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Kicking issues into the Long Grass – politicalbetting.com

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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,065

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    It’s also such a recent thing. Look at photos of Brits and Yanks in the 70s and they are nearly all slim
    Now they are blobs

    It is also a growing global phenomenon. Continental kids are getting fatter, Thais are fatter, Arabs, Israelis, Aussies: everyone

    A now deceased friend of mine made a film about the return of the body of Robert F Kennedy from California to New York in 1968. The path of the train was lined with people showing their respects. A very large number of those doing so were black. Those on the train were moved by their attendance and took some films from the train which formed the base of the later film.

    What is astonishing, and really noteworthy, is that almost none of those by the tracks are overweight at all and none are what we would now call obese. Its like a different species, the one that occupied this planet for thousands of years before fast food became ubiquitous. The change has been rapid and profound. Is it any wonder that our health services are overwhelmed by the consequences?
    I don't know about the fast food bit. My grandfather told a story of how in his mining village people would have tea/dinner at 6pm and then go for fish and chips at 10pm. A lot more physical labour back then!
    One of the surprising things in the early days of the pandemic was the difficulties the supermarkets faced with the shutdown in restaurants/takeaways, which meant the supermarkets had to increase their supply of food by something like a third to make up the difference. This indicates the large proportion of food that is eaten outside the home.
    Noticeably in the more deprived areas.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    @DeltapollUK
    12m
    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is seventeen points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 30% (+1)
    Lab 47% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-3)
    Other 13% (-2)
    Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd May 2023
    Sample: 1,575 GB adults
    (Changes from 12th - 15th May 2023)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Another begging letter from CCO.

    How tone-deaf are these muppets?

    I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my membership.

    Why don't they ask Truss, Boris, May, Cameron and all the others who are being paid fortunes for 'giving speeches' ?
    Just yesterday it was reported that party treasurer Mohamed Mansour had given £5 million.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Seems completely sane.


    You know you’ve hit rock bottom when you’re too much for Piers Morgan.
    One imagines there is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on teachers' private beliefs.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    @SophiaSleigh
    35s
    Letter from Sunak to Braverman just dropped. Conclusion is she made NO breach of the ministerial code:

    "I have consulted with my Independent Adviser. He has advised that on this occasion further investigation is not necessary and I have accepted that advice…
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    12m
    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is seventeen points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 30% (+1)
    Lab 47% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-3)
    Other 13% (-2)
    Fieldwork: 19th - 22nd May 2023
    Sample: 1,575 GB adults
    (Changes from 12th - 15th May 2023)

    SKS fans please explain.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    So Cruella is free to resign tomorrow over the immigration figures
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,620
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    On food and diet - I am comfortably overweight. Not grossly so, but definitely have "dad bod". Since puberty I have struggled to keep my weight under control, so having a load of fat is normal. I have had spells of being able to moderate this through exercise - twice in the last 10 years I have burned off the best part of 20kgs - and then out it back on again.

    I have noticed a marked change in my metabolism post-covid. This could be mid-40s malaise, but it timed in neatly with my mental health falling off the cliff summer 2020 and ending up on the happy pills.

    I decided to wean myself off the skag when I moved up here 2+ years ago. My mental health has (mostly) managed without the pills, but my metabolism is completely different to what it was.

    What I need to do is more exercise. And eat less. But food improves my mood when I am low, and with a heavy workload I really struggle to consistently get out into the fresh air and run / walk / cycle.

    I empathise on the weight front - similar story here.
    Me too. I have found that having a motivation works. I needed to get under 90kg for my Pitts Special flight and did it. Similarly I am doing the same for my next French cycle ride (although that is now in doubt and at least is really more complicated thanks to Brexit and the transporting of my bike issue, which I only found out about having organised 90% of it - sorry still can't stop ranting about this - Bastards!!).

    Having said that I find losing weight easy. I am a foodie and eat and drink huge amounts so cutting it out causes me to lose weight very fast.
    Rail, Ferry and rail, it will only add a few hours or so and add to the experience.
    Note that easy, although that might be what I do (you can also put your bike on a van at Folkestone and use the shuttle and it is cheap).

    For some odd reason TGVs don't take bikes from Calais so you have to take multiple TERs and change and you can't book bikes on a TER train so it first come first served. Previously it was train to London, Eurostar to Paris, cycle across Paris and TGV to the start point. I could do that in well under a day with little risk on missing the TGV booking (I have to book with a bike).

    Now it is impossible to get to the start location in a day. The TER trains adds huge amounts of time and the risk of missing the final TGV in Paris is huge with a ferry and two TER trains and I have to pre book the bike on the TGV.

    I have thought about changing the route to one I was planning for later in the year and taking the ferry from Portsmouth and going south from there. Again no go. All fast trains go to Paris anyway and TERs take an absolutely huge amount of time and need multiple changes.

    I have done this stuff umpteen time before using both Eurostar and ferries from Portsmouth (when cycling in Normandy or Brittany) so I know what I am doing.

    Yes I can do it, but the only safe way is to add a stop in Paris.

    In the grand scheme of things this is a minor Brexit problem and for the life of me I don't see why it is, as I can put my bike unboxed on a ferry, so why not a train. But really why have we made life so difficult for ourselves. This used to work brilliantly.

    Before Brexit I cycled to my local train station and was eating dinner in Bordeaux the same day. No chance now.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    It’s also such a recent thing. Look at photos of Brits and Yanks in the 70s and they are nearly all slim
    Now they are blobs

    It is also a growing global phenomenon. Continental kids are getting fatter, Thais are fatter, Arabs, Israelis, Aussies: everyone

    A now deceased friend of mine made a film about the return of the body of Robert F Kennedy from California to New York in 1968. The path of the train was lined with people showing their respects. A very large number of those doing so were black. Those on the train were moved by their attendance and took some films from the train which formed the base of the later film.

    What is astonishing, and really noteworthy, is that almost none of those by the tracks are overweight at all and none are what we would now call obese. Its like a different species, the one that occupied this planet for thousands of years before fast food became ubiquitous. The change has been rapid and profound. Is it any wonder that our health services are overwhelmed by the consequences?
    I don't know about the fast food bit. My grandfather told a story of how in his mining village people would have tea/dinner at 6pm and then go for fish and chips at 10pm. A lot more physical labour back then!
    One of the surprising things in the early days of the pandemic was the difficulties the supermarkets faced with the shutdown in restaurants/takeaways, which meant the supermarkets had to increase their supply of food by something like a third to make up the difference. This indicates the large proportion of food that is eaten outside the home.
    Noticeably in the more deprived areas.
    What's you definition of a deprived area? Round here house prices are cheap so there is a lot of spare cash to spend on things others would call luxuries.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Elon Musk says artificial intelligence isn't 'necessary for anything'

    Speaking via video link to a summit in London, Musk said he expects governments around the world to use AI to develop weapons before anything else."

    https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musk-says-artificial-intelligence-isnt-necessary-for-anything-12887975

    He's behind the curve: governments are already using AI/ChatGPT for cyber weapons, and - in particular - phishing.
    Have they noticed how bad ChatGPT is at gathering basic information? Maybe that isn't important for some reason.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,958

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    I'd argue the opposite: humans have *not* breastfed without too many problems for millennia. There's a survivor's bias - just look at the death rate for infants up until even recent decades. Many women might have found it difficult to breastfeed - perhaps one reason for wet nurses - but it just was not well-recorded.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    kjh said:

    Jeff Beck tribute concert last night at the Albert Hall was excellent. 10 of the best guitarist on show (plus Johnny Depp, but we don't think they plugged his guitar in because we never heard him actually play).

    We met a couple in the bar beforehand who had flown over from Florida just to see the concert, and the couple sitting next to me had flown over from Seattle just to see the concert. I was gobsmacked. When I asked why they said 'Legends that we may never see again'.

    Rod Stewart, Ronnie Wood and Eric Clapton played the last few songs. I am not a fan of Rod Stewart, but then he wasn't singing his stuff and what really came over was he is one hell of a showman really working the audience. He actually sat in the audience during one guitar solo.

    We had a great view, looking down on the stage from only a few metres away. Cost a bloody fortune.

    That sounds like the gig you’ll tell your grandchildren you attended. Awesome!
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,712

    Another begging letter from CCO.

    How tone-deaf are these muppets?

    I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my membership.

    Weren't they just given the largest donation ever (£5million) ?
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    edited May 2023
    Well, this is quite something:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/13ppv5c/podcast_interviewee_politician_is_threatening_to/

    I run a podcast that is minorly successful (5 figure listener count) and in a particular niche, and I managed to persuade a senior politician from one of the major UK political parties to be my guest for an episode, as I knew they were interested in this particular part of history...

    Things went well, and we had gotten around about 30 minutes in, when they said something that you really could consider career ending. An analytical endorsement of a terrible 20th century war crime, giving pros and cons to see the point of view of the perpetrators, then when asked if they would do the same, confirming so and justifying it, then making a joke about wishing they could do it today to a particular minority community...

    I had NO idea what to do with this really, and chose to sit on it for a week or so. During that week, I received a letter from a Barrister, telling me that the guest had considered their appearance to be detrimental and decided to withdraw their consent for their contribution to be made public, and if I were to do so now they have made me aware of this, they would pursue me personally in a civil claim for breach of confidence.


    My guesses would be
    1. Livingstone or Corbyn or someone like that, obviously
    2. Mark Francois saying he'd like to put cyclists in front of a firing squad
    3. Vince Cable
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other p
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    On food and diet - I am comfortably overweight. Not grossly so, but definitely have "dad bod". Since puberty I have struggled to keep my weight under control, so having a load of fat is normal. I have had spells of being able to moderate this through exercise - twice in the last 10 years I have burned off the best part of 20kgs - and then out it back on again.

    I have noticed a marked change in my metabolism post-covid. This could be mid-40s malaise, but it timed in neatly with my mental health falling off the cliff summer 2020 and ending up on the happy pills.

    I decided to wean myself off the skag when I moved up here 2+ years ago. My mental health has (mostly) managed without the pills, but my metabolism is completely different to what it was.

    What I need to do is more exercise. And eat less. But food improves my mood when I am low, and with a heavy workload I really struggle to consistently get out into the fresh air and run / walk / cycle.

    A recent brush with high blood pressure made me realise just how much salt is in processed food - and particularly food flavourings, which means even 'healthy' food you cook for yourself isn't necessarily do.
    Sadly, the miso paste has had to go in the bin.

    If you can deal with the utter boredom of eating it, tofu is something of a wonder food health wise.
    Zero salt and fat, high protein, next to no calories - and very filling.
    Even in quite apparently innocuous things like 'healthy' breakfast cereals. Interestingly(?) there is often a difference there between the branded and supermarkets' own and not in the way you might expect - e.g. All Bran is quite a bit higher salt than the 'high bran' or whatever own brand alternative. Perhaps because the supermarkets tend to embrace the traffic light nutrition symbols on the front (and so adjust to get the green colours) while the branded ones don't, so much.

    The other thing with salt is that tastes adjust. If you cut down, you find you become more sensitive to the taste and need less.
    Totally. We never put salt in the water when cooking veg and usually just steam them. When I eat at my parents its as if they have frosted everything with salt.

    I know cooking shows and top chefs will talk about seasoning a lot, and this is code for salt in the main. No doubt salt is great at bringing out flavour, but its got a lot of issues too.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566

    Another begging letter from CCO.

    How tone-deaf are these muppets?

    I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my membership.

    I'm getting emails from them all the time even though I'm not a member. (I was for a short time about a year ago because I guessed there would be a leadership contest and thought it would be interesting to take part in it).
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    kjh said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    On food and diet - I am comfortably overweight. Not grossly so, but definitely have "dad bod". Since puberty I have struggled to keep my weight under control, so having a load of fat is normal. I have had spells of being able to moderate this through exercise - twice in the last 10 years I have burned off the best part of 20kgs - and then out it back on again.

    I have noticed a marked change in my metabolism post-covid. This could be mid-40s malaise, but it timed in neatly with my mental health falling off the cliff summer 2020 and ending up on the happy pills.

    I decided to wean myself off the skag when I moved up here 2+ years ago. My mental health has (mostly) managed without the pills, but my metabolism is completely different to what it was.

    What I need to do is more exercise. And eat less. But food improves my mood when I am low, and with a heavy workload I really struggle to consistently get out into the fresh air and run / walk / cycle.

    I empathise on the weight front - similar story here.
    Me too. I have found that having a motivation works. I needed to get under 90kg for my Pitts Special flight and did it. Similarly I am doing the same for my next French cycle ride (although that is now in doubt and at least is really more complicated thanks to Brexit and the transporting of my bike issue, which I only found out about having organised 90% of it - sorry still can't stop ranting about this - Bastards!!).

    Having said that I find losing weight easy. I am a foodie and eat and drink huge amounts so cutting it out causes me to lose weight very fast.
    Rail, Ferry and rail, it will only add a few hours or so and add to the experience.
    Note that easy, although that might be what I do (you can also put your bike on a van at Folkestone and use the shuttle and it is cheap).

    For some odd reason TGVs don't take bikes from Calais so you have to take multiple TERs and change and you can't book bikes on a TER train so it first come first served. Previously it was train to London, Eurostar to Paris, cycle across Paris and TGV to the start point. I could do that in well under a day with little risk on missing the TGV booking (I have to book with a bike).

    Now it is impossible to get to the start location in a day. The TER trains adds huge amounts of time and the risk of missing the final TGV in Paris is huge with a ferry and two TER trains and I have to pre book the bike on the TGV.

    I have thought about changing the route to one I was planning for later in the year and taking the ferry from Portsmouth and going south from there. Again no go. All fast trains go to Paris anyway and TERs take an absolutely huge amount of time and need multiple changes.

    I have done this stuff umpteen time before using both Eurostar and ferries from Portsmouth (when cycling in Normandy or Brittany) so I know what I am doing.

    Yes I can do it, but the only safe way is to add a stop in Paris.

    In the grand scheme of things this is a minor Brexit problem and for the life of me I don't see why it is, as I can put my bike unboxed on a ferry, so why not a train. But really why have we made life so difficult for ourselves. This used to work brilliantly.

    Before Brexit I cycled to my local train station and was eating dinner in Bordeaux the same day. No chance now.
    I'm not a natural cyclist, but during lockdown found myself doing it as an outlet. Bike rides got longer and longer until I did the 40 miles from Thornaby to Newcastle. A massive massive buzz. And the come down off that turned out to be the tipping point in my mental health slide and I fell off the cliff in an experience I do not want to repeat ever.

    Still have the bike. Its probably beyond maintenance (now has 6 working gears) so a replacement is needed. Which frankly needs to have an electric booster for hills or I'm not going to bother)
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,195

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Mothers had a 1-in-10 chance of dying in childbirth in past centuries, so we can assume that there were a lot of babies who were being breastfed by women who weren't their mothers. To what extent this was happening with mothers who didn't die in childbirth is hard to tell. Often things that were very normal were not written about, and so we don't have any evidence either way, but there might have been quite a lot of breastfeeding difficulty in the past too, but the remedy was different.
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,712

    WHAT???. Both of them?

    BREAKING

    Boris Johnson allies up the ante and warn they will obstruct Rishi Sunak’s government unless he intervened to stop what they see as a ‘witch hunt’

    They say it’s the ‘final straw’ for Johnson and warn that MPs and members supportive of former PM will begin organising


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1661267658396794880

    Impotent bluster.

    Johnson, your time has long been up.
    This guy reckons that Boris will resign, then reappear in Henley - and get beaten by the LibDems in the GE!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iR509pnMXQ
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I have a similar story with my sister-in-law (from before ours were born, so we certainly weren't committed either way). She tried really hard, was in a lot of pain and first baby at least lost a fair bit of weight. Our commuity midwife was actually very good, in the pregnancy she set out all the evidence on breastfeeding but also said that it simply doesn't work for everyone, we should try it but not stress about it and made the point that you need to (a) feed a baby and (b) look after yourself, which are not always both compatible with breastfeeding.

    After the birth of number one (labour was ~24 hours) he was pretty tired and not fussed about feeding. Took 18 hours for first decent feed, although we managed to express a little before then. The midwives there were also generally very good, one in particular spent a lot of time with us and reduced our stress levels, said we had time to keep trying but they'd get formula if we got to that point (and they'd tell us when) so not to worry. Two and three were easy - it partly helps that if you've done it once then you know it can work for you and you have more confidence, I guess.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,620
    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    viewcode said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    There's nothing middle class about breastfeeding, it is simply providing your young with the correct nutrition in the same way that all other mammals have evolved to do. Breastfeeding exclusively for the first six months is so rare in this country that it's fairly safe to assume that most people aren't doing it.
    It is the competitive absolutism, rather than the breastfeeding itself, that is middle class.

    In particular in my anecdotes, the unhealthy competitiveness of going way beyond 6 months.
    There is such a weird discourse on breastfeeding. Evolution/God has provided an ideal, cheap, nutritious and safe food source for nurturing and growing our young from birth until they are weaned, for humans as for other mammals. It is also an activity with proven health benefits for the mother and psychological benefits for mother and child alike. It shouldn't be difficult for the vast majority of people. And yet most mothers in this country give it up because they find it too hard, or society creates too many barriers, or they think it is weird or middle class. And people complain about seeing it in public - wtf? I put it down in an increasingly long list of things about modern society that just seem mad and toxic to me.
    It is also physically painful for many women who, when faced with a small screaming lump of flesh that screams incessantly and produces nauseating poo of quite a strange colour and consistency at inconvenient intervals that demands to interact in an oddly painful - ouch, ouch! - manner, and social workers who talk like three year olds and mention things like lettuce leaves as if that's sane, just decide to f*** this s*** and stick premixed bottles in the fridge in order to get some goshdarned sleep.

    My experience of life is not as wide as it should be, but I think the first rule of parenting is that do the best you can and if at 18 months they are still alive, not diseased or malnourished, at the proper weight and height and unscarred, then they're probably OK.
    Maybe we've been lucky but almost all the healthcare people we've interacted have been great. No judgement of formula vs breast - just good that he's eating and thriving. My wife has had a fair number of issues with breast feeding and definitely isn't keeping up with his needs, so some formula is needed too. Its also making her more tired - she is waking up/being woken up by the need to express milk in the night, whereas the boy and me are able to sleep through (lucky for me and him - he's just on 4 months).

    The only outcome that matters is keeping the little one alive and healthy - you are totally right on this!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    Another begging letter from CCO.

    How tone-deaf are these muppets?

    I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my membership.

    I think you should. Resign and don't rejoin until they change and become something you are proud rather than ashamed to be a member of.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    Public telling off for Braverman

    'a better course of action could have been taken'

    DON'T USE THE CIVIL SERVICE FOR YOUR PERSONAL STUFF AGAIN SUELLA.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    edited May 2023
    .. Vanilla strikes again...
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    kjh said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    On food and diet - I am comfortably overweight. Not grossly so, but definitely have "dad bod". Since puberty I have struggled to keep my weight under control, so having a load of fat is normal. I have had spells of being able to moderate this through exercise - twice in the last 10 years I have burned off the best part of 20kgs - and then out it back on again.

    I have noticed a marked change in my metabolism post-covid. This could be mid-40s malaise, but it timed in neatly with my mental health falling off the cliff summer 2020 and ending up on the happy pills.

    I decided to wean myself off the skag when I moved up here 2+ years ago. My mental health has (mostly) managed without the pills, but my metabolism is completely different to what it was.

    What I need to do is more exercise. And eat less. But food improves my mood when I am low, and with a heavy workload I really struggle to consistently get out into the fresh air and run / walk / cycle.

    I empathise on the weight front - similar story here.
    Me too. I have found that having a motivation works. I needed to get under 90kg for my Pitts Special flight and did it. Similarly I am doing the same for my next French cycle ride (although that is now in doubt and at least is really more complicated thanks to Brexit and the transporting of my bike issue, which I only found out about having organised 90% of it - sorry still can't stop ranting about this - Bastards!!).

    Having said that I find losing weight easy. I am a foodie and eat and drink huge amounts so cutting it out causes me to lose weight very fast.
    Rail, Ferry and rail, it will only add a few hours or so and add to the experience.
    Note that easy, although that might be what I do (you can also put your bike on a van at Folkestone and use the shuttle and it is cheap).

    For some odd reason TGVs don't take bikes from Calais so you have to take multiple TERs and change and you can't book bikes on a TER train so it first come first served. Previously it was train to London, Eurostar to Paris, cycle across Paris and TGV to the start point. I could do that in well under a day with little risk on missing the TGV booking (I have to book with a bike).

    Now it is impossible to get to the start location in a day. The TER trains adds huge amounts of time and the risk of missing the final TGV in Paris is huge with a ferry and two TER trains and I have to pre book the bike on the TGV.

    I have thought about changing the route to one I was planning for later in the year and taking the ferry from Portsmouth and going south from there. Again no go. All fast trains go to Paris anyway and TERs take an absolutely huge amount of time and need multiple changes.

    I have done this stuff umpteen time before using both Eurostar and ferries from Portsmouth (when cycling in Normandy or Brittany) so I know what I am doing.

    Yes I can do it, but the only safe way is to add a stop in Paris.

    In the grand scheme of things this is a minor Brexit problem and for the life of me I don't see why it is, as I can put my bike unboxed on a ferry, so why not a train. But really why have we made life so difficult for ourselves. This used to work brilliantly.

    Before Brexit I cycled to my local train station and was eating dinner in Bordeaux the same day. No chance now.
    Not that I need to encourage any cyclist to succumb to n+1, but my solution for cycling in France is to have a really good folding bike. In my case that's a Bike Friday New World Tourist, but the Airnimal range are superb as well. It packs up small enough to go in the Eurostar luggage racks or on a TGV, and 60-mile days are very doable. I did the River Seine cycle route with it last autumn and loved it.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431
    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    Can you ask the auctioneer to pass on your details to the seller, if it's a data protection thing? Although I guess it's also a auctioneer's commission thing, too?

    If you have the 11-digit number from the vehicle’s log book (V5C) then you can see where the last MOT was online and could then maybe try the garage if it's a local one/specialist one that might know the customer - or may be that the MOTer is a dealer selling it?. But if you'd seen the log book then you'd have the owner's details.

    I guess you've tried googling the registration/other details, just in case?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    I'd argue the opposite: humans have *not* breastfed without too many problems for millennia. There's a survivor's bias - just look at the death rate for infants up until even recent decades. Many women might have found it difficult to breastfeed - perhaps one reason for wet nurses - but it just was not well-recorded.
    I'm not sure that's true. We know from societies and communities where breastfeeding is the norm and is supported and alternatives are not readily available that most women breastfeed with few problems in that environment. Something has gone wrong in our society to make it suddenly difficult. This is in no way an indictment of individual mothers.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    That begging letter in full:
    ---

    Dear John,

    During my time as CEO, I know our party has sent multiple requests for your help.

    So I wanted to send you a personal note, thanking you for all the support you’ve given to our party.

    Over the last twelve months, we’ve delivered more than two million leaflets, paid for several thousand social media ads, hired 40 new Campaign Managers, and won hundreds of campaigns.
    All of it was made possible by your generous contributions.

    People often forget that political parties are utterly reliant on supporters like you. But it’s the undeniable truth.

    You fund our campaigns. You fund our deliveries. You fund our advertising. You fund our research.
    People from all backgrounds and walks of life have come together with us because they believe in a shared vision of what Britain’s future should be.

    And every single penny you donate makes that vision possible.

    The Prime Minister and his team are getting on with the job of halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats.

    And together we’re focused on Britain’s future: investing in the tech that will power our economy, recruiting the police officers who will keep us safe, hiring the doctors and nurses who will help our NHS thrive.

    It’s a huge undertaking, and it wouldn’t get off the ground without people like you.

    So thank you, again, for all your support. I hope we can count on it as we approach the next general election.

    Yours sincerely,
    Stephen

    ---
    Please do dig deep and give generously. You WILL feel better.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,620

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    On food and diet - I am comfortably overweight. Not grossly so, but definitely have "dad bod". Since puberty I have struggled to keep my weight under control, so having a load of fat is normal. I have had spells of being able to moderate this through exercise - twice in the last 10 years I have burned off the best part of 20kgs - and then out it back on again.

    I have noticed a marked change in my metabolism post-covid. This could be mid-40s malaise, but it timed in neatly with my mental health falling off the cliff summer 2020 and ending up on the happy pills.

    I decided to wean myself off the skag when I moved up here 2+ years ago. My mental health has (mostly) managed without the pills, but my metabolism is completely different to what it was.

    What I need to do is more exercise. And eat less. But food improves my mood when I am low, and with a heavy workload I really struggle to consistently get out into the fresh air and run / walk / cycle.

    I empathise on the weight front - similar story here.
    Me too. I have found that having a motivation works. I needed to get under 90kg for my Pitts Special flight and did it. Similarly I am doing the same for my next French cycle ride (although that is now in doubt and at least is really more complicated thanks to Brexit and the transporting of my bike issue, which I only found out about having organised 90% of it - sorry still can't stop ranting about this - Bastards!!).

    Having said that I find losing weight easy. I am a foodie and eat and drink huge amounts so cutting it out causes me to lose weight very fast.
    Rail, Ferry and rail, it will only add a few hours or so and add to the experience.
    Note that easy, although that might be what I do (you can also put your bike on a van at Folkestone and use the shuttle and it is cheap).

    For some odd reason TGVs don't take bikes from Calais so you have to take multiple TERs and change and you can't book bikes on a TER train so it first come first served. Previously it was train to London, Eurostar to Paris, cycle across Paris and TGV to the start point. I could do that in well under a day with little risk on missing the TGV booking (I have to book with a bike).

    Now it is impossible to get to the start location in a day. The TER trains adds huge amounts of time and the risk of missing the final TGV in Paris is huge with a ferry and two TER trains and I have to pre book the bike on the TGV.

    I have thought about changing the route to one I was planning for later in the year and taking the ferry from Portsmouth and going south from there. Again no go. All fast trains go to Paris anyway and TERs take an absolutely huge amount of time and need multiple changes.

    I have done this stuff umpteen time before using both Eurostar and ferries from Portsmouth (when cycling in Normandy or Brittany) so I know what I am doing.

    Yes I can do it, but the only safe way is to add a stop in Paris.

    In the grand scheme of things this is a minor Brexit problem and for the life of me I don't see why it is, as I can put my bike unboxed on a ferry, so why not a train. But really why have we made life so difficult for ourselves. This used to work brilliantly.

    Before Brexit I cycled to my local train station and was eating dinner in Bordeaux the same day. No chance now.
    I'm not a natural cyclist, but during lockdown found myself doing it as an outlet. Bike rides got longer and longer until I did the 40 miles from Thornaby to Newcastle. A massive massive buzz. And the come down off that turned out to be the tipping point in my mental health slide and I fell off the cliff in an experience I do not want to repeat ever.

    Still have the bike. Its probably beyond maintenance (now has 6 working gears) so a replacement is needed. Which frankly needs to have an electric booster for hills or I'm not going to bother)
    Sorry to hear about your mental health issues.

    Just for the record I don't do hills. At 90kg and carrying all my stuff I look for flat routes. I don't do proper prep either. Just do it. I haven't been on a bike for months and need to before I go. Not a posh bike (although decent) or lycra either.

    The best part of each day is the enjoyment of the beer, wine and food in the evening.
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Mothers had a 1-in-10 chance of dying in childbirth in past centuries, so we can assume that there were a lot of babies who were being breastfed by women who weren't their mothers. To what extent this was happening with mothers who didn't die in childbirth is hard to tell. Often things that were very normal were not written about, and so we don't have any evidence either way, but there might have been quite a lot of breastfeeding difficulty in the past too, but the remedy was different.
    Infant mortality used to be well over 3 in 10 too.

    The alternative to formula in the past wasn't breast, it was a wet nurse where it was possible and death where it was not.

    Mothers who need to formula feed their kids aren't doing anything "wrong" and should not be looked at judgmentally or scorned.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964

    WHAT???. Both of them?

    BREAKING

    Boris Johnson allies up the ante and warn they will obstruct Rishi Sunak’s government unless he intervened to stop what they see as a ‘witch hunt’

    They say it’s the ‘final straw’ for Johnson and warn that MPs and members supportive of former PM will begin organising


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1661267658396794880

    Impotent bluster.

    Johnson, your time has long been up.
    This guy reckons that Boris will resign, then reappear in Henley - and get beaten by the LibDems in the GE!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iR509pnMXQ
    That was my argument / question yesterday and it's likely to occur because no matter where Bozo decides to stand the other parties will do everything to ensure he loses. And it will probably be easy because, I suspect, a fair number of Tory voters will sit out the vote.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,065
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    It’s also such a recent thing. Look at photos of Brits and Yanks in the 70s and they are nearly all slim
    Now they are blobs

    It is also a growing global phenomenon. Continental kids are getting fatter, Thais are fatter, Arabs, Israelis, Aussies: everyone

    A now deceased friend of mine made a film about the return of the body of Robert F Kennedy from California to New York in 1968. The path of the train was lined with people showing their respects. A very large number of those doing so were black. Those on the train were moved by their attendance and took some films from the train which formed the base of the later film.

    What is astonishing, and really noteworthy, is that almost none of those by the tracks are overweight at all and none are what we would now call obese. Its like a different species, the one that occupied this planet for thousands of years before fast food became ubiquitous. The change has been rapid and profound. Is it any wonder that our health services are overwhelmed by the consequences?
    I don't know about the fast food bit. My grandfather told a story of how in his mining village people would have tea/dinner at 6pm and then go for fish and chips at 10pm. A lot more physical labour back then!
    One of the surprising things in the early days of the pandemic was the difficulties the supermarkets faced with the shutdown in restaurants/takeaways, which meant the supermarkets had to increase their supply of food by something like a third to make up the difference. This indicates the large proportion of food that is eaten outside the home.
    Noticeably in the more deprived areas.
    What's you definition of a deprived area? Round here house prices are cheap so there is a lot of spare cash to spend on things others would call luxuries.
    Deprived areas such as Blackpool and parts of Manchester and Liverpool have five times more fast food outlets than affluent areas, a survey suggests.

    The data, from Public Health England (PHE), compared levels of deprivation with numbers of takeaways such as chip shops, burger bars and pizza places.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44642027

    Almost half of the fast-food outlets in England are in the most deprived parts of the country, figures show, raising fresh concerns about child obesity in poorer areas.

    The most affluent 10% of England is home to just 3% of fast-food restaurants, chip shops and burger bars, and the poorest decile has 17%, according to the data from Public Health England (PHE).


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/29/poorer-areas-of-england-have-more-fast-food-shops-figures-show

    And within individual areas there always seems to be many more grotty takeaways in the poorer areas than the richer ones.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,958

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    I'd argue the opposite: humans have *not* breastfed without too many problems for millennia. There's a survivor's bias - just look at the death rate for infants up until even recent decades. Many women might have found it difficult to breastfeed - perhaps one reason for wet nurses - but it just was not well-recorded.
    I'm not sure that's true. We know from societies and communities where breastfeeding is the norm and is supported and alternatives are not readily available that most women breastfeed with few problems in that environment. Something has gone wrong in our society to make it suddenly difficult. This is in no way an indictment of individual mothers.
    "We know from societies and communities where breastfeeding is the norm and is supported and alternatives are not readily available that most women breastfeed with few problems in that environment."

    As a matter of interest, do we know that? What evidence are you using?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Mothers had a 1-in-10 chance of dying in childbirth in past centuries, so we can assume that there were a lot of babies who were being breastfed by women who weren't their mothers. To what extent this was happening with mothers who didn't die in childbirth is hard to tell. Often things that were very normal were not written about, and so we don't have any evidence either way, but there might have been quite a lot of breastfeeding difficulty in the past too, but the remedy was different.
    Our daughter never properly latched. I genuinely think most formula fed babies (As ours was) aren't particularly out of choice, ours certainly wasn't. She's now mostly food though being 13 months and all. I'll be glad when she's off the formula with her regular formula being lactose free from birth), £9.25 for 400g.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,620
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    Can you ask the auctioneer to pass on your details to the seller, if it's a data protection thing? Although I guess it's also a auctioneer's commission thing, too?

    If you have the 11-digit number from the vehicle’s log book (V5C) then you can see where the last MOT was online and could then maybe try the garage if it's a local one/specialist one that might know the customer - or may be that the MOTer is a dealer selling it?. But if you'd seen the log book then you'd have the owner's details.

    I guess you've tried googling the registration/other details, just in case?
    Cheers. Yes googled like mad. I did assume it was a commission thing. Car doesn't need an MOT (I always find it mind boggling that an ancient car doesn't).
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Mothers had a 1-in-10 chance of dying in childbirth in past centuries, so we can assume that there were a lot of babies who were being breastfed by women who weren't their mothers. To what extent this was happening with mothers who didn't die in childbirth is hard to tell. Often things that were very normal were not written about, and so we don't have any evidence either way, but there might have been quite a lot of breastfeeding difficulty in the past too, but the remedy was different.
    Infant mortality used to be well over 3 in 10 too.

    The alternative to formula in the past wasn't breast, it was a wet nurse where it was possible and death where it was not.

    Mothers who need to formula feed their kids aren't doing anything "wrong" and should not be looked at judgmentally or scorned.
    Nobody is talking about shaming people. But breastfeeding is absolutely and unambiguously the best option for the child where it is possible and people shouldn't be not told that because it makes them feel uncomfortable.
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    Take out the driveshaft and/or axles of the car that's blocking it in, push it out of the way, drive off in your new Panther and make an urgent appointment with a mental health professional.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Pulpstar said:

    Public telling off for Braverman

    'a better course of action could have been taken'

    Yes, appointing someone less useless as Home Secretary.
    An option still open to the PM.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137

    WHAT???. Both of them?

    BREAKING

    Boris Johnson allies up the ante and warn they will obstruct Rishi Sunak’s government unless he intervened to stop what they see as a ‘witch hunt’

    They say it’s the ‘final straw’ for Johnson and warn that MPs and members supportive of former PM will begin organising


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1661267658396794880

    Nadine and...? JRM? Johnson himself?
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,301
    edited May 2023
    I see that the posh Right are now back to slagging off the British working class on this thread as fat sugar-guzzling lard arses, now that their usefulness in voting for Brexit is out of the way.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    JohnO said:

    That begging letter in full:
    ---

    Dear John,

    During my time as CEO, I know our party has sent multiple requests for your help.

    So I wanted to send you a personal note, thanking you for all the support you’ve given to our party.

    Over the last twelve months, we’ve delivered more than two million leaflets, paid for several thousand social media ads, hired 40 new Campaign Managers, and won hundreds of campaigns.
    All of it was made possible by your generous contributions.

    People often forget that political parties are utterly reliant on supporters like you. But it’s the undeniable truth.

    You fund our campaigns. You fund our deliveries. You fund our advertising. You fund our research.
    People from all backgrounds and walks of life have come together with us because they believe in a shared vision of what Britain’s future should be.

    And every single penny you donate makes that vision possible.

    The Prime Minister and his team are getting on with the job of halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats.

    And together we’re focused on Britain’s future: investing in the tech that will power our economy, recruiting the police officers who will keep us safe, hiring the doctors and nurses who will help our NHS thrive.

    It’s a huge undertaking, and it wouldn’t get off the ground without people like you.

    So thank you, again, for all your support. I hope we can count on it as we approach the next general election.

    Yours sincerely,
    Stephen

    ---
    Please do dig deep and give generously. You WILL feel better.

    Can you share this 'shared vision' with us ?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    JohnO said:


    The Prime Minister and his team are getting on with the job of halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats.

    Cheeky fucking bastards. Give us loads of money so we can fail at fixing the problems we created.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964
    DougSeal said:

    WHAT???. Both of them?

    BREAKING

    Boris Johnson allies up the ante and warn they will obstruct Rishi Sunak’s government unless he intervened to stop what they see as a ‘witch hunt’

    They say it’s the ‘final straw’ for Johnson and warn that MPs and members supportive of former PM will begin organising


    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1661267658396794880

    Nadine and...? JRM? Johnson himself?
    That would require Bozo attending Parliament and not being on holiday.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Dura_Ace said:

    JohnO said:


    The Prime Minister and his team are getting on with the job of halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats.

    Cheeky fucking bastards. Give us loads of money so we can fail at fixing the problems we created.
    Bit bloody sinister, too.
    ...You WILL feel better.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    JohnO said:

    That begging letter in full:
    ---

    Dear John,

    During my time as CEO, I know our party has sent multiple requests for your help.

    So I wanted to send you a personal note, thanking you for all the support you’ve given to our party.

    Over the last twelve months, we’ve delivered more than two million leaflets, paid for several thousand social media ads, hired 40 new Campaign Managers, and won hundreds of campaigns.
    All of it was made possible by your generous contributions.

    People often forget that political parties are utterly reliant on supporters like you. But it’s the undeniable truth.

    You fund our campaigns. You fund our deliveries. You fund our advertising. You fund our research.
    People from all backgrounds and walks of life have come together with us because they believe in a shared vision of what Britain’s future should be.

    And every single penny you donate makes that vision possible.

    The Prime Minister and his team are getting on with the job of halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting waiting lists and stopping the boats.

    And together we’re focused on Britain’s future: investing in the tech that will power our economy, recruiting the police officers who will keep us safe, hiring the doctors and nurses who will help our NHS thrive.

    It’s a huge undertaking, and it wouldn’t get off the ground without people like you.

    So thank you, again, for all your support. I hope we can count on it as we approach the next general election.

    Yours sincerely,
    Stephen

    ---
    Please do dig deep and give generously. You WILL feel better.

    This is delusional!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,807

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    I'd argue the opposite: humans have *not* breastfed without too many problems for millennia. There's a survivor's bias - just look at the death rate for infants up until even recent decades. Many women might have found it difficult to breastfeed - perhaps one reason for wet nurses - but it just was not well-recorded.
    I'm not sure that's true. We know from societies and communities where breastfeeding is the norm and is supported and alternatives are not readily available that most women breastfeed with few problems in that environment. Something has gone wrong in our society to make it suddenly difficult. This is in no way an indictment of individual mothers.
    "We know from societies and communities where breastfeeding is the norm and is supported and alternatives are not readily available that most women breastfeed with few problems in that environment."

    As a matter of interest, do we know that? What evidence are you using?
    I think factors that need to be looked at in historic and less industrialised societies are:

    - Infant mortality due to breastfeeding failing
    - The prevalence of community wet nursing (and were wet nurses historically thought thin??)
    - Health implications to mothers of breastfeeding with, for example, mastitis.

    The use of formula is recommended for some in industrial societies, as an alternative to some of these other things, and has also become a choice for others.

    And though Surbiton is not sub-saharan, but even in developing countries there is a positive role for the availability of formula in a well regulated way.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964
    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    Donors are pragmatic. If you want the ear of the government for the next few years, its not Blue, its Red.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Like I said, I am not criticising individual choices. I was lucky that my wife had no problems breastfeeding our three children and they were all exclusively breastfed to 6 months in line with WTO guidelines, and I certainly don't judge people (like my own mother) who for whatever reason can't breastfeed a child. I'm not saying breastfeed or let the child die FFS. My point is that something has gone wrong for us as a society that our rates of breastfeeding our so low, since we know that breastfeeding is unambiguously the best option for mother and child alike where it works. Other societies have far higher rates of breastfeeding than we do, in fact we are perhaps the worst in the world at it. I think that is a problem. See for instance: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35438049.amp
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Chip war: Apple strikes major US-made semiconductor deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65692276
    Apple says it has struck a multi-billion dollar deal with chipmaker Broadcom to use more US-made parts.
    Under the multi-year agreement, the two US companies will develop components for 5G devices that will be designed and manufactured in America.
    Apple says the deal is part of a plan it announced in 2021 to invest $430bn (£346bn) in the US economy...


    Broadcom, of course, doesn't actually make its own chips.
    New Intel plant in Colorado ?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,732
    Scott_xP said:

    @SophiaSleigh
    35s
    Letter from Sunak to Braverman just dropped. Conclusion is she made NO breach of the ministerial code:

    "I have consulted with my Independent Adviser. He has advised that on this occasion further investigation is not necessary and I have accepted that advice…

    I like the use of this occassion to demonstrate that there have been several issues in the past and are likely to be more in the future.....
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    Oh dear oh dear:
    The stench of failure permeating the party and government
    The open corruption where donors expect a return on investment
    The utter failure to deliver the policies they want
    The large risk that your donation will be wasted

    So the money has dried up. I have an idea for the Tories - state funding for political parties to break the corruption cycle...
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,092

    viewcode said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    There's nothing middle class about breastfeeding, it is simply providing your young with the correct nutrition in the same way that all other mammals have evolved to do. Breastfeeding exclusively for the first six months is so rare in this country that it's fairly safe to assume that most people aren't doing it.
    It is the competitive absolutism, rather than the breastfeeding itself, that is middle class.

    In particular in my anecdotes, the unhealthy competitiveness of going way beyond 6 months.
    There is such a weird discourse on breastfeeding. Evolution/God has provided an ideal, cheap, nutritious and safe food source for nurturing and growing our young from birth until they are weaned, for humans as for other mammals. It is also an activity with proven health benefits for the mother and psychological benefits for mother and child alike. It shouldn't be difficult for the vast majority of people. And yet most mothers in this country give it up because they find it too hard, or society creates too many barriers, or they think it is weird or middle class. And people complain about seeing it in public - wtf? I put it down in an increasingly long list of things about modern society that just seem mad and toxic to me.
    It is also physically painful for many women who, when faced with a small screaming lump of flesh that screams incessantly and produces nauseating poo of quite a strange colour and consistency at inconvenient intervals that demands to interact in an oddly painful - ouch, ouch! - manner, and social workers who talk like three year olds and mention things like lettuce leaves as if that's sane, just decide to f*** this s*** and stick premixed bottles in the fridge in order to get some goshdarned sleep.

    My experience of life is not as wide as it should be, but I think the first rule of parenting is that do the best you can and if at 18 months they are still alive, not diseased or malnourished, at the proper weight and height and unscarred, then they're probably OK.
    Maybe we've been lucky but almost all the healthcare people we've interacted have been great. No judgement of formula vs breast - just good that he's eating and thriving. My wife has had a fair number of issues with breast feeding and definitely isn't keeping up with his needs, so some formula is needed too. Its also making her more tired - she is waking up/being woken up by the need to express milk in the night, whereas the boy and me are able to sleep through (lucky for me and him - he's just on 4 months).

    The only outcome that matters is keeping the little one alive and healthy - you are totally right on this!
    That is the most important outcome but it is not the only one that matters. When we had our first, one of the women from our antenatal class used to always strap her baby into a baby seat as she found it easier to keep him in one place while she got the chores done. Meanwhile the rest of us used to give the babies several hours of tummy time each day, putting toys just out of reach etc. Surprise, surprise, the baby in question had developmental delays while the rest were all crawling.

    Good parenting matters from a young age. There is a reason why educational outcome diffrrences are apparent between richer kids and poorer kids happen as young as 3-4.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,958
    Nigelb said:

    Chip war: Apple strikes major US-made semiconductor deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65692276
    Apple says it has struck a multi-billion dollar deal with chipmaker Broadcom to use more US-made parts.
    Under the multi-year agreement, the two US companies will develop components for 5G devices that will be designed and manufactured in America.
    Apple says the deal is part of a plan it announced in 2021 to invest $430bn (£346bn) in the US economy...


    Broadcom, of course, doesn't actually make its own chips.
    New Intel plant in Colorado ?

    They say 'components' for '5G devices'. I'm guessing this will be support and ancillary chips (*), rather than the main processors. Intel *could* do it, but I'd bet on Samsung or TSMC having a new US plant.

    (*) Though the numbers of those are reducing, just as chiplets start...
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    edited May 2023

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    BIB - anecdotally this is not always the case. As I said, we've had great healthcare interactions, so although we have been using a mix of both breast and formula, the only response has been positive that he is eating well and gaining weight well. But that is not always the reaction.

  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    Oh dear oh dear:
    The stench of failure permeating the party and government
    The open corruption where donors expect a return on investment
    The utter failure to deliver the policies they want
    The large risk that your donation will be wasted

    So the money has dried up. I have an idea for the Tories - state funding for political parties to break the corruption cycle...
    Come on - donors ALWAYS want something in return for their investment...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Nigelb said:

    Chip war: Apple strikes major US-made semiconductor deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65692276
    Apple says it has struck a multi-billion dollar deal with chipmaker Broadcom to use more US-made parts.
    Under the multi-year agreement, the two US companies will develop components for 5G devices that will be designed and manufactured in America.
    Apple says the deal is part of a plan it announced in 2021 to invest $430bn (£346bn) in the US economy...


    Broadcom, of course, doesn't actually make its own chips.
    New Intel plant in Colorado ?

    Apparently not - it's for FBAR filters and the like.
  • Options
    Apologies for swearing before, I lost my temper as this is a sensitive subject for me. Sorry about that.

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Like I said, I am not criticising individual choices. I was lucky that my wife had no problems breastfeeding our three children and they were all exclusively breastfed to 6 months in line with WTO guidelines, and I certainly don't judge people (like my own mother) who for whatever reason can't breastfeed a child. I'm not saying breastfeed or let the child die FFS. My point is that something has gone wrong for us as a society that our rates of breastfeeding our so low, since we know that breastfeeding is unambiguously the best option for mother and child alike where it works. Other societies have far higher rates of breastfeeding than we do, in fact we are perhaps the worst in the world at it. I think that is a problem. See for instance: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35438049.amp
    Sorry but you absolutely did come across as criticising individual choices, and our experience with the NHS as I said absolutely was criticising. Even though we'd been advised by the doctor in the hospital to switch to formula, we were still at each and every checkup afterwards until about six months given a lecture that breast is best.

    Yes, breast is best, I've said that all along, but starvation is worse.

    As for your link, it doesn't say what you're saying. As you say WTO guidelines is about until 6 months and 84% of UK mothers attempt that, that's not bad. The 'worst' being quoted is at more than 12 months.

    Expectant mothers absolutely should be advised that breast is best. But it would also be good to advise about the difficulties they might face and alternatives should it be proven necessary, but none of that was discussed with us.

    Even if you don't want to discuss alternatives in advance, after birth post-partum is difficult at the best of times and when people have struggled and have no alternative to feed their child that should be handled with far more sensitivity than relentlessly and ignorantly drumming home 'breast is best' again and again even after breast has been tried and failed.

    Yes most mothers can breastfeed. And in the UK most mothers do for newborns. But if you're in the minority who can't, then that should be handled sensitively. There is nothing wrong with being in a minority - and the alternative for that minority in the past was death.

    33% of infants died in infancy in previous centuries, the fact that most have no problems doesn't help when you're not in that majority.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,092

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    Also a lot of the time poor latching or pain breastfeeding happens because of tongue ties, and it doesn't get caught enough by most doctors. Our main doctor in London said our eldest daughter didn't have a tongue tie and we should probably switch to bottles. We did our research and went to an independent lactation consultant who did it for us. Our baby latched a day later.

    Of course, if you have no other option you should use formula. But we have as a society got to a place where people put fear about giving guilt to people above recommending the right thing. The same thing happens with obesity. We need to refocus on responsibility and emotional resiliency.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,732
    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    Perhaps they are less willing to take the millions on offer from ex Putin cronies than normal at the moment.....
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Nigelb said:

    Chip war: Apple strikes major US-made semiconductor deal
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65692276
    Apple says it has struck a multi-billion dollar deal with chipmaker Broadcom to use more US-made parts.
    Under the multi-year agreement, the two US companies will develop components for 5G devices that will be designed and manufactured in America.
    Apple says the deal is part of a plan it announced in 2021 to invest $430bn (£346bn) in the US economy...


    Broadcom, of course, doesn't actually make its own chips.
    New Intel plant in Colorado ?

    They say 'components' for '5G devices'. I'm guessing this will be support and ancillary chips (*), rather than the main processors. Intel *could* do it, but I'd bet on Samsung or TSMC having a new US plant.

    (*) Though the numbers of those are reducing, just as chiplets start...
    Yes, it's for the bits and pieces - Broadcom make those in Colorado..
    (Intel is the only one planning a new processor fab in Colorado, though.)
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,807
    edited May 2023
    Rochdale Pioneers said:

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.



    You would hope that nobody is going to do that, but the experience of many on here is otherwise, I'm afraid. My wife, a qualified woman, has been reduced to tears by wrong headed health workers: we have asked them to leave on one occasion and not invited them back. It's not uncommon.

    It would be easy to dismiss Bartholomew as a libertarian radical were he taking a lone stance on this, but I hope I've shown I'm not averse to regulation to help people that might be considered nannying. But in general state agencies tend to coercion where such things exist (in the job centre, midwives etc.) rather than encouragement.

    I'd love public services to re-find that balance for the modern age. I recall as thread header on what should be in the LD manifesto and such a reset was suggested.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,404
    This was a gripping and excellent @Cyclefree thread. The anger is justified - as ever, I would encourage the addition of a pithy list of recommended actions at the end of the thread (I do appreciate that the reader could research the recommendations Cyclefree alludes to if they wanted. Should we have a Minister for Children? Would they have a department and budget or try to coordinate and enforce other departments to work in a child-friendly way?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    WillG said:

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    Also a lot of the time poor latching or pain breastfeeding happens because of tongue ties, and it doesn't get caught enough by most doctors. Our main doctor in London said our eldest daughter didn't have a tongue tie and we should probably switch to bottles. We did our research and went to an independent lactation consultant who did it for us. Our baby latched a day later.

    Of course, if you have no other option you should use formula. But we have as a society got to a place where people put fear about giving guilt to people above recommending the right thing. The same thing happens with obesity. We need to refocus on responsibility and emotional resiliency.
    Our son had a tongue tie for the first three months. When cut, breast feeding was almost instantly better. Something new parents need to be on the look out for.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,195

    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    Donors are pragmatic. If you want the ear of the government for the next few years, its not Blue, its Red.
    I think it's part of the British character to celebrate tales of heroic last stands, but nobody wants to be part of one, even if only in a financial way.

    The Tories will find out easier to raise donations if they can convince people they have a chance of winning.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,952
    Pretty awful inflation numbers again.

    FFS.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    If you have the registration, a friendly car dealer or MoT centre should be able to look up the details.

    That excuse does sound a little dodgy though. It’s not difficult to move a seized car out of the way, if it’s stopping you from getting another car to an auction.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Apologies for swearing before, I lost my temper as this is a sensitive subject for me. Sorry about that.

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Like I said, I am not criticising individual choices. I was lucky that my wife had no problems breastfeeding our three children and they were all exclusively breastfed to 6 months in line with WTO guidelines, and I certainly don't judge people (like my own mother) who for whatever reason can't breastfeed a child. I'm not saying breastfeed or let the child die FFS. My point is that something has gone wrong for us as a society that our rates of breastfeeding our so low, since we know that breastfeeding is unambiguously the best option for mother and child alike where it works. Other societies have far higher rates of breastfeeding than we do, in fact we are perhaps the worst in the world at it. I think that is a problem. See for instance: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35438049.amp
    Sorry but you absolutely did come across as criticising individual choices, and our experience with the NHS as I said absolutely was criticising. Even though we'd been advised by the doctor in the hospital to switch to formula, we were still at each and every checkup afterwards until about six months given a lecture that breast is best.

    Yes, breast is best, I've said that all along, but starvation is worse.

    As for your link, it doesn't say what you're saying. As you say WTO guidelines is about until 6 months and 84% of UK mothers attempt that, that's not bad. The 'worst' being quoted is at more than 12 months.

    Expectant mothers absolutely should be advised that breast is best. But it would also be good to advise about the difficulties they might face and alternatives should it be proven necessary, but none of that was discussed with us.

    Even if you don't want to discuss alternatives in advance, after birth post-partum is difficult at the best of times and when people have struggled and have no alternative to feed their child that should be handled with far more sensitivity than relentlessly and ignorantly drumming home 'breast is best' again and again even after breast has been tried and failed.

    Yes most mothers can breastfeed. And in the UK most mothers do for newborns. But if you're in the minority who can't, then that should be handled sensitively. There is nothing wrong with being in a minority - and the alternative for that minority in the past was death.

    33% of infants died in infancy in previous centuries, the fact that most have no problems doesn't help when you're not in that majority.
    I am sorry if I came across as criticising individual choices, that certainly wasn't my intention - I was not breastfed as a child, a fact I know my mum has always felt guilty about but she has no reason to, it wasn't her fault at all. But it is an area where we are falling down as a society, where I think we should be doing better in aggregate. I don't think it's a trivial thing, either.
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    BiB: As I said at the start of the conversation, that is exactly how we were treated. Maybe we had a bad experience, but I know others who've had similar experiences and said the same.

    Sensitivity is not something that some people do well.

    Even after we tried and failed to breastfeed, we still repeatedly had it drummed quite insensitively. My wife laughs about it now, but at the time she felt bad enough about it without having ignorant people casting aspersions. Too many people unfortunately do look down on that, even if its not a choice.

    I have no qualms about saying breast is best - it is. But there needs to be much more sensitivity and acceptance of second best, because that's better than starvation.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Apologies for swearing before, I lost my temper as this is a sensitive subject for me. Sorry about that.

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Like I said, I am not criticising individual choices. I was lucky that my wife had no problems breastfeeding our three children and they were all exclusively breastfed to 6 months in line with WTO guidelines, and I certainly don't judge people (like my own mother) who for whatever reason can't breastfeed a child. I'm not saying breastfeed or let the child die FFS. My point is that something has gone wrong for us as a society that our rates of breastfeeding our so low, since we know that breastfeeding is unambiguously the best option for mother and child alike where it works. Other societies have far higher rates of breastfeeding than we do, in fact we are perhaps the worst in the world at it. I think that is a problem. See for instance: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35438049.amp
    Sorry but you absolutely did come across as criticising individual choices, and our experience with the NHS as I said absolutely was criticising. Even though we'd been advised by the doctor in the hospital to switch to formula, we were still at each and every checkup afterwards until about six months given a lecture that breast is best.

    Yes, breast is best, I've said that all along, but starvation is worse.

    As for your link, it doesn't say what you're saying. As you say WTO guidelines is about until 6 months and 84% of UK mothers attempt that, that's not bad. The 'worst' being quoted is at more than 12 months.

    Expectant mothers absolutely should be advised that breast is best. But it would also be good to advise about the difficulties they might face and alternatives should it be proven necessary, but none of that was discussed with us.

    Even if you don't want to discuss alternatives in advance, after birth post-partum is difficult at the best of times and when people have struggled and have no alternative to feed their child that should be handled with far more sensitivity than relentlessly and ignorantly drumming home 'breast is best' again and again even after breast has been tried and failed.

    Yes most mothers can breastfeed. And in the UK most mothers do for newborns. But if you're in the minority who can't, then that should be handled sensitively. There is nothing wrong with being in a minority - and the alternative for that minority in the past was death.

    33% of infants died in infancy in previous centuries, the fact that most have no problems doesn't help when you're not in that majority.
    I'm absolutely with you on this.

    Mrs Capitano had enormous trouble trying to breast-feed. The advice was "oh, keep trying, it'll come eventually. Here, try this pump. Here, try this technique". And so on.

    It didn't happen and Capitano Junior ended up in the 5th lowest percentile for weight for his age. Eventually we told the advice-givers to fuck off and went for the bottle. Happy mother, happy kid.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    They just reported a £5m donation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/21/mohamed-mansour-conservatives-biggest-donation-20-years/
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,144

    Pretty awful inflation numbers again.

    FFS.

    The BoE are going to "learn lessons" so the same useless bunch who thought this was transitory and were too slow to react to the threat are going to sit there, in their highly paid jobs, having screwed up with people up and down the country paying the price for it, to have another go.

    Utter joke.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431
    kjh said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    Can you ask the auctioneer to pass on your details to the seller, if it's a data protection thing? Although I guess it's also a auctioneer's commission thing, too?

    If you have the 11-digit number from the vehicle’s log book (V5C) then you can see where the last MOT was online and could then maybe try the garage if it's a local one/specialist one that might know the customer - or may be that the MOTer is a dealer selling it?. But if you'd seen the log book then you'd have the owner's details.

    I guess you've tried googling the registration/other details, just in case?
    Cheers. Yes googled like mad. I did assume it was a commission thing. Car doesn't need an MOT (I always find it mind boggling that an ancient car doesn't).
    Oh yes, I forgot about the MOT not needed for classics thing.

    Assuming you've got images, google image search? Just in case the owner re-used images that had also been posted elsewhere, e.g. classics club or personal blog. But likely the auction house did their own?

    Also Sandpit's suggestion, although I suspect sharing the details with you is a breach of data protection (on their part). Looking up the details for a legitimate purpose in course of their business, fine, but sharing with random person, probably not. But their problem/breach, not yours, so might be worth a try.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    Pro_Rata said:

    Rochdale Pioneers said:

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.



    You would hope that nobody is going to do that, but the experience of many on here is otherwise, I'm afraid. My wife, a qualified woman, has been reduced to tears by wrong headed health workers: we have asked them to leave on one occasion and not invited them back. It's not uncommon.

    It would be easy to dismiss Bartholomew as a libertarian radical were he taking a lone stance on this, but I hope I've shown I'm not averse to regulation to help people that might be considered nannying. But in general state agencies tend to coercion where such things exist (in the job centre, midwives etc.) rather than encouragement.

    I'd love public services to re-find that balance for the modern age. I recall as thread header on what should be in the LD manifesto and such a reset was suggested.

    What throws this into even sharper relief is the circumstance in which these things happen. When it's your first child everything is very new and overwhelming. What is meant as well-meaning advice may not be taken as such - and I know that all the advice and all the health professionals are not exclusively well-meaning.

    But we're back to basic principles. The positive impact of breastmilk - even if only for a short time - is sizeable. Scumbags like Nestle (who I used to work for) and the others want to promote formula and parts of the medical industry have been very happy to promote that.

    So as always in life, this is about balance. There are so many positive messages about formula out there and not enough about the most natural thing in the world. Unless we actively combat the societal mindset to not even try to breastfeed, we have problems. But there are right and wrong ways to go about this.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    Pretty awful inflation numbers again.

    FFS.

    To be expected. Its reflecting what happened last year and will be sticky for a while. I know you know this but its comparing prices against 12 months ago.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    BiB: As I said at the start of the conversation, that is exactly how we were treated. Maybe we had a bad experience, but I know others who've had similar experiences and said the same.

    Sensitivity is not something that some people do well.

    Even after we tried and failed to breastfeed, we still repeatedly had it drummed quite insensitively. My wife laughs about it now, but at the time she felt bad enough about it without having ignorant people casting aspersions. Too many people unfortunately do look down on that, even if its not a choice.

    I have no qualms about saying breast is best - it is. But there needs to be much more sensitivity and acceptance of second best, because that's better than starvation.
    And better than destroying the mental health of new parents by making them feel like they're failing their child.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    BiB: As I said at the start of the conversation, that is exactly how we were treated. Maybe we had a bad experience, but I know others who've had similar experiences and said the same.

    Sensitivity is not something that some people do well.

    Even after we tried and failed to breastfeed, we still repeatedly had it drummed quite insensitively. My wife laughs about it now, but at the time she felt bad enough about it without having ignorant people casting aspersions. Too many people unfortunately do look down on that, even if its not a choice.

    I have no qualms about saying breast is best - it is. But there needs to be much more sensitivity and acceptance of second best, because that's better than starvation.
    So many of us have awful experiences in those first few days. Ours wasn't feeding, it was an overly-zealous doctor doing heel prick tests on my son and saying "blood sugar too low". And then witnessing the midwives rowing with him about the way he was both doing the tests and interpreting the results.

    Took a sympathetic midwife to get a friendlier doctor to sign us off before we could escape that torture chamber.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,952
    On obesity.

    • Teach children to cook
    • Cook at home
    • Enjoy the outdoors
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Ukraine is now visually confirmed to have lost more than 500 tanks since #Russia launched its invasion on February 24, 2022.

    On the other hand, Ukraine has already received 575 tanks from NATO countries.

    #Russia is visually confirmed to have lost 1982 tanks.

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661307241255895042
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    They just reported a £5m donation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/21/mohamed-mansour-conservatives-biggest-donation-20-years/
    Who will certainly want something in return for this investment.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    edited May 2023
    kjh said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    I'm starting to believe in god and he is punishing me. I was about to bid on a Panther J72 (quick someone get a defibrillator to @Dura_Ace. I can feel the expletives coming my way). It has been withdrawn from the auction because it is stuck in a garage behind a seized car. I naturally asked the auctioneer if they could give me the sellers details. Not surprisingly they said no. I said it was worth a try and they agreed while laughing. I've missed several cars now. Doomed never to succeed.

    Anyone any ideas how I can find who owns the car (legally)? I have the registration, engine number and chassis number.

    Can you ask the auctioneer to pass on your details to the seller, if it's a data protection thing? Although I guess it's also a auctioneer's commission thing, too?

    If you have the 11-digit number from the vehicle’s log book (V5C) then you can see where the last MOT was online and could then maybe try the garage if it's a local one/specialist one that might know the customer - or may be that the MOTer is a dealer selling it?. But if you'd seen the log book then you'd have the owner's details.

    I guess you've tried googling the registration/other details, just in case?
    Cheers. Yes googled like mad. I did assume it was a commission thing. Car doesn't need an MOT (I always find it mind boggling that an ancient car doesn't).
    If the seller has formally cancelled the contract he has with the action house, then the auctioneer isn’t going to pass the details - unless you sign a contract with him first. That might be an option.

    Be aware that he can and will sue your arse for his commission if you buy the car, and will have expensive lawyers on retainer because it’s part of their doing business.

    A car dealer or MoT centre will have access to the DVLA computer, even for cars that no longer require an MoT.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Regarding that CCO begging letter

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    25m
    This story tallies with a widespread MP rumour that CCHQ were close to missing payroll at the end of last year.......

    Politico: UK Tories opened £2M Santander overdraft as donations slumped amid infighting

    By the looks of it the Tory party aren't currently in the position where they could call an early election - between Bozo, Truss and Rishi they've scared their donaters away.

    They just reported a £5m donation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/21/mohamed-mansour-conservatives-biggest-donation-20-years/
    Who will certainly want something in return for this investment.
    I assume a signed photo of Rishi and a badge saying 'I back Rishi' is the minimum...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    The Tories aren't getting a penny from me.

    As a prospective donor: why shouldn't I see a business plan for how they're going to spend my money? And to achieve what vision?

    They seem to think that just sending round a begging letter with a big open-ended donate button alone will get results.

    Delusional.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    I seem to have mistakenly logged in to Mumsnet this morning.

    What's your favourite biscuit?
  • Options

    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    If food inflation is 70 trillion percent, Brits should learn to eat less. Let’s face it, this is advice that would benefit the majority of these wobbling lard arses

    The government should put it on posters, with a picture of a grim faced Therese Coffey exhorting British voters:

    “Just cut back on the pies and stop whining, you stupid fat fucks”

    I think it could be a piece of Cummings-esque electoral genius like the NHS bus thingy

    I work in Town but live in Hampshire.

    One thing I notice is, generally, how fat and overweight women are with young children in my local town - one assumes all between about 20-35 - and in London where far fewer are.

    Cooking in general seems to be a rarity - and rather time-consuming and generating lots of mess - so I imagine most people only do it once or twice a week and rely on convenience food the rest of the time.

    In London dietary choices and culture for convenience foods are broader and also a tad more expensive than pizza 'n chips.

    There are at least five takeaway pizza places in my home town and I get a leaflet shoved through the door about it most weeks.
    A cause of obesity among women with young children specifically is formula feeding. One of the less important of the many benefits of breastfeeding is loss of excess weight for the mother.
    So it is said. In my experience, although weight loss is an advertised benefit of breastfeeding, it is not linearly true.

    Mrs Rata breast fed all her children to slightly different degrees, but I'll tell of the one where she tried to breast feed the most, our third. She did none of the bedtime formula feed which worked a dream but was frowned upon, none of the usual scepticism to the recommendation to hold off any solid food to 6 months (advice that had changed from 4 months between kids), that's where she put on the most weight. She spent a lot of that
    period absolutely ravenous, and by ceasing breastfeeding she was 15kg above her pre-pregnancy weight. In fact, after 6 months of breastfeeding she weighed more than she did pre-birth. Happily, she got back to her fighting weight over the following 3-4 years.

    We have a London in-law also following these middle class ideals. Breastfeeding was maintained in full for the requisite health visitor mandated times ,and then continued to some degree well, well beyond 6 months. She has suffered similarly to my wife and not yet recovered.

    It may be the opposite to what you think, so press pause on your 'bad parent' assumptions.
    Everyone is different. My wife is currently breastfeeding our boy, mixed with some formula at night as she can't keep up. She has lost most of the weight gain.

    However - my wife is never hungry when tired, and she is currently exhausted.

    Other people eat more when tired. That may well lead them to gain weight when breastfeeding a newborn.
    Yep. Breastfeeding -> more calories out. Whether it helps with weight loss depends on calories in, which is related to a number of things, including tiredness, mood etc.

    (My wife has breastfed all three; none have ever had any formula. It's worked well, it's cheaper, has the well documented benefits and she likes doing it, but it doesn't work for everyone and we were open to the possibility of formula feeding. Number three is challenging sleep-wise at the moment and we're both eating a bit more, I think, seeking energy due to tiredness. If* formula would induce more sleep then perhaps we'd eat less.

    * sleep problems due to teething rather than hunger, I think - he's almost one and has little milk in the day now and doesn't have a great deal at night, either.)
    I'm happy your wife was able to and you mention the issue that not everyone can, that's an attitude the NHS absolutely can and should learn from.

    When we had ours we absolutely had the "breast is best" line drummed into us and my wife had always intended to breastfeed, but she was unable to do so despite trying her best. Which is the case for a lot of new mothers.

    We ended up using formula not as a choice, but because a fed child is healthier than a hungry child. My wife and our eldest daughter got admitted to Hospital for a few nights when she was just a few days old partially due to this and partially due to an ear infection and she was advised by the head of the unit eventually to switch to formula - but even afterwards and with our second child multiple healthcare workers were very judgmental about the fact we were formula feeding.

    Post partum and parenting a newborn is a stressful time at the best of times for new mothers, but when feeding isn't going 'to plan' a lot more sensitivity than 'breast is best' absolute dogmatism would be appreciated.
    I don't think 'breast is best' is dogmatism, it's just a fact and it is the duty of health are professionals to provide people with the facts, especially when new mothers are bombarded by misleading commercial propaganda from multinational food processing companies trying to argue a false equivalence.
    Of course there are some people who can't breastfeed for many reasons - I wasn't breastfed as a result of the blood thinning medication my mum had to take when her pregnancy with me ran into complications. But humans have breastfed without too many problems for millenia and do I think we need to wonder what has gone wrong with our society that we now have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, which is denying millions of children the best start in life and denying millions of mothers what should be one of the best experiences of their lives.
    Sorry but hammering the message home each and every time you get a checkup even after saying there are issues absolutely is insensitive dogmatism.

    Curious about what misleading commercial propaganda you've seen since I've never seen any in my life, considering its against the law for firms to advertise formula for under 6 months.

    Nothing has gone wrong that we have an epidemic of breastfeeding difficulty, breastfeeding is difficult for some and that's perfectly natural. In the past a lot of babies would die as a result - historically the most common modal age of death was zero and this is part of the reason why.

    Breast may be best, but if breast isn't an option then a fed child is healthier than a hungry child.
    The food processing firms absolutely find ways round this, even in the UK where rules are supposedly tight. Even more so in some developing countries, including ones without a safe water supply and where formula is an unaffordable strain on families' budget.
    We're not in the third world.

    The food processing firms in the UK advertise things they know they can advertise and not newborn formula precisely because there'd be a major backlash if they even attempted to advertise newborn formula in the UK - which they don't. If they're so busy finding ways around this, perhaps link to some of these pervasive adverts because I've not seen any.

    Frankly I find your attitude in this discussion quite offensive. Unless you've had a newborn baby hospitalised and actually struggled with breastfeeding yourself, I think you're in absolutely no place to be judging mothers who have no alternative but to feed their fucking child! 😡

    A fed child is better than a hungry child and that's the end of it. I'm going to log off now as I'm pissed off.
    Am unsure what BR is pissed off about.

    Breast is best. Medically. For mental and physical wellbeing.

    Too many mums don't want to. Family pressure. Society pressure. Partner Pressure. So positive reinforcement is *critical* to get levels up, especially in areas of deprivation. Breast milk helps combat things down the line.

    BUT - when mum can't feed. Whether that is because they just can't get the baby to latch. Because they have their own medical issue. Because it hurts like hell and isn't getting better. Then absolutely baby needs to be fed and bottle feeding is then critical.

    Nobody said that babies should be left hungry. And unless there has been a radical change in practice midwives and breastfeeding consultants do not act negatively towards women who have tried and failed to breastfeed. Because PND is bad and nobody actively wants to push mum into depression. If breastfeeding isn't working, use a bottle. Nobody will attack that, look down on that, consider that to be a failure. Because it isn't.

    Is the BR rage because as libertarian he objects to do-gooders telling people what to do? That we shouldn't encourage breastfeeding for all the mental and physical health benefits because it should be free choice? If it is free choice, should there not be equal promotion of breastfeeding to at least the same level of promotion we have of formula?

    I don't get it.
    BiB: As I said at the start of the conversation, that is exactly how we were treated. Maybe we had a bad experience, but I know others who've had similar experiences and said the same.

    Sensitivity is not something that some people do well.

    Even after we tried and failed to breastfeed, we still repeatedly had it drummed quite insensitively. My wife laughs about it now, but at the time she felt bad enough about it without having ignorant people casting aspersions. Too many people unfortunately do look down on that, even if its not a choice.

    I have no qualms about saying breast is best - it is. But there needs to be much more sensitivity and acceptance of second best, because that's better than starvation.
    So many of us have awful experiences in those first few days. Ours wasn't feeding, it was an overly-zealous doctor doing heel prick tests on my son and saying "blood sugar too low". And then witnessing the midwives rowing with him about the way he was both doing the tests and interpreting the results.

    Took a sympathetic midwife to get a friendlier doctor to sign us off before we could escape that torture chamber.
    We had a nightmare the first couple of weeks. I'm certain the student midwife screwed up measuring our daughters weight somehow, I never checked it with her and neither did anyone else but she weighed her in at 7lb 13 even though she born tiny. The newborn clothes we'd bought for her were too big for her and everyone who saw her said she didn't look 7lb 13 but nobody thought to recheck the number.

    We took her home the 2nd day and then got a visit from a healthcare visitor whom I asked to re-weigh her but she refused and said they don't do that. She really struggled to feed those first 2 weeks, though was getting some food, but after 2 weeks we went to the weigh in and she was weighed in at 6lb 0 coincidentally by the same woman who refused to weigh her on day 2. She was immediately admitted to hospital as she'd "lost" 20% of her birth weight and we were treated as if we were deliberately starving our child and "how could we not notice" she was starving? The truth was she was struggling, but not starving.

    For the next few hours we were treated almost like child abusers, until the head of the unit came and took one look at the child and said instantly "that is not a baby that's lost 20% of her birth weight". We were then treated very sensitively until we left and after a few nights she discharged having been advised ultimately to switch to formula. But still despite that being said to be necessary in the hospital, the next checkups with stranger were quite judgmental.

    For our 2nd my wife tried again but was quicker and much more confident to say that it wasn't working again. Still she was treated quite judgmentally at checkups.

    Good intentions are good, and give all information in advance. But when people are struggling or have struggled, then their decisions should be respected rather than scorned. You say it shouldn't happen and I agree it shouldn't, but it does.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited May 2023

    I seem to have mistakenly logged in to Mumsnet this morning.

    What's your favourite biscuit?
    Hopefully not a soggy one.

    Public interest warning, do not google 'Soggy biscuit' on a work device.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    I seem to have mistakenly logged in to Mumsnet this morning.

    What's your favourite biscuit?
    Hopefully not a soggy one.

    Public interest warning, do not google 'Soggy biscuit' on a work device.
    Tone TSE, tone.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431

    The Tories aren't getting a penny from me.

    As a prospective donor: why shouldn't I see a business plan for how they're going to spend my money? And to achieve what vision?

    They seem to think that just sending round a begging letter with a big open-ended donate button alone will get results.

    Delusional.

    I find the focus on spending actions interesting - x leaflets, y ads etc. Nothing on outcomes. A bit like a charity asking for money to recruit x new people, rather than helping y people in need.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378

    The Tories aren't getting a penny from me.

    As a prospective donor: why shouldn't I see a business plan for how they're going to spend my money? And to achieve what vision?

    They seem to think that just sending round a begging letter with a big open-ended donate button alone will get results.

    Delusional.

    Because like the one sent the day after locals, CCHQ want members to feel responsible if Starmer becomes PM because they haven't donated enough.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431

    I seem to have mistakenly logged in to Mumsnet this morning.

    Stay on here and talk about breastfeeding - there's too much politics on Mumsnet, you won't like it :wink:
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,092

    I seem to have mistakenly logged in to Mumsnet this morning.

    Perish the thought that men take an interest in child development!
This discussion has been closed.