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Some of the front pages from the Sundays – politicalbetting.com

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  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    The problem she has, is that a lot of what she calls sexist and racist, is actually numerist and stupidist.

    She wasn’t being called out for being a black woman, she was being called out for being innumerate and illiterate.
    That's neither fair nor accurate. Yes, Abbott has received abuse because of her abilities. But she has also, in the 35 years she's been an MP, received huge amounts of abuse from racists, misogynists and others about her race and other physical characteristics that are unrelated to her abilities.
    Sure, she’s received racist and sexist comments during her career. She’s also given out lots of them herself, and on many occasions questioned the motives of those criticising her political positioning.

    If I call her an idiot for saying that 10,000 police officers will cost £300,000 over four years, that doesn’t make me racist or sexist.
    I repeat... she is bonkers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    When you've gone so far that even those otherwise inclined to be very easy on you know it's too much.

    Jon Lansman, the founder of the left wing pro-Corbyn pressure group Momentum has condemned Diane Abbott's letter and supports her suspension from the Labour Party.
    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1650097372842557441?cxt=HHwWgoCwka20qeYtAAAA
    https://twitter.com/jonlansman/status/1650090286146543616

    Even the comments below Lansman's tweet are only partly in defence of Abbott, where normally you'd expect most of them to be.

    Perhaps she could redo her comments about how claims Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine shoudl be treated skeptically (Yes, she said it just prior to the invasion, but it was still incredibly stupid).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited April 2023
    Sean_F said:

    Dialup said:

    How have Britons' financial situations changed in the last three months? (16 April)

    Worsened: 52% (+3)
    Stayed the same: 34% ­(-2)
    Improved: 14% (-1)

    Changes +/- 9 April

    Underneath the polling boost, normal people are still feeling the hurt from the economy.

    I’m putting “polling boost” down to a “Seasonal Phenomena” for Spring, not based on anything substantial.

    If I’m right, I expect the Tory position to stall and slip back in May and June, drop back clearly in Autumn.

    For evidence, I point to how last Spring, despite everything getting thrown at Boris, he closed the gap to just 4 points in April, on the average of all the polling. This years Spring Bounce still not electorally effective as that as HY pointed out “Great, we have clawed back to merely John Major Wipe Out territory.” This slow move still leaves a huge gulf, which could be telling us so many already made up their mind to throw the Tories out of power. But the evidence is there, the Tories do seem to have good Aprils - but can’t hold it throughout rest of year.

    If I’m right, and proved right or wrong in Spring Bounce theory - which I am copyrighting as Daffodil Theory (c) - in coming weeks and months, the Tories slip back, it suggests that through Sunak’s greed at wanting to remain Primeminister, the Tories will pass up their best possible result next spring, holding out throughout summer and into Autumn 2024.
    Good morning

    I am not sure about dropping back in the coming months not least because with better weather and less energy use maybe cheering people up a bit

    I expect things to remain much the same with Sunak's approval ratings gradually increasing, but as was discussed in the politics show this morning and Andy Haldane (BOE) saying inflation will half this year, I expect tax cuts next spring and Sunak to take on Starmer in October 24 which will be a genuine contest

    It is likely Labour will be the next government but some of the complacency and hubris from Labour supporters may be a wee bit unwise

    Notwithstanding, I expect the locals to be bad for the conservatives who are very fortunate that they will be drowned out by the coronation festivities
    There are millions of voters whose financial position is pretty good, right now. As inflation falls, there will be those who see their pay increasing real terms, and others who will be receiving serious interest on their savings for the first time in fifteen years.

    I don't think that any of that is sufficient to win the Conservatives the next election, but I'm fairly confident they'll hold a similar number of seats to Labour in 2010.

    In headline terms, I don't think Conservative losses will be that bad, since I'd expect losses to Labour to be partly offset by gains from independents and local parties, who did very well in 2019.
    I stand by Daffodil Theory. Firstly on trend, The Tories have had good Aprils and bad Autumns, and secondly on the good Aprils not having anything much in the narrative to give them a boost, for Boris last year or Sunak this year - except Sunak still a bit new in the job and not properly hollowed out yet.

    Thirdly there could be things at work in politics we don’t immediately appreciate, April start of financial year for example, so council tax, rents, mortgage rates going up hurt in summer, remind many voters that Tories hate working people, piling tax on them and denying the aspiration to own their own home.

    The economy getting better mid nineties led to Labour government - we shouldn’t presume inflation coming down wins votes, if votes were lost not by inflation being high but by how out of touch government handled it. Such as people left with this impression https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11852001/Rishi-Sunak-spend-tens-thousands-upgrade-power-supply-new-indoor-heated-pool.html

    Also if it comes down to 4%, where economists feel it might be sticky, it’s still going up. A government would look very silly hailing their halving it, if grocery prices is still a bit above that rate and hurting everyone.

    A pre election tax cut, funded by all the sneaky tax traps this year, would certainly lose many more votes than it gained, with public services falling apart and borrowing repayments so high, the bribe with our own money would lose votes on basis it will look like taking the piss out of all voters.

    The Tory ratings I am 80% sure will stall and decline over the next few months.

    Sunak’s personal ratings I’m 100% certain decline over the next 12 months, as attacks on his awful government record hollow him out. Sunak’s personal record of getting value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud is probably the worst record ever, it’s an utterly shocking list of waste and failure, eat out to help out, Covid loans fraud, not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but he funded criminal enterprises by just handing it out to them! and now threat to the UK economy of his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme go the way of the Silicon valley bank. wherever there has been proper sleaze and government corruption - especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching Tories and their friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it this, waving things through VIP lanes, eventing schemes, signing loans off. It’s going to be a long 12 months for Sunak and his ratings we should be sure of that.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,384
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    In least surprising news of the day, I see that Raab has added the BBC to the list of those guilty of making him a rubbish manager (interview in the Mail). I wonder how much further the tentacles of the Woke Blob will extend?

    More seriously, Raab and the right-wing media's response to his defenestration isn't particularly funny. The perpetuation of paranoid conspiracy theories is another step down the USA route, especially when the targets are British institutions such as the Civil Service and the BBC.

    Not quite the least surprising.

    Spielman messing up an interview is the least surprising news of the day. After all, this is a woman who couldn't define safeguarding and then accidentally suggested sexting wasn't a safeguarding issue. So saying schools are intimidated by the inspection regime but that it is a positive and affirming experience for them is par for the course.

    How on earth did she ever get appointed, even with her background? A genuinely dangerous woman, not because of malice but because she's not up to it.
    I remember thinking she ought to be an improvement on Wilshaw, who thought he knew loads by dint of having been a successful headmaster but knew less than he recognised. I bumped into her at a conference shortly after her appointment and she did seem in listening mode.

    Sadly, didn't work like that.
    Wilshaw was interesting. And at least he was willing to listen. He did, actually, recognise his limitations. For example, he acknowledged that he didn't know enough about further education, and took advice gratefully.
    I actually thought Wilshaw did pretty well. He didn't get everything right but he was intelligent and he also had one priceless asset - nobody could seriously question his commitment to top-class education.

    On that subject though, how many really good HMCIs have there been? David Bell. Possibly Mike Tomlinson and Michael Wilshaw. The others though have all been pretty inept. Woodhead, for example, was just awful, and is a key reason why OFSTED has never quite worked as it should.

    Spielman however is just the pits. A typical placewoman who seems solely to parrot lines that will play well in the Daily Mail.
    David Bell was great - rather charismatic and very, very bright. Wilshaw was good. There was one, largely forgotten about, even worse than Spielman. Christine Gilbert.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    The amazing thing about Abbott’s failed apology is that it strongly suggests her original letter was not a suicide note - seeking expulsion - she actually thought it was a reasonable thing to write to a newspaper

    Which again implies she is either remarkably stupid or seriously unpleasant. Or both

    I wonder whether the Observer published it knowing it would get Abbott into trouble.
    I'm surprised it didn't make their front page with remarks like that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    For the Lego geeks, this is something else.

    Lufthansa Technik revealed a CFM Leap-1B engine made entirely out of Lego bricks with working parts
    https://twitter.com/gunsnrosesgirl3/status/1649693777777287171

    Damn, I thought the Lego Saturn V, Space Shuttle, and Porsche 911, that are all in my office, were good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    I don't know much about Newspapers but my guess is that they would generally publish any letters from well known people unless they had very good reason not to. I don't think Patricia Highsmith is a good comparison. Abbott is a serving MP.

    I’ve always wondered how newspapers actually verify letters from well-known people. It’s not difficult to make up some letterhead stationery these days.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    In least surprising news of the day, I see that Raab has added the BBC to the list of those guilty of making him a rubbish manager (interview in the Mail). I wonder how much further the tentacles of the Woke Blob will extend?

    More seriously, Raab and the right-wing media's response to his defenestration isn't particularly funny. The perpetuation of paranoid conspiracy theories is another step down the USA route, especially when the targets are British institutions such as the Civil Service and the BBC.

    Not quite the least surprising.

    Spielman messing up an interview is the least surprising news of the day. After all, this is a woman who couldn't define safeguarding and then accidentally suggested sexting wasn't a safeguarding issue. So saying schools are intimidated by the inspection regime but that it is a positive and affirming experience for them is par for the course.

    How on earth did she ever get appointed, even with her background? A genuinely dangerous woman, not because of malice but because she's not up to it.
    I remember thinking she ought to be an improvement on Wilshaw, who thought he knew loads by dint of having been a successful headmaster but knew less than he recognised. I bumped into her at a conference shortly after her appointment and she did seem in listening mode.

    Sadly, didn't work like that.
    Wilshaw was interesting. And at least he was willing to listen. He did, actually, recognise his limitations. For example, he acknowledged that he didn't know enough about further education, and took advice gratefully.
    I actually thought Wilshaw did pretty well. He didn't get everything right but he was intelligent and he also had one priceless asset - nobody could seriously question his commitment to top-class education.

    On that subject though, how many really good HMCIs have there been? David Bell. Possibly Mike Tomlinson and Michael Wilshaw. The others though have all been pretty inept. Woodhead, for example, was just awful, and is a key reason why OFSTED has never quite worked as it should.

    Spielman however is just the pits. A typical placewoman who seems solely to parrot lines that will play well in the Daily Mail.
    David Bell was great - rather charismatic and very, very bright. Wilshaw was good. There was one, largely forgotten about, even worse than Spielman. Christine Gilbert.
    I think that's a bit harsh.

    I agree Gilbert was awful, but at least she knew what safeguarding was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Good to see Starmer acting so swiftly on Abbot's idiotic comments. Sad that Sunak can't act as decisively, or indeed at all, on Braverman's racist comments.

    See the comments of William Wragg MP upthread.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    This Confederate leader will boggle some minds:
    "[Judah P.] Benjamin rose rapidly both at the bar and in politics. He became a wealthy planter and slaveowner and was elected to and served in both houses of the Louisiana legislature prior to his election by the legislature to the US Senate in 1852. There, he was an eloquent supporter of slavery. After Louisiana seceded in 1861, Benjamin resigned as senator and returned to New Orleans. He soon moved to Richmond after Confederate President Jefferson Davis appointed him as Attorney General. Benjamin had little to do in that position, but Davis was impressed by his competence and appointed him as Secretary of War. Benjamin firmly supported Davis, and the President reciprocated the loyalty by promoting him to Secretary of State in March 1862, while Benjamin was being criticized for the rebel defeat at the Battle of Roanoke Island."

    He escaped after the war, and became a successful barrister in the UK.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

    From that career I conclude that Conferate leaders, though racist to the core, were not, by the standards of the time, especially anti-Semitic.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,384

    Nice to see Starmer’s been quick to take the opportunity to rid himself of another Corbynite moron. I sympathise with the constant shite she’ll have had to endure throughout her time in public life and there’s no doubt she’s been a committed servant for Labour, but she’s far too far to the left for my mushy centrism.

    It’s staggering that she thought it was a good idea to submit that to a national newspaper. Totally naive, like McDonnell waving the Little Red Book in the Commons. And the apology is laughable.

    I wonder if there are mental health issues at play as it is really dumb even if she believed it. Regardless needs to lose the whip and not be re-selected.
    There have been suggestions that DA has health problems since at least 2017.
    I hope Dura Ace exercises his right to reply.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited April 2023
    Gloucestershire are now going to lose this match, as I've put the livestream from New Road on for ten minutes.

    Edit - FFS, I'd literally just left the room to refill my glass of water and a wicket falls!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    We are accepting it in a spirit of understanding.

    Understanding that her apology was a load of bullshit.

    Kindness - well, we're recommending that she lose her job rather than be prosecuted.

    I think we're living up to his standards.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    As writer Lissa Evans has pointed out on twitter, the "I wrote a draft but didn't mean to send it" excuse is basically the plot of Atonement. It wasn't believable in the book and it's not believable now.
  • It’s a bit like Wales here..


  • Alex Bell implies that at the time of the Sturgeon standing down there was an ongoing police investigation into possible perjury in the Salmond trial? Did I miss this or is this new information?

    https://twitter.com/Cat_Headley/status/1650078375040385024?s=20

    Not new information, but this is ongoing, yes.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire are now going to lose this match, as I've put the livestream from New Road on for ten minutes.

    Edit - FFS, I'd literally just left the room to refill my glass of water and a wicket falls!

    Don’t leave the room then.

    They must like away games, they actually get to play a match unlike home games.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Excellent long read over at Politico.

    The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence
    America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
    … Understanding how these historical forces affect policy issues — from gun control to Covid-19 responses — can provide important insights into how to craft interventions that might make us all safer and happier. Building coalitions for gun reform at both the state and federal level would benefit from regionally tailored messaging that acknowledged traditions and attitudes around guns and the appropriate use of deadly violence are much deeper than mere party allegiance. “A famous Scot once said ‘let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws,’ because culture is extremely powerful,” says Carl T. Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law, who is a second amendment scholar. “Culture drives politics, law and policy. It is amazingly durable, and you have to take it into account.”..

    … I run Nationhood Lab, a project at Salve Regina University’s Pell Center for International Relations and Public Policy, which uses this regional framework to analyze all manner of phenomena where regionalism plays a critical role in understanding what’s going on in America and how one might go about responding to it. We knew decades of scholarship showed there were large regional variations in levels of violence and gun violence and that the dominant values in those regions, encoded in the norms of the region over many generations, likely played a significant role. But nobody had run the data using a meaningful, historically based model of U.S. regions and their boundaries. Working with our data partners Motivf, we used data on homicides and suicides from the Centers for Disease Control for the period 2010 to 2020 and have just released a detailed analysis of what we found. (The CDC data are “smoothed per capita rates,” meaning the CDC has averaged counties with their immediate neighbors to protect victims’ privacy. The data allows us to reliably depict geographical patterns but doesn’t allow us to say the precise rate of a given county.) As expected, the disparities between the regions are stark, but even I was shocked at just how wide the differences were and also by some unexpected revelations.

    The Deep South is the most deadly of the large regions at 15.6 per 100,000 residents followed by Greater Appalachia at 13.5. That’s triple and quadruple the rate of New Netherland — the most densely populated part of the continent — which has a rate of 3.8, which is comparable to that of Switzerland. Yankeedom is the next safest at 8.6, which is about half that of Deep South, and Left Coast follows closely behind at 9. El Norte, the Midlands, Tidewater and Far West fall in between…


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
    Agreed, and again suspect Peston is aware of a mental health issue that Abbott is determined to keep hidden. It is the only thing that makes sense in terms of both her sending the letter and Peston thinking kindness is appropriate.

    Kindness may well be appropriate if we knew the facts, but regardless she should not be an MP, certainly not of a major party.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
    Looking at his twitter feed there does not appear to be any other context. He says she must know about what happened to jews and gypsies etc, and it is 'such a strange letter', then says because she has suggered racist abuse her apology must be accepted.

    I get not wanting to join a pile on, but that's not the same thing as thinking an apology should just be accepted if it is ridiculous. I'm totally against continuing to slam people when they have provided overwrought apologies, but her explanation is so silly there's no need to dial down the outrage.

    So I think this is just counter virtue signalling - people are signalling virtue by expressing outratge at her comments, and he is trying to signal virtue by going 'Come on, guys, leave her alone'.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I don’t think Diane Abbott is very well. I really don’t.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Nigelb said:

    Excellent long read over at Politico.

    The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence
    America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
    … Understanding how these historical forces affect policy issues — from gun control to Covid-19 responses — can provide important insights into how to craft interventions that might make us all safer and happier. Building coalitions for gun reform at both the state and federal level would benefit from regionally tailored messaging that acknowledged traditions and attitudes around guns and the appropriate use of deadly violence are much deeper than mere party allegiance. “A famous Scot once said ‘let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws,’ because culture is extremely powerful,” says Carl T. Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law, who is a second amendment scholar. “Culture drives politics, law and policy. It is amazingly durable, and you have to take it into account.”..

    … I run Nationhood Lab, a project at Salve Regina University’s Pell Center for International Relations and Public Policy, which uses this regional framework to analyze all manner of phenomena where regionalism plays a critical role in understanding what’s going on in America and how one might go about responding to it. We knew decades of scholarship showed there were large regional variations in levels of violence and gun violence and that the dominant values in those regions, encoded in the norms of the region over many generations, likely played a significant role. But nobody had run the data using a meaningful, historically based model of U.S. regions and their boundaries. Working with our data partners Motivf, we used data on homicides and suicides from the Centers for Disease Control for the period 2010 to 2020 and have just released a detailed analysis of what we found. (The CDC data are “smoothed per capita rates,” meaning the CDC has averaged counties with their immediate neighbors to protect victims’ privacy. The data allows us to reliably depict geographical patterns but doesn’t allow us to say the precise rate of a given county.) As expected, the disparities between the regions are stark, but even I was shocked at just how wide the differences were and also by some unexpected revelations.

    The Deep South is the most deadly of the large regions at 15.6 per 100,000 residents followed by Greater Appalachia at 13.5. That’s triple and quadruple the rate of New Netherland — the most densely populated part of the continent — which has a rate of 3.8, which is comparable to that of Switzerland. Yankeedom is the next safest at 8.6, which is about half that of Deep South, and Left Coast follows closely behind at 9. El Norte, the Midlands, Tidewater and Far West fall in between…


    The Politico article is worth reading in full, as it pretty clearly shows that the effects of culture greatly outweighs those of ‘race’ - though clearly, given US history, the two interact significantly.
    Fascinating stuff.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Even wee Owen Jones isn't having it:

    "That letter from Diane Abbott is an absolute shocker. Just completely astonished."

    https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1650090946212556803
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Scottish government spent £338,533 on TikTok before it was banned. GB News.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    I'm getting a bit of an impression that any offence to GRT people isn't much fuelling the outrage at Abbott's letter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    The Biden administration is quite smart.

    One reason the debt fight is getting awkward for Republicans
    GOP lawmakers want to repeal clean-energy programs as part of a deal to avert a default. But those programs are creating jobs in Republican-held districts.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/22/gop-attacks-energy-spending-00093204
  • If Abbott is so unwell that she can't control what she writes or says, then someone senior in the Labour Party needs a bollocking for letting it get this far. Or maybe this is really just a way to get rid of her.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,843
    Good interview with a China dove on the US China relationship.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlM-aknIYtc

    I get the point about groupthink and the US establishment being too intolerant of dissenting views. Particularly striking her comments on Asian American academics feeling increasing uncomfortable in the US and looking to move elsewhere. What might be an ideal location for them?

    However I have a few problems. She uses the detente comparison as a starting point for US China relations. If that could be managed with the Soviet Union why not with China? I'm not an expert on detente but surely China has no interest in the status quo? They see themselves as in the ascendant and needing to proactively right a historical wrong. It is they who are looking to a future of global dominance or primacy usurping the US. A second problem that really bothers me is that no mention is made to the rest of the world, other than very briefly Russia . The US and China combined are not going to represent the percentage of GDP that the US and Soviet Union (plus proxies) did after 1945. It won't be a Chinese century but it might just be an Asian one. Yet no other countries, including India whom China fears, are considered in the political calculation. To be sure, going forward the US and China re likely to be the pre-eminent tier 1 powers. But to see the world in terms of superpowers and proxies seems very unwise and actually plays in to the hands of those who deny agency to the US's allies who are trying to protect themselves from Chinese dominance.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine has released a video of its amphibious landing on the left bank of the Dnipro river, establishing the first bridgehead east of Kherson.

    It was recorded on April 18th..

    https://twitter.com/The5HbK/status/1650082079701626881

    There seems to be some dispute about whether this is anything you could call a "bridgehead" since they're in a swamp and it's hard to land stuff without roads.
    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1650075072177242114
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Abbott is the 14th longest serving MP in the Commons, though only 69 - she could have kept her head down and kept going long enough to be Mother of the House!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    I'm getting a bit of an impression that any offence to GRT people isn't much fuelling the outrage at Abbott's letter.

    It's being mentioned, but obviously is not the primary source, which is hardly a surprise.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
    Agreed, and again suspect Peston is aware of a mental health issue that Abbott is determined to keep hidden. It is the only thing that makes sense in terms of both her sending the letter and Peston thinking kindness is appropriate.

    Kindness may well be appropriate if we knew the facts, but regardless she should not be an MP, certainly not of a major party.
    If there’s a known mental health issue, then that leads to questions of the newspaper publishing the letter in the first place; but also to questions of why she remains as an MP.

    If she’s not well, she should retire. She’s 69 years old.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    edited April 2023
    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    "SNP most transparent party in Scotland, Keith Brown says"

    Hrm.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    DougSeal said:

    I don’t think Diane Abbott is very well. I really don’t.

    She'll be 70 next year. That doesn't automatically mean that she's past it, but it's not shameful if her age is limiting her ability to think sharply.

    Maybe "standing down for health reasons" is the kindest (and not wholly untrue) way out for everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine has released a video of its amphibious landing on the left bank of the Dnipro river, establishing the first bridgehead east of Kherson.

    It was recorded on April 18th..

    https://twitter.com/The5HbK/status/1650082079701626881

    There seems to be some dispute about whether this is anything you could call a "bridgehead" since they're in a swamp and it's hard to land stuff without roads.
    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1650075072177242114
    Of course - and it’s quite possible it’s just a feint - which you’d expect a number of, preceding any large engagement of forces in counteroffensive advances.
    But stuff is starting to happen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    If it is that is a hell of a slam on the others. Though why even bother to mention this bit I don't know.

    He also claimed SNP membership has increased across the country.

    It could be true. It probably is true after the 'errors' made previously as it'd be crazy to be false again, but given the party knowingly lied about it before it might be better to not comment on party figures for a while.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Nice to see Starmer’s been quick to take the opportunity to rid himself of another Corbynite moron. I sympathise with the constant shite she’ll have had to endure throughout her time in public life and there’s no doubt she’s been a committed servant for Labour, but she’s far too far to the left for my mushy centrism.

    It’s staggering that she thought it was a good idea to submit that to a national newspaper. Totally naive, like McDonnell waving the Little Red Book in the Commons. And the apology is laughable.

    I wonder if there are mental health issues at play as it is really dumb even if she believed it. Regardless needs to lose the whip and not be re-selected.
    There have been suggestions that DA has health problems since at least 2017.
    I hope Dura Ace exercises his right to reply.
    I certainly won't see 60.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    Those audited accounts will be along in 3… 2… 1…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nice to see Starmer’s been quick to take the opportunity to rid himself of another Corbynite moron. I sympathise with the constant shite she’ll have had to endure throughout her time in public life and there’s no doubt she’s been a committed servant for Labour, but she’s far too far to the left for my mushy centrism.

    It’s staggering that she thought it was a good idea to submit that to a national newspaper. Totally naive, like McDonnell waving the Little Red Book in the Commons. And the apology is laughable.

    I wonder if there are mental health issues at play as it is really dumb even if she believed it. Regardless needs to lose the whip and not be re-selected.
    There have been suggestions that DA has health problems since at least 2017.
    I hope Dura Ace exercises his right to reply.
    I certainly won't see 60.
    It's that thing you roared past on your way to 90mph, I'm not surprised you missed it.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent long read over at Politico.

    The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence
    America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
    … Understanding how these historical forces affect policy issues — from gun control to Covid-19 responses — can provide important insights into how to craft interventions that might make us all safer and happier. Building coalitions for gun reform at both the state and federal level would benefit from regionally tailored messaging that acknowledged traditions and attitudes around guns and the appropriate use of deadly violence are much deeper than mere party allegiance. “A famous Scot once said ‘let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws,’ because culture is extremely powerful,” says Carl T. Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law, who is a second amendment scholar. “Culture drives politics, law and policy. It is amazingly durable, and you have to take it into account.”..

    … I run Nationhood Lab, a project at Salve Regina University’s Pell Center for International Relations and Public Policy, which uses this regional framework to analyze all manner of phenomena where regionalism plays a critical role in understanding what’s going on in America and how one might go about responding to it. We knew decades of scholarship showed there were large regional variations in levels of violence and gun violence and that the dominant values in those regions, encoded in the norms of the region over many generations, likely played a significant role. But nobody had run the data using a meaningful, historically based model of U.S. regions and their boundaries. Working with our data partners Motivf, we used data on homicides and suicides from the Centers for Disease Control for the period 2010 to 2020 and have just released a detailed analysis of what we found. (The CDC data are “smoothed per capita rates,” meaning the CDC has averaged counties with their immediate neighbors to protect victims’ privacy. The data allows us to reliably depict geographical patterns but doesn’t allow us to say the precise rate of a given county.) As expected, the disparities between the regions are stark, but even I was shocked at just how wide the differences were and also by some unexpected revelations.

    The Deep South is the most deadly of the large regions at 15.6 per 100,000 residents followed by Greater Appalachia at 13.5. That’s triple and quadruple the rate of New Netherland — the most densely populated part of the continent — which has a rate of 3.8, which is comparable to that of Switzerland. Yankeedom is the next safest at 8.6, which is about half that of Deep South, and Left Coast follows closely behind at 9. El Norte, the Midlands, Tidewater and Far West fall in between…


    The Politico article is worth reading in full, as it pretty clearly shows that the effects of culture greatly outweighs those of ‘race’ - though clearly, given US history, the two interact significantly.
    Fascinating stuff.
    See also: “American Nations” by Colin Woodward (author of this article) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0143122029
    & going a little further back “Albion’s Seed” by David Hackett Fischer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0195069056
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nice to see Starmer’s been quick to take the opportunity to rid himself of another Corbynite moron. I sympathise with the constant shite she’ll have had to endure throughout her time in public life and there’s no doubt she’s been a committed servant for Labour, but she’s far too far to the left for my mushy centrism.

    It’s staggering that she thought it was a good idea to submit that to a national newspaper. Totally naive, like McDonnell waving the Little Red Book in the Commons. And the apology is laughable.

    I wonder if there are mental health issues at play as it is really dumb even if she believed it. Regardless needs to lose the whip and not be re-selected.
    There have been suggestions that DA has health problems since at least 2017.
    I hope Dura Ace exercises his right to reply.
    I certainly won't see 60.
    Only if the speed limit is 40.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nice to see Starmer’s been quick to take the opportunity to rid himself of another Corbynite moron. I sympathise with the constant shite she’ll have had to endure throughout her time in public life and there’s no doubt she’s been a committed servant for Labour, but she’s far too far to the left for my mushy centrism.

    It’s staggering that she thought it was a good idea to submit that to a national newspaper. Totally naive, like McDonnell waving the Little Red Book in the Commons. And the apology is laughable.

    I wonder if there are mental health issues at play as it is really dumb even if she believed it. Regardless needs to lose the whip and not be re-selected.
    There have been suggestions that DA has health problems since at least 2017.
    I hope Dura Ace exercises his right to reply.
    I certainly won't see 60.
    If you don’t see 60 in 3 seconds, then you need more horsepower.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    If Abbott is so unwell that she can't control what she writes or says, then someone senior in the Labour Party needs a bollocking for letting it get this far. Or maybe this is really just a way to get rid of her.

    I think there are a few more possibilities than that binary choice.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Phil said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent long read over at Politico.

    The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence
    America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
    … Understanding how these historical forces affect policy issues — from gun control to Covid-19 responses — can provide important insights into how to craft interventions that might make us all safer and happier. Building coalitions for gun reform at both the state and federal level would benefit from regionally tailored messaging that acknowledged traditions and attitudes around guns and the appropriate use of deadly violence are much deeper than mere party allegiance. “A famous Scot once said ‘let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws,’ because culture is extremely powerful,” says Carl T. Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law, who is a second amendment scholar. “Culture drives politics, law and policy. It is amazingly durable, and you have to take it into account.”..

    … I run Nationhood Lab, a project at Salve Regina University’s Pell Center for International Relations and Public Policy, which uses this regional framework to analyze all manner of phenomena where regionalism plays a critical role in understanding what’s going on in America and how one might go about responding to it. We knew decades of scholarship showed there were large regional variations in levels of violence and gun violence and that the dominant values in those regions, encoded in the norms of the region over many generations, likely played a significant role. But nobody had run the data using a meaningful, historically based model of U.S. regions and their boundaries. Working with our data partners Motivf, we used data on homicides and suicides from the Centers for Disease Control for the period 2010 to 2020 and have just released a detailed analysis of what we found. (The CDC data are “smoothed per capita rates,” meaning the CDC has averaged counties with their immediate neighbors to protect victims’ privacy. The data allows us to reliably depict geographical patterns but doesn’t allow us to say the precise rate of a given county.) As expected, the disparities between the regions are stark, but even I was shocked at just how wide the differences were and also by some unexpected revelations.

    The Deep South is the most deadly of the large regions at 15.6 per 100,000 residents followed by Greater Appalachia at 13.5. That’s triple and quadruple the rate of New Netherland — the most densely populated part of the continent — which has a rate of 3.8, which is comparable to that of Switzerland. Yankeedom is the next safest at 8.6, which is about half that of Deep South, and Left Coast follows closely behind at 9. El Norte, the Midlands, Tidewater and Far West fall in between…


    The Politico article is worth reading in full, as it pretty clearly shows that the effects of culture greatly outweighs those of ‘race’ - though clearly, given US history, the two interact significantly.
    Fascinating stuff.
    See also: “American Nations” by Colin Woodward (author of this article) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0143122029
    & going a little further back “Albion’s Seed” by David Hackett Fischer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0195069056
    Two superb books, indispensable to understanding US culture.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
    Agreed, and again suspect Peston is aware of a mental health issue that Abbott is determined to keep hidden. It is the only thing that makes sense in terms of both her sending the letter and Peston thinking kindness is appropriate.

    Kindness may well be appropriate if we knew the facts, but regardless she should not be an MP, certainly not of a major party.
    If there’s a known mental health issue, then that leads to questions of the newspaper publishing the letter in the first place; but also to questions of why she remains as an MP.

    If she’s not well, she should retire. She’s 69 years old.
    There are lots of stubborn 69 year olds who do not want to recognise their mental health issues especially in public. Sure she should retire, and probably should have done 5 years ago, but its human nature to deny sometimes.

    Anyway her letter has taken it out of her own hands now, she will effectively be retired whether she likes it or not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh for Christ's sake, is this guy trolling people now? The apology about a 'draft' of a very brief statement was risible, the idea she actually thinks the opposite to what she clearly wrote absurd, should it be accepted in an 'understanding' way?

    Surely there must be some context to that, or is Peston being a total apologist for the racist letter?

    No-one has ever apologised for “accidentally sending a first draft of a letter” to a national newspaper before, have they?

    Again, just because she’s been on the reciving end of sexist and racist abuse in the past, doesn’t excuse her own racist behaviour, on several public occasions over her political career.
    Agreed, and again suspect Peston is aware of a mental health issue that Abbott is determined to keep hidden. It is the only thing that makes sense in terms of both her sending the letter and Peston thinking kindness is appropriate.

    Kindness may well be appropriate if we knew the facts, but regardless she should not be an MP, certainly not of a major party.
    If there’s a known mental health issue, then that leads to questions of the newspaper publishing the letter in the first place; but also to questions of why she remains as an MP.

    If she’s not well, she should retire. She’s 69 years old.
    There are lots of stubborn 69 year olds who do not want to recognise their mental health issues especially in public. Sure she should retire, and probably should have done 5 years ago, but its human nature to deny sometimes.

    Anyway her letter has taken it out of her own hands now, she will effectively be retired whether she likes it or not.
    McDonnell the last man standing? He was always a bit savvier, possibly as he is from a different political generation, coming in at 1997.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,843
    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    I don't think they intended to be though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    What are the current memberships of SLab and SCons?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    kle4 said:

    I'm getting a bit of an impression that any offence to GRT people isn't much fuelling the outrage at Abbott's letter.

    It's being mentioned, but obviously is not the primary source, which is hardly a surprise.
    Poor old GRTs, trumped again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    What are the current memberships of SLab and SCons?
    Not as good. Hence why lying about their own was such a weird move from the SNP.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    edited April 2023
    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be regularly discussed in more countries.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,843
    Another foreign policy issue.

    Why is no-one talking about the decline of Mikhail Saakashvili in a Georgian prison?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Alex Bell implies that at the time of the Sturgeon standing down there was an ongoing police investigation into possible perjury in the Salmond trial? Did I miss this or is this new information?

    https://twitter.com/Cat_Headley/status/1650078375040385024?s=20

    Not new information, but this is ongoing, yes.
    The shite keeps piling up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Alex Bell implies that at the time of the Sturgeon standing down there was an ongoing police investigation into possible perjury in the Salmond trial? Did I miss this or is this new information?

    https://twitter.com/Cat_Headley/status/1650078375040385024?s=20

    Not new information, but this is ongoing, yes.
    The shite keeps piling up.
    Shite should be released into cleansing fresh water, as we all know.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192

    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    SNP the most transparent party in Scotland, says deputy leader Keith Brown.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65365904

    Er ... yes. Transparently what, the world wonders?

    What are the current memberships of SLab and SCons?
    You need more squirrels :smiley:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
    The whole point of the debt limit, is the paralysis it leads to. It makes the lawmakers question and debate every single aspect of government spending, looking at what’s necessary and what’s not.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
    Wonder if it suffers from the same problem as the London Green Belt.

    Something created to stop profligacy had become a constricting sacred cow.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Talking of GRT this is a weird story with multiple complexities

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/23/its-traumatic-new-travellers-dorset-home-challenged-by-martin-clunes

    I had no idea you could be a “new traveller”? It appears to be someone a bit counter cultural who wanders around a lot. Hey that’s me!

    OTOH if they’ve lived there 20 years what’s the hassle. OTOOH it sounds like they used to be the landowners and therefore quite wealthy

    ?!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
    The whole point of the debt limit, is the paralysis it leads to. It makes the lawmakers question and debate every single aspect of government spending, looking at what’s necessary and what’s not.
    But they don’t, do they. They just argue for a bit, make no decisions and then raise it after a silly “shutdown”.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092
    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    Good grief, really? Is it a proper/reproduction prop or something they built themselves?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299
    viewcode said:

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    Good grief, really? Is it a proper/reproduction prop or something they built themselves?
    I own a fair sized trebuchet
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,680
    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    The new ban hammer plan does seem rather harsh!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092

    @Nigelb @Phil @Gardenwalker

    * Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413
    * “American Nations” by Colin Woodward (author of this article): https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0143122029
    * “Albion’s Seed” by David Hackett Fischer: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0195069056

    Thank you for the links above, which I shall read with interest. Many an enjoyable (if not necessarily profitable) hour of timesuck can be had by looking at cultural geographical subdivisions, and some YouTubers do it frequently, for example

    * whatifalthist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eem7zszAhCs , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97fAv6oEvE

    Or you can just look at the maps

    * https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cultural+subdivisions+of+the+united+states&tbm=isch

    I shall file these backstage for future reference
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    UK armed forces have completed a complex and rapid evacuation of British diplomats and their families from Sudan, amid a significant escalation in violence and threats to embassy staff.

    I pay tribute to the commitment of our diplomats and bravery of the military personnel who carried out this difficult operation.

    We are continuing to pursue every avenue to end the bloodshed in Sudan and ensure the safety of British nationals remaining in the country.

    I urge the parties to lay down their arms and implement an immediate humanitarian ceasefire to ensure civilians can leave conflict zones.


    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1650111786765504514
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    viewcode said:

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    Good grief, really? Is it a proper/reproduction prop or something they built themselves?
    Now that I can‘t remember. I think it’s a full size replica prop.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092

    viewcode said:

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    Good grief, really? Is it a proper/reproduction prop or something they built themselves?
    I own a fair sized trebuchet
    On any other forum that would be an exaggeration. On this one it's possibly true... :D
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    On reflection, Abbot’s letter - and the weird apology - is so bonkers I can believe she has a mental health issue. However, she also has a history of stupidity, offensive crassness - “Mao was OK” - and outright race baiting so: Whatever, tough shit
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Protestors at the Formula E it looked like - two folk on the grid just seconds before the race went live.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
    The whole point of the debt limit, is the paralysis it leads to. It makes the lawmakers question and debate every single aspect of government spending, looking at what’s necessary and what’s not.
    Except that is not what happens at all. That's why they get shutdowns rather than it forcing them to reach decisions to avoid it, because politics demands it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    She owns a Dalek. Well a prop Dalek. Not a real one. That would be silly. Obvs.
    I certain regular on here (who I will not name, they can out themselves!) owns a Dalek that sits in their living room.
    Good grief, really? Is it a proper/reproduction prop or something they built themselves?
    Now that I can‘t remember. I think it’s a full size replica prop.
    If needed, I will go and EXTERMINATE it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408
    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.
  • This is Mont Dol. I’ve taken a little detour to see it; apparently it’s very similar to Mont Saint Michel, other than being inland and not having a monastery

    I could climb up, but I’m knackered and want to get to Dol (where I’ve booked a studio apartment for the night) so I can have a big early dinner, a bottle of wine, and get to bed. I want to set off at seven tomorrow


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    UK armed forces have completed a complex and rapid evacuation of British diplomats and their families from Sudan, amid a significant escalation in violence and threats to embassy staff.

    I pay tribute to the commitment of our diplomats and bravery of the military personnel who carried out this difficult operation.

    We are continuing to pursue every avenue to end the bloodshed in Sudan and ensure the safety of British nationals remaining in the country.

    I urge the parties to lay down their arms and implement an immediate humanitarian ceasefire to ensure civilians can leave conflict zones.


    https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1650111786765504514

    Slightly more effective than General Wolseley riding to the rescue of Gordon then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    ydoethur said:

    Gloucestershire are now going to lose this match, as I've put the livestream from New Road on for ten minutes.

    Edit - FFS, I'd literally just left the room to refill my glass of water and a wicket falls!

    Don’t leave the room then.

    They must like away games, they actually get to play a match unlike home games.
    You just had to open your mouth, didn't you?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Diane Abott, there’s a big issue in the US with Dianne Feinstein, who’s an 89-year-old Senator from California. She’s clearly lost her marbles, and has been absent for several weeks now.

    Her absence means that the Judiciary Committee on which she sits, and the Senate as a whole, no longer have Democrat majorities, and are unable to do anything as a result. There’s also the missing Senator John Fetterman, who’s clearly recovering from a mental illness. The next few weeks in US politics are going to be dominated by discussions on raising the debt limit, and Biden potentially has no majority in either House to do so.

    The concept of the debt limit is brilliant though, and should be discussed in more countries.

    Given the political paralysis it seems to lead to, including breakdown of governance, it doesn't seem to be brilliant in practice.
    The whole point of the debt limit, is the paralysis it leads to. It makes the lawmakers question and debate every single aspect of government spending, looking at what’s necessary and what’s not.
    Again its just ideology over practicality. It simply results in pork barrel politics of the worst kind, not the type of economics you are looking for.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,680
    Leon said:

    On reflection, Abbot’s letter - and the weird apology - is so bonkers I can believe she has a mental health issue. However, she also has a history of stupidity, offensive crassness - “Mao was OK” - and outright race baiting so: Whatever, tough shit

    The letter was explicitly in response to these recent article comparing relative experience of Racism.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    dixiedean said:

    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.

    Spurs always choke. Its 4 nil now
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408
    dixiedean said:

    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.

    4-0 after 19.
    Gonna be wild in Toon the neet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408
    edited April 2023
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.

    4-0 after 19.
    Gonna be wild in Toon the neet.
    5 nil after 20...
    Surprised they managed to find their way to the ground tbh.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904

    DougSeal said:

    I don’t think Diane Abbott is very well. I really don’t.

    She'll be 70 next year. That doesn't automatically mean that she's past it, but it's not shameful if her age is limiting her ability to think sharply.

    Maybe "standing down for health reasons" is the kindest (and not wholly untrue) way out for everyone.
    Diane Abbott will be 70 later this year, and possibly 71 by the election if Rishi hangs on till autumn.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.

    4-0 after 19.
    Gonna be wild in Toon the neet.
    5 nil after 20...
    Hilarious
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Example number 1000 that Keir Starmer takes anti-Semitism seriously
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,460
    Lol Spurs
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Spurs will be looking to organise a disruptive protest.
    But they don't look capable.
    3-0 after 8 minutes.

    4-0 after 19.
    Gonna be wild in Toon the neet.
    5 nil after 20...
    Surprised they managed to find their way to the ground tbh.
    Harsh if you bought Newcastle Total Goal Mins.....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Dialup said:

    Example number 1000 that Keir Starmer takes anti-Semitism seriously

    If you mean he is terrified that Labour will be tagged with all the shit of recent years then yes. I don't believe for a second that it's all been cleaned up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,680
    edited April 2023

    Lol Spurs

    I would laugh more at Spurs were Newcastle away not one of our remaing fixtures.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Foxy said:

    Lol Spurs

    I would laugh more at Spurs were Newcastle away not one of our remaing fixtures.
    Not a good day to laugh at an historically Jewish club. Ask Diane Abbott.
  • I see Spurs have Hibs-ed it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842
    Leon said:

    On reflection, Abbot’s letter - and the weird apology - is so bonkers I can believe she has a mental health issue. However, she also has a history of stupidity, offensive crassness - “Mao was OK” - and outright race baiting so: Whatever, tough shit

    I have resisted the temptation to pile on for exactly that reason. This woman is unwell and has been for a while.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Dianne Abbott is clearly very unwell, you can see the sad fall in her ability to speak clearly over the last few years.

    The abuse and racism she has experienced, has contributed to that.

    She should for own health and wellbeing, stand down as an MP.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,619
    Off-topic: a rant, if I may.

    A vague acquaintance is running the London Marathon today. I've sponsored her, and wondered how she was doing, so went to the London Marathon website.

    To see how someone is doing, you need to download an app; the data is not available on the website. There's no way I'm going to download an app just for that; and I cannot see a valid reason why the data could not be on a website.

    (This is where someone points out that the data is indeed available on a website...)
This discussion has been closed.