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LAB moves to an 86% betting chance to win a Rutherglen by-election – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,168
    edited May 2023

    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    There is another by-election pending - for a hereditary Lib Dem in the House of Lords. There are 3 candidates - Lord Belhaven, Earl Lloyd George, and Earl Russell. So 2 descendants of Liberal Prime ministers and one who isn't.

    How big is the electorate this time?
    Hundreds. The electorate is all members of the House of Lords who have taken the oath of allegiance or made a solemn affirmation to KCIII on or before 9 June except those disqualified, suspended or on leave of absence.
    I don't think this is correct as it's an election of one of the three elected Lib Dem hereditary peers so the electorate is limited to Lib Dem hereditary peers (even though Viscount Falkland actually left the Lib Dems and went crossbench a good decade ago - the vacancy is still for one of the three Lib Dem hereditaries).

    There are also 15 hereditaries who are elected by the whole House, but the allocations set in 1999 were for 42 Tories, 28 crossbench, three Lib Dem and two Labour (Labour had very few because very few Labour hereditaries and also they preferred to take most of their allocation as life peers going forward). But other than the 15, they are elected by their own party's hereditaries only.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Isn't it the cover up again ?

    Deleting her tweet makes it look as if she has something to hide

    I would have expected her to fly business class anyway
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Sir Keir needs to act quickly: sack her and withdraw the whip. This is an example of such egregious entitlement that the public will start looking at Boris's Covid Saturnalias with relative fondness. A drastic narrowing of the polls is now the least Sir Keir can expect, and if he and Labour aren't seen to be bursting with contrition then - mark my words! - he'll spend every day from now until the General Election with 'Why can't she use Skype like everyone else' ringing in his ears.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour leads by 12%, tying their narrowest lead since Rishi Sunak became Prime Minister.

    Westminster VI (21 May):

    Labour 42% (–)
    Conservative 30% (+2)
    Liberal Democrat 13% (+2)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 4% (-1)
    SNP 4% (–)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 14 May

    LLG 59 plays RefCon 35. That's a smaller gap than most other pollsters, but interestingly a 2 point widening since the last poll (58 vs 36).
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136

    Fishing said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.
    People aren't annoyed that she sits in business class, they're annoyed that they don't themselves.

    The same reason people get irate about CEO pay - if they were earning CEO salaries themselves, they wouldn't object. Same with Russian billionaire superyachts - cancelling them won't shorten the war in Ukraine by even a fraction of a second, but people just don't like others owning expensive toys when they can hardly make ends meet themselves.
    The Russian oligarch yacht confiscations are about causing pain to the people enabling Putin.

    IIRC a gentlemen of this parish stated that his Russian friends were miserable because their big bath toys had been taken away.
    They may well be, but their influence on Putin is wildly overstated, just as people overstated German businessmen's influence over Hitler. Putin is the boss and doesn't seem to listen to anyone.

    Believe me, if I thought that stealing their yachts would shorten the war even slightly, the end would justify the means. But I see no evidence at all that wealthy Russians are "enabling" Putin at all. He rules by fear, not consent, and Russia produces its own bullets and riot gear. The way to end the war and maybe get rid of him is to break his armies on the battlefield and the way to do that is to send the Ukrainians all the weapons and economic aid we can afford.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550

    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    There is another by-election pending - for a hereditary Lib Dem in the House of Lords. There are 3 candidates - Lord Belhaven, Earl Lloyd George, and Earl Russell. So 2 descendants of Liberal Prime ministers and one who isn't.

    How big is the electorate this time?
    Hundreds. The electorate is all members of the House of Lords who have taken the oath of allegiance or made a solemn affirmation to KCIII on or before 9 June except those disqualified, suspended or on leave of absence.
    I don't think this is correct as it's an election of one of the three elected Lib Dem hereditary peers so the electorate is limited to Lib Dem hereditary peers (even though Viscount Falkland actually left the Lib Dems and went crossbench a good decade ago - the vacancy is still for one of the three Lib Dem hereditaries).
    I refer the honourable gentleperson to the HofLs notice I linked to before

    .https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-information-office/2023/candidate-notice-falkland.pdf
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    On that poll Keir Starmer would be the greatest Labour election winner possibly ever.

    How did Saint Jeremy do?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    There is another by-election pending - for a hereditary Lib Dem in the House of Lords. There are 3 candidates - Lord Belhaven, Earl Lloyd George, and Earl Russell. So 2 descendants of Liberal Prime ministers and one who isn't.

    How big is the electorate this time?
    Hundreds. The electorate is all members of the House of Lords who have taken the oath of allegiance or made a solemn affirmation to KCIII on or before 9 June except those disqualified, suspended or on leave of absence.
    I don't think this is correct as it's an election of one of the three elected Lib Dem hereditary peers so the electorate is limited to Lib Dem hereditary peers (even though Viscount Falkland actually left the Lib Dems and went crossbench a good decade ago - the vacancy is still for one of the three Lib Dem hereditaries).

    There are also 15 hereditaries who are elected by the whole House, but the allocations set in 1999 were for 42 Tories, 28 crossbench, three Lib Dem and two Labour (Labour had very few because very few Labour hereditaries and also they preferred to take most of their allocation as life peers going forward). But other than the 15, they are elected by their own party's hereditaries only.
    Thought you were correct, however turns out Verulamius is right and you (and yours truly) wrong:

    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-information-office/2023/candidate-notice-falkland.pdf

    "Electors
    Viscount Falkland was one of the 15 hereditary peers elected by the whole House in 1999
    from among those ready to serve as Deputy Speakers. Under Standing Order 9(3), his
    successor will therefore be elected by the whole House, although there is no expectation
    that they will serve as a Deputy Speaker.

    Viscount Falkland was originally elected as a Liberal Democrat, and, in accordance with an
    informal agreement between the parties and groups in the House of Lords, it is expected
    that his successor will sit as a Liberal Democrat member of the House.

    All members of the House who have taken the oath of allegiance or made the solemn
    affirmation to King Charles III on or before 9 June will be eligible to vote, except those
    who are subject to statutory disqualification; suspended from the service of the House; or
    on leave of absence."
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314
    Can't say I'm surprised you omitted the fact SKS' ratings are up by 2 points and Rishi's are down by 6.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -11%, his lowest rating since 2 April (also -11%).

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (21 May):

    Disapprove: 41% (+3)
    Approve: 30% (-3)
    Net: -11% (-6)

    Changes +/- 14 May


    BJO will be gutted
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”

    That doesn’t say Leon!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Isn't it the cover up again ?

    Deleting her tweet makes it look as if she has something to hide

    I would have expected her to fly business class anyway
    Oh dear BigG. it's beer and curry all over again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Leon said:

    Incidentally on this theme of incredible Chinese motorways this is now the 4th or 5th country where I’ve encountered them in the last few years


    Turkey
    Sri Lanka
    Vietnam (I think)
    Egypt
    Thailand

    Imagine if, over the last 30 years, America - and the west in general - had abhorred warfare and instead decided to build motorways and infrastructure wherever it could. Imagine if the 29 trillion spent on the Iraq war had been spent on hospitals and hi speed rail

    The world would now be a much kinder place for us. And for humanity. I speak as an idiot that thought the Iraq war was a good if difficult idea

    Sri Lanka was bankrupted in the process.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Isn't it the cover up again ?

    Deleting her tweet makes it look as if she has something to hide

    I would have expected her to fly business class anyway
    She is not paying for it, its a freebie paid for by Private Health lobbyists

    If Labour win they will be paid back several thousands of times over as Streeting hands more of NHS to them
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647
    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”

    “ “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus” And they really have”

    You can use this to decipher the hieroglyphics on the Rosetta Stone.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,314
    Good Scottish subsample for the SNP on that R&W poll.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Isn't it the cover up again ?

    Deleting her tweet makes it look as if she has something to hide

    I would have expected her to fly business class anyway
    Oh dear BigG. it's beer and curry all over again.
    Of course its not

    I have no problem with her business class flight

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    Leon said:

    Welcome, my friends, to the Diplomat Suite at the Four Seasons Cairo

    They have inscribed my name in chocolate hieroglyphs on a special chocolate obelisk



    They have built me a tray of sweetmeats made like the pyramids



    And from my Nile side balcony I can see…



    And you've brought one of your flint phalluses with you too. Ahh!
    Lots of concrete in view , great planners there obviously , looks like a shithole.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Labours NHS plan

    1 Shut Hospitals

    2 Cut NHS Budget in real terms

    3 Back real wage cuts for Nurses

    4 Handover more Taxpayer money to Private Sector Health Lobbyists *

    *Note re 4 Biggest Labour Donors to Streeting / Starmer Profit big style

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Sort of agree with that, but amongst the public at large anything that reinforces broken sleazy tories on the slide is hard to resist.

    Plus NHS policies have a longer window of attention. If you don't go in on Suella today then the moment has probably passed, whereas you can bring the NHS proposals back up multiple times.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    There is another by-election pending - for a hereditary Lib Dem in the House of Lords. There are 3 candidates - Lord Belhaven, Earl Lloyd George, and Earl Russell. So 2 descendants of Liberal Prime ministers and one who isn't.

    How big is the electorate this time?
    Hundreds. The electorate is all members of the House of Lords who have taken the oath of allegiance or made a solemn affirmation to KCIII on or before 9 June except those disqualified, suspended or on leave of absence.
    I don't think this is correct as it's an election of one of the three elected Lib Dem hereditary peers so the electorate is limited to Lib Dem hereditary peers (even though Viscount Falkland actually left the Lib Dems and went crossbench a good decade ago - the vacancy is still for one of the three Lib Dem hereditaries).

    There are also 15 hereditaries who are elected by the whole House, but the allocations set in 1999 were for 42 Tories, 28 crossbench, three Lib Dem and two Labour (Labour had very few because very few Labour hereditaries and also they preferred to take most of their allocation as life peers going forward). But other than the 15, they are elected by their own party's hereditaries only.
    Thought you were correct, however turns out Verulamius is right and you (and yours truly) wrong:

    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/lords-information-office/2023/candidate-notice-falkland.pdf

    "Electors
    Viscount Falkland was one of the 15 hereditary peers elected by the whole House in 1999
    from among those ready to serve as Deputy Speakers. Under Standing Order 9(3), his
    successor will therefore be elected by the whole House, although there is no expectation
    that they will serve as a Deputy Speaker.

    Viscount Falkland was originally elected as a Liberal Democrat, and, in accordance with an
    informal agreement between the parties and groups in the House of Lords, it is expected
    that his successor will sit as a Liberal Democrat member of the House.

    All members of the House who have taken the oath of allegiance or made the solemn
    affirmation to King Charles III on or before 9 June will be eligible to vote, except those
    who are subject to statutory disqualification; suspended from the service of the House; or
    on leave of absence."
    Well, my apologies to Verulamius as I could have sworn he was one of the Lib Dems elected by Lib Dems rather than one of the 15. It's therefore a rather odd situation where all the candidates are Lib Dem, but most of the voters aren't!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,647

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    What was I saying about Reeves being a woman of the people by flying commercial?

    As if by magic:

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1660681735292502019?s=20
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,011

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”

    That doesn’t say Leon!
    hmm is it just me or is this self doxxing?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023
    Email from Ocado;

    Subject:

    You can skip Father’s Day emails.

    Body:

    No thanks to Father's Day emails?

    No problem. We know some of our customers would rather not hear from us about certain days of the year.

    To opt out of emails related to Father’s Day, tap the link below. On the contact form, choose 'I need to update my marketing preferences’, then select 'I want to opt out of Father's Day emails'. You’ll then be able to unsubscribe from our Father’s Day emails.

    Just so you know, you’ll still get all the other updates you’re used to receiving from us.



    So they expect me to click a pile of links, fill in a load of my personal details, and tell them that my father has died in order for them not to use my relationship with my father as a marketing device to try and sell me their overpriced shit? And by the tone of their email, they seem to think I should be grateful to them for being so considerate.

    Capitalism has got too creepy.

    Call me old fashioned, but… I don’t want an intimate relationship with my supermarket….
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    But...next time someone comes up with the tired old "but what do you stand for, you don't have any policies" he can counter with a list of policies.

    Not fully costed yet of course - that comes with the manifesto.

    The other advantage of making policy announcements now is kite flying. If something goes down really badly it can be quietly dropped before the manifesto comes out. U-turning during an election campaign is disastrous and practically impossible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited May 2023
    OK, am getting Uriah Heep style groveling here

    “Is the river view good enough, Sir Leon? Would you like me to open the sun shade a little more?”

    Well, it’s just the sun going down over the fucking NILE. It’ll do




  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Sir Keir needs to act quickly: sack her and withdraw the whip. This is an example of such egregious entitlement that the public will start looking at Boris's Covid Saturnalias with relative fondness. A drastic narrowing of the polls is now the least Sir Keir can expect, and if he and Labour aren't seen to be bursting with contrition then - mark my words! - he'll spend every day from now until the General Election with 'Why can't she use Skype like everyone else' ringing in his ears.
    Heading to New York business class really isn't that expensive - the scary part is the cost for the return (night leg) when people want (and are willing to pay for) the bed to sleep in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have


    They seem to have mixed you up with some guy called Sean? Bizarre.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Taz, it is all perception , most people are struggling to py their bills , having to cut back on almost everything , yet politicians who cause this are immune and able to live high on the hog on expenses.
    You woudl have thought that they woudl have bettened dowwn the hatches and ensured they took reasonable low cost options where they can , short flights like this do not need business class or first class, Sunak does not need helicopters , etc etc.
    It is all a bit Marie Antoinette and they are too thick to see what it looks like to people struggling to buy food even.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have


    They seem to have mixed you up with some guy called Sean? Bizarre.
    They got it WRONG????
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have


    They seem to have mixed you up with some guy called Sean? Bizarre.
    They got it WRONG????
    Are you sharing a room with SeanT again? He seems to follow you absolutely everywhere?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have


    They seem to have mixed you up with some guy called Sean? Bizarre.
    I see he's still carrying around the union flag pincushion. Most odd.
    For the spare needles ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    edited May 2023

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Tend to agree. If Braverman goes I think that would gain as many Tory votes back as it would lose. She is 5th on a list of 274 reasons why I am not voting Tory.

    Braverman will only go if there is an agenda at the very top to dispose of her.

    What she has done is easy to present as 'Being HS there are security issues in doing a speed course with Joe Public as she might get killed by a Guardian reader, and would need a bunch of armed heavies to attend with her, and all the actions, we discover on enquiry, were towards dealing with that issue'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    This is one of the less dodgy donations of late.

    Ex-Mubarak minister Mohamed Mansour donates £5m to Tories
    Tory senior treasurer Mansour says he wants to assist ‘very capable prime minister’ Rishi Sunak
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/ex-mubarak-minister-mohamed-mansour-donates-5m-to-tories
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”

    That doesn’t say Leon!
    hmm is it just me or is this self doxxing?
    Mate, it’s random Egyptian letters from 2000BC. As doxxings go it’s quite obscure

    Next they will reveal my approximate postcode in a mixture of Cunieform and Gomeran Whistling

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbo_Gomero
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited May 2023
    After todays abject performance on the NHS the next "Does SKS look like a PM in waiting" will surely get even worse than last months shockingly poor minus 22

    YES 29

    NO 51

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/does-keir-starmer-look-like-a-prime-minister-in-waiting
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Labours NHS plan

    1 Shut Hospitals

    2 Cut NHS Budget in real terms

    3 Back real wage cuts for Nurses

    4 Handover more Taxpayer money to Private Sector Health Lobbyists *

    *Note re 4 Biggest Labour Donors to Streeting / Starmer Profit big style

    Join the Conservative Party, it's your natural political home now. Full of people criticising Starmer, just like you. You do want Labour to lose, go on, admit it, you really do. Just like they do.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    OK, am getting Uriah Heep style groveling here

    “Is the river view good enough, Sir Leon? Would you like me to open the sun shade a little more?”

    Well, it’s just the sun going down over the fucking NILE. It’ll do




    What's this "Sir Leon" crap? Surely a truly obsequious servant should refer to such a distinguished English guest as "Your Lordship"!

    Suggest breaking out your Penang Lawyer and giving these miscreants a bit of stick for their impertinence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Welcome, my friends, to the Diplomat Suite at the Four Seasons Cairo

    They have inscribed my name in chocolate hieroglyphs on a special chocolate obelisk



    They have built me a tray of sweetmeats made like the pyramids



    And from my Nile side balcony I can see…



    And you've brought one of your flint phalluses with you too. Ahh!
    Lots of concrete in view , great planners there obviously , looks like a shithole.
    Cairo is, without question, a shithole. It is very very sad

    Its population has possibly exploded faster than any city on earth. Mexico City? Jakarta? Lagos?

    I suspect Cairo is first, or certainly close
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    algarkirk said:

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Tend to agree. If Braverman goes I think that would gain as many Tory votes back as it would lose. She is 5th on a list of 274 reasons why I am not voting Tory.

    Braverman will only go if there is an agenda at the very top to dispose of her.

    What she has done is easy to present as 'Being HS there are security issues in doing a speed course with Joe Public as she might get killed by a Guardian reader, and would need a bunch of armed heavies to attend with her, and all the actions, we discover on enquiry, were towards dealing with that issue'.
    You assume that the person conducting the enquiry will be told to exonerate her and will follow that instruction? I don't see much reason to assume either of those things.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Sir K's position truly is hard. There isn't real fiscal wriggle room, all the really difficult issues will take years (NHS and 100 others) or else the solutions aren't permitted (post Brexit).

    So we don't believe it if he promises much; and 'what's the point' if he doesn't.

    He needs to win for dull reasons: Time for a change. Tories need to get out and think what their principles are (if any). Above all a scintilla of competence, honesty and integrity.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate

    Is it bad that I approve of increased arms sales over pears?

    I approve of a new, aggressive, based, martial UK. Fuck this peace green shit. We’re all gonna die. Let us export killer weapons and become rich. Maybe invade somewhere
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Sky news have picked up on Starmer’s “no magic money tree” awful Theresa May speech today

    Starmer is unleashing waves of new policy - but still fails to explain how he would pay for it all

    As part of a long-term effort to convince voters that Labour is ready for government, Sir Keir Starmer today unveiled the third of his five missions.
    It seems that his response to being accused of lacking a big vision for the country is to unleash wave after wave of detailed policies and ambitious pledges.
    In a speech that lasted half an hour, the wishlist went from slashing waiting times to restrictions on advertising to children.
    It included personal anecdotes alongside transformative plans that span the next decade.
    The only area that was a little light on information was how it would all be paid for, beyond some narrowly focused funding pledges on closing tax loopholes.
    The Labour leader said that would be forthcoming as the next general election draws near.
    But if he wants to reassure voters that the public finances as well as the NHS are safe in his hands, he can't put it off much longer.

    To continue what is a bad day at the top of Labour, also from Sky news, this financial and communication mess up was also quickly picked up by PB in the last thread

    Senior Labour frontbencher under fire for business class flight to New York
    Suella Braverman is not the only senior MP under fire today.
    Shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has been criticised for taking a business class flight to New York where she is set to meet businesses, before travelling to Washington DC for meetings and a speech tomorrow.
    Yesterday evening, she posted a tweet with a photo of herself on the plane before take-off from Heathrow, but eagle-eyed users spotted her seat number on her boarding pass.
    She was sitting in seat number 3K, which is a business class seat with a lie-flat bed, according to online seat maps.
    However, the tweet was deleted when users began pointing out her front-of-the-plane accommodation. The tweet was subsequently re-posted with the information blurred out, but that was also later deleted.
    Must say, I find this line of criticism completely bonkers. I’ve said the same whenever it’s weaponised against Tory PMs/chancellors/cabinet members.

    What’s the point of first/business class, if we don’t put our most important people in the seats?

    I find the whole *scandal* unfathomable.

    Having said that, as I understand the thinking, they usually justify 1st/business on a privacy/security basis. Posting a photo on Twitter somewhat undermines the privacy argument.
    Unforced error from Reeves. Made worse by the deleting, blurring, then deleting again

    She’s the Shadow Chancellor of the UK flying to New York, of course she can fly Business. She’s not even going from LHR. It’s from Gatwick. It’s cheaper

    She should own it and accept any criticism and say This is my job
    I must say I find this Reeves business mystifying. I’m just feeling ‘so what’
    Isn't it the cover up again ?

    Deleting her tweet makes it look as if she has something to hide

    I would have expected her to fly business class anyway
    She is not paying for it, its a freebie paid for by Private Health lobbyists

    If Labour win they will be paid back several thousands of times over as Streeting hands more of NHS to them
    It's not going to be value for money for the lobbyists then. Most of it has already been handed over under successive Tory Health Secretaries on your boy Corbyn's watch as LOTO. So self absorbed, he didn't notice the creeping privatisation of the NHS, or didn't really care when there were so many ludicrous bandwagons on which to jump.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Nigelb said:

    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate

    Ukraine has probably boosted the reputation of British munitions.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Chris said:

    algarkirk said:

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    Tend to agree. If Braverman goes I think that would gain as many Tory votes back as it would lose. She is 5th on a list of 274 reasons why I am not voting Tory.

    Braverman will only go if there is an agenda at the very top to dispose of her.

    What she has done is easy to present as 'Being HS there are security issues in doing a speed course with Joe Public as she might get killed by a Guardian reader, and would need a bunch of armed heavies to attend with her, and all the actions, we discover on enquiry, were towards dealing with that issue'.
    You assume that the person conducting the enquiry will be told to exonerate her and will follow that instruction? I don't see much reason to assume either of those things.
    No. I think she will only go if Rishi wants to get rid of her. Regardless of what an enquiry might find. I hope he does, but this current farrago is not an especially good reason.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Nigelb said:

    This is one of the less dodgy donations of late.

    Ex-Mubarak minister Mohamed Mansour donates £5m to Tories
    Tory senior treasurer Mansour says he wants to assist ‘very capable prime minister’ Rishi Sunak
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/ex-mubarak-minister-mohamed-mansour-donates-5m-to-tories

    Settled a multi million pound tax dispute with HMRC too!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    Leon said:

    OK, am getting Uriah Heep style groveling here

    “Is the river view good enough, Sir Leon? Would you like me to open the sun shade a little more?”

    Well, it’s just the sun going down over the fucking NILE. It’ll do




    What's this "Sir Leon" crap? Surely a truly obsequious servant should refer to such a distinguished English guest as "Your Lordship"!

    Suggest breaking out your Penang Lawyer and giving these miscreants a bit of stick for their impertinence.
    Effendi, or pasha, or padishah?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Welcome, my friends, to the Diplomat Suite at the Four Seasons Cairo

    They have inscribed my name in chocolate hieroglyphs on a special chocolate obelisk



    They have built me a tray of sweetmeats made like the pyramids



    And from my Nile side balcony I can see…



    And you've brought one of your flint phalluses with you too. Ahh!
    Lots of concrete in view , great planners there obviously , looks like a shithole.
    Cairo is, without question, a shithole. It is very very sad

    Its population has possibly exploded faster than any city on earth. Mexico City? Jakarta? Lagos?

    I suspect Cairo is first, or certainly close
    For sure totally wrecked what could have been a stunning vista
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    edited May 2023

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    Starmer committed to get back, when he can, to the same service levels as the ones the Conservatives inherited from Labour, that the previous Labour government met and which the Conservative government misses by a country mile.

    And you expect people.to back the Conservative position on this?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,011
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Impressive

    “We have hand painted your name in pharaonic letters on an original handmade papyrus”

    And they really have



    It’s not enough tho. I want “we have slaughtered and sacrificed 17 cats to the goddess Bastet, and had them mummified and placed in a shape to resemble your ex wife; you will find them in the bed”

    That doesn’t say Leon!
    hmm is it just me or is this self doxxing?
    Mate, it’s random Egyptian letters from 2000BC. As doxxings go it’s quite obscure

    Next they will reveal my approximate postcode in a mixture of Cunieform and Gomeran Whistling

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbo_Gomero
    But easy to translate if you look at https://www.historyforkids.net/ancient-egyptian-alphabet.html#google_vignette
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate

    Is it bad that I approve of increased arms sales over pears?

    I approve of a new, aggressive, based, martial UK. Fuck this peace green shit. We’re all gonna die. Let us export killer weapons and become rich. Maybe invade somewhere
    Why not both?

    Some kiwi fruit can be razor sharp, you know….
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,671

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate

    Is it bad that I approve of increased arms sales over pears?

    I approve of a new, aggressive, based, martial UK. Fuck this peace green shit. We’re all gonna die. Let us export killer weapons and become rich. Maybe invade somewhere
    Why not both?

    Some kiwi fruit can be razor sharp, you know….
    The tiger, however, does not relish the peach.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Madeleine McCann will starve all oxygen from SKS tonight.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Welcome, my friends, to the Diplomat Suite at the Four Seasons Cairo

    They have inscribed my name in chocolate hieroglyphs on a special chocolate obelisk



    They have built me a tray of sweetmeats made like the pyramids



    And from my Nile side balcony I can see…



    And you've brought one of your flint phalluses with you too. Ahh!
    Lots of concrete in view , great planners there obviously , looks like a shithole.
    Cairo is, without question, a shithole. It is very very sad

    Its population has possibly exploded faster than any city on earth. Mexico City? Jakarta? Lagos?

    I suspect Cairo is first, or certainly close
    For sure totally wrecked what could have been a stunning vista
    Was a stunning vista - for about 4,500 years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK fruit exports to EU have dropped by more than half since Brexit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit

    Rather more impressively...

    UK arms sales reach record £8.5bn as global tensions escalate
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/uk-arms-sales-reach-record-85bn-as-global-tensions-escalate

    Is it bad that I approve of increased arms sales over pears?

    I approve of a new, aggressive, based, martial UK. Fuck this peace green shit. We’re all gonna die. Let us export killer weapons and become rich. Maybe invade somewhere
    Why not both?

    Some kiwi fruit can be razor sharp, you know….
    The tiger, however, does not relish the peach.
    That sounds like you are pooh-poohing my comment

    …never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Madeleine McCann will starve all oxygen from SKS tonight.
    Sky are all Braverman story just now
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Or, indeed, fucking them?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    FF43 said:

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    Starmer committed to get back, when he can, to the same service levels as the ones the Conservatives inherited from Labour, that the previous Labour government met and which the Conservative government misses by a country mile.

    And you expect people.to back the Conservative position on this?

    Labour's position relies on them selling the notion that Sunak wants the NHS to be starved of funds.

    It won't be sellable on the doorsteps. People are sensible enough to know that Covid needs have warped the NHS budget all out of shape. RIshi Sunak can sell his position on the NHS more easily than spend-spend-spend Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Off topic but currently relevant politically I don't believe Braverman has breached the ministerial code.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    The Prime Minister has a duty to stand up for the BBC on this;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-65670818

    His silence is deafening.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Looks like maybe not. But I see above that a single 33 yo woman says this:

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...


    which is an either/or distinction which 4 billion years of evolution has, perhaps regrettably, rendered untenable.

    I have been married 45 years, and still think 'boy meets girl' is an unbeatable story.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic but currently relevant politically I don't believe Braverman has breached the ministerial code.

    Well not on the speeding, course matter anyway
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Madeleine McCann will starve all oxygen from SKS tonight.
    Sky are all Braverman story just now
    Sunak mouthpiece.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Madeleine McCann will starve all oxygen from SKS tonight.
    Sky are all Braverman story just now
    Sunak mouthpiece.
    I mean Sky by the way, not you.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    We might even try such a radical policy here. I know it would put the Investigation-Report-Writing industry out of business. But, you know, sacrifices must be made.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic but currently relevant politically I don't believe Braverman has breached the ministerial code.

    Well not on the speeding, course matter anyway
    Braverman's real crime is that she had the temerity to accept the job of Home Secretary in the first place. She might have got away with it if she had understood that she was to be seen and not heard, but she also took it upon herself to give voice to opinions of her own. Her position is surely untenable now.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,481

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic but currently relevant politically I don't believe Braverman has breached the ministerial code.

    Well not on the speeding, course matter anyway
    Braverman's real crime is that she had the temerity to accept the job of Home Secretary in the first place. She might have got away with it if she had understood that she was to be seen and not heard, but she also took it upon herself to give voice to opinions of her own. Her position is surely untenable now.
    Not having "opinions of one's own" is fundamental to being a Cabinet Minister.
    Or used to be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Sean_F said:

    I see that on Hertsmere Council, Labour's NEC has made it absolutely plain that Labour councillors are not go into coalition with the Lib Dems.

    That leaves open the possibility that the Conservatives will remain as a minority administration.

    I note that some Labour councillors are threatening to sit as independents.

    It won't if Labour and the LDs vote down the Conservative administration too.

    Though given Sir Keir wants to allow more development on the greenbelt it is hardly surprising Labour's NEC are now wary of going into coalition with the ultra NIMBY LDs locally
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    One aspect of today's NHS which has not got the attention it needs - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-pays-millions-to-victims-of-hospital-sex-pests-kx6qsbmcd
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    We might even try such a radical policy here. I know it would put the Investigation-Report-Writing industry out of business. But, you know, sacrifices must be made.
    Won’t someone please think of the retired judges? Without enough scandals to fuel independent enquires that produce thick reports on Lessons That Will Not Be Learned, how will they keep the Jags fuelled?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303

    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.

    The Tory PM campaigned against Brexit…
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    I totally disagree with you. We're only a year out and Sunak won't go beyond July 2024 because the base effect of fuel prices falling from next month will end and inflation will start to rise again by late Summer. So it's time to be developing the detail. The election campaign is about clarifying the policy offer and demonstrating that it is costed, not about announcing policies out of the blue for the first time.

    Actually listening to the news this evening Starmer's NHS policy announcement is getting a bit more coverage than I had earlier picked up on, and it's anything but crash and burn.
    Madeleine McCann will starve all oxygen from SKS tonight.
    Sky are all Braverman story just now
    Sunak mouthpiece.
    Upset that Sunak is shaming Truss are we

    And it is a factual statement
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Looks like maybe not. But I see above that a single 33 yo woman says this:

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...


    which is an either/or distinction which 4 billion years of evolution has, perhaps regrettably, rendered untenable.

    I have been married 45 years, and still think 'boy meets girl' is an unbeatable story.
    She's not saying she doesn't want the "boy meets girl" story. She'd like the boy to think of her as a human being, a person, not simply a hole to be fucked and pop babies out of.
    She is way too cynical in her views
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Looks like maybe not. But I see above that a single 33 yo woman says this:

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...


    which is an either/or distinction which 4 billion years of evolution has, perhaps regrettably, rendered untenable.

    I have been married 45 years, and still think 'boy meets girl' is an unbeatable story.
    That sounds awfully like the lady in question has met a large number of men who are desperate and have no idea how to approach dating in other than the most… direct manner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited May 2023

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023

    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    It is the incel problem writ large.

    Korean women have adapted to the modern world rather faster than Korean men. Largely because life sucked for them previously.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.

    Didn’t you vote for Brexit?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246

    FF43 said:

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    Starmer committed to get back, when he can, to the same service levels as the ones the Conservatives inherited from Labour, that the previous Labour government met and which the Conservative government misses by a country mile.

    And you expect people.to back the Conservative position on this?

    Labour's position relies on them selling the notion that Sunak wants the NHS to be starved of funds.

    It won't be sellable on the doorsteps. People are sensible enough to know that Covid needs have warped the NHS budget all out of shape. RIshi Sunak can sell his position on the NHS more easily than spend-spend-spend Labour.
    You think "It's fine for us not to provide a working healthcare system because Labour is spend, spend spend" is more sellable on the doorstep than "we will provide the healthcare system the Conservatives are committed to but totally fail to deliver, and which we previously did" ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Looks like maybe not. But I see above that a single 33 yo woman says this:

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...


    which is an either/or distinction which 4 billion years of evolution has, perhaps regrettably, rendered untenable.

    I have been married 45 years, and still think 'boy meets girl' is an unbeatable story.
    She's not saying she doesn't want the "boy meets girl" story. She'd like the boy to think of her as a human being, a person, not simply a hole to be fucked and pop babies out of.
    I’ve been married 61 years and proposed 2 years before we married. I wanted, and got, a life partner to share the good and the bad.
    Family, as children, wasn’t on my mind then.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited May 2023

    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.

    Regret is not the same as wanting to re join

    Our relationship with the EU needs to improve and to be fair Sunak is moving forward on this, not only with the WA but also seeking the use of e gates and other trading improvements. Indeed I would suggest there is little between Sunak and Starmer on the subject

    However, you do seem to overlook how the world is changing and with our membership of the CPTPP and our closer ties with the Far East, not least Japan's 18 billion inward investment agreed by Sunak this week, the way the world trades in the next decade and beyond will be very different for those who dream of a nostalgic view of the EU when we were members
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023

    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    It is the incel problem writ large.

    Korean women have adapted to the modern world rather faster than Korean men. Largely because life sucked for them previously.
    When your birth rate is that low, neither gender can claim to have “adapted”

    Korea is on the verge of extinction. Is that what Korean women want? I don’t think so
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023


    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    Looks like maybe not. But I see above that a single 33 yo woman says this:

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...


    which is an either/or distinction which 4 billion years of evolution has, perhaps regrettably, rendered untenable.

    I have been married 45 years, and still think 'boy meets girl' is an unbeatable story.
    She's not saying she doesn't want the "boy meets girl" story. She'd like the boy to think of her as a human being, a person, not simply a hole to be fucked and pop babies out of.
    I’ve been married 61 years and proposed 2 years before we married. I wanted, and got, a life partner to share the good and the bad.
    Family, as children, wasn’t on my mind then.
    If we reduce your 61 years to our 59 years we are identical in our view
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023

    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.

    So 31% still think Brexit was right ie more still than the 30% who still support the Tories with Redfield today and significantly more than the 26% who voted Tory in the local elections earlier this month.

    So while it might make sense for Labour to start to move towards rejoin or at least closer alignment to the single market as Starmer is starting to do and certainly makes sense for the LDs to do so given almost all their seats and target seats voted Remain anyway, there is zero sense in the Tories doing so. Certainly not for a generation at least
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Regret over Britain’s decision to vote for Brexit has reached new highs, according to new polling tracking so-called “Bregret”.

    A YouGov survey shows the number of Britons saying it was right to vote to leave the European Union in 2016 dropping to its lowest level ever, at 31%…

    Only 9% of Britons now consider Brexit more of a success than a failure, according to the poll. Some 62% of people describe it as more of a failure. Even among those who voted Leave, 37% say Brexit has been more of a failure.


    https://apple.news/AzLeoQnLOTTeWHbAgQMK3hg

    Brexit will become the most Pyrrhic of Pyrrhic victories for the Tories. The Westminster Brexit omertà will break. The pressure increases, gradually, incrementally, inexorably. Soon - it might be a decade away, but it’s coming - there will be a huge electoral reward to reap for the party bold enough to pivot whole-heartedly to the EU.

    I’m on holiday in Cornwall at the moment. Seriously thinking of retiring here in around three years time. The original plan had been, as a citizen of nowhere, to sell up and go to the south of Spain or Portugal, but that’s not really possible anymore. So it occurs to me that I’m helping to keep the net immigration figure higher than it would have been in the absence of Brexit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited May 2023
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    The political coverage on the news today continues to be in the main all about Braverman with Labour weighing in big time.

    The consequence is that Starmer's big announcement on the NHS has been relegated well down the pecking order.

    A tactical mistake. I think Labour should have concentrated on the NHS, not Braverman. People want to hear about policies for government that will affect their lives, not listen to more petty political point scoring.

    I thought Labours offering was stronger before they were pressured into unnecessarily releasing detailed promises.

    Speeches like today with detailed commitments and policy in them is just plain dum for an opposition party. I wouldn’t go into such detail. Starmer crashed and burned today because after giving the Tory spin machine the policy detail they have been demanding, he was then asked how he was going to pay for it. He had a disastrous “magic money trees don’t exist” moment.

    Utterly unnecessary mistakes and approach from Labour in my opinion.
    Starmer committed to get back, when he can, to the same service levels as the ones the Conservatives inherited from Labour, that the previous Labour government met and which the Conservative government misses by a country mile.

    And you expect people.to back the Conservative position on this?

    Labour's position relies on them selling the notion that Sunak wants the NHS to be starved of funds.

    It won't be sellable on the doorsteps. People are sensible enough to know that Covid needs have warped the NHS budget all out of shape. RIshi Sunak can sell his position on the NHS more easily than spend-spend-spend Labour.
    You think "It's fine for us not to provide a working healthcare system because Labour is spend, spend spend" is more sellable on the doorstep than "we will provide the healthcare system the Conservatives are committed to but totally fail to deliver, and which we previously did" ?
    Starmer needs to speak to Drakeford whose Wales NHS is every bit as bad as England's and indeed in some cases far worse

    This is our health board

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-65676411
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How many organisations is it now?

    Parliament
    The Met
    Other police forces
    The London Fire Brigade
    Other fire brigades
    The Army
    The Navy
    The TSSA union
    The NHS

    And now - the Methodists: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/methodist-church-not-seen-as-safe-for-women-leaked-report-finds-qrc0jzz22

    If only there were politicians who took this seriously. If only .....

    Most of South Korea, too.

    Gender divide leads to fewer Koreans dating
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/281_351298.html
    ...A thirty-something office worker surnamed Han, who lives in Pangyo, southern Seoul, has not dated men for over five years because she does not believe she could ever find the right person in Korea.

    An increase in media reports about crimes targeting women evokes real fears in her everyday life of stalking, sexual assault and even femicide. Han said that men in her age group would always say, "'Not all men are like that," or cast blame on the female victims.

    Han added that dating is no longer a part of her pursuit of happiness after realizing that almost all men she meets and knows fail to understand the discrimination and fear women face in Korea.

    Lee Bo-young, 33, an office worker in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province who has also stopped dating men by choice for nearly three years, thinks looking for Korean men of her age who understand and support gender equality is like "looking for a unicorn."

    "I see them (men of my age group) as equal, just as human beings. But they only see me as a person of the opposite sex ― a potential partner for sexual intercourse or possibly a mother of their children. That makes me extremely uncomfortable," she said...

    ...According to a Gallup survey released May 11, over half of unmarried Korean men and women in their 20s and 30s find each other difficult to relate to. Only about one out of three unmarried respondents said they were in a relationship.

    Most men said they want to socialize with women (56 percent), whereas only 27 percent of women felt the same way and 41 percent said they have no desire to interact with men. The surveyed included both married and single people.
    "In South Korea, the fertility rate — the average number of children born to a woman in her reproductive years — is now 0.78, according to figures released by the Korean government in February."

    NPR March 2023

    I know this will come across as Demented Woke Trans Neon Fascism, but have South Korean men considered a really radical strategy? Such as being nicer to women?
    It is the incel problem writ large.

    Korean women have adapted to the modern world rather faster than Korean men. Largely because life sucked for them previously.
    When your birth rate is that low, neither gender can claim to have “adapted”

    Korea is on the verge of extinction. Is that what Korean women want? I don’t think so
    The North Korean birth rate looks a lot healthier. Perhaps they’ll end up winning the Korean Cold War by default.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Prediction: “Bregret” will peak - at some insane level, around 70-80% - at the very same time as it becomes clear, for the first moment that there are serious Brexit benefits and Britain is better apart from the EU

    I am NOT claiming Brexit will never be reversed. With our dysfunctional polity that is quite possible. Eg we joined the EEC about four years before we discovered Thatcherism - and we nationally solved the economic issues which inspired us to join the EEC in the first place
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Total Fertility Rates have dropped dramatically across the world.

    Iran - home of the Ayatollahs and the religious police - has a TFR of just 1.7.

    While nutters worry about too many people, the real challenge we're all going to be facing is depopulation and an inbalance between the aged and the young.

    This will screw with elections even more as the number of retired voters will exceed the number of working ones.
This discussion has been closed.