ask for oysters they will bring you a menu with ten different types to choose from. The Maritime museum there is supposed to be worth a visit; when I was there it was underwater, which was taking being a maritime museum a tad too seriously.

    Not much of a detour, check out Chattanooga and the hills just to the south, where a ferocious civil war encounter took place. The trenches are still there to see, if you take a walk in the woods.
    Oooh, really useful. Ta
    Don't know if you read much fiction, but I can recommend Bernard Cornwell's Starbuck series. Only four books and didn't get much past the middle of the war as his character was fighting for the South, and things didn't go so well for them after '63, but provide a good 'history' in an accessible way.
    The Civil War section of Chernow's Grant biography is probably more succinct.

    Vicksburg (which remains quite a small town) might be an interesting visit. A turning point of the war.
    Franklin in Tennessee is amazing. Site of a fairly brief but terrifically brutal overnight battle, where the corpses were piled so high you could walk on them from the drapers to the church

    There is a museum called Carter House where you can see the purple blood stains from all the emergency amputations

    Extraordinary
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2023

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    England should go for a thousand. Get batting practice in before the Ozzies.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Maybe, but even if you did all that why should anyone outside your company give a toss? This story has obsessed the media for weeks now. It is fantastically picayune. Move on
    The media are obsessed with the media, and it does appear that this particular individual has managed to upset a lot of people in his industry.
    Media obsessed by the media & twitter.....

    I think it is also a lot the holier than thou tone ITV has taken on so many occasions, which means a lot of people in the biz are pissed off at the hyprocrisy / have experienced double standards.
    True.

    On the same basis, you should NEVER go to a play about actors or a film about film-makers. They are almost always both warmly reviewed and total horse-sh1t.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,729
    Leon said:

    Tho not as haunting as the Killing Fields of Cheong Ek, where you can easily find human bones and teeth

    Obturation is the word of the day for you.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minié_ball
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919

    Sandpit said:

    About to be 200 for Pope, and 11,000 Test runs for Root, in quick succession.

    Then, do they declare?

    Sheffield's Joe Root has achieved his 11,000th test run.
    With surprisingly little fanfare at the ground.

    They should really declare now, but it would be awfully rude to leave Root on 197*
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,959
    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,361

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,336
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The inheritance tax campaign is another example of a generalised Tory deafness-to-the-point-of-insanity.

    Nobody wants to hear about more tax cuts for the wealthy from a tax dodger and the lady that nearly broke the gilt markets.

    Wrong, 50% of voters think inheritance tax is unfair or very unfair, ie almost double the current Tory voteshare.

    The vast majority of Conservative voters think IHT is unfair or very unfair.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/how-fair-is-inheritance-tax
    Perhaps some think it’s unfair because it’s not high enough.
    65% of British voters back raising the IHT threshold from £325k to £1 million (including 60% of Scots backing that too)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/01/07/public-attitudes-inheritance-tax
    You are quoting a poll from 2015 to make your argument

    That is a lifetime ago and before covid and the war in Ukraine wrecked the economy
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,729
    @ydoethur turned out to be correct after all.
    Bairstow still can't buy a run in this test.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862

    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/

    There’s no need to make fun of the Welsh or the state educated, even if you are trying to be ironic? It makes you seem boorish and gammony.

    I am state educated, and my surname is Welsh.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    England should go for a thousand. Get batting practice in before the Ozzies.

    I think the Australian bowling attack might be a bit less club cricket pace though.....might actually be a negative to get yourself so comfortable with medium paced dobbers when you are going to get 90+ from both ends for hours.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    I am proud to have never eaten beef, what has beef ever given us apart from BSE/Mad Cow disease and this?

    More than 800m Amazon trees felled in six years to meet beef demand

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/02/more-than-800m-amazon-trees-felled-in-six-years-to-meet-beef-demand
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,893
    Sandpit said:

    ...They’re almost all very upper-middle-class...

    Unlike PB, of course...

    [ducks]

    :lol:

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    True.

    On the same basis, you should NEVER go to a play about actors or a film about film-makers. They are almost always both warmly reviewed and total horse-sh1t.

    That's a good rule-of-thumb, but Truffaut's La Nuit Américaine (Day for Night) is hilarious (and stars Jacqueline Bisset..)
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,361
    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,482
    ....
    Leon said:

    US payrolls up 339k.
    The economy is incredibly robust.
    No sign of wage-price spiral.

    Recession, what recession.

    It kinda helps to be entirely self-sufficient in energy, during an energy crisis
    We have oil, gas, and coal aplenty.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in its broader, feudal notions.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862

    True.

    On the same basis, you should NEVER go to a play about actors or a film about film-makers. They are almost always both warmly reviewed and total horse-sh1t.

    That's a good rule-of-thumb, but Truffaut's La Nuit Américaine (Day for Night) is hilarious (and stars Jacqueline Bisset..)
    Fellini’s 8 1/2 is a total classic.
    If you like Fellini.
    Which I do.
    At least, the early stuff before he went OTT.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,135
    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    Don't be a prat. You wrote some imaginative fiction about what might have happened if you met an "underage schoolgirl".

    I think you understand what I wrote perfectly well, and I'm not going to insult anyone's intelligence by labouring the point further.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,361

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,959
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701
    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    edited June 2023

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some women outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    edited June 2023

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,893

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    No, that's Blazing Saddles

    :lol:
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Washington's house Mount Vernon is worth a visit. It is just outside DC.

    https://www.mountvernon.org/
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,361

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    My hatred of Nazism is ultimately not even ideological. It’s fear and repulsion.

    I don’t go into it for the same reason I won’t read news articles about murdered/abused children.
    I hear you on the kids thing. One place I can't go is books about true crime involving children. It is too distressing, as a parent

    I read one brilliantly bleak book about Fred and Rosey West and it made me so sad I decided, never again

    Somehow the Nazis are easier to read about than that. Also, they are more important. You need to read about Nazism to understand how it arose and how it can be opposed. Ditto Pol Pot, arguably even more so, as everyone has forgotten about him

    The other day it happened to me again: an educated young woman admitted she had never heard of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge, none of it. Scandalous

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-forgot-about-pol-pot/
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/

    There’s no need to make fun of the Welsh or the state educated, even if you are trying to be ironic? It makes you seem boorish and gammony.

    I am state educated, and my surname is Welsh.
    And suddenly it all makes sense.....
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,482

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Just stop linseed oil
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523

    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/

    There’s no need to make fun of the Welsh or the state educated, even if you are trying to be ironic? It makes you seem boorish and gammony.

    I am state educated, and my surname is Welsh.
    I am the least gammony person in the world.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,193

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,836

    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/

    There’s no need to make fun of the Welsh or the state educated, even if you are trying to be ironic? It makes you seem boorish and gammony.

    I am state educated, and my surname is Welsh.
    I am the least gammony person in the world.
    TBF he did say "seem". And they do speak Welsh - or, let's be more accurate, pukka British - on BBC.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,893

    Ugh, so much wrong with this woman.

    A state-educated Welsh speaker will be the acting BBC chairman after Richard Sharp’s resignation.

    Professor Dame Elan Closs Stephens was appointed to lead the BBC’s board on Friday by Lucy Frazer, the Culture Secretary, for twelve months or until a new permanent chairman has been found.

    The Oxford alumnus vowed to “champion the licence fee payer across all of the UK”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/dame-elan-cross-stephens-acting-bbc-chair-richard-sharp/

    There’s no need to make fun of the Welsh or the state educated, even if you are trying to be ironic? It makes you seem boorish and gammony.

    I am state educated, and my surname is Welsh.
    I am the least gammony person in the world.
    Which would make you yn ommag. Which also sounds Welsh, come to think of it... :smiley:
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    I remember when Charlie Gilmour when on a drug fuelled rampage at the student riots, got banged up and Cambridge let him back in....nothing to do with his famous dad of course. Which then enabled him to have a successful career as a journalist and a writer.

    I wonder if the same would have happened to somebody less well connected?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,836
    Don't know if anyone else has noticved, but there is a rather sad series on modern mores in the Graun: the covid outbreak has had a deep impact, a fair number of the interviewees feel.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/britain-behaving-badly
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Don't know if anyone else has noticved, but there is a rather sad series on modern mores in the Graun: the covid outbreak has had a deep impact, a fair number of the interviewees feel.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/britain-behaving-badly

    If only the media hadn't screamed lockdown now, every day of every week for 2+ years.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2023
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix, but cars you can't even scale in the way home grocery shopping can, as cars are obviously big and heavy, so the lorry can only take a handful of them at a time.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    edited June 2023

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix.
    Yes, the costs are astronomical, but that was okay when used car prices suddenly started going up, so they convinced themselves they had a great business model. Yes, the reality is that the costs are proportional to sales, and the model works as well as sending someone to your house to deliver 2 pints of milk and a Twix.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Wow, that’s how you hit a 200!
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,775

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
    An F1 car hitting someone would probably kill the driver too
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    Didn't know who he was till the Queen lying in state thing. Thought the official statement about "I no longer have a brother" was overblown, melodramatic and vindictive as well as not being true. Now I think, karma's a bitch.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    Bazball is rubbish, bring back Boycott approach to test cricket.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    edited June 2023
    That’ll be that then. 353 the target! Back to the F1 practice.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
    An F1 car hitting someone would probably kill the driver too
    I doubt it these days. After previous tragedies, the level of protection the drivers have now is incredible.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
    An F1 car hitting someone would probably kill the driver too
    Nah. I refer you to the Grosjean crash.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523

    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
    An F1 car hitting someone would probably kill the driver too
    I doubt it these days. After previous tragedies, the level of protection the drivers have now is incredible.
    I got it so wrong about the HALO.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919

    CatMan said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    You don’t want to read the F1 forums, after the judge failed to jail last year’s Silverstone protestors.
    Oh I have.

    Sadly I suspect it will end with a few of these being killed and it taking a huge toll on the drivers.
    An F1 car hitting someone would probably kill the driver too
    Nah. I refer you to the Grosjean crash.
    I was positive I’d just seen someone killed on live TV with that one.

    I’m not sure any protestors this year are going to be able to get past the crowd and the marshals. And said crowd and marshals won’t be letting the police take them away to be quietly bailed again either.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,615
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've got a US road trip coming up for the Gazette, and I want to explore Virginia, Maryland maybe Kentucky, especially Civil War sites. Anyone got any recommendations? What are the most resonant battlefields? Gettysburg? Atietam?

    Why not OHIO?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Buffington_Island

    The island is in today's West Virginia, but battle took place in Ohio; VERY peaceful spot nowadays.

    BUT conveniently located near Blennerhasset Island, which played a key role in Burr's Conspiracy (whatever the heck THAT was). Visit to reconstructed manor house and grounds features a fun boat ride.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blennerhassett_Island_Historical_State_Park

    Honorable mention:

    > Gettysburg well worth visit, chock full of tourists and ticky-tacky, but also much of genuine interest; just seeing the majestic lay of the land gives you a feel for the epic nature of the 3-day battle. Beautiful in its own right.

    > Harpers Ferry and Antietam (close to each other) and both well worth visiting.

    > Fredericksburg by contrast is NOT spread across the landscape, but rather small in scope. Again, easy to visualize what hell was like there back in the day; also famous for the assault of Union's Irish Brigade (and number of other units) against Confederates entrenched on Marye's Heights;

    "Wherever there's Kellys there's trouble, " said Burke.
    "Wherever fighting's the game,
    Or a spice of danger in grown man's work,"
    Said Kelly, " you'll find my name."
    "And do we fall short, " said Burke, getting mad,
    "When it's touch and go for life?"
    Said Shea, "It's thirty-odd years, bedad,
    Since I charged to drum and fife
    Up Marye's Heights, and my old canteen
    Stopped a rebel ball on its way;
    There were blossoms of blood on our sprigs of green —
    Kelly and Burke and Shea —
    And the dead didn't brag." "Well, here's to the flag!"
    Said Kelly and Burke and Shea.

    Thanks!

    Anything else in the area while I am tootling around? I've got 8 or 9 days (tho I also want a couple of days in DC - never been)
    Skyline Drive, in the northern Blue Ridge Mountains just west of DC, not far. Also southern extension, Blue Ridge Parkway. 9Models for the subsequent Natchez Trace Parkway which you infested last year.)

    Plenty to see and do in Our Nation's Capital, my favs are US Capitol, Smithsonian (pick your museum) and National Archives. Also Madam's Organ 'hood (aka Adams Morgan) and Embassy Row.

    Outside DC but not far, in addition to already mentioned:

    > Annapolis, Maryland - lots of boats, plus US Naval Academy
    > Hot Springs, VA - George Washington took a dip or two here.
    > Greenbrier Hotel, White Sulphur Springs, WV

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greenbrier
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    I like reading about them specifically because of reading about those who stood firm. Admiral Canaris, the White Rose movement and many others. Reading about what they did in the face of overwhelming odds is both inspirational and instructive. The same goes for those from the Antebellum South who chose to fight against their own states as a matter of principle. It puts thelie to those who claimed they either did not know or had no choice but to comply and become complicit.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,729
    US clearly wants to avoid getting into an accidental war with China.
    This is sensible.

    “Last month, (CIA) director Burns travelled to Beijing where he met with Chinese counterparts and emphasised the importance of maintaining open lines of communications in intelligence channels,” said the US official.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1664639644581998599
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,499

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    I like reading about them specifically because of reading about those who stood firm. Admiral Canaris, the White Rose movement and many others. Reading about what they did in the face of overwhelming odds is both inspirational and instructive. The same goes for those from the Antebellum South who chose to fight against their own states as a matter of principle. It puts thelie to those who claimed they either did not know or had no choice but to comply and become complicit.
    Canaris was a anti-democratic hard core nationalist who was up for conquering Europe. He was involved in the Rosa Luxemburg murder and the coverup.

    Reinhard Heidrich was a protégée - some suspect Heidrich was an infiltrator into the Nazi party, run by Canaris, initially. They remained good friends, despite becoming rivals in the Nazi secret police establishment, until Heidrich was assassinated.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    What would have Ian Paisley had to say?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,126
    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    It's an excellent book. I studied the US Civil War in SYS history and this was our textbook.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
    Protest is fine. Disruption is not.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix.
    Yes, the costs are astronomical, but that was okay when used car prices suddenly started going up, so they convinced themselves they had a great business model. Yes, the reality is that the costs are proportional to sales, and the model works as well as sending someone to your house to deliver 2 pints of milk and a Twix.
    I think it's perfectly possible to make it work - at several thousand pounds, the bid-ask spread on used cars is pretty wide.

    But it is an area that is extremely sensitive to rate rises. If you're sitting on 500 cars worth £15,000 each, you have £75m of inventory. If you're paying 3%, then that's a little more than £2m/year in interest payments. If interest rates jump 5 or 6%, then you can suddenly be on the hook for £7m/year.

    Now, if you combine falling values of used cars and a rising cost of carry, then suddenly things can get real expensive real fast for used car vendors. And this is especially true if you've been growing too quickly, because that is what your shareholders and VCs wanted. Suddenly, you have a bunch of vehicles worth less than they were and your interest payments have trebled. And to move them, you need to spend money on sales and marketing, but you suddenly have no money.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025
    Nigelb said:

    US clearly wants to avoid getting into an accidental war with China.
    This is sensible.

    “Last month, (CIA) director Burns travelled to Beijing where he met with Chinese counterparts and emphasised the importance of maintaining open lines of communications in intelligence channels,” said the US official.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1664639644581998599

    I also suspect that Russia was discussed.

  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix.
    Yes, the costs are astronomical, but that was okay when used car prices suddenly started going up, so they convinced themselves they had a great business model. Yes, the reality is that the costs are proportional to sales, and the model works as well as sending someone to your house to deliver 2 pints of milk and a Twix.
    I think it's perfectly possible to make it work - at several thousand pounds, the bid-ask spread on used cars is pretty wide.

    But it is an area that is extremely sensitive to rate rises. If you're sitting on 500 cars worth £15,000 each, you have £75m of inventory. If you're paying 3%, then that's a little more than £2m/year in interest payments. If interest rates jump 5 or 6%, then you can suddenly be on the hook for £7m/year.

    Now, if you combine falling values of used cars and a rising cost of carry, then suddenly things can get real expensive real fast for used car vendors. And this is especially true if you've been growing too quickly, because that is what your shareholders and VCs wanted. Suddenly, you have a bunch of vehicles worth less than they were and your interest payments have trebled. And to move them, you need to spend money on sales and marketing, but you suddenly have no money.
    Yes. But they weren’t making several thousand pounds spread. They were paying retail for inventory, and now have thousands of cars worth considerably less than they paid for them. They spent $75m for $65m of cars, so they’re on the hook for $10m in depreciation as well as the $7m of interest.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
    Just say a hundred Hail Marys and complete an act of contrition and you’re all good.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix.
    Yes, the costs are astronomical, but that was okay when used car prices suddenly started going up, so they convinced themselves they had a great business model. Yes, the reality is that the costs are proportional to sales, and the model works as well as sending someone to your house to deliver 2 pints of milk and a Twix.
    I think it's perfectly possible to make it work - at several thousand pounds, the bid-ask spread on used cars is pretty wide.

    But it is an area that is extremely sensitive to rate rises. If you're sitting on 500 cars worth £15,000 each, you have £75m of inventory. If you're paying 3%, then that's a little more than £2m/year in interest payments. If interest rates jump 5 or 6%, then you can suddenly be on the hook for £7m/year.

    Now, if you combine falling values of used cars and a rising cost of carry, then suddenly things can get real expensive real fast for used car vendors. And this is especially true if you've been growing too quickly, because that is what your shareholders and VCs wanted. Suddenly, you have a bunch of vehicles worth less than they were and your interest payments have trebled. And to move them, you need to spend money on sales and marketing, but you suddenly have no money.
    Yes. But they weren’t making several thousand pounds spread. They were paying retail for inventory, and now have thousands of cars worth considerably less than they paid for them. They spent $75m for $65m of cars, so they’re on the hook for $10m in depreciation as well as the $7m of interest.
    I'm not saying they did it right, I'm saying that it is possible to make selling cars over the Internet work.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,126
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've got a US road trip coming up for the Gazette, and I want to explore Virginia, Maryland maybe Kentucky, especially Civil War sites. Anyone got any recommendations? What are the most resonant battlefields? Gettysburg? Atietam?

    Why not OHIO?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Buffington_Island

    The island is in today's West Virginia, but battle took place in Ohio; VERY peaceful spot nowadays.

    BUT conveniently located near Blennerhasset Island, which played a key role in Burr's Conspiracy (whatever the heck THAT was). Visit to reconstructed manor house and grounds features a fun boat ride.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blennerhassett_Island_Historical_State_Park

    Honorable mention:

    > Gettysburg well worth visit, chock full of tourists and ticky-tacky, but also much of genuine interest; just seeing the majestic lay of the land gives you a feel for the epic nature of the 3-day battle. Beautiful in its own right.

    > Harpers Ferry and Antietam (close to each other) and both well worth visiting.

    > Fredericksburg by contrast is NOT spread across the landscape, but rather small in scope. Again, easy to visualize what hell was like there back in the day; also famous for the assault of Union's Irish Brigade (and number of other units) against Confederates entrenched on Marye's Heights;

    "Wherever there's Kellys there's trouble, " said Burke.
    "Wherever fighting's the game,
    Or a spice of danger in grown man's work,"
    Said Kelly, " you'll find my name."
    "And do we fall short, " said Burke, getting mad,
    "When it's touch and go for life?"
    Said Shea, "It's thirty-odd years, bedad,
    Since I charged to drum and fife
    Up Marye's Heights, and my old canteen
    Stopped a rebel ball on its way;
    There were blossoms of blood on our sprigs of green —
    Kelly and Burke and Shea —
    And the dead didn't brag." "Well, here's to the flag!"
    Said Kelly and Burke and Shea.

    Thanks!

    Anything else in the area while I am tootling around? I've got 8 or 9 days (tho I also want a couple of days in DC - never been)
    The African American history museum is really excellent, I would say it is easily the best of the Smithsonian museums. I would recommend spending some time at the Lincoln Memorial. Reading the Gettysberg Address engraved there is always a spine-tingling moment. I really like Baltimore, it has a real faded glamour thing going on. I agree on Harpers Ferry, a really atmospheric well preserved 19C town with a lot of Civil War connections.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    Are we going to be shocked in Riz also did a gap yaaaaaah in which they globe trotted around the world using mummy and daddies money, while Dad was throwing paint at doors and such like as part of XR.

    I am still disappointed that Manu Tuilagi didn't tackle one of those dickheads last weekend! They would be still stitching them back together.
    The one I'm looking forward to is if JSO interrupt the darts.

    That will be interesting as I'm sure the fans will sit quietly and wait for security to deal with it.
    Am I right in remembering that there was an occasion when a fight broke out and it ended up with a load of people dressed in superhero outfits having a dust up.
    I do vaguely remember that.

    I saw something similar at close of play at Edgbaston one year, some blokes were harassing some woman outside of the ground.

    Saw the Pink Panther, Sylvester the Cat, Tweetie Pie, and Foghorn Leghorn get into a dustup.
    It has to be nailed on that JSO disrupt the cricket this summer.
    Yeah, apparently they are targeting the Ashes because England are sponsored by Cinch, who also sponsor the darts.
    To be fair, those adverts are ****ing annoying.
    Isn't online car selling another one of these e-commerce business models that doesn't work, and they all lose a boat load of money? But they seem to advertise absolutely everywhere.
    It worked during the pandemic, but they all now have shedloads of way overpriced stock they’re trying to drip out slowly to stop prices crashing.
    My understanding is that its a flawed business model from the start, because its really inefficient to have to keep dragging cars back and forth to individual addresses. Same way as UberEats etc, is super inefficient way of delivering 2 pints of a milk and a twix.
    Yes, the costs are astronomical, but that was okay when used car prices suddenly started going up, so they convinced themselves they had a great business model. Yes, the reality is that the costs are proportional to sales, and the model works as well as sending someone to your house to deliver 2 pints of milk and a Twix.
    I think it's perfectly possible to make it work - at several thousand pounds, the bid-ask spread on used cars is pretty wide.

    But it is an area that is extremely sensitive to rate rises. If you're sitting on 500 cars worth £15,000 each, you have £75m of inventory. If you're paying 3%, then that's a little more than £2m/year in interest payments. If interest rates jump 5 or 6%, then you can suddenly be on the hook for £7m/year.

    Now, if you combine falling values of used cars and a rising cost of carry, then suddenly things can get real expensive real fast for used car vendors. And this is especially true if you've been growing too quickly, because that is what your shareholders and VCs wanted. Suddenly, you have a bunch of vehicles worth less than they were and your interest payments have trebled. And to move them, you need to spend money on sales and marketing, but you suddenly have no money.
    Yes. But they weren’t making several thousand pounds spread. They were paying retail for inventory, and now have thousands of cars worth considerably less than they paid for them. They spent $75m for $65m of cars, so they’re on the hook for $10m in depreciation as well as the $7m of interest.
    I'm not saying they did it right, I'm saying that it is possible to make selling cars over the Internet work.
    Tesla's used car business is all online and is enormously profitable.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,615
    Re: sights (and sites) to see in and around DC, add

    > Chesapeake and Potomac Canal, early transportation project begun by George Washington, a bust as a commercial proposition, but a great scenic, historic attraction two centuries later.

    > Shenandoah Valley, aka The Valley of Virginia, long valley between Blue Ridge and Alleghany / Appalachian mountains. Natural artery of exploration and settlement; Daniel Boone took the Valley southwestwards first to North Carolina, then across Cumberland Gap to Kentucky). Also key cockpit of Civil War, where Stonewall Jackson ran rings around the Yankees and whupped their asses in style of young Napoleon Bonaparte. Highly scenic, with interesting side jaunts to Natural Bridge and Luray Caverns.

    > New River Gorge, in southern West Virginia, carved by the oldest river in North America; it was new to the first White settlers, and the first river they encountered flowing northwest into the Ohio, instead of east or south into (eventually) the Atlantic. DEEP gorge with HIGH bridge and WILD white water rafting.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
    Protest is fine. Disruption is not.
    So, how did you feel about the Euromaidan Revolution?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,315

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
    Just say a hundred Hail Marys and complete an act of contrition and you’re all good.
    No he wouldn't be. No good comes of the Hundred.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,516
    ydoethur said:

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
    Just say a hundred Hail Marys and complete an act of contrition and you’re all good.
    No he wouldn't be. No good comes of the Hundred.
    That's why you have to say the Hail Marys.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,762

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
    What's wrong with voting every 5 years as a means of protest?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,315

    ydoethur said:

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
    Just say a hundred Hail Marys and complete an act of contrition and you’re all good.
    No he wouldn't be. No good comes of the Hundred.
    That's why you have to say the Hail Marys.
    I personally just get cross.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,230

    I see America has woken up, the "What is a Woman" video on the Daily Wire tweet has now had over 10 million views.....

    10 million views does not mean 10 million people watched a 90 minute documentary.
    Birth of a Nation was also a big hit at the time.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,791
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
    What's wrong with voting every 5 years as a means of protest?
    You get offered Corbyn vs Bozo......
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    Poor people can’t afford to have luxury beliefs. They get fired if they get arrested and miss a shift. They’re almost all very upper-middle-class.
    So, what you're saying is we should welcome the actions of upper middle class protestors who can go out there and give a voice to issues that affect poor people, because the poor people aren't able to carry the protests? That's very progressive of you.
    No, I’m saying that the entitled tw@s, whose families can afford the expensive lawyers and keep them out of jail, should stop disrupting the lives of the working classes simply trying to go about their business, or sports fans trying to attend a live event.
    So the poor are too poor to protest, and the middle classes shouldn't protest... so, basically, you don't want anyone to ever protest?
    What's wrong with voting every 5 years as a means of protest?
    Are you aware of, say, the history of the civil rights movement in the US or Northern Ireland?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,208
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    I've just started BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM - which is highly rated on amazon as exactly that: a great single volume history. So far it is superb

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/B08KYNVJ6C/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PZ019LF4WBZX&keywords=battle+cry+of+freedom&qid=1685717032&sprefix=battle+cry,aps,168&sr=8-1
    OK thanks.

    I confess to being fascinated by old Southern culture and Southern ideology, which is very politically incorrect of me. Of course I don’t support it, but I would be lying if I said there was no romance in it.

    Whereas I am simply appalled and disgusted by Nazism to the point where I won’t watch TV or reach books about it.

    An interesting dilemma for bien pensant, centrist dad liberal Remoaners living on the Upper West Side.
    I am fascinated by both - the Old South, and Nazism

    But I don't beat myself up as a racist Nazi as a result

    I am equally fascinated by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot - and by war and conflict in general

    I like dramatic history especially if it is laced with extreme, grandiose or peculiar politics. Humans like theatre. We read books about murder, not dishwashing. It is normal

    I guess I could read "the history of Paddy Ashdown's Lib Dem campaigns" but somehow it is not quite as alluring
    I like reading about them specifically because of reading about those who stood firm. Admiral Canaris, the White Rose movement and many others. Reading about what they did in the face of overwhelming odds is both inspirational and instructive. The same goes for those from the Antebellum South who chose to fight against their own states as a matter of principle. It puts thelie to those who claimed they either did not know or had no choice but to comply and become complicit.
    Canaris was a anti-democratic hard core nationalist who was up for conquering Europe. He was involved in the Rosa Luxemburg murder and the coverup.

    Reinhard Heidrich was a protégée - some suspect Heidrich was an infiltrator into the Nazi party, run by Canaris, initially. They remained good friends, despite becoming rivals in the Nazi secret police establishment, until Heidrich was assassinated.
    Heydrich.
    His unmarked grave can be walked over in the Invalidenfriedhof cemetery in Berlin. Quite a lot of history there, it abuts a section of the wall and a few Junkers military graves from both wars. Udet is buried there, and poor, old Werner Mölders is buried next to him after dying in a plane crash on his way back to the former’s funeral.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited June 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The inheritance tax campaign is another example of a generalised Tory deafness-to-the-point-of-insanity.

    Nobody wants to hear about more tax cuts for the wealthy from a tax dodger and the lady that nearly broke the gilt markets.

    Wrong, 50% of voters think inheritance tax is unfair or very unfair, ie almost double the current Tory voteshare.

    The vast majority of Conservative voters think IHT is unfair or very unfair.
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/how-fair-is-inheritance-tax
    Perhaps some think it’s unfair because it’s not high enough.
    65% of British voters back raising the IHT threshold from £325k to £1 million (including 60% of Scots backing that too)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/01/07/public-attitudes-inheritance-tax
    You are quoting a poll from 2015 to make your argument

    That is a lifetime ago and before covid and the war in Ukraine wrecked the economy
    An October 2022 Yougov poll ie after Covid and the Ukraine war had broken out, had 63% still supporting raising the IHT threshold from £325k and just 16% wanting to increase the 40% IHT rate.

    48% of all voters and 60% of Conservative voters even want to abolish IHT completely

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-support-raising-iht-threshold-above-325k-despite-eyewatering-public-finance-decisions-ahead
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pope gets a double hundred with a six, stumped next ball.

    Declaration.

    I've never understood the details of the Catholic catechism.
    Just say a hundred Hail Marys and complete an act of contrition and you’re all good.
    No he wouldn't be. No good comes of the Hundred.
    That's why you have to say the Hail Marys.
    I personally just get cross.
    I think you nailed it there
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075

    Washington's house Mount Vernon is worth a visit. It is just outside DC.

    https://www.mountvernon.org/

    Yes been there, beautiful location in Virginia and well worth a visit. Gettysburg too is also worth a visit and not too far away in Pennsylvania, we had an excellent guide who really brought it to life followed by a steak dinner in a nearby small town
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,222

    Is there a highly recommended single volume history of the Civil War?

    (I really enjoyed Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark if that is any guide to my general taste in history.)

    Battle Cry of Freedom
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,701

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
    Carrie is 23 years Boris's junior and worked for him before they started a relationship (while he was married to someone else). However, she was 30 at the time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited June 2023

    What a small world.....

    The trans activist who disrupted a talk by Prof Kathleen Stock is the daughter of a council boss who introduced a four-day working week.

    Riz Possnett’s mother Liz Watts was working on a PhD thesis on the topic when South Cambridgeshire District Council last year became the first to implement a trial to cut hours while staff remain on the same pay.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/02/trans-activist-riz-possnett-kathleen-stock-daughter-council/

    So much for just being a poor he/her/they, from a poor family. Mum and dad extremely well connected people, no wonder they can afford the swimming pool and hot tub.

    God, I hate these posh/upper middle class people who pretend to be soil of the earth working class plebs.
    I would of thought being very pro Trans almost certainly marks you out as being more likely to be upper middle class, at least by education, than working class. Probably even more so than opposition to Brexit which is equally a view most strongly held by the upper middle classes
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,753
    This commentator makes a good point. The public generally give governments the benefit of the doubt on Covid. While the public recognise governments may have made the wrong calls at times, they also accept they were dealing with challenging and unclear situations. In any case the public doesn't agree on what the right calls should have been.

    Given that, it's intriguing what the government is trying to hide.

    https://twitter.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1664612971794911232
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    edited June 2023

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Chris said:

    kyf_100 said:

    If I, as a middle aged senior manager within my company, met an underage schoolgirl, befriended her, employed her at my company on graduation, then began an affair with her while she was in my employ, using company expenses to pay for jollies and using company resources to advance her career, then covered it up and lied to HR when asked about it, I would be looking at a sacking and I wouldn't rate my chances of future employment very highly.

    Everything about this, from the age and power gap to the misuse of company resources and lying about it when confronted screams wrong, even if you want to hang onto the threadbare excuse that it was an affair that took place between two consenting adults.

    It's simply not acceptable in a modern workplace.

    On a related note, who remembers this corker of an ad from We Buy any Car on how to create the perfect modern workplace?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MQS-pDTI
    Perhaps it's not the fairest thing in the world to write a piece of imaginative fiction like that, and just imply that Schofield did the equivalent.

    If you want to make accusations against Schofield, probably better to state them explicitly and then cite chapter and verse to back them up. Though admittedly that would be a lot harder than what you did.

    Talking of chapter and verse, funnily enough the BBC carried a clip of one of Schofield's former colleagues quoting John, chapter 8, verse 7. Not a popular verse on social media, for obvious reasons.
    Um, what accusations am I making personally, please? Imaginative fiction? I'm using publicly available stories published in the last week or so:

    Met lover at school while underage -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/phillip-schofield-says-met-ex-30136582

    Alleged to have helped said person get a job working for him when he turned 18 -

    https://www.gbnews.com/celebrity/phillip-schofield-lover-met-school-this-morning-holly-willoughby

    Used company resources to pay for his lover's showreel (thus helping advance his career) -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12144679/EXCLUSIVE-Revealed-ITV-paid-Phillip-Schofields-lovers-astonishing-showreel.html

    Took taxis on expenses paid for by the company -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/phillip-schofields-lover-driven-home-30107843

    Denied affair when confronted by bosses -

    https://news.sky.com/story/itv-investigated-rumours-of-relationship-between-phillip-schofield-and-younger-employee-but-pair-repeatedly-denied-affair-12890561

    Chapter and verse. OK?

    All this just makes you look prurient and curtain-twitchy, to be honest

    Schofield did bad thing, is sacked, career likely over, end of
    I'm just responding to the very serious accusation by @chris that I'm making things up - fairly important so as to not get OGH into trouble. Everything in my original post is now referenced using stories published in the national press.

    I know you don't work in an office, so I'll simply say that I've seen this kind of thing happen all too often in workplace environments and it needs rooting out, hence why it sticks in my craw.

    If someone wants to meet a 15 year old and five years later it turns into a relationship then well, it's probably a bit icky but not really scandalous. But when you use your connections to employ that person, become their boss, and use company resources to advance their career... that's when it makes me mad.
    There is all sorts of justifications used for the vilification of Philip Schofield and some people will no doubt claim that homophobia is not theirs, but @leon is right about the prurience. I can't help thinking that if it had been Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson shagging a 20 year old woman it would be seen very differently. In fact I am sure of it
    Carrie is 23 years Boris's junior and worked for him before they started a relationship (while he was married to someone else). However, she was 30 at the time.
    Indeed, no doubt the Schofield haters who hide their homophobia behind the defence of "abuse of power in the workplace" will overlook that one.

    Someone having sex with a work colleague who is comfortably over the age of consent should not be a career destroying moment. As @Stuartinromford quoted "he who is without sin..."

    If ITV and the BBC, let alone parliament, sacked everyone who had a fling with a more junior colleague there wouldn't be many left.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    10 overs in, and Ireland are 28/2, effectively 28/3 after McCollum retired hurt with a twisted ankle.

    Still 20 overs to bowl this evening, the two-day Test is still on.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited June 2023
    Ahead in the polls for next month's Spanish general election, Spain's conservative Opposition leader promises to repeal the Socialist government's law allowing anyone over the age of 16 to freely change their official gender and under 16s to do so with court approval

    He also vowed to repeal the “democratic memory” law, which made the state responsible to exhume the 100,000 bodies that remain in unmarked graves as a result of repression during Spain’s civil war and the Franco dictatorship.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/02/alberto-nez-feijo-spain-prime-minister-english-election/

This discussion has been closed.