Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
I got 1st and 3rd from my three horses put up earlier, well done to anyone who followed. Saor Alba gu Brath
Yes, well done Malc.
I’d seen Corach Rambler tipped in other places, but your post undoubtedly influenced my betting.
Fairly small stakes compared to usual, for me (I bet rarely, but with max stakes, only after a hell of a lot of research and analysis, once I’ve convinced myself a bet is +EV)
GN betting is just a bit of fun for me.
On the protests, I’m torn.
Thing is, horses basically only exist because of their utility to humans over the last 10,000+ years.
But yeah, the horse racing business is clearly cruel.
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Put bluntly, if you enjoy horse racing you have to be honest and admit you don’t care about the horses’a welfare. A legitimate position to take, just not one I can endorse.
The cow that donated my steak later will have been better treated in life.
Your arse in parsley, absolute nutjob
Discomforting any animal for any reason other than to destroy pests or to eat it (in both of which cases I kill them quickly and efficiently and expect others to do the same) is just indefensible.
So no pets at all then. Fair enough.
I think pets are wonderful, but as you say, there's a moral dilemma. For me it boils down to not inflicting casual, unnecessary cruelty. We're all going to see that differently, I don't like the idea of horses raced to death. I know it's not intentional, that for the most part they will have had good lives, but them dying as sport crosses a line for me. Dairy farming intensive pork/beef/lamb and anything to do with poultry is vile, but we need food and anyone sane accepts that, even if I'd like to see things done differently.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
Twice. When he thought the second was coming to him.
They will have to ban whipping, I suspect (and I am speaking as a neutral!)
It just looks too bad. These days. And surely if they ban the whip for everyone then everyone is equal, so what's the point in allowing it?
The fences are also an issue
I give it 5-10 years before this kind of racing is banned forever
The whip is needed in NH as a correcting tool at fences, use for "encouragement" could be banned though
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
Twice. When he thought the second was coming to him.
They will have to ban whipping, I suspect (and I am speaking as a neutral!)
It just looks too bad. These days. And surely if they ban the whip for everyone then everyone is equal, so what's the point in allowing it?
The fences are also an issue
I give it 5-10 years before this kind of racing is banned forever
The whip is needed in NH as a correcting tool at fences, use for "encouragement" could be banned though
As someone who has not thought about this issue hardly ever, and has not seen a race for a decade, to me it suddenly looks terminal for NH racing. Attitudes have changed, if my reaction is anything to go by (and as I say I am absolutely fine with hunting, if it has a purpose)
That said I do now dimly recall as a child being quite uneasy when I learned that fallen horses, at the National, often ended up shot. But all the grown ups around me seemed to think it was fine, so I went along with it. As you do
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
Peyer Cardwell on talttv now saying we are being lied to and Ukraine is losing the war. And this from Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson: "The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing"
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
Getting rid of meat to eat would be AMAZING for wildlife. I say this due to have a steak shortly
International cricket chiefs have lifted a ban on teams wearing shirts carrying the logos of gambling companies in Test and one-day matches.
The restrictions will still be maintained for competitions organised by the International Cricket Council (ICC), such as the World Cup, but have been removed for bilateral series.
The easing of the restrictions is seen as controversial by many in the game given concerns around the threat of spot-fixing as well as welfare issues around gambling.
England teams will not be allowed to wear betting logos on shirts or equipment however, as the ECB’s anti-corruption code not only prohibits “participants” from betting on matches but also from “enticing or encouraging any other party to enter into a bet in relation to . . . any other match or competition”.
Under the ECB’s general conduct regulations, participants include players, coaches, volunteers, club officials, administrators and match officials. It is, however, unclear what the situation would be if an opponent of England’s chose to wear betting logos for international matches in England.
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I'm not sure I can condone cruelty in sport from a philosophical viewpoint by saying if we don't do it the animals would never have existed in the first place.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
Er what? I find horse racing incredibly boring and hardly ever watch it. Dunno about any rules. That's the first race I've watched, of any kind, in a decade maybe. When I was a kid/teen I would always watch the National but only coz everyone would have a bet. Then I went to uni and that stopped
They were using whips, is all I could see, and to my casual eye it suddenly looked... BAD
As I said you were influenced by wokeism as espoused by the protesters.
Jockeys are only allowed to hit their horses, with heavily padded "whips", seven times over the course of the race. So you only noticed it because you were looking for issues.
Not too say that is a bad thing.
I personally don't file "awareness of animal welfare" under Wokery
International cricket chiefs have lifted a ban on teams wearing shirts carrying the logos of gambling companies in Test and one-day matches.
The restrictions will still be maintained for competitions organised by the International Cricket Council (ICC), such as the World Cup, but have been removed for bilateral series.
The easing of the restrictions is seen as controversial by many in the game given concerns around the threat of spot-fixing as well as welfare issues around gambling.
England teams will not be allowed to wear betting logos on shirts or equipment however, as the ECB’s anti-corruption code not only prohibits “participants” from betting on matches but also from “enticing or encouraging any other party to enter into a bet in relation to . . . any other match or competition”.
Under the ECB’s general conduct regulations, participants include players, coaches, volunteers, club officials, administrators and match officials. It is, however, unclear what the situation would be if an opponent of England’s chose to wear betting logos for international matches in England.
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I rather enjoy horseriding, and the faster and more risky it is the better, in my experience. And the risk is shared, sure I might fall off and crack my skull, but in urging the horse to go faster, I am also risking the horse's life and limb. So I'd be a hypocrite if I was overly critical of racing. My observation is more sociopolitical, I sense that this form of the sport is nearing its end
Two of the most exciting experiences of my life were on horseback. One was galloping a mustang at full pelt down Monument Valley, Arizona, another was riding a horse down lanes and bridlepaths in County Clare - the horse was young and exuberant and wanted to go as fast as possible. So we did. Amazing fun. But probably very stupid and terrifically dangerous for steed and rider
I'm not sure I was wearing a hat/helmet on either occasion. I think not, in fact
I also did a drunken pub crawl on horseback in Cornwall one long sunny afternoon......
My wife and I have long since been against the grand national for its cruelty to the horses, not just by endangering their lives but the use of the whip
However, we do not see a problem with flat racing as long as the whip is not used to hurt the horse
I wondered during the race, is betting allowed while the race is in progress as I have no knowledge of betting
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I'm not sure I can condone cruelty in sport from a philosophical viewpoint by saying if we don't do it the animals would never have existed in the first place.
The anti fox hunting lobby tried that arguement.
We have been re-homing ex racing greyhounds as pets for 30 years from the GRT, but It wouldn't be the end of the world to us if greyhound racing died out and consequently much fewer greyhounds in the world as a result.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
Er what? I find horse racing incredibly boring and hardly ever watch it. Dunno about any rules. That's the first race I've watched, of any kind, in a decade maybe. When I was a kid/teen I would always watch the National but only coz everyone would have a bet. Then I went to uni and that stopped
They were using whips, is all I could see, and to my casual eye it suddenly looked... BAD
As I said you were influenced by wokeism as espoused by the protesters.
Jockeys are only allowed to hit their horses, with heavily padded "whips", seven times over the course of the race. So you only noticed it because you were looking for issues.
Not too say that is a bad thing.
I personally don't file "awareness of animal welfare" under Wokery
It’s an expansive term.
Can mean any old shit you like. Or don’t.
As I have said before, Woke is like porn. The definition will vary from person to person, often quite wildly. But nonetheless it exists and "you know it when you see it"
Peyer Cardwell on talttv now saying we are being lied to and Ukraine is losing the war. And this from Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson: "The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing"
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
Er what? I find horse racing incredibly boring and hardly ever watch it. Dunno about any rules. That's the first race I've watched, of any kind, in a decade maybe. When I was a kid/teen I would always watch the National but only coz everyone would have a bet. Then I went to uni and that stopped
They were using whips, is all I could see, and to my casual eye it suddenly looked... BAD
As I said you were influenced by wokeism as espoused by the protesters.
Jockeys are only allowed to hit their horses, with heavily padded "whips", seven times over the course of the race. So you only noticed it because you were looking for issues.
Not too say that is a bad thing.
I personally don't file "awareness of animal welfare" under Wokery
It’s an expansive term.
Can mean any old shit you like. Or don’t.
As I have said before, Woke is like porn. The definition will vary from person to person, often quite wildly. But nonetheless it exists and "you know it when you see it"
that sounds like "woke means everything you don't like"
My wife and I have long since been against the grand national for its cruelty to the horses, not just by endangering their lives but the use of the whip
However, we do not see a problem with flat racing as long as the whip is not used to hurt the horse
I wondered during the race, is betting allowed while the race is in progress as I have no knowledge of betting
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
To put it in perspective I felt more guilty than the time I think I killed my Prep School head of geography - he was also the head hockey coach and I was a goalkeeper. He was warming me up for a match smacking balls at me at I wellied one back at him off my foot. Hit him plum in the chest and he collapsed - eventually got up and carried on. He died from a heart attack that night and to make things worse I had to sing in the choir at his funeral.
My wife and I have long since been against the grand national for its cruelty to the horses, not just by endangering their lives but the use of the whip
However, we do not see a problem with flat racing as long as the whip is not used to hurt the horse
I wondered during the race, is betting allowed while the race is in progress as I have no knowledge of betting
I think it is. I'm sure the odds vary in the race, could be wrong.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
My wife and I have long since been against the grand national for its cruelty to the horses, not just by endangering their lives but the use of the whip
However, we do not see a problem with flat racing as long as the whip is not used to hurt the horse
I wondered during the race, is betting allowed while the race is in progress as I have no knowledge of betting
According to "The Sting" answer is No?
These days you can bet in-running on horseracing and most other sports via Betfair or some bookmakers.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
wow, were you a jockey or was it in the army?
sorry, i missed your earlier comment about being a jockey
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
wow, were you a jockey or was it in the army?
I’m 6 foot 2 and 16 stone so my jockey dreams are just dreams - was on a long ride through Rajasthan.
On topic: In the US, I can not think of a single election rule change that does not favor one party or the other. For instance, making it easier for those in the military to vote usually helps Republicans.
Lowering the voting age helped Democrats, and so on.
(But, over time, the effects of a rule can change. Absentee ballots (postal votes in your terms) used to heavily favor Republicans, because so many were cast by traveling businessmen. Now, that is no longer true.)
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I'm not sure I can condone cruelty in sport from a philosophical viewpoint by saying if we don't do it the animals would never have existed in the first place.
The anti fox hunting lobby tried that arguement.
Who's to say it isn't cruel to have a cockapoo sitting on your sofa and taken round the park twice a day.
We use animals for our pleasure just about everywhere and all animals.
We all just pick our point on the continuum as to what we believe is ok or not ok.
wrt foxhunting (we're not going there this evening so please have the last word) the point is that foxhunting is not cruel and the foxes die anyway.
Peyer Cardwell on talttv now saying we are being lied to and Ukraine is losing the war. And this from Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson: "The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing"
For reference in future weeks start it's best to start by replying to a few other comments instead of talking about Ukraine when we are talking about other things - the year's big (but pointless for betting) horse race and random bits of ancient history.
We have lost interest in the SMO though. This time last year was all breathless analysis of truck tyres and furious googling of desant tactics. Now it's just sporadic and half-hearted C&P of Ukrainian psyop tweets.
At the moment there isn't much happening. The Russians clearly can't advance and the Ukrainians haven't, maybe because they can't, maybe because they're waiting on something (or both). The war therefore is less interesting in a news sense.
If the Ukrainians and the Russians are both stuck, we have a stalemate. We don't know where that would lead - whether a negotiated peace could be managed (seems unlikely, bluntly) that would allow the lifting of sanctions, or whether sanctions will persist and eventually Russia will suffer enough to offer meaningful concessions. Or, indeed, whether changes of government in the West might weaken support for Ukraine and allow Russia to consolidate their hold on the east bank.
There isn't really a lot to say until we have more data.
Peyer Cardwell on talttv now saying we are being lied to and Ukraine is losing the war. And this from Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson: "The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing"
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I'm not sure I can condone cruelty in sport from a philosophical viewpoint by saying if we don't do it the animals would never have existed in the first place.
The anti fox hunting lobby tried that arguement.
Who's to say it isn't cruel to have a cockapoo sitting on your sofa and taken round the park twice a day.
We use animals for our pleasure just about everywhere and all animals.
We all just pick our point on the continuum as to what we believe is ok or not ok.
wrt foxhunting (we're not going there this evening so please have the last word) the point is that foxhunting is not cruel and the foxes die anyway.
My last word is we all die anyway, humans, horses, foxes, et al. It's the way we go that is important.
I think pets are wonderful, but as you say, there's a moral dilemma. For me it boils down to not inflicting casual, unnecessary cruelty. We're all going to see that differently, I don't like the idea of horses raced to death. I know it's not intentional, that for the most part they will have had good lives, but them dying as sport crosses a line for me. Dairy farming intensive pork/beef/lamb and anything to do with poultry is vile, but we need food and anyone sane accepts that, even if I'd like to see things done differently.
A perfectly valid view. You have drawn a line at meat to eat is ok, animals for sport is not. Vegans draw the line further along, as do I but in a different direction to the vegans, obvs.
I think the trend in society today is towards the vegans.
It's up to us to decide whether we will tolerate racing. Not PB, more's the pity, but the public.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
You seem weirdly conflicted on this issue. That's not a taunt, merely an observation. You obviously care about it, but one minute it sounds like you want to ban it, and the next you want to defend it. Confusing!
Ha! I am interested in the idea of using animals for sport and how it develops from here in society. I have participated in this sport and currently use horses for my pleasure*.
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
I'm not sure I can condone cruelty in sport from a philosophical viewpoint by saying if we don't do it the animals would never have existed in the first place.
The anti fox hunting lobby tried that arguement.
Who's to say it isn't cruel to have a cockapoo sitting on your sofa and taken round the park twice a day.
We use animals for our pleasure just about everywhere and all animals.
We all just pick our point on the continuum as to what we believe is ok or not ok.
wrt foxhunting (we're not going there this evening so please have the last word) the point is that foxhunting is not cruel and the foxes die anyway.
My last word is we all die anyway, humans, horses, foxes, et al. It's the way we go that is important.
There is an argument which says that it's better for a horse to die having lead a hugely pampered life, wanting for nothing (horses want warmth and food) and then break their necks at the open ditch, than as a shetland pony stuck in a muddy field all year. Same for humans, for that matter.
A Hollywood friend has suggested far from being excluded from the new Harry Potter series, JK Rowling is going to have a very large influence on the setting, casting and ensuring that the show runners don't stray too far from the original plot. HBO are said to be comfortable with it after their success with The Last Of Us which followed the same template with Neil Druckmann taking the a lead role in bringing the series to life.
2025 seems like the the date when the first season will be released and the main roles will be filled by the end of this year with British actors and actresses being preferred as they were for the movies. There was a rumour that WB wanted to shift the setting to a US high school rather than wizard Eton and that's what was holding up the announcement because Rowling was adamant that any new series would have to stick to the original story or not be done at all.
It was an interesting lunch!
It was a surprising announcement, given all the recent controversies around the author. I guess that either HBO have been talking to Rowling for years to get this project off the ground, or they judge that the controversy will pass, and if they don’t do it now then someone else will.
The Budweiser boycott in the States, is an indication that perhaps the tide is starting to turn on companies bending over backwards to support the woke activism of their younger employees.
A pedant notes: JKR has almost certainly never said anything that anyonr but a fringe lunatic would find controversial. She's onoy controversial because fringe lunatics have declared her so
This all depends on what is meant. In parts of my family the view I hold that the later Harry Potter books are a tiny bit prolix and dull are controversial to the point of bring incendiary.
She is however entirely redeemed in my eyes both by being unafraid to have normal views, and helping about 500 million people to love reading.
It shows that Australian journalists (like our own) think that Twittermobs are a sample of public opinion, rather than a rancid, fetid, stinking distortion of it.
A friend is the editor of a weekly news magazine, and is rarely off that awful app. He is about the most IT-illiterate person I've met, but makes an exception for Twatter.
We already knew she was a liar, but this is silly. Disapproval for the police raiding a pub run by a bloke who posts openly racist comments because the customers like racist dolls. Because the racists are Tory voters and must be pandered to. Because what's wrong with these golly wog dolls anyway? I'm not racist anyway, had that Frank Bruno in the back of my cab once guvnor...
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
How desperate were Chelski to rehire Fwank Lampard? Not going very well is it - and its hardly a surprise...
Not a Chelsea fan but why is he “Fwank” lampard?
Delete the F. He was utter wank as a manager the first time around. Not much better as a player though seems to get venerated for some reason.
The Americans fired him when they took over because useless. How has become anything less of a wanker now they have brought him back? Chelsea are playing *horrendously*. Is funny though, its almost as if no decent manager wants the job.
Another year, another set of evidence for banning this cruel sport.
It's the whipping as much as the fences. Hmmm
Okay I'm sure you have been following it closely but to remind you the whip rules have changed many times and were changed a short while ago. How many times did you see the jocks hit their horses on the run in. And with what kind of whip.
How many times during the course of the whole race.
the jockey was whipping the horse as it was in the home straight. Disgusting.
Unlikely I'll have to take a look at it again. It's a heavily padded stick. And he could only use it seven times. So get over yourself a bit.
No, @Daveyboy1961 is right. There was a jockey whipping a horse (the winner, I think?) in the home straight. That's where I noticed it
yes, i thought i didn't dream it...
Ok, from my experience of riding - competing in cross country, riding in various countries in all sorts of conditions including riding into the middle of a lion hunt - only a sadist uses the whip much. You “show” the whip a lot and you brush it but you very very rarely hit the horse hard enough with a whip that will actually hurt them if actually ever.
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Yes and no. Horses have a fantastic time, most of them, race horses in particular. But we are using them for our entertainment. And they die occasionally as a result.
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
I always worked on the basis that every horse I ever rode was trying to kill me - they tried and nearly succeeded once or twice. I sadly had a horse die under me on a sand dune in India. I had told the grooms that morning that she didn’t feel right and they insisted no problem and then she keeled over after ten days of me on her. Managed to get off before she rolled onto me but I was v angry that they refused to listen that morning.
To put it in perspective I felt more guilty than the time I think I killed my Prep School head of geography - he was also the head hockey coach and I was a goalkeeper. He was warming me up for a match smacking balls at me at I wellied one back at him off my foot. Hit him plum in the chest and he collapsed - eventually got up and carried on. He died from a heart attack that night and to make things worse I had to sing in the choir at his funeral.
Commotio Cordis is a thing.
Not your fault, but still a load to carry nevertheless. Sympathies.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Not going to look for pictures on Twitter, but it was pretty clear from the live TV that there was a dead horse at the first fence. The screens were already going up as the field jumped the second. @TOPPING called it on here.
I wonder if there's any truth to the claim that failing to get their accounts audited in time will attract an Electoral Commission fine heavy enough to finish the party off?
Not that this will make a great deal of difference to anything. The politicians and the more committed members will simply found a debt-free clone and carry on regardless.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Maybe. It's great that you care about animals so deeply.
I wonder if there's any truth to the claim that failing to get their accounts audited in time will attract an Electoral Commission fine heavy enough to finish the party off?
Not that this will make a great deal of difference to anything. The politicians and the more committed members will simply found a debt-free clone and carry on regardless.
Surely even if SNP goes bust, the MPs in the hated “Westminster” will affiliate with a new organisation, and the £1m/year of Short Money will head their way instead?
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Maybe. It's great that you care about animals so deeply.
All this time, I never realised. Thanks heavens for MTG.
If you believe that today’s “climate change” is caused by too much carbon, you have been fooled.
We live on a spinning planet that rotates around a much bigger sun along with other planets and heavenly bodies rotating around the sun that all create gravitational pull on one another while our galaxy rotates and travels through the universe.
Considering all of that, yes our climate will change, and it’s totally normal!
There is no amount of taxes or carbon reduction that will stop or tame weather events or climate change.
But there are some very powerful people that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams convincing many that carbon is the enemy and that if humans sacrifice enough energy producing things we can actually control the climate.
Don’t fall for the scam, fossil fuels are natural and amazing. They produce an abundance of energy that we all need to survive along with more products than you can possibly imagine. https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1647251668373839878
Q: Will economy improve or get worse over the next 12 months?
After Autumn Statement: Improve 7 Get worse 68
Now: Improve 17 Get worse 52
So IF in 12 months time people feel the economy has improved then lots of people are going to be surprised on the upside- which may (or may not!) feed into voting intention.
Sunak has already saved the Conservatives from catastrophe.
The really interesting question is how much better they'd be doing if Truss had never been elected, and he'd won the original contest.
Q: Will economy improve or get worse over the next 12 months?
After Autumn Statement: Improve 7 Get worse 68
Now: Improve 17 Get worse 52
So IF in 12 months time people feel the economy has improved then lots of people are going to be surprised on the upside- which may (or may not!) feed into voting intention.
Sunak has already saved the Conservatives from catastrophe.
The really interesting question is how much better they'd be doing if Truss had never been elected, and he'd won the original contest.
There's no part of this that isn't horseshit.
Mate, he's insane. He probably really believes it.
I mean Rishi has no charisma, he is anti-charisma personified. But if, big if, he is doing an ok job at running the country then why change dull technocrats.
Jess Phillips, meanwhile, would rip the premiership away from Rishi and give us all a great ride while she did so. No idea of her politics, that said.
The word 'ok' is doing some very heavy lifting there.
Peyer Cardwell on talttv now saying we are being lied to and Ukraine is losing the war. And this from Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson: "The second thing we learned from these slides is that despite direct U.S. involvement, Ukraine is losing the war. Seven Ukrainians are being killed for every Russian. Ukrainian air defenses have been utterly degraded. Ukraine is losing"
All this time, I never realised. Thanks heavens for MTG.
If you believe that today’s “climate change” is caused by too much carbon, you have been fooled.
We live on a spinning planet that rotates around a much bigger sun along with other planets and heavenly bodies rotating around the sun that all create gravitational pull on one another while our galaxy rotates and travels through the universe.
Considering all of that, yes our climate will change, and it’s totally normal!
There is no amount of taxes or carbon reduction that will stop or tame weather events or climate change.
But there are some very powerful people that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams convincing many that carbon is the enemy and that if humans sacrifice enough energy producing things we can actually control the climate.
Don’t fall for the scam, fossil fuels are natural and amazing. They produce an abundance of energy that we all need to survive along with more products than you can possibly imagine. https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1647251668373839878
She's completely right. Temperature change is well within historical norms.
Perhaps PB could lend helping hand, by taking that camper-van off their hands, then converting it into (or trading it for) a fully-equipped, state-of-the-art . . . wait for it . . .
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
Perhaps PB could lend helping hand, by taking that camper-van off their hands, then converting it into (or trading it for) a fully-equipped, state-of-the-art . . . wait for it . . .
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
I read that as TIME-TRAVELLING TEA THEATRE. Which would be interesting.
The thing about the £600k, the motorhome, Murrell's arrest, the lack of auditors - the huge crisis engulfing the SNP & the Scot gov - is it is entirely made in Scotland, by the SNP. Grievance politics, blaming Westminster won't work. Chickens at long last coming home to roost.
I think pets are wonderful, but as you say, there's a moral dilemma. For me it boils down to not inflicting casual, unnecessary cruelty. We're all going to see that differently, I don't like the idea of horses raced to death. I know it's not intentional, that for the most part they will have had good lives, but them dying as sport crosses a line for me. Dairy farming intensive pork/beef/lamb and anything to do with poultry is vile, but we need food and anyone sane accepts that, even if I'd like to see things done differently.
A perfectly valid view. You have drawn a line at meat to eat is ok, animals for sport is not. Vegans draw the line further along, as do I but in a different direction to the vegans, obvs.
I think the trend in society today is towards the vegans.
Not really.
The vast majority of vegans revert, the latest big name being Bear Grylls.
The Ministry of Defence is being asked to help provide a replacement ferry service for a lifeline route in the Highlands. Both the main Corran Ferry vessel and a relief boat are out of action for repairs, likely to take several weeks. SNP MP Ian Blackford said "agreement in principle"had been reached for military help on the route, which is operated by Highland Council.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Not at all. A coordinated campaign by extremists.
Not only did that make today's race more dangerous but such comments are made in utter ignorance of the facts, like the fact that horses are half a ton of weight on four spindly legs and can (and do) suffer fatal accidents just living their day to day lives in fields in the wild.
All this time, I never realised. Thanks heavens for MTG.
If you believe that today’s “climate change” is caused by too much carbon, you have been fooled.
We live on a spinning planet that rotates around a much bigger sun along with other planets and heavenly bodies rotating around the sun that all create gravitational pull on one another while our galaxy rotates and travels through the universe.
Considering all of that, yes our climate will change, and it’s totally normal!
There is no amount of taxes or carbon reduction that will stop or tame weather events or climate change.
But there are some very powerful people that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams convincing many that carbon is the enemy and that if humans sacrifice enough energy producing things we can actually control the climate.
Don’t fall for the scam, fossil fuels are natural and amazing. They produce an abundance of energy that we all need to survive along with more products than you can possibly imagine. https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1647251668373839878
She's completely right. Temperature change is well within historical norms.
Good for you! Don't let these elitists tell you that your scientific opinion isn't as good as anyone else's.
I think pets are wonderful, but as you say, there's a moral dilemma. For me it boils down to not inflicting casual, unnecessary cruelty. We're all going to see that differently, I don't like the idea of horses raced to death. I know it's not intentional, that for the most part they will have had good lives, but them dying as sport crosses a line for me. Dairy farming intensive pork/beef/lamb and anything to do with poultry is vile, but we need food and anyone sane accepts that, even if I'd like to see things done differently.
A perfectly valid view. You have drawn a line at meat to eat is ok, animals for sport is not. Vegans draw the line further along, as do I but in a different direction to the vegans, obvs.
I think the trend in society today is towards the vegans.
Not really.
The vast majority of vegans revert, the latest big name being Bear Grylls.
Perhaps PB could lend helping hand, by taking that camper-van off their hands, then converting it into (or trading it for) a fully-equipped, state-of-the-art . . . wait for it . . .
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
In the right hands a decent movie or series about Trump could be fantastic. But let’s give it a while.
Q: Will economy improve or get worse over the next 12 months?
After Autumn Statement: Improve 7 Get worse 68
Now: Improve 17 Get worse 52
So IF in 12 months time people feel the economy has improved then lots of people are going to be surprised on the upside- which may (or may not!) feed into voting intention.
Sunak has already saved the Conservatives from catastrophe.
The really interesting question is how much better they'd be doing if Truss had never been elected, and he'd won the original contest.
There's no part of this that isn't horseshit.
You seem to think that Sunak is Blair in disguise. Some sort of Davos conspiracy.
I don't know what rabbit hole you've disappeared down to reach this conclusion, but that's the real horseshit.
As for climate change, like Margaret Thatcher I understand and recognise the science behind it, but don't share the left-wing solutions to the problems.
I spent a summer as a teenager working at a racing stables. I started out just working in the stables (ie shit shoveling), but then got let out riding on the gallops on a couple of the older sprinters (was flat racing, I've deliberately been over a jump twice on a horse, twice more accidentally)
I quite often had to just ride a horse to the gallops and a different one back so a proper rider could ride it on the gallops. This means that I've ridden a Group 1 winner several times; just walking back from the gallops, but that's still riding!
When you shovel a horse's shit, groom it and ride it, you build a relationship with it. In my experience, the only way to make that relationship work is to be as gentle as you possibly can be around the horse
Right up until the horse knows it's going to run. Then you have take control and hold it back until it's time to sprint for the finish
The horses enjoy nothing more than to race. They see open grass and want to run as fast as they can
And the stable lads and lasses I've known working in racing live for and love 'their' horses - the horses are their boss
I'm sure there's some cruelty, there is in almost any human endeavour. But the majority of the interaction between human and horse in racing is loving and fun
Not that this will make a great deal of difference to anything. The politicians and the more committed members will simply found a debt-free clone and carry on regardless.
The Ministry of Defence is being asked to help provide a replacement ferry service for a lifeline route in the Highlands. Both the main Corran Ferry vessel and a relief boat are out of action for repairs, likely to take several weeks. SNP MP Ian Blackford said "agreement in principle"had been reached for military help on the route, which is operated by Highland Council.
IIRC one of the ferries between Rock and Padstow in Cornwall is a ex-military landing craft.
Anything designed by Roland Baker is awesome. In WWII he insisted that all dock ships and landing craft should float and be stable even if they were flooded by damage.
Perhaps PB could lend helping hand, by taking that camper-van off their hands, then converting it into (or trading it for) a fully-equipped, state-of-the-art . . . wait for it . . .
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
Not that this will make a great deal of difference to anything. The politicians and the more committed members will simply found a debt-free clone and carry on regardless.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Broadly speaking there are two ways that [jump] racing might come to an end.
The first would be gradually and organically, as people turned away, put off by perceptions of cruelty, money drained away, and the sport shrank gradually. The second would be due to external intervention to restrict and outlaw the sport, perhaps by degrees and restrictions over time.
I don't see any sign of either of these happening at all.
I spent a summer as a teenager working at a racing stables. I started out just working in the stables (ie shit shoveling), but then got let out riding on the gallops on a couple of the older sprinters (was flat racing, I've deliberately been over a jump twice on a horse, twice more accidentally)
I quite often had to just ride a horse to the gallops and a different one back so a proper rider could ride it on the gallops. This means that I've ridden a Group 1 winner several times; just walking back from the gallops, but that's still riding!
When you shovel a horse's shit, groom it and ride it, you build a relationship with it. In my experience, the only way to make that relationship work is to be as gentle as you possibly can be around the horse
Right up until the horse knows it's going to run. Then you have take control and hold it back until it's time to sprint for the finish
The horses enjoy nothing more than to race. They see open grass and want to run as fast as they can
And the stable lads and lasses I've known working in racing live for and love 'their' horses - the horses are their boss
I'm sure there's some cruelty, there is in almost any human endeavour. But the majority of the interaction between human and horse in racing is loving and fun
I agree. People love their horses. Though people at Crufts also love their dogs, and look how they inbreed them.
"The SNP is running out of cash following an exodus of 30,000 members and the unexpected legal costs linked to the continuing police investigation into the party’s funding, its ruling council has been told.
Colin Beattie, the SNP treasurer, told the national executive committee (NEC) that the party was “having difficulty in balancing the books due to the reduction in membership and donors” and that fighting a potential by-election in Rutherglen & Hamilton West would “put the party under pressure”.
He added: “We need to find money to keep the party going forward or we’ll keep cutting our tail until there’s nothing left.”"
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Not at all. A coordinated campaign by extremists.
Not only did that make today's race more dangerous but such comments are made in utter ignorance of the facts, like the fact that horses are half a ton of weight on four spindly legs and can (and do) suffer fatal accidents just living their day to day lives in fields in the wild.
So how many horses were accidentally, brutally shot today?
I spent a summer as a teenager working at a racing stables. I started out just working in the stables (ie shit shoveling), but then got let out riding on the gallops on a couple of the older sprinters (was flat racing, I've deliberately been over a jump twice on a horse, twice more accidentally)
I quite often had to just ride a horse to the gallops and a different one back so a proper rider could ride it on the gallops. This means that I've ridden a Group 1 winner several times; just walking back from the gallops, but that's still riding!
When you shovel a horse's shit, groom it and ride it, you build a relationship with it. In my experience, the only way to make that relationship work is to be as gentle as you possibly can be around the horse
Right up until the horse knows it's going to run. Then you have take control and hold it back until it's time to sprint for the finish
The horses enjoy nothing more than to race. They see open grass and want to run as fast as they can
And the stable lads and lasses I've known working in racing live for and love 'their' horses - the horses are their boss
I'm sure there's some cruelty, there is in almost any human endeavour. But the majority of the interaction between human and horse in racing is loving and fun
When you get a chance, check out Kentucky.
Think you might enjoy the Bluegrass, where the scent of horse poop wafting over miles of white fences, is part of the allure as well as ordure.
Not for nothing was Lexington one of her late majesty's favorite American destinations.
PLUS plenty of great hiking all over the Commonwealth, from The Breaks Interstate Park to Cumberland Gap to Mammoth Cave to Kentucky Lakes.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Broadly speaking there are two ways that [jump] racing might come to an end.
The first would be gradually and organically, as people turned away, put off by perceptions of cruelty, money drained away, and the sport shrank gradually. The second would be due to external intervention to restrict and outlaw the sport, perhaps by degrees and restrictions over time.
I don't see any sign of either of these happening at all.
There's probably some sort of middle ground where every year for the next 3, 4, 5 years you see the same thing today repeated at the Grand National, each time effectively artificially stimulating and propagating the same discussions repeatedly.
I wonder if today’s national marks of the beginning of the end of racing in that style. Was horrifyingly cruel, and the pictures of Hill Sixteen on Twitter are so sad
Broadly speaking there are two ways that [jump] racing might come to an end.
The first would be gradually and organically, as people turned away, put off by perceptions of cruelty, money drained away, and the sport shrank gradually. The second would be due to external intervention to restrict and outlaw the sport, perhaps by degrees and restrictions over time.
I don't see any sign of either of these happening at all.
This article has figures that show a growth in the number of horse races over time, including jump races.
The biggest risk to the sport is given as the money taking horses to races out of the country, thereby potentially creating a problem with the supply of racehorses to satisfy the demand for horseracing.
Perhaps PB could lend helping hand, by taking that camper-van off their hands, then converting it into (or trading it for) a fully-equipped, state-of-the-art . . . wait for it . . .
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
Some interesting comments on the sport of kings or what ITV kept calling "The People's Race".
It's true thoroughbred horses, while in training, enjoy a decent life - they are well fed and cared for and of course get regular exercise. Those lucky enough to go to stud or the paddocks also do very well. There is an issue round those geldings (castrated horses) and what happens to them when they can no longer race.
I'm certain some are sold abroad where welfare considerations are not as stringent as ours. There's also the issue of what happens with greyhounds once they have stopped racing.
There is a legitimate welfare issue over retired racehorses and greyhounds and whether the over-breeding of the commercial bloodstock industry creates a pool of animals who basically fall out of sight and out of mind.
The horse population is itself indicative of the demand for racing the sport or racing the gambling medium and that's a whole other debate.
In terms of the National, speed kills as in any other jump race. I don't know how HILL SIXTEEN died - heart attack or a fall at speed which broke his neck or leg. In 2001, when the race was run in a bog and just four horses completed, there were no fatalities or injuries - speed kills and that's why it's often the better horses who perish.
Oddly enough, the changes to the National in recent years have sped up the race - the easier fences and better class of runner make for a faster race - I think they ran 9 minutes 14 seconds today which is decent. I'd be looking at stiffening the fences and in the light of the reality of climate change (little bit of wokery there) there's an argument for moving the race back to say late February with a greater chance of cooler conditions and slower ground which themselves would make the race safer.
Comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/12namem/oc_greater_great_central_railway_illustrated_map/
There are very strict rules about whipping in races and no jockey is going to risk having the result taken by over whipping.
Horses are herd animals who want to run so it’s not a case of forcing them to be doing something on a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool they don’t live for.
Close Zoo’s before you stop horses racing because at least horses racing they are living a more natural existence than being kept in an artificially small area.
Right now they don't seem minded to worry. And once you look at racing you look at other animals and what we make them do.
On a 5-10 year view I can see racing changing significantly.
I’d seen Corach Rambler tipped in other places, but your post undoubtedly influenced my betting.
Fairly small stakes compared to usual, for me (I bet rarely, but with max stakes, only after a hell of a lot of research and analysis, once I’ve convinced myself a bet is +EV)
GN betting is just a bit of fun for me.
On the protests, I’m torn.
Thing is, horses basically only exist because of their utility to humans over the last 10,000+ years.
But yeah, the horse racing business is clearly cruel.
I dunno.
Doomed
And of course any jock worth his salt will take a 10-day ban if they win an important or indeed any race.
But pack animals as they are, we make them do this stuff. As do we cats and dogs and goldfish and as you say look at the zoos.
That said I do now dimly recall as a child being quite uneasy when I learned that fallen horses, at the National, often ended up shot. But all the grown ups around me seemed to think it was fine, so I went along with it. As you do
I am therefore able to see and interested in both sides of the debate. (Same with the trans thing but I have no skin in the game there and not because of a medical intervention...)
If you get rid of racing, or meat to eat, or dogs to take for walks, you have millions fewer animals. Is that what we want? Not sure.
*behave.
What’s your view on Covid vaccinations?
I say this due to have a steak shortly
The restrictions will still be maintained for competitions organised by the International Cricket Council (ICC), such as the World Cup, but have been removed for bilateral series.
The easing of the restrictions is seen as controversial by many in the game given concerns around the threat of spot-fixing as well as welfare issues around gambling.
England teams will not be allowed to wear betting logos on shirts or equipment however, as the ECB’s anti-corruption code not only prohibits “participants” from betting on matches but also from “enticing or encouraging any other party to enter into a bet in relation to . . . any other match or competition”.
Under the ECB’s general conduct regulations, participants include players, coaches, volunteers, club officials, administrators and match officials. It is, however, unclear what the situation would be if an opponent of England’s chose to wear betting logos for international matches in England.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/icc-lifts-gambling-ban-on-shirts-for-test-cricket-and-odis-zxsmpd90h
The anti fox hunting lobby tried that arguement.
Can mean any old shit you like. Or don’t.
Two of the most exciting experiences of my life were on horseback. One was galloping a mustang at full pelt down Monument Valley, Arizona, another was riding a horse down lanes and bridlepaths in County Clare - the horse was young and exuberant and wanted to go as fast as possible. So we did. Amazing fun. But probably very stupid and terrifically dangerous for steed and rider
I'm not sure I was wearing a hat/helmet on either occasion. I think not, in fact
I also did a drunken pub crawl on horseback in Cornwall one long sunny afternoon......
However, we do not see a problem with flat racing as long as the whip is not used to hurt the horse
I wondered during the race, is betting allowed while the race is in progress as I have no knowledge of betting
** sees that the puritan tendency are out in force again and decides that life is too short **
** wanders off again to look at photos of racing horses bred by Irish grandfather and other family members **
See you sometime / never / whenever.
Xx
Do they shoot failed trolls?
You bastard
UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has made a bold claim about penises amid an ongoing debate over transgender issues.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/uk-prime-minister-rishi-sunak-comments-on-transgender-debate-saying-no-women-have-penises/news-story/c831c0495fd0dceda9104713fe99a741
Lowering the voting age helped Democrats, and so on.
(But, over time, the effects of a rule can change. Absentee ballots (postal votes in your terms) used to heavily favor Republicans, because so many were cast by traveling businessmen. Now, that is no longer true.)
We use animals for our pleasure just about everywhere and all animals.
We all just pick our point on the continuum as to what we believe is ok or not ok.
wrt foxhunting (we're not going there this evening so please have the last word) the point is that foxhunting is not cruel and the foxes die anyway.
Didn’t you know ?
I think the trend in society today is towards the vegans.
She is however entirely redeemed in my eyes both by being unafraid to have normal views, and helping about 500 million people to love reading.
A friend is the editor of a weekly news magazine, and is rarely off that awful app. He is about the most IT-illiterate person I've met, but makes an exception for Twatter.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/15/braverman-rebuke-police-golly-pub-dolls-home-office
NEC was told party is “having difficulty in balancing the books due to the reduction in membership and donors”
https://twitter.com/KieranPAndrews/status/1647289031074480129?s=20
The Americans fired him when they took over because useless. How has become anything less of a wanker now they have brought him back? Chelsea are playing *horrendously*. Is funny though, its almost as if no decent manager wants the job.
https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/texas-senate-passes-bill-to-seize-control-of-elections-from-local-authorities/
Not your fault, but still a load to carry nevertheless. Sympathies.
Not that this will make a great deal of difference to anything. The politicians and the more committed members will simply found a debt-free clone and carry on regardless.
Thanks heavens for MTG.
If you believe that today’s “climate change” is caused by too much carbon, you have been fooled.
We live on a spinning planet that rotates around a much bigger sun along with other planets and heavenly bodies rotating around the sun that all create gravitational pull on one another while our galaxy rotates and travels through the universe.
Considering all of that, yes our climate will change, and it’s totally normal!
There is no amount of taxes or carbon reduction that will stop or tame weather events or climate change.
But there are some very powerful people that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams convincing many that carbon is the enemy and that if humans sacrifice enough energy producing things we can actually control the climate.
Don’t fall for the scam, fossil fuels are natural and amazing. They produce an abundance of energy that we all need to survive along with more products than you can possibly imagine.
https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1647251668373839878
POLITICALBETTING BOTTLE BUS and TRAVELING TEA-TIME THEATRE
BTW (also FYI) sorry I missed recent first (and only) night for "Boardwalk Evil Empire". (Not really.)
Note that one of Donald Trump's most spectacular episodes of landpiracy on grand scale, was in Atlantic City, famed for IT'S "Boardwalk".
Coincidence? Kismet? Karma? Conspiracy? How's about All of the Above!
https://twitter.com/lholt99/status/1647287414463905793
The vast majority of vegans revert, the latest big name being Bear Grylls.
https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1647227320246190081?s=20
The Ministry of Defence is being asked to help provide a replacement ferry service for a lifeline route in the Highlands.
Both the main Corran Ferry vessel and a relief boat are out of action for repairs, likely to take several weeks.
SNP MP Ian Blackford said "agreement in principle"had been reached for military help on the route, which is operated by Highland Council.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65285660
Not only did that make today's race more dangerous but such comments are made in utter ignorance of the facts, like the fact that horses are half a ton of weight on four spindly legs and can (and do) suffer fatal accidents just living their day to day lives in fields in the wild.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/03/japans-bear-meat-vending-machine-proves-a-surprising-success
So Braverman is just lying now.
I don't know what rabbit hole you've disappeared down to reach this conclusion, but that's the real horseshit.
As for climate change, like Margaret Thatcher I understand and recognise the science behind it, but don't share the left-wing solutions to the problems.
Only engineering and market-based ones.
I quite often had to just ride a horse to the gallops and a different one back so a proper rider could ride it on the gallops. This means that I've ridden a Group 1 winner several times; just walking back from the gallops, but that's still riding!
When you shovel a horse's shit, groom it and ride it, you build a relationship with it. In my experience, the only way to make that relationship work is to be as gentle as you possibly can be around the horse
Right up until the horse knows it's going to run. Then you have take control and hold it back until it's time to sprint for the finish
The horses enjoy nothing more than to race. They see open grass and want to run as fast as they can
And the stable lads and lasses I've known working in racing live for and love 'their' horses - the horses are their boss
I'm sure there's some cruelty, there is in almost any human endeavour. But the majority of the interaction between human and horse in racing is loving and fun
Anything designed by Roland Baker is awesome. In WWII he insisted that all dock ships and landing craft should float and be stable even if they were flooded by damage.
A rolling study of the wine regions of the funkier parts of Europe, stopping in wherever there is an election.
@NickPalmer can run the longest ever board game campaign from the back…
The first would be gradually and organically, as people turned away, put off by perceptions of cruelty, money drained away, and the sport shrank gradually. The second would be due to external intervention to restrict and outlaw the sport, perhaps by degrees and restrictions over time.
I don't see any sign of either of these happening at all.
Like one of those videos of a Russian tank charging along on its own, to Benny Hill music. Bit sad really….
This week's Opinium poll for @ObserverUK
Labour lead back at 14:
Con 28% (-2)
Lab 42% (+1)
Lib Dems 10% (nc)
Green 6% (+1)
Reform UK 8% (+1)
Rishi Sunak's approval rating has dropped back after last week's high, though still higher than before Easter, 41% approve, 29% disapprove, net is -12
Keir Starmer slips slightly but still within margin of error, he's on -3 with 33% disapproving and 30% approving
On best PM, it's no real change, Starmer leads by 1
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-is-running-out-of-cash-warns-treasurer-xwcxngtzb
"The SNP is running out of cash following an exodus of 30,000 members and the unexpected legal costs linked to the continuing police investigation into the party’s funding, its ruling council has been told.
Colin Beattie, the SNP treasurer, told the national executive committee (NEC) that the party was “having difficulty in balancing the books due to the reduction in membership and donors” and that fighting a potential by-election in Rutherglen & Hamilton West would “put the party under pressure”.
He added: “We need to find money to keep the party going forward or we’ll keep cutting our tail until there’s nothing left.”"
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1647313804240330752
Think you might enjoy the Bluegrass, where the scent of horse poop wafting over miles of white fences, is part of the allure as well as ordure.
Not for nothing was Lexington one of her late majesty's favorite American destinations.
PLUS plenty of great hiking all over the Commonwealth, from The Breaks Interstate Park to Cumberland Gap to Mammoth Cave to Kentucky Lakes.
https://www.cheltenhambettingoffers.com/news/how-many-horse-races-are-there-each-year-in-the-uk/
The biggest risk to the sport is given as the money taking horses to races out of the country, thereby potentially creating a problem with the supply of racehorses to satisfy the demand for horseracing.
BUT zero objection to a Euro tour also.
Some interesting comments on the sport of kings or what ITV kept calling "The People's Race".
It's true thoroughbred horses, while in training, enjoy a decent life - they are well fed and cared for and of course get regular exercise. Those lucky enough to go to stud or the paddocks also do very well. There is an issue round those geldings (castrated horses) and what happens to them when they can no longer race.
I'm certain some are sold abroad where welfare considerations are not as stringent as ours. There's also the issue of what happens with greyhounds once they have stopped racing.
There is a legitimate welfare issue over retired racehorses and greyhounds and whether the over-breeding of the commercial bloodstock industry creates a pool of animals who basically fall out of sight and out of mind.
The horse population is itself indicative of the demand for racing the sport or racing the gambling medium and that's a whole other debate.
In terms of the National, speed kills as in any other jump race. I don't know how HILL SIXTEEN died - heart attack or a fall at speed which broke his neck or leg. In 2001, when the race was run in a bog and just four horses completed, there were no fatalities or injuries - speed kills and that's why it's often the better horses who perish.
Oddly enough, the changes to the National in recent years have sped up the race - the easier fences and better class of runner make for a faster race - I think they ran 9 minutes 14 seconds today which is decent. I'd be looking at stiffening the fences and in the light of the reality of climate change (little bit of wokery there) there's an argument for moving the race back to say late February with a greater chance of cooler conditions and slower ground which themselves would make the race safer.