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Punters rate Trump as a 23.8% chance to win WH2024 – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    I really like the Northumberland one.
    Cornwall is well known.

    Devon is a pathetic me-to attempt to mimic Cornwall. They need to get an otter or something in there.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It was the winner in a competition to replace this, the old one….
    A better blue, but reminds me of a castle from a NES game.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It was the winner in a competition to replace this, the old one….
    A better blue, but reminds me of a castle from a NES game.
    It looks like a prison entrance and three anchors. OK, so we have prisons, but no need to boast about it…
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I agree that Trump’s chances of winning are considerably in excess of 23.8%

    More like 40%

    I think both Biden and Trump are underpriced: it's hard to see any other nominees, and while Biden should be favorite, he should be a relatively narrow one.
    Yes, I think that is spot-on.
    Nooo, it's spot OFF as regards Trump. He's too short. 3.75 to regain the WH? C'mon!
    How confident are you that US republican primary voters are as rational as you are?
    Ha, 'rational' and 'GOP primary voters' in the same sentence? No, I'm glad my betting short is mainly on the WH not the Nom. He's no slam dunk for the Nom imo but as we speak he does look good for it. RDS is surely going to run, though, isn't he. Ebbing a little at the moment but it could be he has some flow to come. Can't stand the guy but that's not the point here.
    Never let your opinions of the candidate or the party influence your betting.
    Exactly right. The bias I fight in myself is to overrate the chances of something I'd hate to see. Some people are the opposite, naturally inclined to bet on what they want to happen. Don't know which is more common.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    I really like the Northumberland one.
    Cornwall is well known.

    Devon is a pathetic me-to attempt to mimic Cornwall. They need to get an otter or something in there.
    Ha, ha. Devon is now beaver country. You can find them on the River Otter.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    Lincolnshire’s flag is hideous.
    They desperately need a do-over.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Lincolnshire_flag.svg/1920px-Lincolnshire_flag.svg.png
    That's a Mondrian. Worth a fortune.

  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    I really like the Northumberland one.
    Cornwall is well known.

    Devon is a pathetic me-to attempt to mimic Cornwall. They need to get an otter or something in there.
    Ha, ha. Devon is now beaver country. You can find them on the River Otter.
    The idea, and county motto , that Devon is now "beaver country", may attract the wrong type of tourism..
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    kle4 said:

    My wife and I have been invited for our 6th covid vaccine in early June

    Additionally we had it quite badly last August

    I wasn't aware an early summer vaccine programme was going ahead

    Hope you'll go for it. Anedotally I know quite a few people not getting ones they've been invited for, and talking down vaccinations as a whole.

    I fear we have to relearn that vaccines do a lot of good all over again.
    Yes - it is at our local surgery and we will attend

    Indeed having experienced it we are grateful for the vaccines
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    pigeon said:

    ping said:

    pigeon said:

    Well...

    A well-connected Tory police and crime commissioner triggered two different police investigations into political opponents in recent weeks, Sky News can reveal.

    Steve Turner, PCC for Cleveland, was attempting to become a Tory councillor in Redcar in the Tees Valley, in addition to his existing £73,300 role overseeing the area's police service.

    During the campaign, Mr Turner twice alleged crimes were committed and triggered investigations by his local force.


    https://news.sky.com/story/tory-crime-commissioner-triggered-two-police-investigations-into-political-opponents-during-local-elections-bid-12879194

    I think the democratisation of policing was a disaster.

    The main reason for the pcc system was to shift blame away from the home office / home sec / PM / party in govt and direct anger elsewhere.

    It was cooked up in a different era, an austerity era. And the Cameroons were personally vulnerable on crime (prior hard drug use etc). This was one of the lessons they’d learned from the major years. Liberals get whipsawed when they go “tough on crime”

    Solution? Make it someone else’s problem. And slash the HO budget as much as you can get away with.

    The tories, facing electoral oblivion back in 2019, were forced into ditching austerity for the police - making the justification for the PCC system largely redundant.

    Nobody votes in the stupid elections anyway, and everyone still blames the “government”/party in government/PM/Home Secretary (delete as appropriate), for the inevitable fuck ups / lack of police etc etc.
    And yet we may predict with confidence that the PCCs will still be around in a hundred years' time. Having created another load of expensive and useless sinecures for over-promoted local councillors, what future Government is going to dare - or, indeed, feel any real motivation - to get rid of them?

    Of course, PCCs are potentially only the beginning. Imagine what'll happen if Starmer gets the opportunity to replace the Lords and actually follows through on it. He's hardly going to create an upper house with any more ability to challenge the Commons than the one that presently exists, now is he? Instead of a talking shop full of sundry ex-MPs, crossbench worthies and bishops who are only eligible for attendance fees and travel allowances, we'll get a talking shop consisting of three or four hundred more over-promoted local councillors, all picking up about eighty grand a year and probably doing a less effective job of scrutinising legislation than the ramshackle chamber we have now.

    At the end of the day, it's all about jobs for the boys. Again.
    The acid test of its suitability is whether Zac Goldsmith will still have a seat
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    Techne is averagely bad, Omnisis back to the days of Liz Truss.

    Techne has Labour on 45%, Conservative on 28% and the LDs on 11% so fits pretty well into the current polling pattern. Omnisis, which is probably as much an outlier as Redfield & Wilton was on Monday, just looks awful for the Conservatives - 51-24-10.

    Just for fun, that's a 19.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat. That takes us to Harwich & Essex North, the 274th most marginal Conservative seat, where Labour requires a 19.4% swing to oust Bernard Jenkin. That would leave the Conservatives with fewer than 100 MPs and while not the most extreme of extinction events, would be the worst Conservative performance since 1832 on both votes cast and seats won.

    So, two huge outliers at either end of the week it seems with other pollsters keeping the Labour lead in the high teens.

    If you add the Labour+LibDem+Green in Monday's R&W you get 61. That's not a million miles from the 66 aggregate you get with today's Omnisis.

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    DougSeal said:

    Lovely piece on my friend Daniel Gould who was in my year at college and made his living betting on Eurovision before his untimely death four years ago -

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-65388335

    Thank you for sharing that. I don't follow Eurovision betting too closely, but I was glued to Gould's Sofabet during the X Factor. Some of his X Factor pieces had me in stitches, such a clever and witty man.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Labour needs to leave constitutional reform alone.
    It’s a massive time sink.

    And nobody wants or needs votes for 16 and 17 year olds.
  • Options
    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Was it Omnisis that got the Locals spot on?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I agree that Trump’s chances of winning are considerably in excess of 23.8%

    More like 40%

    I think both Biden and Trump are underpriced: it's hard to see any other nominees, and while Biden should be favorite, he should be a relatively narrow one.
    Yes, I think that is spot-on.
    Nooo, it's spot OFF as regards Trump. He's too short. 3.75 to regain the WH? C'mon!
    How confident are you that US republican primary voters are as rational as you are?
    Ha, 'rational' and 'GOP primary voters' in the same sentence? No, I'm glad my betting short is mainly on the WH not the Nom. He's no slam dunk for the Nom imo but as we speak he does look good for it. RDS is surely going to run, though, isn't he. Ebbing a little at the moment but it could be he has some flow to come. Can't stand the guy but that's not the point here.
    Never let your opinions of the candidate or the party influence your betting.
    It is absolutely fine to let opinions of the candidates and their capabilities, influence betting far in advance of an election, just don't do it in the run up to an election.
    Well, now really- because you might miss some big value.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023
    I would like votes for all mature animals, personally. My old cat and dog are old and wise.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited May 2023
    Joey Essex emigrates from Essex to Dubai after break in (plus the threat of higher taxes from a likely incoming Labour government no doubt, he was a Boris fan )

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/22324710/joey-essex-dubai-essex-mansion-break-in/
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319
    edited May 2023

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,598
    County flags are really crests. They’re not separate nations except Cornwall.

    In this light Kent and Essex are decent. Ancient, well known in county cricket, don’t attempt to be anything more than county crests. No mock nationhood.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited May 2023
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
    Spoilsport.

    Prompted by the Yorkshire Party.

    I still mark you down for dissing Wiltshire for not recognising the Great Bustard (which they now breed on the Salisbury Plain) and the stipes representing the chalk downland of the area)
    Cookie said:


    On topic. What a beautiful flag.

    I’m now on PB Dave for 3rd too. 🙂

    It's one of the better ones.
    You can see all of the county flags here. https://britishcountyflags.com/english-county-flags/

    For the edification of pb.com, I shall rank them from best to worst.


    1) Cornwall (a proper flag, this. Not too fussy and wouldn't look the least bit daft as a national flag. Attractive and unusual colour combination.)
    2) Kent (admirably simple and a nice image)
    3) Devon (again, simple, elegant, quite convincing as a country flag)
    4) Essex (bold, slightly aggressive)
    5) Cheshire (I originally had this as top, which was a little partisan. I've tried to be more neutral about it. But I genuinely do like the colour combination and the overall effect.)
    6) Somerset (simple and distinctive – loses marks for red and yellow – though there is sadly quiet a lot of red and yellow in subsequent designs)
    7) Warwickshire (not just a bear, but a bear with, I don’t know, some sort of coat rack)
    8) Yorkshire
    9) Middlesex (nice flag, but clearly copied from Essex)
    10) Northumberland (if you must do red and yellow do it simply)
    11) Dorset (ditto)
    12) Surrey (well this is bold and interesting, at least. Reminiscent of Croatia’s football kit)
    13) Staffordshire (I like the layout and the emblem – would have been higher with a nicer colour scheme than red and yellow)
    14) Suffolk
    15) Westmorland
    16) Lancashire
    17) Durham
    18) Derbyshire (fairly nice design – but blue and light green is even uglier than red and yellow. And if there is a white or yellow border around the green cross they should be bold enough to show it)
    19) Gloucestershire (again, loses points for the blue/green)
    20) Northamptonshire (brown and yellow is no better than red and yellow)
    21) Worcesterhire (I like neither the colour scheme nor the wiggly lines, and pears are silly, but the sum is actually more pleasing than the parts)
    22) Leicestershire
    23) Berkshire (looks a bit more like an illustration from a child’s storybook than a flag)
    24) Shropshire (Rather frighteningly busy but an agreeable enough overall impression)
    25) Cumberland
    26) Lincolnshire
    27) Cambridgehire (possibly the dullest flag of the lot, but not ugly as such)
    28) Nottinghamshire (loses points for Nottinghamshire’s irritating persistent obsession with Robin Hood, who is just as associated with several other counties – it is the baddy who came from Nottingham)
    29) Buckinghamshire
    30) Hertfordshire
    31) Herefordshire (much, much too much brown)
    32) Hampshire
    33) Wiltshire (I’m not sure what those stripes are doing, not what that thing in the middle is)
    34) Oxfordshire (far, far too busy – looks like it’s been designed by committee)
    35) Huntingdonshire (quite simple, but also quite stupid)
    36) Rutland
    37) Sussex (I quite like the blue and yellow. But six tiny birds in a triangle?)
    38) Norfolk (this is just plain uninspiring, and looks like someone creature has walked across it).
    39) Bedfordshire (far too much going on, and none of it good)
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10591/the-yorkshire-party-for-3rd-place-in-wakefield-politicalbetting-com/p7
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    kle4 said:

    My wife and I have been invited for our 6th covid vaccine in early June

    Additionally we had it quite badly last August

    I wasn't aware an early summer vaccine programme was going ahead

    Hope you'll go for it. Anedotally I know quite a few people not getting ones they've been invited for, and talking down vaccinations as a whole.

    I fear we have to relearn that vaccines do a lot of good all over again.
    There is also an issue with accessibility. As the cohorts of people eligible for the vaccines are progressively narrowed (I think we're now just down to over-75s, adults in care homes and a few fairly small groups of people with immunity disorders and such like,) so the numbers of centres that are vaccinating are being shrunk down and down.

    Possibly not a problem if you live in a large city with decent public transport, but in the rest of the country you may be faced with a lengthy journey that becomes impractical if you don't have a car. It's no good imploring people to go and get yet another jab if the only "local" venue left where you can get one is fifteen miles away in some village hall, where the available public transport links to get to it consist of about one very unreliable bus that is only timetabled to run every third Tuesday.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,598

    Labour needs to leave constitutional reform alone.
    It’s a massive time sink.

    And nobody wants or needs votes for 16 and 17 year olds.

    With one exception, which Nandy is all over but the others not interested: tax devolution. That could unlock proper levelling up.

    I am pushing this one hard to anyone who will listen. The US and Switzerland show the way.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
    Some are OK.
    I’m not super excited by the Hampshire one.

    Britain has some great (maybe the best in the world, actually) graphic designers, but they’re obvs not working on these flags.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023
    Back on topic, and seeking to explain the very latest polls, could it be that the latest kerfuffle over the Coronation arrests has actually harmed the Tories even more ?

    The Tories being seen as both the party of the Establishment, and the one that's passed the new laws, ofcourse..
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Andy_JS said:

    Dialup said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 51% (+3)
    CON: 24% (-3)
    LDM: 10% (+3)
    RFM: 6% (=)
    GRN: 4% (-2)
    SNP: 3% (-1)

    Via @Omnisis, 11-12 May.
    Changes w/ 4-5 May.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1657035671540838403

    30 point lead. Incoming.

    No need for SKS fans to explain.
    How do you explain what’s happening? What’s driving it. This Tory poll slide began a week before last weeks voting.
    My test is when a government starts looking ugly. Grimm's fairy tales ugly.It means the zeitgeist has changed.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    HYUFD said:

    Joey Essex emigrates from Essex to Dubai after break in (plus the threat of higher taxes from a likely incoming Labour government no doubt, he was )

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/22324710/joey-essex-dubai-essex-mansion-break-in/

    Joey Jumeirah now surely?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576
    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
    Spoilsport.

    Prompted by the Yorkshire Party.

    I still mark you down for dissing Wiltshire for not recognising the Great Bustard (which they now breed on the Salisbury Plain) an the stipes representing the chalk downland of the area)
    Cookie said:


    On topic. What a beautiful flag.

    I’m now on PB Dave for 3rd too. 🙂

    It's one of the better ones.
    You can see all of the county flags here. https://britishcountyflags.com/english-county-flags/

    For the edification of pb.com, I shall rank them from best to worst.


    1) Cornwall (a proper flag, this. Not too fussy and wouldn't look the least bit daft as a national flag. Attractive and unusual colour combination.)
    2) Kent (admirably simple and a nice image)
    3) Devon (again, simple, elegant, quite convincing as a country flag)
    4) Essex (bold, slightly aggressive)
    5) Cheshire (I originally had this as top, which was a little partisan. I've tried to be more neutral about it. But I genuinely do like the colour combination and the overall effect.)
    6) Somerset (simple and distinctive – loses marks for red and yellow – though there is sadly quiet a lot of red and yellow in subsequent designs)
    7) Warwickshire (not just a bear, but a bear with, I don’t know, some sort of coat rack)
    8) Yorkshire
    9) Middlesex (nice flag, but clearly copied from Essex)
    10) Northumberland (if you must do red and yellow do it simply)
    11) Dorset (ditto)
    12) Surrey (well this is bold and interesting, at least. Reminiscent of Croatia’s football kit)
    13) Staffordshire (I like the layout and the emblem – would have been higher with a nicer colour scheme than red and yellow)
    14) Suffolk
    15) Westmorland
    16) Lancashire
    17) Durham
    18) Derbyshire (fairly nice design – but blue and light green is even uglier than red and yellow. And if there is a white or yellow border around the green cross they should be bold enough to show it)
    19) Gloucestershire (again, loses points for the blue/green)
    20) Northamptonshire (brown and yellow is no better than red and yellow)
    21) Worcesterhire (I like neither the colour scheme nor the wiggly lines, and pears are silly, but the sum is actually more pleasing than the parts)
    22) Leicestershire
    23) Berkshire (looks a bit more like an illustration from a child’s storybook than a flag)
    24) Shropshire (Rather frighteningly busy but an agreeable enough overall impression)
    25) Cumberland
    26) Lincolnshire
    27) Cambridgehire (possibly the dullest flag of the lot, but not ugly as such)
    28) Nottinghamshire (loses points for Nottinghamshire’s irritating persistent obsession with Robin Hood, who is just as associated with several other counties – it is the baddy who came from Nottingham)
    29) Buckinghamshire
    30) Hertfordshire
    31) Herefordshire (much, much too much brown)
    32) Hampshire
    33) Wiltshire (I’m not sure what those stripes are doing, not what that thing in the middle is)
    34) Oxfordshire (far, far too busy – looks like it’s been designed by committee)
    35) Huntingdonshire (quite simple, but also quite stupid)
    36) Rutland
    37) Sussex (I quite like the blue and yellow. But six tiny birds in a triangle?)
    38) Norfolk (this is just plain uninspiring, and looks like someone creature has walked across it).
    39) Bedfordshire (far too much going on, and none of it good)
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10591/the-yorkshire-party-for-3rd-place-in-wakefield-politicalbetting-com/p7
    And you missed out the island last time, as well. Tsk.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,195
    Not only Jolyolyon writing books and getting excoriating reviews these days: Bad Al Campbell has a new one out, and The Times is not amused:

    https://archive.ph/slOeW
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Also a conversation we have every few months.

    In my personal opinion, Warrington has no right to be considered in Cheshire. No right at all.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
    Some are OK.
    I’m not super excited by the Hampshire one.

    Britain has some great (maybe the best in the world, actually) graphic designers, but they’re obvs not working on these flags.
    Hampshire is mine, and I both like it and have one.

    Tread carefully!
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    HYUFD said:

    Joey Essex emigrates from Essex to Dubai after break in (plus the threat of higher taxes from a likely incoming Labour government no doubt, he was a Boris fan )

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/22324710/joey-essex-dubai-essex-mansion-break-in/

    That's a disaster for the country; what a loss.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
    Some are OK.
    I’m not super excited by the Hampshire one.

    Britain has some great (maybe the best in the world, actually) graphic designers, but they’re obvs not working on these flags.
    Hampshire is mine, and I both like it and have one.

    Tread carefully!
    That’s why I noted it.
    I just think it’s a bad design, sorry.

    I work in a broader design-y industry and I have strong opinions about such things.

    A lot of these flags were adopted very recently, and…they’re just not very good.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850

    Good evening

    There is a definite negative shift in the polls against the conservatives and I would put it down to the terrible local election results highlighting just how unpopular they are

    They are tired and frankly looking defeated, and going into opposition is the best way for them to regroup as long as it is as a one nation conservative party otherwise many wilderness years beckon

    Having said that all the serious issues will still be present and Starmer/ Labour will face many hard years ahead as there are no simple and easy answers

    Evening, Big G :smile:

    I wouldn't disagree with a word of that - recent experience suggests however parties which lose power after a long period are like supertankers in their ability to turn in a different direction.

    I don't see from where this damascene conversion to One Nation-style politics originates - presumably once Sunak leaves, the likes of Braverman, Dowden, Badenoch and A.N Other will fight over the ruins like the proverbial bald men over a comb. It may take another big defeat to end the spell of Johnsonian populism and see new strands of thinking emerge or re-emerge.

    I'd argue the Badenoch episode in the Commons illustrates the main problem - the contempt of power. The longer a party stays in power, the more used to the trappings it gets, the less it feels itself to be accountable and the more it believes it can ignore the mechanisms of that accountability.

    Britain is, I think we'd agree, a conservative country with a respect for convention and traditional ways. Governing parties get into trouble when they no longer appear to be respecting those conventions and traditions.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    Dialup said:

    Was it Omnisis that got the Locals spot on?

    Yes

  • Options
    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Hampshire crest is decent
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited May 2023

    Labour needs to leave constitutional reform alone.
    It’s a massive time sink.

    And nobody wants or needs votes for 16 and 17 year olds.

    Tinkering is fine, there are some pretty quick fixes which could improve a lot without mucking about (an attendance requirement for the Lords and delay from Commons to Lords appointment for a start). But it's a waste of political capital to go big, as it would open up a hell of a can of worms.

    If they cannot even agree on a model for local government don't piss about nationally.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump still has a strong chance of winning the GOP nomination, however his chances of winning back swing voters and Independents in the general election are falling by the day

    Let's hope so.

    For god's sake, and ours, Biden better not collapse (literally or figuratively).
    However; in my ignorance of USA elections I looked at polling.

    Here it is:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election


    If the polling is meaningful (no idea) and if winning the poll overall means you might win the presidency (which all seems a bit random) then with the polling as it is now you would say Trump is not far short of even money, if you assume (as I am doing) that he is the candidate.

    So is the 23% shot on account of the legal/criminal obstacles?

    The other point is this: in a normal country you can see how the public might be fooled by a depraved fascist narcissist once, but not twice. Is there real evidence that the USA follows this logic? The polling suggests maybe not. This is not a market I am entering.
    I would say that polling points to - assuming it's Biden v Trump - about a 60% chance of a Biden victory.

    Why?

    Because Don't Knows tend to break for the status quo, and because the Republicans underperformed the opinion polls in 2022.

    Back in mid 2019, the Dems were coming off a very strong set of Congressional elections, and were leading in every poll, and often by big margins.

    But Trump got a lot of the Don't Knows back, and ended up (relatively) close to Biden.

    I'd expect something (in reverse) to happen this time. I'd expect Biden to benefit from collecting some Don't Knows, and there to be a modest amount of Swing Back. I also think that Trump is a drag on the Republican Party. Yes, he gets his base out (and the Republicans can't win without his base), but there's no evidence that he's any less toxic than he was.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Wales is due to reduce from 30 to 20 throughout from September
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Also a conversation we have every few months.
    Better than some other topics!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319

    The UK is currently trialling an innovative combination of building no homes, opening the borders, raising taxes, and letting public services rot.

    The party which has done this is then going to ask a coalition of social conservatives and free marketeers to vote for it next year.


    https://twitter.com/sashworthhayes/status/1656959143729590272?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Sunak needs to be careful that he doesn't go full technocrat because he might not get any votes at all.

    He needs to deliver but he needs to deliver for his base.

    About 40% of the electorate are default centre-right at the moment, and certainly haven't gone anywhere. He should be getting them but he's not bothering and neither are they.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    edited May 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    If we didn’t have a labour shortage we could bring back the guy with the red flag
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,144
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    This nutcase will be demanding each car has a man with a red flag in front of it next.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    If we didn’t have a labour shortage we could bring back the guy with the red flag
    Nah, the police would arrest him.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
    Do you mean a dough ring?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
    Some are OK.
    I’m not super excited by the Hampshire one.

    Britain has some great (maybe the best in the world, actually) graphic designers, but they’re obvs not working on these flags.
    Hampshire is mine, and I both like it and have one.

    Tread carefully!
    That’s why I noted it.
    I just think it’s a bad design, sorry.

    I work in a broader design-y industry and I have strong opinions about such things.

    A lot of these flags were adopted very recently, and…they’re just not very good.
    I like it's regalism and how striking it is.

    I definitely identity with it.

    I identify with the Union Flag more, but I am also proud of Hampshire- my county.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
    But US states are the same.
    There is no obvious reason why people's emotional loyalty should reflect economic geography.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,319
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    People will soon remember why they detest Labour when it tries to socially engineer, nanny and reshape society to its ideology, sneers or tries to actively undermine anything British, raises taxes even further - don't believe a word of the current pledges - and empties the public purse at the same time.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    If we didn’t have a labour shortage we could bring back the guy with the red flag
    Nah, the police would arrest him.
    The Red Flag could be used to "lock on" to a car's wheels, or disrupt the smooth passage of traffic in any such similar or related way, for instance.

    We should all be aware of those kind of dangers and head them off in advance.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,598
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    It’s a reasonable point, except…

    Pause a moment and tot up all the mad ideas the Tories have put forward in the last 13 years.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    edited May 2023
    stodge said:

    Good evening

    There is a definite negative shift in the polls against the conservatives and I would put it down to the terrible local election results highlighting just how unpopular they are

    They are tired and frankly looking defeated, and going into opposition is the best way for them to regroup as long as it is as a one nation conservative party otherwise many wilderness years beckon

    Having said that all the serious issues will still be present and Starmer/ Labour will face many hard years ahead as there are no simple and easy answers

    Evening, Big G :smile:

    I wouldn't disagree with a word of that - recent experience suggests however parties which lose power after a long period are like supertankers in their ability to turn in a different direction.

    I don't see from where this damascene conversion to One Nation-style politics originates - presumably once Sunak leaves, the likes of Braverman, Dowden, Badenoch and A.N Other will fight over the ruins like the proverbial bald men over a comb. It may take another big defeat to end the spell of Johnsonian populism and see new strands of thinking emerge or re-emerge.

    I'd argue the Badenoch episode in the Commons illustrates the main problem - the contempt of power. The longer a party stays in power, the more used to the trappings it gets, the less it feels itself to be accountable and the more it believes it can ignore the mechanisms of that accountability.

    Britain is, I think we'd agree, a conservative country with a respect for convention and traditional ways. Governing parties get into trouble when they no longer appear to be respecting those conventions and traditions.
    I agree and I have no idea where the conservative party will be post GE 24, but at my wife and my ages, we are grareful for all our blessings and the years, even decades, to resolve the deep seated problems in the UK are hardly going to feature too much for us
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Wales is due to reduce from 30 to 20 throughout from September
    The fact that the Welsh government is pushing it through is a decent indication that its stupid!
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,734
    I realise everybody hates the lieutenancy areas/ceremonial counties (I love them), but whatever you think of them you have to admit that the banner of a Lord/Lady-Lieutenant is absolutely awesome.




    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Flag_of_a_Lord_Lieutenants.svg/800px-Flag_of_a_Lord_Lieutenants.svg.png?20230313143225

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_a_Lord_Lieutenants.svg
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    The UK is currently trialling an innovative combination of building no homes, opening the borders, raising taxes, and letting public services rot.

    The party which has done this is then going to ask a coalition of social conservatives and free marketeers to vote for it next year.


    https://twitter.com/sashworthhayes/status/1656959143729590272?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Sunak needs to be careful that he doesn't go full technocrat because he might not get any votes at all.

    He needs to deliver but he needs to deliver for his base.

    About 40% of the electorate are default centre-right at the moment, and certainly haven't gone anywhere. He should be getting them but he's not bothering and neither are they.
    I think this is fair comment. I'm inclined to look kindly on what would probably be called technocratic government, but at the moment they look to be approaching a perfect storm - they're not delivering much general competence (the one success is sorting out the NI issue), but also either deliberately annoying their base (not cutting taxes) or upsetting them through not being able to deliver (boats etc).
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    Whereas with the Tories it's not bonkers MPs putting forward daft ideas that will be ignored by the leadership; it's the government. (Latest example: let's repeal all EU laws by the end of the year!).
    Or, perhaps, "let's stop all disruptive protest", while defining very poorly, and with dangerously vague and wide parameters, what exactly "disruptive protest" is, for instance..
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I agree that Trump’s chances of winning are considerably in excess of 23.8%

    More like 40%

    Wow. I'll give you tons better than that. I'll lay you @ 11/4 if you want.

    Your 4 against my 11. Do you have 4 of anything you can spare for when you lose?
    As so often you’re the one talking sense on this. He’s having to pay compensation to a woman he sexually assaulted, and that will allow him to win over the floating voters he would need? Poppycock!
    Thank you! People really are doing too much tree and not enough wood on this one. I've rarely seen a worse 11/4 bet.

    #unelectabletrump
    So let's look at the woods, and from the American side.

    We hear a lot about the problems surrounding Trump but we don't hear so much about Biden's and that is skewing the betting.

    Biden is facing increasingly serious questions over potential payoffs surrounding him and his family. Not only has he got the House on his back with an investigation but there are also now several whistleblowers in the IRS and FBI asking for Congressional protection and who have come forward to say that the corruption allegations were suppressed. The questions are multiplying to the point where the White House is now blocking reporters from attending briefings for the questions they keep asking about the allegations. The NY Post, Fox and now the WSJ are pushing the stories daily. Ok, not your cup on tea on here but they get read and it's a daily drip. That is not the only potentially damaging story for Biden but we will leave it at that.

    Biden's poll ratings are poor. Trump's are worse but, for someone touted on here by some as one of the best US Presidents ever, they are not great. And that is before the immigration crisis which (again) is now rearing its head.

    You also then have the social media phenomenon that is Joe Rogan, while not a Trump fan and often critical, increasingly laying into Biden as too old and essentially senile. Musk is now in charge of Twitter.

    Meanwhile, the GOP post-the 2022 elections has finally decided to go full in on mail in voting and to copy the Democrat techniques. When the GOP did that in CA post-the 2018 losses, their performance improved.

    Then let's look at the individual states. North Carolina, the most vulnerable GOP state, looks increasingly - on their recent elections - turning more Red. Meanwhile, with the possible exception of Michigan, all the other 2020 Biden state gains are very much in play plus Nevada. If 45,000 people in the swing states had voted Trump instead of Biden, Trump would have won the EC. It doesn't take that many

    Trump should be around 2/1. It's a two horse race in a deeply divided country and where the independents don't feel enthused about either candidate.
    I'm getting some spirit of Mr Ed here. He used to crunch me with this sort of artful 'looks objective but is actually quite slanted' deep diving.

    You seem to giving him the nomination. I'm not. I have that as a 50/50, him or someone else. Maybe 60/40 in his favour. Then if he is the nominee I rate his chance in the general at about 25%. He'll need something special. A rock in the pond. Because the fundamentals are he simply doesn't have enough support outside his base.

    Hence why I think 11/4 is too short let alone your 2/1. What a chasm there is between us on this. One of us must be wrong. Let's see how it pans out.
  • Options
    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    No bonkers ideas from the Tories. Oh no.

    It was Labour that crashed the economy last September.

    That’s the problem with the Tories. They always run out of other people’s money to spend.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    It does seem perilously close to the old gag about how increased speeds means more risk means more deaths, so if we care about cutting deaths speed limits should be set to 5mph on the motorway.

    What? You care about getting somewhere sooner over lives?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Wales is due to reduce from 30 to 20 throughout from September
    The fact that the Welsh government is pushing it through is a decent indication that its stupid!
    20mph can be sensible near schools and similar locations but uniformly across Wales is unnecessary

    But then Drakeford has cancelled all road building projects in Wales including the 3rd Menai crossing despite Holyhead's new free port status
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Also a conversation we have every few months.

    In my personal opinion, Warrington has no right to be considered in Cheshire. No right at all.
    Which is fair enough.
    But I rather wish it wasn't a matter of opinion but of generally agreed definitions.
    I'd even be prepared not to get my way on what should be where in exchange for an agreement that henceforth, this is it for at least the next thousand years.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    edited May 2023

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    Whereas with the Tories it's not bonkers MPs putting forward daft ideas that will be ignored by the leadership; it's the government. (Latest example: let's repeal all EU laws by the end of the year!).
    Just because the conservatives have put forward daft ideas, it does not mean labour need to compete
  • Options
    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I’m glad at least finally the Tories are acknowledging they vote for a party with daft policies.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,735
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    It does seem perilously close to the old gag about how increased speeds means more risk means more deaths, so if we care about cutting deaths speed limits should be set to 5mph on the motorway.

    What? You care about getting somewhere sooner over lives?
    https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/safety-and-security/road-safety/vision-zero-for-london
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137
    edited May 2023
    K
    TimS said:

    County flags are really crests. They’re not separate nations except Cornwall.

    In this light Kent and Essex are decent. Ancient, well known in county cricket, don’t attempt to be anything more than county crests. No mock nationhood.

    Kent was, actually and factually, a separate nation.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kent

    As was Essex but not as good.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    DougSeal said:

    K

    TimS said:

    County flags are really crests. They’re not separate nations except Cornwall.

    In this light Kent and Essex are decent. Ancient, well known in county cricket, don’t attempt to be anything more than county crests. No mock nationhood.

    Kent was, actually and factually, a separate nation.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kent

    As was Essex but not as good.
    Not with that flag, it wasn’t.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    edited May 2023
    Regarding Trump; I would say that he is just symbolic of a wider cultural and political polarisation, which is fuelled by the left as much as the right. With the exception of the Jan 6th events, I find it hard to get too outraged by Trump, because it is not too difficult to find things that are equally or even more stupid amongst the 'woke' left, particularly since 2020. Regarding the 'sexual abuser' civil court finding, you don't need to look too far to find evidence of hypocrisy, for instance the same people who express outrage about this appear to ignore other claims against 'progressive' politicians when they are seen as assets to their tribe.

    I believe that the best way to start to deal with all of this is to not get sucked in to one side, and just try and weigh each issue up, as it presents itself. I would prefer Biden to win, but if Trump wins, then so be it.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,176
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
    Spoilsport.

    Prompted by the Yorkshire Party.

    I still mark you down for dissing Wiltshire for not recognising the Great Bustard (which they now breed on the Salisbury Plain) and the stipes representing the chalk downland of the area)
    Cookie said:


    On topic. What a beautiful flag.

    I’m now on PB Dave for 3rd too. 🙂

    It's one of the better ones.
    You can see all of the county flags here. https://britishcountyflags.com/english-county-flags/

    For the edification of pb.com, I shall rank them from best to worst.


    1) Cornwall (a proper flag, this. Not too fussy and wouldn't look the least bit daft as a national flag. Attractive and unusual colour combination.)
    2) Kent (admirably simple and a nice image)
    3) Devon (again, simple, elegant, quite convincing as a country flag)
    4) Essex (bold, slightly aggressive)
    5) Cheshire (I originally had this as top, which was a little partisan. I've tried to be more neutral about it. But I genuinely do like the colour combination and the overall effect.)
    6) Somerset (simple and distinctive – loses marks for red and yellow – though there is sadly quiet a lot of red and yellow in subsequent designs)
    7) Warwickshire (not just a bear, but a bear with, I don’t know, some sort of coat rack)
    8) Yorkshire
    9) Middlesex (nice flag, but clearly copied from Essex)
    10) Northumberland (if you must do red and yellow do it simply)
    11) Dorset (ditto)
    12) Surrey (well this is bold and interesting, at least. Reminiscent of Croatia’s football kit)
    13) Staffordshire (I like the layout and the emblem – would have been higher with a nicer colour scheme than red and yellow)
    14) Suffolk
    15) Westmorland
    16) Lancashire
    17) Durham
    18) Derbyshire (fairly nice design – but blue and light green is even uglier than red and yellow. And if there is a white or yellow border around the green cross they should be bold enough to show it)
    19) Gloucestershire (again, loses points for the blue/green)
    20) Northamptonshire (brown and yellow is no better than red and yellow)
    21) Worcesterhire (I like neither the colour scheme nor the wiggly lines, and pears are silly, but the sum is actually more pleasing than the parts)
    22) Leicestershire
    23) Berkshire (looks a bit more like an illustration from a child’s storybook than a flag)
    24) Shropshire (Rather frighteningly busy but an agreeable enough overall impression)
    25) Cumberland
    26) Lincolnshire
    27) Cambridgehire (possibly the dullest flag of the lot, but not ugly as such)
    28) Nottinghamshire (loses points for Nottinghamshire’s irritating persistent obsession with Robin Hood, who is just as associated with several other counties – it is the baddy who came from Nottingham)
    29) Buckinghamshire
    30) Hertfordshire
    31) Herefordshire (much, much too much brown)
    32) Hampshire
    33) Wiltshire (I’m not sure what those stripes are doing, not what that thing in the middle is)
    34) Oxfordshire (far, far too busy – looks like it’s been designed by committee)
    35) Huntingdonshire (quite simple, but also quite stupid)
    36) Rutland
    37) Sussex (I quite like the blue and yellow. But six tiny birds in a triangle?)
    38) Norfolk (this is just plain uninspiring, and looks like someone creature has walked across it).
    39) Bedfordshire (far too much going on, and none of it good)
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10591/the-yorkshire-party-for-3rd-place-in-wakefield-politicalbetting-com/p7
    Wiltshire is a bustard on a field of grass and chalk, representing the chalk down lands of the county.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023
    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
    Spoilsport.

    Prompted by the Yorkshire Party.

    I still mark you down for dissing Wiltshire for not recognising the Great Bustard (which they now breed on the Salisbury Plain) and the stipes representing the chalk downland of the area)
    Cookie said:


    On topic. What a beautiful flag.

    I’m now on PB Dave for 3rd too. 🙂

    It's one of the better ones.
    You can see all of the county flags here. https://britishcountyflags.com/english-county-flags/

    For the edification of pb.com, I shall rank them from best to worst.


    1) Cornwall (a proper flag, this. Not too fussy and wouldn't look the least bit daft as a national flag. Attractive and unusual colour combination.)
    2) Kent (admirably simple and a nice image)
    3) Devon (again, simple, elegant, quite convincing as a country flag)
    4) Essex (bold, slightly aggressive)
    5) Cheshire (I originally had this as top, which was a little partisan. I've tried to be more neutral about it. But I genuinely do like the colour combination and the overall effect.)
    6) Somerset (simple and distinctive – loses marks for red and yellow – though there is sadly quiet a lot of red and yellow in subsequent designs)
    7) Warwickshire (not just a bear, but a bear with, I don’t know, some sort of coat rack)
    8) Yorkshire
    9) Middlesex (nice flag, but clearly copied from Essex)
    10) Northumberland (if you must do red and yellow do it simply)
    11) Dorset (ditto)
    12) Surrey (well this is bold and interesting, at least. Reminiscent of Croatia’s football kit)
    13) Staffordshire (I like the layout and the emblem – would have been higher with a nicer colour scheme than red and yellow)
    14) Suffolk
    15) Westmorland
    16) Lancashire
    17) Durham
    18) Derbyshire (fairly nice design – but blue and light green is even uglier than red and yellow. And if there is a white or yellow border around the green cross they should be bold enough to show it)
    19) Gloucestershire (again, loses points for the blue/green)
    20) Northamptonshire (brown and yellow is no better than red and yellow)
    21) Worcesterhire (I like neither the colour scheme nor the wiggly lines, and pears are silly, but the sum is actually more pleasing than the parts)
    22) Leicestershire
    23) Berkshire (looks a bit more like an illustration from a child’s storybook than a flag)
    24) Shropshire (Rather frighteningly busy but an agreeable enough overall impression)
    25) Cumberland
    26) Lincolnshire
    27) Cambridgehire (possibly the dullest flag of the lot, but not ugly as such)
    28) Nottinghamshire (loses points for Nottinghamshire’s irritating persistent obsession with Robin Hood, who is just as associated with several other counties – it is the baddy who came from Nottingham)
    29) Buckinghamshire
    30) Hertfordshire
    31) Herefordshire (much, much too much brown)
    32) Hampshire
    33) Wiltshire (I’m not sure what those stripes are doing, not what that thing in the middle is)
    34) Oxfordshire (far, far too busy – looks like it’s been designed by committee)
    35) Huntingdonshire (quite simple, but also quite stupid)
    36) Rutland
    37) Sussex (I quite like the blue and yellow. But six tiny birds in a triangle?)
    38) Norfolk (this is just plain uninspiring, and looks like someone creature has walked across it).
    39) Bedfordshire (far too much going on, and none of it good)
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10591/the-yorkshire-party-for-3rd-place-in-wakefield-politicalbetting-com/p7
    Wiltshire is a bustard on a field of grass and chalk, representing the chalk down lands of the county.
    Tell it to Cookie! They marked it 33rd on the list, for shame.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    The UK is currently trialling an innovative combination of building no homes, opening the borders, raising taxes, and letting public services rot.

    The party which has done this is then going to ask a coalition of social conservatives and free marketeers to vote for it next year.


    https://twitter.com/sashworthhayes/status/1656959143729590272?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Sunak needs to be careful that he doesn't go full technocrat because he might not get any votes at all.

    He needs to deliver but he needs to deliver for his base.

    About 40% of the electorate are default centre-right at the moment, and certainly haven't gone anywhere. He should be getting them but he's not bothering and neither are they.
    I'd be amazed if there weren't tax cuts in advance of the next election, and the mooted revival of Help to Buy makes complete sense from a political POV. The Conservatives can pretend to care about the young, whilst the policy will actually have the effect of jacking up house prices again to the benefit of the minted elderly.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    People will soon remember why they detest Labour when it tries to socially engineer, nanny and reshape society to its ideology, sneers or tries to actively undermine anything British, raises taxes even further - don't believe a word of the current pledges - and empties the public purse at the same time.
    You may be overlooking the possibility that very few people actively like anything much about either of the parties capable of forming a government. It is quite possible that detesting Labour will become the strongest emotion around; at the moment there are very good reasons for disliking the Tories substantially more. They really have tried harder to be hated, execrated and unloved.

    BTW the public purse Labour are going to empty currently has minus £2trillion in it. So it's not an easy task.

    As to their current pledges, I agree largely. They mostly won't do them. Good. How are the Tory pledges doing?

  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,144

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    People will soon remember why they detest Labour when it tries to socially engineer, nanny and reshape society to its ideology, sneers or tries to actively undermine anything British, raises taxes even further - don't believe a word of the current pledges - and empties the public purse at the same time.
    I have no doubt that will happen. But they have earned the chance to rule as the Tories have lost it.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited May 2023

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.

    If so, it may be because the Weald was basically an impenetrable island, largely cut off from the main thoroughfares, and possibly therefore a redoubt of Celtic DNA.

    Local surnames seem pretty Saxon though.
  • Options
    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I will be happy to consider voting Tory if Labour mess up and the Tories go back to appealing to people under the age of 90.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,418
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
    But US states are the same.
    There is no obvious reason why people's emotional loyalty should reflect economic geography.
    Though isn't the problem that English counties (if you're being purist about them) have too many anomalies where the borders run through the middle of places? So it's clearly dumb to separate Christchurch (historically Hampshire) from Bournemouth and Poole (Dorset). Hence the Heathite Counties that nobody really liked. And Greater London, which some people moan about as a concept to this day. Especially in Romford.

    It's where the "counties are like US states" analogy breaks down; there are places where the lived geography crosses state lines, but it's less of an issue. Partly because the USA is bigger and emptier, but also becuase it was mapped at a time that people could build big bridges. So the two sides of a river were usually seen as the same place.

    On the other hand, if we could agree that the elected politician in charge of a country or similar was called a Count, I'd be cool with that.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,423
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.

    Top three:

    1. Northumberland
    2. Cornwall
    3. Devon

    Pick this up, by all means - but I can't let this slip by without commenting that we did all this about a year ago. It was quite fun. And indeed I ranked them from best to worst. If I knew how the search facility worked I would link to the conversation.
    Spoilsport.

    Prompted by the Yorkshire Party.

    I still mark you down for dissing Wiltshire for not recognising the Great Bustard (which they now breed on the Salisbury Plain) and the stipes representing the chalk downland of the area)
    Cookie said:


    On topic. What a beautiful flag.

    I’m now on PB Dave for 3rd too. 🙂

    It's one of the better ones.
    You can see all of the county flags here. https://britishcountyflags.com/english-county-flags/

    For the edification of pb.com, I shall rank them from best to worst.


    1) Cornwall (a proper flag, this. Not too fussy and wouldn't look the least bit daft as a national flag. Attractive and unusual colour combination.)
    2) Kent (admirably simple and a nice image)
    3) Devon (again, simple, elegant, quite convincing as a country flag)
    4) Essex (bold, slightly aggressive)
    5) Cheshire (I originally had this as top, which was a little partisan. I've tried to be more neutral about it. But I genuinely do like the colour combination and the overall effect.)
    6) Somerset (simple and distinctive – loses marks for red and yellow – though there is sadly quiet a lot of red and yellow in subsequent designs)
    7) Warwickshire (not just a bear, but a bear with, I don’t know, some sort of coat rack)
    8) Yorkshire
    9) Middlesex (nice flag, but clearly copied from Essex)
    10) Northumberland (if you must do red and yellow do it simply)
    11) Dorset (ditto)
    12) Surrey (well this is bold and interesting, at least. Reminiscent of Croatia’s football kit)
    13) Staffordshire (I like the layout and the emblem – would have been higher with a nicer colour scheme than red and yellow)
    14) Suffolk
    15) Westmorland
    16) Lancashire
    17) Durham
    18) Derbyshire (fairly nice design – but blue and light green is even uglier than red and yellow. And if there is a white or yellow border around the green cross they should be bold enough to show it)
    19) Gloucestershire (again, loses points for the blue/green)
    20) Northamptonshire (brown and yellow is no better than red and yellow)
    21) Worcesterhire (I like neither the colour scheme nor the wiggly lines, and pears are silly, but the sum is actually more pleasing than the parts)
    22) Leicestershire
    23) Berkshire (looks a bit more like an illustration from a child’s storybook than a flag)
    24) Shropshire (Rather frighteningly busy but an agreeable enough overall impression)
    25) Cumberland
    26) Lincolnshire
    27) Cambridgehire (possibly the dullest flag of the lot, but not ugly as such)
    28) Nottinghamshire (loses points for Nottinghamshire’s irritating persistent obsession with Robin Hood, who is just as associated with several other counties – it is the baddy who came from Nottingham)
    29) Buckinghamshire
    30) Hertfordshire
    31) Herefordshire (much, much too much brown)
    32) Hampshire
    33) Wiltshire (I’m not sure what those stripes are doing, not what that thing in the middle is)
    34) Oxfordshire (far, far too busy – looks like it’s been designed by committee)
    35) Huntingdonshire (quite simple, but also quite stupid)
    36) Rutland
    37) Sussex (I quite like the blue and yellow. But six tiny birds in a triangle?)
    38) Norfolk (this is just plain uninspiring, and looks like someone creature has walked across it).
    39) Bedfordshire (far too much going on, and none of it good)
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10591/the-yorkshire-party-for-3rd-place-in-wakefield-politicalbetting-com/p7
    Ooh, well found! That thread was just as much fun as this one.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,790
    The anger amongst Remainers is likely to go through the roof as immigration rockets and not a peep from the right wing press who essentially drove the leave vote by their relentless anti EU nationals campaign .

    Brexit couldn’t even deliver the apparent one thing many Leavers had wanted or were told they wanted as in lower net-migration!

    Millions lost their freedom of movement rights , many dreams were shattered and for what .

    Not a single Leave promise has been met.


  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I agree that Trump’s chances of winning are considerably in excess of 23.8%

    More like 40%

    I think both Biden and Trump are underpriced: it's hard to see any other nominees, and while Biden should be favorite, he should be a relatively narrow one.
    Yes, I think that is spot-on.
    Nooo, it's spot OFF as regards Trump. He's too short. 3.75 to regain the WH? C'mon!
    How confident are you that US republican primary voters are as rational as you are?
    Ha, 'rational' and 'GOP primary voters' in the same sentence? No, I'm glad my betting short is mainly on the WH not the Nom. He's no slam dunk for the Nom imo but as we speak he does look good for it. RDS is surely going to run, though, isn't he. Ebbing a little at the moment but it could be he has some flow to come. Can't stand the guy but that's not the point here.
    Never let your opinions of the candidate or the party influence your betting.
    It is absolutely fine to let opinions of the candidates and their capabilities, influence betting far in advance of an election, just don't do it in the run up to an election.
    That's a good point. As you get closer to an election analytics become more valuable and impressionistic big picture less so.

    If come next Sept Trump is the GOP nominee and looks competitive in the polls in key states I'll have to ditch my view that he's unelectable!
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,775
    Dialup said:

    I will be happy to consider voting Tory if Labour mess up and the Tories go back to appealing to people under the age of 90.

    I can't imagine that the Tories currently appeal very greatly to those over the age of 90.

    The Tories only rag of hope is that they are not the other lot. And that's doing ok in that the LDs are hopeless, and Labour are, at best, questionable.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525
    edited May 2023

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.

    All that celtic-type DNA has to do to be around in Kent now is stick around in the area from before about 450CE, watch the Romans depart and the Angles, Saxons, Jutes. Vikings, Norman/French and all that follows come and go and make a song and dance about running things and keep calm and carry on. This happened and happens more than movers and shakers think.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    I like our county flags.
    Some are OK.
    I’m not super excited by the Hampshire one.

    Britain has some great (maybe the best in the world, actually) graphic designers, but they’re obvs not working on these flags.
    Hampshire is mine, and I both like it and have one.

    Tread carefully!
    That’s why I noted it.
    I just think it’s a bad design, sorry.

    I work in a broader design-y industry and I have strong opinions about such things.

    A lot of these flags were adopted very recently, and…they’re just not very good.
    I like it's regalism and how striking it is.

    I definitely identity with it.

    I identify with the Union Flag more, but I am also proud of Hampshire- my county.
    Luv Hampshire,
    Luv the king,
    Luv me old school,

    Hate deer,
    Hate bookshops,
    Hate higher tax rate

    Casino Bouquet

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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,561

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, the US electorate usually give two terms to their Presidents, the exceptions being the hapless Carter and Bush Sr (who was a third term Republican President).

    Indeed, the last time that a party lost the White house after a single term led to three terms for the other guys.

    Worth noting that Carter himself only won in the first place in large part because he was up against the unelected, bumbling Ford.

    Of course, Trump was himself another exception.
    Gerald Ford did NOT lose in 1976 due to being non-elected or bumbling, though these were NOT pluses.

    Rather, he lost due to Watergate, as exacerbated by his pardoning Richard Nixon author and "unindicted coconspirator" of Watergate.

    Jerry Ford had a challenging presidency (including now forgotten pandemic) with many a misstep forced and unforced, political and personal. However, at end of 1976 campaign he was gaining on Jimmy Carter, due to doubts about "Jimmy Who?" and (dare I say) swingback.
    I think you give several examples there of bumblingness.

    Ford was indeed gaining on Carter by polling day 1976 - having been 30 points behind at one stage - but his 'not pluses' were probably enough to tip the difference. (I'd tie in his unelectedness with his handling of Watergate)

    More crucially, he was largely nominated because he was the incumbent. Put another way, would he have beaten Reagan in a primary fight were he not the sitting president? Almost certainly not. And would Carter have beaten Reagan in an open contest? Equally, very probably no (assuming Carter got that far, with a different primary dynamic). Put simply, Carter was in no small way an accidental president, and a Watergate legacy, notwithstanding his skill in gaining the nomination in the first place. Normality only really resumed in 1980.
    In a close election result - as 1976 turned out to be - ANYTHING can be cited as crucial, with varying degrees of justification.

    As for incumbency, EVERY eligible POTUS has a distinct advantage when seeking their party's nomination. For example, Jimmy Carter himself in 1980.

    And re: normality, note that 1992 featured the significant 3-party candidacy of Ross Perot. Today almost forgotten, but back in the day a key reason - arguably THE reason - for defeat of George Bush the Elder.

    How normal is THAT? Well, since 1860, a significant 3-party candidate about every dozen years or so; since 1860:
    1880, 1896, 1912, 1924, 1948, 1968, 1980, 1992, 2000

    Some might have different list, but above works for me. AND suggests that (yet) another significant 3-party is due, even overdue?
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,503
    Two big questions on the Republican nomination odds: (To which I do not have the answer.)

    Will our TV networks give the same overwhelming coverage to Trump that they did in 2016? So far, the answer seems to be yes, judging by the CNN townhall. Which, it turns out was not nearly as good for Trump as it appeared on TV:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-at-trump-town-hall-says-many-in-audience-were-disgusted-or-bewildered-by-ex-president/ar-AA1b4G43?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=41502926ab65463e9f2f407f1aa9a67c&ei=15

    Second, will any of his opponents have the money, and the smarts, to run an effective TV campaign against Trump in the early states? (DeSantis has the money, but I am not sure about the smarts.)

    (What kind of campaign would I recommend? It would have two themes, calling Trump a liar, over and over and over. And telling story after story of people who had lost by following, or trusting, Trump. Money in Trump University, health in his poor response to COVID, prison time in January 6th, and psychological damage from his attacks on women.)
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.

    If so, it may be because the Weald was basically an impenetrable island, largely cut off from the main thoroughfares, and possibly therefore a redoubt of Celtic DNA.

    Local surnames seem pretty Saxon though.
    Names don't always help. They change while DNA doesn't.

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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    I think we can all agree that that would be a backwards move.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    I think we can all agree that that would be a backwards move.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.

    There is no Kent, only occupied Wales.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    Soon it will be reversing only.
    I think we can all agree that that would be a backwards move.
    I think we should put the suggestion behind us.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
    But US states are the same.
    There is no obvious reason why people's emotional loyalty should reflect economic geography.
    Though isn't the problem that English counties (if you're being purist about them) have too many anomalies where the borders run through the middle of places? So it's clearly dumb to separate Christchurch (historically Hampshire) from Bournemouth and Poole (Dorset). Hence the Heathite Counties that nobody really liked. And Greater London, which some people moan about as a concept to this day. Especially in Romford.

    It's where the "counties are like US states" analogy breaks down; there are places where the lived geography crosses state lines, but it's less of an issue. Partly because the USA is bigger and emptier, but also becuase it was mapped at a time that people could build big bridges. So the two sides of a river were usually seen as the same place.

    On the other hand, if we could agree that the elected politician in charge of a country or similar was called a Count, I'd be cool with that.
    Our Counts are Earls. The clue is in their wives being Countesses. That's the English language for you.

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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,775
    nico679 said:

    The anger amongst Remainers is likely to go through the roof as immigration rockets and not a peep from the right wing press who essentially drove the leave vote by their relentless anti EU nationals campaign .

    Brexit couldn’t even deliver the apparent one thing many Leavers had wanted or were told they wanted as in lower net-migration!

    Millions lost their freedom of movement rights , many dreams were shattered and for what .

    Not a single Leave promise has been met.


    Angry remainers. Are they like Anna Soubry?

    You're completely right that Brexit has been a shitshow, but there wasn't ever a unified approach to what it should or could be. I voted to leave, but I'm damned sure very few people even considered the factors that made me do so.

    As a remainer I don't think you have anybody to be angry at. The Brexit voters aren't a something. They've dispersed and gone their own separate ways.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The Arizona flag is one ugly mf

    I love it. Distinctive, colourful, simple.

    And believe you me, there are a lot worse flags in the Union

    DOES YOUR FLAG FAIL? Grey Grades The State Flags!

    (I like the base rules set for the video - keep it simple, distinct, no tiny details, don'g go overboard on colours unless you know what you're doing, try to be symbolic, do not use words, and definitely don't write your name on it)

    New Mexico, Utah are good. Wyoming's almost is.

    State pride seems to be pretty good in the USA, so I'm surprised so many just stuck with their state seal on a blue background.
    I actually think the US state flags are all pretty good, with the possible exception of Colorado.

    The English county flags, most of which have been designed and adopted in the past several years, are sometimes pretty awful.
    I do, like the chap in the video, kind of mark down what might be reasonable designs (on the basis some of the seals are good), due to being too similar to one another if you were lining them up next to each other.

    Many of the county flags are a bit busy or dizzying in colour, but I think that makes them more distintive and appealing.
    Of course few are aware of them and fewer use them, good or bad, as it is a bit late to try to develop (or overdevelop) a sense of county identiy the way US States can. Outside of Yorkshire anyway.

    But i fly my bustard flag with pride.
    You missed one…
    Also hideous. The attempt to create an Isle of Wight shaped diamond just doesn’t work. It looks like a 90s tv identity, presumably for a regional news programme.
    It's a little too lacking in colour compared to the others. But it is simple to identify, it's symbolism of the island and waves is obvious the instant it is seen - a bit more effort than 'eh, just use the seal'.

    Which, again, is weird, since americans care more about their states by and large than even the denizens of the Isle of Wight I would guess.
    British people used to care about their counties. But 50 years of titting about with county council boundaries have muddied the water beyond people's ability to care.
    And I can see the argument for rational local government. But I can also see the argument for local government reflecting geography that people care about and identify with.
    And I also wish I could use words like "Cheshire" and it be clear and unambiguous exactly where I mean.
    Problem being that counties do not align with geogrpahy that people care about and identify with. Wiltshire is a case in point - by and large it's a donut, with a series of towns on the edge and emptiness in the middle, and the cluster of towns close together in the West look more to Bath than they would to the sole city, Salisbury.
    But US states are the same.
    There is no obvious reason why people's emotional loyalty should reflect economic geography.
    Though isn't the problem that English counties (if you're being purist about them) have too many anomalies where the borders run through the middle of places? So it's clearly dumb to separate Christchurch (historically Hampshire) from Bournemouth and Poole (Dorset). Hence the Heathite Counties that nobody really liked. And Greater London, which some people moan about as a concept to this day. Especially in Romford.

    It's where the "counties are like US states" analogy breaks down; there are places where the lived geography crosses state lines, but it's less of an issue. Partly because the USA is bigger and emptier, but also becuase it was mapped at a time that people could build big bridges. So the two sides of a river were usually seen as the same place.

    On the other hand, if we could agree that the elected politician in charge of a country or similar was called a Count, I'd be cool with that.
    38 counties, each headed by a sheriff.
    16 metros, each headed by a mayor.

    Align the police, health, and other boundaries to fit.

    Fund local government properly.
    But take social care provision, which has crowded out truly local activities, into central government’s responsibility.

    Next.
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    DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I do not feel that Brexit will ever be reversed.

    I think we will move closer to the Single Market over time but this will not involve full membership.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour MP calls for 10mph speed limit
    Rachael Maskell’s suggestion for residential areas dismissed by Conservatives as 'bonkers'"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

    This is exactly why people vote Conservative. It isn't through any love of the Conservative Party. It's because Labour MPs keep putting forward mad ideas like this.
    Whereas with the Tories it's not bonkers MPs putting forward daft ideas that will be ignored by the leadership; it's the government. (Latest example: let's repeal all EU laws by the end of the year!).
    Just because the conservatives have put forward daft ideas, it does not mean labour need to compete
    But they will if not stopped. They need to reverse now, and pledge to reform, not abolish, the Lords; to not give votes to 16 year olds. And they need to leave open to review European policy so as to allow at least the option of EFTA/EEA. So they need to drop quietly the current pledge not to have FOM. It will come back to haunt them.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,598

    I remember reading somewhere that there was a concentration of celtic-type DNA down in Kent way, for some reason.

    Arise, ancient Kentish ! From my point of view, more disappointingly, however, it's also very heavily Tory, though, or at least it has been up to now.

    Not necessarily forever. The road where my vineyard sits, in Pett Bottom, divides 2 council wards. On the West it’s Labour, on the east it’s Lib Dem. In the latest elections the Lib Dem got 84%. High North Downs, rural as you like. Constituency is Labour (Rosie).
This discussion has been closed.