He will always have Ireland, if only he could remember it.
Yay, at last, thank you, thank you. Like an anxious batsman I have been stuck on 99 off topics for months now. I have finally made my century! Today has not been wasted after all.
I got offtopicked the other day for a post that was (shock) on topic! It stuck out to me because roughly 0.1% of my posts are on topic, so why they chose that one is a mystery.
Fat fingers/scrolling on a touch screen device.
Yeah, I do that all the time. The Off-Topic button seems to be just where I put my thumb to scroll. I usually notice and un-Off-Topic the post but probably miss the odd instance.
Can't we just get rid of the off-topic button? It serves no useful purpose. If this leads to more inadvertent likes, then who will complain?
The main difference between a British and American blog/forum/message board is that on British ones it's normal to go off topic all the time and no-one minds. If you do it on an American forum you instantly get threatened with expulsion in puritanical language.
Fucking amazing interview with Prigozhin on dzen (kind of like a Russian reddit but not really). He really is a funny guy and uses rich language replete with criminal slang in a way that is rarely heard these days...
With great effort holding back the urge to post the "funny how" scene, I still have to ask: these days? When was the last time you were familiar with Russian criminal talk?
Criminal slang (fenya/blatnoy yazik) was very commonly heard in the cities even by non criminal elements and had a deep connection to Russian culture. It probably started going out of usage in the noughties as the Internet and globalisation encroached.
An oddly useful answer to a flippant request. Thank you.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Based on this, the Tories are flatlining, Labour still declining, and the Greens should become the biggest party by late Autumn. Is that how this works?
If you want a serious observation about it, Labour coming down could be related to the Lib Dem’s and Greens having pre locals uptick, with the campaigning and leaflets.
Is the LLG changing much.
Curtice big test for Labour is are they 10 points ahead in the locals, there are two measures, actual votes and then the adjusted figure that puts Labour up and Tories down, I presume Curtice means only latter. I am not saying he is wrong, but add the fluidness of the LLG to support each other is a pointer to next years GE as far as it can be measured.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
I have a good friend. Is around 78+/-. Has Parkinson's. Still totally on top of things, trustee of various charities, was very good value at dinner the other night. No doubt is gently declining, cutting down on activities, but you wouldn't necessarily notice in his company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
The low rise apartment blocks you see towards the centres of many European cities seem to work alright. That way you achieve a high housing density for those who like living in the bustle of the city, which also attracts service businesses, and you leave room for decently sized houses in the suburbs for people to move to later in life. Some of the most miserable places here are where tiny shoebox houses with stamp-sized, frequently unkempt gardens are crammed into packed monoculture developments, so that people are forced to live in cramped conditions, but the population density still isn't high enough to support local businesses.
This should be Keir’s great project. Homes Fit for the Hopeful.
New build homes are largely appalling. And the whole "executive homes for middle class people" lie is in itself a problem. And we end up with thrown together houses crushed in together, with gangs of bored kids making these estates hell for the majority. And that is when you then get gardens filled with rubbish etc etc. And the price of some of these houses!!!!
So yes, lets build medium density housing. Nice apartments where the developer hasn't fitted them with InfernoQwik panels. Its the solution that works basically everywhere else. Why not here?
The thing I find most frustrating about the new "executive home" developments (certainly around my way) is that they are miles away from the nearest amenities/services and seem to be solely designed around the idea that you can get in a car and drive in and out of them on a regular basis.
This seems to me to still be applying tired late 20th century thinking where car and commuter are king. It also makes these places soulless estates filled with bored teenagers.
Start up grants and rates rebates for small commercial, community and leisure spaces in these types of developments would work wonders for community cohesion, cutting unnecessary journeys and helping build small local enterprise.
Despite the recurring meme that Russia promotes Scottish secession, here's a proud Unionist pooping out Kremlin talking points. Won't be long before he's doing the whole 'Ukraine is actually part of Russia' schtik (unless he's sectioned first).
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
I agree with the sentiment, but I suspect you’ve lost most of the board already.
It seems to be case that the places that people WANT to live - think Paris, Amsterdam, the Upper West Side of Manhattan - are around six floors high and arranged in terraces, squares, and canals. Britain has its own domestic forms in London, Bath and Edinburgh.
We could do worse than ask AI to design a garden city, interlaced with canals, in the style of Robert Adam.
If people wanted to live like that I suspect they would be living like that.
Given that most people instead live in semis and detacheds then I suspect that they prefer to live like that.
This is a fallacy, as it implies we must all be content with the status quo.
It’s also, factually wrong in that only 42% of Britons live in detached or semi-detached housing.
Tory thinking in action!
England and Wales:
7.8 million households (31.5% of all households) were in semi-detached properties, up from 31.3% (7.3 million) in 2011 5.8 million (23.2%) were in detached properties, up from 5.3 million (22.7%) in 2011
What's more is that those who do live in terraced or flats are often doing so because they cannot afford a semi or a detached.
Having experience of London or New York is not always a good guide to the wider countries.
I was talking stock, you are talking households. I was also talking the UK as a whole, to the extent that might make a difference.
Your last sentence is of course a classic of the patronising, little England kind. A mentality that is suffocating the country.
Having been disproven on the facts you accuse me of making a patronising remark and then produce a patronising remark of your own.
But enough of this banter lets deal with the reality.
And the reality is that great housing masterplans of property type X to be built in location Y are not going to happen.
Instead we're going to continue as we have for decades in building a variety of types of new property in lots of locations all around the country.
We'll have some high density flats in city centres, some brownfield redevelopment, some new estates alongside existing suburbia and a few new expensive houses in the rural areas.
And people will move to the type of property and the type of area that suits their lifestyle and their finances.
Now perhaps this is 'suffocating' southern England but if so its an auto erotic asphyxiation that they seem to enjoy.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
He will always have Ireland, if only he could remember it.
Yay, at last, thank you, thank you. Like an anxious batsman I have been stuck on 99 off topics for months now. I have finally made my century! Today has not been wasted after all.
I got offtopicked the other day for a post that was (shock) on topic! It stuck out to me because roughly 0.1% of my posts are on topic, so why they chose that one is a mystery.
Fat fingers/scrolling on a touch screen device.
Yeah, I do that all the time. The Off-Topic button seems to be just where I put my thumb to scroll. I usually notice and un-Off-Topic the post but probably miss the odd instance.
Can't we just get rid of the off-topic button? It serves no useful purpose. If this leads to more inadvertent likes, then who will complain?
The main difference between a British and American blog/forum/message board is that on British ones it's normal to go off topic all the time and no-one minds. If you do it on an American forum you instantly get threatened with expulsion in puritanical language.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts. ...
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
I won't be cheering them on, but the balance of economic and military power in the Pacific is such that we cannot seriously influence events.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Sovereignty. The same as any other territory wanting to run its own affairs, colonial and post colonial history has any number of examples.
The only honest slogan that the Brexiteers could have used here would have been "Poorer, but Sovereign". Of course that wasn't what they campaigned on.
Do you support Scottish Independence?
If the Scots vote for it, then yes, obviously.
So, you think they should use the honest slogan "Poorer, but Sovereign" to secure that vote then?
I prefer the slogan, “Poorer, but more Sovereign in a way that is hard to measure objectively but is somehow felt (especially when reading the Daily Mail).”
My point is that people don't give a toss about economics when it aligns with their values.
Plenty of people who hate Brexit, and criticise it vehemently on economic grounds, are quite happy to acquiesce or tub-thumb for Scottish Independence where the economic case is far more tenuous.
Utter bollox, WTF do you know about economics in Scotland you halfwitted dunderheid.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
There are people who view historic wrongs as more important than contemporary wrongs.
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
I won't be cheering them on, but the balance of economic and military power in the Pacific is such that we cannot seriously influence events.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
We weren't talking our past. We were talking about this century, and the strategic challenge China poses to us all.
It's you who keeps trying to take us back - because you don't have the gumption to face up to it.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
We weren't talking our past. We were talking about this century, and the strategic challenge China poses to us all.
It's you who keeps trying to take us back - because you don't have the gumption to face up to it.
Rubbish. But when you start harping on about western human rights you should should look at how we treat the people with least power. It is our failings in Iraq and Afghanistan that erodes any moral authority we might imagine we have.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
We weren't talking our past. We were talking about this century, and the strategic challenge China poses to us all.
It's you who keeps trying to take us back - because you don't have the gumption to face up to it.
Rubbish. But when you start harping on about western human rights you should should look at how we treat the people with least power. It is our failings in Iraq and Afghanistan that erodes any moral authority we might imagine we have.
You are a coward, and quite limited intellectually.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
I've not seen that at all, though no doubts someone's said it.
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
I agree with the sentiment, but I suspect you’ve lost most of the board already.
It seems to be case that the places that people WANT to live - think Paris, Amsterdam, the Upper West Side of Manhattan - are around six floors high and arranged in terraces, squares, and canals. Britain has its own domestic forms in London, Bath and Edinburgh.
We could do worse than ask AI to design a garden city, interlaced with canals, in the style of Robert Adam.
If people wanted to live like that I suspect they would be living like that.
Given that most people instead live in semis and detacheds then I suspect that they prefer to live like that.
Plenty of people want to live in London. And can’t afford to.
Yes but only the nice bits of London. Cant imagine many people dream of living in Barking or Woolwich.
As you're here, I thought I should pull you up on your claim that there are 9 million women on antidepressants in the UK.
In the quarter to December 2022, the total number of people in England and Wales that took at least one antidepressant was 6.59m. This essentially makes your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants in the UK impossible: it would require that (a) all the 6.6m in England and Wales are women; and that (b) every woman in Scotland is on them.
A quick note to admit that you totally made up the numbers, or read them off your talking points sheet, would be great.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
all i see is people saying look how terrible China is to excuse any criticism of our past actions. ymmv
We weren't talking our past. We were talking about this century, and the strategic challenge China poses to us all.
It's you who keeps trying to take us back - because you don't have the gumption to face up to it.
Rubbish. But when you start harping on about western human rights you should should look at how we treat the people with least power. It is our failings in Iraq and Afghanistan that erodes any moral authority we might imagine we have.
Ancient history never was my strong point - but are we still occupying Iraq or Afghanistan?
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts. ...
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
I agree with the sentiment, but I suspect you’ve lost most of the board already.
It seems to be case that the places that people WANT to live - think Paris, Amsterdam, the Upper West Side of Manhattan - are around six floors high and arranged in terraces, squares, and canals. Britain has its own domestic forms in London, Bath and Edinburgh.
We could do worse than ask AI to design a garden city, interlaced with canals, in the style of Robert Adam.
If people wanted to live like that I suspect they would be living like that.
Given that most people instead live in semis and detacheds then I suspect that they prefer to live like that.
Plenty of people want to live in London. And can’t afford to.
Yes but only the nice bits of London. Cant imagine many people dream of living in Barking or Woolwich.
As you're here, I thought I should pull you up on your claim that there are 9 million women on antidepressants in the UK.
In the quarter to December 2022, the total number of people in England and Wales that took at least one antidepressant was 6.59m. This essentially makes your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants in the UK impossible: it would require that (a) all the 6.6m in England and Wales are women; and that (b) every woman in Scotland is on them.
A quick note to admit that you totally made up the numbers, or read them off your talking points sheet, would be great.
Thanks!
Thinking about it, if I was a Scottish woman married to a Cyber-Nat, who spent his evenings posting online, then maybe I'd find valium/xanax/prozac pretty attractive. So we do need to take that into account.
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
I agree with the sentiment, but I suspect you’ve lost most of the board already.
It seems to be case that the places that people WANT to live - think Paris, Amsterdam, the Upper West Side of Manhattan - are around six floors high and arranged in terraces, squares, and canals. Britain has its own domestic forms in London, Bath and Edinburgh.
We could do worse than ask AI to design a garden city, interlaced with canals, in the style of Robert Adam.
If people wanted to live like that I suspect they would be living like that.
Given that most people instead live in semis and detacheds then I suspect that they prefer to live like that.
Plenty of people want to live in London. And can’t afford to.
Yes but only the nice bits of London. Cant imagine many people dream of living in Barking or Woolwich.
As you're here, I thought I should pull you up on your claim that there are 9 million women on antidepressants in the UK.
In the quarter to December 2022, the total number of people in England and Wales that took at least one antidepressant was 6.59m. This essentially makes your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants in the UK impossible: it would require that (a) all the 6.6m in England and Wales are women; and that (b) every woman in Scotland is on them.
A quick note to admit that you totally made up the numbers, or read them off your talking points sheet, would be great.
Thanks!
This is from the nhs
Between January to March 2021:
there were 20.2 million antidepressant drugs prescribed, a 1% decrease from 20.5 million items in the previous quarter, and a 3% increase from 19.6 million items for the same quarter in 2019/20.
Thats an awful lot of people on antidepressants.
You are confusing monthly prescriptions with quarterly figures.
So alongside confirming that you aren't in the UK so don't know how UK prescriptions work - you also show that your reading comprehension and math skills aren't that great.
This land is next to the largest jobs catchment area in Europe, and one where house prices are crowding out the productive middle classes.
You could, literally, build a kind of “Dubai” here, and it would indeed be self-sustaining. It would need to be a massive project, though, and not one the British have much of a track record in.
For a start, you’d need to overcome the cultural snobbery that underpins much of British life.
The estuary seems an obvious opportunity. Water resources might be an issue, but then, Dubai. Would need 2 or 3 more river crossings to properly link up the economic zones North and South.
Some good potential viticultural land around there though, so that would need to be preserved.
Also: think big
Plan a Hong Kong style city with immense towers. Space for 2m people. Which can go up to 5m. Be ambitious. Aim for scale
I agree with the sentiment, but I suspect you’ve lost most of the board already.
It seems to be case that the places that people WANT to live - think Paris, Amsterdam, the Upper West Side of Manhattan - are around six floors high and arranged in terraces, squares, and canals. Britain has its own domestic forms in London, Bath and Edinburgh.
We could do worse than ask AI to design a garden city, interlaced with canals, in the style of Robert Adam.
If people wanted to live like that I suspect they would be living like that.
Given that most people instead live in semis and detacheds then I suspect that they prefer to live like that.
Plenty of people want to live in London. And can’t afford to.
Yes but only the nice bits of London. Cant imagine many people dream of living in Barking or Woolwich.
As you're here, I thought I should pull you up on your claim that there are 9 million women on antidepressants in the UK.
In the quarter to December 2022, the total number of people in England and Wales that took at least one antidepressant was 6.59m. This essentially makes your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants in the UK impossible: it would require that (a) all the 6.6m in England and Wales are women; and that (b) every woman in Scotland is on them.
A quick note to admit that you totally made up the numbers, or read them off your talking points sheet, would be great.
Thanks!
This is from the nhs
Between January to March 2021:
there were 20.2 million antidepressant drugs prescribed, a 1% decrease from 20.5 million items in the previous quarter, and a 3% increase from 19.6 million items for the same quarter in 2019/20.
Thats an awful lot of people on antidepressants.
Number of drugs prescribed != number of patients.
There's a pretty constant 3:1 ratio between prescriptions and patients. It's almost like they get new scrips monthly.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I think @Foxy gets up every day, goes to work, and does good for the people of the UK.
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
What's that got to do with your previous argument?
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
There are people who view historic wrongs as more important than contemporary wrongs.
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
One ray of hope amidst the drumbeat march of Chinese despotism is, indeed, that country's litany of serious socio-economic challenges. We're so busy worrying about all the things we're screwing up that it's very easy to forget that China is tumbling into the same demographic abyss as the West - its total fertility rate is comparable with that of the UK - when much of the country is still very under-developed. Shanghai might be as rich as Europe, but large tracts of China are subsistence agrarian backwaters with income levels more closely resembling those of sub-Saharan Africa. Nor are mooted government attempts to persuade urban youth to bang out more kids likely to come to much when, in common with other East Asian economies, young people appear both relatively disinterested in reproducing when kids will chew through all their disposable income, and frequently unable to afford to do so at all because of housing costs.
Combine this with the fact that China is not particularly welcoming of or attractive to economic migrants and its ceaseless ascendancy is far from a done deal.
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Just as a matter of interest - and ignoring your shaky grasp of statistics - what do you think the similar rates are for alcoholism in Russia?
According to the latest population estimates from the 2021 Census, published on 28 June 2022, this suggests 14.7% of the population in England — which totals 56.5 million people — received at least one prescription item for antidepressant drugs in 2021/2022.
15% of 70 million is 10.5 million people. The vast majority of people taking antidepressants are women. So im not far out.
How about a link?
Because those numbers do not match with the actual link I shared FROM THE NHS.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
There are people who view historic wrongs as more important than contemporary wrongs.
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
One ray of hope amidst the drumbeat march of Chinese despotism is, indeed, that country's litany of serious socio-economic challenges. We're so busy worrying about all the things we're screwing up that it's very easy to forget that China is tumbling into the same demographic abyss as the West - its total fertility rate is comparable with that of the UK - when much of the country is still very under-developed. Shanghai might be as rich as Europe, but large tracts of China are subsistence agrarian backwaters with income levels more closely resembling those of sub-Saharan Africa. Nor are mooted government attempts to persuade urban youth to bang out more kids likely to come to much when, in common with other East Asian economies, young people appear both relatively disinterested in reproducing when kids will chew through all their disposable income, and frequently unable to afford to do so at all because of housing costs.
Combine this with the fact that China is not particularly welcoming of or attractive to economic migrants and its ceaseless ascendancy is far from a done deal.
China isn't unstoppable, and faces challenges as you say, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up to it whilst it remains such a serious and dangerous geopolitical rival.
Shocking though that in a developed country such as the uk so many are on antidepressants. Clearly Uk life is making many miserable. It may be related to a lack of deeper meaning in peoples lives in an over materialistic secular society.
Dude
You're making up numbers.
Share the link to the UK census with the antidepressant figures you quoted, or be banned.
On topic: "Donald Trump: So if I had to do again, I would have done it with all I have to go through. Look, they say that Andrew Jackson was the most vilified person that it was. His wife died during this thing, and they said such horrible things. And he had a very tough presidency. He was a very good president. He was a great general and a good president. Abraham Lincoln, they say, was, you know, he had a civil war going on. All right. But Abraham Lincoln had was just vilified. He was. But now they say Trump got treated the worst of all because what they did is they came up with phony stuff Russia, Russia, Russia." source: https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-tells-mark-levin-he-got-treated-worse-than-vilified-abraham-lincoln/
From a friendly interview with Mark Levin. I think it shows that Trump is worried, and that he is slipping.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I think @Foxy gets up every day, goes to work, and does good for the people of the UK.
Sure he does. As do I. But that doesn't invalidate what I said about his attitudes, which are entirely backward looking and puritan.
To the extent he does look forward he doesn't mention Britain at all - just "the international community".
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I think @Foxy gets up every day, goes to work, and does good for the people of the UK.
Sure he does. As do I. But that doesn't invalidate what I said about his attitudes, which are entirely backward looking and puritan.
To the extent he does look forward he doesn't mention Britain at all - just "the international community".
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Just as a matter of interest - and ignoring your shaky grasp of statistics - what do you think the similar rates are for alcoholism in Russia?
The number of antidepressants prescribed in England rose by 5.1% in 2021/2022 compared with the previous year — the sixth annual increase in a row.
The latest increase means that the number of antidepressant items prescribed over the past six years has increased by 34.8%, from 61.9 million items in 2015/2016 to 83.4 million items in 2021/2022.
Figures published by NHS Business Services Authority (BSA) also showed an increase in the number of people prescribed antidepressants from 7.87 million people in 2020/2021 to 8.32 million people in 2021/2022.
According to the latest population estimates from the 2021 Census, published on 28 June 2022, this suggests 14.7% of the population in England — which totals 56.5 million people — received at least one prescription item for antidepressant drugs in 2021/2022.
But you do realise that this rather undercuts your point?
Most people who take antidepressants aren't on them long-term. Of the 8.3m who took one in 2022, only 6.6m had one in Q4. That suggests that most people had them for a short period, usually to deal with insomnia, and then stopped using them.
In the last quarter of 2022, there were 6.6m who who had an antidepressant prescription.
That's FAR from your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I have a good friend. Is around 78+/-. Has Parkinson's. Still totally on top of things, trustee of various charities, was very good value at dinner the other night. No doubt is gently declining, cutting down on activities, but you wouldn't necessarily notice in his company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
Has your friend been a stutterer since childhood ? I think such comparisons probably don’t mean much.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
Martin Jacques thinks the Chinese government are pacifists.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
The irony is that the Chinese are likely to win the 3rd Opium war.
And, there are plenty in the West who will cheer them all the way in the belief we deserve our just desserts.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
There are people who view historic wrongs as more important than contemporary wrongs.
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
One ray of hope amidst the drumbeat march of Chinese despotism is, indeed, that country's litany of serious socio-economic challenges. We're so busy worrying about all the things we're screwing up that it's very easy to forget that China is tumbling into the same demographic abyss as the West - its total fertility rate is comparable with that of the UK - when much of the country is still very under-developed. Shanghai might be as rich as Europe, but large tracts of China are subsistence agrarian backwaters with income levels more closely resembling those of sub-Saharan Africa. Nor are mooted government attempts to persuade urban youth to bang out more kids likely to come to much when, in common with other East Asian economies, young people appear both relatively disinterested in reproducing when kids will chew through all their disposable income, and frequently unable to afford to do so at all because of housing costs.
Combine this with the fact that China is not particularly welcoming of or attractive to economic migrants and its ceaseless ascendancy is far from a done deal.
China isn't unstoppable, and faces challenges as you say, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up to it whilst it remains such a serious and dangerous geopolitical rival.
Arguably, not only is China unstoppable but also that its peak power may have passed. As you mention, its fertility rate is on the way down but the Government can't as it were reverse the consequences as that would bring uncomfortable questions about whether the CCP is always right. However, there are many more fundamental issues. Youth unemployment is on the rise. The Chinese economy is unhealthily dependent on property. Many Chinese companies would be bust if looked at on western accounting standards. I would assume that Xi is also thinking that what goes for Russia's military (overhyped capabilities, so-called advanced weapons that don't work that well in practice, questionable capabilities of military leadership etc) also play for China's military. Meanwhile, the number of countries who are questioning whether it makes sense to do deals with China is increasing.
Shocking though that in a developed country such as the uk so many are on antidepressants. Clearly Uk life is making many miserable. It may be related to a lack of deeper meaning in peoples lives in an over materialistic secular society.
Dude
You're making up numbers.
Share the link to the UK census with the antidepressant figures you quoted, or be banned.
On topic: "Donald Trump: So if I had to do again, I would have done it with all I have to go through. Look, they say that Andrew Jackson was the most vilified person that it was. His wife died during this thing, and they said such horrible things. And he had a very tough presidency. He was a very good president. He was a great general and a good president. Abraham Lincoln, they say, was, you know, he had a civil war going on. All right. But Abraham Lincoln had was just vilified. He was. But now they say Trump got treated the worst of all because what they did is they came up with phony stuff Russia, Russia, Russia." source: https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-tells-mark-levin-he-got-treated-worse-than-vilified-abraham-lincoln/
From a friendly interview with Mark Levin. I think it shows that Trump is worried, and that he is slipping.
I think it shows he can't string two words together, but then we have always known that. Not sure how he gets treated worse than Lincoln?
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
That's a load of bat-shit from you, CR.
Nope, the bat-shit is from him; not me.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Just as a matter of interest - and ignoring your shaky grasp of statistics - what do you think the similar rates are for alcoholism in Russia?
Ah, is he one of those?
Far more subtle this time.
Unfortunately, @rcs1000 has just deleted his last response...
Shocking though that in a developed country such as the uk so many are on antidepressants. Clearly Uk life is making many miserable. It may be related to a lack of deeper meaning in peoples lives in an over materialistic secular society.
Dude
You're making up numbers.
Share the link to the UK census with the antidepressant figures you quoted, or be banned.
Your call.
Surely he was just quoting the population figures from the census? The census doesn't include questions about medication.
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Just as a matter of interest - and ignoring your shaky grasp of statistics - what do you think the similar rates are for alcoholism in Russia?
Ah, is he one of those?
Far more subtle this time.
Unfortunately, @rcs1000 has just deleted his last response...
I saw it and thought he might actually be posting it as an ironic joke.
On topic: "Donald Trump: So if I had to do again, I would have done it with all I have to go through. Look, they say that Andrew Jackson was the most vilified person that it was. His wife died during this thing, and they said such horrible things. And he had a very tough presidency. He was a very good president. He was a great general and a good president. Abraham Lincoln, they say, was, you know, he had a civil war going on. All right. But Abraham Lincoln had was just vilified. He was. But now they say Trump got treated the worst of all because what they did is they came up with phony stuff Russia, Russia, Russia." source: https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-tells-mark-levin-he-got-treated-worse-than-vilified-abraham-lincoln/
From a friendly interview with Mark Levin. I think it shows that Trump is worried, and that he is slipping.
I think it shows he can't string two words together, but then we have always known that. Not sure how he gets treated worse than Lincoln?
The thing is, as we know, Trump is not a normal politician, he exhibits his flaws and pathologies in public which virtually all other politicians try to hide as much as possible.
So, when I hear things like this shows Trump knows he is slipping, I put it at a discount because that it is his attitude today. Tomorrow, he could be punching the air. Or, to put simply, he has mood swings.
I have a good friend. Is around 78+/-. Has Parkinson's. Still totally on top of things, trustee of various charities, was very good value at dinner the other night. No doubt is gently declining, cutting down on activities, but you wouldn't necessarily notice in his company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
Has your friend been a stutterer since childhood ? I think such comparisons probably don’t mean much.
How many things are going to be excused on the account of his stutter? And, if it is all down to his childhood stutter, why didn't he show many of the characteristics he is showing now ten years ago?
If he has cognitive decline, then it is only fair to the electorate - and arguably the world - to be honestly appraised.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
I have a good friend. Is around 78+/-. Has Parkinson's. Still totally on top of things, trustee of various charities, was very good value at dinner the other night. No doubt is gently declining, cutting down on activities, but you wouldn't necessarily notice in his company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
Has your friend been a stutterer since childhood ? I think such comparisons probably don’t mean much.
How many things are going to be excused on the account of his stutter? And, if it is all down to his childhood stutter, why didn't he show many of the characteristics he is showing now ten years ago?
If he has cognitive decline, then it is only fair to the electorate - and arguably the world - to be honestly appraised.
‘Many things being excused’ ? I was merely questioning an implied diagnosis of Parkinson’s based upon ‘mannerisms’.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
It seems as though the Local Plans won't have a lot of power but it's often those which bring down local administrations when the electorate perceive what is being planned as not being in keeping with what is there.
That's the thing - Conservatives throw accusations of NIMBYism around at Liberal Democrats, Residents and others opposed to proposed developments but there's a world of difference between being opposed to housing (whichb no one is) and being opposed to high density developments on greenfield sites without adequate supporting infrastructure which seem to be more about maximising the profits of developers than providing sustainable local communities.
Many would also argue brownfield sites should be the starting point (in my part of the world that's really all there is) but of course we know that reduces developer profits because of the need to decontaminate or do additional preparatory work.
Supporting infrastructure such as schools, transport and GP surgeries also needs to be considered in order not to put unreasonable pressure on what's there and most larger developments should contain retail and other business opportunities to provide jobs for the new residents.
From an electoral point of view, and probably also an infrastructure and environmental one, surely the best option is to go really big in one of two places only. High density, hundreds of thousands of new units, proper infrastructure and services to go with them.
You only lose possibly a dozen or so of council seats in areas affected as opposed to hundreds across vast swathes of the country when you go for sprawling patchy development: an estate here, a new village there, the odd few houses in every community.
You get better value for money from concentrated public services: new hospital, new primary and secondary schools, train, tram and bus routes. And you get to retain 99% of the remaining green space in the rest of the country.
2 new cities, that’s what I’d go for. One somewhere like Cambridgeshire on the East Coast mainline, the other between Manchester and Sheffield along the NPR line. And of course the Anglesey metropolis with its preferential 15% corporate tax rate and tunnel to Ireland, but that can come later.
A new city of tower blocks in the Peak District national park.
Full marks for originality but fewer for practicality.
Actually the Manchester-Leeds axis is perhaps more promising. Somewhere near Halifax.
A problem being that Halifax is already there.
Unless you want to build on the moors you're not going to fit a new city in between Leeds and Manchester.
There’s lots of space
Ever heard of the Pennines ?
That's where the 'space' is.
Here’s a screenshot from Google maps of the area immediately around Halifax. Moorland is hello-brown, the green is farmland. There’s more green space further South and East too.
At reasonable densities you could easily get a city with the population of Sheffield there.
At higher densities you could pretty much get Kowloon plus Rio in there. Two cities unbothered about mountain obstacles.
The same is true of lots of other areas where people assume there is no space. We’ve only built on a fraction of usable land.
Or a bit south east of that and the area around Huddersfield/Dewsbury.
I've had a good smile at this afternoon's little brainstorm.
OK, so we want to build Hong Kong in Pennine Yorkshire. I think even from what I've seen of Hong Kong, the ultra dense bit is nestled in the mountains rather than atop them, and the land area of Hong Kong in total is about 1.5x the size of all West Yorkshire. Perhaps you could use the small valley plains and hilltop plateaux. A lot of Halifax is on a bit of a low plateau above the Hebble, and there's a decent plateau to the east of Halifax near the village of Southowram. The valley bottoms are pretty developed and a lot of the land either side, for example along the south bank of the Calder is steep escarpment to 300+m.
To fully use the land, the challenge is good city grade multi lane road and mass transit connectivity from plateau to valley to plateau because at present that connectivity (the side roads to Mount Tabor, for instance, or Salterhebble Hill into Halifax, or the A road routes down the hill into Sowerby Bridge are interesting).
All fantasy, of course, but that's the nub of the challenge and reflects across much of this part of the world.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
No, it is you and your fellow travellers who hate your own country, always going on about it going to the dogs, being too woke or too vegan, and that all of its institutions have gone wrong, infested by cultural Marxists in some dark occult conspiracy.
I am proud of a country that has a long tradition of dissent from aristocratic and establishment institutions. A history that goes back as far as Pelagius, via the Lollards, Puritans, Non-Conformists, Knox, the Levellers, the Diggers, Owen, Paine, Cobbett, Owen, Ned Ludd, Captain Swing, the Chartists, Keir Hardie, the country that gave sanctuary to Marx and Hugo, and hundreds of further examples to recent times.
Radical thought is a great British tradition and one we should be proud of. It is that questioning of authority that keeps our vested interests in line and keeps away the tyranny that befalls so many other countries.
I am as equally proud of Britain and its history as yourself. We just disagree over what aspects to choose to be proud of.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why the Germans are wankers too.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I think @Foxy gets up every day, goes to work, and does good for the people of the UK.
Nah, today I have walked my dog, done my garden, drank tea, made a chilli and plan to go to a critical football game. I have done bugger all for anyone.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
That's a load of bat-shit from you, CR.
Nope, the bat-shit is from him; not me.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
You perfectly entitled to say what you like.
But your policing of others’ discourse could fairly be characterised as batshit.
I have a good friend. Is around 78+/-. Has Parkinson's. Still totally on top of things, trustee of various charities, was very good value at dinner the other night. No doubt is gently declining, cutting down on activities, but you wouldn't necessarily notice in his company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
Has your friend been a stutterer since childhood ? I think such comparisons probably don’t mean much.
How many things are going to be excused on the account of his stutter? And, if it is all down to his childhood stutter, why didn't he show many of the characteristics he is showing now ten years ago?
If he has cognitive decline, then it is only fair to the electorate - and arguably the world - to be honestly appraised.
"why didn't he show many of the characteristics he is showing now ten years ago?"
IF you'd been observing Joe Biden over the last half-century, then you'd know that he has ALWAYS been a gaff factory.
Myself, perhaps not as much as #46, in gaffs OR achievements.
Though as time's winged chariot has progressed, we've both experienced our share of senioritis, or geezer moments, or whatever you wanna call them.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Yes but theyve gone seriously off the boil of late.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
That's a load of bat-shit from you, CR.
Nope, the bat-shit is from him; not me.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
You perfectly entitled to say what you like.
But your policing of others’ discourse could fairly be characterised as batshit.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
That's a load of bat-shit from you, CR.
Nope, the bat-shit is from him; not me.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
You perfectly entitled to say what you like.
But your policing of others’ discourse could fairly be characterised as batshit.
And, it wouldn't have happened if he'd engaged with the subject matter rather than Whatabouting with Britain's history instead, as he so often does.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
While you DO have a point, it's beside the point here.
Which is that TSE's non-stop Francophobia, is as much a part of his comic schtick, as were non-stop insults for Don Rickles, and non-stop self-putdowns for Rodney Dangerfield, and . . .
Only 30% of the individuals who had experienced poor mental health said that they found antidepressants very effective, while 17% said that they were not effective at all.
Just as a matter of interest - and ignoring your shaky grasp of statistics - what do you think the similar rates are for alcoholism in Russia?
Ah, is he one of those?
Far more subtle this time.
Unfortunately, @rcs1000 has just deleted his last response...
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Yes but theyve gone seriously off the boil of late.
They made one huge mistake.
Like Sturgeon, Merkel’s reputation has collapsed rapidly.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
That's a load of bat-shit from you, CR.
Nope, the bat-shit is from him; not me.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
You perfectly entitled to say what you like.
But your policing of others’ discourse could fairly be characterised as batshit.
And, it wouldn't have happened if he'd engaged with the subject matter rather than Whatabouting with Britain's history instead, as he so often does.
He has only himself to blame.
Strange, the only history that I have mentioned outside my last post was the Opium Wars in one sentence.
I don't think the Opium Wars require a lot of dissecting to conclude that the British Empire had a very dark side.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Yes but theyve gone seriously off the boil of late.
They have once or twice in the past too, but always seem to bounce back.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Yes but theyve gone seriously off the boil of late.
They made one huge mistake.
Like Sturgeon, Merkel’s reputation has collapsed rapidly.
Indeed, two thirds of the seats in the Assembly reversing the 2018 result. It's been a long political road for Oscar Temaru, the founder and President of the Tavini Party since he founded the party (which was then known as the Polynesian Liberation Front) in the 1970s. They've shared power in coalitions but this is the first time they've won an outright majority.
The question is where do they go from here and how will France react?
Anti-independence parties however, won the majority of votes, so a referendum is not going to be won, any time soon.
TBH, I can't see why any overseas territory would wish to break from France. The deal they get is incredible.
Agreed, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
Pride has no price.
It's basically a choice between living in a first world nation or a third world kleptocracy. It's surprising how many would prefer the latter.
Mauritius is not a third world kleptocracy. Nor is Singapore. Nor is Brunei
Interestingly, though, none of those have human rights to what we'd call Western standards.
Singapore has just ruthlessly executed one guy who got caught with 2 pounds of gear.
The Mauritians would point to Elizabeth II's governments treatment of the Chagos Islanders if you started talking about 'Western standards' of human rights.
Would you like to live under Chinese standards of governance?
Of course not. Doesn't make our treatment of the Chagos Islanders any less shameful.
Ok, but you seem much more interested in Whataboutery rather than engaging with it.
The Chinese government does Chagos style removals all the time. Only the bigger stuff, such as annihilating Tibet culturally and ethnically, gets even brief notice.
What we're seeing here is how some on the Left (not all) are far more comfortable on safe ground of critiquing historical actions by Britain than they are discussing the far bigger and more extensive crimes, and much more scary developments, in the contemporary world conducted by totalitarian states.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
It's a thing called Sovereignty. We are responsible for the actions of our own state, but not for the internal actions of other states.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
As long as Britain isn't involved, eh?
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
No, I am very proud of Britain. In particular I take pride in our country because it is free enough, and self confident enough to re-examine our past and to acknowledge our own dark side as a nation.
No, you're not. You never say anything even vaguely patriotic about Britain on here, what you think we stand for, or the positive role you think we should play in future. You exhibit precisely zero self-confidence because it's intrigue with no purpose except to purify yourself.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I think @Foxy gets up every day, goes to work, and does good for the people of the UK.
Nah, today I have walked my dog, done my garden, drank tea, made a chilli and plan to go to a critical football game. I have done bugger all for anyone.
Not even the hound? I'm sure the hound would disagree.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
Yes but theyve gone seriously off the boil of late.
They have once or twice in the past too, but always seem to bounce back.
I'm absolutely knackered from my French self-defence class last night.
I've never run so far in all my life.
Do you really have so little going for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by posting unfunny stuff trying to feel superior to the French?
He's quite happy to post stuff on why he Germans are wankers too.
Nah, I love Germans and Germany, even before Klopp.
[TSE puts his hands up, sobbing] "Please! I like Germany!"
Yes, embarrassing, but we didn't run from either of those and fought first before surrendering.
Singapore comes bloody close to a French performance though.
I prefer not to think about it.
British military history includes rather a lot of running away. The retreat from Greece, then Crete, the Retreat from Burma in 1942, some epic retreats in the North African campaign, and of course the Daddy of all retreats at Dunkirk, and that is just WW2.
Retreating successfully is a key military skill, and not to be sneered at.
Comments
Is the LLG changing much.
Curtice big test for Labour is are they 10 points ahead in the locals, there are two measures, actual votes and then the adjusted figure that puts Labour up and Tories down, I presume Curtice means only latter. I am not saying he is wrong, but add the fluidness of the LLG to support each other is a pointer to next years GE as far as it can be measured.
I’d say their Belt and Road programme resembles the strategy of the East India Company.
I hadn't really watched Biden before but there was a (no doubt cherry-picked) clip of him talking about something the other day. Sounded and mannerisms exactly like my mate.
This seems to me to still be applying tired late 20th century thinking where car and commuter are king. It also makes these places soulless estates filled with bored teenagers.
Start up grants and rates rebates for small commercial, community and leisure spaces in these types of developments would work wonders for community cohesion, cutting unnecessary journeys and helping build small local enterprise.
But enough of this banter lets deal with the reality.
And the reality is that great housing masterplans of property type X to be built in location Y are not going to happen.
Instead we're going to continue as we have for decades in building a variety of types of new property in lots of locations all around the country.
We'll have some high density flats in city centres, some brownfield redevelopment, some new estates alongside existing suburbia and a few new expensive houses in the rural areas.
And people will move to the type of property and the type of area that suits their lifestyle and their finances.
Now perhaps this is 'suffocating' southern England but if so its an auto erotic asphyxiation that they seem to enjoy.
Why?
Because to do so would mean facing up to them and taking their minds to some uncomfortable places, and they'd far rather not have to do that.
When the inevitable occurs, which it would, they would then find anyone to blame but themselves.
Of course I am a great believer in international organisations moderating Sovereignty and where necessary actively spreading democracy, human rights and other forms of freedom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton_DART
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
It's you who keeps trying to take us back - because you don't have the gumption to face up to it.
You have a deep sense of shame about your own country, and believe it's damned. The only engagement you want is to atone for sins and pass the buck to others.
I have nothing but contempt for this point of view.
It's a shame, but you can't help how you're made.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65448470
Fortunately, the NHS produces copious amounts of data, and it turns out that they actually produce a quarterly bulletin on the number of people taking antidepressants, and it can be found here: https://nhsbsa-opendata.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/mumh/mumh_quarterly_dec22_v001.html
In the quarter to December 2022, the total number of people in England and Wales that took at least one antidepressant was 6.59m. This essentially makes your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants in the UK impossible: it would require that (a) all the 6.6m in England and Wales are women; and that (b) every woman in Scotland is on them.
A quick note to admit that you totally made up the numbers, or read them off your talking points sheet, would be great.
Thanks!
I've never run so far in all my life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Singapore
So alongside confirming that you aren't in the UK so don't know how UK prescriptions work - you also show that your reading comprehension and math skills aren't that great.
There's a pretty constant 3:1 ratio between prescriptions and patients. It's almost like they get new scrips monthly.
All you're interested in is self-flagellation, shame, and coping out of the difficult choices.
I would see a counsellor.
Fortunately for us all, China is running out of young people.
One ray of hope amidst the drumbeat march of Chinese despotism is, indeed, that country's litany of serious socio-economic challenges. We're so busy worrying about all the things we're screwing up that it's very easy to forget that China is tumbling into the same demographic abyss as the West - its total fertility rate is comparable with that of the UK - when much of the country is still very under-developed. Shanghai might be as rich as Europe, but large tracts of China are subsistence agrarian backwaters with income levels more closely resembling those of sub-Saharan Africa. Nor are mooted government attempts to persuade urban youth to bang out more kids likely to come to much when, in common with other East Asian economies, young people appear both relatively disinterested in reproducing when kids will chew through all their disposable income, and frequently unable to afford to do so at all because of housing costs.
Combine this with the fact that China is not particularly welcoming of or attractive to economic migrants and its ceaseless ascendancy is far from a done deal.
Because those numbers do not match with the actual link I shared FROM THE NHS.
Combine this with the fact that China is not particularly welcoming of or attractive to economic migrants and its ceaseless ascendancy is far from a done deal.
China isn't unstoppable, and faces challenges as you say, and that doesn't mean we shouldn't stand up to it whilst it remains such a serious and dangerous geopolitical rival.
You're making up numbers.
Share the link to the UK census with the antidepressant figures you quoted, or be banned.
Your call.
source: https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-tells-mark-levin-he-got-treated-worse-than-vilified-abraham-lincoln/
From a friendly interview with Mark Levin. I think it shows that Trump is worried, and that he is slipping.
To the extent he does look forward he doesn't mention Britain at all - just "the international community".
Far more subtle this time.
That's better.
But you do realise that this rather undercuts your point?
Most people who take antidepressants aren't on them long-term. Of the 8.3m who took one in 2022, only 6.6m had one in Q4. That suggests that most people had them for a short period, usually to deal with insomnia, and then stopped using them.
In the last quarter of 2022, there were 6.6m who who had an antidepressant prescription.
That's FAR from your claim that 9m women are on antidepressants.
I think such comparisons probably don’t mean much.
Arguably, not only is China unstoppable but also that its peak power may have passed. As you mention, its fertility rate is on the way down but the Government can't as it were reverse the consequences as that would bring uncomfortable questions about whether the CCP is always right. However, there are many more fundamental issues. Youth unemployment is on the rise. The Chinese economy is unhealthily dependent on property. Many Chinese companies would be bust if looked at on western accounting standards. I would assume that Xi is also thinking that what goes for Russia's military (overhyped capabilities, so-called advanced weapons that don't work that well in practice, questionable capabilities of military leadership etc) also play for China's military. Meanwhile, the number of countries who are questioning whether it makes sense to do deals with China is increasing.
It's entirely open to @Foxy to show us what he loves about Britain rather than what he's ashamed about - to try and cop-out by saying that what he loves about Britain is that we're not ashamed to be ashamed isn't an answer.
If you're going to criticise your past it has to be with deep love and with a mind to building a constructive future, with suggestions to boot.
Otherwise I'm perfectly entitled to call out anti-patriotism and self-haters when I see it.
So, when I hear things like this shows Trump knows he is slipping, I put it at a discount because that it is his attitude today. Tomorrow, he could be punching the air. Or, to put simply, he has mood swings.
Singapore comes bloody close to a French performance though.
I prefer not to think about it.
If he has cognitive decline, then it is only fair to the electorate - and arguably the world - to be honestly appraised.
I was merely questioning an implied diagnosis of Parkinson’s based upon ‘mannerisms’.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/04/france.foodanddrink
OK, so we want to build Hong Kong in Pennine Yorkshire. I think even from what I've seen of Hong Kong, the ultra dense bit is nestled in the mountains rather than atop them, and the land area of Hong Kong in total is about 1.5x the size of all West Yorkshire. Perhaps you could use the small valley plains and hilltop plateaux. A lot of Halifax is on a bit of a low plateau above the Hebble, and there's a decent plateau to the east of Halifax near the village of Southowram. The valley bottoms are pretty developed and a lot of the land either side, for example along the south bank of the Calder is steep escarpment to 300+m.
To fully use the land, the challenge is good city grade multi lane road and mass transit connectivity from plateau to valley to plateau because at present that connectivity (the side roads to Mount Tabor, for instance, or Salterhebble Hill into Halifax, or the A road routes down the hill into Sowerby Bridge are interesting).
All fantasy, of course, but that's the nub of the challenge and reflects across much of this part of the world.
I am proud of a country that has a long tradition of dissent from aristocratic and establishment institutions. A history that goes back as far as Pelagius, via the Lollards, Puritans, Non-Conformists, Knox, the Levellers, the Diggers, Owen, Paine, Cobbett, Owen, Ned Ludd, Captain Swing, the Chartists, Keir Hardie, the country that gave sanctuary to Marx and Hugo, and hundreds of further examples to recent times.
Radical thought is a great British tradition and one we should be proud of. It is that questioning of authority that keeps our vested interests in line and keeps away the tyranny that befalls so many other countries.
I am as equally proud of Britain and its history as yourself. We just disagree over what aspects to choose to be proud of.
Had him ticked off quite a few posts ago.
But your policing of others’ discourse could fairly be characterised as batshit.
IF you'd been observing Joe Biden over the last half-century, then you'd know that he has ALWAYS been a gaff factory.
Myself, perhaps not as much as #46, in gaffs OR achievements.
Though as time's winged chariot has progressed, we've both experienced our share of senioritis, or geezer moments, or whatever you wanna call them.
And I'm WAY younger than Uncle Joe!
He has only himself to blame.
Which is that TSE's non-stop Francophobia, is as much a part of his comic schtick, as were non-stop insults for Don Rickles, and non-stop self-putdowns for Rodney Dangerfield, and . . .
Like Sturgeon, Merkel’s reputation has collapsed rapidly.
At least she’s no Gerhard Schröder.
I don't think the Opium Wars require a lot of dissecting to conclude that the British Empire had a very dark side.
Though Admiral Graves, in the opinion of many, did run - or at least sail - from his opponents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake
*Edit: nor were their allies, such as the loyalists in Yorktown, or the New Zealanders in Singapore, who were very badly let down.
Retreating successfully is a key military skill, and not to be sneered at.